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Microstock Photography Forum - General => Selling Stock Direct => Topic started by: dragonblade on May 15, 2017, 00:46
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I'm considering contacting some magazines and book publishers with an image of mine that has some scientific interest. Obviously, I would like to receive payment for the publication of this image. However, I do know there's always the chance that your image may end up getting published for free. For example, there is an Australian science magazine that accepts content without payment. And once I submitted an article and photo of mine to a newspaper and I was under the assumption that I would get paid (if the work got published.) I never got a reply from the paper but they did publish my work without payment.
As such, I'm a little reluctant about submitting my image upon my first / initial contact with the publication. So what would be the best approach here? Give a description of the photograph (and explain what makes it special) in the initial e-mail and state that I would be happy to negotiate on a price when I send the image? Or alternatively, send a low resolution image complete with watermark in the first e-mail, negotiate a price and then send the full res image later on? Or should I simply send the full res image straight away and say I'm happy to negotiate a price?
By the way, there was a very small magazine that I used to submit articles and photos to a number of years ago. They only paid for the articles (and a very small amount too.)
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I used to be a magazine editor. (Not science, I admit. B2B)
Do some market research. Does the magazine you intend to submit your pic to actually publish pix by themselves without articles to go with them?
If not, then don't bother.
Editors are usually interested in articles first, and pictures second.
They look for pix to illustrate articles. Of course, you might be lucky ... your picture might fit an article that the editor has commissioned.
But that's not very likely.
So try thinking about an article to go with your image. That way, the editor is likely to be much more interested. But be careful: increasingly magazines assume that by paying you they get copyright of the image.
NEVER assume that the publication is going to pay for unsolicited content. Definitely don't send a full resolution picture.
If your image is so extraordinary, why put it on a Rights Managed website like Alamy?
That way you can sell it again and again.
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Do some market research. Does the magazine you intend to submit your pic to actually publish pix by themselves without articles to go with them?
From what Ive observed, science magazines generally have articles accompanying the photographs.
Editors are usually interested in articles first, and pictures second.
Yea that was my assumption. In most cases with the science magazines Ive looked at, the photos merely illustrate the articles. In such cases, the images are indeed secondary. However, a number of times Ive also noticed instances where the photo is the main feature and the article is basically written about the photo.
They look for pix to illustrate articles. Of course, you might be lucky ... your picture might fit an article that the editor has commissioned.
Yea I had the plan to submit this image on it's own to a bunch of science magazines (minus an article) in the hope that it might be relevant to an article they are putting together in the near future. I know my chances are pretty slim.
Actually, I have written a very brief article about the science that goes on in my photograph but there's a reason why I won't submit it to the majority of science magazines. Because both the image (and the article) demonstrate an aspect of physics that is very basic science - more like stuff that school students would learn. Incidentally, the type of image that I have doesn't seem to be very common - I haven't seen too many other images that demonstrate the same principle in quite the same way (certainly none in SS, DT or the Science Photo Library stock agencies.) Though regardless of that, it is still very basic science.
Ive been reading through various articles in random science magazines and it seems pretty clear that they are not interested in basic or general science. They seem to prefer articles that focus on some new breakthrough or an exciting development in science or technology. So I was hoping that there could be a chance that my image (even though it demonstrates basic science) might somehow be related to the kinds of topics that tend to cover (again very slim chance of that happening, I admit.)
I think more realistically, it would be better to submit the image and article to science magazines that are targeted specifically towards kids and young people. The kinds of publications that have articles along the lines of 'how things work.' In other words - basic / general science. Though there doesn't seem to be many such magazines in circulation.
Alternatively, would textbooks be more interested in images without accompanying text?
But be careful: increasingly magazines assume that by paying you they get copyright of the image.
Oh yea I'm very wary of that. I would be specific in stating that this image would be for one time use or rights managed etc.
If your image is so extraordinary, why put it on a Rights Managed website like Alamy?
That way you can sell it again and again.
I thought I'd give the direct approach a go first. If I'm not successful, I'll put it on Alamy.
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To be honest the amount of time you've spent thinking about what to do with that image has probably negated your profit from it. You would have been better off putting it up as RM on alamy and if it doesn't sell after a year or two stick it in micro.
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So, no specialist agency was interested in taking this one image then?
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You are overthinking this.
