Author Topic: New project, need feedback or ideas please (Read 9763 times)

Christos Georghiou · « **on:** September 21, 2012, 02:05 »

Hi, Microstockgroup people, the reason I am posting is to get some feedback on a project.

There has been some talk on the forum over the years about contributors finding a way to sell directly while overcoming the drawbacks of each of having a limited number of images.

Well, Leo Blanchette, the illustrator famous for those orange men business mascots, has come up with a great idea for interlinking portfolio sites and is enough of a programming whizz to pull it off.

He kindly set me up with a site so he could test out some of the functionality. It is basically a one click upload site, fantastically easy to use.

My site is here:

http://www.atstockillustration.com/

and Leo's is here:

http://www.clipartillustration.com/

I have been getting decent sales even with just the two sites on the network and zero promotion by me, and kept 100% of the money paid by the buyer.
Apparently that is because of some great SEO stuff Leo has been working into the way the site works. I think the real strength of the idea is that it can work as a network of contributors all bringing in traffic.

The idea is to eventually make it possible to search across a network of sites from any one contributors site. Each contributor would have control over their own site, pricing and so on and get paid directly by the buyer.

If you don't want to sell direct it can also be used as a "referral engine" to your other agents like IS, so exclusives may get something out of it to.

So here's the problem, Leo has already spent a lot of time working on this, and will have to spend a lot more to get the project complete. I have been racking my brain trying to work out how he could finance the model. I have got permission from him to post here to ask if anyone has any ideas about how this could raise revenue, I think a lot of us would like to be able to be part of something like this, but how would you be prepared to pay for it? Monthly subscription? One off payment for the site? Should he maybe Kickstarter it? Any ideas or feedback would be very much appreciated.

leaf · « **Reply #1 on:** September 21, 2012, 03:09 »

How are the sites linked together? Is it just the drop down link at the top so you essentially refer eachother to eachother's sites? Or is there any cross searching working or other cross promotion?

I think the idea is great. For the solution to be useful to the buyers it would make a lot of sense to be able to search everyone's photos on the network at once. It would be a pain to have to create accounts or log into a new site every time you find a new image though (if it's from a different user).

Anyhow, if you can get the kinks worked out - I think it would be fair to charge once for the software solution and then charge another amount to be hooked up to the network.

Would this solution only work with your wordpress (it is wordpress isn't it?) mod or would it work with a ktools install? There are quite a few people with ktools already so if you could make it work with that it would be a big bonus and your user base would grow quite a bit.

Christos Georghiou · « **Reply #2 on:** September 21, 2012, 03:35 »

As far as I can work out it will involve having new Wordpress site rather than being integrated into any existing install. I am not sure how familiar he is with ktools, but I have sent him the link to this thread. He is on here from time to time, so I guess he will be on to discuss the ins and outs. He is in the US and I am in the UK so I think he is probably asleep right now!

The main idea is definitely to have a cross search working, the idea about charging for the site, and then maybe a subscription charge for being on the network was one I have run by, Leo. The issue is finding funding so the development can continue prior to launch.

Do you think that people would be prepared to pay into a Kickstarter project to get this off the ground? I know I would, but I have had contact with Leo for some years and know how passionate he is about it and that he has the skills to make it work.

sharpshot · « **Reply #3 on:** September 21, 2012, 03:41 »

If there's enough sales, I don't mind paying for the software and having a monthly or annual charge for the ongoing work. I've been put off starting my own site and have been waiting for a better option.

Kickstarter might be a good idea but wont there be ongoing costs as well?

Christos Georghiou · « **Reply #4 on:** September 21, 2012, 03:45 »

Quote from: Christos Georghiou on September 21, 2012, 03:35

As far as I can work out it will involve having new Wordpress site rather than being integrated into any existing install. I am not sure how familiar he is with ktools, but I have sent him the link to this thread. He is on here from time to time, so I guess he will be on to discuss the ins and outs. He is in the US and I am in the UK so I think he is probably asleep right now!

