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Messages - LDV81

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1
Off Topic / Re: This should settle some different opinions
« on: February 26, 2024, 20:13 »
Stoker2014, I would like to ask you to stop antagonizing Ukraine's allies and stop posting Trumpist delusions and nonsenses, or I will consider you a Russian troll. Perhaps you spend a part of your life in a parallel universe where Trump is decent and on the side of Ukraine. But in this universe, he is a Putin's pawn, for crying out loud.

https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/02/26/7443828/

2
Off Topic / Re: This should settle some different opinions
« on: February 26, 2024, 20:08 »
You have a few on your side: putin, Tucker Carlson, trump, and his maga cultists...
Putin publicly supported Biden. You deny the facts. This is how Democratic propaganda works.

As most of the things that Putin says are lies, that is how you should know that Biden is worse for Putin and better for Ukraine, *. Or do you suddenly trust Putin?

3
An interesting analysis of the situation by Bernardo Kastrup:

https://www.bernardokastrup.com/2024/01/uaps-and-non-human-intelligence-what-is.html

As usually, Bernardo is very interested in parsimony. However, there is no guarantee that parsimony will lead to the truth. Still, an interesting hypothesis, an intersting point of view and a very balanced article. It might also be one of multiple aspects of the phenomenon. Bernardo had consulted the essay with such people as e.g. Garry Nolan and Hal Puthoff.

4

Yes it is whatabout. Your history the mythology the beliefs the fantasy science fiction is all flawed, lies, fables, fakes and not science. What about that? Talk about escaping the question, you divert and don't answer. What about all the fakes and debunked stories for over 60 years. And your pal Lowls doesn't answer anything, he just turns into Donald Trump and starts spewing personal attacks, trying to bully anyone who disagrees. How childish.

If you want it all to be about Grush and parallel planes, that's fine. But you have to excuse me for pointing out, UFOs and Aliens have attracted a large set of liars and nut cases. Religious doomsday cults that ended in suicide. End of the world, with the aliens coming down to save us.
Whatabout the history and the false claims. That's a fair question to ask.


1. You repeatedly, and with premeditation, use whataboutism, which is a logical fallacy:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

2. You build a straw man, and then you burn it, which is another logical fallacy:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

3. When confronted with facts, you go berserk and spit out vitriol in an act resembling religious fanaticism. Destroying the chessboard when you are losing. You don't bring any constructive arguments of your own to the discussion. Zero positive contribution to the subject. You just claim that it is all fraud and lies and all people dealing with the phenomenon are frauds - because some might have been - when there is absolutely no causal relationship between those people and what is happening now with Grusch's claims.

Therefore I must conclude that you don't display any good will and don't seem to be interested in finding out the truth about the phenomenon. And as a result of that, participating in a conversation with you is intellectually a very underwhelming activity. You don't even know what my personal views about the nature of the phenomenon are, because your fanaticism doesn't allow the possibility of explanations that are contrary to your belief system. And in this thread, I did try to see the phenomenon from multiple angles - including a possibility of a psyop. Viewing an issue from multiple sides and considering various explanations requires good will, and as I wrote above - I don't think you have it.

5
I wrote to the forum, not to you. Maybe you can tell me, what do you think of Bob Lazar, Billy Meier, Ed Walters, George Adamski, David Icke, Jonathan Reed, and Steven Greer? How about Roswell, Ray Santilli and the alien autopsy? Or are you only going with Grusch from now on and ignoring the long history of fakes and frauds.

As I said, please work on your logical reasoning skills. What you present here is a classic case of whataboutism:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

Maybe some, or all, of those people were frauds, maybe there were some nuggets of truth in their claims, I honestly don't know. Some are suspicious.
But whatever they claimed is absolutely irrelevant to the person of Grusch. They don't matter. All it takes is one single confirmed case and the whole denialism crumbles like a house of cards.

Grusch is an investigator tasked with this job by the US government. He did present evidence to the Inspector General of the Intelligence Community - Thomas Monheim. Based on that evidence he briefed Congressmen about his findings. Coming out of the briefing, they said "Grusch's claims have merit", "Grusch is legit".

These are facts, for crying out loud.

Another fact is that a lobby in the House fought hard (and won) against the Schumer amendment, which had been passed earlier in the Senate. It is logical to assume that there is some struggle in the circles of power; some are for disclosure, others are against it.

Now, can I say with 100% certainty that what Grusch claims is true? No, I cannot, because I have no means to verify that information myself. And that is OK.

