So what's this thing about 123rf images still not being deleted?

Quote from: Microstock Posts on July 21, 2011, 19:06
This may be true, but my feeling is that Asian mentality is often different. Asians, living in Asia often believe in getting reward quickly for work done (which isn't such a bad thing). Microstock is a long slog and it can take years to create a decent income.

I'm not sure if that's true in India, or at least not in Kerala - one of the most highly educated states.  I've seen too many people slogging for little or nothing in the hopes of having some kind of  position in the future.

Also microstock isn't a long slog for India. At all. They could easily make a decent living off shutterstock alone in just the first year.

And don't forget that they'll get as hooked as us by seeing sales everyday. Except that the money attached to their DLs will be a lot more meaningful: salaries are really, really low here compared to the west.

QuoteAlthough India and Asia have huge populations, I just don't see a large proportion of them trying microstock with the intention of making a living. If they had the means, they are more likely to look at the profits of microstock sites and invest money in making one themselves.

That's possible. Entrepreneurship here is huge. But that only suits certain types of people. Don't forget -  there's a highly educated, highly tech-savvy middleclass demographically exploding - all with laptops and internet access and a hunger for something new.

Quote from: ShadySue on July 21, 2011, 18:01

Quote from: luceluceluce on July 21, 2011, 17:15
The same rules apply for the red crescent I guess...

Yes, and the Red Crystal.

first i thought you were making a world of warcraft joke : D and then I imagined giant reiki sessions in refugee camps... wikipedia can be such a cure for being a dumbasss.  A diamond shape doesn't have the medical ring about it imo

I think it's to prevent people from shooting at things with a red cross on it.  As the thing with a red cross on it is generally a humanitarian worker, they're mightily sensible in banning everyone from making commercial artwork out of it.

The same rules apply for the red crescent I guess...

Everytime I click on an interesting thumbnail it seems to come with an eastern european name attached. The cost of living in some countries makes microstock really worthwhile. I reckon it's in the thousands...

And soon enough there'll be a lot more because the amount of indian contributers is going to shoot up. The infrastructure and training is there (and then some). Young indians are highly digiliterate - they're just not yet fully aware of the opportunities.

Quote from: Microbius on July 21, 2011, 15:50
I love the comment about degrading the value of photography to where people are stealing images. Like everyone knows the cheaper something is the more likely someone is to steal it.

lol 

Quote from: zager on July 21, 2011, 07:33

Quote from: luceluceluce on July 21, 2011, 07:20
Oh come on -  this is not the way is it?  These things are easily misinterpretable. People don't want to be creeped out in the middle of a trust-building exercise.  Honestly... I'm sure you're intentions were  good but what kind of impression does this give? 

No offense. I just meet a lot of people so it was a bookmark for me to remember who's who. So I can collect the puzzle easily.

I don't envy your position. Everyone makes mistakes.  It's nice that you're making an effort to do the right thing and help improve the integrity of industry - because that's fairly rare. 

Quote from: cthoman on July 20, 2011, 17:45
I kind of like that people don't sugarcoat their opinions on this forum.

They definitely don't sugarcoat them    they embed small shards of glass in them

I have noticed the anonymous people are meaner. Prison guards had their mirrored aviators taken away for exactly this reason. 

It's called feeding the beast. It's the bad news.

Quote from: zager on July 20, 2011, 10:55

Quote from: luceluceluce on July 20, 2011, 10:51
it's a start : ) ... are you going to widen its scope in the future? 

For a start there are so many problems with account closures.  How about a statement that no account can be closed if it doesn't break the terms and conditions?  Closures can be so arbitrary, with no robust appeals process.

I'm watching the issues of other agencies. The Fairstock initiative is still in early stage, so for now I'm gathering information and adding people to the list so I know what we have and then I have some ideas in what direction would be the best with it...

Sounds a bit faffy. The best direction is fairness, if the name of the initiative is anything to go by.  If it's going to be the kind of initiative that will only use its little finger, and tentatively at that, will it really get anywhere beyond a PR bonus?

Quote from: zager on July 20, 2011, 10:15

Quote from: luceluceluce on July 20, 2011, 10:00
The Fair Stock Agency initiative sounds really interesting. Will it help strengthen the rights of contributers?

