actually there is a simpler way.

my colleague, a canadian music composer, stated to me that during the time when mp3 was fledgling representing indie musicians,  canadian musicians needed only to submit their SIN (if you're canadian ), and the equivalence in other treaty countries , and no tax withheld would apply. this has to be linked to a canadian address, not a p.o. box, or whatnot.

there was no need for anything other than your Social Insurance Number, and a canadian home address.

i mention canadian because my colleague is canadian.

I am canadian and I went through this process before with SS a few months ago and the IRS would not take my SIN. Denis

06/01/2010 21:29
 ModeratorWE WANT OUR W7 LETTERHi All,

good news, as it stands right now, no ITIN will be needed for treaty to apply, therefor the W8ben form will be sufficient for the treaty to apply, so the vast majority should have a 0% or a very low withholding rate.   Just submit your W8 forms correctly and wait for validation. Once your W8 form has been validated, you'll be done.  

A refund for the taken taxes so far will apply to each account within the next few days.

we will soon make an official announcement. Check blog and forums later on.

I hope you are all happy campers now  

Daniela

Director, Fotolia United Kingdom


http://www.fotolia.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=24454




Denis

I believe that if Fotolia are forced to send us signed letters by mail that it will force them to reconsider the cost of mailing letters to everybody versus doing it without ITIN number. Can you imagine how time consuming it would be if all of a sudden they had to send us signed letters non-stop. Denis

^^ Looks like they are sending the letter as PDF with 'hand written' signature. If that satisfies IRS (and I guess it will), then that is easy to automate and hence cut the costs to almost 0 (long term).

I know from personal experience that a printed W7 letter from another well known stock agency got my ITIN application rejected a few months ago. However, I must say that it was not a PDF file therefore it may or may not work, I don't know?  The last time it cost me over $100.00 to have documents certified and shipped only to have the application rejected 6 weeks later because the W7 letter was not original. In addition, the IRS don't return your documents if they are rejected (unless it is an original passport) therefore you have to start all over again if rejected!!!  At that time, with the other agency, while waiting for my ITIN application to be approved, they found a way to do without the ITIN number and be in full compliance with the IRS.  Although my ITIN application was eventually rejected, it was no longer required. At that time I did not care anymore about loosing over $100.00 as I though this ITIN saga was finally behind us. Well today I wish I had the application approved.

I am reluctant regarding spending money towards a non-original W7 letter.  I am not saying this is not gonna work but can you imagine if they had mass rejections how mad this would make Fotolia members. I am still willing to use the pdf file but before sending it I will wait the results of the first ones sent as I am sure we will hear about it. Denis

Thank you Laflor...very useful. You have a wonderful port.....I am jealous. No doubt in my mind...you will be very successful
Take care Denis

I got 3 EL's 

Denis

The following was posted at Fotolia without the links:


After the holidays, I will definitely contact the IRS and get more details about the ITIN issue. So far I have found the following strong evidences that an ITIN is not required.  The following is a small part of a published letter for which the link will be posted at MG. This letter is from a US organisation called �the Chair of SIFMA�s Committee on Tax Compliance and Administration� and requested by an IRS officer to make recommendations and comments about drafting a new updated version of Form W-8BEN instructions. Only the most important lines were kept:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Glenn Kirkland, IRS Reports Clearance Officer
Internal Revenue Service, Room 6512
1111 Constitution Avenue NW
Washington, DC 20224
Re: Request for Comments on Draft Form W-8BEN and
Instructions for Form W-8BEN

Dear Mr. Kirkland:

The Securities Industry and Financial Markets Association (�SIFMA�)
appreciates the opportunity to comment on recently released drafts of
Form W-8BEN and Instructions for Form W-8BEN. We respectfully request IRS
consideration of the following suggested changes to the form and instructions.

