Quote from: Brasilnut on January 28, 2018, 15:59
^^^

I'm not sure about 4C since I decided to join RH and never looked back. They have a large distribution channel (80 or so), much bigger than 4C, even if would get much higher commissions.

Following is my experience with RH after about a year.

Pros:
- large distribution channel (see above)
- personalized blog posts about travels. I've had one post about my trip to UAE and numerous cover features. Obviously doesn't be guarantee sales but certainly helps.
- more visibility, such as when new images are accepted bio appears on main contributor page
- submission is painless and no need for keywording, Just caption and location.
- you can choose to license all RM if u wish
- they accept editorials
- tight edits (80% rejection rate on average) so they obviously only letting premium images in which is a plus
- one to one with photo editor. I've got many tips.

Cons:
- low commission at 30%, same as Alamy via distribution. I feel that for exclusivity this is too low.
- takes ages to get sales reports from distributors (I'm waiting for 7 images which I've spotted via google reverse)
- exclusivity (the biggest downside imo). This includes "similars".

----

Hope that's helpful.

Alex

Thanks a lot Alex !  I'm in touch with RH so fingers crossed

Quote from: Brasilnut on January 27, 2018, 10:42

QuoteI didn't think my style would suit, landscapes and travel in mostly Asia, and I had noticed a distinct lack of Asian locations in their library and a very pastel palette to their landscapes too. However the speed of their response was exemplary.

Did you get a chance to apply to Robert Harding and/or 4Corners? I would recommend them for your types of images.

I've gone over their sites again and they both look like very good matches for my work - very good advice, thanks !  However since both require exclusivity would you have any advice as to who to apply to first (in terms of monetary returns / reputation / size of agency etc.) ? RH pay out 30% and 4C pay 50% however obviously if RH are much larger (and I notice they now also supply to Adobe Premium) then more sales would be preferable to a higher commission.

Cheers !
Kevin

Quote from: Brasilnut on January 27, 2018, 10:42

QuoteI didn't think my style would suit, landscapes and travel in mostly Asia, and I had noticed a distinct lack of Asian locations in their library and a very pastel palette to their landscapes too. However the speed of their response was exemplary.

Did you get a chance to apply to Robert Harding and/or 4Corners? I would recommend them for your types of images.

Thanks ! I did look at them but didn't apply - I will do now, I was sort of waiting on Stocksy since they require exclusivity.  I have a ton of new photos from the Tibetan Plateau this past December and will be hiking Kyrgyzstan for a month this late Spring.

Cheers !
Kevin

Quote from: angelawaye on January 26, 2018, 02:31
Good article and it is true we need to push ourselves more and more everyday.

But I couldn't help but notice the editor had told him why he was rejected in a "follow up" email:

"That follow up email she sent became the final lessons I learned in this process. ... she was able to give me some great feedback about why I was rejected and you know what? It wasn't because I sucked as a photographer or had submitted horrible images. ... They just had too much of the subject matter I had submitted and encouraged me to re-submit, PLUS they showed me that I already have the style of work they are looking for on my own website!"

I wish we could all get that kind of feedback ... I don't want to waste their time in the future with another application.

Having read through the article ....  just a thought.  The editor that 'replied', in effect, to his tweet says the rejection was not based on his tweet. However clearly they are monitoring social media activity, so I wonder if that is a contributory selection factor ? Since 4 months seems to be the 'standard' waiting time it could be they are also monitoring, and viewing positively, social media activity ? One way of deciding between multiple artists that would otherwise all 'qualify' based on their work alone ? Wild left field theory perhaps

Quote from: Sean Locke Photography on January 26, 2018, 00:39
Sorry for the rejections, but thank you for taking them in pretty good spirits.  Our open spaces are at a minimum right now, so they're definitely looking for specific things (I have no hand in the process).

Here's a post about what positive things you can take from the process: https://dszweduik.wordpress.com/2018/01/17/stocksy-united-rejected-me-what-i-learned-from-the-experience/

Thanks for the link.

