With all this in mind, I can't wait for the first homosexual man or woman to object to having his photographs used to promote a heterosexual event, club, or ad. Now that will be interesting to see how misrepresentation laws are going to tackle it.

Quote from: BelieveInStock on May 10, 2015, 10:06

Quote from: Dragomir Nikolov on May 09, 2015, 19:34
Yep, Symbiostock was a BIG waste of time. I am curious why Leo begin new project for illustrators. Is it the same plan to make a platform , to sell some theme and then to abandon the project? I had a symbiostock site, upgraded theme for nothing!

100% agree.

Leo now creates a pseudo elite closed platform for illustrators (forgetting about dozens of photographers who paid $100 for Pro plugin and other stuff). What will be next when Leo abandons this project ? Vrfx - a platform only for videographers ?

As far as selling direct goes - I am getting way better money without having the store, cart, set-up prices etc on my website. I have just a beautiful gallery with clear information that if someone is interested in licensing my picture they can just contact me. Then the money I get from a single picture usually vary from $100 to $1000 (it comes with with nice personal contact or even a new business partnership). I recommend zenfolio, smugmug, squarespace and many more professional and solid companies - just the opposite of symbiostock, grfx and derivatives.

admin edit - modified for content.

Leo has not created an pseudo elite closed platform and he has not abandoned the old theme. Your money has not been wasted either. Leo has made a post on his new board about your pro plug ins.

Grfx can sell anything that you can upload. Robin and Leo have an agreement as far as hosting goes. Robin will host photographers and Leo will host illustrators. What you sell on your own site, and with which plug in is your choice.

Well, one thing is for certain. I may not approve of Leo's actions, but I do know him after working with SymbioStock. Robin, I know nothing about you, so you will understand I am not rushing forward into your flock. If anything, I am doing nothing right now.

Perhaps the two of you can remember WHY SymbioStock came into being. We, the sites holding the hot potato, might have to remind you after all ....

I have nothing new to add. Jo Ann and Ron have said all I would have said myself. I have a line that I often use: Trust is always at its strongest just before it gets broken.

When you have something to tell us, come back and we will tell you if we are interested or not. You had our attention and you kicked the whole lot of us in the teeth.

Jo

Quote from: cascoly on July 06, 2014, 19:05one problem has been solved -- i'll be hosting the forums once I work with leo to get everything transferred.   so we'll have all the tutorials and faqs that many have contributed to over the last year.

Oh, and I know you don't hear it very often, thanks for your contribution to SymbioStock.

Jo

Please excuse all my typos, I worked until three in the morning and the edit button is doing nothing ....

Jo

Quote from: chromaco on July 06, 2014, 13:53
Symbiostock has run it's course and no one/everyone is to blame. Hopefully people have been paying attention and have learned from the mistakes. If so the next idea will be better and we will all benefit.

Call me crazy, I take ownership of that, but I don't think it has even begun to run it's course. It's had it's rug jerked from under it. SymbioStock is NOT a failure. It is just not yet matured. It may never now because of decisions taken that affect all of us, but that we are powerless to change.

The mistake was in thinking that SymbioStock was going to compete with iAnySite. It could not ever do so. It could, however, give you your own power back. I finally got my own site. I haven't made money, but I have my wish fulfilled. In the future, when I have the time to spare, I am going back to grow my site that has been dormant for a while now.


Jo

Quote from: chromaco on July 06, 2014, 05:11
Multiple times in the last six months I have proposed various ideas to help make this program viable for Leo. Many of them were very reasonable and nearly all of them wound up killing the thread. The ones that didn't turned into "what about me" comments.

To be honest, and in all fairness, what might seem reasonable to you may not appeal to other people. You worked very hard for SymbioStock, but I too made practical suggestions only to be ridiculed. My suggestions were even more simply and cost effective. Only the ones I made privately to Leo were implemented. The rest were ignored. This is not about my own ego. This is about watching a wonderful idea being mismanaged. That is sad.

