Sorry for both Katje and Josh.  Josh,  I am not a lawyer or expert with US laws, but in general I hear lawyers will tell clients to not comment publicly in a ongoing court case.  I hope you are not causing trouble for yourself posting so many details.  Who knows if they can twist your words against you? 

I will donate to you and hope many others do the same.

Thanks for wanting to donate!

As far as my comments, I am only really saying stuff that was already talked about with the plaintiffs lawyer, stuff that was in the complaint already, or stuff I mention in my crowd funding statement, and lastly some of my own purely personal feelings and theoretical speculations which could very well change as the case goes forward and are not meant to be taken as fact.

I am hoping as the case progresses all the facts will come out and all speculation will be cleared away. 

Quote from: bpepz on January 09, 2015, 10:56

Quote from: Shelma1 on January 09, 2015, 10:30

Is this her lawyer?

http://www.wkyc.com/story/news/investigations/2013/12/03/prosecutor-taxes-yacht-club-boat-debt-liens/3861989/

Lol yes that is her lawyer.


Seems he was a prosecutor and then started doing lawyer stuff like personal injury lawsuits.

Seems like an upstanding guy. HA HA HA.

I would like to give him the benefit of the doubt. He may not be that bad of a guy, I am getting more and more convinced she probably lied or exaggerated many of the details, like her not getting paid and such as a good example. I wonder once he finds out if he will end up suing her because of all the time she made him waste.

However, that may not even be the case. There could easily be some kind of information I am unaware of that could explain why she is claiming that and some of the other stuff. I can only go off of my personal recollection, the witness, my documentation, and what was said in the the complaint. maybe there was an error in communicating exactly what happened or some sort of over simplification when the complaint was made, who knows. Either way, I am eager to find out what they think happened and why.

I am keeping my mind open

BTW - who signed her model release as a witness?

Doug heater, who was someone was assisting me during the shoot to help with holding lights and stuff. It is right in the model release so anyone can look this up.

Quote from: bpepz on January 09, 2015, 08:11

Quote from: ShadySue on January 09, 2015, 07:43

Quote from: melastmohican on January 08, 2015, 23:26

It looks like Shutterstock is one of defendants. They can afford big lawyers. Also Playboy, Amazon and Barnes and Noble...

So she has established the the photos definitely orginated from Shutterstock? Presumably by contacting the misusers?
I was wondering how she knew thay didn't just lift the pics from her Fb profile.

So if the end users have confirmed they used photos from Shutterstock, presumably they used them outwith SS's TOS, if they were not tagged for sensitive use (and maybe even then?)?
That being the case, how can SS or the OP be responsible?

That's like saying if someone bought a pencil and stabbed it into someone's jugular, the shop and the pencil manufacturer would be responsible.

So far, as far as I know she has no proof anything even came from shutterstock. Everything they have is in the complaint, and the only evidence they presented was the model release she signed I think.

As far as sensitive use, the sensitive use TOS specifically mentions you cannot use the images for pornographic or defamatory purposes. The old TOS even mentions escort sites and such, but now it is even broader, so that was not a problem.

That's even more insane.
That would be like, in my pencil example, they went after any random shop which sold pencils.
I don't understand US Law, I can't see why that is getting any credence whatsoever.
(But sometimes cases come up here which are bizarre and the ruling goes a surprising way).
Best wishes.

I think the problem is, as far as the judge knows, the only facts out there are what is in the plaintiffs complaint. Otherwise I am not sure how they are supposed to make a ruling unless they see ample information from both sides. however, getting to the point of presenting my side of the story could potentially be a long and extremely expensive process.

I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions on places I can contact who can hopefully get my story more attention? Maybe I should go post on the forum on shutterstock?

Quote from: bpepz on January 08, 2015, 14:42

Quote from: Lizard on January 08, 2015, 14:31

The language of the release seems to be sufficient, that is not in question. The plaintiff is trying to get around it by saying I fraudulently induced her to sign it, which I did not

Ok, thats her right.

On which base will she try to prove that, because she has to clearly prove that and  that's the main question of the case.

Your whiteness importance will go into second plan because she will probably claim that you 2 work together and represent same side.

Secondly, whats her agent point of view, if photographer gets him on his side or even on neutral that only should win the case.

If I was the photographer I would seriously research and consider pulling accusation of breaking a legal contract and request coverage of all expenses that came as a result of that.


Then there is a possibility of requesting refund of all  losses because photographer reputation has been ruined with that case and newspapers articles representing one side only.

Maybe she will quit and settle on nothing when she know shell have to pay big time if she looses this one and there are strong chances she will.

I think she ditched her agent months before the lawsuit and nothing about her agent was ever brought up in court. She is claiming I never paid her as well, I have paypal receipts and facebook messages proving this. She probably does not want to bring up her old agent because she would end up having to admit I actually did pay her, and she was informed the images would be used for stock photography, which she is claiming she was never told.

