Author Topic: PeopleImages.com - 3mth Considerations. (Read 38830 times)

Sean Locke Photography · « **Reply #75 on:** August 10, 2012, 08:57 »

Quote from: Digital66 on August 10, 2012, 08:14

Quote from: Les on August 10, 2012, 03:17
Quote

Paying retouchers $4.63 per hour is abusive.
Let me educate you about the real world. This doesn't even compare to the abuse I get from my girlfriend or some despicable MS agencies.

According to my calculations, getting paid $4.63/hr for sitting in a warm place one could make $37.12 for eight hours of work. Not counting other benefits. That's substantially more than most microstock contributors make in one day.
Why haven't you left your girlfriend?

Good benefits?

aeonf · « **Reply #76 on:** August 10, 2012, 11:46 »

^^^ LOL
good one

StockBottom · « **Reply #77 on:** August 10, 2012, 12:31 »

Quote from: Digital66 on August 10, 2012, 07:14

And what's your definittion of "living fairly well"?

i can give you the example of Bangkok, a big city, expensive by thai standards.
- small apartment for around 100$/month with tv/fridge/washmachine/hot water, eventually a couple fans or aircon.
- a honda scooter
- a smart phone
- cheap chinese clothes
- 1$ meals, anywhere at any corner of bangkok, 24hrs, always someone selling food around take away.
- weekend : getting drunk with friends on cheap beers (1.5$ for 66cc bottles) or Thai rum (Sang Som) or Thai whiskey (2-3$/bottle)
or even the awful Mekong Whiskey (1$/bottle !!).

THAT's what they call a normal life and believe it or not they can make it with 150-200$ per month
and with great fun (sanuk) in the spare time !

if you say Yuri is underpaying his drones well i can't confirm it as we should know the prices in Cape Town
but i can say in most of the countries i've been that salary would be high-end, not rock bottom.

StockBottom · « **Reply #78 on:** August 10, 2012, 12:35 »

Quote from: djpadavona on August 10, 2012, 00:30

I watch it plenty. Still not sure what your point is. Yahoo stock is up 15-20% over the last 12 months. Google's rise is similar.

Facebook was a terribly priced IPO and the stock is being pushed toward fair value. It has nothing to do with their business going bankrupt. Zynga is small potatoes compared to the other 3, and I really don't feel their business success is indicative of anything in this discussion.

i repeat, a big company selling digital products and making net profits above 30% is the exception, not the rule.
investors are getting wild about Google announcing 35% rise in profits for instance.

but NO WAY micro agencies like SS or IS are doing 50% or 80% as someone here thinks erroneously.
if true, i would seriously buy SS shares and get rich and that's not the case.

if they go IPO is because they peaked and they want to jump crap soon after, just like the FB ponzi scam.

leaf · « **Reply #79 on:** August 10, 2012, 13:25 »

Thanks for the thoughts Yuri.

There are certainly a number of ways agencies boost their earnings 'on the side'. Unused credits, as you mentioned is one, another is accounts filled with stolen photos which get sales but are later closed (due to stolen content). This is probably a pretty small amount in comparison to unused credits but where do all the earnings go that are in an account with stolen photos (our photos) that get's closed?? I'm assuming they just get absorbed by the stock agencies.

Les · « **Reply #80 on:** August 10, 2012, 15:52 »

Quote from: Digital66 on August 10, 2012, 08:14

Quote from: Les on August 10, 2012, 03:17
Quote

Paying retouchers $4.63 per hour is abusive.
Let me educate you about the real world. This doesn't even compare to the abuse I get from my girlfriend or some despicable MS agencies.

According to my calculations, getting paid $4.63/hr for sitting in a warm place one could make $37.12 for eight hours of work. Not counting other benefits. That's substantially more than most microstock contributors make in one day.
Why haven't you left your girlfriend?

It's a friendly abuse. I borrowed the line from BB King's Lucille. Play it, it's a great tune.

Les · « **Reply #81 on:** August 10, 2012, 16:07 »

Quote from: sjlocke on August 10, 2012, 08:57

Quote from: Digital66 on August 10, 2012, 08:14
Quote from: Les on August 10, 2012, 03:17
Quote

Paying retouchers $4.63 per hour is abusive.
Let me educate you about the real world. This doesn't even compare to the abuse I get from my girlfriend or some despicable MS agencies.

According to my calculations, getting paid $4.63/hr for sitting in a warm place one could make $37.12 for eight hours of work. Not counting other benefits. That's substantially more than most microstock contributors make in one day.
Why haven't you left your girlfriend?

Good benefits?

