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Messages - zeljkok

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101
Adobe Stock / Re: Time for a redesign?
« on: April 07, 2022, 18:19 »

Oh I forgot that part. If there was one feature I'd like it's easy access to our own work, so we can verify, edit and revise. The whole find it, copy then go somewhere else and paste to edit is beyond functional or easy to use.

Yes. See, that's exactly my point - photo search, editing of keywords etc. - bare bones, but very clunky and user unfriendly.  Why put the effort for something ultra sleek, when it doesn't really bring any profit.

[btw, dumb elephant - you know which one - got 4.50 on Dreamstime today.  Still original one, lol]

102
Adobe Stock / Re: Time for a redesign?
« on: April 07, 2022, 13:20 »
All nice to discuss things of what Adobe could improve and I am sure Mat will be listening in, but does anyone have one example of an idea that was posted here that has been implemented by Adobe, because we would like to have it?
If so, I'll rest my case, but I think they are just listening and nothing else.

Totally agree. You can tell from lots of small things they never intended to put too much effort in contributor interface.  Example is search for photo, if you want to update keywords for instance.  One of most requested features. They figured workaround (search for photo as customer would, note ID, then search by that ID in contributor portal), end of story.

I can understand that philosophy,  as contributor interface is not profitable & thus not worth investing time/effort, so I'm fine as long as functionality is there, even if it needs clunky workaround.  But functionality is still lacking in other parts, and that is the problem

103
General Stock Discussion / Re: This month's sales
« on: April 07, 2022, 00:07 »
My April RPD so far (Apr 6) on SS is, believe or not, 0.144, with 0 DLs last 2 days, which never happened before in midweek even with only tiny tiny port

I have written them off, but it does make me sad as I still remember getting excited about first couple of downloads, then ELs (Samsung high-res monitors), etc. Alamy fire continuing from March into April & I feel much more positive about them on all fronts. It usually works that way

104
Adobe Stock / Re: Time for a redesign?
« on: April 06, 2022, 12:28 »
I'm strongly against any "modern" redising because it usually means slow loading, animations to drop down lists, more clicking, etc... and by that slowing the submission process, which at the moment (for me) is very fast on Adobe Stock.


+1000
"modern" on Internet often goes way over the top, embedded videos that play automatically, pages that refresh 10 times during load, etc etc. 

Adobe in their UI philosophy is known for "less is more" and redundant parts, even if part of general UI standard are often ignored (i.e. why put small button at end of edit box to submit some text, when hitting "Enter" key will do the job).

For me functionality always far outweighs the appearance.  My suggestions for improvement would be:

  • Insights page defaults to last 3 months and reloads itself to that setting.  It is very annoying to specify over and over period you are interested in, ie "Activity" (not top sellers), and since begging of month or today etc.   
  • Editing keywords for accepted asset should have same edit box with comma separated words that is available during first time submission.  Manipulate locally in text editor to any way you like then just copy&paste
  • Provide customer search keyword(s) that led to download / sale.  Most agencies do it and it is tremendous help




Other than that things look fine to me

105
General Stock Discussion / Re: This month's sales
« on: April 04, 2022, 15:11 »
My RPD on Shutterstock has taken nosedive since I stopped uploading, although number of downloads has remained constant.   It would be interesting to see if there is connection?  I doubt as it would need some fine algorithm adjustments which I don't think they can be bothered with.  It is more likely related to overall large sub packages policy shift

106
General Stock Discussion / Re: This month's sales
« on: April 02, 2022, 16:25 »
Quote
Firstly, since Ive begun reporting I have never seen an average return per downloads at Shutterstock below 40cents, with March at just 36cents

SS is total waste of time. My March RPD there is 0.214.  Coupled with senseless AI rejection policy I can't honestly figure any good reason to keep uploading or expect anything there anymore

On Alamy I had BME with RPD 193.94 net & they are, besides Adobe, IMHO only agency out there worth working with

