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Messages - MadPhotos

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  Adobe came to us seeing our assets sitting and doing nothing, and fact that they offered to pay is sight of respect to our work and acknowledgement of our rights to that assets.

SS also does that thru wirestock's instant pay program
Isnt it free forever? That is bad idea. Wirestock is part of SS and you basicly helping them to take even more of your money like 10c is still to much for you it's your decision. In my opinion financially it's worst you can do to yourself.
My workflow is few times faster from wirestock from upload to approve state and I upload to around 15 agencies with a pressing of one button but yes it isn't free as well. I pay up to $20 per month to Stocksubmiter to do most of my upload work. If you earn $ 100 per month its not good but if you earn couple thousends it's nothing compared to percent Wirestock takes. But everyone value his own work differently and need to establish what works the best for them.

2
Covid, summer, oversuply, free image sites, I'm surprised we're earning anything at all.

Exactly... Thing is ppl will assume a lot depending on their point of view. I'm more on positive side because I constantly being contacted by ppl and company's that found my work on stock sites like Adobe or even SS. And those ppl are professionals with budgets and they never fish for free stuff and are ready and "surprisingly" ready to pay top price. Their priorities aren't what we would think. Free stuff and low commissions are product of agencies looking for bigger profits, competition against other agencies and in many cases price of product dosnt change only part for contributors getting smaller. They can afford losing contributors but not customers.
 I finding Adobe offer 12 months free best in industry right now where other agencies give you option to offer free stuff as a promotion but without any compensation... Because why would they if you want to offer it for free?
  Adobe came to us seeing our assets sitting and doing nothing, and fact that they offered to pay is sight of respect to our work and acknowledgement of our rights to that assets.

3
. Nothing to assume if I have my own statistics.

Your own statistics are irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.

Besides, you, like many others, changed your strategy when you began to offer your stuff for free.

Therefore your past performance is not a predictor of your future performance, anymore.

Too bad you fail to understand how bad this model is for all of us!
Your personal opinion, you have right to have one.
Disagree as since 4 years I see only growth that slows down when my performance slows down. I don't live in past and present won't stay same forever im aware of that. If you won't adopt you stay behind. And complaining changes nothing.

I am not complaining. I am explaining. Obviously, not everybody is ready to admit when they made a bad call and explanations are futile, in such cases.
Good luck, and while you are joyfully sawing off the branch you are sitting on, remember that you shouldn't complain when you'll break your legs  ;D

Thanks for that clich wishes 👌. Remember life is much more than stock photos. Don't act like all will end with it it's not healthy. Good luck as well.

4
. Nothing to assume if I have my own statistics.

Your own statistics are irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.

Besides, you, like many others, changed your strategy when you began to offer your stuff for free.

Therefore your past performance is not a predictor of your future performance, anymore.

Too bad you fail to understand how bad this model is for all of us!
Your personal opinion, you have right to have one.
Disagree as since 4 years I see only growth that slows down when my performance slows down. I don't live in past and present won't stay same forever im aware of that. If you won't adopt you stay behind. And complaining changes nothing.

5
Whether you accepted this deal or not, it will hurt us all.
Don't fool yourself, buyers will always take the free image, if it represents their needs, no matter the quality.I hope I am wrong.
I am already seeing the results (one free image), I had just six small downloads this month, none today, I haven't seen this for a long time.

Sounds like you dont upload much and that would be the main reason. Some upload hundreds assets a week or even day.
Your old photos will be burried with time if you wont be fighting for your posittion in that competition.
Its way to soon to say what is the impact of free collection, it will take months to see results. First batch last year brought some new customers and i saw it in my sales.
BTW This month for me is normal no change in sales... so yes too soon and i got aproved 50 free photos

6
...giving away free images is marketing and promoting for me (still not free as they pay) always did it and it worked for me every time...

Weird, I havent found this at all.

I see these sorts of collections as promotion/ marketing for the agency, to increase traffic to them over a competing agency.

I have never seen any significant uptick from an agency putting my work front and centre, even when I have been photographer of the month/ week or whatever with my work / portfolio on the front page of a site.

Mileage may vary I guess.

After being featured in Editors pics my sales jumped instantly even 50%, after giving away some photos in time limit of one month for free showing my main subjects i picked up some slight spikes in sales through next few months of that theme. Getting on the first page of search is like striking the gold and free photos can get you there fastest.

Like you said Mileage may vary.
If i would promote themes that arent searched for, it would not change the traffic to my port.