I suspect you will waste a lot of time sending off emails and letters that editors will ignore.
Just put it on a stock site.
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To be honest the amount of time you've spent thinking about what to do with that image has probably negated your profit from it.
My plan has remained unchanged. 1st - try direct sell, if that doesn't work - try Alamy, if Alamy doesn't do any good, try micro.
So, no specialist agency was interested in taking this one image then?
I'm not sure what you mean by that. I haven't submitted this image to any agencies.
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This isn't about your surface tension image that we had the whole big long thread about?
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This isn't about your surface tension image that we had the whole big long thread about?
Yea that's the one. I started this thread to get a few tips on how to sell direct.
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From what Ive observed, science magazines generally have articles accompanying the photographs.
Just a clarification, two types of Science magazines:
- Scientific Divulgation magazine
- Scientific journals
Dont waste your time with second one... some of them will maybe incluede some pretty pic in cover, but never in the content...
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Alamy licenses a lot of images for textbooks. If it shows a basic science principle that might be just the place for it. A lot less work for you and more chance of it selling multiple times.
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Why would you want to sell direct when you can sell rights managed
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I'm considering contacting some magazines and book publishers with an image of mine that has some scientific interest. Obviously, I would like to receive payment for the publication of this image. However, I do know there's always the chance that your image may end up getting published for free. For example, there is an Australian science magazine that accepts content without payment. And once I submitted an article and photo of mine to a newspaper and I was under the assumption that I would get paid (if the work got published.) I never got a reply from the paper but they did publish my work without payment.
As such, I'm a little reluctant about submitting my image upon my first / initial contact with the publication. So what would be the best approach here? Give a description of the photograph (and explain what makes it special) in the initial e-mail and state that I would be happy to negotiate on a price when I send the image? Or alternatively, send a low resolution image complete with watermark in the first e-mail, negotiate a price and then send the full res image later on? Or should I simply send the full res image straight away and say I'm happy to negotiate a price?
By the way, there was a very small magazine that I used to submit articles and photos to a number of years ago. They only paid for the articles (and a very small amount too.)
I wouldn't expect much compensation especially from newspapers with a lot of content submissions from readers/locals, if they've got a "letters to the editor" don't expect anything. I would definitely get an article and supporting photographs together, and then contact the editor or publisher with your idea and explain what you want to be compensated. If you just send it to them they'll just publish it with COURTOUSY/YOUR NAME.
I still send my photos to the local paper and get a few in per year. I used to work there though, so that might help.
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Why would you want to sell direct when you can sell rights managed
*If* you could find a buyer, you could sell RM directly and keep 100%.
I'd think, though not from direct experience, that the accompanying article is the way to go.
Added: I once (and only once) had a legit sale - non exclusive one-use RM - of a file which I had on Flickr to a magazine which did happen to be running an article about a particular event. It was already using two of my pics from Alamy, but this one wasn't on Alamy as it was a night-time historical re-enactment and the people were blurry, so Alamy probably wouldn't have accepted it. They paid me the same amount as they paid Alamy, but I got 100% of that one compared with 50% of the other two. Also that pic was credited to me (not that it has done me any good) whereas the other two were credited Alamy only.
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I got a recent offer from an UK based magazine.
"Our standard rate of pay for usage is £120 per double page spread, £60 for full page, £30 for half page, etc. Money is paid via bank transfer. Once the magazine goes to press, someone will contact you within 30 days for your payment details, etc. We'll also send you out a copy of the magazine once it's printed."
Maybe it helps.
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1) This is the second thread Dragonblade has started on the subject
2) The advice on both threads is similar: selling specialist images directly is difficult, and it's probably better to put the image on a stock site.
3) Dragonblade spends a lot of time and effort telling people why their advice is wrong.
4) Dragonblade says his/her plan has not changed, but shows no sign of actually putting that plan into action.
Let me be uncharitable for a moment. My conclusions are:
1) Dragonblade likes the attention
2) He/she is a timewaster.
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I think you're flogging a dead horse slightly. I mean, it's a picture of a straw in a glass of water if I'm not mistaken? I'm sure it's wonderful, but I'm also pretty sure it's not going to set the stock photography world alight, or cause mass hysteria in the scientific community.
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Just a clarification, two types of Science magazines:
- Scientific Divulgation magazine
- Scientific journals
Dont waste your time with second one...
