Author Topic: Pond5 will remove ability to set prices? (Read 11252 times)

alijaber · « **on:** August 30, 2019, 09:45 »

Just got this e-mail from P5:

Dear Artist,

As you know, allowing artists to set their prices is a principle we hold dearly at Pond5. We do this because it attracts a diverse set of artists and content to our community, which in turn brings in more buyers. Ultimately this freedom creates value for everyone.

As stewards of the marketplace, we have an obligation to make sure that no Artist is doing something that will negatively impact other Artists. That is why our Contributor Agreement mandates pricing minimums and also requires that non-exclusive content not be listed for a price higher than on competing websites. When non-exclusive content is priced higher on Pond5 than on competing websites it destroys the integrity of the marketplace and hurts all the other artists on the platform who abide by the community rules. Over time when buyers learn they can find the same clip for less money elsewhere (at lower artist royalties by the way), they stop coming back. We can never allow this to happen.

If you have non-exclusive video clips in your portfolio priced higher than what they are listed for on a competitive site, in the coming weeks, we will be adjusting pricing to the market rate of $79 for HD and $179 for 4K.

If your portfolio is exclusive but is not marked as such, please sign up for the Exclusivity Program. "

It looks like non exclusive contributors won't be allowed to set prices higher than 79$ and 179$

spike · « **Reply #1 on:** August 30, 2019, 09:48 »

That's not what the e-mail is saying.

But it could be a prelude.

jjneff · « **Reply #2 on:** August 30, 2019, 09:58 »

Frankly I am fine with this move as long as they increase the lower prices that are below $79 to $79!! My guess is they won't so it that is true then they are the ones responsible for lowering the pricing on the market

georgep7 · « **Reply #3 on:** August 30, 2019, 10:00 »

Nope, the lower available set of prices are $25 for HD and $50 for 4K.

alijaber · « **Reply #4 on:** August 30, 2019, 10:12 »

Quote from: jjneff on August 30, 2019, 09:58

Frankly I am fine with this move as long as they increase the lower prices that are below $79 to $79!! My guess is they won't so it that is true then they are the ones responsible for lowering the pricing on the market

I wish that too!

StockDaebak · « **Reply #5 on:** August 30, 2019, 10:21 »

@alihaber, Only if your content is on other sites then you must comply with the new price guideline or they will set it for you.

If you are only on pond5 but just not exclusive then I guess no issues but if you have same content on other sites then you must price by this new guideline.

StockDaebak · « **Reply #6 on:** August 30, 2019, 10:30 »

Well now it will be interesting to see what happens since pond5 lost all respect and trust of contributors due to their sneaky search price cap, changing our prices behind our backs and the clauses in the new agreement which allow them to do whatever they want including giving out content away for free in promotions etc.

I suspect everyone who sells on multiple sites will do the following and not limited to these steps:

Use Firefox with fairly strict cookie/security settings, use the Ublock origin plugin to limit how much they can track us when we use the site (all sites track us right down to our machine, browser and IP ID's btw).

Use a VPN or TOR over VPN to mask out true locations and IP address

Use different paypal accounts and email accounts and usernames for each site.

Prepare the clips a little differently for each site.

We need to match the ethics of these agencies, I'm sorry, time to return the favors and treat them with as much respect as they treat us.

Come on!, professional hackers would laugh at our inability to cover our identities and foil stuff like this.

Disclaimer:

Not advocating doing anything illegal but just matching the startup culture's ethics, they all push the limits, not just in stock, food delivery, ride sharing and more, why are we these nice guys and girls who are constantly finishing last?. Timesup!

cathyslife · « **Reply #7 on:** August 30, 2019, 10:54 »

Quote from: StockDaebak on August 30, 2019, 10:30

Well now it will be interesting to see what happens since pond5 lost all respect and trust of contributors due to their sneaky search price cap, changing our prices behind our backs and the clauses in the new agreement which allow them to do whatever they want including giving out content away for free in promotions etc.

I suspect everyone who sells on multiple sites will do the following and not limited to these steps:

Use Firefox with fairly strict cookie/security settings, use the Ublock origin plugin to limit how much they can track us when we use the site (all sites track us right down to our machine, browser and IP ID's btw).