The main idea is definitely to have a cross search working, the idea about charging for the site, and then maybe a subscription charge for being on the network was one I have run by, Leo. The issue is finding funding so the development can continue prior to launch.

Do you think that people would be prepared to pay into a Kickstarter project to get this off the ground? I know I would, but I have had contact with Leo for some years and know how passionate he is about it and that he has the skills to make it work.

ETA with regards to my site, just to clarify, I didn't have the site before. It was all created via Leo's template. I just had to fill in the blanks and upload my portfolio, all the image pages were automatically created and data extracted from the images. There is also a section on the dashboard for creating discounted collections just by identifying which images you want in them and uploading a cover image. Like these:
http://www.atstockillustration.com/collections/

Christos Georghiou · « **Reply #5 on:** September 21, 2012, 03:49 »

Quote from: sharpshot on September 21, 2012, 03:41

If there's enough sales, I don't mind paying for the software and having a monthly or annual charge for the ongoing work. I've been put off starting my own site and have been waiting for a better option.

Kickstarter might be a good idea but wont there be ongoing costs as well?

There will be, but with Kickstarter you offer incentives to people that support the development. So if you donate a certain amount you get just the initial site, if you donate more you get a site plus a year on the network maybe?
Then people who buy in after the project is finished would have to pay more than those who paid in to get it completed.

Reef · « **Reply #6 on:** September 21, 2012, 03:55 »

Its a good idea though Envato already does something similar. And something similar would require serious coding. There are some amazing Wordpress and CMS templates being developed these days so I would imagine its not impossible to produce. Not easy either!

sharpshot · « **Reply #7 on:** September 21, 2012, 03:58 »

One problem would be that if people pay upfront but have appalling images, they will have to be included in the collection. If I was starting this, I would want to select good quality portfolios to start with and to be able to have some way to reject those that upload junk and inappropriate images.

Christos Georghiou · « **Reply #8 on:** September 21, 2012, 04:10 »

Quote from: sharpshot on September 21, 2012, 03:58

One problem would be that if people pay upfront but have appalling images, they will have to be included in the collection. If I was starting this, I would want to select good quality portfolios to start with and to be able to have some way to reject those that upload junk and inappropriate images.

I don't think that it would be like a traditional agency where the collection is curated. I think that the buyer will have the option of searching the artist/ photographers site they are on or be able to "search the network" if they can't find what they are looking for. Maybe buyers will use it to find a photographer they like and then search within the photographer's own site?

Something that concerns me is if someone wants a site on the network and they are violating copyrights or something like that. I guess that people would have to be able to DMCA to get sellers removed from the network?
I am also thinking that having to pay for a site and use of the network will discourage most people with illegal or unsalable images, because they would not be able to get a return (if their work is no good) or get booted from the network and lose money (if they are stealing images)

I know Leo is open to suggestions at this stage so I am sure he will take your comments on board.

Christos Georghiou · « **Reply #9 on:** September 21, 2012, 05:23 »

Quote from: leaf on September 21, 2012, 03:09

......For the solution to be useful to the buyers it would make a lot of sense to be able to search everyone's photos on the network at once. It would be a pain to have to create accounts or log into a new site every time you find a new image though (if it's from a different user).......

Sorry I didn't respond to this bit. I think that they log in with their Gravatar or Wordpress ID and then the payment is handled through Paypal. I don't think they would have to log into each site individually(?), they would just be paying into the Paypal account of the photographer they buy from.
How this would work if they buy several images from different photographers in the same transaction I don't know.

Leo Blanchette · « **Reply #10 on:** September 22, 2012, 03:02 »

Quote from: sharpshot on September 21, 2012, 03:41

If there's enough sales, I don't mind paying for the software and having a monthly or annual charge for the ongoing work. I've been put off starting my own site and have been waiting for a better option.