But if you think that Grusch doesn't say the truth, the IGIC told lies to the Congress Committe, then you must deal with one very serious question and that question is:

W*T*F is going on???

Escaping that question is intellectual laziness and mediocrity. If you think that there is something suspicious going behind the curtain, then there you go: that is a conspiracy theory, too.

6
There is a very big sway towards interdimensional. It seems to be being bandied about more and more. I'm not there on that one but it is concerning to see it more and more. Just another race seems inevitable but one or many that can open portals or doorways into our world seems incorrect.

From Northrop Grumman:

https://now.northropgrumman.com/do-doors-to-interdimensional-travel-exist

Background information from Wikipedia for those who don't know Northrop Grumman:

Northrop Grumman Corporation is an American multinational aerospace and defense technology company. With 95,000 employees and an annual revenue in excess of $30 billion, it is one of the world's largest weapons manufacturers and military technology providers.

now here's a red herring!    - if you bothered to, look at the 'about' page you'd find The content on this site doesnt necessarily reflect the views of Northrop Grumman.

and the actual article just reviews current thinking about the POSSIBILITY, and that's for gravitational influences, not wormholes or blackhole transports

nothing new here & no connectin with UFO

Oh, for crying out loud, linking to a page doesn't necessarily mean endorsement. As the inter-dimensional hypothesis had been mentioned, I thought it was interesting that people writing for Northrop Grumman contemplate such ideas. The inter-dimensional hypothesis in the context of UFOs may mean several things. But exploring such possibilities requires leaving Plato's Cave, or rejecting the blue pill.

And instead of nitpicking, you might also address the gigantic elephant in the room, which is Friday's briefing with Inspector General.

7
Another phony pseudoscience story is deflated. Pop go the aliens.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/they-are-not-aliens-peru-officials-debunk-claims-that-figures-are-extraterrestrials/ar-AA1mTjPM?OCID=ansmsnnews11
"The conclusion is simple: they are dolls assembled with bones of animals from this planet, with modern synthetic glues, therefore they were not assembled during pre-Hispanic times," Estrada said. "They are not extraterrestrials; they are not aliens."

In the light of the recent events, that story and your post are COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT and uninteresting. Red herring.
In other news, yesterday it didn't snow in Morocco.

I thought you would be against lies, deception and coverup. Instead you try to defend the science fiction fantasy, fake news about alien bodies. This is over but another claim or fake will replace it. There are no alien corpses, no photos, no evidence, every. It is completely relevant to the UFO alien cult that will believe any trash fake news and spread it like it's real. Don't you have any integrity or standards in your search for the truth?

I suggest you sharpen your reading-with-understanding skills and work on logical reasoning.

You have built a strawman and now you are burning it. Where did I write that the mummies were real? Did any of the serious people working in the field (Nolan, Elizondo, Grusch, Mellon, Coulthard) even picked up the story? No, they avoided it, perhaps because they knew it was a distraction. Who cares about the dolls when there is Grusch?

"in the light of recent events" = an investigator working for the US government had made some very serious and specific claims about a cover-up and more. On Friday, the Inspector General informed the Congress Committee about his findings based on the evidence provided to him by Grusch. After the briefing, Congressmen said "Grusch is legit", "Grusch's claims have merit".

And that is the real story, not some mummies. The briefing is a FACT. It is a scandal that many mainstream media chose to cover the mummies and remained silent about the implications of the briefing. You pick some facts that fit into your denialist worldview and choose not to see the real story.

You have swallowed the red herring that most likely was thrown to the denialist crowd as a distraction. Bon apptit.

8
There is a very big sway towards interdimensional. It seems to be being bandied about more and more. I'm not there on that one but it is concerning to see it more and more. Just another race seems inevitable but one or many that can open portals or doorways into our world seems incorrect.

From Northrop Grumman:

https://now.northropgrumman.com/do-doors-to-interdimensional-travel-exist

Background information from Wikipedia for those who don't know Northrop Grumman:

Northrop Grumman Corporation is an American multinational aerospace and defense technology company. With 95,000 employees and an annual revenue in excess of $30 billion, it is one of the world's largest weapons manufacturers and military technology providers.

9
Another phony pseudoscience story is deflated. Pop go the aliens.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/they-are-not-aliens-peru-officials-debunk-claims-that-figures-are-extraterrestrials/ar-AA1mTjPM?OCID=ansmsnnews11
"The conclusion is simple: they are dolls assembled with bones of animals from this planet, with modern synthetic glues, therefore they were not assembled during pre-Hispanic times," Estrada said. "They are not extraterrestrials; they are not aliens."