Use a VPN or TOR over VPN to mask out true locations and IP address

Use different paypal accounts and email accounts and usernames for each site.

Prepare the clips a little differently for each site.

We need to match the ethics of these agencies, I'm sorry, time to return the favors and treat them with as much respect as they treat us.

Come on!, professional hackers would laugh at our inability to cover our identities and foil stuff like this.

Disclaimer:

Not advocating doing anything illegal but just matching the startup culture's ethics, they all push the limits, not just in stock, food delivery, ride sharing and more, why are we these nice guys and girls who are constantly finishing last?. Timesup!

A much simpler method would be to just stop doing business with companies that abuse you.

Noedelhap · « **Reply #8 on:** August 30, 2019, 11:19 »

Apparently I wasn't the only one who increased prices to make up for their commission cuts.
If they hadn't cut our commissions, we wouldn't have been forced to increase prices beyond the market price. Pond5 once again shows its true colors and pulls the same shady d*ck move Dissolve once did. All because of a problem they created themselves.

I once promoted Pond5 because they seemed fair and honest, now I've deleted all my Pond5 references, backlinks and promo material. Suck it, Pond5.

georgep7 · « **Reply #9 on:** August 30, 2019, 11:41 »

@StockDaebak

What is the point to do all this routine and then P5 that collaborates with e.g. AS submit your clips and

get a notice from AS "clip abc from your userA is not accepted as identical and already existing in our library as clip xyz from our userB"?

I would prefer to just delete my port there and move elsewhere if I start to believe that they disrespect me or my media.

TheoWalker · « **Reply #10 on:** August 30, 2019, 20:33 »

Are there other agencies that offer better conditions? Shutterstock sells our footage for $1.5, and they do not answer your email. Most agencies give much less than 40% to contributers. Where can you set your clip price higher than $79 and get 40%?
I think this is a good move by Pond5.

Noedelhap · « **Reply #11 on:** August 31, 2019, 05:41 »

Quote from: TheoWalker on August 30, 2019, 20:33

Are there other agencies that offer better conditions? Shutterstock sells our footage for $1.5, and they do not answer your email. Most agencies give much less than 40% to contributers. Where can you set your clip price higher than $79 and get 40%?
I think this is a good move by Pond5.

Whether or not they're still well above other agencies in terms of commission %, is irrelevant. The problem with Pond5 is their obvious lack of respect for their contributors, treating us like expendable suppliers and trying to mask their shady moves with marketing speak as if we're complete idiots.

Shutterstock may not be perfect either, at least they've never cut commissions. *knocks on wood*

Atomazul · « **Reply #12 on:** August 31, 2019, 09:59 »

Quote from: Noedelhap on August 31, 2019, 05:41

Shutterstock may not be perfect either, at least they've never cut commissions. *knocks on wood*

That's not much to hang their hat on, considering their royalties started low. And they've introduced plenty of their own shady, non-optional "subscription deals" over the years that ended up netting us less and less, without having to officially drop royalties.

Also, just to be clear, "commissions" are the portion the company takes, as they are the sales people. We earn "royalties" from those sales. I believe it was iStock who somewhat successfully reversed the true definition of the word "commission" to try to make their paltry 15% royalty sound more fair.

cthoman · « **Reply #13 on:** August 31, 2019, 13:23 »

They are going about this all wrong. They need to call all the other sites and tell them to raise their prices.

Noedelhap · « **Reply #14 on:** September 01, 2019, 05:33 »

I got an HD video sale today, the "list price" was $47.50 even though the actual price was $79, they even gave a discount, so it sold for $38, netting me only $15.80. What is going on?

It's sold even cheaper than my web price, which is $39...

Edit: probably a Global Partner Program, but it doesn't say so in the financials tab.

SpaceStockFootage · « **Reply #15 on:** September 01, 2019, 11:51 »

Yeah, I've had a $1.60 and a $3.00 commission from Shutterstock in the last couple of weeks.

marthamarks · « **Reply #16 on:** September 02, 2019, 20:25 »

Quote from: SpaceStockFootage on September 01, 2019, 11:51

Yeah, I've had a $1.60 and a $3.00 commission from Shutterstock in the last couple of weeks.

