Add me to the list for not uploading anymore new stuff until changes are made.

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Quote from: Yuri_Arcurs on January 13, 2008, 23:30
I will be opting out and in over the next few days to see if there is a difference in income. So fare none. Andreas will be doing this too

Yuri and Andres, is it just how much earnings your seeing with or without subscriptions that your looking at? Isn't there a bigger picture here? I thought this was about taking a stand against the subscriptions models mixed in with regular sale sites. Don't you think your work is worth more then that? I certainly think it is.

Lets take Canstock as an example. When I joined there it was regular sales only, no subscription plan. Later on down the road they decide to implement a subscription plan and not have an opt out clause. I stayed there and eventually saw more then half my sales coming from the subscription side. I felt this devalued my work , like many other photographers feel. I decided to take a stand there and leave in protest.  I respect Duncan and his decision to head in that direction but it is not the direction I want to head in. He left me no option other then to accept it or leave.

I opted out as soon as I saw Stockxpert implement there sub plan. I do appreciate Stockxpert allowing us to opt out and I will continue to support them with new material because they gave me the option to opt out. I saw no drop off in sales at all from that and in fact have had my best month ever since the sub plan went into effect there. Would I have earned more if I opted in? I don't think much... but thats not the point of me dropping out of it. I think all of our work has more value then .25 or .30 cents.

Now if some site takes the idea of sub plans based on size that is downloaded, that would be something that is fair to both buyers and contributers. I would opt into a plan like that

I hope that Crestock and some of the others decide to go in that direction, if I see that happen at Crestock then I would join , but not until then or until they implement the opt out clause with the current sub plan. 

As far as SS goes, everyone knew it was a subscription plan when they joined and you can, as mentioned, upload smaller versions.

DT's sub plan so far is an insignificant amount of sales for me. I don't like it but even if it gained more sales I think it would be offset by the higher level payouts I see there.

In the end though I think we need to do more to let the sites know that we do not like these plans as they are and if they have to have them then make them by size or allow the opt out clause like the good people at Stockxpert have done.

Very good thread.

opt out now ...
Yuri Arcurs
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 Mark...

I am at Shutterstock and have been almost from the start, sign up number 496. But I knew going in it was a subscription based site and they have always had huge volume. It is normally my number one earning site. Its also worth mentioning that SS has the best referral program out there and with that alone I earn more in one month  then I would total in three months at CanStockPhoto. There are people who do nothing but refer other people to the site.

I have already stated my reasons for leaving CanStockPhoto.  Basically the business model of the site has changed from when I signed up to it.  CanStockPhoto is simply heading in a direction that I didn't want to follow.

From what I can tell over at Stockxpert there subscription model is not doing all that great and accounts for a very low percentage of sales there.  But since they offered an opt out clause I have no problem with the plan. Most people I'm sure opt into it. But you have the choice.

Dreamstime also has a subscription plan but it also only accounts for a very small percentage of my sales there and the larger "level" sales earnings more then make up for the sub sales there. I wish they had an opt out clause to but since the subscription plan has been in place for quite a while now and it is a low percentage of sales I can live with it.

So I am not against a subscription based site as long as it was that when I went in. If its implemented later then I want to see an opt out clause at least for anyone who was there prior to the plan being implemented.  Like Joanne says, the volume of sales and the referral program at SS makes up for the low price per photo.

 

Quote from: sharpshot on December 02, 2007, 20:21
Will StockXpert be able to keep the opt out option?  I think it will be difficult to keep it.  If I was going to pay for a subscription, I would want to be able to purchase all the images on a site, not just a selection of them.

StockXpert has a clause that says.

"Gain instant access to virtually every image on the site and save hundreds, even thousands, when you Subscribe to Stockxpert."

Its clearly displayed right next to the pricing for the subcription  plan.

Keep in mind that  they have substantially more photos to pick from then CanStockPhoto does. Even if half the photos where not in the subscription plan they would probably still have more to pick from then CanStockPhoto does.

Quote from: sharpshot on December 08, 2007, 08:35
Haven't you done all the work on the photos already?  I have started to send some to CanStockPhoto.  It is just another upload and a few seconds admin.  $0.25 isn't much but that would be $0.00 if you didn't upload it.

I think his point is that .25 cents is way to low for a 10 mega pixel photo. I left there for that reason. If your happy with that pay out for your large size photo then CanStockPhoto is the place to be for you!  You will see roughly half your sales being the .25 cents type.  I for one think that percentage of sales will continue to grow as they market the subscription sales more and more.

Lets play out this scenario,  a savvy buyer is signed up at two stock photo sites , I'll use  BigStockPhoto and CanStockPhoto as  examples. He finds a photo he likes and is exactly what he is looking for while browsing the BigStock site. He wants a large file of the photo.  So he knows CanStockPhoto has the subscription plan, which he has purchased. He goes over there to see if the same photo is available.  He finds it!  He decides to buy it there saving himself some money over BigStock's price.  Under that scenario that photographer has lost out.  Sure he gained a .25 cent sale at CanStockPhoto but he lost a sale at BigStock that could have earned him $3.00. The buyer would have purchased the photo at BigStock because it was exactly what he wanted. Now multiply that times one hundred sales or a thousand sales  and you can see how the subscription plan CAN hurt your bottom line.

