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Author Topic: Peer-to-peer direct stock selling platform (WireStock)  (Read 73787 times)

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namussi

« Reply #75 on: October 26, 2017, 04:32 »
+1
Today's' naive idealist is tomorrow's big corporation...google, apple, facebook.......I suspect modern technology makes the tendency to monopolies easier.

But technology also destroys monopolies more easily.


« Reply #76 on: October 26, 2017, 07:41 »
+1
Today's' naive idealist is tomorrow's big corporation...google, apple, facebook.......I suspect modern technology makes the tendency to monopolies easier.

But technology also destroys monopolies more easily.

While I am not a techie, this topic is interesting to me, even though bitcoin, cryptocurrency, etc. may not be ready for prime time.  We are really discussing a potential future way of conducting business.  To namussi's point, remember Blockbuster and Netflix? Blockbuster is no more. Why? Netflix chased technology that Blockbuster thought would never catch on, so they scoffed at Netflix's strategy.  Game over for Blockbuster.

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #77 on: October 26, 2017, 07:50 »
+2
Quote
watch a few big corporations take over everything and keep finding ways to make more money from us.  Was that really the way the internet was supposed to function?
No, it wasn't intended to be a business opportunity, it was intended to be a method of sharing information for the common good.

namussi

« Reply #78 on: October 26, 2017, 08:28 »
0
Quote
watch a few big corporations take over everything and keep finding ways to make more money from us.  Was that really the way the internet was supposed to function?
No, it wasn't intended to be a business opportunity, it was intended to be a method of sharing information for the common good.

I thought it was a way for the military and government to maintain communications after a nuclear war.

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #79 on: October 26, 2017, 08:33 »
+1
Quote
watch a few big corporations take over everything and keep finding ways to make more money from us.  Was that really the way the internet was supposed to function?
No, it wasn't intended to be a business opportunity, it was intended to be a method of sharing information for the common good.

I thought it was a way for the military and government to maintain communications after a nuclear war.

That's not necessarily mutually exclusive.

namussi

« Reply #80 on: October 26, 2017, 08:34 »
0
Quote
watch a few big corporations take over everything and keep finding ways to make more money from us.  Was that really the way the internet was supposed to function?
No, it wasn't intended to be a business opportunity, it was intended to be a method of sharing information for the common good.

I thought it was a way for the military and government to maintain communications after a nuclear war.

That's not necessarily mutually exclusive.

Nor, for that matter, are business opportunities and sharing information for the common good.

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #81 on: October 26, 2017, 08:36 »
+2
Quote
watch a few big corporations take over everything and keep finding ways to make more money from us.  Was that really the way the internet was supposed to function?
No, it wasn't intended to be a business opportunity, it was intended to be a method of sharing information for the common good.

I thought it was a way for the military and government to maintain communications after a nuclear war.

That's not necessarily mutually exclusive.

Nor, for that matter, are business opportunities and sharing information for the common good.
Indeed, but it wasn't an original intention.

namussi

« Reply #82 on: October 26, 2017, 08:47 »
0
Quote
watch a few big corporations take over everything and keep finding ways to make more money from us.  Was that really the way the internet was supposed to function?
No, it wasn't intended to be a business opportunity, it was intended to be a method of sharing information for the common good.

Fair point.

I thought it was a way for the military and government to maintain communications after a nuclear war.

That's not necessarily mutually exclusive.

Nor, for that matter, are business opportunities and sharing information for the common good.
Indeed, but it wasn't an original intention.

Fair point.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2017, 09:03 by namussi »

« Reply #83 on: October 26, 2017, 18:12 »
+5
i used the internet before it was called the internet, when it was a network of decentralised computers connecting universities and yes, the military.

To share information for science but also to get behind the iron curtain and help those fighting for democracy or who lived under totalitarian rule. Give them a aplace to organize themselves and get connected while writing under an alias so they are much harder to track down.

The latter is being undercut these days, by countries who organize cyber attacks or countries that block access with very sophisticated technology and a huge army of tech cyber fighters.

Decentralized crypto currencies are an attempt to get back to the beginning, make a currency independent of national banks and greedy politicians.

But nobody knows how long it will take to have enough trust to be accepted as a mainstream alternative currency to the euro or dollar. And some countries are already trying to have their own national crypto currency...which the state would control...

It is an interesting idea, no question.

But I think unless you can easily buy the cryptos like any other currency via your bank or paypal or amazon pay or apple pay, it will be used by a fringe minority.

For stock customers I still dont really see the advantage. And we dont need a crypto currency to convince buyers to take our files.

But nothing wrong if someone wants to use their time to explore that.