Kickstarter might be a good idea but wont there be ongoing costs as well?

Sales are wonderful on my site. Matches the best other sites I upload too! The theme is SEO'd all the way through.

Leo Blanchette · « **Reply #11 on:** September 22, 2012, 03:07 »

Quote from: Reef on September 21, 2012, 03:55

Its a good idea though Envato already does something similar. And something similar would require serious coding. There are some amazing Wordpress and CMS templates being developed these days so I would imagine its not impossible to produce. Not easy either!

Reasons why wordpress is chosen:

1. Flexibility.
2. Extensibility.
3. Useability

.

The microstock interface installs as a theme, and carries out all of the functions. Image uploading, resizing, watermarking, managing. It handles paypal, user accounts, and the list goes on.

Its a "set it and forget it" situation with images. Once they upload, the convert into product pages instantly, extracting IPTC data.

...And thats just what it does now. I've already experimented with scripts to generate posts that link to your agency portfolios to get referals...

The "shared results" will show primarily your site's content, and a number of images (which you determine) fetched from your friend's sites. In fact, all search results are really just XML docs which are available to any network sites which may request them. The "drop down" link is just what I have now for customers to navigate the site network.

In a nutshell, it will be a sort of "grand network" which operates as one big site, with as much personal independence as possible.

Sean Locke Photography · « **Reply #12 on:** September 22, 2012, 07:27 »

Nice work Leo.

sgoodwin4813 · « **Reply #13 on:** September 22, 2012, 07:42 »

This is exactly what is needed - like Amazon but for images.

velocicarpo · « **Reply #14 on:** September 22, 2012, 09:31 »

Why not start a foundation which accepts donations. I really love the idea and would be willing to pay a amount of money if it is a´guaranteed that it is ongoing and under developement. (only condition: do not exclusively use paypal for accepting payments)

cthoman · « **Reply #15 on:** September 22, 2012, 10:02 »

Sounds interesting. Sign me up.

I guess I forgot to mention that an initial signup fee or monthly subscription fee works for me as well.

Babbalouie · « **Reply #16 on:** September 22, 2012, 10:15 »

Sounds fantastic to me if I understand the premise. We could join for a fee and have a complete site with the ability to sale our own images with links or connections to other members sites. Is this somewhat close to the idea?

Anyka · « **Reply #17 on:** September 22, 2012, 11:37 »

+1 interested here. Never sold through my own site, so this might be something for me.

Morphart · « **Reply #18 on:** September 22, 2012, 11:53 »

+1
Interested too! Got programming and web design knowledge if it can help!

click_click · « **Reply #19 on:** September 22, 2012, 12:33 »

+1 I think the theme looks great.

I'd be willing to pay a (reasonable) one time fee.

One thing that I'm really concerned about is the security of the high-res files. Are those located outside the public_html folder? And also the security of the rest of the site would be interesting to know.

cascoly · « **Reply #20 on:** September 22, 2012, 13:00 »

i'm interested - i currently have a smugmug site, but have been considering alternatives after their recent large price increase

re kickstarter - i dont think this project would qualify under kickstarter rules, since it's commercial and ongoing, but still worth checking out.

Equus · « **Reply #21 on:** September 22, 2012, 14:24 »

I like the sound of this and would definitely be interested. One problem I see though, and it also applies to Picturengine, is licensing. Are people really going to buy half a dozen images from different producers if they all have different licenses? Especially if they are paying microstock prices. It seems to me that people joining such a scheme would need to agree to all use the same licence.
If that can be sorted, I would want to join and would be willing to pay, monthly subscription would be most convenient.

Amanda_K · « **Reply #22 on:** September 22, 2012, 14:52 »

I'd be really interested in in seeing where this goes and what you come up with fee wise. I think a one time set up fee would be good to get the theme installed, how are you handling hosting? Would we be able to self host and register our own domain?