In the latest 'take over' of the SymbioStock forums, most of the regulars felt ignored, and we started staying away. I did support by purchasing the premium and I would have bought more if they were released as modules for purchase. Instead I landed up paying for two when one was already included in the other.

It is not just the people who bitched that killed SymbioStock. Erratic and sweeping changes, and the several shut downs made us all wary. I am not afraid of change and with every update I immediately did so without waiting to see if other people had problems.

I'm sorry, but I am tired of taking the blame as the SymbioStock collective. I am still in there, and I am still part of the community, fragmented as it is now. Those of you that pulled out, well ... need I say more? Again, I'm sorry, but this has to be said. The blame CANNOT be laid at those of us who invested not only money, but time daily to help out on the forum.

SymbioStock is NOT a failure but it has also not been managed very well. When everyone can accept their part in the blame, perhaps we can all stop complaining and move forward. The main challenge facing SymbioStock is that everyone was in a hurry. No one waited long enough for success. Perhaps I am a fool, but I think I will wait a little bit longer ....

Jo

Quote from: Magnetic on July 05, 2014, 19:28I'm getting out of microstock.

SymbioStock will work well for Macro stock. That is where I think I am headed when I take a break from writing. I don't agree with all your decisions, but I do hope you will keep the theme updated so it will continue to work with newer versions of WordPress, and let us know. I would appreciate that very much.

Thanks for everything, Leo. There are many sides to this story. I'm still glad I have gone this route and I hope you don't turn your back on SymbioStock completely.

All the best!

Jo

Quote from: cathyslife stockphotos.com on February 26, 2014, 13:06
Theres no shortage of troops to come in with the minuses, thats for sure! As for actually doing something constructive for the project, its much easier to blame someone else than to actually give up ones time or money to help out. 

Cathy, I'm afraid you have really talked yourself out of the credibility of "actually doing something constructive". I'm beginning to suspect you really like the drama, and at any cost. We get it, you think SymbioStock is a failure. So come up with a solution because the minuses on your posts indicate people are tired of hearing the same old vitriol. Yes, when you post without thinking, I WILL vote your post down. Fortunately for your minuses I don't come here very often.

So I get your message. There is no need to keep on ....

Speaking only for myself I don't believe the project is dead. Leo has been saying for some time now that he needs to get back to his own life. He also said that he would work on the project until it reached a stable version. To me this isn't news but I was surprised by the board being closed and moved here though.

I don't think this is the end but rather just a time to get on with our lives and build our sites.


Jo

I'm away from all of this for two or three months to finish publishing a book and I come back to all of this! I'm not going to add fuel to the fire but I am going to add my opinion. If you choose to disagree with it, go right ahead, but I am not going to reply.

Firstly, let me say I am not bashing anyone or kissing up to anyone either. So if you take offense to anything I am about to say, you are just looking to stir and this pot has its lid on tightly!

Let's get to the facts shall we? One person, whom we shall for argument sake call "Leo", sits down to write software to benefit everyone who makes use of it, gives it away for free (other than a few plugins that you DON'T have to buy), largely gives up his livelihood to doggedly stick with this project, puts up with all the negativity, and some people have an issue with this? How much of a discount can you expect on FREE? These are the facts. Put whatever spin you want on it.

Yes, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but unless it is well-informed, and based on easily digestible fact, no one will take you seriously on purely negative opinions. So here is my opinion on SymbioStock: I've not sold a single file YET, and yet ... I have not only high hopes but extensive plans for my site in the future. I just haven't had enough time thus far. I've decided to make a life out of being an author and it takes a lot of my time.

If Leo ever actually makes a profit from SymbioStock it will takes years before he sees any financial reward from it. This is also fact. If you don't know these facts then you are ignorant. There is no polite way to put it. Go inform yourself on the facts before arguing.

As with any business, it takes time to grow and to mature into a well-known and respected brand. Anyone who believes they will put up three pictures of their hamster and by morning they will have exceeded the profits of an existing agency is a fool. No such promise has ever been made by anyone associated with SymbioStock.

