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Messages - stockastic

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3976
Thanks racephoto for a good historical comparison.   It's becoming clearer all the time that microstock as it is today probably isn't sustainable.  Basically we're working in a sweatshop, we have no collective bargaining power.

The only value the agencies add is screening for image quality.  If there were a way around that, we could eventualy  do without them and sell directly to buyers. You will laugh, but - why not Ebay? Mainly  because Ebay's user interface isn't sophisticated enough to view hundreds of thumbnails; but that's just a technical issue for Ebay which they could certainly address.

I'm thinking of a paid screening service, where competent people look at your images for a few cents apiece and certify itheir basic quality Once this service had some credibilty and buyers started to accept it, we could sell direct through various means.  Ebay, personal sites, "coop" sites where we pool resources to get advertising and Google ranking....

If history teaches us one thing it is to find a way to CUT OUT THE MIDDLEMAN.

3977
Remember the old saying about how you can put a frog in a pot and if you raise the temperature slowly enough, there is never a point at which he decides to jump out - so he gets cooked?  That's how the microstocks got the price of a photo down to 25 cents, over a period of years.

Hey if these sites thought they could charge us to upload, they'd do it.

3978
StockXpert.com / Re: StockXpert rejections...new trend?
« on: April 08, 2009, 13:42 »
All they want now is whatever they think they can sell this week.   

It's going to get crazier, and crazier, and then there's going to be a big shakeout in this business.  The big boys will sit back and tell themselves they've won.  But, they haven't quite been able to destroy the internet itself, and sooner or later another way for small players to market their images will emerge. 


3979
I once read an interesting article about retailing and malls.  Over the years the big clothing stores have ended up selling all the same stuff, and shoppers just got bored and quit going to the malls.  Same thing will happen here to some extent. 
 
Right now these microstocks are just DIY warehouses not adding any value to the product.  They make money by preventing buyers and sellers from communicating directly.   It will take time but things will change. 

3980
I suspect it's about labor costs.  Reviewers have to be a big expense for these companies so they're looking for ways to reduce reviewing hours.  One easy way is to direct reviewers to immediately reject any image of a subject on the "black list" and not spend even any time looking at its technical quality at 100%.

Remember, as these competing agencies are steadily reducing our prices to zero, they're killing themselves too.  The word "commodity" doesn't even describe the situation now.    I predict they'll increasingly focus on current needs (i.e. what big buyers are asking for this month) and try to stop spending time reviewing anything else. 




3981
Let me be devil's advocate for a moment and ask - why do they reject photos for "well covered" subjects anyway?  Don't they want new takes on old subjects?  Don't they advertise their vast number of images?  Do they want the old images to keep selling?  What are they afraid of?

Doesn't every subject become "well covered" eventually?  And then are they just going to stop accepting new photos and lay off the reviewers?


3982
I'm working on a Coppermine mod to sell from my gallery. What is your framework? (in another thread today, I showed some examples).

I've used ASP.NET.   

3983
I would love to sell off my own site.  I'm still fairly new to stock, but I'm a software developer and could certainly create and manage my own sales site.  Like everyone, I'm frustrated by the way microstock has driven prices down to 25 cents, and I want to see a new model start countering that downhill slide. 

What we need I think is some sort of aggregator site that we'd work through.  It wouldn't sell files directly, just point buyers to sites maintained by individual photographers, each of whom could set their own prices.  The aggregate site could have searching, by keywords or maybe some better scheme yet to emerge.  It would have a "name" that could be marketed, and would establish a common understanding for rights management that all the participants would adhere to. 

I guess what I'm thinking of is a sort of coop model where photographers could combine their image archives for search purposes but cut out these parasitic microstock middlemen that add no value to the product and simply drive prices through the floor for short-term profits.   However, an aggregate site could still make money by selling memberships to photographers.


3984
Yeah they just nailed me too for "well covered subjects".   

How long before one of these agencies simply starts posting a list of subjects they currently want, and stops accepting anything else?

And how is a new submitter supposed to know whether a subject is "well covered"? 

3985
Adobe Stock / Re: I am so sick of Fotolia rejects..
« on: April 04, 2009, 18:54 »
Being only a few months into this, I've had to learn how to manage the aggravation of rejections that I don't agree with.  I think you simply have to submit to several sites, which you want to do anyway if you hope to make more than bus fare. 

I remember a couple of weeks ago I submitted 3 photos (let's call them A, B, and C) to SS,DT and StockXpert at the same time.   SS accepted A and B,  rejected  C.   DT accepted C, rejected A and B.   StockXpert acccepted A and C but said B needed a property release.  I am not making this up. 

Once you realize it's all a bit crazy, it won't bother you as much.   If this were real life,  we'd be talking to actual people who would explain to us why they don't think they can sell a particular product we've made.  But in this Bizzarro-world of dot-com insanity we have disinterested reviewers, somewhere, with eyes glazing over as they click accept or reject on thousands upon thousands of photos submitted by unknown photographers who are never allowed to meet actual customers, but are supposed to keep guessing what the market actually wants.





