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Messages - Risamay

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126

Odd how pretty much everyone else seems to feel it's a pretty standard NDA.

At worst it is effective, at best it is meaningless. It's not a problem for you/us if it is worthless.

 :)

I predict this whole thing is going to be extremely anti-climactic.

I second your prediction.

127

Sean, I am really glad you were chosen.  You were my first thought when this panel was suggested.

Please don't let us down by turning into just another mouthpiece for Getty, trying to pacify us all into submission...

+1  :)

128
I hope this is more than a distraction.  IS already knows all the problems with the site, issues with security, anger by nonexclusives, etc... they are written in the forums and sitemails.  I hope we learn something from this call and IS will keep the contributors in mind before making changes in the future. Maybe they have realized they need to change and that's why all this is going on now?

I think this is no more or less than trying to distract us from calling for an audit or organizing a class action lawsuit. 

that's what I am thinking.

Yup, yup. They think we're f'idiots.

129
iStockPhoto.com / Re: Questions for the nominated five
« on: March 15, 2011, 14:07 »

Not sure if you saw this attorney's (and diamond exclusive) post on his view here. I think that he's in the US and I don't know if Canadian law differs materially in this area. I also don't know if we were to sue whether it would have to be in Canada or could be in the US given Getty's location.

I think it wouldn't be hard to prove negligence given the length of time the same problem has been around and the fact that they didn't take adequate steps to address it.


Quote
If you can prove failure to act reasonably by allowing our images to be downloaded without using commercially reasonable anti-fraud measures (and we haven't waived our rights in the Agreement somewhere) and you can establish the value of the image (which should be pretty easy based on the market value established here at iStock), I think there would be a case.

I'm sure some commercial litigator could quickly figure out whether there is a claim here.  It has to be significant $, based on what I figure my damages are and extrapolating from that, so, if there is a case, some money hungry attorney will be happy to help.


That's awesome news. Hadn't seen that post. Thanks for highlighting, jsnover!

130
iStockPhoto.com / Re: Black Thursday
« on: March 15, 2011, 14:03 »
Good idea, though - not sure how many people will catch on if it's only announced here.

131
iStockPhoto.com / Re: Questions for the nominated five
« on: March 14, 2011, 18:25 »
Really insightful list of questions JoAnn.  Wish you'd reconsider the panel.   

Those are good questions.

At the very least, I suppose, anything they answer backs them into a corner for future legal action. Oh, wait. Does the NDA protect that info from seeing the light of day, in court? Wish I were a lawyah and knew the answers to these kinds of legal questions!

132

C'mon folks. We're smarter than ... "Oh look - a squirrel!"
Where? Where? I can't see it!

It's over there, next to the log with a wig on!

ROFL  :D

133
iStockPhoto.com / Re: Questions for the nominated five
« on: March 14, 2011, 15:41 »
I don't have any questions, because it's a waste of time. Questions aren't going to be entertained or answered in any kind of manner that I trust coming from IS. I would like to see independent attorneys and accountants, hired by contributors, to take a meeting. Those are the answers I want to hear.

+1

135
I think of it more as a user focus group.  But whatever, I guess.  I have no problems sitting down in a chat or whatever and pointing out where I am having usability problems.

But you can post them on the forums? And have been for months, no? What makes these panels any different? Except, oh, you might have to sign an NDA and get some super special 'iStock secrets'. ;)

Exactly.

The IS forums are just one big open panel, discussion, bug-list, etc. Call it what you will. If they can't fix things based on what people report on the IS forums, then they can't fix things.

Adding a new layer of private panel isn't going solve anything. And that's CLEARLY not the point of it - IS has proposed this to quell the rash of rage. And apparently it's working, on some of the outraged. Which I find quite outrageous, in and of itself!

C'mon folks. We're smarter than ... "Oh look - a squirrel!"

136
Panel, schmanel.

I want an independent audit. Then, per the findings of said audit, I want to take IS to court. Class-action style, if the findings of the audit support such course of action.

The panel and anything short of an independent audit is nice in theory, perhaps, but leads me to believe even more firmly that IS is hiding something and scared of the lot of us seeking to tear back the curtain and see just exactly what they've been doing [wrong].

If I knew how to go about beginning such a course, I'd be all over it. My hope is that folks like Sean and Nico and others with the most money to lose will band together and make this happen. We are all (or would be) behind you to support such an effort and help out in any way that we can.

137
I have spoken... ;)

But will you be able to after you sign the NDA?

