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Messages - Roscoe

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326
And you were right! as wirestock answered me today very clear:

Thanks for the questions. With our Instant Pay Program you receive a one-time advance payment of $4-5/image (minus Wirestock commission) from each agency that selects your images. The selected images may be listed for free download on the agencies that select them, and you will no longer be able to remove the images from those agencies after you have received the advance payment. However, nothing will change in regards to the other agencies you have submitted to before, you will still continue licensing your images through existing agencies as well as there will not be any issue with iStock. The time frame is 3-4 months.

Clear! Thanks for sharing this!

327
You can see very consistently on the right in the list that not everyone is like you ... But it's true, we are an SME agency and certainly not the right choice for all photographers. That's ok too.
No doubt here that Zoonar has it's customers, and some contributors are doing relatively well, otherwise you wouldn't be able to keep it up and further develop it. The point I was trying to make is that, taking into consideration that some agencies have their own niche, I've seen selling my content on all of them, except for Zoonar. I find it a bit weird, but as you said, it's fine. It is what it is and I keep an eye on further developments.

Maybe you can share with the community what type of content tends to do well with you customer base.

328
Because I newly know that ALL images submitted to Alamy (directly or via Zoonar/wirestock...) appear on Agefoto!
So, if you upload your images to Alamy AND Zoonar, your images will already online on Agefoto - maybe before Agefoto even view your images upload to Zoonar.
But finally still interesting, if Agefoto at all still check the images on Zoonar or not.
Valid point, yet, I would expect rejections in that case instead of pending reviews. I use Wirestock for submitting to Alamy and disabled distribution via Zoonar. Age is still enabled at Zoonar. So it's a matter who's first at reviewing submitted content, and how fast the distribution and further cascading takes place. Funny to read though how images are further distributed amongst agencies. Before the commission ends up in the contributor's account, two or three other parties already took their share.


329
We have nothing against that! Good things take time  ;D

Sure, I understand. But I can only conclude that Zoonar is my worst performing agency.
I like Zoonar's concept and the distribution to other partners like DDP, PA and Age, but none of my content seems to sell (while it surely does on other agencies).
Age is not even reviewing submitted content. Why keep them on board?

I only have a few hundred images at Zoonar, so I'm not expecting to rain gold. But after one year no sales yet? That's weird, and I've never seen this at any other agency I submit to. Hell, even that clunky 90's looking PantherMedia is performing better than you guys, and I only have a handful of images there. And yes, I manually edit the English title and set the releases.

330
dreamstime:

Yes, after 6 month, images turn down to Level O. These images we can delete without problems. Or NOW: only disable! After 12 month these disabled images will be deleted and taken out of their system.
Images younger than 6 month with minimum Level 1, are more difficult to delete, but possible: As I read from others: You cannot delete to many, there is a limit, but I never read, what this limit exactly is.

No offense, but that sounds like some rather important info you might want to check out before making firm plans. I've found many opinions on the forums might have incorrect info (my own included). Just my 2 cents...

Rather important indeed. Maybe I missed it, but I can't recall reading instructions from Wirestock to delete content on non-wirestock submitted agencies after an instant pay license. I didn't do that for the images I sold via instant pay, so they are still out there (and not selling, hence the instant pay strategy at Wirestock for some of my content).

All I know is that submitting to wirestock is non-exclusive, except the Adobe exclusive program.

331
So, can we finally expect sales starting to take off?  ;)

332
I had sales via Wirestock on all agencies, including Alamy and the smaller ones like Dreamstime, DepositPhoto's, 123RF (which isn't supported anymore, I guess due to images not being reviewed) and Pond5.

But, don't expect your content to perform better via Wirestock.
Sales on smaller agencies are as slow as they are on personal accounts. At least, that's my experience.

333
I submit photos to Shutterstock pretty much daily and I don't see my photos ranking No. 1 with every keyword I use, so that certainly can't be what's happening here.