Main thing is to studdy statistics through Apps like Microstockr or follow statistics on sites like Creative market that show you exacly when who and why come to buy.
And dont assume


7
It doesn't matter how it's packaged, giving our work away for free devalues us all, as if we haven't already been devalued enough. When I see an image in the Free section of any agency, I assume it wasn't good enough to be accepted. I then look at the name of the creator and assume that person isn't very good at what he does. And that is what the buyers - I mean takers in this instance - will think too.  Anyone participating in this travesty should be ashamed. Stop the madness.
When I see it I assume someone want to promote his photos like I do. And I don't assume what customer assume especially when my sales go up. Nothing to assume if I have my own statistics.

8
If something is perceived as better than free then it can compete...hence people pay for mineral water in restaurants rather than free tap water. Price is rarely the only factor in purchasing decisions.

Do you mean like this: https://youtu.be/EL5O_9HnN4E?
 ;D
Indeed.....there have been a few cases of companies bottling municipal tap water and selling at a premium......

Then the conclusion is that buyers can be fooled and made belive that something is better, but only for limited time.

Isn't it the same for the photos "perceived" to be better, you gave as an example?

It's just a matter of time before the buyers realize that the free alternative is equally good, or simply good enough for the purpose.  ;)

Metaphore have zero sense here. Customers have eyes, if free photos are better for their purpose they will pick free. Company's have budget for that reason and if paid are better they will pick better. Don't know what is your customer base but my for sure isn't ppl without money. Many times before I was contacted by potential buyers and offered them one free photo and they coming back to buy more of my fresh photos mostly for advertising and tourism. I would be exclusive to Pexel sites if my customer base was broke. You guys get over dramatic and it turns into comedy. Going back to water, you don't know which is better unless you have mobile laboratory with you and carry a test of your drinks. You don't need science to see what photo suits your needs.

9
At the end of the day, this is not a good deal for us.

Many of my proposed photos gathered much more than $5 elsewhere, while AS didn't do a good job in promoting them..,..

1. so, adding them to AS makes sense as you'll get more than they've earned
2. buyers at other sites are unlikely to find same images among AS free

and have those images made $5 on other sites in the last year??

My point is that many "buyers" will just be satisfied with free, instead of paying for something else.
So instead of driving additional sales (as this new business model is expecting), it will rather prevent regular sales to be made.

Yes, we get $5, for a photo, but that will kill sales and the earnings for other contributors with a similar subject. The losses will exceed $5, because nothing beats free.

We don't shoot ourselves in the foot, indeed (because we get $5).
We rather shoot each other in the feet (because we will both lose more than $5, when we compete against each other with free vs paid)

It looks to me like John Nash's game theory, described in A Beautiful Mind: what is the best outcome for the individuals is not always the best outcome for the group.

"Yes, we get $5, for a photo, but that will kill sales and the earnings for other contributors "

I produce couple hunderets assets per month and giving away free images is marketing and promoting for me (still not free as they pay) always did it and it worked for me every time. I dont mind giving away assets that not selling and im constantly working on making better and more saleable assets.
 I think the problem starts when someone expect his old portfolio to sell forever then other contributtors that produce new assets will outpreform them in few months free or not anyway.

If you active and working to make more, customers always will need new and actual photos. If there will be free photo of location that travel agency will use they will need more most likely and wont use one photo forever because it was free. If there is customer that use only free photo he wont be on adobe but pexel, unsplash etc. so someone i dont care about anyway and most likely he never bought photos anyway.
 
Its about real customers that constantly need photos for company etc. If someone come for free photos only most likely he never bought photos anyway.

"We rather shoot each other in the feet"

There is no we in sales, we compete against each other free or not best assets gets more sales and everyone is assessing best that works for them. Would be silly to lose oportunity to earn more because i want someone else to sell their photos better.

Just my point of view.

I understand your point of view.
My experience is different. I have solid assets that sell well over and over again, since many years!
Producing more of the same, will only devalue my best sellers.

Yes, you have to shoot more, indeed, but different themes and subjects. Otherwise, you are really shooting yourself in the foot!

Taking this in consideration, if now AS has in its free collection assets that compete with my best sellers, I will lose, even if my stuff is better, because nothing competes with free.

Of course we are competitors, but as the boys in A Beautiful Mind went home without getting laid, because they all set their eyes on the gorgeous blonde while neglecting the other girls, the same way we will lose because we set our eyes on those $5, without seing the big picture and the science behind this game theory. 😉

I do understend your point of view as well but i disagree being valid to microstock.

