MicrostockGroup
Microstock Photography Forum - General => Selling Stock Direct => Topic started by: Leo on December 27, 2016, 03:37
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Continued from here: http://www.microstockgroup.com/symbiostock-general/to-the-'legacy-users'/msg474259/?topicseen#new (http://www.microstockgroup.com/symbiostock-general/to-the-'legacy-users'/msg474259/?topicseen#new)
I've had a few people nudging me on my past endeavors to create an ideal stock-image sell-direct solution.
[edit: thread has been aggressively trolled, so I've distilled the Q/A into this main post here:]
See the screenshots below. These are images of a working system I use for myself. Its a client-side website generator for your stock images. It removes the complexity of web design by pre-generating and pre-processing on your computer, then uploading the resulting website to your server.
This allows an artist to simply input FTP credentials (like any stock website) and the software manages everything else.
I created this system because I wanted to set up my website to stand the test of time, and require 0 maintenace -- forever. By reducing dynamic files and not using CMSs like Wordpress, there is no need for upgrades and maintenance. Hacking threats are reduced as well. Server resources are used only to serve html and images.
The main beauty in this is absolute simplicity and the speed resulting.
What it is:
-A simple static website generator.
-A way to simplify and save time in self-hosting your image store.
-A way to use "cheap hosting" without sacrificing performance.
What it isn't:
-A solution to microstock political/economic issues often spoken about.
-A guaranteed way to sell independently (this differs from person to person).
-A network or co-op.
-Complicated.
How can a static (html-only) site perform ecommerce functions?
All functionality is Javascript run (browser) and not server side.
Why not just use some other self-hosting solution.
You certainly can. Other solutions can be useful for people with some experience in web design. The purpose of this is ultimate simplicity and stability, not to mention SPEED. Most dynamic sites can be rather high maintenance or resource hogs. This removes all those burdens.
Will it generate AWESOME looking websites?
It will generate minimalistic and clean websites, devoid of a style-statement, with all focus on your product and a rapid-checkout scheme. The pages (much like my website) will be mobile-device compliant and standards compliant, besides having the basic SEO considerations.
Is it better than the other stuff everyone has tried?
It is far different, with different priorities (simplicity, speed, user-friendliness). If you want a super-feature-oriented, super-customizable site, it might be better to learn a bit of web-culture/design and use one of the common options. This is for people who, like me, don't want to be bothered with my site except to just add products occasionally.
Please note that I am currently refining and rewriting the systems for largescale use, but it works thus far. My website is Django-run, but the client-side page-generator works fine.
More information provided on previous thread.
Image explorer (not unlike Adobe Bridge)
(http://i.imgur.com/tYaTRSw.jpg) (http://imgur.com/tYaTRSw)
Image search:
(http://i.imgur.com/TeqtLct.jpg)
Meta data:
(http://i.imgur.com/SZyiTrr.jpg)
Previews/sales info:
(http://i.imgur.com/dK2aTXQ.jpg)
Uploader:
(http://i.imgur.com/RCgj1f5.jpg)
Site monitor/viewer:
(http://i.imgur.com/YrGwfYx.jpg)
Speed, performance, and crystal-clean code is usually my objective. I'm not so concerned with boastful gloss in ecommerce sites -- I believe in functionality first and minimalism so as to keep focus on the product.
Currently I am pursuing other things, having left off from microstock a long time ago. But still, people may wish to find a "graveyard" or final resting place for their images that they can leave for 10 years without thinking about it. That is what I did, and I enjoy sales on my site too. Because my site runs so clean, it has absolutely no issues on minimal-charge hosting.
It is my honest opinion that for any continued survival in this business more changes will be needed in expectations as well as pursuits. Meanwhile I do enjoy building this stuff :)
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I didn't really understand most of the stuff above! Can you make it a bit clearer exactly what this is?
But still, people may wish to find a "graveyard" or final resting place for their images that they can leave for 10 years without thinking about it.
What, you mean like uploading them to DepositPhotos?
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I didn't really understand most of the stuff above! Can you make it a bit clearer exactly what this is?
But still, people may wish to find a "graveyard" or final resting place for their images that they can leave for 10 years without thinking about it.
What, you mean like uploading them to DepositPhotos?
Its an attempt for the ideal level of simplicity and performance for running your own store. Its also an attempt at perfection, or at least to come as close to it as possible.
Regarding the graveyard bit -- yes -- self-hosting such as this is really the art of having your own vending machine. I build stock image vending machines. The other guys do too, but I coined the term. 8) Put money in, image comes out.
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I think it will only be perfection when we have one site to upload to, instead of many people having their own site and wasting money paying for domains and hosting fees. I still think the majority of people will find it hard to break even running their own site and what's the point of that?
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I think it will only be perfection when we have one site to upload to, instead of many people having their own site and wasting money paying for domains and hosting fees. I still think the majority of people will find it hard to break even running their own site and what's the point of that?
It truly is a tough call. I really like having my own site to sell from, and given a choice I would never get rid of it. But others rightfully take your view as well. If there was a genuinely good and profitable agency that could be counted on indefinitely, it would certainly be worth shutting down my independent pursuits. But this world promises much and gives little, so I've developed my own strategies just to find a happy and productive medium.
I'll see if the idea takes, and if not I'll check in another year from now as things continue to evolve.
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For me the VAT stuff etc is very important, so I would rather sell through an official agency and give them a percentage. It makes my accountant happy and prevents some legal issues if I were selling directly.
So, I would love to have my own portfolio within a wider frame, but still an agency. I control what I upload and it is a self publishing site, I'll also accept all the copyright risk etc...I want to be ale to set my own prices.
But the payment stuff etc...I'll happily leave that to someone else.
I also need a well developped gallery solution for the clients and myself.
I am still looking for a good self publishing solution, haven t found one yet.
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Should exist all variants and possibiity to change at any time when owner of images thinks it is necessary. One site for all - ok, good, but after some time will start a usual life cycle of "agency" with all related problems, including search and exposure.
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Should exist all variants and possibiity to change at any time when owner of images thinks it is necessary. One site for all - ok, good, but after some time will start a usual life cycle of "agency" with all related problems, including search and exposure.
Just to be clear, this will not attempt to be an agency or connect users (no co-ops) but rather a perfected sell-direct solution that keeps things simple and productive for artists. There will likely be a community for support and fun available right through the software, but that will not be a primary focus.
For me the VAT stuff etc is very important, so I would rather sell through an official agency and give them a percentage. It makes my accountant happy and prevents some legal issues if I were selling directly.
So, I would love to have my own portfolio within a wider frame, but still an agency. I control what I upload and it is a self publishing site, I'll also accept all the copyright risk etc...I want to be ale to set my own prices.
But the payment stuff etc...I'll happily leave that to someone else.
I also need a well developped gallery solution for the clients and myself.
I am still looking for a good self publishing solution, haven t found one yet.
Lets let this conversation run for a while just to zero in on the real problems, needs, concerns, etc. This one I have heard alot. If there is a demand, this will be one targeted endeavor for the perfect solution. Meanwhile I've had several working prototypes many have seen or used. This is really a matter of distilling all experience and needs into one elegant solution.
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whatever you want to do will be very welcome.
the industry needs a good self publishing solution.
something specifically designed for stock artists.
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One is needed to work with video files as well, I am actively looking for the best solution. I think a great option is to be able to invite people to submit to your site so you could grow your business in the future if you wanted!
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One is needed to work with video files as well, I am actively looking for the best solution. I think a great option is to be able to invite people to submit to your site so you could grow your business in the future if you wanted!
i'd love a relatively small but smart video site for a loyal talented artists. If i could, i'd set that up in a heartbeat.
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whatever you want to do will be very welcome.
the industry needs a good self publishing solution.
something specifically designed for stock artists.
You are reading my mind. I want it Leo, looks good, and I don't care about uploading to DP. Just need a good self publishing site, raster and vector. Also yes to selling video would be a good match for most of us.
Make the basic good working site first, add the tricks and fancy parts later.
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The more turn key the better, you can have add on's for $$ and charge for setting up the hosting. I would be happy for
a more turn key solution.
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Regarding video, I've done a few animations. (http://www.shutterstock.com/video/clip-18378832-stock-footage-orange-man-virtual-reality-walking-on-a-treadmill-exploring-an-artificial-universe-jogging-walk.html?src=search/2VoAE4H8nFIyU_UyZz5xrw:1:0/3p) If I had to make a system for myself including video this is what I would do:
Interface with Youtube somehow (either directly or API) and have all of my previews there. Then I would simply have a youtube preview on the given product, included in as seemless a way as possible.