According to Facebook, South Africa gives you free condoms. (from Facebook or Health Department).

JPSDK · « **Reply #82 on:** August 11, 2012, 09:58 »

The logical move in a world of crowsourcing, when you step up and hire personel, is of course to crowdsource the personel also at world market prices.
Wages are not the same at different places in the world, whereas picture prices are the same, and they are low. We all complain about that.

Its amazing that Yuri could build such a succes out of the high costs in Denmark in the beginning. He is now doing what we all need to do if we want to expand: hire cheap hands to produce cheap pictures.

That just gave me an idea: To outsource my photography and send my camera to a guy in Africa, and have him photograph elephant feet, African landscapes and broken down landrovers. I could then sell the pictures and he could get 20 % of the earnings.

We live in a crude world of capitalistic competition, and the wages we are used to in the rich western world are under pressure. We microstock photographers should of all know that.

ShadySue · « **Reply #83 on:** August 11, 2012, 22:03 »

Quote from: Digital66 on August 09, 2012, 22:32

Paying retouchers $4.63 per hour is abusive. Funny how Yuri complains about the low royalties paid by the agencies, and look at peanuts he pays.

It's why he moved to RSA; the same reason as so many UK companies outsource to India.
For example, minimum legal wage for a domestic worker in RSA is R8.34 per hour:

According to XE, R8.34 is equivalent to US$1.033.
Which would you rather be? A retoucher or a domestic? (Apart from the fact that sitting at a computer all day is unhealthy).

Digital66 · « **Reply #84 on:** August 12, 2012, 00:23 »

Quote from: StockBottom on August 10, 2012, 12:31

Quote from: Digital66 on August 10, 2012, 07:14

And what's your definittion of "living fairly well"?

i can give you the example of Bangkok, a big city, expensive by thai standards.
- small apartment for around 100$/month with tv/fridge/washmachine/hot water, eventually a couple fans or aircon.
- a honda scooter
- a smart phone
- cheap chinese clothes
- 1$ meals, anywhere at any corner of bangkok, 24hrs, always someone selling food around take away.
- weekend : getting drunk with friends on cheap beers (1.5$ for 66cc bottles) or Thai rum (Sang Som) or Thai whiskey (2-3$/bottle)
or even the awful Mekong Whiskey (1$/bottle !!).

THAT's what they call a normal life and believe it or not they can make it with 150-200$ per month
and with great fun (sanuk) in the spare time !

Rather than living fairly well, it sounds like surviving in a big city with no family.

Digital66 · « **Reply #85 on:** August 12, 2012, 00:30 »

Quote from: ShadySue on August 11, 2012, 22:03

Quote from: Digital66 on August 09, 2012, 22:32

Paying retouchers $4.63 per hour is abusive. Funny how Yuri complains about the low royalties paid by the agencies, and look at peanuts he pays.

It's why he moved to RSA; the same reason as so many UK companies outsource to India.
For example, minimum legal wage for a domestic worker in RSA is R8.34 per hour:

According to XE, R8.34 is equivalent to US$1.033.
Which would you rather be? A retoucher or a domestic? (Apart from the fact that sitting at a computer all day is unhealthy).

Paying such wages is exploitation. And that's what Yuri is doing in SA. He's exploiting people and want everyone to see him as the great benefactor.

markrhiggins · « **Reply #86 on:** August 12, 2012, 03:03 »

Yuri is paying a fair wage for South Africa. Go to Cambodia and get a Tuk Tuk and driver all day for $10?? Exploitative? We all live in different places with different costs. The world really is bigger than Western Europe and USA my god there is even Canada Denmark and Australia. Yuri's actions help us all.

Upload limits are difficult to understand. At a time IS had it going well many people could not upload many of their images there. So you join others such as SS. Guess what by the time you can go exclusive you have many more images paying much more at SS etc. Any exclusives at IS complaining about others and their ethics is so so hypocritical. In this dog eat dog world IS exclusives do not mind what happens to independents there so how can they complain about Yuri.

Good luck and keep going Yuri.

sharpshot · « **Reply #87 on:** August 12, 2012, 03:16 »

Quote from: Digital66 on August 12, 2012, 00:30

Quote from: ShadySue on August 11, 2012, 22:03
Quote from: Digital66 on August 09, 2012, 22:32

Paying retouchers $4.63 per hour is abusive. Funny how Yuri complains about the low royalties paid by the agencies, and look at peanuts he pays.

It's why he moved to RSA; the same reason as so many UK companies outsource to India.
For example, minimum legal wage for a domestic worker in RSA is R8.34 per hour:

According to XE, R8.34 is equivalent to US$1.033.
Which would you rather be? A retoucher or a domestic? (Apart from the fact that sitting at a computer all day is unhealthy).