Agreed. Yea, I’m only submitting to the first kind – the science magazines that are intended for enthusiasts.
A lot of great advice in this thread, thankyou.
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you could find a buyer, you could sell RM directly and keep 100%.
Exactly. If I'm successful, I'd get the whole pie rather than a slice of it.
I got a recent offer from an UK based magazine.
Congrats on the offer. Those rates sound quite reasonable. Out of curiosity, did you also write and submit an article to accompany the image?
A lot of great advice in this thread, thankyou.
I mean, it's a picture of a straw in a glass of water if I'm not mistaken?
Wrong. It’s not a photo of a straw in a glass of water. And by the way, a picture of a straw in a glass of water won’t demonstrate the elasticity / flexibility that surface tension has. Though my photo certainly does.
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The only time waster who likes attention is you. You're clearly a troll. I started this thread specifically to get some tips from people on how to submit images directly to publications. You're only purpose is to derail this thread and use it to announce your own personal agenda.
1) Look at my first two responses to you.
2) Why did you start a second thread on the same subject?
3) And what agenda is that?
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My plan has commenced operation. There have been a few publications that Ive made contact with in regards to my image.
That's good to know. Do let us know what response you get.
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Namussi, I'm sorry. Without even checking your name, I didn't even realise that you were the same person who made the first reply and the last reply. I found your initial reply very helpful. And your insight is definitely valuable with your past experience as a magazine editor. I just assumed that your second reply was from a different individual. Sorry, I should have checked the name. Ive re-edited my post.
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holy crap?! Is this the same topic from like ... a few months ago with the water and surface tension? I'm honestly going to put some water on a * spoon tomorrow, and shoot it. I didn't realize that those shots were worth $100.
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on the same note. I'm about to take a piss, and I notice that the bowl has a pool of water in it. While my urine falls into there it breaks the hydrogen bond and creates somewhat of a splitter and a splash. I should video that in slow motion.
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Been shooting Saturn all week. I've got about ... 300 terrible shots of that ... I should call up National Geographic.
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Been shooting Saturn all week. I've got about ... 300 terrible shots of that ... I should call up National Geographic.
Better than shooting Uranus.
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I don't know about one specific image, but if one decides to choose the route of scientific illustrations, I would not bother with journals but contact universities and even research labs for work. Some labs do not mind having artwork done for them and pay a reasonable price, particularly those that publish in prestigious magazines or make keynote presentations. I would say that some scientific knowledge of the subject would be very welcome. Disclaimer - I've never done that myself, but I know people who did, typically scientists themselves with some inclination to artistic expression :).
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I would not bother with journals but contact universities and even research labs for work. Some labs do not mind having artwork done for them and pay a reasonable price, particularly those that publish in prestigious magazines or make keynote presentations.
Very interesting suggestion. I'll try contacting some University science departments and research labs. Previously, I wasn't aware of the term 'keynote presentations' - looks kind of like a powerpoint presentation to me. Just curious about the kind of license that would be appropriate for such presentations.
The other thing is I wonder if surface tension would be covered in that level of science (University level etc.) I do get the impression that it's rather basic science
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Very interesting suggestion. I'll try contacting some University science departments and research labs. Previously, I wasn't aware of the term 'keynote presentations' - looks kind of like a powerpoint presentation to me. Just curious about the kind of license that would be appropriate for such presentations.
Keynote presentation is a powerpoint presentation made at a start of a conference with the purpose to set its central theme. It is possible that the presenter will want an exclusive use with the possibility to transfer copyrights to a journal where a scientific review on the subject will be published. However, I can envision a request for a cheaper alternative. Like I said, I've never done it myself, so my knowledge is limited, but I know people who sell such services. For whatever reason they are a bit secretive about that aspect of their income.
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Wow. I'm assuming you've made some groundbreaking photograph that's going to make you rich and publishers should consider themselves lucky to get the once-in-a-lifetime opportunity of publishing your very unique image.
....Otherwise I don't understand why you're spending your time on two different threads discussing your detailed plans to distribute it.
You're overthinking this. Too much hassle for just one picture. You should get rid of the idea that your picture is unique. It probably isn't and if it was, you should already have done something with it after two months.
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It is possible that the presenter will want an exclusive use with the possibility to transfer copyrights to a journal where a scientific review on the subject will be published.
