Quote from: Zero Talent on April 29, 2018, 22:04
These are not pros, but attention seekers.

It's not for you to decide whether or not I'm a professional photo/videographer.  My clientele and the fact that I make all of my income doing a combination of stock and other photo/video work determines whether or not I'm a professional. 

Quote from: Zero Talent on April 29, 2018, 16:36
Being on the front page of the most popular SS photos is much more valuable than any "explore" badge, you seem to be very proud of.

Of course you're not wrong!  I'd much rather make money than earn likes.  However, exposure is exposure... And I hope that you can acknowledge there are points to be made on that side of the argument (see my previous posts in this thread, I layout a variety of reasons why Flickr proves useful to my work), just as I understand the desire to always be paid in full for my work.  Stolen images online are the least of my being-stiffed-for-work problems, I've run into payment issues in real life with in-the-flesh clients!  And I can only imagine the viewpoint of those who've been in the industry longer than I (~7 years), where they may know full well how much work value has dramatically decreased.  I just feel like like you're being very aggressive and insulting to those with different opinions... And I also think that whether you like it or not, the industry is obviously very different today than 10, 20 or more years ago.  We all just have to roll with that and adapt, complaining doesn't do much good.

Quote from: Sammy the Cat on April 29, 2018, 19:31
Sorry Sam[...]

'preciate it.  I just so often feel a lot of hostility online, I try to be careful and know I'm not perfect, but at the same time, I'll always defend myself.  Especially in a setting where we're kinda all in this together and sort of here to benefit each other.

Quote from: Sammy the Cat on April 29, 2018, 04:19
I love it when in modern parlance "hate" is used to substitute for the word "criticism"

Sorry to say Sam but you won't be a faithful Flickrer you'll have to be a Smug Mugger

Yeah, in modern use, "hate" and "critique" can be synonyms: so what?  I feel like this quote was meant to disrespect my use of language, and notice how the first two things you mention were insignificant to the larger conversation here?  By discrediting my language skills and making these silly "corrections," I feel like anything you go on to say carries that lack of respect for my point of view (and I make 100% of my living in photo/video, so by no means am I not a "professional" as you seem to later suggest).  So I just want to point out how I took your response to my comment.  I felt invalidated and discredited without a thought for my well-explained opinion.

Also, to bring back my earlier point: image theft in the modern industry is not just common, it's to be expected!

Quote from: ShadySue on April 29, 2018, 12:45it will still happen, [even] stolen watermarked from stock sites.

Obviously, SammyCat, what you came across that day is disgusting, and I wouldn't wish that on anyone.  I feel for you, the internet is a largely disgusting place, and people stealing work with that sort of intention is reprehensible. 

Still, keep in mind, when someone posting an ad online or on a billboard next to the highway wants your image, they're going through the proper channels, and pay for it!

Why can't we photographers accept that the business is changing like artists in the film and music industries?  I think we can do better to just embrace the fact that our work is being stolen, used, and shared without credit and for free and be confident in the fact that when our work needs to be purchased and shown with context and the correct credit, it will be!

Quote from: Sammy the Cat on April 29, 2018, 04:19
[...]closed the account left all the dumb "Great capture" and "Woo Yay" wanna be pro photog BS never looked back

Now, I understand that this is generally useless, but I've had conversations in comments on my work, and others, on Flickr about wide ranging things such as location access, client protocol, timelapse settings, all of which have benefited my work in ways outside of getting paid.

Of course, I'm not saying that anyone needs to be on Flickr, or any other sharing platform that doesn't do anything to explicitly sell content.  But, what I am saying, and I strongly feel valid about, is that these social media sites do offer other things to professional photo/videographers that we don't get elsewhere.

