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Messages - spike

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26
The Adobe rep who started this thread hasn't been back lately to answer for this crap situation. Here's a question Mat, from Abobe. If I pull my images of your site dose Adobe get to use them in perpetuity in your ai firefly system? If so, what date was this in perpetuity clause put into the artist agreement?

Mat is trying to be helpful, but my feeling is that there's a low probability of you getting an answer to that, or any other difficult questions posed in this thread. How the expression goes - these may be above his pay grade.

I appreciate what Mat is doing, and I also have a feeling he's doing a lot behind the scenes - these deals and stuff with royalty adjustments likely could have gone a lot worse if Mat weren't here to advocate for contributors.

But let's not kid ourselves, they have a whole legal department which is responsible for stuff like this, and it's a lot more likely that you'll get a response if you send (physical) mail there, preferably through a lawyer.

27
Yuri Arcurs is not your guide, he's your competition. (and you're his)

Of course it's in his interest to suggest something that will take away from the time you're productive, such as changing 50% of keywords on images that are similar. :D

28
Adobe Stock / Re: Account blocked - I need help please
« on: September 06, 2023, 12:59 »
Just to keep you all up to date:

My account (which was blocked for 8 days) was reactivated late last Thursday evening - 19 images were removed that contained an illegal term/trademark - Thanks again for helping me out here @Mat/Adobe.

Since the account has been reactivated, I have noticed a massive drop in downloads - from an average of 23 per working day (yes, that's not soooo many for some of you) to now 8 per working day on average, a drop of about 35%.

Almost all my images that were doing well before the account are now not selling at all - only one image from my Top20 list had two sales today.

The question I'm asking myself now is: Will the account block also expose you to further mechanisms afterwards that will throw you completely back to the end of the queue (or close to it) in the ranking?
Because before the 8-day block, the account was doing increasingly better.

In the AdobeStock Discord I unfortunately only received this very general sentence as an answer to this question:
"Sales are determined by what the buyers are looking for. It's possible that the recent slump was just a temporary one and sales will pick up again based on the changing needs and preferences of the buyers."

That sucks. Hopefully your sales stabilize.

I'm surprised by your average # of sales per day.. your portfolio seems to have more than 100 pages, and most of the content looks like AI (I haven't checked in detail - please correct me if I'm wrong). 23 downloads per day for a port of at least 10k images seems rather low.

Also, a drop from 23 to 8 isn't 35%, it's a 65% drop. Maybe you meant to say your sales are 35% of previous sales (not a 35% drop).

29
Adobe Stock / Re: Adobe Stock generative AI reminders
« on: September 02, 2023, 22:39 »
I clicked on this interior that Jo Ann posted and found that apart from bad interiors, their portfolio is full of Barbie IP infrigements!

If only there were a method to report this to Adobe... for example, a Discord channel..

30
Adobe Stock / Re: Adobe Stock generative AI reminders
« on: September 02, 2023, 10:35 »
For genAI content acceptances, the parade of awfuls continues (just in case anyone was thinking things were improving somehow). Too many images in recent approvals shouldn't have been submitted; given that they were, they should have been rejected (I stopped after page 10; my brain needs a break)

I'll show just two as examples

The interior was one of a series - all of them full of ridiculous visual errors and technically a mess too (blurry patches, objects that fade or float, jagged lines, etc.)

Titles are misleading, keywords are worse and the images not quirky enough to be fantasy but too broken to represent reality.

Other than being able to boast about the numbers in the genAI collection, I can't see any point, not even for training. Train AI on this content and the results will be even scarier.

Adobe, please rein in this mess. You can be so much better than this if you want to.

I don't think Adobe wants to or has the capabilities to deal with this.

Just recently, they closed their discord channel where contributors could post links to genAI works that shouldn't have ever passed review. At the same time, they implemented a server-wide rule that anyone linking to another contributors' work gets a 24 hour (or longer?) ban

To me, these are clear symbols that Adobe wants to pretend that everything is fine. As long as you don't acknowledge something, it doesn't exist, right?