Yea I certainly wouldn't want to hand over exclusive rights. I'm hoping there are some other options with regards to presentations.
..and publishers should consider themselves lucky to get the once-in-a-lifetime opportunity of publishing your very unique image.
I wouldn't say this image is unique. And I admit that earlier, I was wrong for calling it rare. Though on the other hand, it's not overly common.
you should already have done something with it
Ive been submitting the image to various publications along with a proposed article. The last e-mail was sent several minutes ago to an Australian magazine.
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One of the publications that I submitted to was not a science magazine as such. They cover all sorts of themes and topics - mostly nature related but also cultural as well. They informed me that they don't have any immediate use for my image though they did state that if they ever need to demonstrate this aspect of physics, they will be in touch with me. I'm also going to contact some publishers of science / physics textbooks with the aim of getting a rights managed deal.
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Any updates?
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Any updates?
Ive had one magazine editor tell me in his own words: "It's a good photo" but they're not interested. And another editor in another magazine who said they only accept free content (no payment.)
There's also my previous update.
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Ive contacted a university research department and they got back to me this morning. The associate professor from the department said that he's writing a book and working with a publisher and he might be able to use my image in about a month's time (he's still deciding whether to go with an illustrated version of the book or a text-only version.)
When I initially contacted the department at the university, I was open to the idea of them using my image in electronic presentations in seminars and lectures etc. In that kind of scenario, it would be the department who would be paying me for the usage of the image. I mentioned to them that I would be happy to negotiate the amount with them. I also mentioned that I was open to discussing other potential uses of the image as well.
With the publishing of this book, the publisher is not sourcing the image from a stock agency or from me so I doubt I'll see money from them. Ive heard that with a number of science publications, the author simply supplies the images. Looks like that's the scenario here.
At this stage, I don't even know if I'm going have any direct contact with the publisher. I'm assuming that all correspondence will be done through the professor. If any money comes into my hands, it will probably be from the university department so I wouldn't expect much in the way of $$. In any case, it would be good to find out how long my photo is going to be published in the book (if it is included.) That will determine when I can upload the photo to Alamy as Rights Managed if I choose to go that route one day. Though I guess I could upload it as RF in the meantime?
With Alamy, I wonder if you can have RM licenses that are only available to certain geographical regions. That would be one way that I could still license the image as RM to other clients if my photo is used in the book and it's restricted to a certain part of the world (unless the book is published world wide.)
This is assuming that I would retain my rights to the image (which I will definitely try to do.)
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You can still sell the file RM on Alamy. They very seldom get requests for RM exclusivity and if you do, you tell them the use and it may or may not conflict with that request.
Until the new upload manager at the beginning of this year, you could have geographical restrictions, but apparently having done this for years, they have stopped, as "buyers found it too confusing" - young people, eh? ;D
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Sue, that's great to hear. I assume I'd inform Alamy rather than the client about the specific uses of the image? Just like the micro sites, I guess contributors don't have direct contact with the clients.
Some buyers were finding geographical restrictions too confusing? My gosh, the world is a sad place.
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Sue, that's great to hear. I assume I'd inform Alamy rather than the client about the specific uses of the image? Just like the micro sites, I guess contributors don't have direct contact with the clients.
Some buyers were finding geographical restrictions too confusing? My gosh, the world is a sad place.
Yes, Alamy would contact you. Have to say I've only been contacted a couple of times, and it never led to anything, and that's a regular story. Still, sometimes it works.
Conversely, although you can opt out of novel use (if it's still around[?], the UKNS and/or distribution, there's no way of shielding your most unique image from other buyers with a heavy discount. You can opt out of Personal Use too, but then the buyer could buy for presentation use.
Just so that you are fully aware.
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Ive contacted a university research department and they got back to me this morning. The associate professor from the department said that he's writing a book and working with a publisher and he might be able to use my image in about a month's time (he's still deciding whether to go with an illustrated version of the book or a text-only version.)
Why is it that I just don't find this credible?
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An image like that dont really need to be RM, there are thousands of them, tension water, oil, air etc. I recon you get around $10 for an inside shot in a scientific publication no more.
I once shot a bomb detonation in the pacific as a military experiment! it was huge and awsome. This was in the good old film days and I got 2 grand for it. Today I would probably get around $100 no more.
