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Messages - StockManiac

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276
LuckyOliver.com / Re: goony promotion
« on: August 25, 2006, 10:23 »
Just because a comment is negative doesn't mean it shouldn't be said publicly.

I totally agree with this. This forum is for open discussion. It is not for only positive "Woo Yahs". We are here to discuss the pros AND cons of the industry and the sites.

There are a lot of people reading here and if some of them are considering uploading to places like LO and they read comments like some of what i've read here today, then they may certainly think that they shouldn't join up.

I don't think that finding photographers will be a problem for any new start up site. There are plenty of people that want to get started in microstock that are not yet up to the standards at IS and SS that will submit to LO. There are also plenty of people that already submit to other sites (including IS and SS) that will submit to LO. Lack of photos is definitely not the major issue for any microsite. The lack of buyers is the major problem.

Granted, you need photos to attract buyers, but just give it some time.

And I also agree that the promotional was a little off base.  At first it made me laugh, but then I looked at some of the ingredients and wondered about it...

277
iStockPhoto.com / iStock Stirs the Pot Once Again
« on: August 25, 2006, 09:55 »
To all of you that currently, or plan to, use models in your photos.  SUBMITTER BEWARE!

Here is a story that you might find helpful.

====

A photo of an elderly gentleman sitting in a chair was used in an ad for a strip club.  In the ad, he is shown holding dollar bills, sitting in front of a topless girl that is stripping, with sex toys everywhere around him.

The photographer of the image was very concerned for the elderly man, since she thought that iStock would protect her images from "sensitive" situations such as this, and never thought that iStock would allow something of this nature.  She asked that they remove the image from the design, but it was denied.  She was very disheartened by the whole thing and has decided to remove the image from the site for future purchases.

Many other photographers, including some of the major players, have decided to join suit and remove their images with models.

Some of the major issues seem to be the following:

1. The IS TOS (Terms of Service) (@ http://www.istockphoto.com/license.php) state that it is prohibited to use an image of a model in a manner that (a) would lead a reasonable person to think that they endorse a business, or (b) depicts them in any way that would be offensive or unflattering.  The ad obviously violates both.

But IS has decided to provide a lot of legalese that basically says that the TOS are ambiguous at best and that they are the only ones that can decipher the TOS and decide whether the use of an image is breaking the TOS.  This has upset a lot of people.

2. If the TOS don't protect against this sort of situation, then what does it protect against?  If a child were placed in the ad instead of an elderly gentleman, would IS have stepped in?  Is topless not enough?  What about bottomless from the rear?  What are the constraints?  Once again, IS has evaded the question with a bunch of legalese.  So nobody now knows how an image can or can't be used.  Basically, the TOS is worthless.

3. Even if an image is obviously breaking the TOS, how can IS even enforce it?  With IS in Canada, photographers around the world, and buyers everywhere in between who has jurisdiction?  For example, if an image of a model's face is placed over a nude body and then placed on a porno site in another country, how can it be enforced?

4. There are images in the IS database that are insensitive in the first place.  Images of sexual body parts, homosexuals kissing, etc.  How can an insensitive image be used in a sensitive way?  Once again, no answer from IS.

IMO, iStock should have stepped in and at least tried to go after the buyer to remove the image.  This would have showed that they truly do care about their "community" of photographers.  Their silence on this shows their true colors.  The TOS is there to protect them and nobody else.

This whole topic has obviously opened a lot of eyes to how IS operates.

And to top it all off, IS has locked the thread.

To view the original image, go here:

http://www.istockphoto.com/forum_messages.php?threadid=38581&page=1

Here is the ad:

http://www.istockphoto.com/design_spotlight_fileview.php?size=3&id=6588[/img]

Here is the website that used the ad:

http://www.electricdisco.com/index.php?page=home

278
They claim to have over 35,000 photos, but I'm not sure that I believe them.

I searched for the following:

dog: 4 results
flag: 8 results
flower: 51 results

279
iStockPhoto.com / Re: Is it just me?
« on: August 22, 2006, 15:02 »
amanda:

1. I was not talking about locking old threads, nor threads that are extremely inflamatory towards iStock, but rather normal threads that question some things at IS. It seems you can't question anything there.