I often hear a lot of hate on Flickr and that it seems to be dying.  Maybe, I dunno.  Personally, I have a pretty good relationship with Flickr, and here's why I like it:
-photography focused and participatory crowd.  I'm posting 2-6 times weekly, and receive feedback, occasionally more than just "nice photo," even.
-well organized and navigable site.  Albums, groups, great tags/tagged locations, and findable EXIF make Flickr my favorite location scout accomplice.  I find it easier to scout spots I haven't seen on Flickr than Google, 500px, Shutterstock, or Instagram.
-1TB cloud storage.  Not that this is something hard to find, but it's another nice failsafe for final edits of .jpgs and .mp4s
-becoming more sales friendly! For awhile Flickr wouldn't even let you link to a Shutterstock page in descriptions, that's long gone.  And though I can't specifically attribute Flickr to sales, I have been messaged about images and clips and have shared ways in which to purchase my content.
-better exposure system than other landing pages for specifically photography based social media.  I've been "explored" a handful of times, and again, I'm not sure that attributes directly to sales, but it's better free promo for my work than Shutterstock, Pond5, Videoblocks, Society6, FineArtAmerica, ViewBug, Youtube, 500PX, Instagram, and Twitter (all my accounts) have ever done combined.  So there's that.
-It's super easy to share from Flickr to other sites.  I use Flickr as my base for sharing to Instagram and Twitter and it's easier going from Flickr than other sites I use.

Finally, I want to just want to respond to something else I hear about Flickr and share a different perspective than I often hear.  I hear complaints about Flickr because "people steal my images," and I know that Flickr does have a setting that will allow any user, even those without accounts I think, download an image.  First of all, there are ways to lock images from that feature.  Second of all (and I think this part of my argument is probably more important here), in any creative industry, people will find ways to steal your work.  And yes, sharing online does make theft easier, and yes, our image is our product and should be valued and protected.  However, I don't turn the download image feature on Flickr off because I think that everyone should have ready access to content.  I also think that like in the film and music industries, the compromise of putting my work in front of more people while losing out on a few small sales is worth it just for potential exposure and sharing of my work.  I got into the production of images because I'm passionate about it and if my work is resonating with others, I think that my work should be accessible!  Anyway, the advertisers, marketers, filmmakers, and newspapers who want your work will still be paying for the appropriate licenses through the correct channels.  I think photographers can take a lesson from musicians here.

Anyway, check out my work, and if you like it, you can download it here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/samwagnerphotography/
or if you're the type who pays for albums, check me out here: https://www.shutterstock.com/g/samwagnerphotography?language=en

And I'll continue to be a faithful Flickrer!

still no good here USA, that's well over 24hrs

Quote from: Dreamframer on October 19, 2016, 23:27

Quote from: samwagner10 on October 19, 2016, 23:22
can't get my ftp uploader to work. Minnesota, USA

Me neither, that's why I came here to check if anybody else has the same problem. I've used web based uploader today. That one works...

for photos, at least, i'm waiting on lots of timelapse, tho

can't get my ftp uploader to work. Minnesota, USA

I rarely have clips/timelapses rejected, but have noticed much slower review time.  Maybe time to focus on p5 tags (though last batch took over 2 months!)...

You're hitting on a lot of common experience with your articles, which is great!

I think the biggest thing you're saying well here is: "swallow your ego, listen to and learn from the harsh feedback"

Which is a tough thing to do, whether it's about getting better at photography or basketball or cooking meals.

In defense of Flickr and 500px:  Though it's a fun time waste to scroll though and fav stuff between uploads, these social media sites can be channels for giving and taking feedback:
1. There are groups on flickr for strictly for harsh critiques. 
2. It's a great way for me to see my friends' work immediately, so as to be ready to have conversations about the shots next time I see them in person.
3. Location scouting.  I can see a variety of images from an upcoming location and critique others' work so I know how to do better/what to do differently when I'm at a certain spot.
4. Not only with my local friends, but I also make online friends who give me good critique, and respect my opinion when I look at and comment on their stuff.
5. If you do a little tagging and describing, you've got a good base to copy from and paste to description fields and keyword fields in stock upload pages.

So, if used intelligently, Flickr and other photo social media sites can be of great value specifically to my microstock photography skill set.

I still agree that we should be our own harshest critics, though.

Well, we've learned here is that taste, style, and needs are personal and different for everyone, go figure.

For what it's worth, the shot got Explored on Flickr!  Still no luck on SS.

Sometimes I've found that waiting a week or two helps, maybe you get a different reviewer.

Thanks for the input, ya'll.

Wow, commenting on this site is goofy as hell, my comment keeps deleting words when I save?

whoops double post

Great overview, thanks for sharing your experience, seeing stuff like this is really helpful for newbies.