Line 6
o The instructions for this section begin by saying that an individual is
generally required to enter his/her social security number (SSN) on
Line 6 of Form W-8BEN. To the contrary, most non-resident aliens
do not have an SSN and are not required to provide any type of
U.S. taxpayer identification number (�TIN�) on a Form W-8BEN.
The instructions should instead start with the general rule that a TIN
is not required to obtain a reduced rate or exemption from US
withholding. Then the instructions should explain when a TIN is
required and how to obtain one. Otherwise, foreign investors would
likely get the impression that a TIN is required.
the Chair of SIFMA�s Committee on Tax
Compliance and Administration

http://www.sifma.org/regulatory/comment_letters/47326787.pdf

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

As well, the following paragraph was found within the W-8BEN instructions:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Expiration of Form W-8BEN.   Generally, a Form W-8BEN provided without a U.S. taxpayer identification number (TIN) will remain in effect for a period starting on the date the form is signed and ending on the last day of the third succeeding calendar year, unless a change in circumstances makes any information on the form incorrect. For example, a Form W-8BEN signed on September 30, 2005, remains valid through December 31, 2008. A Form W-8BEN furnished with a U.S. TIN will remain in effect until a change in circumstances makes any information on the form incorrect, provided that the withholding agent reports on Form 1042-S at least one payment annually to the beneficial owner who provided the Form W-8BEN. See the instructions for line 6 beginning on page 4 for circumstances under which you must provide a U.S. TIN.

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/iw8ben.pdf

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Without a doubt after reading the above mention, the only difference between having a TIN and not having one is the expiry date, and not withholding issues. Therefore, could Fotolia point us to the proper IRS directive indicating that they have the right to withhold 30%  after our W-8BEN have been validated without TIN? This only reasonable. Thank you.



>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


It appears from the evidences above that it is the IRS instructions that are badly written and put everybody in a confusing state. I hope eventually that Fotolia will speak to the right tax expert.

Denis

I just got a response from Fotolia support indicating that the above mention evidences against the ITIN requirements were sent to their tax advisors for review. Denis

Oh Cybernesco!

I've just realised you must be Denis from the Legal Forum who's been doing all their homework and come up with some good ammo!!

Have you heard back from Fotolia after you more than likely blasted them?!

(if you are not the same Denis, then oops!)

No I don't have anything positive so far.

This was my last post to them:

"Inevitably Fotolia has only two choices:

Either send us the required W7 letter so that we can get the TIN or find a way to do it without TIN like the other sites. So far, after three weeks none of those two options have been realised.  So what is going on?  Denis�

The following was posted at Fotolia without the links:


After the holidays, I will definitely contact the IRS and get more details about the ITIN issue. So far I have found the following strong evidences that an ITIN is not required.  The following is a small part of a published letter for which the link will be posted at MG. This letter is from a US organisation called �the Chair of SIFMA�s Committee on Tax Compliance and Administration� and requested by an IRS officer to make recommendations and comments about drafting a new updated version of Form W-8BEN instructions. Only the most important lines were kept:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Glenn Kirkland, IRS Reports Clearance Officer
Internal Revenue Service, Room 6512
1111 Constitution Avenue NW
Washington, DC 20224
Re: Request for Comments on Draft Form W-8BEN and
Instructions for Form W-8BEN

Dear Mr. Kirkland:

The Securities Industry and Financial Markets Association (�SIFMA�)
appreciates the opportunity to comment on recently released drafts of
Form W-8BEN and Instructions for Form W-8BEN. We respectfully request IRS
consideration of the following suggested changes to the form and instructions.