I would do this for myself for these reasons:
1: Youtube is a promotional area anyways, and I can passively acquire a fan base there.
2: Youtube has a perfected system and I wouldn't have to reinvent the wheel.
3: No load on my personal site.
4: Far easier, less error prone. This is not laziness, but practicality.
[edit, I just realized not everyone has access to youtube, but the same reasoning applies in using a complementing service, but I will look into the on-site option as well]
The system is more concerned with selling products unspecifically, unconcerned with types, so that your limitations are removed. I believe this approach takes away one's constraints as the years force them to have to adapt.
I'd like feedback on the video thing. Including video streamers on-site seems like an unecessary use of resources with unecessary complexities...but if its otherwise please let me know.
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The more turn key the better, you can have add on's for $$ and charge for setting up the hosting. I would be happy for
a more turn key solution.
Speed and simplicity are my main concerns with this.
I think everyone would benefit if I designed for seniors who have put their investment into their skills and not so much web/software. In short, if those people don't have to learn a new skill, then the people who are practiced in this stuff with get a big break too.
Again, feedback wanted. Perhaps, as you say, upgrades can be available for more specific and complex needs.
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You are reading my mind. I want it Leo, looks good, and I don't care about uploading to DP. Just need a good self publishing site, raster and vector. Also yes to selling video would be a good match for most of us.
Make the basic good working site first, add the tricks and fancy parts later.
Thanks Yada. It appears by the comments and views on this thread there is interest, so I might get official in eventually releasing what I've shown above.
I am currently rewriting it, and will post updates.
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What about the wordpress sell direct website for $25 a month. Is that an alternative? I am also looking for a sell direct site for prints. But I am not the most technical savvy guy on this stuff.
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What about the wordpress sell direct website for $25 a month. Is that an alternative? I am also looking for a sell direct site for prints. But I am not the most technical savvy guy on this stuff.
I'm getting away from wordpress altogether, but that will not stop people interested in blogging from putting wordpress into a directory, allowing other things. Its largely a performance and complexity thing for most.
Do many people sell physical products here? If so, I can make some alterations to allow it, but I want to ensure it is a demand.
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The problem with selling direct is not finding a platform to sell from; Leo is here trying to rake in business again, and there are other alternatives to selling direct already out there.
The problem is marketing yourself and getting people to buy directly from you. There are likely a few people who have been successful at this, but it's because they already know about building websites, SEO, marketing, social media, blogging, and spending the time to do all of those things. Most photographers are, well, photographers. Until that happens, having the most excellent, awesome website in the world isn't going to help.
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The problem with selling direct is not finding a platform to sell from; Leo is here trying to rake in business again, and there are other alternatives to selling direct already out there.
The problem is marketing yourself and getting people to buy directly from you. There are likely a few people who have been successful at this, but it's because they already know about building websites, SEO, marketing, social media, blogging, and spending the time to do all of those things. Most photographers are, well, photographers. Until that happens, having the most excellent, awesome website in the world isn't going to help.
Cathy I'm flattered how determined you are to keep me in your social sniper-scope throughout the years. I come and go months apart, but you are always here waiting. You are welcome to stand back at a safe distance until the outcome is complete, then resume trolling on something tangible.
Meanwhile, as mentioned, I am only here due to prodding. You wanna troll a genuine huckster I got just the guy for you. Otherwise building flight simulator controllers and doing other things is more my concern, and certainly not dealing with frazzle-haired dysfunctional women.
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The problem with selling direct is not finding a platform to sell from; Leo is here trying to rake in business again, and there are other alternatives to selling direct already out there.
The problem is marketing yourself and getting people to buy directly from you. There are likely a few people who have been successful at this, but it's because they already know about building websites, SEO, marketing, social media, blogging, and spending the time to do all of those things. Most photographers are, well, photographers. Until that happens, having the most excellent, awesome website in the world isn't going to help.
Cathy I'm flattered how determined you are to keep me in your social sniper-scope throughout the years. I come and go months apart, but you are always here waiting. You are welcome to stand back at a safe distance until the outcome is complete, then resume trolling on something tangible.
Meanwhile, as mentioned, I am only here due to prodding. You wanna troll a genuine huckster I got just the guy for you. Otherwise building flight simulator controllers and doing other things is more my concern, and certainly not dealing with frazzle-haired dysfunctional women.
Ah, there you are. You missed the whole point of my post...by the way, my hair is absolutely straight. ;)
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The problem with selling direct is not finding a platform to sell from; Leo is here trying to rake in business again, and there are other alternatives to selling direct already out there.
The problem is marketing yourself and getting people to buy directly from you. There are likely a few people who have been successful at this, but it's because they already know about building websites, SEO, marketing, social media, blogging, and spending the time to do all of those things. Most photographers are, well, photographers. Until that happens, having the most excellent, awesome website in the world isn't going to help.
Cathy I'm flattered how determined you are to keep me in your social sniper-scope throughout the years. I come and go months apart, but you are always here waiting. You are welcome to stand back at a safe distance until the outcome is complete, then resume trolling on something tangible.
Meanwhile, as mentioned, I am only here due to prodding. You wanna troll a genuine huckster I got just the guy for you. Otherwise building flight simulator controllers and doing other things is more my concern, and certainly not dealing with frazzle-haired dysfunctional women.
Ah, there you are. You missed the whole point of my post...by the way, my hair is absolutely straight. ;)
I didn't miss the point. The point is to troll, so that is what is addressed.
Also when I speak of a masterpiece system that can potentially create a beautiful graveyard for your images, I don't think I'm boasting of merchantability am I? So perhaps you missed a few things?
I'm requesting some intervention that the moderator delete this part of the conversation (from Cathy to this point) so as to keep it pointed.
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My comment was on point...you want it deleted just because you dont like what i said. Looks to me like you are the one that should be deleted, since all you did was call me names.
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My comment was on point...you want it deleted just because you dont like what i said. Looks to me like you are the one that should be deleted, since all you did was call me names.
I disagree with the need to delete, but your knock against leo was gratuitous (besides being incorrect)
your other comments were redundant and served no positive purpose other than trying to re-ignite old flames
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My comment was on point...you want it deleted just because you dont like what i said. Looks to me like you are the one that should be deleted, since all you did was call me names.
I disagree with the need to delete, but your knock against leo was gratuitous (besides being incorrect)
your other comments were redundant and served no positive purpose other than trying to re-ignite old flames
She could have had her say at the outset, but she showed up when the thread got popular. Cathy, you will not be receiving any more replies from me for the duration of this.
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My comment was on point...you want it deleted just because you dont like what i said. Looks to me like you are the one that should be deleted, since all you did was call me names.
I disagree with the need to delete, but your knock against leo was gratuitous (besides being incorrect)
your other comments were redundant and served no positive purpose other than trying to re-ignite old flames
Your opinion. I have just as much right to express my opinion as anyone else. What I stated was fact...he has been here before talking about a great solution for direct selling. As far as redundant, is there someone else in this thread who talked about the real problem with selling direct? I dont see that.
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My comment was on point...you want it deleted just because you dont like what i said. Looks to me like you are the one that should be deleted, since all you did was call me names.
I disagree with the need to delete, but your knock against leo was gratuitous (besides being incorrect)
your other comments were redundant and served no positive purpose other than trying to re-ignite old flames
She could have had her say at the outset, but she showed up when the thread got popular. Cathy, you will not be receiving any more replies from me for the duration of this.
Too bad you didnt take that course of action in post # 19 when you decided to resume your same old ways by calling me names instead of addressing my comment or just ignoring it.
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...and there are other alternatives to selling direct already out there.
There are no cost effective ways to sell video directly which is primarily my interest. I've tried the few direct sell platforms that support video and they are very expensive and clunky. I love Leo's idea about using YouTube for previews. Built in promotion (YouTube videos rank very highly in google searches) and the cost of bandwidth from playing previews is eliminated. I'm interested!
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...and there are other alternatives to selling direct already out there.
There are no cost effective ways to sell video directly which is primarily my interest. I've tried the few direct sell platforms that support video and they are very expensive and clunky. I love Leo's idea about using YouTube for previews. Built in promotion (YouTube videos rank very highly in google searches) and the cost of bandwidth from playing previews is eliminated. I'm interested!