For video??? Yikes!

Open_ · « **Reply #17 on:** September 03, 2019, 08:51 »

my clip priced higher at P5 for buyer that want to appreciate and give more to the artist that create it even though they know they can get cheaper elsewhere. and I do value my work that much, and the risk buyer run away to cheaper option also on me. but 8 years on P5 my income growth despite higher price tag proof that price is not the case.

If I can set price higher at SS i would do, but I can't and SS have their own business model.

Why those idiots at P5 wanna follow SS price setting? 79$ is fair price? why not 34$? why not 400$ a clip?

On my firsthand experience selling my content on various marketplaces with varied price tag, the hysteria about buyer will run to cheaper sites is not 100% true. it's almost a decade now and higher priced marketplaces still not outshines by free/cheaper content marketplaces.

SpaceStockFootage · « **Reply #18 on:** September 03, 2019, 10:36 »

Quote from: Open_ on September 03, 2019, 08:51

my clip priced higher at P5 for buyer that want to appreciate and give more to the artist that create it even though they know they can get cheaper elsewhere.

LOL!

Noedelhap · « **Reply #19 on:** September 05, 2019, 07:44 »

Quote from: Noedelhap on August 30, 2019, 11:19

I once promoted Pond5 because they seemed fair and honest, now I've deleted all my Pond5 references, backlinks and promo material. Suck it, Pond5.

And then out of the blue, an email from Pond5:
"Promote Your Work: Each month, the Top 3 artists with the biggest increase in referral traffic to their portfolios win a $100 VISA gift card and promotion from Pond5!"

They really are trying everything to keep us on board! We raise our prices, they cap it. We remove our ref links, they throw in some gift cards for active members to push traffic.

StockDaebak · « **Reply #20 on:** September 06, 2019, 21:08 »

Quote from: alijaber on August 30, 2019, 09:45

Just got this e-mail from P5:

Dear Artist,

As you know, allowing artists to set their prices is a principle we hold dearly at Pond5. We do this because it attracts a diverse set of artists and content to our community, which in turn brings in more buyers. Ultimately this freedom creates value for everyone.

As stewards of the marketplace, we have an obligation to make sure that no Artist is doing something that will negatively impact other Artists. That is why our Contributor Agreement mandates pricing minimums and also requires that non-exclusive content not be listed for a price higher than on competing websites. When non-exclusive content is priced higher on Pond5 than on competing websites it destroys the integrity of the marketplace and hurts all the other artists on the platform who abide by the community rules. Over time when buyers learn they can find the same clip for less money elsewhere (at lower artist royalties by the way), they stop coming back. We can never allow this to happen.

If you have non-exclusive video clips in your portfolio priced higher than what they are listed for on a competitive site, in the coming weeks, we will be adjusting pricing to the market rate of $79 for HD and $179 for 4K.

If your portfolio is exclusive but is not marked as such, please sign up for the Exclusivity Program. "

I just re-read this email, "As stewards of the marketplace"?, WHO does pond5 think they are?, They are NOT stewards of anything other than their own business, their own marketplace.

There is a line "we cannot allow this to happen", I am sorry?, who are you Pond5? you have no authority outside of your business period. They are perfectly fine to have rules but their wording is out of order as they try and justify their latest schemed to win the race to the bottom.

This would be like one of the cell phone providers declaring themselves stewards of the marketplace or a store chain declaring themselves stewards of the marketplace, in their own mind, nice advertising maybe but they aren't an official body whatsoever.

I think are are getting close to this being brought into the public realm, on social media, the tech press, the industry press and perhaps a change.org petition.

Obviously this company has end game plans for us and that's to make us feel valued and encourage us to feel good about valuing our work all while undercutting us at every turn until we go bankrupt. The earnings numbers don't lie but pond5 sure does.

StockDaebak · « **Reply #21 on:** September 06, 2019, 21:17 »

Another point here about Pond5's obsession with racing to the bottom, I am not sure if it's new management there now or they have simply hired some of the most clueless business people on the planet but they are obsessed with us lowering our prices as they say now, suddenly, after all these years, that buyers will rush off to other sites that offer cheaper.