I just dont see how it will make us less dependent from the agencies. Customers need a good infrastructure, inspected content and editors who know the latest trend. Somebody has to be there to lead  and have the vision.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2017, 16:58 by cobalt »

« Reply #84 on: October 27, 2017, 02:47 »
+3
i used the internet before it was called the internet, when it was a network of decentralised computers connecting universities and yes, the military.

To share information for science but also to get behind the iron curtain and help those fighting for democracy or who lived under totalitarian rule. Give them a aplace to organize themselves and get connected while writing under an alias so they are much harder to track down.

The latter is being undercut these days, by countries who organize cyber attacks or countries that block access with very sophisticated technology and a huge army of tech cyber fighters.

Decentralized crypto currencies are an attempt to get back to the beginning, make a currency independent of national banks and greedy politicians.

But nobody knows how long it will take to have enough trust to be accepted as a mainstream alternative currency to the euro or dollar. And some countries are already trying to have their own national crypto currency...which the state would control...

It is an interesting idea, no question.

But I think unless you can easily buy the cryptos like any other currency via your bank or paypal or amazon pay or apple pay, it will be used by a fringe minority.

For stock customers I still dont really see the advantage. And we dont need a crypto currency to convince buyers to take our files.

But nothing wrong if someone wants to use their time to explore that. i just dont see how it will make us less dependent from the agencies. Customers need a good infrastructure, inspected content and editors who know the latest trend. Somebody has to be there to lead  and have the vision.
Other cryptocurrencies pay for things like that with their own coins.  I think people are coming up with problems that should be resolvable. The biggest problem I see is timing.  This wont work if there isn't a slick platform that offers a viable alternative to the present sites.  There isn't anything I've seen out there yet that makes me think now is the right time.  Hopefully I will be surprised.

« Reply #85 on: October 28, 2017, 13:31 »
0
I had a good talk with Mike on hangouts.  I'm quite optimistic about this idea and will help the team if I can.  It wont be easy and I'm sure it will take a lot of time but hopefully they will come up with something that will be worth getting involved in.

« Reply #86 on: October 28, 2017, 13:52 »
+2
I had a good talk with Mike on hangouts.  I'm quite optimistic about this idea and will help the team if I can.  It wont be easy and I'm sure it will take a lot of time but hopefully they will come up with something that will be worth getting involved in.

I can only guess that he fleshed out the idea a lot more than he did here, because targeting On Demand images at the cheap end of the market dosen't seem to be much of a plan to be optomistic about.

« Reply #87 on: October 28, 2017, 15:01 »
0
I think the idea is to let people set their own prices, like Pond5 have done successfully with video.  So if you don't want to sell cheap, then you don't need to.

« Reply #88 on: October 28, 2017, 16:24 »
+1
I think the idea is to let people set their own prices, like Pond5 have done successfully with video.  So if you don't want to sell cheap, then you don't need to.

Not for me then I don't sell video, on a positive note I did sell an image on Pond5 once.

« Reply #89 on: October 28, 2017, 16:56 »
+6
if there is no middleman there some VAT problems in the EU. 
A marketplace with contracts direct between buyers and contributors will not work in the EU.

« Reply #90 on: October 28, 2017, 23:24 »
+3
I think the idea is to let people set their own prices, like Pond5 have done successfully with video.  So if you don't want to sell cheap, then you don't need to.

Setting your own prices always interests me. I'm not sure about the weird internet currency stuff. That's not really a selling point at all for me. Although, I'm not sure I'm invited to the party at all as an illustrator anyway.

« Reply #91 on: October 29, 2017, 02:31 »
0
if there is no middleman there some VAT problems in the EU. 
A marketplace with contracts direct between buyers and contributors will not work in the EU.
Plenty of people in the EU sell stuff on line peer to peer even photos on their own sites ???
« Last Edit: October 29, 2017, 03:44 by Pauws99 »

« Reply #92 on: October 29, 2017, 07:23 »
+3
if there is no middleman there some VAT problems in the EU. 
A marketplace with contracts direct between buyers and contributors will not work in the EU.
Plenty of people in the EU sell stuff on line peer to peer even photos on their own sites ???

of course its possible.
But you have to pay the VAT from buyers (with homeland inside the EU) in the buyers home country.
That means you have to check everytime an image is sold where to pay the VAT. The administrative effort is high i dont think that is profitable with microstock prices.