I had checked into it and seems possible to use the youtube API (so the software does it for you, you don't have to upload/link yourself) https://developers.google.com/youtube/v3/docs/videos/insert
The downside of that youtube *might* be restricted in certain countries. I've heard that often in this forum. Is that still the case?
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I don't see anything wrong with Cathy's first post on this thread, she is entitled to her opinion and shouldn't be called a troll for that. Leo requesting deletions is wrong, this is an open forum, I don't agree with someone selling something being able to delete posts that offer an opinion that's valid.
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Its a go. I would like to thank those who had encouraged me to start this up again. I will be sure to give you something special.
I'll set up a youtube account special for updates on this and post videos instead of pictures.
-Leo
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Just to be clear, this will not attempt to be an agency or connect users (no co-ops) but rather a perfected sell-direct solution that keeps things simple and productive for artists. There will likely be a community for support and fun available right through the software, but that will not be a primary focus.
The community forum is quite important and I recall that in the heydays of Symbiostock, the forum was a great help in getting many members operational, and it also served as an effective recruitment tool for new members. There was a tremendous spirit and solidarity between the Symbiostockers (until the whole thing fell apart).
By the way, the very first and very simple Symbiostock forum platform was the best.
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There are no cost effective ways to sell video directly which is primarily my interest. I've tried the few direct sell platforms that support video and they are very expensive and clunky. I love Leo's idea about using YouTube for previews. Built in promotion (YouTube videos rank very highly in google searches) and the cost of bandwidth from playing previews is eliminated. I'm interested!
I had checked into it and seems possible to use the youtube API (so the software does it for you, you don't have to upload/link yourself) https://developers.google.com/youtube/v3/docs/videos/insert
The downside of that youtube *might* be restricted in certain countries. I've heard that often in this forum. Is that still the case?
Some countries, like China, ban youtube and vimeo altogether.
Others countries, i.e. Germany, censor certain American (and maybe other) video+audio productions. I don't know if the censorship applies also to other items.
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Just to be clear, this will not attempt to be an agency or connect users (no co-ops) but rather a perfected sell-direct solution that keeps things simple and productive for artists. There will likely be a community for support and fun available right through the software, but that will not be a primary focus.
The community forum is quite important and I recall that in the heydays of Symbiostock, the forum was a great help in getting many members operational, and it also served as an effective recruitment tool for new members. There was a tremendous spirit and solidarity between the Symbiostockers (until the whole thing fell apart).
By the way, the very first and very simple Symbiostock forum platform was the best.
It would be nice to reclaim that happy and creative spirit that drove the early part of that project.
Your observations are good, and I think having something very simple and very straightforward platform will probably serve a foundation for a happy group of users. Call it silly, but a quiet tech support and a loud off-topic-area would probably be the ultimate achievement :).
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My comment was on point...you want it deleted just because you dont like what i said. Looks to me like you are the one that should be deleted, since all you did was call me names.
I disagree with the need to delete, but your knock against leo was gratuitous (besides being incorrect)
your other comments were redundant and served no positive purpose other than trying to re-ignite old flames
Your opinion. I have just as much right to express my opinion as anyone else. What I stated was fact...he has been here before talking about a great solution for direct selling. As far as redundant, is there someone else in this thread who talked about the real problem with selling direct? I dont see that.
http://www.microstockgroup.com/selling-direct/creating-your-own-stock-agency-software-question/msg474266/?topicseen#new (http://www.microstockgroup.com/selling-direct/creating-your-own-stock-agency-software-question/msg474266/?topicseen#new)
where such topics were recently discussed
and
http://www.microstockgroup.com/selling-direct/best-platform-to-sell-direct/msg474275/?topicseen#new (http://www.microstockgroup.com/selling-direct/best-platform-to-sell-direct/msg474275/?topicseen#new)
where YOU made your usual derogatory comments just days ago, with no contribution -- you're entitled to your opinion but for years now it's the same old anti-leo diatribes - -- BASTA!
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My comment was on point...you want it deleted just because you dont like what i said. Looks to me like you are the one that should be deleted, since all you did was call me names.
I disagree with the need to delete, but your knock against leo was gratuitous (besides being incorrect)
your other comments were redundant and served no positive purpose other than trying to re-ignite old flames
Your opinion. I have just as much right to express my opinion as anyone else. What I stated was fact...he has been here before talking about a great solution for direct selling. As far as redundant, is there someone else in this thread who talked about the real problem with selling direct? I dont see that.
[url]http://www.microstockgroup.com/selling-direct/creating-your-own-stock-agency-software-question/msg474266/?topicseen#new[/url] ([url]http://www.microstockgroup.com/selling-direct/creating-your-own-stock-agency-software-question/msg474266/?topicseen#new[/url])
where such topics were recently discussed
and
[url]http://www.microstockgroup.com/selling-direct/best-platform-to-sell-direct/msg474275/?topicseen#new[/url] ([url]http://www.microstockgroup.com/selling-direct/best-platform-to-sell-direct/msg474275/?topicseen#new[/url])
where YOU made your usual derogatory comments just days ago, with no contribution -- you're entitled to your opinion but for years now it's the same old anti-leo diatribes - -- BASTA! i
OMG are you angry or what! But it makes perfect sense that you would be the biggest Leo fanboy since you are one of those who benefitted most from the whole fiasco.
There is an ignore button...if you dont like what i say...use it for gosh sakes! LOL!
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As far as your first link, I never even made a comment, so not sure what your point is. How can i be redundant when i made no comment?
Second link...again, I have every right to make a comment as you or anybody else, whether you think it is derogatory or not. Take a look...some of my comments others agree with, so there you go.
As far as basta goes, NO! Certainly not because YOU are telling me! LOL!
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My thoughts on direct selling is that it is business model not likely to succeed, or rather not generate enough sales for it to have been worth anyone's time. From reading various threads over the years here, I think that has turned out to be the case. Think about it from the customer's point of view. I used to buy stock photos for work, so I once thought like a customer. How am I going to spend the least amount of time searching for the best possible image for myself or my client? I'm going to go a mega big site like shutterstock or istockphoto or adobestock, or gettyimages because I know that is where I'll spend the least amount of time getting the right image for my project. Can you imagine the nightmare it would be if I had to remember 500 individual photographer's websites and go to each one by one and do my search in the hopes they might have something suitable? The latter just isn't going to happen. Say you get an individual website up to sell photos. How are you going to let the hundreds of thousands of graphic designers know you exist? Will you be spending tens of thousands of dollars on Google adwords? You guys are trying to solve a problem that exist for you, but does not exist for the customer.
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@cascoly what is your opinion of the inter-site search network that we all had? Hindsite is 20/20, I'm curious what you think.
I didn't intend to carry on anything like that in this endeavor, but still I'm curious. You had contributed very well to it.
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My thoughts on direct selling is that it is business model not likely to succeed ....
For brevity I shortened the quote, but I'm replying to the whole of what you said.
You are correct on everything. Intentions and expectations are more the issue. I no longer look at my website as a solution to any greater problem -- I just like having it. I built my more recent one to do infinite-autopilot (and I junked wordpress forever!). So what happens now is the occasional $10 sale with no effort on my part. The customer gets a quick download and moves on. So the time to effort ratio is good, although I often joke that my website is a vending machine or graveyard. Either way its still being productive without attention from me.
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My thoughts on direct selling is that it is business model not likely to succeed, or rather not generate enough sales for it to have been worth anyone's time. From reading various threads over the years here, I think that has turned out to be the case. Think about it from the customer's point of view. I used to buy stock photos for work, so I once thought like a customer. How am I going to spend the least amount of time searching for the best possible image for myself or my client? I'm going to go a mega big site like shutterstock or istockphoto or adobestock, or gettyimages because I know that is where I'll spend the least amount of time getting the right image for my project. Can you imagine the nightmare it would be if I had to remember 500 individual photographer's websites and go to each one by one and do my search in the hopes they might have something suitable? The latter just isn't going to happen. Say you get an individual website up to sell photos. How are you going to let the hundreds of thousands of graphic designers know you exist? Will you be spending tens of thousands of dollars on Google adwords? You guys are trying to solve a problem that exist for you, but does not exist for the customer.
SAD BUT TRUE. Not much to add.