In the light of the recent events, that story and your post are COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT and uninteresting. Red herring.
In other news, yesterday it didn't snow in Morocco.

10
....
I assume that "many of Grusch's claims have merit" is an understatement, due to the fact that the info is classified. If even some of Grusch's claims were true, then it is really big. If what Grusch said was BS, I don't think they would be dealing with it the way they are doing it.
...

there are many reasons info is classified. first the use of classified has metastasized, and many dox being declassified should never have been so, but there are also concerns that info would disclose security capabilities, etc.  dox repeating info published by major newspapers & blogs have also been classified.

conclusion - classification does not imply conspiracy to hide results or even dox having significant new info.

That is not the point. I see the statement "many of Grusch's claims have merit" as a likely understatement. As the briefing was in a SCIF, they are probably not allowed to discuss it in detail. Saying "pretty much everything that Grusch said is true" would reveal too much, and Moskovitz was not allowed to do so. So, a general statement like that, without going into details, is actually pretty big, especially as they will definitely continue to investigate the matter. Perhaps they have got names and addresses and were presented evidence. If it was BS, it would have been simply dismissed and the case would have been closed.

The heck, even if only some part of Grusch's claims are true, it is a gamechanger, and the denialist worldview crumbles like a house of cards.

11
After the SCIF, Burchett says "Grusch is legit":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEQNq0HkyFc

Rep. Moskovitz: "Based on what we heard many of Grusch claims have merit!"
https://twitter.com/JaredEMoskowitz/status/1745852400630456618

Rep. Luna: Grusch never said extraterrestrial, he said interdimensional. There is a movement to prevent us from finding out more information
https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/194zbl8/rep_luna_grusch_never_said_extraterrestrial_he/

Have they been briefed about "something that doesn't exist"? Or are we pretty darn close to the actual disclosure?

1966 - Hynek receives a phone call from the government and is forced to lie to the public that the sightings were "swamp gas". Hynek was a skeptic who became a believer after his research
2017 - Pentagon confirms that some UAPs are real, not hallucinations and not hoaxes. And not "swamp gas".
2023 - Grusch says there is a reverse-engineering program, there are NHI and that has been going on for many decades
2024 - Inspector General must have seen the evidence provided by Grusch, Congressmen are presented information from the IG and say that Grusch is not a lunatic or a liar

THESE ARE FACTS.

There is a point of origin: "the lie about swamp gas" - and there is a direction in which new events unfold - based on that trajectory we can try to extrapolate where the story is heading. I picked the point of origin arbitrarily - but that event confirms that the government really knew something more and tried to cover it up.

I assume that "many of Grusch's claims have merit" is an understatement, due to the fact that the info is classified. If even some of Grusch's claims were true, then it is really big. If what Grusch said was BS, I don't think they would be dealing with it the way they are doing it.

I suppose the denialist worldview is about to crumble like a house of cards.
Perhaps things will get "woo"...

12
any theory destroyed by 1 black swan was a poor theory to start with. scientists wouldn't make a statement such as 'there are no black swans' and you have yet to give an actual scientific example from the modern world

The phenomenon of terminal lucidity could potentially be a black swan for the materialist idea that the mind and consciousness are generated by the brain. And as such, for the whole materialist paradigm. Unless materialists come up with an explanation in the future, it probably is a black swan.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminal_lucidity
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20010032/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36160593/


13
Hundreds of years ago, some people in Europe claimed that black swans were not possible - without having explored the whole of the Earth. That was arrogant.

So you say, yet so far you have failed to provide any evidence whatsoever that ANYONE, let alone a scientist of any repute, EVER said anything like that.

Quote
The phrase "black swan" derives from a Latin expression; its oldest known occurrence is from the 2nd-century Roman poet Juvenal's characterization in his Satire VI of something being "rara avis in terris nigroque simillima cygno" ("a rare bird in the lands and very much like a black swan").[4]: 165 [5][6] When the phrase was coined, the black swan was presumed not to exist. The importance of the metaphor lies in its analogy to the fragility of any system of thought. A set of conclusions is potentially undone once any of its fundamental postulates is disproved. In this case, the observation of a single black swan would be the undoing of the logic of any system of thought, as well as any reasoning that followed from that underlying logic.