I'm glad there are still independent forums like MSG where posts like this exist. On Adobe's discord, Jo Ann, you would have been banned.

31
General Stock Discussion / Re: Funny shutterstock "ethics".
« on: September 01, 2023, 16:17 »
I stopped uploading to SS when they came up with the levels bs. Adobe has more than made up for that "loss".

32
Adobe Stock / Re: Adobe Stock generative AI reminders
« on: August 31, 2023, 08:19 »
Even if it is a few thousand, from countries with lower income...wouldn't that still be cheaper than just one potential US lawsuit with Tesla or Apple?

Reviewers from countries with lower income is what I believe initially led to AI library looking like it does. :)

As for too many files coming in, upload limits solve that very easily.

Yes, I have also suggested that.

I just read that apparently there is a limit around having 700 files in the queue...they could lower that and encourage people to really select the best images and not endless series. Even if they all look lovely, it bogs down searches.

I have over 2k files in the queue for over 3 weeks now, and it's not moving at all. So the limits likely depend on the contributor. I've been with fotolia/adobe for ~15 years.

33
Adobe Stock / Re: Adobe Stock generative AI reminders
« on: August 30, 2023, 19:08 »
What I find so strange - doesn't Adobe have interns, students, trainees?

If they just set up a few people to monitor the fresh ai content coming in and to flag everything with logos, wrong titles...why would they even need the contributors to point out the very obvious logos?

I am sure many people would love to have a job like, especially if they can do it online.

"A few people" isn't enough.

There's roughly over 200k images coming in per day for review. Time yourself and see how many you can inspect in an hour.

34
Adobe Stock / Re: Adobe Stock generative AI reminders
« on: August 30, 2023, 15:14 »
To illustrate my point, from new approvals

Logos - Midjourney loves Apple

.

Specific places - Persepolis was first up



Furious cobra logo (vector)



Warhol, Mondrian and Hockney (same images show up for both search terms), Jackson Pollock, Matisse

Jo Ann, I appreciate your hard work finding these. But putting these on a small forum like this one may not be the best course of action. It's obvious Adobe won't care unless they get hit financially because of this. Have you considered contacting the companies whose rights have been violated directly? How about some tech websites like petapixel?

35
Adobe Stock / Re: Account blocked - I need help please
« on: August 29, 2023, 14:28 »
Yup review has been inconsistent as of lately, some batches get 100% rejection (and I'm a stock contributor for 15 years now and was in top 100 contributors at one point, so it's pretty strange - maybe I bumped my head against something and forgot everything I knew?), and some AI crap with floating hands passes review.

I don't know the inner workings at Adobe, but something needs to be done about that.

36
Adobe Stock / Re: Adobe Stock generative AI reminders
« on: August 29, 2023, 13:13 »


The Apple logos just keep on getting accepted

Fix the review process

At this point, just email Apple. They don't take kindly for having their intellectual property violated.

37
Adobe Stock / Re: Account blocked - I need help please
« on: August 27, 2023, 11:56 »
@Spike:
Just wanted to let you know :-) At least that was a statement from the official AdobeStock Discord channel.

And apparently this is also from the official Adobe Stock Discord channel. Post from last month.



Great, so they said both.

Mat, can we get some clarity?

38
Adobe Stock / Re: Account blocked - I need help please
« on: August 27, 2023, 08:43 »
No, as Adobe's rules does not forbid having multiple accounts anywhere.
Mat, can we get an official word about this from Adobe?
This text (dealing with the same question) is taken from the AdobeStock Discord:

"Adobe does not allow anymore multiple accounts even if you're not banned. If you're banned, you have wait till you get unblocked. Creating a new account will just get your second account blocked too, because you sign TOS as a person, not as an email.
Adobe used to allow making multiple accounts for this, but does not anymore. In the case of blockage, ALL your accounts will be blocked, since you're blocked as a person, not as an account."


A friend was kind enough to post that in a German forum.

I don't think a forum post qualifies as a legally binding document - is there anything in terms of service or contributor guidelines?

I have a few people to report.