Suddenly?, now?, they want us to believe this?, how come hordes of customers bought hundreds of thousands of dollars with of video from Pond5 over the years all while many of the same clips where on other sites for less?.

Will they lose some business to the cheaper sites?, yes, just like always.

Tl;dr Start uploading to every other viable site until every frame of video you have is uploaded, don't wait.

georgep7 · « **Reply #22 on:** September 07, 2019, 03:29 »

Here is an opposite opinion.

They made a huge change. This would have a great impact to buyers for sure.
Prices of non exlusives, it was logical that went higher to compensate the percentage losses,
exclusive ones, was logical to raise prices as long as they lose sales from all other agencies.

Buyers that didn't run away, started compaining, "george's file is priced else $69, but in you P5, he asks $129 are you serious?"

All promo and discounts went for nothing, so they had to start selling off. LLC and GPP.
I wonder if people still having business or premium licensed sales, need to post: "oh! a good month!" or so.
We just complain, "look! they lower my prices" instead of "they adjusted my prices to what other agencies price my work"
I can be dillusional and ask $149 for a red rose because I bought a 4K camera to shoot it but hey, it is just a red rose. I will never sell it.
edit II ...but they have to accept it try to promote it and host it's huge 100mbps file always online for a life time.

I use to laugh: "in Pond we trust"

not

On the other side, if they just want good content to sell for $1,76 or to fill AS gaps
or they start promoting Reuters or Newsflare as their main content,
there is this 6 month period to ask content deletion and in the meantime
negotiate with whatever other agency for a beneficial bulk portfolio upload.

Company decisions take seconds to apply and months to show the results.
As long as they don't have or have-me in a subscription marketplace,
and i have the opt-out alternative of LLC & GPP programs i am fine with it.

Just my thoughts.

Edit, whenever they present anything new, "they are in panic".
Really? Not sure about that.
They keep trying, as we do. Some things fail, some things succeed.
Way before entering the stock world, I was so amazed from Youtubers pushing e.g. StoryBlocks.

StockDaebak · « **Reply #23 on:** September 07, 2019, 09:08 »

@georgep7 Great points and good post, there are two sides to everything, it would be so much better if the agencies would simply be more open and transparent with us, I bet half of our worries and theories would evaporate if they simply told us the truth and showed us the numbers.

SS for example doesn't even respond to us except for their support which is now contracted out to other contributors, you are a supplier and selling product through that company and they refuse to speak to you. Is that even business?.

Now P5 has gone in the same direction and I can only assume it is due to the investors calling the shots and silencing management or perhaps new management are in place and they don't speak to us, they don't even lie to us anymore or perhaps the current management doesn't want to come in the forums and lie to us anymore because they themselves can't stomach the crap that the higher ups have them doing.

AS for negotiating bulk purchases with other agencies, it is on my agenda for next week and not just with other agencies but I am going to take complete inventory of all the clips I have and basically put the business up for sale but also start doing my own marketing for what I have on Pond5 and SS to drive some traffic on my own but if I can sell the whole thing I will.

As optimistic as I usually am about we just need to try harder and learn marketing and SEO I am starting to worry that a huge portion of demand for the content has gone away or lost due to the free content out there. The really big houses who worry about legal stuff will keep buying from Pond5 as they offer the best indemnification in the industry but the others and the smaller players might just chance it with a free clip.

It's no different that with software, companies want to run legal and license every copy of every software that's deployed but when times get tough like they are getting now then they try and chance it.

"Something" happened on April 1 2019 across all agencies and we still haven't figured that out 100% yet, in 2018 there was a big drop in April as well if I remember but there was a recovery, not this year.

Selling direct is an option but it's hard and time consuming and bigger clients won't chance it as they need the legal indemnification that companies like Pond5 provide as these days just merely defending from a lawsuit can sink a business into bankruptcy.

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Author Topic: Pond5 will remove ability to set prices? (Read 11252 times)

alijaber

spike

jjneff

georgep7

alijaber

StockDaebak

StockDaebak

cathyslife

Noedelhap

georgep7

TheoWalker

Noedelhap

Atomazul

cthoman

Noedelhap

SpaceStockFootage

marthamarks

Open_

SpaceStockFootage

Noedelhap

StockDaebak

StockDaebak

georgep7

StockDaebak

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