At this point, uploading 50/month, you're not at this full time I imagine?

I'm amidst year 2 for myself, my year 1 goal was 100 (I do timelapse/video in addition to photo), end of 2016 I'm aiming for 500 total, I'm at about 425.  I was thinking if by end of year 3, I could reach 1500, then I could have a solid library base and dive in full time.

If working full time, my aim would be to produce about 30 images+timelapse+video clips/week.  That way I would be producing about 1500/year.

Do you have intentions of shooting microstock full time?  If you were to, what would be your weekly/monthly/yearly goals?  Do you only shoot photo, or do you also do video, timelapse, sounds, or graphics?  Do any of us here do stock audio or graphics?  Are those other pursuits worth doing? 

I do okay with landscapes, I'd say my cityscapes sell more often, though.  Aurora landscapes seem to do very well, immediate sales with my most recent batch.  Unique light and scenery seems important.  My Lake Superior stuff does much better than my other MN/WI landscapes.  Video is hot, and definitely the focus of my work. I definitely sell more timelapses than video clips or stills, but I shoot more timelapses than video clips.  4K sells much less often than HD, I think HD is still king, but hey, if I can shoot/upload both, it's better.  I do occasionally sell a 4k timelapse.  The best part about video is that you make exponentially more per sale than photo!  Most of the time, I should say.  I have sold photos for $30, and videos for as little as $5, but most of my video sales are $20-30, whereas most of my photos are $0.33-5.

Getting frustrated with SS reviews.  Was particularly happy with this image:


full size: https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8154/29761391746_e5438652f9_o.jpg

Rejected 2x by SS (within 30 seconds both times, is this a bot review?) for focus (1x) and noise (1x).  5dii, 300mm, 1/60, f5.0, 2500iso, RAW.  Noise reduction at about 45 in LR.

I could see it being slightly soft at f5 and 1/60th, maybe a slight breeze caught it?

This was a timelapse, so my next attempt will be taking an adjacent image, applying the same corrections, and resubmitting.

Interested in anyone's thoughts on the matter.

Also, a general portfolio critique, if anyone has the time.  I'm in my second year of shooting in my personal time, trying to build a library of cityscape and landscape stills, videos, and timelapses for a base of full time self employed operation in the near future.

At what point did you go full time? How large was your library? How much were you making/month?  I think if by the end of year 3 (2017) that I have 1500 clips/images, I could quit the day job and go full time.  Thoughts?

footage: http://www.shutterstock.com/video/gallery/1421029/
image: https://www.shutterstock.com/g/Sam+Wagner

Was a very slow summer (my 2nd summer in stock photo/video), September has picked up with more timelapse sales and photo sales than previous months.

Use your friends-pay them in beer!

Actually, I like this method, you'll often get something you otherwise wouldn't.  For example, I asked grandma nicely if she'd make lemon bars for a stock video project, she was happy to!  Don't think I'd find that actor or set otherwise.  Friends and family will be more comfortable and have more fun working with you than hired help, too.

I think the end user most often wants a ready to use clip.  So when I shoot flat, I like to add a bit of contrast and correct my white balance at the very least.  Same as if there is a camera shake, I try to cut or, if minor, smooth it out.

Mostly a Shutterstock user, they don't like that, just the word once, "green" "tomato," extra or unnecessary plurals and combos will just be seen as redundant and automatically deleted.  That in mind, I try to tag each thing with 35-45 tags, especially video or timelapse, photos I generally use fewer.

I do something similar, I try to maintain a twitter page https://twitter.com/MicroStockVideo that I use solely for promotion.  On this twitter, I tweet direct links to photos and videos I sell with any relevant tags/info, hoping to make it as findable as possible.  I don't necessarily think that people are going to places like twitter or flickr (which doesn't allow any sort of promotion for profit, actually) or instagram, etc.  I DO, however, think it is worthwhile to have these social media sites because they will then more likely appear in google searches, and if your tweet takes people directly to your stock pages, then you're just making your work more findable to searchers outside of the stock sites.

I'm fairly new to the microstock world, my libraries are still only just growing (~400, mostly timelapse, some video, some photo), so this twitter is also very new, and I don't really have any way of gauging how it helps my sales, but I'm doing it anyway.