Leo Blanchette · « **Reply #23 on:** September 22, 2012, 15:29 »

Quote from: Babbalouie on September 22, 2012, 10:15

Sounds fantastic to me if I understand the premise. We could join for a fee and have a complete site with the ability to sale our own images with links or connections to other members sites. Is this somewhat close to the idea?

Yes, that is correct. One thing that is up in the air - if all sites are connected I may create a central cart database, so if a customer browses multiple sites and carts items all across the network, when the finally check out they do so at a central site which then accepts payment and keeps a small service fee, then delivers all of their purchases. But still working that out. I always opt for simplicity.

Leo Blanchette · « **Reply #24 on:** September 22, 2012, 15:32 »

Quote from: Morphart on September 22, 2012, 11:53

+1
Interested too! Got programming and web design knowledge if it can help!

Thanks! I might need help! Was thinking of taking an open source route with technical hub like a forum.

Leo Blanchette · « **Reply #25 on:** September 22, 2012, 15:34 »

Quote from: click_click on September 22, 2012, 12:33

+1 I think the theme looks great.

I'd be willing to pay a (reasonable) one time fee.

One thing that I'm really concerned about is the security of the high-res files. Are those located outside the public_html folder? And also the security of the rest of the site would be interesting to know.

When I do the re-build (soon) I'm going to be rearranging some things. Right now the images are protected by htaccess. You can't get them

. Overall security is good, and I haven't had an issue in these two years.

Leo Blanchette · « **Reply #26 on:** September 22, 2012, 15:36 »

Quote from: Equus on September 22, 2012, 14:24

I like the sound of this and would definitely be interested. One problem I see though, and it also applies to Picturengine, is licensing. Are people really going to buy half a dozen images from different producers if they all have different licenses? Especially if they are paying microstock prices. It seems to me that people joining such a scheme would need to agree to all use the same licence.
If that can be sorted, I would want to join and would be willing to pay, monthly subscription would be most convenient.

I'm open to suggestions.

Leo Blanchette · « **Reply #27 on:** September 22, 2012, 15:38 »

Quote from: 9lives on September 22, 2012, 14:52

I'd be really interested in in seeing where this goes and what you come up with fee wise. I think a one time set up fee would be good to get the theme installed, how are you handling hosting? Would we be able to self host and register our own domain?

If people are moderately good on the web and or use wordpress, this installs like any other wordpress theme. Hosting - we'd have to explore that. For those with larger portfolios, a good host would pay for itself. I could also find other alternatives and host on my server otherwise, for a fee.

Hope this answers everyones questions up till now.

Leo

leaf · « **Reply #28 on:** September 22, 2012, 16:01 »

paypal adaptive payments can split a buyer's payment between multiple accounts
https://www.x.com/developers/paypal/products/adaptive-payments

Buyer pays one amount -> funds end up in two photographers paypal accounts.

lisafx · « **Reply #29 on:** September 22, 2012, 17:57 »

This really sounds good. Exactly what the industry needs IMO. I would be willing to pay an up front fee and a subscription fee, although I would prefer annually to monthly.

I already have my own ktools site, but would be willing to consider uploading to wordpress if there was a likelihood I would make enough sales to be worth the additional effort.

Congrats on being the one to finally implement what a lot of us have had on our wish lists for a few years

Pixart · « **Reply #30 on:** September 22, 2012, 19:15 »

Leo, is the micro site template for sale? I've been afraid that K-tools might be over my head but I'm a bit more experienced with a Wordpress site. If yes, can I put a password protected area for clients.

And if the template is ready, it might be a good option for one level of a kickstarter offering.

Leo Blanchette · « **Reply #31 on:** September 22, 2012, 21:00 »

Quote from: Pixart on September 22, 2012, 19:15

Leo, is the micro site template for sale? I've been afraid that K-tools might be over my head but I'm a bit more experienced with a Wordpress site. If yes, can I put a password protected area for clients.