I suggest you put it up as micro!
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An image like that dont really need to be RM, there are thousands of them, tension water, oil, air etc.
There would indeed be thousands of photos demonstrating surface tension. Though I haven't found all that many like mine, and certainly none in any of the stock agencies Ive looked through.
I once shot a bomb detonation in the pacific as a military experiment! it was huge and awsome. This was in the good old film days
That would have been an awesome experience. Must have been a big bomb...hope it wasn't anything like Bikini Atoll?
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With the publishing of this book, the publisher is not sourcing the image from a stock agency or from me so I doubt I'll see money from them. Ive heard that with a number of science publications, the author simply supplies the images. Looks like that's the scenario here.
Sounds right to me. The author provides artwork, and he's responsible for its accuracy. The copyright is then transferred to the publisher. Make sure the terms of the transfer do not interfere with your decision to sell the image commercially elsewhere or seek proper compensation for an exclusive sale. Professors may not be fully aware of legalities and their implications.
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Sounds right to me. The author provides artwork, and he's responsible for its accuracy. The copyright is then transferred to the publisher. Make sure the terms of the transfer do not interfere with your decision to sell the image commercially elsewhere or seek proper compensation. Professors may not be fully aware of legalities and their implications.
Thanks for clarifying that. I'll definitely tell the professor to let the editor know that I want to retain my full rights to the image.
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Sounds right to me. The author provides artwork, and he's responsible for its accuracy. The copyright is then transferred to the publisher. Make sure the terms of the transfer do not interfere with your decision to sell the image commercially elsewhere or seek proper compensation. Professors may not be fully aware of legalities and their implications.
Thanks for clarifying that. I'll definitely mention to the professor that I want to retain my full rights to the image and to let the publisher know that.
Someone buying usage rights from you can't impose restrictions on you that you haven't agreed to. So this client would not be able to supply the image to a third party with any sort of added restriction on your right to do whatever you like with it. If he gave any assurances then that would be his problem, not yours.
To the best of my knowledge, the originator of a book provides the text and images to the publisher who then handles the layout which is passed on to the printer for platemaking. The copyright of a book is not transferred to the publisher, it rests with the author of the work (go and look in the front of pretty much any book and you will see the copyright notice). Just as the copyright of a photo doesn't transfer to the user who buys a licences to use the work.
Of course, if you are not going to specify your rights in a written contract signed by the user then anything could happen.
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Of course, if you are not going to specify your rights in a written contract signed by the user then anything could happen.
Okay, you've convinced me to write up a contract. Definitely better than the more casual approach.
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The copyright of a book is not transferred to the publisher, it rests with the author of the work (go and look in the front of pretty much any book and you will see the copyright notice). Just as the copyright of a photo doesn't transfer to the user who buys a licences to use the work.
It can be. Depends on how the copyright transfer agreement is written and the policies of a specific publisher. The copyright may be assigned by the author to another party. Noone can take away authorship of an illustration of course, but a book author can sign the agreement without thinking thus implying that rights for artwork belong to him. It's common practice, because scientists often make their own artwork (or their students do, under the table).
BTW, copyright notices are for those poor souls who decide to copy a book without publisher's permission, it's not not a vanity item for authors. The notice sits right next to the publisher's name. If written out explicitly, it also states that the permission to reproduce has to obtained from the publisher.
dragonblade, here's something to help
https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/symbiartic/so-you-want-to-hire-a-science-illustrator/
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Upload it to a bunch of agencies and watch the money roll in. Quite slowly, probably.
I think you've invested a lot more time in this for any returns you might make over and above what you'd get selling it as stock.
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Typically when you write for academia you transfer copyright to the publisher. The lead author would do that for all other authors and including any images or illustrations. If that occurred then in the future you would need to get permission from the publisher to use your own image!
If your goal is just exposure then this is a great way to go - just make sure they give you credit, although you might just be in a list of photographers at the beginning. If you were intending to make some money then probably not, unless the professor agrees to pay you up front.