 With amount of assets uploaded daily the "Producing more of the same, will only devalue my best sellers" in my experiance isnt valid as it could be years ago.
If you wont shoot planty simlars but fresh photos every few weeks other contributors will replace your themes. Customers like new.

Its propably depends on subject but after finding my niches i notice in one year time i got slowly replaced and my avrage $100 per month per that subject dropped to few $. I went heavy on that subject and i menaged to increse sales just for that subject to $500 per month get to the first search pages with few similar photos and only way i can keep up up there with every subjest is to how you call it "shoot" my foot few times a month.

Problem is that stock is devaluated allrady so strongly that you need go into quantity over quality to stay relevant. Your work need to be as low as the payment is.

I do stock photography for money and i do not put any passion into it as no one pays for it anymore. I leave passion and quality photography to myself and privat clients. I shoot snapshots for stock on walk with dog or in my backyard.

Lets be honest its the matter of time when Adobe goes sub 10c and SS sub 0.1c. The way i counter this is lower my work time on assets/quality. And pick 10 simlars from batch cost me almost no time if i dont focus on edits. Then sprea that similars uploads through month with help of Software like Stock submitter and with press of one button send to every agency i know...

Stock isnt Art what i try to say.

 

10
At the end of the day, this is not a good deal for us.

Many of my proposed photos gathered much more than $5 elsewhere, while AS didn't do a good job in promoting them..,..

1. so, adding them to AS makes sense as you'll get more than they've earned
2. buyers at other sites are unlikely to find same images among AS free

and have those images made $5 on other sites in the last year??

My point is that many "buyers" will just be satisfied with free, instead of paying for something else.
So instead of driving additional sales (as this new business model is expecting), it will rather prevent regular sales to be made.

Yes, we get $5, for a photo, but that will kill sales and the earnings for other contributors with a similar subject. The losses will exceed $5, because nothing beats free.

We don't shoot ourselves in the foot, indeed (because we get $5).
We rather shoot each other in the feet (because we will both lose more than $5, when we compete against each other with free vs paid)

It looks to me like John Nash's game theory, described in A Beautiful Mind: what is the best outcome for the individuals is not always the best outcome for the group.

"Yes, we get $5, for a photo, but that will kill sales and the earnings for other contributors "

I produce couple hunderets assets per month and giving away free images is marketing and promoting for me (still not free as they pay) always did it and it worked for me every time. I dont mind giving away assets that not selling and im constantly working on making better and more saleable assets.
 I think the problem starts when someone expect his old portfolio to sell forever then other contributtors that produce new assets will outpreform them in few months free or not anyway.

If you active and working to make more, customers always will need new and actual photos. If there will be free photo of location that travel agency will use they will need more most likely and wont use one photo forever because it was free. If there is customer that use only free photo he wont be on adobe but pexel, unsplash etc. so someone i dont care about anyway and most likely he never bought photos anyway.
 
Its about real customers that constantly need photos for company etc. If someone come for free photos only most likely he never bought photos anyway.

"We rather shoot each other in the feet"

There is no we in sales, we compete against each other free or not best assets gets more sales and everyone is assessing best that works for them. Would be silly to lose oportunity to earn more because i want someone else to sell their photos better.

Just my point of view.

11
I've had 2 photos approved for the Free Price Tier so far.

I was told that I had 168 images eligible for the free collection.

I hope this doesn't turn into a damp squib!

Don't expect too much. Nominations were done by system not humans, most likly by count of views on each photo. Actual review was done by moderators that judge if photos are worth upfront $5 for Adobe. I think some photos could be more valuable even for Adobe to stay with contributor as have more potential for future sales. Free photos work as a advertisement of simlar photos on contributor profile so it's better to pick less attractive version of that theme.

12
Hi Mat
Would be great to know what's the plan with next review waves. In what frequency they are planed to be done and approximately how many more is scheduled. I think everyone want to know what to expect next and for many it's grate crash injection during that time. Can we know what is the plan for next month? Can we expect anything more this month or next turn will be made next month?
Thanks

13
Did they pay you already for the images that are accepted in the free collection?

I see there is a new button: "Filter by Price Tier", that shows the free images.

No payment yet.

Thats the fun part no payment yet photos available for download... Is that how it works on Adobe ? I use photos first and pay when i want to?