107
Alamy.com / Re: How to opt out of penny sales?
« on: April 01, 2022, 22:21 »
there are several Alamy threads floating around, so I'll post here.  Want to share a tip

Last 6 months or so I've been updating keywords, mostly for my older images when I didn't know how to do it properly.  As result my CTR (click through rate) has gone considerably up.  It is believed CTR impacts Alamy rank;  and lately I've been getting way more sales.   Today, April 1, just got 1st sale of Month, nothing to get excited 19.99 gross, but still

Tip is:  Pay attention to Alamy measures.  These are real search terms, real customers, not AI generated suggestions they serve in other Micros.  Proper keywording is essential tool of the trade, but I have strong feeling for Alamy more important than elsewhere.  And pay special attention to title / super tags;  these have the heaviest weight, similar to first 10 at Adobe - just that with Alamy you have way more freedom than with Adobe

108
Alamy.com / Re: How to opt out of penny sales?
« on: March 31, 2022, 22:48 »
Just a reminder: the ability to opt out of all Distributor sales, or specific countries, is now open.
April is the only time we can opt out.

Thank you for reminder lizworld
Just opted out of Novel and Distro for Africa/Asia/South America

109
My personal philosophy is ....

-Mat Hayward

Excellent stuff as always. I will add 2 things:

1) Never automatically accept AI keyword suggestions.  Some will always be inaccurate.  Not such obvious banana/apple example, but more subtle. Example: I live in Canada Banff National Park and shoot lots of landscapes.  Adobe AI will frequently suggest "alps".  It recognizes mountains but naturally can not geographic affinity and mistake happens.  Big deal some might say. It can be a big deal, if you are customer sitting in France and want some nice shot of Euro Alps but are served Canadian Rockies instead

2) Adobe specific: It would be great if we could get customer search keyword(s) that led to sale.  Other agencies support this.   Alamy has Measures tool, Dreamstime directly tells you "Customer was searching for ...", even Shutterstock has "Insights" where such info is available.  This is great help;  since I started adjusting keywords on Alamy based on Measures, my CTR has gone up which impacted my Alamy rank and I am getting more sales.  Just an idea that would benefit everyone, incl. Adobe itself

110

By the way, last time we were discussing this, I started a test on AL for Description, Keyword and Supertags. I used a nonsense word on some images, to see how it affects rank. Well, I have to admit, I've searched and I didn't write down the word, so I don't remember what it was?  ::) (being old can be difficult?) I checked all kinds of images, I can't remember which ones I tagged

How about "etepelcnu" ("uncle pete" in reverse, one word).  Nobody is going to search for it :) and you can't forget

Re IS managed concept;  it is not that poorly envisioned - indirect phrase concept that expands internally into several indexable keywords.  Problem is that people blindly copy and paste to other agencies, where such phrase won't have any value.  But largest problem with IS to me by far is inability to edit keywords after submission.  This is just dumb,  conditions/knowledge evolves and often you'd like to modify something.  Everyone else allows it, only IS doesn't. Why???  If the intention was to prevent keyword spamming, they should actually QA accurate keywords during submission which of course they don't.   To me IS interface from design standpoint is by margin worst in industry, period

111
Alamy.com / Re: How to opt out of penny sales?
« on: March 29, 2022, 13:09 »
I think this is general issue - what is the lowest price you are willing to accept?  It makes little sense to try to block Novel, Distro etc on Alamy, but accept 10 cent on SS, or penny fractions on IS for same asset. If the threshold is say 1 dollar, it leaves Alamy only (assuming it is possible to block penny sales).  If the threshold is 30 cents, then pull your port only from IS and SS. Etc etc

I got one of these nano DLs on Alamy yesterday too -- 0.23 gross. Makes for quite a wild month there,  0.23 - 1850.00. But as long as there are large sales, even if occasional, it is more than worth supporting Alamy, also making high quality shots exclusive to them

112
No tricks or secrets, describe your image and add keywords that are relevant.

Best advice one could get

It is also why clunky IS managed dictionary concept is hugely flawed.  Nobody in their sane mind is going to search for "light - natural phenomenon"  "looking at view" "wave - water" etc.  But there are many photos with such IS Generated phrases at other sites, where they will be completely useless

113
Alamy.com / Re: Alamy sale for 7 cents
« on: March 28, 2022, 14:58 »
This penny avalanche might not be Novel, but large subscription deal with someone.  After landing on single image, they went through whole port and picked up what they were interested in.

