Quote from: Microstockphoto on February 16, 2017, 06:54
have you read your reply? what a load of work to use a bank. my word,  walking to a bank, scanning and emailing photos,

deferring payments, but that doesn't add more work to your financial administration?

You said it would take 2 months to get a cheque, not me

anyway,  not my business, you are right

It seems that you like to exaggerate to try and prove your point.

Opening up the banking app on your phone, is one click. Then you click the button to submit cheques, then you point your cellphone camera at the cheque and press the button. Then review it. Finally you press another button to submit it.

Brutally complicated, isn't it?

Paypal annoyances notwithstanding, that's not much action required to save, say, $100 on a $5000 cheque, or $200 on a $10,000 cheque.

Deferring payments isn't really a problem if you're financially stable. We already had to defer payments from iStock by 7 weeks. In the era of diminishing stock photo returns, it actually works out because (at least in my case) my income appeared lower and I paid less in tax. Not sure about anywhere else, but Canadians are already allowed to defer up to $20k / year, depending on income, and most people that are good with money will max out contributions to their deferred income account called RRSPs. I'm sure other countries have similar programs.

What I *really* said is that I was frustrated with PayPal's exorbitant rates and was looking at ways to avoid those losses. You came along with a bunch of reasons (and assumptions) why I should appreciate Paypal because: convenience. Most people couldn't defer payments if their life depended on it. So I don't expect them to really change their methods. I'm sure Paypal is aware of this and will probably end up raising their rates given how dependant people are on it. If I know anything about bankers, it's that they love making money off us plebs.

Quote from: Microstockphoto on February 04, 2017, 05:17
you get paid 2 months late every time, missing out on interest, plus you have to cash the  checks as well, costing you time and probably petrol, plus you have to invest time to manage multiple payment streams, you will have more layers in your administration, all adding cost, which you dont consider.

i think if you properly calculate all the cost of receiving  checks, you will probably find that the cost are higher than using paypal,

not sure how that works for your principals, you want to incur higher cost, because paypal is too expensive, doesnt make sense. you cut of your nose to spite your face. paypal is a widely accepted payment processor, making my life and business so much easier,

quick calculation shows you would probably lose out on 0.25% interest alone over your 100K, and surely you can deduct the paypal fees from your earnings in canada as well.

Oh sweet! Unsolicited financial advice on the internet. How did I get so lucky?

You don't get paid 2 months late every month, you are simply deferring payments. This can actually work in your favour if, say, your income was dropping in the next year (not unheard of in microstock terms). You could be deferring income to the next year when you will pay lower amount of income tax.

Cashing a cheque is easy. I often going to my bank anyway (I walk there, so no petrol or fuel costs), and these days you can send a photo of your cheque to the bank and they will process it. That takes no longer than processing a Paypal payment. It might even be faster because you don't have to look up rates to be sure Paypal is gouging you a full 4%!

"you will have more layers in your administration, all adding cost, which you dont consider."

Are you mental? Why would I not consider administrative costs? Well, to answer that "argument," no, I do factor in all admin costs, and they aren't that costly. I have 3 stock photo accounts. Two of which used to be funded through Paypal, and one via cheques. There is no real difference in time or energy or admin costs between the two, except for the much lower exchange rate that I get from processing cheques.

My bank actually offers me a +1.6% exchange rate, so that's a difference of 2%, or $2000 on every $100k earned, or 20k over a period of 10 years. It is VERY worth it for me, I just couldn't defer payments until recently.

"you want to incur higher cost, because paypal is too expensive, doesnt make sense. you cut of your nose to spite your face. paypal is a widely accepted payment processor, making my life and business so much easier"

Thanks for the advice, I'm glad that works for you, but stop projecting your ill informed advice towards me. Enjoy paying $1000's more to Paypal for a negligible convenience.

Quote from: Microstockphoto on February 04, 2017, 04:00
ranplett, just close your paypal account and see how you get on getting paid online, surely there are many options to get paid at lower fees using only one payment processor for all your income streams.  right?

or is paypal holding you hostage and forces you to use their product?

Why would I close my Paypal account?

I can set up cheque payments with my three income generating accounts, but they take time to release the cheque.

I've only recently set myself up financially to be able to not get paid for the two months so I can wait for a cheque to arrive and save about 1.6%. That's a $1600 savings for every $100k earned. This is during an era where Getty Images had deferred payments by 7 weeks.

Mind you, in Canada, if one were in such a tax bracket, they'd pay about $640 back to the gov't in tax, but I'd rather have that option, or be able to reinvest it then giving it to Paypal.

If it was only 3%, I probably wouldn't care, but since they squeeze just a little more, I don't mind messing up my whole accounting system as a matter of principle.

I loathe paypal for their exorbitant fees.

They seem to charge exactly 3.6% to convert USD > CAD. Someone mentioned they aren't adjusting their rates in real time, so yeah, you could get a slightly better rate. I believe their 3.6% is to compensate for that difference.