The process is really far too slow though, as I'm sure you're aware by now. After my rejection letter I sent an email with a couple of questions to Trevillion (which they encourage you to do on their site) before submitting an application, I included a link to my repository on SmugMug. I had a reply within 24 hours saying : Unfortunately, I regret to inform you that we do not feel that your submission is quite right for our Library at this time. However, if you want to submit any of your future work, we would gladly consider it.

I didn't think my style would suit, landscapes and travel in mostly Asia, and I had noticed a distinct lack of Asian locations in their library and a very pastel palette to their landscapes too. However the speed of their response was exemplary.

A question Sean: what happens to the photos I uploaded to Stocksy ? Obviously I want them removed but I've had no response to the email I sent enquiring after this and I can no longer access my application to remove them myself.

Cheers
Kevin

By the way does anyone know how to remove your photos from Stocksy after receiving a rejection notice ? Logging in and returning to the CTA does nothing but open a new application, the original portfolio isn't accessible.

My application was completed on 29th September. Got my rejection notice today.

I've noticed people talking about how your submission needs to adhere to 'their vision or style or colour palette'. However it seems to me that is not true at all, in fact this quote from the interview with Stocksy CEO/Co-Founder Brianna Wettlaufer says quite the contrary .. so don't give up hope if your style/colour palette doesn't meet what you've seen on Stocksy !

BW: Our editors are closely involved in reviewing the people that apply. In our first year it was anyone that had artistic merit and the same sort of visual goal that we were after. This last year, we've been looking for people who are going to grow what's in the collection.

That's an extension of the concerns of our members. If someone's shooting particular content in a particular style, and then we bring in someone who's doing the same thing, that's no longer going to be a collaborative relationship—it's going to get very competitive. So right now the focus is on finding people who expand the creative vision in some new way that doesn't encroach on what's already there.

Quote from: Brasilnut on November 07, 2017, 08:17

QuoteI didn't know of Robert Harding - they seem a great fit for my travel & landscape photography (see the pics I posted to Stocksy above) so if I don't get into Stocksy I'll give RH a try.

They'll have no issues accepting some of your images.

My rejection rate with them is about 80%, which is fine because I put the remainder of the images on Alamy as RM.

I'm not sure if I'm reading it correctly but they require images to : be a minimum of 50mb uncompressed (panorama's 100mb) however they also state that We accept photographs shot with professional quality dslr or mirrorless cameras with a minimum of 12 mega-pixel sensors and pro lenses that surely can't be correct ! Print sizes would be massive at 50MB and a 12MP camera doesn't produce a 50MP file, even after conversion to TIFF !

Quote from: bestravelvideo on November 06, 2017, 18:39
I was also rejected. I got the same - probably preset - answer eZeePics was given. I gave it a try but I am actually happier I got accepted and started uploading to robertharding because I mostly do travel pics and videos. Now I understand why Brasilnut mentions you have to slowly build your portfolio there!

I didn't know of Robert Harding - they seem a great fit for my travel & landscape photography (see the pics I posted to Stocksy above) so if I don't get into Stocksy I'll give RH a try.

Interesting conversation and thanks to all for their opinions. It's great to get different perspectives. Until I get a refusal I'll keep uploading until I reach the 100 limit.

I do have some MRs however they don't need to be uploaded until you are accepted. Obviously some of those shots won't have them regardless but I'm sure I read Stocksy also accept editorial shots ? Is that incorrect ?

For the 2nd x 50 shots I'll upload I guess I'll concentrate more on shots with unidentifiable people in them and probably more Oriental 'subjects' (not people) as well as some MR released shots of my daughter (a model in London). I've lots of city / country shots similar to the latest one Brasilnut posted. It's difficult to get an 'author's perspective' when shooting land or some city scapes though, especially when I often go to a lot of trouble to exclude people from the shots (guess I'll have to change, or add to, my shooting style in future) 

Oft times though it's just there are not many shots of that location (maybe it's tough to get too or climatic conditions dissuade many) so that any good quality shots stand out - at least that's what I'm hoping !

What is Micro Vegas ?