Paying such wages is exploitation. And that's what Yuri is doing in SA. He's exploiting people and want everyone to see him as the great benefactor.

If he's paying the minimum legal wage or above, how can you call it exploitation? It's exploitation when people pay below the minimum legal wage or when they outsource to a country that doesn't have a minimum wage.
Do you know how much the people that make your cameras and other photographic equipment are paid?

Dantheman · « **Reply #88 on:** August 12, 2012, 03:44 »

Quote from: Digital66 on August 12, 2012, 00:23

Quote from: StockBottom on August 10, 2012, 12:31
Quote from: Digital66 on August 10, 2012, 07:14

And what's your definittion of "living fairly well"?

i can give you the example of Bangkok, a big city, expensive by thai standards.
- small apartment for around 100$/month with tv/fridge/washmachine/hot water, eventually a couple fans or aircon.
- a honda scooter
- a smart phone
- cheap chinese clothes
- 1$ meals, anywhere at any corner of bangkok, 24hrs, always someone selling food around take away.
- weekend : getting drunk with friends on cheap beers (1.5$ for 66cc bottles) or Thai rum (Sang Som) or Thai whiskey (2-3$/bottle)
or even the awful Mekong Whiskey (1$/bottle !!).

THAT's what they call a normal life and believe it or not they can make it with 150-200$ per month
and with great fun (sanuk) in the spare time !
Rather than living fairly well, it sounds like surviving in a big city with no family.

There are definately cheaper Countries/Cities than Cape Town.

There are also other reasons to move to Cape Town. Great Weather. Wonderful City. Unbeliveable Landscapes and a huge amount of Models.

I think the combination of these Qualities made him move there.

ShadySue · « **Reply #89 on:** August 12, 2012, 05:09 »

ShadySue · « **Reply #90 on:** August 12, 2012, 05:26 »

Quote from: Digital66 on August 12, 2012, 00:30

Quote from: ShadySue on August 11, 2012, 22:03
Quote from: Digital66 on August 09, 2012, 22:32

Paying retouchers $4.63 per hour is abusive. Funny how Yuri complains about the low royalties paid by the agencies, and look at peanuts he pays.

It's why he moved to RSA; the same reason as so many UK companies outsource to India.
For example, minimum legal wage for a domestic worker in RSA is R8.34 per hour:

According to XE, R8.34 is equivalent to US$1.033.
Which would you rather be? A retoucher or a domestic? (Apart from the fact that sitting at a computer all day is unhealthy).

Paying such wages is exploitation. And that's what Yuri is doing in SA. He's exploiting people and want everyone to see him as the great benefactor.

He has moved to a low-wage economy, which isn't the same issue.
If he were paying e.g. Scandinavians, Brits or North Americans $1 an hour, that would be exploitation (and illegal).
He appears to be paying them 4x minimum wage, which is proportionately more than I get for teaching community education classes (i.e. the 'going rate' is around 3x UK minimum wage, with no payment for class prep time). It's probably more than many microstockers get for their efforts.
I was in Edinburgh over the past few days, and as I was waiting for a bus, I happened to look into an employment agency, and was astonished at how many jobs of responsibility (i.e. being responsible for supervising other workers, and with a 'proven track record' in similar positions as a prerequisite) in offices and the construction industry were being advertised for around 1.5x minimum wage, in the city with the second most-expensive accomodation prices in the UK (so the workers would have to live a long way out of town and have big commute times and costs.
I don't like that he made them work overnight because of his cock-up, and I sure hope he paid them at least double time and gave them a day off afterwards.

Eireann · « **Reply #91 on:** August 12, 2012, 18:53 »

Hi there,
not that it matters or that anybody cares, but I for one am firmly standing for Team Sean Locke.
I am taking sides. I always did, on every matter, that's how I am. Opinionated.
There are other reasons for supporting Sean, besides his fascinating good looks, (after all, Yuri is gorgeously handsome too).
Sean, you might find the following amusing, keep reading