Juvenal's phrase was a common expression in 16th century London as a statement of impossibility.[7] The London expression derives from the Old World presumption that all swans must be white because all historical records of swans reported that they had white feathers.[8] In that context, a black swan was impossible or at least nonexistent.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_swan_theory

14
In fact, I am a believer in black swans. I just saw a pair of them a few days ago in a zoo.

I do not believe in swans abducting people, though. So, show me comparable evidence for extraterrestial involvement in the "UFO phenomenon" and I'll become a believer there, too.

Dude, I couldn't care less about what you believe in. I am not proselytizing anyone. As a matter of fact, 'believe' is a very dangerous word. I don't "believe" in any hypothesis regarding the origin of UFOs. I just acknowledge them as potential explanations. I like to listen to people who have been researching the subject for very long. Some seem more credible and knowledgeable than others. And I think it is stupid to discard and discredit all of them as fraudsters.

Hundreds of years ago, some people in Europe claimed that black swans were not possible - without having explored the whole of the Earth. That was arrogant. Right now, people claim that it is not possible that NHIs are behind UFOs - without having explored the Universe or understanding the nature of reality. Different centuries, the same kind of arrogance.

Sometimes, you need to reason like Sherlock Holmes - if you eliminate possibilities one by one - whatever is left will be true, no matter how unlikely it seems at first. If you cannot eliminate certain explanations with available knowledge - it sucks, but it sometimes happens and you just need to be patient.

15
But this was then a general statements about the swans observed so far and did not exclude the possibility that black swans may be discovered elsewhere.

If someone theorized about black adult swans in 17th century Europe, than they spoke about something that had not yet been observed, but might well exist, according to the knowledge of the time.

So I hope you see the difference to the UFO theories today. They not only make claims that have not yet been proven true, but may well be true, but they make claims that are very unlikely to be true. Just like swans spewing fire or abducting people.

No, you don't get the metaphor, you're just trying to convolute it.

For what it's worth, our knowledge of the Universe and the wider reality is not much greater than the knowledge of the Earth's fauna in 17th century Europe. "claims that are very unlikely to be true" - unlikely within our very limited (mainstream) understanding of reality?

You just assume that the UFO phenomenon doesn't involve non-human intelligence, reject all kinds of proposed hypotheses, and yet you cannot formulate any other sensible hypothesis. Pure denial and nothing alternative to contribute.

A black-swan event is a single event that completely destroys a theory or a worldview. And therefore, denialism is an intellectually risky position, because it can be destroyed by such a single black-swan event.

16
which critics here have said alien visits MUST be false? instead we ask for some actual evidence -- the results so far are that a few reports re UNEXPLAINED.

1. It is my impression that all denialists active here reject the possibility of alien visits. Let's reverse the question then: which denialists here entertain the possibility of alien visits? But: when you say "alien" (in the sense 'extraterrestrial') - it is already an assumption and an interpretation. If you listen to serious people who have been researching this subject for long, e.g. Valle or Nolan - they generally don't make that assumption anymore. In fact, they moved away from the extraterrestrial hypothesis.

2. Demanding 'evidence' in a forum like this is ridiculous and unfair. Do you expect somebody to leak some classified Pentagon, Lockheed, Raytheon documents in Microstockgroup (assuming such documents exist)? That is nonsense. You need to realize where we come from and where we are now, regarding the subject. Anyone with thinking skills and true interest in the subject will know that a lot has changed since 2017. That year seems to have been a pivotal moment. The phenomenon was officially acknowledged, even though there was no official interpretation. And then the Elizondo guy appeared on the scene, dropping "breadcrumbs", as he calls the information that he is allowed to share.

Is it plausible that some compelling evidence and details are classified and there are factions opposing the disclosure? I think it is plausible. Plausible doesn't mean it is certain, but it very well could be true. Imagine going to a muslim country and present them "evidence" that everything what they believe in is false. You would not make it out alive and it would create a gigantic mess.

Now, this thread paradoxically shows why releasing compelling evidence to the public may be problematic. Only mentioning the subject has pushed several participants to ridicule the subject, and to demand that the subject is swept under the carpet because it is nonsense, not real, fantasy, etc. These people did not propose any alternative explanations, any hypotheses which could be defended.

I think right now all we can do is try to connect the dots, or Elizondo's "breadcrumbs". Something weird is definitely going on and it is perfectly fine to make speculations and formulate hypotheses. But ridiculing other's hypotheses and not provide anything alternative is lame and pathetic.

You do have reports of experiencers and researchers. You don't need to believe all of them. Some are known hoaxers, some are not credible. You can try to assess their credibility and seriousness on an individual level. You can try to verify the facts or even go with a gut feeling. But discrediting all of them a priori is lame - it is a white-swan bias.