And if the template is ready, it might be a good option for one level of a kickstarter offering.

When clients sign up, they set up name/pass like any wordpress site. I'm going to do some work however to let wordpress remain invisible to the user (just to be professional).

I'm very happy to see an overall positive response. I'm going to go through and clean up code, check some security, and do some beautification with the help of Christos. Then we can get a prototype (alpha?) out there, with a nice network.

A little bit on the network: You will be able to add your "friends" (fellow microstockers) as inclusion to your network and search results. Everyone has different friends of course, so the network will be quite a phenomenon, as users will be able to migrate like bees around everyone's sites. You simply add their website name, and everything happens on its own.

I'm quite excited to see people will be into it. From here on I'll start tying up loose ends and get a nice package available soon.

cr8tivguy · « **Reply #32 on:** October 19, 2012, 18:42 »

I started a thread similar here:
http://www.microstockgroup.com/selling-direct/creating-one-agency-to-represent-us-all/

I'd love more input from readers here to join in and try to put our heads together, by creating a collective of Artist stock agency. Sounds like the creator of this thread has the right idea. I'm all for it!

The biggest thing once it's up and running is to recruit each and every photographer or Artist to leave their Agencies and pull their images from them. This way a complete REVOLT is guaranteed and the Agencies lose, and we WIN!

We MUST ALL STAND TOGETHER AS ONE!!!
Leave our Agencies and Sell DIRECT to our customers!
This CAN be done!!!

Some Ideas for OUR Agency to Work would be:
Set up a Board of Directors. Their job would be the Direction of the Agency, using their vast knowledge to setting up this massive project. (They would donate time and energy at first. Then can be a paid position).
IT People that can make this happen. Recruit and pay for passionate computer people that care about our industry.
Lawyers, yes they're needed to make sure our Ass is covered.
Each photographer would pay an Annual fee, to help offset costs, then once up and rolling, a very small percentage of all sales would be taken from images sold!

OK let's hear the ideas people!!!

Poncke · « **Reply #33 on:** October 20, 2012, 02:03 »

Quote from: cr8tivguy on October 19, 2012, 18:42

Some Ideas for OUR Agency to Work would be:
Set up a Board of Directors. Their job would be the Direction of the Agency, using their vast knowledge to setting up this massive project. (They would donate time and energy at first. Then can be a paid position).
IT People that can make this happen. Recruit and pay for passionate computer people that care about our industry.
Lawyers, yes they're needed to make sure our Ass is covered.
Each photographer would pay an Annual fee, to help offset costs, then once up and rolling, a very small percentage of all sales would be taken from images sold!

OK let's hear the ideas people!!!

Do you have any idea the cost would be for a paid board of directors, IT guys and lawyers? At least a couple of hundred thousand per year. Good luck finding people doing that for free.

sharpshot · « **Reply #34 on:** October 20, 2012, 02:11 »

Quote from: cr8tivguy on October 19, 2012, 18:42

...We MUST ALL STAND TOGETHER AS ONE!!!
Leave our Agencies and Sell DIRECT to our customers!
This CAN be done!!!...

After my experiences with leaving StockXpert, after it was turned in to a subs only site with cut commissions, and starting to leave istock, I noticed that nearly all of the big players were just carrying on as if nothing had happened. So there's no way I'm getting involved in a revolt until most of the top contributors have done it. They have all the power, the rest of us mean nothing to most of the sites, as they have shown us many times in the past few years.