What you actually get is a platform for YOU to build YOUR own business and for YOU to promote and grow it! If you have no customers, I'm afraid that SymbioStock is not going to be much help in finding you any unless you are prepared to work hard and learn. I'm finding that the people who have the most negative opinions are those that have contributed the least and have yet expected the most.

Let me recap: you pretty much invest only in hosting and time and what you do with your site and your skills is of your own making. In many ways some not even related directly to photography, I am extremely grateful to the experience and knowledge I have gained by using SymbioStock. Then again, I WANTED to learn and that always makes the difference in the outcome.

There is an old saying (that probably doesn't translate well into English) that a poor dancer blames his performance on a crooked dance floor.

Jo

Correction! Your site looks good for anyone (with ot without experience) who just started!

Jo

Quote from: noodle on October 30, 2013, 22:15
Thx bro I will check on that tomorrow - the bottom half of my landing page is still a mess - thats tomorrow afternoon project.

I think it's coming along just fine for someone who has no experience with all this!

Jo

Quote from: Grafix04 on October 27, 2013, 01:34
Does anyone here have or know of any existing RM or RM/RF mixed Symbio site that I can check out?

Yes, my site. It now has both Standard/Extended and RM. My standard Licence is similar to RF because those images were originally pimped out to all the agencies as RF. I didn't want to call it Royalty Free so it's the Standard licence which is similar but not as free.

It can be created by using Leo's Premium Plugin. The licence system is being changed as we type but you can have different licences. I have four different types.

Quote from: noodle on October 26, 2013, 13:24
All these threads on Syms growth and early success makes me want to try and do it myself - the only thing holding me back is my own lack of knowledge and confidence, you see, I am totally intimidated by anything to do with computer programming, seo (yikes), and all that kind of stuff.

However, I am motivated to at least give it a try.

Question:  Does anyone use HostGator for there website? Is this good service or is there a better one?

Any direction is extremely appreciated.
Modify message

Firstly, everyone's experience is largely singular and anyone who finds fault with a system provided for free with on-going development is being unreasonable.

Is it easy to install and start up a site? Yes, with a few complicated bits depending on your understanding. If you get stuck, someone will try to help you troubleshoot. Largely it is just someone pointing you in the right direction or to the correct option on your WordPress.

Does it take work? DEFINITELY! There are no elves to do the work for you. You are starting out with your own site and business. From actual sign up with a host to a working site can literally be done in a day or two IF you spend time on it.

Do you need experience in HTML/CSS/PHP? No you don't. This is a ready to run template. As a template it tries to be flexible and allow you some customising without any code knowledge. If you want to make bigger changes that the base template allows then you must either have some knowledge of the code used or be willing to go research it online.

I used BlueHost because it was recommended and I wanted to minimise complications. I would without reservation recommend people with limited experience with the web and code to just go with BlueHost. I don't know other Hosts by I find BlueHost a decent host. I know some folks are expecting miracles from affordable prices.

Avoid spreading out your potential problems. Get your domain, hosting, and set up all in one place if you are concerned with your lack of knowledge. Why set yourself up with different bits all over the web with different hosts. Unless you are an expert, keep it consolidated and simple.

BlueHost has one click installs and within seconds you have WordPress set up. This was the first time I had ANY interaction with WordPress. While I do have knowledge in designing basic HTML/CSS I can actually tell you that you don't need it to get a site up and working.

I wouldn't tick any of the options on BlueHost except perhaps Domain Whois Privacy if it is important to you. As mentioned before, none of those options are needed and are provided by the theme or one of the paid plugins by Leo. I'm not in the mood to spend my days tweaking SEO settings. I got some of the Premium plugins to go with my set up and so far so good.

On a beta note, my site runs the current version which is under development but is nearly on its final release. It is largely bug free. Bugs are not the same as things requiring changes or improvement. I can honestly say that the beta version is almost bug free. That is to say I am not finding any to stop you from trading.

It is also unreasonable to expect the theme to work on every possible variation as some are asking. NO WEBSITE does unless there is a host of site developers that write multiple versions for every platform.