No financial institution wouldn't charge a currency conversion rate. If you are getting 2.5%, I'd be happy with that. Credit cards usually charge 3%.

If you are converting USD > CAD at 3.6% and then CAD > USD at 3%, like if you are visiting USA or driving through south to Mexico, you're literally losing 6.6% on the exchange rate. Brutal. I've had it where I get paid in USD > CAD at 3.6%, convert that to Kenyan Schillings (KES), for example, and there they want KES > USD, so you're looking at 9.6%. Brutal. I know there are options out there, but these things take a lot of effort to set up.

On the other hand, if I can get a cheque, the bank gives me a 2% rate, so a lot better. Say you earned $100k / year, you could save $1500 that way.

Also, not sure about your individual countries, but you should be able to writeoff the conversion loss as 'banking fees' or something to that effect. Mind you, I'm no accountant, so don't take my word for it.

Quote from: sharpshot on December 31, 2016, 19:54

Quote from: ranplett on December 31, 2016, 19:14
Wow! Sorry that this thread was trolled so badly and that I wasted so much time trying to get through the pointless banter.

Sounds interesting. I've always wanted to host my own database but any time I've tried Wordpress I just gave up because it always felt bloated.

What I'm primarily interested in is a clean, ultra search engine friendly site to host thumbnails / previews to drive customers to an agency using a referral code.

Anyone working towards a stronger photography community should be encouraged, not trolled.

Do you even know what a troll is?  I don't necessarily agree with everything some people throw at Leo but he doesn't deal with it well and overreacts.  If he genuinely considers this trolling, why would he keep feeding the troll?

Yes, I know what a troll is. If troll isn't the best word, then would you accept nagging? Or thread hijacking? Or unsolicited, pointless nonconstructive criticism? As for feeding trolls, I guess that's just human nature, hoping that eventually that person stops being lame and you can get the information you wanted sooner.

Wow! Sorry that this thread was trolled so badly and that I wasted so much time trying to get through the pointless banter.

Sounds interesting. I've always wanted to host my own database but any time I've tried Wordpress I just gave up because it always felt bloated.

What I'm primarily interested in is a clean, ultra search engine friendly site to host thumbnails / previews to drive customers to an agency using a referral code.

Anyone working towards a stronger photography community should be encouraged, not trolled.

A few years ago iStock sent out Christmas cards. They arrived in April and were sent to the wrong contributors. They did a recall, and three months later managed to get the cards to the correct contributors, but people were concerned that they received only a smaller portion of the original card, and some people were calling for an audit.

Quote from: pkphotos on December 11, 2015, 19:08
I think you'll find most people would be very satisfied with $1 per clip/month. I fall shot of that however I'm fairly sure I'm well above the average of what contributors make per clip/month. I have almost 4000 clips of large variety so have plenty of figures to go off.

Most people also take a quantity over quality approach. That usually doesn't end well.

Quote from: Sean Locke Photography on December 06, 2015, 04:43
One good one, or 1000 bad ones.

1000 bad clips could in fact get you one inadvertently good clip, so $500 for the one and $500 for the rest, which is still $1 / clip, which is horrible.

Quote from: sweetgirll on December 10, 2015, 19:20
I think he is just being smart making the most of his photos...

Making the most of his photos, absolutely. Being smart, no.

It's like rice, it's good if you are hungry and want 2000 of something.

While I understand why people would be bitter and upset here, to blame all of iStock's woes over the last 5 years on one person is pointless.

I think iStockphoto grew too fast for these Canadian folks, who really did want the best for everyone. Hence why they left the toxic corporate environment. 500PX and Stocksy are both based in Canada, and it appears that they are both doing well, including providing sense of community for artists and a more sustainable pricing strategy. They will probably continue to thrive.

I'm not going to name names, but it wasn't Kelly that originally promoted the idea that "it's not about the money." I still try to roll with that philosophy, and follow my passions which meant getting out of the studio. My bills are still being paid as an exclusive iStock photog. I was doing very well under the leadership of both Bruce and Kelly, so I could never throw either of them under the bus.

"I think the market will and is turning. Stocksy grew 600% this year"

Where did you read this? I couldn't find anything via internet search.

This thread has been a good read. Thanks for all the thoughtful responses!

Do any of you use uploading services that automatically upload at the flip of a switch? I'm exclusive to iStock so I'm not sure how it works, but I find it hard enough (dull enough) to upload just to one agency, let alone 12 - 13.

Quote from: Sean Locke Photography on May 02, 2015, 16:36Right.  I have no idea where I'd be today as an exclusive, because Agency from IS and Getty brought in a lot for me.  I'd probably be lower than I am right now as a non-exclusive with no IS.

I had a lot of V/A images, and last September, when they stopped selling higher priced images based on merit, execution and scarcity, I lost about 50% overnight. Then sub sales have been growing, accounting for about 10%. So getting the boot GI may have been a really nice blessing.

Wait, what? They are removing descriptions? Some of these changes are quite welcome, but removing the descriptions makes no sense. Show me a website that doesn't allow contributors to write up a small blurb about their product to inform and entice buyers? Just one more dehumanizing bad decision by GI. Way to go guys. Keep up the good work.