39
DepositPhotos / Re: Shocking Deposit
« on: August 27, 2023, 08:41 »
So glad I got rid of this agency last year. No effect on income, and I don't have to be frustrated with stuff like this lol

40
I'm staying waaaay away from all this AI nonsense, but what's the latest on us being compensated for our work being used by Adobe Generative AI tools?

I had fussed about that with the Adobe Express announcement earlier this month. Nothing but crickets from San Jose. I believe the subtlety of Firefly beta being rolled out with Adobe Express - as opposed to Firefly being out of beta - got lost by headline writers. The original promise was that we'd hear about compensation when Firefly was out of beta...

So I think the direct answer to your question is that we know no more than back in March when Adobe announced Firefly.

If I consult my (admittedly broken) crystal ball, I'd say that based on progress so far, Firefly will be in beta for years. Making guesses about Adobe's goals with this announcement, I think it's all about getting the AI buzz wound up for the company as a whole, primarily related to getting the stock price up, and that we (contributors to Adobe Stock) were just the necessary CYA for the messages about Adobe's AI stuff being safe for commercial use. So Firefly could never come to market as a product and Adobe would still be able to win.

There was never anything explicit said about compensation for generative fill in Photoshop even though what I read said to me that it was based on the same training.

Additionally, if you consider that all Adobe's genAI competitors (Midjourney, Dall-E, Stable Diffusion...) are producing the 14+ million genAI collection at Adobe Stock - the stuff that Adobe was contrasting itself with and was painted as questionable for commercial use - the fundamental illogic seems glaring to me. Investors appear not to be paying attention to small details like that.

So my based-on-nothing-but-my-own-flawed-analysis guess is that you shouldn't book a vacation paid for by your Firefly compensation any time soon :)

And yet people are still using this "beta" feature for commercial purposes. But I guess nobody else but me cares.

41
Adobe Stock / Re: Adobe Stock generative AI reminders
« on: August 26, 2023, 10:06 »
Contrary to the advice here, I'm doing photorealistic stuff. I'm doing it exactly because it's hard, that means fewer producers can't make it, and it's not as simple as putting a few words in MJ and calling it a day.

Just a few days ago I had a genAI sale of a person for over $30.

I'm not afraid of the "competition" using midjourney - skin looks fake, people are in the uncanny valley, and we're going to laugh about pictures like that in a few months just like today we're laughing when we see "person isolated on white" shots.

Of course, producing high-end genAI takes time, but imho as long as Adobe cleans up their library, it's worth it.

42
Adobe Stock / Re: Account blocked - I need help please
« on: August 26, 2023, 07:33 »
No, as Adobe's rules does not forbid having multiple accounts anywhere.

Mat, can we get an official word about this from Adobe?

43
Adobe Stock / Re: Adobe Stock generative AI reminders
« on: August 25, 2023, 17:03 »
It seems Adobe has a lot more cleanup to do. This thread shows it so well, and it's just what a couple of nice people from this board have found. I can only imagine how the rest of the assets look like :/

44
Adobe Stock / Re: Account blocked - I need help please
« on: August 25, 2023, 17:00 »
If I create and upload AI images, I would create a separate account with separate paypal account so that my entire portfolio with many years of hard work won't be deleted in the worst case scenario.  This is scary uploading AI images.  You may not be aware of the violation.
I'm not really sure, but I think I read that it is against Adobe's policy to run a 2nd account on AdobeStock as the same person.
But maybe I'm wrong here...

What remains to be seen is whether Adobe is in any way "willing to negotiate" on my account.

I know of at least one person who has 5 adobe stock accounts. How do I know? They were dumb enough to make a video about it themselves: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCqdns9CN80

(author of the video: if you ever see this, don't bother taking it down, I already downloaded the video as proof)

Is there an email address we can write to to report such behavior?

45
Adobe Stock / Re: Adobe Stock generative AI reminders
« on: August 23, 2023, 10:21 »
Maybe there should be a popup when a contributor logs in where they have to acknowledge these rules/guidelines and then if they still violate guidelines, just ban them after a few transgressions.