Submitted my application a few days ago, currently at 50+. Not sure if my work will suit, some are more creative but many are fine art of landscapes and people of Nepal, China, Norway, Bhutan, Myanmar, Morocco etc. and a few drone shots of the same, as the application notes suggested they were looking for people based or supplying East and SE Asian stock. We'll see, I'm just starting out on this stock road 

My typical work can be seen on Instagram at : thedragonsfather

Photos submitted so far can be seen in the screenshots attached. Any chance do you guys think or not sufficiently 'stock' orientated ?

Quote from: BaldricksTrousers on October 20, 2017, 11:09

Quote from: ShadySue on October 17, 2017, 11:23

Quote from: Frogfish on October 17, 2017, 10:22
I use SmugMug as a repository for maybe 10% of my work (far too much to upload everything) !  Anyone wanting to take a look can find it here : https://frogfish.smugmug.com/  or cropped files on Instagram at @thedragonsfather

These images are mostly far too good for micro.

Yes, very nice shots. Maybe good for the Science Picture Library if there are a lot more - but just looking at various insects I note the absence of proper identifications. Of course, sorting out dragonflies and suchlike involves quite a bit of effort,

Thanks ! Actually I have an excellent books on Odonata etc. so I can put a name to all of the dragonflies, damsels, butterflies etc. however those were just a bit of fun and likely wouldn't be used or uploaded. It really is mostly my landscape and travel photography that I'll be concentrating on.

Cheers !
Kevin

Quote from: PaulieWalnuts on October 18, 2017, 12:07
If you're doing fine art I'd stay clear of micro. If you're selling an 8x12 print for say $40 and have that same image on micro, or even similar images that you decided weren't good enough, you'd be competing against yourself and devaluing your work. A buyer will do price shopping, buy your image $1 on micro and print the 8x12 at walmart for a couple dollars. While you may have made 30 cents you lost quite a bit more from them not buying the actual print from you. I have a clear dividing line with my work. Travel/Landscape I sell at consistent higher RM pricing. All other stuff like apples on white and phone shots of my breakfast go to micro.

Photoshelter is a portfolio site to showcase your work. They do zero marketing so you need to bring buyers to your site. I have a Photoshelter site with RM and self fulfilled print pricing. They also take a commission depending on your plan which I think is between 8-12%. You may want to also check into Photodeck.

If you're a good marketer with SEO and sales skills there's opportunity for selling at higher dollar amounts.

ETA: Just saw your link. You have some nice work but it's all over the place. I'd suggest becoming known for a specific subject so that you can attract repeat corporate buyers who have more money and will come back to you every time they need that subject. Are you Kevin the [landscape, animal, wedding, etc] photographer?

Thanks for the great advice Paulie !  That is exactly the way I think I'm going to go, now I just have to whittle down which exact sites I'm going to use.

I realise my work is 'varied' to say the least   Not sure how I can get away from that TBH. My daughter (who is a pro blogger & instagram whatever, in fashion and luxury travel) gave me the same advice you have in that regard.

Unfortunately I realise my days for trekking / mountains may only have a few years remaining (knees are on their way out) so I'm determined to get in as many big hikes as I can and my prime loves, photographically speaking, are 'big scenes'.  However because I'm often travelling in exciting countries, and live in China, there are also so many other subjects I enjoy shooting, and that people seem to enjoy viewing. I shoot less bird/animal photography now (can't haul all that gear, big lenses, around any more) and in future most of my work will be big 'scapes (Tibet and Greenland next year), the enviroments and the people that live in those regions ..... plus long exposure photography (really long, from a few seconds up to minutes).

n.b. Not that Kevin .. I don't shoot weddings

Many thanks !
Cheers
Kevin

Quote from: Brasilnut on October 18, 2017, 12:02

QuoteI use SmugMug as a repository for maybe 10% of my work (far too much to upload everything) !  Anyone wanting to take a look can find it here : https://frogfish.smugmug.com/ [nofollow]  or cropped files on Instagram at @thedragonsfather

Beautiful shots. I've just added you on instagram.

Mine is @arotenbergphotography

Thank you ! Added.

Quote from: cobalt on October 17, 2017, 14:37
The images are lovely, but I suppose a lot of the portraits are unreleased?

A lot of editorial travel imagery, lots of animals.

I don't know how much images like these are in demand, or how rare they are.

The question is - on your travels, would you maybe enjoy to organize a stock shoot?