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...,. you would be the biggest Leo fanboy since you are one of those who benefitted most from the whole fiasco.
this is SLANDER -- you have nothing with which to back up this absurd claim -- let us know when you return from the trump-fake-news-whingers universe (or better, don't bother)
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@cascoly what is your opinion of the inter-site search network that we all had? Hindsite is 20/20, I'm curious what you think.
I didn't intend to carry on anything like that in this endeavor, but still I'm curious. You had contributed very well to it.
I thought it was a great feature, and it did well in google analytics wrt views -- for me, it didn't generate many sales, no idea if others benefited, but it was so simple (& fun) to set up & run that it made sense to pursue it. for me the consolidated (anonymous) aggregation of keywords, etc was also helpful
as I wrote earlier, I think the biggest problem is google image search where my images from 123,ss et al get higher rankings than my sym images
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I missed this thread! I'm in Leo. FYI my GRFX site is still working perfectly from the get go.
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I missed this thread! I'm in Leo. FYI my GRFX site is still working perfectly from the get go.
That is good to know! Very good to know! I never really got complaints from that, other than the fact I took it off wordpress's plugin network.
My thoughts on direct selling is that it is business model not likely to succeed...
SAD BUT TRUE. Not much to add.
I might have to simplify it a bit and just say it:
I'm talking to people who just want to have a website that sells (or can sell) images.
The second main statement I've been making:
I want to simplify and speed this process considerably.
But again, I agree! You'd have to be a special case (these days) to make bank selling independent these days. Hopefully this clarification will help.
Think "Vending machine" 8)
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My ideal site is the same as it was in the beginning. I would love to have one site with three or six or ten like minded shooters with complementary portfolios (size, skill level, complementary subjects) and end up with something with about 100K or so bankable images under one roof. We'd all self market our respective niches and go from there.
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Another person mentioned that in this thread as well. Multiple submitters. Would that sort of thing be used often?
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It might be a good idea to split this thread into two - one constructive and optimistic, and the other one critical and reminiscing about all previously failed projects. But no intermixing allowed! (unless you walk the full El Camino de Santiago trail to do a proper soul searching before switching to the other camp). We could even call them Yes and No groups. Or "We Can" and "No way Jose".
I have a hunch which of the two threads would be more fun and live longer, but I'd been known to bet on a wrong horse before. Paradoxically, so did over 60 millions of other optimistists very recently.
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...,. you would be the biggest Leo fanboy since you are one of those who benefitted most from the whole fiasco.
this is SLANDER -- you have nothing with which to back up this absurd claim -- let us know when you return from the trump-fake-news-whingers universe (or better, don't bother)
:D
Slander...my backup is what you said yourself a couple of posts back..."it did well in google analytics".
You guys are too funny! When all else fails with staying on topic and being professional, start bullying and name calling.
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It might be a good idea to split this thread into two - one constructive and optimistic, and the other one critical and reminiscing about all previously failed projects. But no intermixing allowed! (unless you walk the full El Camino de Santiago trail to do a proper soul searching before switching to the other camp). We could even call them Yes and No groups. Or "We Can" and "No way Jose".
I have a hunch which of the two threads would be more fun and live longer, but I'd been known to bet on a wrong horse before. Paradoxically, so did over 60 millions of other optimistists very recently.
At first I thought you were joking, but this thing has gotten so bad it might be a good idea. If nothing else, a start-over with some opening text explaining that this is a simple program I'm creating (not a save-the-industry-scheme, not an everyone-make-me-rich scheme, etc). Maybe if we pre-address the troll-able accuse-able stuff ahead of time the only people commenting will be people genuinely interested? I think people have trained themselves to overanalyze these things to the point that a simple image-watermarker and website-uploader is considered a weapon of the antichrist.
I don't want to overwhelm MSG though.
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BTW - Photodeck created functionality for easy extraction of image info in xml file, this allow quickly create websites for image search on another platform or participate in cooperation with other photographers. No hot-linking to your site, once downloaded watermarked thumbs of several sizes and image info. No additional costs for your cloud based host. Simple program will allow to prepare ready update packages for coop platforms. Yes, before it was complicated there, now - easy.
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At first I thought you were joking, but this thing has gotten so bad it might be a good idea. If nothing else, a start-over with some opening text explaining that this is a simple program I'm creating (not a save-the-industry-scheme, not an everyone-make-me-rich scheme, etc). Maybe if we pre-address the troll-able accuse-able stuff ahead of time the only people commenting will be people genuinely interested? I think people have trained themselves to overanalyze these things to the point that a simple image-watermarker and website-uploader is considered a weapon of the antichrist.
I don't want to overwhelm MSG though.
You have already done that. Twice. The people that are interested told you so. Why not get on with actually building the thing? ;)
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What we really need is a "Shopify" like platform for mikrostockers, and it needs to be from serious, dedicated and committed intrapreneurs. The rest is bla bla bla...
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My thoughts on direct selling is that it is business model not likely to succeed, or rather not generate enough sales for it to have been worth anyone's time. From reading various threads over the years here, I think that has turned out to be the case. Think about it from the customer's point of view. I used to buy stock photos for work, so I once thought like a customer. How am I going to spend the least amount of time searching for the best possible image for myself or my client? I'm going to go a mega big site like shutterstock or istockphoto or adobestock, or gettyimages because I know that is where I'll spend the least amount of time getting the right image for my project. Can you imagine the nightmare it would be if I had to remember 500 individual photographer's websites and go to each one by one and do my search in the hopes they might have something suitable? The latter just isn't going to happen. Say you get an individual website up to sell photos. How are you going to let the hundreds of thousands of graphic designers know you exist? Will you be spending tens of thousands of dollars on Google adwords? You guys are trying to solve a problem that exist for you, but does not exist for the customer.
It will succeed if you understand why buyers search places other than the big stock sites. Then offer something unique to address their needs and have a strategy for them to find you.
The approach that hasn't worked for contributors is to take their microstock portfolio, dump it into a website, and hope to sell something. The question nobody seems to ask is, what does your website offer that buyers can't get through the big stock sites? Like you said, think like a customer.
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It takes an incredible amount of time, work, knowledge of SEO, etc. etc. to expect to sell from a personal website. A small percentage of the total number of photographers out there will succeed, if they are dedicated to the above things. There are only so many slots in the first 3 pages of a search. Not everybody can pay for page 1 or generate the traffic to be on page 1. I see niche images having the best chance for success, which i think is what you are saying. The majority of us don't.
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My ideal site is the same as it was in the beginning. I would love to have one site with three or six or ten like minded shooters with complementary portfolios (size, skill level, complementary subjects) and end up with something with about 100K or so bankable images under one roof. We'd all self market our respective niches and go from there.
with just a few other photogs, it would be easy to set up an external communal search site, exporting image info; so you could do it with Leo's new system
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...,. you would be the biggest Leo fanboy since you are one of those who benefitted most from the whole fiasco.
this is SLANDER -- you have nothing with which to back up this absurd claim -- let us know when you return from the trump-fake-news-whingers universe (or better, don't bother)
:D
Slander...my backup is what you said yourself a couple of posts back..."it did well in google analytics".
You guys are too funny! When all else fails with staying on topic and being professional, start bullying and name calling.
you get funnier all the time -- do you even know the difference between analytics views and purchases?
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LOL. ;) And you get meaner all the time.
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My comment was on point...you want it deleted just because you dont like what i said. Looks to me like you are the one that should be deleted, since all you did was call me names.
I disagree with the need to delete, but your knock against leo was gratuitous (besides being incorrect)
your other comments were redundant and served no positive purpose other than trying to re-ignite old flames
She could have had her say at the outset, but she showed up when the thread got popular. Cathy, you will not be receiving any more replies from me for the duration of this.
I actually don't recall him trying to rake in money from us at any point ... the extras and addons sure, and possibly whatever he made from the transfer of Symbio which, when I checked a few months ago was severely out of date and had compatibility issues. So it's dead if I'm not mistaken.
He made some off of HIS OWN WORK. What did we contribute to Symbiostock ... testing scenarios? Plugin developers make money from support and premium plugins, and while premium plugins were offered, support was always given and dealt with in a timely manner. If you don't want to buy something, just don't ... it's that easy. There were never any promises of earnings or potential ...
Anyhow, nice to see you alive and doing well Leo. Keep up the good work.
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@cascoly what is your opinion of the inter-site search network that we all had? Hindsite is 20/20, I'm curious what you think.