This.

Many contributors are uploading on a daily basis, and many of them more than 10 per day which would get you roughly the amount of images that our friend Oleg has online. They don't have their images at the top of the first page for single and highly competitive keywords.

While I haven't seen any proof of this, I can believe that maintaining an active portfolio is one (minor) of the many factors that can determine the ranking of content and sales. But it will not get it to the front page. I would say that requires very high click-through and conversion rates.

So it's clearly manipulated. Probably by blackhat techniques. Click/buy farms, or an exploit on the algorithm. We will probably never know, as those who know how to do it don't tell. At least, not here. There might be a thread on one of the Russian .onion hacking related forums or so, but hell, I'm too lazy to even start digging for that. I do know such forums have threads on how to download content without watermark, or links to complete dumps of unwatermarked and full-sized content.

Inside job is also possible, but it sounds more complicated and traceable to me. More risky for those involved. It's possible, but whoever did that looses the job and risks legal issues.

334
They will react only when sales can be affected. It is not a problem to forge many attributes, for example, Yahoo is not able to stop bitcoin ads spam, everytime it is coming from different addresses etc.

Yes, that's why I said "I would assume". Not sure they have this fraud detection built in.

Should be easy to test, no? Let's pick a random low quality image from deep down the SS haystack which we find by using a certain keyword, start clicking it, and see if it rises up the ranks.

335

Thank you, that's what I was thinking also. First page doesn't mean sales, if the images aren't good.

But I sure wonder how he's doing it?

Is the SS algorithm so stupid that a click farm can raise someones presence in the searches enough to make them first page? That's very unusual to imagine it's so easy to manipulate. And that would seem to indicate it's by artist not by individual images. Mine don't appear to display that way, they are by image and sales.

How sick would that be if anyone could raise their level and visibility just by having many more views?  :o

Far from being the expert here, but I would assume that CTR (Click Through Rate) is indeed one of the factors that determines the ranking of an image by the algorithm. Conversion rate (actual licensing) should be another one. In other words: if an image gets a lot of clicks we can assume it rises up in the ranks, but if nobody is buying it after closer inspection, it probably drops again.

I discovered yesterday that SS seems to be implementing these factors also in their front end. Popularity and Usage are on the image details page. At least, on my phone. Not (yet) on my PC. One of my images that get licensed several times a week since I uploaded it last year has low popularity and usage and an image that sold a few times more than a year ago and never again since then has high popularity and usage.

I would also assume that SS is able to detect basic manipulations. Clicks coming from the same account, PC, IP address or region should be discarded.

336
I think you are not alone, I can not collect minimum from October 2020 with many new uploads :( I think the need change minimum payment to $15.

Yeah, the 100$ threshold is ridiculous. They must be sitting on a huge pile of unpaid royalties due to the high payout threshold, and I guess that's what keeps them alive.

To answer the OP's question: just checked and my sales volume is pretty stable the last year with April even being a bit better. I did see a drop in RPD with even 0,12$ commissions passing by.


337
Okay, so could be programming to farm clicks or certain amount of dls from subs accounts to boost positions

If that's what he did, then why only Shutterstock and not on other agencies? He has 53 sales on Dreamstime, which is on the normal or even lower side for a portfolio of that.
I wonder how much it would cost, how much of your own images you must buy, to reach the front page with so many images for highly competitive keywords.
It would also require a lot of subscription plans owned by different companies or persons to pull it off. If that's what happened, this would mean there's a shady industry behind it also offering similar services to other contributors. Meaning: you can buy content ranking. 

Or... it might indeed be a weird Shutterstock experiment as well. See how buyers react on quality and image ranking and how it compares to other agencies.
Push a regular image to the front page and see how long it's able to hold position.

Hell I don't know. But for sure it's manipulated. We can all agree to that.