Get a family to cook local dinner and take pictures of the process and the family eating together.

Make sure there are no brands or logos visible and get releases.

Most important: pay the family.

Then you have wonderful localized content that all agencies are looking for.

But would you enjoy doing that?

For many, after trying stock for two years, it is best to just stick to editorial, upload just every three months a carefully edited batch to a few agencies.

But unless you try it, you will never know.

Excellent suggestions, thank you. 

Editorial only as no model releases. I now have a model release form and electronic signature form installed on my phone for the future.

No problem at all with your 'family shoot' suggestion, fits right in with a lot of the shooting I do - note the 3 generation family shot from Nepal (after the earthquake). In fact the 'monks in Bagan' was in that vein (paid).

Cheers !
Kevin

Quote from: ShadySue on October 17, 2017, 11:23

Quote from: Frogfish on October 17, 2017, 10:22
I use SmugMug as a repository for maybe 10% of my work (far too much to upload everything) !  Anyone wanting to take a look can find it here : https://frogfish.smugmug.com/  or cropped files on Instagram at @thedragonsfather

These images are mostly far too good for micro.

HaHa    Oh dear - thanks Sue !

Quote from: rinderart on October 16, 2017, 01:01
Always remember One thing....Stock, Pure stock is not art. good commercial stock is a artform unto itself if done correctly. Pure art is galleries,POD is to me a scam in a big way especially Nowdays, Catering to folks that don't don't the difference in there work. I shoot for 4 markets. Commercial stock,Direct Sales and Gallery work. all quite different and you MUST understand this.. Im doing Micro since 2004 and general stock since 1968, then I do client work specifically for them,then I  work specifically with Interior decorators that furnish the hallways and common areas of very large Hotels in China,Mumbai etc. they Buy from me in Bulk with my Paintings of which I have 1407 of. they Print and frame. I supply the files.  I also supply My agent with work to be rented for interior decoration for Films and TV shows. all artwork seen on shows is rented which is a very Good Business.I also do 2 Gallery Shows in My town of Beverly Hills a year Of complete different work. One show is Very Large scale Oil On Canvas and the other is Usually B&W street work which happens to sell quite well. 16 x 20 in 20 x 24 Mats and Black Metal frames which I do Myself.
All the work is for different outputs and Understanding this as a artist is very Important and where 90% FAIL!!!!!!!!And there are Millions of great artists that will never be seen because of this, Dancers,actors,Painters,Photographers. The business side eludes The Vast Majority. ....******* the Microstock arena is currently going through a very Large slump so a good reason to never rely on one output.

If I had a Link to your work I would try to help More.
[email protected]

Very interesting comments. I've sent you an email and really appreciate your time and opinion.

I use SmugMug as a repository for maybe 10% of my work (far too much to upload everything) !  Anyone wanting to take a look can find it here : https://frogfish.smugmug.com/  or cropped files on Instagram at @thedragonsfather

Quote from: obj owl on October 16, 2017, 00:19

Quote from: Frogfish on October 15, 2017, 18:15

Any benefit to just selecting one MS site for RF or should I deposit them on as many sites as possible ?

Yes, if you want to retain any chance of an agency chasing infringement of license and thieves, one site is the way to go. It's hard work getting them involved if your images are with another agency. 
Exclusivity also pays a premium at some agencies and there are Premium Collections at some agencies, when it would not make sense to spead you images around. 
It can also save you time, energy and frustration uploading to too many agencies.

If I had my time again I would not touch RF on microstock, licenses are now such that you virtually give them away for 38cents or less with no support from the agencies when you need it.  OK if you sell thousands every month, but not for less.  If you must, try Stocksy, exclusive image with a better return.

Valuable opinion - thanks ! I am often contacted by agencies wanting to run checks for stolen images and I will use them as I've find a few stolen and in use online. I'll take a look at Stocksy.

Quote from: ShadySue on October 15, 2017, 18:57

Quote from: Frogfish on October 15, 2017, 18:15
Any benefit to just selecting one MS site for RF or should I deposit them on as many sites as possible ?