I just noticed this new popup today, thanks Mat and Adobe for listening and incorporating this

I still hope the reviewers got the memo as well, since I believe that a bunch of poeople who submit AI-generated stuff don't actually care about this popup - they just want easy money, and if you block them, they'll make another account. The reviewers should be the barrier. And upload limits, maybe even stricter.

46
I don't know who or where reviewing is happening, but the results would be funny if it wasn't undermining stock images as a useful resource

Well I can tell you for sure that the reviewers are not US-based

How do I know? I'm checking the # of images in the database on an increased frequency, and there's a drop in the "images reviewed per hour" metric during the weekend (for obvious reasons), which disappeared overnight. When it was between midnight and 8am in the US, the images reviewed per hour picked up to normal weekday speed. So it's either Europe or the countries I mentioned. Due to the costs associated with this and the ease of offshoring, I bet on the latter.

47
Adobe Stock / Re: Adobe Stock generative AI reminders
« on: August 20, 2023, 11:45 »
Someone mentioned Apple logos on approved genAI images??

From recently approved, page 4:



And what's with the black border on the image?

There's another in their portfolio: https://stock.adobe.com/images/man-in-suit-black/611734148?prev_url=detail

How does this pass inspection?

48
Adobe Stock / Re: Adobe Stock generative AI reminders
« on: August 20, 2023, 10:26 »
Hi everyone,

We want to remind you that any generative AI assets submitted to Adobe Stock must adhere to the Generative AI Guidelines. Violations to these guidelines lead to content rejections or account termination.

I hope a similar reminder went out to reviewers. Too many assets that fail Adobe's own guidelines somehow pass inspection, and this is not solely the contributors fault. Maybe there should be a popup when a contributor logs in where they have to acknowledge these rules/guidelines and then if they still violate guidelines, just ban them after a few transgressions.

Here's a few examples for the search "wes anderson" in genAI:

https://stock.adobe.com/images/surreal-girl-sits-on-sofa-among-bright-pumpkins-halloween-of-bright-colors-in-the-style-of-wes-anderson-films-festive-background-in-cinematic-style-generative-ai-content/605807641?prev_url=detail

https://stock.adobe.com/images/blonde-elegance-amidst-floral-splendor-wes-anderson-inspired-photography-with-a-touch-of-fanciful-dreaminess-generative-ai/603435603?prev_url=detail

https://stock.adobe.com/images/beautiful-vintage-interior-in-pastel-colors-having-a-strong-wes-anderson-aesthetic-high-end-materials-beautiful-textures-and-lighting-generative-ai/575738076?prev_url=detail

Ansel Adams:

https://stock.adobe.com/images/nature-s-symphony-ansel-adams-style-landscape-photography-ai-generated/616912725?prev_url=detail

https://stock.adobe.com/images/monochrome-mountain-scenery-reminiscent-of-ansel-adams-generative-ai/597227285?prev_url=detail

etc.

There's also a huge issue of a bunch of genAI stuff with weird faces, deformed hands and objects appearing out of thin air. Many assets are also just upscaled from Midjourney's 1024*1024, making them plastic looking and deficient in detail, especially for people. IMO these should not pass inspection as well, if they are submitted as photos. There are other ways of upscaling which generate detail (not Topaz or stuff like that) which are time and processing-power intensive, but spammers just download the 1mp image from Midjourney, upsize it on bigjpg and call it a day. Until Adobe puts a stop on this kind of spam, the producers actually making high quality imagery willl get buried because for every 1 genAI asset they make, spammers can just overwhelm the database with hundreds of their own, which look superficially similar as a thumbnail, but are nowhere near the same level of quality in full size 1:1.

49
Looking at today's new images in Adobe Stock's genAI collection is just depressing - it's littered with "oops" images - extra hand, objects malformed or missing bits or floating. Then there are multi-level wind turbines (which I predict will never be a thing, at least as pictured)

I'll call this the "We don't give a $h1t" collection

Adobe obviously outsourced the bulk of their reviewing to India, Pakistan, Vietnam and the surrounding countries.

50
Post on reddit, spread the word. Samsung is a scummy company with misleading marketing.

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