The theme works on EVERY BROWSER on the market and on my Android cell phone. I don't have a tablet or an iPad but ask yourself this; would you REALLY buy photography on a small device that isn't capable of running a decent browser the code requires to sell online? I wouldn't buy photography on a cell phone or a device with too small a screen and most buyers won't either.

If you follow the installation walkthrough you should get your site up and running without pulling too much hair. I recommend asking on the board before pulling your hair.

http://www.symbiostock.org/

Hair loss may vary from person to person


Jo

Essentially what most people want is an agency that takes no royalties and promotes your work tirelessly. We all know how likely this is come into being. Ask one simple question; "am I willing to dedicate my life and time so that others can join and benefit?" No? Then why should anyone else? If they do, however, support them and encourage them to keep at it in any way you can even if it is just remaining positive.

My feeling is that the people with good work will sell no matter where they go. Search engines index everything these days. I feel that what a lot of people are worried about is competition. It's unfair if person X sells more. Well, as harsh as it sounds, if person X has great work (or is a natural salesman) then why should he or she be held back so that mediocre work can sell?

When we go back to the agency model we are always hearing about how some people start selling more and others sell less and how good or bad this is. You cannot please everyone and if you seriously think the agencies care if you like it or not then... here... have a needle for your bubble! Most business, sadly, is built on greed and not community. That is why Stock agencies have billionaires and we get peanuts tossed through the monkey bars. I don't think any of us like that model.

We, as professionals, need to change our negative tune we sing far too often. If someone achieves success (ethically) be glad and learn from them. IF you are not going anywhere fast then you must stop and ask the difficult questions so you can learn WHY not!.

We have a huge supply and not enough demand that wants to pay. The reality is that either you can deliver the goods or you can't/don't/won't. Price is also an issue. If you want to set higher prices to try to move the market back to a fair place then be prepared to know that some clients will go where the grass is * cheap or free. You will never convince that market to change. So look upwards to a market that will value your work. If you cannot find that market then a career change is in order.

I think the challenge is that the last decade started out with insane revenue for a few select members that got on board early but that ship has sailed! Mourn, wear black, wave the hanky, and move on. That ship is unlikely to come back to port. No one will agree and collectively pull the rug from under the agencies. We have that power but it's always about me, myself, and I. So that ship is also unlikely to come to port.

Now we are left with a new model that SymbioStock is based on. Your work does as well as it can depending on the quality, price, and the amount of effort you put in. There is no free lunch which is why we are being squeezed and shafted by the agencies. www.iSHAFTcontributers.com

Jo

Quote from: heywoody on October 10, 2013, 22:52

This is exactly right though.  One of the reasons for the success of the crowd sourced model is the fact that there is zero investment needed other than producing product and they would be doing photos or whatever anyway (the type of photos probably changes as they realise what sells and doesn't).  Successful startups need entrepreneurs and investment.  I hope Leo is making some money from symbio  because it's important that the guy with the vision stays involved.

We keep Leo on a leash and toss scraps at him to keep him happy! On a serious note, IT DOES work because someone like Leo HAS stuck with it. Some of us support him and try to help out with ideas, suggestions, and help others with answers we happen to know so he can get on with his work.

So I try to do my bit to help out because Leo cannot do everything and he largely does it for free! I want him to stay involved! Without him, development will dwindle because most of us do not have his knowledge and no one else who does has stepped up to help yet!

Quote from: djpadavona on October 10, 2013, 23:08
Fair enough. Could you please provide an example on MSG where members are bashing Symbiostock?

Honestly, I don't have the time to go through 1000s of posts where people may call it buggy, or simply a pointless exercise, or it will never compete with iAgencies. We all know people are entitled to their opinion just as I may tire of hearing it. You just appear to be taking this personally even though it isn't. You are, however, more than welcome to do your own research into the matter and prove me wrong.

If you feel that my "Bashing" line is out of order, then feel free to continue the discussion without me. If you feel that it is too harsh then my apologies. I'm sorry that you do not agree with my evaluation of the issue but that is beyond my control and it is simply not worth getting into a squabble over.