Do I think Elizondo is credible? I think he is either credible or one of the best actors in the world. Could he be part of some psyops? I cannot exclude such a possibility, but nevertheless, he does have very interesting things to say. And I do think that he has seen things.

At the moment, it really looks like there are attempts to disclose something, whatever it is. And there are pro-disclosure and anti-disclosure factions within the US government.

Instead sweeping the subject under the carpet, you can try to connect the dots for yourself, come up with your own hypothesis and not bash people who dare to talk about the subject.

17
Denialism is also a form of religious fanticism. It has nothing to do with science. The foundation of science is curiosity. Without curiosity you can't have science, so denialists should not pretend to be pro-science. People like Garry Nolan or Avi Loeb do science. And science at the highest level, for that matter. They certainly don't lack curiosity.

Denialism is basically a white-swan theory.

https://mythsexplained.substack.com/p/all-swans-are-white

Denialists will try to discredit and ridicule all people and reports that are contrary to their beliefs. No matter what, any kind of reports of black swans must be false, because black swans are not possible. In this forum, it has grown to a religious fanaticism.

But all it takes is a single black-swan event, and a white-swan worldview crumbles like a house of cards.


Who has ever formulated a "white-swan thoery"?

Even if we ignore the fact that young swans are generally not white, I doubt that any scientist has ever formulated something that goes beyond:

All swans that we know of are white as adults.

This does not exclude the possibility that other swan species may be black or that some mutation might cause an adult swan to be grey or black.

So, I have to ask you: who has ever stated anything like:

"Swans in other colors than white are not possible"

Do you understand the concept of a metaphor?

Once again:
https://mythsexplained.substack.com/p/all-swans-are-white

18
the story this far - lots of hearsay, rumors and conspiracy nonsense - actual evidence? NADA. and any critiques are met with ad hominem attacks rather than addressing the serious lack of evidence other than 'i know a guy who said they knew somebody who saw something'

if posts had to be constructive or interesting this thread would be done - all we get are rumors and links the posters  havent even read!

"It is hearsay therefore it is nonsense and cannot be true" - facepalm. Any report that is contrary to your belief system must be false, by definition. White-swan world.

https://mythsexplained.substack.com/p/all-swans-are-white

Most of the ad hominem attacks and ridicule have been done by denialists a.k.a. white-swan theorists.

I am not sure you should ask about "evidence", for your own sanity. I think you are not ready for "evidence". People in this thread are running berserk only at the mention of some hypotheses. Hypotheses! Now imagine a real black-swan event and its effect on societies.

For what it's worth, I don't care what you believe in and I don't know myself what the origin of UFOs is. But discrediting and ridiculing all reports is super lame, it is a kindergarten level of discussion. Yes, there have been many hoaxes in this field, but now some very serious people are onboard and ridiculing them is pathetic.

If you at least listened to some interviews with Elizondo or Nolan, it could broaden your horizons. They are not trying to convince anyone to believe in anything. But they have had access to more information than average people and share what they are allowed to say.

19
NASA Report, Officials stressed the panel found no evidence that UAPs had extraterrestrial origin.
Now mummies from space. Don't ruin the childish fantasy with made up stories. This is total nonsense.

As you apparently have nothing constructive or interesting to contribute, you wasted a fantastic opportunity to remain silent.

You have no understanding of scientific method or how real science works. You can pretend your make believe UFO fantasy is real, and live in denial. You can ignore and ridicule anything that doesn't fit your blind closed minded belief. The truth is out there and not what you rant on about for 20 pages. Repeating the lies won't make them true. Attacking others here is not answering questions or looking at the facts. You are deflecting and avoiding.

Your religion is a cult belief, aliens from space.

Denialism is also a form of religious fanticism. It has nothing to do with science. The foundation of science is curiosity. Without curiosity you can't have science, so denialists should not pretend to be pro-science. People like Garry Nolan or Avi Loeb do science. And science at the highest level, for that matter. They certainly don't lack curiosity.

Denialism is basically a white-swan theory.

https://mythsexplained.substack.com/p/all-swans-are-white

Denialists will try to discredit and ridicule all people and reports that are contrary to their beliefs. No matter what, any kind of reports of black swans must be false, because black swans are not possible. In this forum, it has grown to a religious fanaticism.

But all it takes is a single black-swan event, and a white-swan worldview crumbles like a house of cards.