I didn't intend to carry on anything like that in this endeavor, but still I'm curious. You had contributed very well to it.
Wow, I didn't read like .. 2 pages worth of crap.
The search system I feel like was fine ... The search page could have used some significant improvements. It was more like it was designed for us to go search for ourselves. Not buyers searching for images.
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Anyhow, nice to see you alive and doing well Leo. Keep up the good work.
Thank you! And good to you see you too!
I'm simply having fun with the challenge this presents. Its also extremely attractive to me (not so much a matter of selling it, but just making and using it).
Here is a similar example, Jekyll http://jekyllrb.com/ (http://jekyllrb.com/) -- Look at their introduction. Very attractive isn't it?
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My comment was on point...you want it deleted just because you dont like what i said. Looks to me like you are the one that should be deleted, since all you did was call me names.
I disagree with the need to delete, but your knock against leo was gratuitous (besides being incorrect)
your other comments were redundant and served no positive purpose other than trying to re-ignite old flames
She could have had her say at the outset, but she showed up when the thread got popular. Cathy, you will not be receiving any more replies from me for the duration of this.
I actually don't recall him trying to rake in money from us at any point ... the extras and addons sure, and possibly whatever he made from the transfer of Symbio which, when I checked a few months ago was severely out of date and had compatibility issues. So it's dead if I'm not mistaken.
He made some off of HIS OWN WORK. What did we contribute to Symbiostock ... testing scenarios? Plugin developers make money from support and premium plugins, and while premium plugins were offered, support was always given and dealt with in a timely manner. If you don't want to buy something, just don't ... it's that easy. There were never any promises of earnings or potential ...
Anyhow, nice to see you alive and doing well Leo. Keep up the good work.
You should have taken the time to read the 2 pages of crap. In there, you will see that my first comment was directly related to this thread, not the past, not ANY of the things you are talking about above. Instead, it is Leo and cascoly talking crap...but hey, just ignore that. They have. :)
My only comment was that cascoly is defensive because he had a stake in the first go-around. And i dont care whether it was sales, SEO positioning, or whatever he wants to call it or laugh at me about. ::)
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My ideal site is the same as it was in the beginning. I would love to have one site with three or six or ten like minded shooters with complementary portfolios (size, skill level, complementary subjects) and end up with something with about 100K or so bankable images under one roof. We'd all self market our respective niches and go from there.
with just a few other photogs, it would be easy to set up an external communal search site, exporting image info; so you could do it with Leo's new system
True, but what i envision is more backend stuff, only one login for a customer, and easy distribution of dollars to whomever sells photos through one site. Easy enough to allow access to shooters to upload photos to one site, but paying them for sales is the hard part (in my mind). I am not techie enough to automate that.
I think right now few individuals make enough on a self hosted site, but 3-10 might be able to carve out some sales for niche subjects (ie science, industrial, etc). Its not about competing with the agencies, its about finding those few companies and people that only need specific subjects and genres and not have to search through millions of unrelated images. Might be interesting. :)
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True, but what i envision is more backend stuff, only one login for a customer, and easy distribution of dollars to whomever sells photos through one site. Easy enough to allow access to shooters to upload photos to one site, but paying them for sales is the hard part (in my mind). I am not techie enough to automate that.
I think right now few individuals make enough on a self hosted site, but 3-10 might be able to carve out some sales for niche subjects (ie science, industrial, etc). Its not about competing with the agencies, its about finding those few companies and people that only need specific subjects and genres and not have to search through millions of unrelated images. Might be interesting. :)
For starters, I will ensure that one site can contain multiple submitters. That is a sensible thing to do in the beginning -- ensuring that 1 site is not locked to 1 user. So the first release won't necessarily be built for multiple users -- it will just be blind to the idea of contributors, accepting images under a given author with a password and organizing it as such.
Inevitably people will want tracking of sales and book-keeping, so that might be a latter plugin (and I'll attempt to keep it all pluggable). I'm really adhering to the KISS (http://whatis.techtarget.com/definition/KISS-Principle-Keep-It-Simple-Stupid) principle with this project as much as possible.
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True, but what i envision is more backend stuff, only one login for a customer, and easy distribution of dollars to whomever sells photos through one site. Easy enough to allow access to shooters to upload photos to one site, but paying them for sales is the hard part (in my mind). I am not techie enough to automate that.
I think right now few individuals make enough on a self hosted site, but 3-10 might be able to carve out some sales for niche subjects (ie science, industrial, etc). Its not about competing with the agencies, its about finding those few companies and people that only need specific subjects and genres and not have to search through millions of unrelated images. Might be interesting. :)
For starters, I will ensure that one site can contain multiple submitters. That is a sensible thing to do in the beginning -- ensuring that 1 site is not locked to 1 user. So the first release won't necessarily be built for multiple users -- it will just be blind to the idea of contributors, accepting images under a given author with a password and organizing it as such.
Inevitably people will want tracking of sales and book-keeping, so that might be a latter plugin (and I'll attempt to keep it all pluggable). I'm really adhering to the KISS ([url]http://whatis.techtarget.com/definition/KISS-Principle-Keep-It-Simple-Stupid[/url]) principle with this project as much as possible.
No worries at all, just thinking out load. Xenos is already pretty awesome, I said that in the beginning. :)
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snip from reply #49 on page 2
Maybe if we pre-address the troll-able accuse-able stuff ahead of time the only people commenting will be people genuinely interested?
Mission accomplished. Start talking about the old issues, and make it sound like someone else is the crazy, stupid one bringing it up. You boys certainly have an honest, above board way of doing business. As always. ::)
from post #41 cascoly
is absurd claim -- let us know when you return from the trump-fake-news-whingers universe
This comment makes it sound like you are a Trump fan. That must be who you boys get your business model from.
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It seems there are maybe half a dozen people left who are interested in Leo's wares.
It would probably be more efficient and less contentious if Leo just communicated with those handful of people by PM or email.
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Wow! Sorry that this thread was trolled so badly and that I wasted so much time trying to get through the pointless banter.
Sounds interesting. I've always wanted to host my own database but any time I've tried Wordpress I just gave up because it always felt bloated.
What I'm primarily interested in is a clean, ultra search engine friendly site to host thumbnails / previews to drive customers to an agency using a referral code.
Anyone working towards a stronger photography community should be encouraged, not trolled.
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Wow! Sorry that this thread was trolled so badly and that I wasted so much time trying to get through the pointless banter.
Sounds interesting. I've always wanted to host my own database but any time I've tried Wordpress I just gave up because it always felt bloated.
What I'm primarily interested in is a clean, ultra search engine friendly site to host thumbnails / previews to drive customers to an agency using a referral code.
Anyone working towards a stronger photography community should be encouraged, not trolled.
Do you even know what a troll is? I don't necessarily agree with everything some people throw at Leo but he doesn't deal with it well and overreacts. If he genuinely considers this trolling, why would he keep feeding the troll? It's a shame we can't have differing opinions without the name calling but you have to have a thick skin if you want to use an open forum that doesn't have a lot of moderation. As Leo has been through all this in the past, I hoped he would of found a better way of dealing with it by now.
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Wow! Sorry that this thread was trolled so badly and that I wasted so much time trying to get through the pointless banter.
Sounds interesting. I've always wanted to host my own database but any time I've tried Wordpress I just gave up because it always felt bloated.
What I'm primarily interested in is a clean, ultra search engine friendly site to host thumbnails / previews to drive customers to an agency using a referral code.
Anyone working towards a stronger photography community should be encouraged, not trolled.
How do you figure calling people names, asking they be blocked because they express their opinion in a professional manner, and getting angry is someone working towards a stronger community? Some of you seem to have a blind spot. How you can consider working with such people is beyond me.
If the goal is to actually write software, why isnt there a separate forum set up by the developer where only people interested can go to discuss that software? Why wasnt a link provided in the first post so people could interact directly with the developer somewhere else besides here? My answer is because maybe drama is the whole point, not actually creating software. I cant come up with any other answer why it keeps happening over and over.
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Wow! Sorry that this thread was trolled so badly and that I wasted so much time trying to get through the pointless banter.
Sounds interesting. I've always wanted to host my own database but any time I've tried Wordpress I just gave up because it always felt bloated.
What I'm primarily interested in is a clean, ultra search engine friendly site to host thumbnails / previews to drive customers to an agency using a referral code.