My Alamy experience this month is totally opposite:  (Gross amounts, 2K port size)

75.00
1850.00
14.75


114


This is how it should be at any agency (80/20 rule). I've had customers contact me in the past asking for the original UNEDITED file.  I do believe some post is needed if you're shooting in RAW, but be subtle.  This is not to say that there aren't styles and approaches that use aggressive post, but by in large don't overdo it.  Honestly, I look at some of my old stuff and shake my head, "what in the world was I thinking?"

That's a good point.  I also had customers contacts inquiring about RAW files.

Re "shake my head", I think this is natural evolution of photographer.  I also look at some of my older stuff I thought was great, and now "oh my".  Simply means skills are getting better and thus criteria higher

Also, related to this great discussion, one other issue.  Not post-processing, but light manipulation.  Polarizers.  Yes, great if/when used properly, but can they ever screw the sky, create uneven gradient and basically render what would otherwise be great photo total crap.   Talking about landscape photography.  I find this specially true when air is polluted, ie closer to urban areas.  On the far side in Himalayas where air is super clean, there won't be gradient, but it will often render sky such dark blue it is again unnatural.  Nowdays I'll use polarizer mostly for waterfalls to increase exposure time, rarely for rich blue skies.

2010 Photo:  Sky totally screwed up.  It's not like Ait Benhaddou is around the corner & you can visit at will


2019 Photo.  No Polarizer, no color enhancement.  No sharpening whatsoever. Clouds made a bit brighter only, perhaps too much

115
"Less is more" is part of Adobe company culture that goes beyond stock.  Opposite is Alamy discoverability criteria that requires at least 40 tags for "optimized" label (even if this does not probably have practical importance).  Some agencies (IS, AS) do not index title, others (Alamy, DT) put heaviest weight on title.  Then there is IS with clunky and non-portable managed dictionary concept. List goes on.  Bottom line is that it is impossible to come up with identical set of metadata that will be optimized for every agency out there

My take is to focus on the asset without thinking about target agency.  Then as certain photo types sell better on some agencies  refine on individual basis, but only if photo has strong sale potential.  I find Alamy measures tool invaluable as these are real customer search terms, while I largely neglect AI suggested keywords.


116

Their margins cannot be trimmed more. Well, yes, if they pay 0.03 for download. I am sure many would be still uploading. Heck I think if they would make contributors pay 0.01$ per upload there would be people uploading too  :D

Yes, and this is big part of reason why they could get away with "10 cent restructuring". But we don't have full picture - there might be 'big cats' (studios, with 100s of 1000s of images) with special deals, search rank  promotions etc.  Small operators, like most of us here, are not important for the business and thus getting extinct

Mat came here the other day and posted about Adobe rejection criteria related to color saturation, "less is more" etc.  Why can't someone from SS come here and post "look guys this is why you are getting rejections.  We are looking for ..."  But no, they couldn't be bothered, just like they couldn't be bothered to maintain Forum etc etc

I am not SS hater, actually think many things in their contributor facing portal are still best in business.  But disrespectful treatment of contributors which are the backbone of whole business has gone over the top

117
In our country there is a saying : "When the goats are saturated, they start to grumble".

GettyGoats, DreamGoats and other MicroGoats are saturated too, but only in Shutter Barn they are biting the hand that feeds them.  It is their barn and they have the right to choose if they want to be fed, or not.  But we also have the right to choose which goats we are going to feed, and that is in my view the bottom line.