3986
I'm already getting used to the weird rejections.  As I think other posters have pointed out, they don't like selective focus or narrow DOF (they call those "technical problems) and they don't like nature.   I can deal with that.  However in my first couple of weeks with FT my photos have received essentially no views and I've made exactly 30 cents.  So it's not looking like the place for me.





3987
Dreamstime.com / Re: uploads still hosed
« on: April 03, 2009, 18:12 »
I'd do that but I'm worried about ending up with duplicates.  If the files still don't show up tomorrow, I'll assume they're gone.

3988
Dreamstime.com / uploads still hosed
« on: April 03, 2009, 16:40 »
It looks like DT's upload process is still flaky. Today I uploaded 9 via FTP.  4 hours later, 3 are showing up in "Unfinished", 1 is still visible in the FTP directory and the others are.... in limbo somewhere I guess. 

3989
I think it's mostly a matter of labor costs.  If a micro really wants to improve the quality of their existing archives , they'd have to hire, train and supervise competent people to look at millions of images and make decisions. 

Microsotock started out as a get-rich-quick dot-com concept.  Set up a web site and a database, and submitters will climb over each other to give you plenty of product for nothing in advance.  Then sell it dirt-cheap. Conitnue until the market is saturated.  After that - um, well no plan I guess.  Other than search engines, they add no value to the product and as the effectiveness of their search engines declines, even that value is lost.

I don't want the microstocks to fail, I want them to re-invest some profits and make the business sustainable.




3990
Dreamstime.com / Re: Why is DT being stupid?
« on: April 03, 2009, 09:36 »
Your story is causing me to re-evaluate my use of Dreamstime.  I might want to be exclusiive, somewhere else, someday

I'm pretty sure DT has a way of taking all your files offline real quick if you do something they don't like, or if they have a legal issue with someone's images.   DT has a weird corporate personality - look at the way they obsessively censor their forum. 

3991
Interesting to speculate on where this leads.  At the rate images are being accepted by these sites, how long will it be until every distinguishable object on the face of the earth has been shot? At that point there will be nothing left to photograph but newly created things.  Stock photographers will be standing in line outside stores where new products are about to be put on the shelves.  We'll elbow past each other to buy them, race home to photograph and submit.

Somewhat more seriously, it is clear to me that the micros are trying to be more selective - rather suddenly, and in a big way.  They've taken in way,way too much junk and buyers are no longer impressed by 8 million vs. 5 million images.  If they want to compete on quality, that's fine but what should their strategy be to achieve that? Just dropping photos that haven't sold in 2 years while dialing up the standards for new photos  is too simple.  If you're rejecting new photos that are actually better than what you already have - and not deleting old photos that wouldn't meet the new criteria  - how fast are things really improving?  

3992
There is just one rejection I couldn't seem to let go of. I think it's the best photo I've ever done, period, although it wouldn't be of interest to everyone, and that "aesthetic standards" thing just stuck going down.  Fotolia apparently doesn't have an appeal process, but they have an "Academy Board" forum section in which you can post rejected photos and supposedly get feedback. I did so and never got a reply.  I'm trying to move on with my life, now, but it's difficult.  The rejection of that photo haunts me.

3993
It only bothers me when they reject photo that I know is good and has been selling elsewhere. 

3994
Fotolia has also turned out to be my harshest critic by far.  :(

They reject photos that all other sites accepted. Even phots that IS accepted (!).  They reject my best sellers.  And always with that snotty line about not meeting their "level of aesthetic quality".   Couldn't they change that to something with a bit less edge, maybe "not what we're looking for"?


3995
I also got a couple of 5 cent backups out of the blue.  Of course, there's no way to know if ANY sales revenues are actually being reported. It's a weird business where there's no 'inventory' as such.  It's not like I could upload 10 copies of an image and be notified when they'd all been sold, and it was time to upload some more. 

3996
Dreamstime.com / Re: Why DT is not working for me?
« on: March 28, 2009, 14:27 »
Thanks stormchaser I feel better now.

While trying to learn this business I've been posting on several microstock forums.  Some are unafraid of criticism and let users exchange all sorts of opinions and frustrations.  Those forums are fun and stimulate my interest in trying to get better at this game.

A couple, like DT, apparently see a forum as ad copy to be created by users at no charge -  "woo-hoo, I'm having my BME" etc.    I work in software development and bare-kniuckle criticism from users is always very valuable.  It  tells us where additional work would  really pay off.


3997
Dreamstime.com / Re: Why DT is not working for me?
« on: March 27, 2009, 18:39 »
I've tried the same files twice over a 5 day period. They never showed up.  I guess I'll try once more, then give up.

3998
Dreamstime.com / Re: Why DT is not working for me?
« on: March 27, 2009, 16:31 »
I've been unable to upload anything for a week now. I FTP the files successfully, they may or may not eventually disappear from the server, but never show up as "Unfinished".  I noticed that when people complained on the DT forum; those threads were quickly closed and in at least one case a sarcastic post was quickly deleted, by the admin I assume.

Anyone know what's going on?  If they're having problems, why the secrecy and the forum paranoia?

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