Anyone working towards a stronger photography community should be encouraged, not trolled.
Wordpress is sort of like a swiss-army-knife, so that is a natural side effect. I've had to get away from it for a few reasons.
What I'm primarily interested in is a clean, ultra search engine friendly site to host thumbnails / previews to drive customers to an agency using a referral code.
This will be massively devoid of customization features, but clean is a leading goal. My current site is fairly accurate example of what this will produce. Its extremely minimal and serves the purpose of utility more than style. Example page. (http://www.clipartillustration.com/portfolio/dandelion-pattern-3d-generated-top-view-with-black-background/)
The referral code is not a bad idea either. My original project had a big provision for that -- I might include it in this as well.
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My comment was on point...you want it deleted just because you dont like what i said. Looks to me like you are the one that should be deleted, since all you did was call me names.
I disagree with the need to delete, but your knock against leo was gratuitous (besides being incorrect)
your other comments were redundant and served no positive purpose other than trying to re-ignite old flames
She could have had her say at the outset, but she showed up when the thread got popular. Cathy, you will not be receiving any more replies from me for the duration of this.
I actually don't recall him trying to rake in money from us at any point ... the extras and addons sure, and possibly whatever he made from the transfer of Symbio which, when I checked a few months ago was severely out of date and had compatibility issues. So it's dead if I'm not mistaken.
He made some off of HIS OWN WORK. What did we contribute to Symbiostock ... testing scenarios? Plugin developers make money from support and premium plugins, and while premium plugins were offered, support was always given and dealt with in a timely manner. If you don't want to buy something, just don't ... it's that easy. There were never any promises of earnings or potential ...
Anyhow, nice to see you alive and doing well Leo. Keep up the good work.
You should have taken the time to read the 2 pages of crap. In there, you will see that my first comment was directly related to this thread, not the past, not ANY of the things you are talking about above. Instead, it is Leo and cascoly talking crap...but hey, just ignore that. They have. :)
My only comment was that cascoly is defensive because he had a stake in the first go-around. And i dont care whether it was sales, SEO positioning, or whatever he wants to call it or laugh at me about. ::)
Well, I'm not going to get involved in the pointless banter. I think the OP was to update us on what he's working on. I'm not sure why everything has to be an argument on MSG. We all could use a dose of respect and humility.
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Happy New Year to all Direct and Exploited-by-agencies sellers!
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cool another dead end project. ;D
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Well, I'm not going to get involved in the pointless banter.
If you didnt read the pages, how do you know there was 2 pages of crap and pointless banter? Did someone give you a heads up and call upon you to come over here and comment?
Not everything is an argument on MSG, but this is a public forum. Forums are where everybody gets to have their say, according to the rules of the forum host. Just because some people dont like what is being said, doesnt necessarily make it pointless crap and banter.
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Well, I'm not going to get involved in the pointless banter.
If you didnt read the pages, how do you know there was 2 pages of crap and pointless banter? Did someone give you a heads up and call upon you to come over here and comment?
Not everything is an argument on MSG, but this is a public forum. Forums are where everybody gets to have their say, according to the rules of the forum host. Just because some people dont like what is being said, doesnt necessarily make it pointless crap and banter.
No Cathy ... I read the comments on the first page, replied and realized that we were 3 pages deep ... I get the emails of trending threads, and I click on them to engage with others as I sip my coffee ...
You can't really say that it's not pointless crap and banter, when there's rarely an actual solution to an issue posted but, instead it's generally the tearing down of another and the work that they're doing.
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Well, I'm not going to get involved in the pointless banter.
If you didnt read the pages, how do you know there was 2 pages of crap and pointless banter? Did someone give you a heads up and call upon you to come over here and comment?
Not everything is an argument on MSG, but this is a public forum. Forums are where everybody gets to have their say, according to the rules of the forum host. Just because some people dont like what is being said, doesnt necessarily make it pointless crap and banter.
No Cathy ... I read the comments on the first page, replied and realized that we were 3 pages deep ... I get the emails of trending threads, and I click on them to engage with others as I sip my coffee ...
You can't really say that it's not pointless crap and banter, when there's rarely an actual solution to an issue posted but, instead it's generally the tearing down of another and the work that they're doing.
LOL ;)
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I get the emails of trending threads, and I click on them to engage with others as I sip my coffee ...
I totally get that! That makes me happy.
Right now:
- Laptop, easy chair.
- Large cup of coffee on my left (cold, black, left over from yesterday, but still good).
- Fruit gummies settling in Li hing mui powder (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li_hing_mui), probably ready tonight.
- Wife and daughter watching Brady Bunch. Son reading.
- Cheap laptop, Linux, working on Xenos.
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I still have my legacy Symbiostock site
Its up and functioning, havent paid much attention to it for quite sometime, and th results reflect that as well.
I would be interested in still having an independant site, but with everyones images being available from a centralized location - much like how most agencies work today.
Most contributers do not have an extensive enough collection that would garner the interest of buyers, and for buyers to skip from individual site to individual site would be a non starter if I were a buyer.
I would be willing to share proceeds of sales made for maintenance and advertising of this kind of site
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I still have my legacy Symbiostock site
Its up and functioning, havent paid much attention to it for quite sometime, and th results reflect that as well.
I would be interested in still having an independant site, but with everyones images being available from a centralized location - much like how most agencies work today.
Most contributers do not have an extensive enough collection that would garner the interest of buyers, and for buyers to skip from individual site to individual site would be a non starter if I were a buyer.
I would be willing to share proceeds of sales made for maintenance and advertising of this kind of site
That's what I want too but I think it would be better with just one site with one domain and dedicated hosting. It worked to a certain extent with the Warmpicture site that Dan Padavona set up a few years ago. I sold more there than with my symbiostock site. I think the problem was that it was too much work for one person and for it to succeed, a large group of us would have to employ a few people. I would be willing to invest in a co-op style site but there's never been any serious discussion about it and we really need an entrepreneur with the right business skills to see the opportunity. Until then, I'm happy with the sites that pay 50%.
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I still have my legacy Symbiostock site
Its up and functioning, havent paid much attention to it for quite sometime, and th results reflect that as well.
I would be interested in still having an independant site, but with everyones images being available from a centralized location - much like how most agencies work today.
Most contributers do not have an extensive enough collection that would garner the interest of buyers, and for buyers to skip from individual site to individual site would be a non starter if I were a buyer.
I would be willing to share proceeds of sales made for maintenance and advertising of this kind of site
That's what I want too but I think it would be better with just one site with one domain and dedicated hosting. It worked to a certain extent with the Warmpicture site that Dan Padavona set up a few years ago. I sold more there than with my symbiostock site. I think the problem was that it was too much work for one person and for it to succeed, a large group of us would have to employ a few people. I would be willing to invest in a co-op style site but there's never been any serious discussion about it and we really need an entrepreneur with the right business skills to see the opportunity. Until then, I'm happy with the sites that pay 50%.
There was an attempt last year and before. It cannot of course run totally free, because of hosting, development, business parts. These are full time jobs.
BTW - manufacturer always wants to be closer to consumer. Intermediate businesses always want to separate them. The problem is the same in all industries, even in jobs market.
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That's what I want too but I think it would be better with just one site with one domain and dedicated hosting. It worked to a certain extent with the Warmpicture site that Dan Padavona set up a few years ago. I sold more there than with my sym site. I think the problem was that it was too much work for one person and for it to succeed, a large group of us would have to employ a few people. I would be willing to invest in a co-op style site but there's never been any serious discussion about it and we really need an entrepreneur with the right business skills to see the opportunity. Until then, I'm happy with the sites that pay 50%.
Same here. I agree, a little too much work for one person, though Dan did a pretty good job. He had to make a living too though. Maybe a small team, with each person having different skills, i.e. one who excels in SEO, one in social media, etc. and a leader with good communication and interpersonal skills might be able to get something going and succeed. And startup operating capital would be necessary.
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Maybe a small team, with each person having different skills, i.e. one who excels in SEO, one in social media, etc. and a leader with good communication and interpersonal skills might be able to get something going and succeed. And startup operating capital would be necessary.
What you're proposing is close to a microstock co-op. A leader, an IT developer, marketing people and a group of selected photographers. The idea of a microstock co-op had been ridiculed on this forum many times over the years. Then Stocksy emerged out of the blue and bang, a midstock co-op turned out to be relatively succesful. But the skills, knowledge and experience necessary to launch a successful co-op are not so easy to find.