Interesting observation.  Since I stopped feeding ShutterGoats, my downloads have remained constant but are now almost exclusively 10 cent subs, where as before it was a mix of Subs, ODD, SOD and occasional EL.  Is this related? Don't think so but this month DreamGoats and ShutterGoats are in tight race for bottom place which was unthinkable just 6 months ago.

118


I'm afraid. I'm afraid, Dave. Dave, my mind is going. I can feel it. I can feel it. My mind is going. There is no question about it. I can feel it. I can feel it. I can feel it. I'm a... fraid.

Real question is: How to perform lobotomy on SS 9000?

119
They have a Hal 9000 system doing reviews now.
This one genuinely made me laugh.


I also thought Hal 9000 reference was brilliant.  Younger generation might not get it though

120
Uncle Pete summarized it best.  They have too many images and simply don't care.  Just like SS Forum; allow commercial spam for months and then finally shut down because it was easier than moderate posts.

Contacting reviewers will do nothing.  Uploads are filtered by AI, we can only guess criteria but I'd not be surprised if common themes i.e. Easter shots are automatically rejected. 

You can spend hours trying to outsmart HAL 9000, maybe push some images through.  High end gear, pro techniques - Tripod, Cable release, Focus stacking ...  And then get 10 cents in return. Is it really worth time and effort?


121

I have discussed this extensively with our moderation team and when I asked what was the most common reason for rejection, there was exactly zero hesitation before I received the answer "oversaturation." Again, less is more. I use the vibrance slider almost exclusively in LRC and almost never the saturation slider for this reason. I do like to replace the sky from time to time, but as noted here, it should look like it belongs.

-Mat Hayward

This is golden

122
I think some people go overboard in post-processing just to get noticed.  Screaming colors, bad HDR's, etc. So if buyer has screen of 100 image icons naturally one that screams the loudest will get attention first

My take is that to be successful in stock, you have to enjoy photography first. Sole motivation can not be just to get sales; if it is, it will almost certainly result in disappointment.  As an example this is my 2nd most downloaded shot on AS:



I analyzed the scene, waited for right conditions, came back with tripod, etc. Really enjoyed whole experience, not thinking about $$ potential.  Amount of post-processing?  Noise removal in shadows and bit of enhancement of cabin light only

123
Thanks for the examples Zeljkok, I find your images all very appealing. With the saturation you have held back but. And against a replacement of a boring sky speaks nothing.

Rightdx, the reality often looks boring and dreary. But I was referring more to the examples in my link, there I can not understand the bestsellers. The images are not only unrealistic, but in my opinion technically poorly implemented.

But sometimes I can't stop myself either:

Ralf - I am big sucker for skies & this looks great


Would need to see at 100% how good are the edges at horizon, specially at right side where highrises touch the sky, as that is the hardest part with sky replacement

But, as someone mentioned, does it help the sales? Not sure it does;  stock photography is not about pretty images, rather illustrating concepts where artistic appeal is usually secondary.   

124
This is great topic. If we brush aside question is it worth spending time post-processing for 10 cent reward,  to me it is always function of image itself, or rather what message image is trying to convey. Artistic, realistic, something else.  There are purists out there that believe post-processing is cheating and image should be not altered digitally.  On the other side are people that consider RAW file just a starting Photoshop canvass where end result resembles little starting point.

Here are 2 of my own examples of what I consider now bad post-processing:

1)


This is what the original looks like and has well over 100 DL's on SS


2)

Poorly replaced sky. Original was dull and grey.  But this doesn't look natural.  Few DLs only on DT


And here is example of what I consider appropriate sky replacement (original was steel grey);  someone might disagree, but I like end result






125
iStockPhoto.com / Re: February statements are in
« on: March 20, 2022, 13:37 »
Average month for IS , with RPD ~0.47.   Could not be bothered to look at details, just get depressed looking at Connect "sales".   

Consistently now outperforming SS for several months though

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