I hope so. Here's more:
http://www.fairstockphotoagency.com/
http://www.microstockdiaries.com/can-a-voluntary-code-of-conduct-make-a-difference-in-microstock.html

it's a start : ) ... are you going to widen its scope in the future? 

For a start there are so many problems with account closures.  How about a statement that no account can be closed if it doesn't break the terms and conditions?  Closures can be so arbitrary, with no robust appeals process.

Quote from: zager on July 20, 2011, 09:44
You're right. We've been investigating this internally. We've implemented several new control mechanisms. We've returned the money to contributors and I've launched the Fair Stock Agency initiative to clearly state the issues that might happen to any agency in future. I'll be working on this in the future and will try to avoid any such problems in the future.

As I told you guys before. I'm clever enough to realize that without each of you on our side we're lost. I'm not going to do any activity that would result in negative buzz or loose of trust. Sure I can't avoid new issues to approach us, but I'll definitely try to be open and honest.

Nice response : ) 

The Fair Stock Agency initiative sounds really interesting. Will it help strengthen the rights of contributers?

Why is it so hard to be ethical?  You said 'There's no agency that will be "clean" forever as there are people in every agency and people are not perfect.'

Can you not implement a system of checks and balances to counteract this problem?  Or are you saying all agencies are inately corrupt and there's no solution for it?

We do all make mistakes, but the kind of mistakes where our earnings go in your pocket requires something more concrete than an apology.

You think the solution is for us to forgive you fast - but it's up to you to prove we can trust you, isn't it?  What are doing to guarantee this doesn't happen again?

I'm confused. In baby language - was the problem that earnings were being unreported?

Dammit I voted no - can I change my vote?   If it will cut down on the trade in personal insults it... hang on, stupid thought, personal insults are hardly endangered here, and all of them are being given away for free.

Quote from: pseudonymous on July 19, 2011, 14:23

Quote from: BaldricksTrousers on July 19, 2011, 11:18
Perhaps there should be a "psychic pre-ignore" button, so you don't have to read the threads you don't want to read in order to find out that you don't want to read them.

Otherwise you will have fallen into the trap of having to read threads in order to ignore them, which seems counter-productive.

I've been known not to bother opening a thread because the topic sounds uninteresting, it's so much more effective than having to check out a thread to find out that you didn't want to.

it made my brain hurt before I laughed

Quote from: heywoody on July 19, 2011, 10:28

Quote from: luceluceluce on July 19, 2011, 09:20
.......aside from all this microstock is the King, Queen, Royal Duchess and Archchancellor of the Internet.

Actually, I think those positions are probably occupied by porn 

I'm a republican  - for real leadership you need a democracy, not a monarchy. Porn would be more like the Silvio Berlusconi of the Internet.

Quote from: SNP on July 18, 2011, 16:16

Quote from: sjlocke on July 18, 2011, 12:41

Quote from: Roxxstock on July 18, 2011, 11:38
I noticed you mention a particular stock site, iStockphoto. Even with my limited experience in the microstock market even I have heard about these folks. In the pro world their called iFlop

Lol, the "pro world".

so Sean, you're like King of the Amateurs....way to go, you might be able to even go pro one day if you keep up all that hard work.

Aside from the fact that every new field is generally pioneered by amateurs because the 'pros' are waiting for a tested business model, and the olympics are full of amateurs, and the word professional just means someone who makes money from their rather enjoyable hobby and not, as commonly believed, someone invested with a divine right to monopolise a niche, aside from all this microstock is the King, Queen, Royal Duchess and Archchancellor of the Internet.

Quote from: pseudonymous on July 18, 2011, 14:07

Quote from: sjlocke on July 18, 2011, 12:43

Quote from: Roxxstock on July 18, 2011, 12:23I don't know any personally and I don't even think I know any professionals that contribute to microstock sites with images either. Some probably do make a living from microstock, even I have heard of one guy from Scandinavia, Yuri ? - but a Getty colleague said he believes even he is jumping soon and will sell his pictures through his own website. No doubt he will make some serious income doing that.

This little bit makes me think Roxx is not quite who he proclaims to be.  The statement is a bit "I know nothing, but oh, by the way, I heard this...", made with full knowledge of the topic.

It would have been a bit more convincing if you misspelled his name .