If the money meant nothing to me, I could get involved but unfortunately, I rely to heavily on my microstock earnings.

cr8tivguy · « **Reply #35 on:** October 22, 2012, 12:31 »

Quote from: sharpshot on October 20, 2012, 02:11

Quote from: cr8tivguy on October 19, 2012, 18:42
...We MUST ALL STAND TOGETHER AS ONE!!!
Leave our Agencies and Sell DIRECT to our customers!
This CAN be done!!!...
After my experiences with leaving StockXpert, after it was turned in to a subs only site with cut commissions, and starting to leave istock, I noticed that nearly all of the big players were just carrying on as if nothing had happened. So there's no way I'm getting involved in a revolt until most of the top contributors have done it. They have all the power, the rest of us mean nothing to most of the sites, as they have shown us many times in the past few years.

If the money meant nothing to me, I could get involved but unfortunately, I rely to heavily on my microstock earnings.

We all live on our Sales... But ask yourself how much longer are you going to be taken advantage of?
Is your Agency treating you fairly? Are you making 100% of the money owed to you? Of course you know the answers to this questions. The real question is how much longer will you stay on the sidelines and let them bully you around? I agree we need to get the big guys involved!!!

But it starts with each one of us! Standing up for our rights, making a change, mostly telling other photographers to join the fight... Yes it's a fight for our rights and being paid properly! If your OK with the agencies making 80% of your money, and taking advantage of you, treating poorly...Then by all means stay where your at!

I on the other hand am "MAD AS HELL AND I'M NOT TAKING IT ANYMORE"

Quote from: cr8tivguy on October 22, 2012, 12:10

After doing a little research on Picture Engine, my first impression is...This is EXACTLY what I'm looking for in regards for ALL of us to leave our Agencies and list our own images, and take back control of our images.

Now migrating all your images to Picture Engine is easy. You set up your own Web site, which is great, because you know all of us our picky and want total control of everything...LOL
So you can be creative and make your own, or like I chose to use PhotoShelter from me. You can use KTools or whom ever you'd like. Price your images your own way, and make 100% of the money owed to you!!!

NOW is the time to JOIN, and LEAVE your AGENCY!!!

OK I know most of you need money, and are scared! I am too, but WE NEED TO STICK TOGETHER if we want to have maximum impact on the market.

Here's my idea!
Set up your website... List it with PictureEngine...If your exclusive with anyone, make sure you change your Agreement with them. Get everything ready to leave your Agency...When Picture Engine has all of the bugs worked out and is ready to launch... Everyone at the same time puts in their 30 day notice to the Agencies all at once...A MASSIVE exit all at the same time.... Now the Agencies have to remove your images from their Library or be liable to be sued! Picture Engine will now be the ONE source for Art Buyers world wide to find images...OUR images that we have 100% control over..

Look we've got to do something... Stock Agencies are treating us worse and worse every year! Their taking more and more of our share of our sales. Enough is enough!!! Let's show them who the BOSS is and fight back and tell them where to stick it!!!

I encourage you to look at your industry, and ask yourself has it gotten better or worse? Are you making more money or less? Are you happy with your Stock Agency?

I think you know the answers, and our only option is to STAND UP AND FIGHT BACK...TAKE CONTROL YOUR IMAGES AND WIN THIS FIGHT!!!

mattdixon · « **Reply #36 on:** October 22, 2012, 13:19 »

Quote from: KonaHawaii on September 22, 2012, 21:00

A little bit on the network: You will be able to add your "friends" (fellow microstockers) as inclusion to your network and search results. Everyone has different friends of course, so the network will be quite a phenomenon, as users will be able to migrate like bees around everyone's sites. You simply add their website name, and everything happens on its own.

I'm quite excited to see people will be into it. From here on I'll start tying up loose ends and get a nice package available soon.

Is there a website I can bookmark so I know when it's ready. I really like the sound of this.

mattdixon · « **Reply #37 on:** October 22, 2012, 13:30 »

Will sales data be a factor in the search results? Searches need to reflect what buyers find popular.
I think for it to work really well you need a strong "best match" algorithm.

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Author Topic: New project, need feedback or ideas please (Read 9763 times)

Leo Blanchette

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velocicarpo

Babbalouie

Leo Blanchette

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lisafx

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Poncke

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