Line 6
o The instructions for this section begin by saying that an individual is
generally required to enter his/her social security number (SSN) on
Line 6 of Form W-8BEN. To the contrary, most non-resident aliens
do not have an SSN and are not required to provide any type of
U.S. taxpayer identification number (�TIN�) on a Form W-8BEN.
The instructions should instead start with the general rule that a TIN
is not required to obtain a reduced rate or exemption from US
withholding. Then the instructions should explain when a TIN is
required and how to obtain one. Otherwise, foreign investors would
likely get the impression that a TIN is required.
the Chair of SIFMA�s Committee on Tax
Compliance and Administration

http://www.sifma.org/regulatory/comment_letters/47326787.pdf

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

As well, the following paragraph was found within the W-8BEN instructions:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Expiration of Form W-8BEN.   Generally, a Form W-8BEN provided without a U.S. taxpayer identification number (TIN) will remain in effect for a period starting on the date the form is signed and ending on the last day of the third succeeding calendar year, unless a change in circumstances makes any information on the form incorrect. For example, a Form W-8BEN signed on September 30, 2005, remains valid through December 31, 2008. A Form W-8BEN furnished with a U.S. TIN will remain in effect until a change in circumstances makes any information on the form incorrect, provided that the withholding agent reports on Form 1042-S at least one payment annually to the beneficial owner who provided the Form W-8BEN. See the instructions for line 6 beginning on page 4 for circumstances under which you must provide a U.S. TIN.

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/iw8ben.pdf

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Without a doubt after reading the above mention, the only difference between having a TIN and not having one is the expiry date, and not withholding issues. Therefore, could Fotolia point us to the proper IRS directive indicating that they have the right to withhold 30%  after our W-8BEN have been validated without TIN? This only reasonable. Thank you.



>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


It appears from the evidences above that it is the IRS instructions that are badly written and put everybody in a confusing state. I hope eventually that Fotolia will speak to the right tax expert.

Denis

I have dual drives, so I have done a clean install of W7 Home Premium 64 bits on the second drive while keeping Vista Home Premium 64 bits on the first, which, thereafter, the computer�s bios menu automatically gave me the choice on which OS to boot.  I had a copy of Photoshop CS4 on both drives.  This way, I could figure under which OS, Photoshop CS4 was the most performing with the same computer. To me the performance of my Wacom tablet under CS4 was the most important point in deciding which OS I was going to keep.
  
After flawlessly going through the initial W7 installation, getting all updates and installing Norton Antivirus, I let W7 decide which driver to install for all my hardware. W7 had Microsoft driver versions for all my components, nvidia 9800, Wacom tablet, Canon printer, ect..   After this was all done, at first, everything appeared to work good�however after trying CS4, I was not so sure anymore.  

Under CS4, the Wacom tablet pen was very sluggish, very slow to respond and definitely much worst then CS4 under Vista. As well, panning and smooth zooming were no longer working as it did under Vista. Under CS4 preferences, the video card �open GL� option was greyed out and could not be activated as in Vista which is required for the panning and smooth zooming.  I figured that the provided Microsoft nvidia driver was probably the culprit. From the nvidia website I got their own driver specifically for W7 64 bits. Bingo, �open GL� got activated and thereafter, panning and smooth zooming was back.   But, the Wacom tablet pen was still very sluggish and slow to respond. Again, maybe the provided Microsoft Wacom driver was the culprit.  From Wacom website I got the driver. This time, not Bingo, still sluggish and slow to respond. To me, if this problem could not be resolved , I was ditching W7 and keeping Vista. After spending all afternoon trying to figure this out without success, I re-uploaded the Wacom driver from the Wacom  website and this time Bingo�.it works.  It went from worst then Vista to much better then Vista just because of a couple drivers.

To make a long story short.  When changing OS, always try to get drivers from the original companies where your hardware are from before using the Microsoft ones. Everything is now much faster then Vista, from booting to shutting it down  as well as  much better performance with CS4 and the Wacom tablet pen which is a big plus for me.  Denis

Too early to worry about. Just check your preferences for possible mistakes in payout section.

My preference is set on paypal as it always been since the beginning. Denis

I'm guessing either timing or a glitch in the system.  I requested payment the evening of the 31st and had my Paypal notification on the 2nd.

Yes that was typical timing for me as well. I am sure nothing is lost as the amount owed has not been subtracted from the total yet and still in pending mode so I guess this could be some kind of a glitch. Denis