I have to agree, I thought this post was a little 'try hard' but at the same time, I'm not so sure that Yuri is as popular outside of the microstock world.  I've put up a poll in my facebook page asking if people know him..

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Sunny-Mars-Designs/150453311638512

No one's answered yet, they're probably googling him, don't give a stuff about him or sick of seeing his name... we'll see tomorrow.

I live in one of the top ten paradises of the world, so there are a lot of togs here on assignment from the telegraph, or thomas cook or other splashy magazine things.

I'm kind of like a dog that when it sees another dog will instantly run over and try and sniff its camera - so I meet a lot of them. All of them instantly become alert (possibly the same way you become alert if someone deposits a giant dog poo on your lawn, but still alert) when I mention microstock and all of them, bar none, have heard of Yuri, or more accurately 'some guy from denmark with a funny name, Yorgi or something, built his own kitchen in his studio...'

Are we allowed dark humour?  Like a nasty muddy purply brown, or a neat little charcoal?

It's a relief that black humour is not allowed.

There should be a word for it, but there isn't : (

We already have the word 'censorship' for when other people try to stop us seeing things.  But what when we want to stop ourselves seeing things? 

Maybe it's such a silly idea that no one ever bothered to invent a word for it.  But obviously there's a call for such a word - otherwise why would people drink, or take take sleeping pills, or avoid leaving their house?  The world is a deeply frightening and unsettling place, forums especially so

If they only invented a glue that was safe for eyeballs then we'd be able to stick little bits of square black paper on our eyes. 

Quote from: luissantos84 on July 17, 2011, 19:15

Quote from: luceluceluce on July 17, 2011, 19:02
I don't know if nikon has an equivalent, but for me, if you don't have much cash, it's worth going canon just for this lens.

nikon has it too, kind of famous, the Nifty Fifty!

dammit i thought that was the name for the canon one. Thrifty fifty doesn't have the same ring : ( and is also difficult to say at high speed.

Quote from: luissantos84 on July 17, 2011, 15:55
the 50mm is a great great lens that I use almost always

Me too! I love this little lens - and it's always so reliably spot on. Sports is the only thing I can't use it with (personal safety reasons only). 

If I were ever to go travelling, I really like the idea of taking just this. Plus - and bonus - people think you have a normal camera, not a scary one, so it's great for the sneaky flyby moments.  And you can really throw it around. Cheapness and robustness often seem to go together...

I don't know if nikon has an equivalent, but for me, if you don't have much cash, it's worth going canon just for this lens.

Quote from: BaldricksTrousers on July 17, 2011, 10:30
Ok, Will, assuming you are a teenager with little cash who wants to learn on an SLR, why not think about something like a Zenit-E or Praktica film camera? You should be able to get a decent one for about $30 (with lens). Film is cheap as long as you don't burn too much and you don't have to get prints (which is the expensive bit), you could get a scanner like an Epson V500 for less than $200.

A film SLR has the same creative possibilities as a digital SLR, allowing you to see what the lens sees, switch lenses, select your apertures and focus point and use macro tubes etc. for extreme close-ups. Master a film SLR and switching to digital later on is easy.

That set-up won't get you into microstock but it will let you learn "proper" photography on a pay-as-you go basis, without having to put $1,000 up front for a cheap digital SLR. If buying and processing 35mm film costs you $5 per roll, you can burn your way through 6,000 frames before the cost gets up to what a cheap, new DSLR would set you back. If you shoot that much film in a year or two you should be damned good by the end of it.

Actually, it is possible to get 35mm Epson film scans accepted on microstock, but you have to be very, very careful in the shooting, processing and scanning to get acceptable small-size files so it's certainly not a good way of getting into the microstock biz.

Yeah, but you can buy a decent entry level digital canon or nikon for $300 second hand.  If you want to learn, lots and lots of input and lots and lots of practice is the best way - and 50,000 shots on a dslr costs nothing. With film you just get a few chances for practice, and it's a lot slower.    Do we have to practice in gokarts before we get the car?  Learn to use a stick before we use a brush? Become expert at the cup and string before it's advisable to get our first phone?

It's like learning a language - total immersion is the best way. Film just can't do that - the number of shots you can take is terrifyingly small.  I'm not even sure teens today can handle numbers that small, or timescales that slow.