For what it's worth, I don't know what the origin of UFOs is. But weird things are happening, as acknowledged by people from the US government. Credible and intelligent people, like Nolan and Elizondo had access to classified information and they say some interesting things in interviews, at least stuff that they are allowed to say.

I don't care what you believe. For me it is an interesting subject; if true, it is one of the biggest stories in the history of mankind. For many people, this thing can be a huge shock, so it plausible that more detailed knowledge is classified.

20
NASA Report, Officials stressed the panel found no evidence that UAPs had extraterrestrial origin.
Now mummies from space. Don't ruin the childish fantasy with made up stories. This is total nonsense.

As you apparently have nothing constructive or interesting to contribute, you wasted a fantastic opportunity to remain silent.

21
NASA Report, Officials stressed the panel found no evidence that UAPs had extraterrestrial origin.

Fine, what is their hypothesis then?

If not extraterrestrial then what? Extratemporal, ultraterrestrial, interdimensional or advanced tech belonging to adversaries of the US? Black budget projects? Multiple factions?

You've got confirmed observations of 'anomalies' that haven't been explained. You don't need evidence to formulate a hypothesis. If you reject one hypothesis, then the onus is on you to attempt an alternative explanation.

"We don't know 'officially' what it is, but we'll just imply it is not of extraterrestrial origin" - is very lame.

But the positive thing is that they called for the removal of stigma around the subject of UFO:

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/nasa-hopes-reduce-stigma-around-001644889.html

The culture of ridicule and stigmatization is pathetic. Since 2017 a lot has changed in this field, but many people are still stuck in the past.

22
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

Historic Discovery: Fossilized Extraterrestrial Head Unearthed in Oregon


Seattle, 31 August 2023 In a groundbreaking moment for the scientific community and space enthusiasts alike, a team of researchers from the Discovery Institute in Seattle has uncovered an astonishing artifact: the fossilized head of an extraterrestrial being. The discovery promises to reshape our understanding of the cosmos and ignite new discussions about life beyond Earth.


I believe this was an attempt at humor or ridicule. Fascinating.
A for effort. F for the content.

23
And I know that we cannot directly perceive the whole reality, as for example we can only perceive electro-magnetic radiation of  certain wave lengths, but from what I understand, this is not what he means and he rejects also what we can measure with scientific instruments as reality.

Whatever you measure with scientific instruments and the instruments themselves are filtered through the screen of our perceptions. Scientific instruments didn't exist at the beginning of evolution. By the time we invented them, evolution had already given us the virtual reality headset or the desktop interface as he calls it. So, the instruments we create are part of that interface, and do not exist outside of it. You can measure aspects of the perceived reality, but the act of measurement will be a perception in itself. Evolution showed us only the categories of things important for our survival. Anything else is hidden.

That's what I meant. As long as you believe in stuff like that, we have no common ground, as we live in different relaties.

It is difficult to build instruments for aspects of reality that you can't perceive.

It is not that hard to build an instrument that can detect X-rays.

Or an instrument that can receive radio waves. They are called radios and have been quite popular since their invention.

I corrected it to "aspects of reality that you can't even imagine" - as this is what I meant. First, someone had to imagine those concepts, and only then the instruments could be built.
And that goes back to earlier posts and imagining things beyond the current paradigm.

24
And I know that we cannot directly perceive the whole reality, as for example we can only perceive electro-magnetic radiation of  certain wave lengths, but from what I understand, this is not what he means and he rejects also what we can measure with scientific instruments as reality.

Whatever you measure with scientific instruments and the instruments themselves are filtered through the screen of our perceptions. Scientific instruments didn't exist at the beginning of evolution. By the time we invented them, evolution had already given us the virtual reality headset or the desktop interface as he calls it. So, the instruments we create are part of that interface, and do not exist outside of it. You can measure aspects of the perceived reality, but the act of measurement will be a perception in itself. Evolution showed us only the categories of things important for our survival. Anything else is hidden. It is difficult to build instruments for aspects of reality that you can't even imagine.

25
I'd rather attend a meeting of the Flat Earth Society than deal with that nonsense.

In other words, in the absence of arguments, you resort to insults.

I feel free to call out obvious nonsense and I'm not inclined to get in an argument about his guys notions, because if you reject the concept of reality itself, then we have no common ground and any argument is futile.

Where does he reject the concept of reality? Hoffman never did it.

It is even in the title of one of his books: "The case against reality"


LOL. As the saying goes, never judge the book by the cover. The title is catchy and provoking, but he never rejected the concept of reality. But whatever reality is, it is most likely not what you perceive. All your life are basically perceptions...

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