If its not to late I would call the man asap

Its actually a woman but that is probably a good idea.

Quote from: bpepz on January 08, 2015, 11:05

Quote from: Lizard on January 08, 2015, 10:56

Quote from: Semmick Photo on January 08, 2015, 02:36

Is there no way to get a pro bono lawyer?

+1

Anyone should win that case defending alone just with facts from the text. If he looses best lawyer in the world wont help him because the case is fixed which I doubt in this case.

The guy should only think how he should pump his defending expenses and get the refund after the case from the person who sued him

All the lawyers I talked to said a refund even if I win the case is extremely unlikely, it just is not something that happens that much in civil cases, even in ridiculous ones like mine. The legal definition of frivolous and the common sense one are two different things, and judges are extremely reluctant to rule any case frivolous in even some pretty extreme cases. I also asked about if I did lose, could I file bankruptcy since I have n chance of ever paying $500,000, I guess even in that situation, because case is alleging a fraud element, I can't even file for bankruptcy, this is scary as hell.

 I am confident I will be able to win the case, but only if I get enough money to get through it. Going through the process of discovery and depositions will cost a gigantic amount of money because of the huge amount of hours it takes. When you are paying many hundreds of dollars an hour, this adds up really fast even for something that is simple, it is pretty frightening.

I openly dislike lawyers, I had 5 court cases in my life, 2 with lawyers witch I lost and 3 by representing my legal person of which I won 2 and settled in last on but that was my plan.


Anyways

If they had not ignored my side of the story, here is what they would have reported. She was an experienced lingerie and implied nude model, appearing on a magazine cover in such apparel.  I told her agent before the shoot it would be used for stock photography.  During the shoot I also told the model that the images would be for sale for stock photography and explained how stock photography works.  I explained to her that these agencies prohibit pornographic use in their terms of service..  Another person who often helped me from time to time was present during the shoot and witnessed everything.


If he had all that in written on that piece of paper that she signed he would be unbreakable in the case, but I think even like this way he cannot loose, but it highly depends on that model release and its content.

Obviously that contract or model release that people call it should be considered more seriously and photographers should not use first template of same that find on google but some legally unbreakable one which every average notary should be able to write if not the photographer alone with minimal research and fully protect them self.

The language of the release seems to be sufficient, that is not in question. The plaintiff is trying to get around it by saying I fraudulently induced her to sign it, which I did not.

sorry double posted

Quote from: Semmick Photo on January 08, 2015, 02:36

Is there no way to get a pro bono lawyer?

+1

Anyone should win that case defending alone just with facts from the text. If he looses best lawyer in the world wont help him because the case is fixed which I doubt in this case.

The guy should only think how he should pump his defending expenses and get the refund after the case from the person who sued him

All the lawyers I talked to said a refund even if I win the case is extremely unlikely, it just is not something that happens that much in civil cases, even in ridiculous ones like mine. The legal definition of frivolous and the common sense one are two different things, and judges are extremely reluctant to rule any case frivolous in even some pretty extreme cases. I also asked about if I did lose, could I file bankruptcy since I have n chance of ever paying $500,000, I guess even in that situation, because case is alleging a fraud element, I can't even file for bankruptcy, this is scary as hell.

 I am confident I will be able to win the case, but only if I get enough money to get through it. Going through the process of discovery and depositions will cost a gigantic amount of money because of the huge amount of hours it takes. When you are paying many hundreds of dollars an hour, this adds up really fast even for something that is simple, it is pretty frightening.

Donated.
ALL photographers with people in their portfolio should contribute to this cause to whatever extent they can. This is really important.

My family and I say thanks!

As far as the lawsuit, the lawyers I have talked to said,  there really has not been any cases like this that they know of that are in public record, so it is very important this is won in the photographer's favor.

Many people in the legal system are not really up to date on how images are sold online these days. When I was searching for a copyright and IP lawyer , some of them charge $800 an hour who have never heard of Paypal or Getty images. Luckily my Lawyers are very competent.

Donated.  Good luck Josh!

Thank you!

Hey Josh, I have donated $10 USD. I am a little strapped for cash until payday but I figured I wanted to help anyway. Good luck mate, I hope you get a chance to file a counter claim for damages once you get aqcuited by the judge.

Thank you for your donation!!!

As far as counter claims for damages, it apparently is not so simple. I guess anything alleged in the legal complaint by a plaintiff, even if it is untrue has some kind of legal privilege to protect them for defamation and stuff like that. Do a Google search for "legal complaint privilege" and a bunch of stuff comes up. Also, it is extremely unlikely I will ever get the costs reimbursed even if I win. The reason for this is the case would have to be deemed frivolous, however, the common sense definition and the legal definition of frivolous are two completely different things. Judges are extremely unlikely to rule a case frivolous even in pretty extreme scenarios, it is actually very rare for it to happen in a civil case, so I was pretty depressed when I learned this.