I really do have other things that require my attention. I feel that I have made myself clear enough and my time can be better spent elsewhere... oh let's see like... helping someone or if I had some time, taking photographs, or drawing up a new vector.


Jo

Quote from: djpadavona on October 10, 2013, 17:33

Quote from: JoRodrigues on October 10, 2013, 17:15
I'm tired of the Bash the Symbio over the head.

That seems a disingenuous description of identifying a potential bug or incompatibility. My site worked pretty well for about four months before I ran into BH or SY issues. I'm hardly bashing. Honestly I don't see anyone on MSG bashing this theme.

My apologies if it appeared I was singling you out. It was not my intention.

Quote from: cathyslife stockphotos.com on October 10, 2013, 18:06
...

But just because things go smoothly for one person, you cant make a blanket statement and say that everything is coming up roses for everyone. Its simply not true. People are being called names because they disagree and share their tales of problems.

Let the arguments continue... :-)

I was talking about my personal experience. I mentioned that right at the start of my post. I do not speak for anyone else. Experience is subjective and so is our interpretation.

I did say however, that where I did encounter a few problems — and some of them were my own fault — there was help on hand.

There is little to be gained by arguing. There is lots to be gained by sharing experience and knowledge.

Quote from: marthamarks on October 10, 2013, 18:36

Quote from: JoRodrigues on October 10, 2013, 17:15
So people want to know personal experiences with Symbiostock. Here is mine...

I'm happy to say: "Very nice job, Jo, and welcome to the network!"

Thank you very much!

So people want to know personal experiences with Symbiostock. Here is mine.

A week or two ago I decided it was time to investigate further. I'm not one to take people's word for what they know nothing about. Any bitchin' and complainin' didn't scare me off once I saw the potential in it. I asked some questions (right here on Microstock Group actually), I got some good answers, and I took the plunge. I didn't land in anything more than shallow, lukewarm water.

Is it hard to set up? No. It's not! I did go with Bluehost not because I have shares in the company. I did it to minimise complications on things I know very little about. Before my site I only knew that WordPress should be spelt with two words

After setting my site up I STILL don't know much about PHP and I even did a 2 day course years back. Am I brave? No, not really. I just played it on the safe side, went with the recommendations and to my surprise... one click setups did a lot of the work for me. I knew that Leo had knowledge about Bluehost and if there were any problems, I could turn to those that knew more than me, which at that point was everyone!

I am also running the beta version of Symbiostock. Shock! Horror! I'm lazy! I didn't want to redo my thingamawidgets and bobs when the beta went live! I understand if you WON'T stand up at the front of the row to get your beta testing badge but there is a stable version you can play safe with.

Shortly this Beta version will in fact be the "Final" version. Are there bugs with the Beta version? Yip! They are relatively small in my opinion. I've worked with Leo to squish some of them as have other members.

I can't tell you about sales as I'm only now ready to launch. I can tell you that 2 days after I registered with Bluehost, my domain was indexed with Google (much to my shock by not being ready and pleasant surprise) on the second page when I typed "Stock Image". Within 2 or 3 days 2 or 3 strangers found the site and registered.

Selling Stock is more about promotion and choosing the right domains and making sure you get indexed. It might sound a little harsh but if you don't make some sales through a setup like Symbiostock then the fault lies elsewhere. High prices, low visibility, Meta Tags not done adequately, etc.

You don't need to be a web developer to open up a Symbiostock site. You just need a little faith in your abilities as an artist. I'm there now and when I do know the answer to something, I'll provide it.

This is what you can set up with minimal knowledge after 5 days... http://stockyimage.com/

I only have images on the site that are currently available on iAgencies. The rest will take time. Your site will be as successful as the amount of faith and effort you put into it. There is a forum and we all help each other there.

Leo has a great setup help page that guides you step by step. The rest just ask in the forum! I did!

Hope this helps. I'm tired of the Bash the Symbio over the head. It might not be for everyone but I personally think it is a great platform that will go places. Set your destination.

I haven't been in the business of sell stock photography (not photography itself, just Stock) for all that long and my online portfolio is still at just under 250. This is the "testing" phase before I carry on (or not). I already have started with the Symbiostock route to see how that goes.