138
What other conclusion could the five possibly return with, other than "Things will get better"? Could they possibly get worse? iStock wouldn't initiate this conversation unless they had some type of action plan to show off to them - whether its feasible, whether it even goes forward, can't possibly be known by the 5 selected. All they can possibly do is say, "What they have planned will help. Things will get better."

And that puts us no further forward than hearing Andrew say, "We're on it. Believe me, please, we don't like this any more than you do." Personally I trust Andrew a lot -- it's just that the crap they give him to feed  to us stinks. But it's all they give him. The Selected 5 will be in the same boat.

Exactamundo.

139
I feel the conference call will be letting those 5 contributers know what they wished they could tell everyone.

It's not about wishing, it's about wanting and will.

If they can tell 5 of us anything so supposedly secret, then it's not a secret (after all) and they could tell all of us.

Clearly, for some reason, they just don't want to.

140
I agree with Karen
Even that I'm not happy with any of how things are being handled, lets not start speculating about the NDA as an "all bad" stuff.
An NDA can be as broad and extended as we can imagine; but it could also be very limited and specific about certain points.
As many have pointed in here, people like Sean will not fall easily for it, if it is fuzzy or shady.
I've signed several NDAs for sensitive projects that I've developed; and believe me, not all NDAs are as bad as they seem.
...I'm trying to be as objective and positive as I can be with all this.

We don't know what the NDA will/might entail. And therein lies part and parcel of the problem. Particularly as there is already a dire [and well-founded] dearth of trust in IS on the part of its contributor base - from Black Diamonds on down.

Why not share the information with everyone in the community of contributors? Why just a select 5 (and why only Exclusives?), who will then be bound to some degree of silence and secrecy by an NDA? Whatever these 5 are able to share with the rest of us, I'll just be wondering what they've been prevented from saying, according to the terms/teeth of the NDA. The NDA does nothing but further deteriorate trust in IS. What are they trying to hide? Tell all of us everything. Not a handful of 5 people who are then muzzled by a legal agreement. It doesn't matter that we can't know to what degree the NDA is binding. The point is that IS is asking these people to sign an NDA at all, if they are to participate in this conversation.

It's not rocket science why we should all be leery of this strange arrangement, conversation, and the NDA. Seems a desperate move and misguided attempt at damage control on the part of a guilty party (IS).

Which makes me think all the more that it's high time for: a) a formal, third-party audit of IS and, b) per the findings of said audit, pursuing/filing a class-action lawsuit.

141
No disrespect meant but the people that keep pushing to nominate stacey_newman or even pink_cotton_candy need to get their heads checked... this will turn this pointless conference call into something even more counter productive.

+1 to the power of infinity!

142
IMO and with respect, I think you're focusing on the NDA instead of the opportunity to truly advocate regarding an important issue.

IMO and with respect, I don't think you understand what a non-disclosure agreement is. If you did, you wouldn't be in any way thrilled about the terms of this supposed "opportunity to truly advocate regarding an important issue." And if you do, well. I guess it's just another instance of your BI-WINNING  way of looking at things  :D

143
I'd be happy to participate in a conference call - no NDA - to discuss major contributor problems. Discuss is an operative word - i.e. not just listen. Problems plural is key as well - the clawback of funds and loss of control of our images is very important, but is only one of the major failings on the site at the moment. If they dont' fix search soon, the future doesn't look bright at all.

I think iStock is trying to deflect trouble rather than solve problems. I think they want to try and ratchet down the contributor discontent and aren't thinking about solving the problems as the way to do that.

I hope they're willing to revisit the sort of conference call they're willing to have. Going from "trust us" to "trust them" isn't much of a step forward IMO.

Very well said, agree with you 100%

+1


Three words: class action lawsuit.  I am in if anyone can get it rolling.

Those are the only three words that matter at this point.  Lots of us will be on that bandwagon, I think.

+1

144
I was thinking they were liable for allowing the fraud to go on for so long due to their negligence. Clearly they are negligent. Just look at how quickly the other two agencies acted and tamped down on the fraud. Even iStock contributors were suspicious of the downloads...yet iStock continued to allow it to happen. Blows the mind...

Yes, exactly.  They were very clearly negligent.  Publicly announcing that nobody would be watching the store for several weeks is grossly negligent, and that is just the tip of the iceberg.

+1

I think money spent on a third-party professional LEGAL opinion would be money well spent.