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Basically, but a much smaller scale...not thousands and thousands of contributors. The sites goal would be to make money, sure, but not turn into your typical agency. And i agree, not so easy to find or do. Probably why it hasnt been done yet, except for stocksy (started by a millionaire who already made a name for himself in the business).
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I hesitate to use the S word, but isn't that what the Symzio website does - it pulls together all the contributions of artists using the new Symbiostock plugin into one site with its own branding, and its own ability to purchase direct from that site. As far as a buyer is concerned, there is one site with a large number of images that can be purchased directly from the site. It handles photos, illustrations and videos.
http://www.symzio.com/ (http://www.symzio.com/)
Steve
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I hesitate to use the S word, but isn't that what the Symzio website does - it pulls together all the contributions of artists using the new Symbiostock plugin into one site with its own branding, and its own ability to purchase direct from that site. As far as a buyer is concerned, there is one site with a large number of images that can be purchased directly from the site. It handles photos, illustrations and videos.
[url]http://www.symzio.com/[/url] ([url]http://www.symzio.com/[/url])
Steve
I see some problems with that, every contributor still has the expenses of hosting their own site, that money could be better spent. Then there's the time they all have to spend keeping all those sites going. Also, if it's a success, the symzio.com owner could decide to sell it or get greedy like lots of the microstock sites have. We need something that is controlled by contributors and perhaps designers as well, so it can't be closed down or sold to people that are only interested in making more money from it.
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8)
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Wow! Sorry that this thread was trolled so badly and that I wasted so much time trying to get through the pointless banter.
Sounds interesting. I've always wanted to host my own database but any time I've tried Wordpress I just gave up because it always felt bloated.
What I'm primarily interested in is a clean, ultra search engine friendly site to host thumbnails / previews to drive customers to an agency using a referral code.
Anyone working towards a stronger photography community should be encouraged, not trolled.
Do you even know what a troll is? I don't necessarily agree with everything some people throw at Leo but he doesn't deal with it well and overreacts. If he genuinely considers this trolling, why would he keep feeding the troll?
Yes, I know what a troll is. If troll isn't the best word, then would you accept nagging? Or thread hijacking? Or unsolicited, pointless nonconstructive criticism? As for feeding trolls, I guess that's just human nature, hoping that eventually that person stops being lame and you can get the information you wanted sooner.
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I would say non constructive criticism after an over reaction to a legitimate criticism. Good luck to Leo and I hope one day we can all get the selling platform we want.
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I would say non constructive criticism after an over reaction to a legitimate criticism. Good luck to Leo and I hope one day we can all get the selling platform we want.
A lot of comments after post 18 were by multiple trolls, so why is one person getting singled out? And the conversation in the last few posts had gone back to being on-topic, but ranplett came back here to troll! How is that for being hypocritical? ::)
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Yes, I know what a troll is. If troll isn't the best word, then would you accept nagging? Or thread hijacking? Or unsolicited, pointless nonconstructive criticism? As for feeding trolls, I guess that's just human nature, hoping that eventually that person stops being lame and you can get the information you wanted sooner.
So its human nature to troll a troll.
My posts have all been related to self-hosting. How is that thread hijacking? I guess you must have missed other posts by other people expressing their opinion on self-hosting.
How can posting in a public forum be unsolicited? Unsolicited would be if the developer had his own forum and people went over there to comment uninvited. And just because YOU or he didnt like what was said doesnt mean it was pointless.
My suggestion would be for the developer to provide his own area for developing if he doesnt want to attract "trolls" or be a "troll" himself. Its a very simple solution!
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@cascoly what is your opinion of the inter-site search network that we all had? Hindsite is 20/20, I'm curious what you think.
I didn't intend to carry on anything like that in this endeavor, but still I'm curious. You had contributed very well to it.
(...)
as I wrote earlier, I think the biggest problem is google image search where my images from 123,ss et al get higher rankings than my sym images
the latter is, IMHO, mainly due to Google's insufficient overall image "search" approach which rather randomizes that entire process and yields (random) rankings like the one you mentioned above (these are not even real "search results" notwithstanding the fact that it is labeled "Google"...). Looking for better ways of searching for images for some time now, have been working on some ideas with a guy from Denmark for some time, nothing useful we could release so far in order to cure Google's shortcomings though :(
Much depends on whether or not there is demand (here, maybe?) for a better and wholly different approach to photo and video*) search over the conventional "solutions" out there at Google & similar. Would be lovely to hear whether or not anyone here would be interested in using an improved solution to this problem?
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*) and graphics, of course ;)
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What we really need is a "Shopify" like platform for mikrostockers, and it needs to be from serious, dedicated and committed intrapreneurs. The rest is bla bla bla...
I'd like a nice shop store. I see self hosted rated at 12.4 which make that the 6th best place to sell in the poll? $25 to $50 a month isn't that bad, is it?
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@cascoly what is your opinion of the inter-site search network that we all had? Hindsite is 20/20, I'm curious what you think.
I didn't intend to carry on anything like that in this endeavor, but still I'm curious. You had contributed very well to it.
(...)
as I wrote earlier, I think the biggest problem is google image search where my images from 123,ss et al get higher rankings than my sym images
........
Much depends on whether or not there is demand (here, maybe?) for a better and wholly different approach to photo and video*) search over the conventional "solutions" out there at Google & similar. Would be lovely to hear whether or not anyone here would be interested in using an improved solution to this problem?
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*) and graphics, of course ;)
having a better search in itself won't matter as long as google is how people search for images; and unless your content is both unique and highly desirable I just don't see self hosting as a solution for most people
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One is needed to work with video files as well, I am actively looking for the best solution. I think a great option is to be able to invite people to submit to your site so you could grow your business in the future if you wanted!
i'd love a relatively small but smart video site for a loyal talented artists. If i could, i'd set that up in a heartbeat.
Hey jjnef,
Nice Direct Licensing option at Nimia + marketplace embedding options for your personal site. Here is a little info about it: https://nimia.com/platform/. I use it: https://app.nimia.com/profile/SpaceChimp/ Let me know if you have any questions...
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What we really need is a "Shopify" like platform for mikrostockers, and it needs to be from serious, dedicated and committed intrapreneurs. The rest is bla bla bla...
I'd like a nice shop store. I see self hosted rated at 12.4 which make that the 6th best place to sell in the poll? $25 to $50 a month isn't that bad, is it?
I don't see self hosted in the poll at all this month. I think the average microstocker wouldn't be able to make anywhere near that much without spending a lot of time and money.
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What we really need is a "Shopify" like platform for mikrostockers, and it needs to be from serious, dedicated and committed intrapreneurs. The rest is bla bla bla...
I'd like a nice shop store. I see self hosted rated at 12.4 which make that the 6th best place to sell in the poll? $25 to $50 a month isn't that bad, is it?
I don't see self hosted in the poll at all this month. I think the average microstocker wouldn't be able to make anywhere near that much without spending a lot of time and money.
Hover over the word Self-hosted you see 10 votes 12.2 that's better then everything below it as the names are in order of earnings for all with less then 50 votes. That's a long list of places that make less then self hosted, isn't it?
Now do you see it? 12 would be average of $50 a month for the 10 people who voted. When more people were urged to answer it went higher. Keep in mind the percentage rate for self hosted is around 100% ;D
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What we really need is a "Shopify" like platform for mikrostockers, and it needs to be from serious, dedicated and committed intrapreneurs. The rest is bla bla bla...
I'd like a nice shop store. I see self hosted rated at 12.4 which make that the 6th best place to sell in the poll? $25 to $50 a month isn't that bad, is it?
I don't see self hosted in the poll at all this month. I think the average microstocker wouldn't be able to make anywhere near that much without spending a lot of time and money.
Hover over the word Self-hosted you see 10 votes 12.2 that's better then everything below it as the names are in order of earnings for all with less then 50 votes. That's a long list of places that make less then self hosted, isn't it?
Now do you see it? 12 would be average of $50 a month for the 10 people who voted. When more people were urged to answer it went higher. Keep in mind the percentage rate for self hosted is around 100% ;D
I think though self hosted will be those who are more dedicated and probably skilful than average so may be worth it for some but if you are not full time, super talented or good at self publicity may not prove a good option.