Here is an example. For my real job I have to send back final revisions to a book chapter in another week or so. The chapter will have two illustrations, both of which I made in draft form from information on the web. I will make the final versions myself for free, one from scratch - will just need to make a graph with different date ranges from the one I copied - and the other will be a modification of a map made by another academic with their permission. Since I work for the U.S. Government in real life (and am an adjunct Professor at a university) anything I do for the job (not photography!) cannot be copyrighted. Therefore, I can't even transfer copyright to the publisher and the final version will be in the public domain. You probably don't want that to happen to one of your images, or have the copyright assigned to someone else.
If you want to maintain control you need to make up a contract specifying exactly what the image can and cannot be used for and what kind of compensation you will receive. Good luck!
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If you want to maintain control you need to make up a contract specifying exactly what the image can and cannot be used for and what kind of compensation you will receive. Good luck!
Definitely. Within the contract, I guess I could also include the title of the book, the intended geographical region for distribution and the length of time that the book will be published for?
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I think you've invested a lot more time in this for any returns you might make over and above what you'd get selling it as stock.
I admit I'm getting tired of contacting publishers / university departments etc. Putting the photo up on a stock site's going to be so much easier.
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I think you've invested a lot more time in this for any returns you might make over and above what you'd get selling it as stock.
I admit I'm getting tired of contacting publishers / university departments etc. Putting the photo up on a stock site's going to be so much easier.
On the other hand look on it as a learning experience and maybe some good contacts made should they ever need a series of pics etc. I must admit I'm pretty crap at marketing/networking which is one of the reasons stock suits me ;-)
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On the other hand look on it as a learning experience and maybe some good contacts made should they ever need a series of pics etc. I must admit I'm pretty crap at marketing/networking which is one of the reasons stock suits me ;-)
Good points though I'm probably not the best person at marketing! However, there was another professor from another university who liked my image and said he didn't have any immediate use for the photo but would contact me in the future if he does. So yea it was worth getting it out there.
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I think you've invested a lot more time in this for any returns you might make over and above what you'd get selling it as stock.
I admit I'm getting tired of contacting publishers / university departments etc. Putting the photo up on a stock site's going to be so much easier.
Err. I think a few of us suggested that earlier. A lot earlier. :-\
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Err. I think a few of us suggested that earlier. A lot earlier. :-\
Nothing wrong with sticking to the plan!
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Err. I think a few of us suggested that earlier. A lot earlier. :-\
Nothing wrong with sticking to the plan!
A lot of us thought your plan wouldn't work. It hasn't.
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A lot of us thought your plan wouldn't work. It hasn't.
At this stage, it's likely that my photograph will be published in a book. Therefore, the plan has worked.
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A lot of us thought your plan wouldn't work. It hasn't.
At this stage, it's likely that my photograph will be published in a book. Therefore, the plan has worked.
My apologies.
Do we know the title of the book yet? I'd love to see this picture.
Also, have you totalled up the hours you spent on this project? What is the revenue/day for it?
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Getting it published is great, but are you getting any money for it? If so, when you divide up the hours spent versus how much you could have got for the same image by submitting to an agency - maybe nothing or possibly a lot - then it might not be worth the effort economically. If your main goal was just getting it published then it seems you were successful - congratulations! - but if it was to get the best price then maybe not. At least you got a lot of interesting experience either way.
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Do we know the title of the book yet? I'd love to see this picture.
So far, all I know is that it's going to be a book on the physics of water.
Also, have you totalled up the hours you spent on this project? What is the revenue/day for it?
Considering that it's going to be a professor from a university department who'll be writing the book, I'll accept anything that comes my way.
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So the book hasn't been written yet?
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So the book hasn't been written yet?
It's being written at the moment. Professor said he'll contact me again in a month's time.
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If your main goal was just getting it published then it seems you were successful - congratulations!
Thanks! It will be good seeing the photo being used in an educational context. And that's the sort of thing I had in mind after I first took it.
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So the book hasn't been written yet?
It's being written at the moment. Professor said he'll contact me again in a month's time.
Any updates? :-)
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Any updates? :-)
Not yet.
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Any updates? :-)
Not yet.
Any updates? I can't wait to see the pic.
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The professor never got back to me. Maybe it fell through. I sent him another e-mail but he never replied. However, recently, I submitted the photo to an art exhibition where it received some positive praise. Actually, another photographer from the same exhibition wants to do a swap with me. He wants to display my surface tension photo at his place and in return, I can choose one of his photos. First time Ive done such an exchange.
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That must be frustrating. I hope the image swap works out well.