Alamy is kind of a favourite of mine because it was the first agency to accept me and has generally accepted a large part of my 250 images. Having said that, I have not sold ONE image on Alamy since I started in April

You could say my work is all crap or it is just not marketable. I do, however, sell regularly through 3 or 4 other agencies with no problem. One of them is iStock which surprised me.

I've also started with Vectors but telling me unless I have a huge portfolio you are not interested... that is a rather nasty backhand. I think I'll sell them elsewhere...

No, I'm not interested in waiting for 2014. I want to sell my vectors now, today, tomorrow, not next year. I Think you are making a very silly mistake.

Quote from: JPSDK on September 17, 2013, 21:02

Quote from: JoRodrigues on September 17, 2013, 20:47

Quote from: JPSDK on September 17, 2013, 20:28
Last time I posted in a symbiostock thread with the same initial question and asked some critical questions I got a bunch of angry villagers with pitchforks coming after me.

But I havent changed my mind:
Symbiostock is not very customer friendly, by means of licensing and prices.
There are huge security risks.
The chain is not stronger than the weakest link, meaning quality control.

..as someone said back then... the Symbiostock apple is not the pear you want it to be.
Thats right, it is not, there is too much anarchy as it is now.

What are the "huge security risks" then? What do you mean by "quality control"?

Thanks.

Security... It is probably just my overvivid imagination.
Quality control. Poor images will scare customers away. There are poor images in the network, how do they affect the network as a whole?

Ok, I understand what you are saying about quality. I'm not sure if it is too relevant if you are being indexed from Google directly. Still, when one considers how much junk is dumped on some of the Micro sites, I think I might actually stand a better chance as a newbie on the selling block though a system such as Symbiostock.

Security is always a risk I guess. With the Stock sites we just pray and hope that we get paid as we should be. At least with an independant site there is no confusion as to payments.

Quote from: Harvepino on September 17, 2013, 20:42

Quote from: JoRodrigues on September 17, 2013, 19:42
What exactly is that advantage? I'm not looking to fight with you. I'm looking for the positives. How does being part of a large group generate increased traffic for example. That is a common sales pitch but it is never broken down how it ACTUALLY helps a person.

As I have said, maybe we are missing the bigger picture. Currently I am seeing that without having some way to generate sales there is little point in signing up with Symbiostock or anyone for that matter.

Being indexed on Google and using Blogger helps to get you hits through searches. How does being part of Symbiostock help me as a startup store? If it doesn't help me then that is the reason why people are "Oh Hum" about it.

I'll try to answer this question by example. Lets say SYS network has 1,000,000 images at 1,000 sites... not unrealistic numbers if it keeps growing, I think. Some of the 1,000 SYS sites should certainly have fairly good Google rankings. And than you decide to join SYS and upload your pictures. You are newcomer, so your Google ranking is poor. Customers wouldn't find you, you wouldn't sell anything if not part of the network. But you are on the SYS network and lets say you have many good photos of puppy dogs. A customer is searching for a puppy dog on one of the better established websites on the network. Because you are on the network, in spite of your poor Google ranking, your puppy images will pop up right in front of the eyes of potential customer and you can get a sale. Is this a convincing positive of Symbiostock as a startup store? 

Moreover, there is an advantage of joining early. By the time SYS start attracting lots of buyers, you'll have good Google rankings, established links, etc... and so more chances to sell.

Thanks for this info! Simple, easy to understand, and spot on!

Quote from: JPSDK on September 17, 2013, 20:28
Last time I posted in a symbiostock thread with the same initial question and asked some critical questions I got a bunch of angry villagers with pitchforks coming after me.

But I havent changed my mind:
Symbiostock is not very customer friendly, by means of licensing and prices.
There are huge security risks.
The chain is not stronger than the weakest link, meaning quality control.

..as someone said back then... the Symbiostock apple is not the pear you want it to be.
Thats right, it is not, there is too much anarchy as it is now.

What are the "huge security risks" then? What do you mean by "quality control"?

Thanks.