14
Will payments come through individually as they're reviewed or a lump sum?

Pretty sure individualy, if they pick 5 of 1000 nominated you propably gonna see five 5$ sales for picked photos like you see regular sales.

15

About 4 sales rule it does make a difference as many summer assets start to sell again and in one month brings much more than 5$ per 12months.


And you were not able to consider this when you had the option to pick which photos to offer Adobe for 5$ until 2 days ago?   ???

If you had any images in your port where you expected sales to really take off during summer, you probably should not have checked the box that allowed Adobe to pick the image for the free collection.

And you were not able to consider to read the question before answering? Its not your busines what i did or did not and even more im not iterested in your opinion with attitude of all know someone without answer.

If you have crystal ball and know what will sell good for you. Question was simple and obviously you arent the person that can answer it unless you work for Adobe.

16
Thanks for the input. The filter for nominated assets remains in place by design. This way you can still see what is currently nominated. After the first selection is complete for the free collection (in the next week or two), you will also be able to filter and see only images in the free collection vs. paid. The images that are not approved in this initial round will continue to have the "in review" indicator in the dashboard as the approval process will be ongoing through the summer. The approvals will happen incrementally to make sure that we don't add too much content at any given time.

thanks again,

Mat

That raises a question for me that i don't believe was addressed here yet.

 Are the nominated photos while in "review" still sell as a paid ones for contributor? And if that so what about 4 or less downloads in last 12 months rule? What if while in review they will sell more than 4 times? Will they be removed from nomination/review state ??

I think its very important as if we wasent paid for it yet they dont belong to Adobe free collection, basicly agreement isnt validated yet.

I think this answers your first question:
Quote
Yes. Your nominated Adobe Stock asset will remain available for licensing in the paid collection unless and until it is approved and moved to the free collection.
https://helpx.adobe.com/stock/contributor/help/free-collection-contributor-information.html

That with more than 4 sales is not a hard and fast rule, IMO. I don't see any disadvantage in an image  being sold while waiting, if you nominated it for free anyway.

First quote is about nominations but dosnt clear up if photos that are now in review or stay like this for months will sell normaly till approved. Im guessing they should but recently in stock nothing is like it should.

About 4 sales rule it does make a difference as many summer assets start to sell again and in one month brings much more than 5$ per 12months.

Im not discusing if its fair or not but if we had any detailed info about it. That way if nominations come again for new photos or videos we know everything behind process before agree again.

The problem is not if nomination sell during review time but if they dont sell. They should sale as long they not directly to download in free collection.

17
The banner is gone...

The "Eligible for free collection" checkbox on the dashboard isn't - they apparently forgot to remove that :) The nominate slider is gone on the supposedly eligible images though.

As they aren't updating what's eligible/not eligible (as images have made sales that would qualify or disqualify them through the period this offer was live, they didn't add/remove them).

Mat, perhaps you could call a clean-up crew to remove the check box?

Thanks for the input. The filter for nominated assets remains in place by design. This way you can still see what is currently nominated. After the first selection is complete for the free collection (in the next week or two), you will also be able to filter and see only images in the free collection vs. paid. The images that are not approved in this initial round will continue to have the "in review" indicator in the dashboard as the approval process will be ongoing through the summer. The approvals will happen incrementally to make sure that we don't add too much content at any given time.

thanks again,

Mat

That raises a question for me that i don't believe was addressed here yet.

 Are the nominated photos while in "review" still sell as a paid ones for contributor? And if that so what about 4 or less downloads in last 12 months rule? What if while in review they will sell more than 4 times? Will they be removed from nomination/review state ??

I think its very important as if we wasent paid for it yet they dont belong to Adobe free collection, basicly agreement isnt validated yet.




18
I have there around $400 sales are more or less like on bigstock for me. Didn't payout yet as never send the tax Form and without it they will charge 20% tax. Problem is you need to do it via Post they won't take email Version due to some laws in Japan... I filled up the form few months ago but never send it 🤷‍♂️

19
Hi, thanks for replay. Usually thats the case, I know it take little more time and so far it worked fine.

But now its processing for 3 days constantly and not submitting. Finally i did submit manualy on the Dreamstime site and Stock submitter is still processing.

Pretty sure it stuck, I reinstaled even program and it didnt help.

I will let them know of the issue, hopefully they can improve the release processing times.

Hi, so nothing changed for me, i still stuck with Dreamstime. Is there any way to reset that process? by editing some files or delating some process
queue log ?
Its quite annoying as i do pay for subbmition subscription. i did submit all assets that require model relase manualy on Dreamstime website. So it is Stocksubmitter issue for sure.