At this point, I know that folks are just talking and blowing off steam, but I hope this notion picks up with some weight as I'm sure a number of us would be willing to chip in and have a lawyer review all of this. That's peace of mind I'd hazard the lot of us would be willing to pay for, as trust in IS and its word is all but gone at this juncture. I trust nothing they tell me. Particularly nothing that comes directly from Kelly's mouth. And even Andrew now. I know they just use that poor sweet guy as their mouthpiece to soften blows. Though it's not really working that way, any longer. And hasn't for some time.

145
The question isn't whether Istock can be held liable for misuse of the images when legally downloaded.

The question is did Istock properly perfom the duties due the contributor as outlined in the contract?  Were they in any way negligent?  If so, then what damages did their negligence cause.


Hefty damages, no doubt. I mean, if folks like jhorrocks have the legal basis to sue for lost future earnings (which sounds completely reasonable to me), IS/Getty and the holding company (whoever ends up being ID'd as liable) is REALLY screwed:

Quote
Posted by jhorrocks:

I just finished reviewing all of my stolen files, and I'm almost too upset to sit here and type.  I feel like I've been raped.  290 files ripped off and most likely being distributed for free on some torrent site.  Those 290 represent the top-selling 4.6% of my portfolio.  Forget about the money being handed back in the short term.. I'm disgusted at the long-term revenue loss.  This is much bigger.  And that's just my portfolio.  I'm no mathemetician, but what's that calculation again about x% of your portfolio accounting for y% of revenue?  Something like 10% of the content accounting for 50% of income?  What ever the actual number is, it makes me sick.  And that's not even considering all the expense in creating all the stolen images.  F**K.


http://www.istockphoto.com/forum_messages.php?threadid=312142&page=49

146
Quote
Posted by PeskyMonkey:

No contract or agreement is ever water-tight in the eyes of lawyers Stacey.

Quote
Posted by stacey_newman:

sorry, but that's just silly.


http://www.istockphoto.com/forum_messages.php?threadid=312142&page=51

Actually, it's anything but. The best contracts or agreements often fall short of air-tight, and there are many such legal documents with holes that end up sinking said agreements in court. It often ends up being about whether or not someone is willing to take someone else to task (to court). Good lawyers are good at finding ways around and out of such binding situations. I know, because I know a few (but not in our area, I'm afraid).

Who knows if this contract is rock solid or not? And given the way things are going and the astronomical sums that are being clawed back (among all the other questions and concerns raised), is it not worth challenging in court or having - at the very least - OUR attorneys review it? Rather than just taking your word that it's silly to question or Getty's word or anyone's from HQ?

147
iStockPhoto.com / Re: Micromanaging the istock Forums
« on: March 11, 2011, 13:33 »
I don't know that you can necessarily equate these once-badged folks with dropping their badge due to the recent mess.  Inspectors have a huge workload and I know of at least one that quit inspecting because it was simply overwhelming work with the way her life was going and she needed to make that change.  Granted, the recent issues may be causing more to drop the badge than usual, but there does seem to be other factors that contribute to quitting that "esteemed" task of inspecting.

Oh, absolutely. I was just asking, didn't those folks used to have a badge of some kind? Asking, because I really couldn't recall. And why they left I've no idea, if they did have badges.

148
iStockPhoto.com / Re: Micromanaging the istock Forums
« on: March 11, 2011, 10:56 »
So the IS forums have become dull and lousy because you're all here! :D


exactly!  it's a lot more fun over here!  :)


Significantly more  :D

And speaking of more, didn't these folks also used to have a badge of some kind?

http://www.istockphoto.com/attator

http://www.istockphoto.com/alvarez

http://www.istockphoto.com/absolutely_frenchy

149
One kkthompson has deemed fit to make a short statement;

"I realize this is frustrating, but it is for us as well. Not being able to speak about it or explain our position makes everyone a little crazy.

BUT, when we are able to make a statement--believe me--you will understand why we're doing what we're doing.

Please be patient. That discussion could still be months away.

Kelly"


Still no apology of course __ or letter of resignation either.

He has *got* to go. Got to got to got to. If for no other reason than he exhibits no common sense or manners (where's our sincere and profuse apology, at the very least?) when it comes to running this company and communicating with the artists it represents.

His empty, blundering statements make my blood boil!

150
iStockPhoto.com / Re: Micromanaging the istock Forums
« on: March 10, 2011, 22:27 »
really.  wow.  I know he was there in the beginnings (or at least from several years back) and he was one of the main IT guys.  I didn't realize he had gone.  he is both of these logins http://www.istockphoto.com/brentman (the contributor account) and http://www.istockphoto.com/brent the sysadmin account. 


I didn't know that one either.


I could be wrong. That's just the word I heard, on the street. Some time back.

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