338
Conclusion - I think dear Oleg is a piece of AI masquerading as a person and is probably being used to test search functions and software as there is no way anyone could get the top slot in all of these search terms.

Little doubt the account is fake. It would be foolish to sign up with personal credentials and information when your goal is to manipulate the system, and violate the TOS. And manipulated it is. But whoever is behind it is not a lazy person, he/she sure took the time and effort to make it look as legit as possible. 

339
Many years ago i tried to collaborate with one photographers search utility and stopped after several hours. Any search for any location in the world brought results list with photographers located in India on first positions followed by the photographers from the selected location.

The question is: why. Some contributors claim that the algorithms of agencies favor contributors from certain area's or countries, e.g. India or Eastern Europe. Not saying that's not true, but I never believed that agencies are programming their algorithm in a way that it promotes content from contributors in a certain area in the world. Because... why would they?

Maybe some contributors have better connections to dubious service companies that are involved in internet promotion and black hat SEO techniques. Or less shame to contact those companies. Have a network of Shutterstock subscription plan owners and make them all buy the same image so it rises up in the ranking. Pay them some money, and meanwhile get the earnings of being on the front page. Once you're on the front page, and the image is "useful enough" for buyers, commissions should start rolling in.

So far my theory. All the other ones (having someone on the "inside" for instance) all sound way too complicated or even impossible.

340
Brought up on the Shutterstock forum, but some of you might have missed it.

Check the guy's portfolio and then the ranking of his images
(not sure if I'm allowed to put up a link to his portfolio here, but you can find it on the SS forum in the One account phenomenon topic)
The guy has a lot of his images showing up on the first page for highly competitive keywords. (e.g. car, cat, beach, ...)

Now, I'm sure a lot of you have similar images in terms of quality of cars, cats, beaches and so on but most of them are probably nowhere near the first pages.
And he managed to get a lot of his content on the first page for highly competitive keywords. Not just a few lucky submissions which gained traction.
A bit too much to be a coincidence, and the balance between quality, competition and ranking seems to be off if you ask me.

So how did he do it?

My personal theory on this is that he paid clickfarm-like organizations to buy images from his portfolio until they reached on the first page.
Is it true? I don't know, but if it is, a lot of others are probably doing the same. 

341
he is a nasty back stabber as far as i know, during the whole dollar club fiasco with fotolia he was the one booting out fellow contribs for taking a stand, and he took that with him to adobe, and now he is happily defending another back stabbing event. make no mistake all these agency reps are rats, only working to increase their employers bottom line. ive been long enough in this business to know that they are literally all cut from the same tree
I understand people want to be mad at someone rather than at something, but you are shooting the messenger here.
Sure. He preaches the word of his employer. What else did you expect?

At least he's reaching out to contributors on non official message boards like this, informs them and answers questions directly, within strict limitations of his role as an employee of the agency that pays him to do so. I don't see other agencies doing that, and certainly not on this level. So give the guy a break, will ya. I'm sure his personal opinion doesn't always match the strategy, policies or developments he's supposed to promote.

342
Has anyone actually seen a sale or payment or is this all pages of guesses and knee jerk reactions? No I don't expect I'll be "excited" and happy when I do, but people closing accounts, removing images and we haven't seen one bit of how much we actually will or won't get?

To alter slightly: "Microstock is no longer a viable professional option for 98% of contributors." And hasn't been for some years. Why is this a surprise?


You are right Pete, we don't know the impact yet. And if the claim of Matt is right - Adobe aiming for additional, new customers who need big volumes - and regular plans remain untouched and none of those customers jump to the unlimited plan, than the effect on your Adobe Stock earnings might even be positive. Already quite some "if's"
But your RDP will go down. And that's point. Again a devaluation of content.

Sure, if customers shift from Getty or Shutterstock to Adobe, those 0,02$ at Getty or 0,1$ at Shutterstock commissions might be worth 0,15$ or 0,25$ at Adobe. Maybe. Still pennies though. Or 0,01$, also possible. We don't know.