There is no assets with MR on my Dreamstime account that need to be edited or pending aproval. Yet if i try to submit anything through StockSubbmitter it shows me "processing realases" but there is no Relases uploaded just photos without it.

Untitled" border="0

The problem is that their new API doesn't allow to upload releases directly to them, they tell us to upload them by FTP and then wait for them to be processed.
And the processing times are quite long (sometimes dozens of minutes for a release...)
We have asked them to implement a way to upload a release without using the FTP (so it wouldn't be so slow) but we're still waiting for them.
So the only solution for now is to keep waiting, eventually it'll finish the processing. It can be quite long, especially if you have many releases attached to the current batch.

Thank you, for detailed explenation, my biggest worry was that problem is on my side and somehow i stuck with the issue and cant do anything about it.
 I will do releases by myself and use Stocksubmitter just for assets that dont require MR till that get resolved. Just hope it wont take months to process the ones i already sent.

Thanks again for fast reply.
 

20
Hi, thanks for replay. Usually thats the case, I know it take little more time and so far it worked fine.

But now its processing for 3 days constantly and not submitting. Finally i did submit manualy on the Dreamstime site and Stock submitter is still processing.

Pretty sure it stuck, I reinstaled even program and it didnt help.

I will let them know of the issue, hopefully they can improve the release processing times.

Hi, so nothing changed for me, i still stuck with Dreamstime. Is there any way to reset that process? by editing some files or delating some process
queue log ?
Its quite annoying as i do pay for subbmition subscription. i did submit all assets that require model relase manualy on Dreamstime website. So it is Stocksubmitter issue for sure.

There is no assets with MR on my Dreamstime account that need to be edited or pending aproval. Yet if i try to submit anything through StockSubbmitter it shows me "processing realases" but there is no Relases uploaded just photos without it.

Untitled" border="0

21
Hi, thanks for replay. Usually thats the case, I know it take little more time and so far it worked fine.

But now its processing for 3 days constantly and not submitting. Finally i did submit manualy on the Dreamstime site and Stock submitter is still processing.

Pretty sure it stuck, I reinstaled even program and it didnt help.

22
Recently I cannot submit anything to Dreamstime, it does upload normaly to the site but not going with submit procces any further.
All i get is processing releases... no errors in log

Anyone with that problem?

Thanks

23
General Stock Discussion / Re: To start a Microstock Union
« on: June 03, 2020, 14:53 »
With all due respect, I think the stock producer community is far from unorganized.

We might not have an official representative, but as you can see right now we are perfectly capable to organize all kinds of actions together very successfully.

This community is deeply networked, we pick up comments, observations, share our thoughts, articles, make calculations very, very quickly.

Unions existed in the days before the internet.

Today you have instant communication  worldwide and hundreds of producer online groups.

In times of crisis, the microstockgroup often becomes the main information and discussion platform in the English speaking community.

There are similar boards in other languages.

Day to day chitchat might have moved elsewhere...but this is still the place for discussions in emergencies. Here the agencies cannot control us, intimidate us or silence our voices.

And if anyone is worried they can use a different alias, maybe just let Tyler know.

This informal, but extremly effective network, is our union.

No fees, no rituals, no board, no elections...just pure connected brainpower that analyses situations with incredible speed because we all contribute our thoughts.

Even top contributors dropped to 10-17 c per subscription  sale... In my case at last 95% are subscription sales just got $2.20 for 19 sold so 1/3 what I us to get. I had before many over $1 and over $2 dolar sales. My average minimum on SS was 15, now third day I'm getting little bit over $5

24
My wife told me that she read on a Russian forum that some contributors had a contract, a real contract on paper, and that Shutterstock couldn't change it (so easily).
I don't know if it's true, but anything is possible...

It doesn't matter ther is no fix earnings in the contract. Contract basicly say they can change earnings per photo how ever and whenever they want.

25
Shutterstock.com / Re: May sales drop dramatically?
« on: May 13, 2020, 03:07 »
Well, its normal for me sales went down around 50% in first week of may but picking up now. Im in stock only 3 years now but i learned that everything can happen. Lets remember what we sell and to whom. I live in Austria and almost everything is opened back, 15th of May restaurants will be opened.
BUT Im not selling everything on Austrian market so need to take for account what is going on in every country im selling in photos.

Solution?  Just keep creating new stuff and wait like we always do.

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