Think about it. The sites with subscription sales will tell you that the buyer will download many more photos then they would without the plan. Yes, that is true but what they don't say is most of those won't be yours. They will download many versions of a subject from many different photographers and pick the one they want later.  They will try to tell you that you wouldn't have gotten the sale without the subscription plan. They don't consider that scenario I mentioned above at all, you as a photographer should consider that scenario. You have the control over how your photo is being sold. If you don't like the prices there selling for at a site then you have the power to leave that site.  If you really think you gained a sale that you wouldn't have received and the .25 cents is worth it for your large size photos then  sites with subscription sales are the way to go for you.

That explains it. I have been waiting since Nov. 29th. I did write support  saying that I requested payment via Paypal and wondered why it wasn't processed yet. They responded to me by saying we don't send checks out until the 10th of the month and that I should be getting mine within a week.

I sent another one saying I wanted it by PAYPAL not CHECK, no response yet and no payment either. 

If I remember correctly they had lots of trouble when they first started using Paypal.  Wonder if there having the same problems again.

I sent in a request for payment on November 29th and still haven't gotten it. I guess I have to contact support.

Duncan, with all do respect I did not misquote you.  I still say it SEEMS you are intent on increasing that part of the site.  I did not quote you but got that very strong feeling from your response to me. You advertise specials for the subscription plan all the time. When you advertise it and say this what do you think it means to us?

"The subscription option was brought about by market pressures - it's no secret that the subscription model is continuing to increase in dominance. So as such, we got on board. "

You got on board, I never liked it and thats why I left. I  also don't agree that it is continuing to increase in market dominance. Its becoming more of what CS is all about but in my humble opinion its not in the overall microstock market.

I DO think it would be in your best interest to allow the opt out clause. Its why I left and I made that perfectly clear to you.  I know there are no guarantees but from everything you say I think your happy with the sub plan and want to keep it as is. What would change that would make you include an opt out clause when you say things like this?...

"Just imagine all the customers that would be pissed off if the image they searched for was not available once they bought a very expensive subscription. We can't very well market the site as having "600,000 images for credits, X for subscriptions". It would be a nightmare trying to separate the two and not making our customers confused and angry. So it's not a matter of us being stubborn - it just comes down to logistics. "


When I read that it sure seems like your not going to change it to include an opt out clause, at least not anytime soon.

Bottom line is they did allow an opt out clause at Stockxpert so it can be done and should have been done right from the start at CS.  It wasn't part of the plan when I joined CS and I felt it was wrong to force that on us later with no opt out clause.

As I said to you , I wish you luck with your site. This isn't personal, its business and the sub plan to me is bad business period.  Maybe you will see that someday Duncan, probably not.

I opted out of the subscription sales as soon as they let us. I have 860 photos there and have always done very good with them. I saw no drop in sales in Oct. and in fact it went up a little and November it went up again to my BME. 

  I just left CS because of subscription sales and no opt out clause. More then half my sales at CS where from sub sales.   I would rather be at sites that give you options and lets you make a fair price for your work then those that force plans on you that didn't exist when you joined them.

The sub sales at DT are rare for me but I don't mind them as much because they have those nice " level sales"  that balances  them out.

After reaching the payout level I decided it was time to call it quits with CS.

The main reason is the increase in subscription sales there. More then half my sales where subscription sales.  Duncan seems intent on increasing that part of the site so its a direction I was not willing to follow.

An opt out clause would have kept me there but he won't add one and has no plans on doing so. 

Not  really a big loss for me, I made about $25 to $30 a month there.  I used to make that same amount before he added the subscription plan  with all regular and guest sales. 

One nice benifit is its one less site to upload to!

Payment is for the month of October, ending on the 31st. If you have the $75 by then you get paid if not then you have to wait until the next months payout.

By the way, you did very good to reach $75.00 in such a short time.

Just had my first payout at LO last month. Sales are slow there but for me they have been fairly steady and picking up slightly.  Its a site that communicates extremely well with contributers and I think thats what a lot of us love about them. They do have a plan and are working hard on it, it will take time but sales are growing.

I am currently waiting to see if I get accepted to Alamy.

I know Alamy wants there photos saved in Adobe RGB 1998.

So I am wondering what format  I should shoot in, the RGB 1998 mode or continue to shoot int he sRGB mode and convert the ones that go to Alamy and leave the rest that go to the micro stock sites in sRGB?

If you submit to other micro stock sites do you send them in as  sRGB or  RGB 1998? I know they will take either format since I have submitted both versions to ten sites.

Any opinions? 


Thanks

Mike