And that's why people get mad.
No transparency. Hope for the best while you are being played.
No control for the contributor on opting out content for subscription plans or partnerships. I know, they all do that, and I still find that a real d*ck move.
And also, no alternative anymore, as Adobe was more or less the last one standing in microstockworld.

Everyone has seen similar moves by agencies too many times before. Did it ever turn out positive in recent history?
I don't need to remind you the SS debacle a year ago. Some even claimed "I actually think my earnings will go up by this"
Meanwhile we know they didn't, unless you worked really harder better faster stronger.  8)

So yeah, against one's better judgement: let's see how it plays out.
Deep down we already know: "exciting".  :o

 

343
The microstock will shrink and shrink into atomstock

Within a few years we're all gonna need CERN's particle accelerator to find out about our earnings.

Agencies claim they are there, yet still to be discovered by the contributors.

344
No, everything seems to be fine.

Sorry to tell you the obvious, but contact their support.
They should be able to tell you what went wrong with your portfolio.

345
General Stock Discussion / Re: 500px
« on: April 15, 2021, 10:17 »
As mentioned, another Getty gateway.
I made some money from a small, dormant portfolio dating back from 2012, when bigger sales still occurred.
Only two sales worth mentioning last year, both VCG, both 6 dollar. This year: 0.

I don't upload there. You need premium membership to have unlimited uploads, so without it will take you quite some time to build a decent portfolio.

Would advice against it, not worth the time and effort.


346
Bigstock.com / Re: Website down?
« on: April 13, 2021, 05:32 »
The site is up, but the sales are down.

Sales have been down for years  ;D
Yeah. I reported the issue to their support. They told me it's a feature, and I have to work harder.

347
Bigstock.com / Re: Website down?
« on: April 13, 2021, 03:21 »
The site is up, but the sales are down.

348
Shutterstock.com / Re: Will Getty buy Shutterstock?
« on: March 22, 2021, 15:01 »
The only reason why one of the two would buy each other is to eliminate competition. Now, I'm anything but an economist, but from my point of view both of them seem be too big to buy, and there's no real benefit or added value for them as both are more or less doing the same. None of them needs extra content, they are fed more than they need.

What I do see happening is Getty/Istock or Shutterstock buying a company or startup that actually has something to offer.
This can be a technology (AI?) or a userbase (social media or creative software) with strong engagement towards images and video's covering trends outside regular stock.

349
Only slightly above average month regarding sales volume here but there was one nice surprise of a $$$ sale of an image that never sold before anywhere else.
And I got the full 15% of it  :o  How generous of them  :-\

Complaining aside (yes I do know the commissions and by uploading I agree), it's those on demand sales that can make your month at iStock/Getty or Shutterstock nowadays. I wonder what other's experiences are with the type of images that generally sell as on demand for higher commissions. The ones I got were all pretty quirky or very specific, often editorial or illustrative editorial and not the general stock type of image that ends up being sold as subs. iStock/Getty sometimes gives some additional information, but not for this one this month. The other times I sold for higher commissions additional information always mentioned book publishing.


350
10 cents / image?

Now seriously. I don't shoot models, but I do know that some of them, starters, are willing to do it for free in return for the images/video's which they can add to their portfolio.
If you're starting to shoot models too, and need to develop your skills, it might be a fair deal. But be cautious with subjects you shoot, and explain them very well what can happen with images when they end up on stock sites.
Read: https://www.microstockgroup.com/general-stock-discussion/sensitive-use-complaint/msg0

Professional models might be on the safer side in regards to future hassle, as you can expect them to know what they're doing, but more risky for you as you might never recover the investment.

I see many contributors using themselves or a close relative/friend as a model. I think this is the better option, but needlessly to say: explain what the consequences can be of modelling for stock. The image can be used in a context the model doesn't want to have any affiliation with.



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