I'm not a member of Stocksy, primarily because I'm iStock exclusive. But two years of plummeting sales has me thinking about greener pastures. This is after 12 years of loyalty to iStock. I'm a big believer in what Stocksy is doing and I'm sure I could become a member because their philosophies regarding that fine line between art and business seem to be inline with my own. I prefer creating images in a very focused way with an emphasis on quality over quantity.

Yes, they are quite exclusive. One common complaint I've heard from my designer friends is that they love everything about Stocksy except they can't find the images they need. I also believe that Stocksy's management wants to keep their collection pristine and beautiful, which comes at the cost of limiting content. On the other hand, after witnessing iStock's stellar management for the first 10 years of it's existence, I do feel that they will find a better balance over time. Over 10 years, iStock grew from a freebie site, to invent microstock, and then find it's way to midstock which developed the perfect balance between high quality content and high volume of sales. They had a nice little niche and a lot of artists became successful. 

Does anyone here remember iStockPro? I think it was a failed experiment because it took iStock's focus away from who they really were and were really just mimicking the more traditional agencies out there. On the other hand, I believe that from a business growth perspective, Stocksy will open the doors a little wider in the future and even come up with a Stocksy-Lite version that will offer high quality generic stock at a more competitive price. That will act as a separate entity so it doesn't dilute their existing highly curated collection. But we may be talking 3-5 years here.

If any of us here felt like it was a good idea to start up an agency, we would have done it a long time ago before there was 44+ pre-existing agencies. Does anyone have a couple million dollars to invest in a startup agency? Probably not, and even then that would be a lot of work and a lot of risk. What we should be doing is supporting these guys at Stocksy and petitioning them to make a bigger play for generic imagery as well.

Quote from: loop on May 15, 2014, 12:38
Average day, taking in account he new normal after the subs introduction. A bit confusing, too, because they choose this day to began paying credit subscriptions delayed royalties pending from weeks, if not months, ago.

How bizarre that they chose to pay the delayed royalties then.. looking at my charts, I actually got less income than I thought. Why this day? Were they trying to pad the stats to make it look like we are earning more?? So lame.

Quote from: gillian on May 11, 2014, 11:03
I don't understand how being exclusive works so well anymore. sure you may be placed higher in the search, but thanks to the price sliders buyers can simply remove your stuff and still have cheap and high quality offerings.

Gillian, exclusivity only works if there is a dominant industry leader, which iStock was when it was under good management (up until 2011). I've been with the agency for 12 years, and have amassed about 300,000 sales, but iStock needs to perform an extremely dramatic turnaround if I'm going to maintain my exclusivity in 2014 / 2015. At this point, I'm sure a lot of artists, myself included, are just riding out the last little bit of sales and looking forward to a more healthier way of marketing our work.

Quote from: BrianM on September 16, 2013, 22:29
However, and here's the real kicker, my earnings growth at Stocksy is happening with a portfolio that's 1/10 the size of my port at iStock! In terms of RPI/month, Stocksy is already besting my best ever exclusive months at iStock.

That's good news Brian. How many photos do you think you would need based on that RPI to match estimated iS earnings if you were still exclusive? I know it's tough to gauge.

QuoteBesides, money isn't everything, right?

Hah!

The thing that gets me all gushy inside is that there is a sense of excitement and a sense of potential that many of us experienced 8 - 10 years ago with iStock. That is the kind of energy that will push photographers to new heights, and the same energy that GI head office thinks they need to suppress.

.Bravo.

Wonder how many $M (coming out of our pockets) they paid for these changes?

Quote from: jsnover on January 18, 2013, 20:42
Given that for me - and I think many/most of us - the primary goal is to produce work we can license, I'm not inclined to spend more time than necessary on other tasks.

Agreed. I was thinking of a much more simple tumblr account or something that everyone can look upon to see the quality of work that has been deactivated.

A visual approach is clearly the best.

Has anyone thought of setting up a tumblr site to catalog some of the best deactivated files? That would give everyone a decent visual representation of what's going on, and could be really powerful.

I've got black diamond status, but it doesn't really mean much these. Gold members can easily outsell black diamonds. The canister program is now out of date and for the most part irrelevant.

Actual sales figures are a different story, and by the look of it, it looks like this month could be 20 - 25% less in sales then expected. That is a lot. I try not to complain. Last year my sales dropped in October by 20% and that was the first time ever. Prior to that, I always saw constant growth. So I was a little bummed out, but 2011 looked to be recovering. Not anymore.

My guess has always been that declining sales was a result of overly aggressive pricing for Agency files (250 credits) and Vetta files (150 credits). This suggests that iStock has lost sight of it's values as being a simple, good value image market.

Also, more recently, and this was based on the survey results (obviously), the newer files were given more room up front in the searches. This hurt a lot of seasoned artists and benefitted the newer ones. But now, even the newer artists are suffering from less sales.

I'm really curious to see how the management will respond...