2. VOX is a failure for a variety of reasons:

a. Because they didn't include their "community" at any part of the process. They didn't ask contributors how they would feel about larger than normal thumbnails with the watermark moved out of the way (making it easy to pirate the image). They didn't ask how photographers would feel about their models being inserted (for FREE mind you) on a controversial blog. And ultimately, they didn't provide an easy way to opt-out of the VOX deal (you have to opt out of all "Promotional Use").
b. People found out about the deal (thru the grapevine). When they tried to discuss it on the IS forums, the thread was locked more than once.

I'm not sure how you can feel that a business deal with bloggers is going to gain you much.

3. As far as Peebert is concerned:

If IS "is a business" (as you so aptly put), I can't understand how they can let a person with such a foul mouth run their storefront. Don't they understand simple etiquette and business practices? I wonder how long a person with such a foul mouth would last at the IBM forums, or even working at the local fast food restaurant?

Are they trying to run a family business or a business down in the red-light district?

I didn't have to search hard before I found a thread started by Peebert titled "Does anybody give a hot slice of crap about the Summer Olympics?" Not only does he use his normal barrage of curses in this thread, but he also manages to disparage Christianity as a sidebar.

4. I'm glad that you agree on at least one issue.

5. For a site that sells per image sales, a 20 cent commission is the lowest in the industry. The only reason they do it is because they can. If they truly cared about the "community", then they might want to try and help out some of the artists that are tyring to make ends meet.

And you shouldn't compare SS, because they have a totally different model (subscription based vs. per image). But even if you do, SS still wins.

But the bottom line is that all of the microstock sites need to raise the bar.

IS is currently one of the biggest, but mark my words that they will fall.

280
iStockPhoto.com / Re: Is it just me?
« on: August 22, 2006, 13:09 »
amanda:

There are a few major reasons why people have the attitude that they have towards iStock.

1. Try posting a "controversial" thread on iStock and see how fast the Admins will lock the thread.  And if you are real lucky, you might even receive a warning from them.

One of the things that I find unbelievable is the amount of locked threads on that site.  Yet they continue to talk about their "community" and how much they care about their members.  Hogwash!

Peehead is a real idiot.  He curses constantly and thinks that he is the cats meow.  The only reason nobody says anything to him is because they are scared of being banished.

2. There is a definite "conceited" attitude at iStock.  This shows up on their boards, in their reviews, and how they make announcements without consulting any of the "community" that they purport to love so much.

The Vox announcement is just the latest in a string of ideas that blew up in their face.  And it shows that they have no regard towards their contributers.  They just want to pad their already overflowing pockets.

3. There is no real way to challenge rejections.  I know, I know.  Scout.  But what percentage of photos are actually overturned.  From what I have read, a very small percentage.

I had a rejection once that basically said it was not suitable for stock.  I opened up a ticket with Scout because I thought that the Inspector had gotten it wrong.  I told Scout that they already had a few accepted images that were similar to mine in their database and I wanted to know how they could accept those, but not mine.  I waited a few months (yes, a few months) for Scout to tell me that the images that they had accepted (about 2 or 3) were sufficient to represent the subject and they didn't need anymore.  What a bunch of BS!  2 or 3 images in a database of over 1 million is supposed to be representative of the unique subject matter that I was trying to present?  Well that image has been accepted at over a half dozen other agencies, including Shutterstock and Dreamstime, and has been selling quite well.

4. Last, but not least, IS has the lowest payscale (for purchasing single images) in the industry.  20 cents for an image is a real travesty.  When do you think they will become the market leader (that they claim to be) and raise the bar on image prices?  Or when do you think they might start to give some of those buckets of money back to the contributors that made them who they are today?

Basically, all of these things (and a lot more) all add up to the resentment that you are seeing.

And it is the reason why this site and the Yahoo Groups site were started in the first place.  To enable the open discussion of the microstock industry.

If it was within their power, I guarantee that they would shut these sites down quicker than one of your photos could be rejected...

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