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What we really need is a "Shopify" like platform for mikrostockers, and it needs to be from serious, dedicated and committed intrapreneurs. The rest is bla bla bla...
I'd like a nice shop store. I see self hosted rated at 12.4 which make that the 6th best place to sell in the poll? $25 to $50 a month isn't that bad, is it?
I don't see self hosted in the poll at all this month. I think the average microstocker wouldn't be able to make anywhere near that much without spending a lot of time and money.
Hover over the word Self-hosted you see 10 votes 12.2 that's better then everything below it as the names are in order of earnings for all with less then 50 votes. That's a long list of places that make less then self hosted, isn't it?
Now do you see it? 12 would be average of $50 a month for the 10 people who voted. When more people were urged to answer it went higher. Keep in mind the percentage rate for self hosted is around 100% ;D
I'm sure that some of the big contributors with their own sites do well but they will skew the results, especially with so few people. The 100% is wrong because you need to spend money to have a site. So you need to take your expenses away from the amount you make. I was making a minus percentage, every time I sold something, I effectively paid to do it. I wonder how much those people that did the poll are spending? I also found I was spending more time on my site than I was on any of the others I use and that was as bad as losing money.
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That was my experience as well. I lost money on the site itself and also lost potential income from other sites by wasting a LOT of time building and maintaining my own site, on social media, etc. In hindsight, that time would have been much more productively spent creating new images for the big sites or even taking a freelance gig.
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I don't see anything wrong with Cathy's first post on this thread, she is entitled to her opinion and shouldn't be called a troll for that. Leo requesting deletions is wrong, this is an open forum, I don't agree with someone selling something being able to delete posts that offer an opinion that's valid.
I do: it's that little word "again" along with her use of italics as a means of shouting. Not to mention her impressive track-record of earlier slights against what appears to be her favorite scapegoat person (who happens to be someone who has contributed a lot for FREE, contrary to that allegation of "raking in business again"). Guys -- seriously!
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That was my experience as well. I lost money on the site itself and also lost potential income from other sites by wasting a LOT of time building and maintaining my own site, on social media, etc. In hindsight, that time would have been much more productively spent creating new images for the big sites or even taking a freelance gig.
I get the point -- though, at the same time, self-hosted or self-directed selling (of ANY style of items, including sth people put on eBay or Amzn marketplace) helps you building a customer list or some "goodwill" beyond your sales income. That's something eBay and Amazon intentionally take from you and rake in for themselves instead. All the while making you pay for their "services" on top. Google is similarly "good at this"... It's part of their -- greedy -- type of business model, but people seem to love being slaughtered for immediate gratification instead of taking a more long-term approach (same phenomenon in politics, that's why we're fair game for bureaucrats, globalists, industrialists, and banksters).
Given the (both monetary and satisfaction) value of this, your losses may be less than they appeared in the longer run.
That's not to say a self-hosted site that does not sell anything whatsoever is a viable option, but added to those rankings with "12.2" for Self-Hosted it's still a lot better than "only a loss of time and effort " or "nothing".
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This thread is about a simple and time efficient way to upload to and maintain a personal site. Purpose as well as screenshots available in original post.
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That was my experience as well. I lost money on the site itself and also lost potential income from other sites by wasting a LOT of time building and maintaining my own site, on social media, etc. In hindsight, that time would have been much more productively spent creating new images for the big sites or even taking a freelance gig.
I get the point -- though, at the same time, self-hosted or self-directed selling (of ANY style of items, including sth people put on eBay or Amzn marketplace) helps you building a customer list or some "goodwill" beyond your sales income. That's something eBay and Amazon intentionally take from you and rake in for themselves instead. All the while making you pay for their "services" on top. Google is similarly "good at this"... It's part of their -- greedy -- type of business model, but people seem to love being slaughtered for immediate gratification instead of taking a more long-term approach (same phenomenon in politics, that's why we're fair game for bureaucrats, globalists, industrialists, and banksters).
Given the (both monetary and satisfaction) value of this, your losses may be less than they appeared in the longer run.
That's not to say a self-hosted site that does not sell anything whatsoever is a viable option, but added to those rankings with "12.2" for Self-Hosted it's still a lot better than "only a loss of time and effort " or "nothing".
I have absolutely no problem with amazon and ebay taking their 15% of my sales (for non-royalty free photo items) =--- I make at 100x more for these non-image sales from these sites ( direct sales of my niche non-photo items -- maps & comics) -- I average about $10+/sale from these sites vs about $5 per sale from self hosted sales of the same items, but with at least 10x more sales from these sites rather than my site. do the math -- ebay & amazon would be a great source for royalty free images if they allowed such items (for a short period ebay did allow digital downloads & it was a great, if ephemeral, source of income)
at this point, my self-hosting pays for the hosting costs & a bit more, thru google ads, not image sales - but not a reliable source of net income
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That was my experience as well. I lost money on the site itself and also lost potential income from other sites by wasting a LOT of time building and maintaining my own site, on social media, etc. In hindsight, that time would have been much more productively spent creating new images for the big sites or even taking a freelance gig.
I get the point -- though, at the same time, self-hosted or self-directed selling (of ANY style of items, including sth people put on eBay or Amzn marketplace) helps you building a customer list or some "goodwill" beyond your sales income. That's something eBay and Amazon intentionally take from you and rake in for themselves instead. All the while making you pay for their "services" on top. Google is similarly "good at this"... It's part of their -- greedy -- type of business model, but people seem to love being slaughtered for immediate gratification instead of taking a more long-term approach (same phenomenon in politics, that's why we're fair game for bureaucrats, globalists, industrialists, and banksters).
Given the (both monetary and satisfaction) value of this, your losses may be less than they appeared in the longer run.
That's not to say a self-hosted site that does not sell anything whatsoever is a viable option, but added to those rankings with "12.2" for Self-Hosted it's still a lot better than "only a loss of time and effort " or "nothing".
I have absolutely no problem with amazon and ebay taking their 15% of my sales (for non-royalty free photo items) =--- I make at 100x more for these non-image sales from these sites ( direct sales of my niche non-photo items -- maps & comics) -- I average about $10+/sale from these sites vs about $5 per sale from self hosted sales of the same items, but with at least 10x more sales from these sites rather than my site. do the math -- ebay & amazon would be a great source for royalty free images if they allowed such items (for a short period ebay did allow digital downloads & it was a great, if ephemeral, source of income)
at this point, my self-hosting pays for the hosting costs & a bit more, thru google ads, not image sales - but not a reliable source of net income
good to hear it worked for you. Yes, if they did, indeed, still allow non-physical items, that would be a different story and I might be willing to accept some of their other shortcomings...
My point was the following though: on top of not allowing Downloadables and on top of limiting users by myriad other restrictions and "security" rules they work in a way that does not allow users (small businesses, artists, consultants, whoever these users may actually be) to earn their own CUSTOMER LIST in the course of their work. And THAT is an absolute red flag from any business' perspective where building a customer base is what it's all about -- or your business is "worthless" at the end of the day!
By keeping that (important) part to themselves (while still pocketing fees) they do, indeed, cause me to "have a problem" with them taking an, albeit relatively small, chunk out of my profit. That's all I'm saying. It's also an additional motivator for me to look for other ways of selling.
This obviously includes the entire SELLING DIRECT area which is the subject here.
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whatever you want to do will be very welcome.
the industry needs a good self publishing solution.
something specifically designed for stock artists.
You are reading my mind. I want it Leo, looks good, and I don't care about uploading to DP. Just need a good self publishing site, raster and vector. Also yes to selling video would be a good match for most of us.
Make the basic good working site first, add the tricks and fancy parts later.
me too -- I LOVE it, and the idea of having a way of handling video in the future makes it even better! The lack of video solutions has bugged me for some time now.
Thanks @Leo, it seems you're reading my mind, too :)
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That was my experience as well. I lost money on the site itself and also lost potential income from other sites by wasting a LOT of time building and maintaining my own site, on social media, etc. In hindsight, that time would have been much more productively spent creating new images for the big sites or even taking a freelance gig.
Same here. Takes too much time away from what I really enjoy doing.
@ shutterstok: I am still entitled to my opinion, whether it is taking a shot at someone or not. You just took a shot at me...maybe you should be deleted and banned? ;) Plenty of people here take shots at others. Some are just downright nasty about it too.
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When will this be released I want to start my own photo download store. I have a website for years, adding sales is no added expense.