There are two issues here which only you can answer:
1. Whose BS are you prepared to / not prepared to tolerate (we all have different tolerances, not tolerance levels necessarily, but as a group we seem to have different tolerances for different sorts of BS.
2. Which will be best able to sell your pics? Which you can only really know by trial and error unless you know someone with the same subjects and styles as yourself, and even then all you could do would be take a share of their market.

Thanks Sue !

Quote from: cobalt on October 15, 2017, 20:59
Hi Kevin,

My suggestion would be to upload 1200 - 1800 files over one year to at least 4 different agencies.

Let the customers tell you what they really like to buy from your portfolio.

You might be very surprised what they choose.

Their main interest is "useful" for their business or their project, not "will it look good as a print over my dining table"

Once the customers have spoken, see if the themes that interest them, are also things you love to shoot.

Then keep making more of what they are ready to pay for...

Great advice - thanks !

Thanks BT.  It would seem I probably don't need PS either then as I am already on SmugMug (similar to Zenfolio) and they both seem to be very similar to PS if it's only a repository. Just need to upgrade SmugMug to Pro to sell on there.  Maybe PS attracts much higher footfall though.

So microstock for files that would otherwise sit on my HD and FAA/Alamy/Saatchi perhaps for RM with my own site for the highest quality and blog.

Any benefit to just selecting one MS site for RF or should I deposit them on as many sites as possible ?

Cheers !
Kevin

Quote from: BaldricksTrousers on October 15, 2017, 11:50
Re Photoshelter - what you would sell there would depend entirely on your own marketing skills. It's essentially a file storage site with sales potentiality built into it. It does get rid of the middle-man but you need to be able to reach potential buyers and direct them to your portfolio, which means a lot of work (also you need to set up a merchant account to receive credit card payments).  I use it for file storage and file organisation but it's an expensive option for that (however, as I'm paying I console myself with the thought that it won't suddenly shut down and cut me off from my processed files).

FAA is another site where you're meant to do your own marketing, but I do get some sales from that without making any effort. There are long gaps between sales (with about 800 files there)  but the income more than pays the hosting fees.  Those who do good work and their own marketing may make a good sum from there.

Thank you OBJ owl, Cobalt Sarah2 and Brasilnut for your replies, valuable opinion.

I think I may have to split my work into two, those I'm prepared to let go for RF and those for RM/Fine Art on my own website and Alamy/FAA/Saatchi.

Cheers !
Kevin

Hi All and thanks for taking the time to check out this post .. and hopefully reply 

Background
I'm newly retired (58) and am currently building my own website (using Divi) to display my fine art photography. However as I've lived in China for the past 23 yrs, and travel (and hike/climb) frequently (S.E. Asia, China, Japan, Nepal, Borneo, Iceland, Norway, UK & other European countries) with plans to add S.America too, I therefore have a substantial library of landscape, travel, long-exposure & bird & animal photography, however naturally only those I consider the best will appear on my personal website for fine art sales & travel blog (max. ca. 100). That leaves me with hundreds of thousands of decent to very good shots sitting untouched on my many hard disks ! 

I used to use all pro-level Nikon gear, now however mainly Sony with Zeiss & Voigtlander lenses and I'm getting into Drone photography too.

OK that's the background.

I've done a fair bit of research and have found the plethora of microstock sites (there's a difference with macrostock etc ?) slightly overwhelming, and am actually very surprised at the low commission rates for artists & suppliers, and also at the very low quality of many (but certainly not most) of the photos offered.  I can accept 60-70% which seems fair if they are offering a range of services to the buyer (framing etc.) but don't want to limit myself to one site and then have to accept 30% for multi-agency !   

I was initially going to register (in fact I have at their lowest level, $22) on Fine Art America but I haven't uploaded anything yet and I also registered on 500px but once I read about some of the drawbacks and losing control of my better work (and the 30% for shots not given sole distribution through the site, I still haven't uploaded anything there either). Am I in cloudland regarding commissions ?! Note I am not looking to make a living, enough to support my photography and contribute to travel expenses would be great 

Any thoughts on Photoshelter ?

Any advice on which sites to start off using and how to retain control of my images (all contain my logo, copies without logos are supplied to buyers) would be very welcome.

Many thanks !
Kevin