For example:
If i sold my images from EU via an agency that is outside the EU i have to pay 0 VAT and no  administrative effort. :o
« Last Edit: October 29, 2017, 07:34 by r2d2 »

« Reply #93 on: October 29, 2017, 08:10 »
+1
if there is no middleman there some VAT problems in the EU. 
A marketplace with contracts direct between buyers and contributors will not work in the EU.
Plenty of people in the EU sell stuff on line peer to peer even photos on their own sites ???

of course its possible.
But you have to pay the VAT from buyers (with homeland inside the EU) in the buyers home country.
That means you have to check everytime an image is sold where to pay the VAT. The administrative effort is high i dont think that is profitable with microstock prices.

For example:
If i sold my images from EU via an agency that is outside the EU i have to pay 0 VAT and no  administrative effort. :o
It isn't so much the effort it is that you have to be VAT registered which would be an absolute nightmare for me.

License sales count as being done in the country of the buyer so my income doesn't count towards my VAT threshold. If I even sold one license on my own site suddenly I would have to be VAT registered anyway because of that ridiculous EU directive. It would end up costing me a fortune from other work which at the moment I don't have to charge VAT on.

« Reply #94 on: October 29, 2017, 09:33 »
0
StockChain will act as a mediator and will charge 5-10% which will also be used to cover legal and accounting costs. However, we will not be involved in price setting. Contributors will set their on prices and charge buyers based on the terms they set, similar to ebay or other p2p platforms.

« Reply #95 on: October 29, 2017, 11:30 »
+5
StockChain will act as a mediator and will charge 5-10% which will also be used to cover legal and accounting costs. However, we will not be involved in price setting. Contributors will set their on prices and charge buyers based on the terms they set, similar to ebay or other p2p platforms.

That's great that you're doing all this work for free! 

« Reply #96 on: October 29, 2017, 12:02 »
+1
StockChain will act as a mediator and will charge 5-10% which will also be used to cover legal and accounting costs. However, we will not be involved in price setting. Contributors will set their on prices and charge buyers based on the terms they set, similar to ebay or other p2p platforms.

if you dont have a european VAT solution Stockchain is not interessting for 98% of the EU contributors.
If i want to sell direct i only need a website, CMS, licensetext, and Paypal.
For what do i need Stockchain?
Do you make marketing?

derek

    This user is banned.
« Reply #97 on: October 29, 2017, 13:54 »
+2
The sole reason why agencies pay peanuts and many treat their contributors like sheit is because they know the score. They know that we need them no matter what!  I personally sell lots more through the traditional agencies but on the whole we need the agencies.

« Reply #98 on: October 30, 2017, 00:15 »
+3
Are you hitting a single pain point? I am just not sure how using a cryptocurrency or peer-to-peer ungoverned network can help in favor of either buyer or seller/creator. 

PicturEngine lets photographers set their pricing and keep 100% of the sale, using direct peer-to-peer payments via PayPal.  We stay out of the licensing transaction and provide our platform, a time-tested enterprise level agency platform, opened to individual creators.  Instead of a commission or fee, we ask the sellers to help us pay for our platform and marketing upfront, keeping the participation fees as low as possible.  Charging a fee upfront cuts down everyone using it merely for the fact that it is free.

I found that by using PayPal, this helps to verify BOTH the buyer and the seller.  It is already too easy for a seller to upload another photographer's work and sell it as their own, especially on a free to use system.  Agencies do a lot of work and also take a lot of the risks upfront; hence the large percentage taken from licenses.  Take a look at the Zazzle case and more recently Flickr's movement away from print and liability.  Free to use systems simply cannot take on the risk these days. 

Using an anonymous cryptocurrency and peer-to-peer selling without a centralized platform IMO would enable more fraudsters, and make it harder to police infringements. Therefore you lose the trust of buyers and in the end, are not be very helpful for creators.

When enforcing copyright, it is important to track everything, and we help photographers do just that.  Sure, we could write that licensing information to the blockchain, but why, the blockchain is public. For now, most agencies hide this transaction information, masking the buyer's details sometimes displaying usage for RM images, making it impossible for individual creators to monitor infringements.  The agencies want to be the sole enforcer, but many are not doing it because it is cost prohibitive.  I am all for transparency, but it comes at a cost.

One last thing.  Where are you storing these images and who pays for that?  How reliable is it? Most importantly how secure is it? Who holds the keys?

« Reply #99 on: October 31, 2017, 02:23 »
+1
Justin, how many times have the sites allowed a thief to sell our images for a long time until one of us spots it?    I bet that a lot of them are in, or have been in, your search engine.  It can take a long time to get the images removed when they are reported as well.  Hopefully a site that's not run by people that are only interested in increasing profits for their shareholders would be able to put in place something that makes it harder for image thieves, not easier.  I think it might be a good idea to wait and see what this platform is all about before making assumptions.


 

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