I remember years ago when I first started reading this forum and Sean's posts.
I immediately fell into the same trap many other people did and still do.
I could not think of another, more caustic, despicable person walking the surface of the Earth than Sean Locke.
I was wrong. Very wrong, and it took me years to finally be able to crack his carefully built appearance.
I will give you a few reasons for changing my mind and standing by his team today.
Sean Locke is fair.
He is also brave enough to stand up for the 'little people', even when he has nothing to gain by doing so.
About 2 years ago IStock decided to implement the canister changes.
It was a miserable move and Sean didn't like it. He wasn't personally affected by it, but his sense of right and wrong was powerful enough to make him take a stand against it.
Some time later IStock decided to cut independents' commissions to an unheard low of 15%.
Again, Sean wasn't affected by the change, but again he stood by us, independents and voiced his disapproval.
Did he really do that solely for us, independents?
Not entirely.
He didn't like the general direction things were going and he tried to make his point clear and defend his own future and the future of the industry.
But what did he actually do that was so great and worthy of praise?
He complained and posted a few times on Istock's own forums.
That's not much indeed, but it is a lot more than Yuri ever did.
I have never seen Yuri fighting for us, contributors, or taking anybody's side, (except his own) in conflicts with agencies.
You can do easily do it, Yuri!
You've got the whole world at your feet, you're young and handsome, you're rich, you're famous and you're powerful. Use that power to change things for the better. You would be remembered and respected for something else beside the money you've made.
And one more point for Sean.
Since Yuri mentioned charities, what about charities? I have no information about Yuri giving money to charities but I know Sean did.
About 2 years ago, around Christmas Sean set up a charity - can't remember the name or the exact details, but I know for a fact that he gave away a percentage of his total earnings for the month of December 2011 to help children(?)
Sean is a gentleman and he may decide to keep quiet and not give us any more details about his charity, but I know for certain that he had set up a charity and gave part of his money away.
LisaFX also participated to something similar, Adelaide did too, so did I and many other photographers on this forum, but I'm sorry, I can't remember anything about Yuri.
So, to answer Yuri's question: - 'did Sean ever give money to charities'?
Yes, he did.
I'm sure Yuri did too, a lot more possibly, it's just that I don't know about it.
Charity or no charity, it's irrelevant and we shouldn't be talking about this kind of things anyway.
Meanwhile let's try to stick together and stop agencies from forever lowering our commissions and paying us 5 cents per download like IStock is so fond of doing. LisaFX has many times tried her best to stop them, so did Sean.
Let's hope Yuri will be joining them soon.
Best regards,

cardmaverick · « **Reply #92 on:** August 13, 2012, 02:04 »

All this talk about money.... the real culprit is the Federal Reserve and useless paper money that's being printed like crazy. Heck, there are foreign currencies being printed like crazy that are backed by US dollars being printed like crazy.... If you want to blame something. Blame those two things and you're on the right track. Don't blame Yuri, he's just trying to survive and thrive in a world that is destroying his gains via printing presses.

lisafx · « **Reply #93 on:** August 13, 2012, 10:11 »

Quote from: Eireann on August 12, 2012, 18:53

I remember years ago when I first started reading this forum and Sean's posts.
I immediately fell into the same trap many other people did and still do.
I could not think of another, more caustic, despicable person walking the surface of the Earth than Sean Locke.
I was wrong. Very wrong, and it took me years to finally be able to crack his carefully built appearance.

LOL! I thought it was just me. I had the same impression early on about Sean. But you are absolutely right, he has been probably the most activist of the big sellers in trying to boost this industry and fight the negative changes we are seeing, even when he's not personally affected. And yes, I remember the charity initiative too. Probably still happening, but under the radar.

StockBottom · « **Reply #94 on:** August 13, 2012, 10:56 »

i can't see what this fuss about donations, charities, and philantropism is all about.

i live in a poor country at the moment and we're flooded by greedy NGOs and if you
could come here and see what i see on a daily basis you would think twice before
giving these guys half a dollar.

luissantos84 · « **Reply #95 on:** August 13, 2012, 10:59 »

Quote from: StockBottom on August 13, 2012, 10:56

i can't see what this fuss about donations, charities, and philantropism is all about.

exactly, we need to be sure of what we are talking about before attacking other

StockBottom · « **Reply #96 on:** August 13, 2012, 11:20 »

Quote from: cardmaverick on August 13, 2012, 02:04

All this talk about money.... the real culprit is the Federal Reserve and useless paper money that's being printed like crazy. Heck, there are foreign currencies being printed like crazy that are backed by US dollars being printed like crazy.... If you want to blame something. Blame those two things and you're on the right track. Don't blame Yuri, he's just trying to survive and thrive in a world that is destroying his gains via printing presses.

it's not so simple.
nobody forbids thailand or china to make their currency as expensive as the euro or the dollar.
but they don't do it or they would lose instantly all their exports and most of their national economy would
go in turmoil.

go in china and while the unskilled workers have a very hard life, the white collars are doing pretty good
in the last 10 yrs, and this happens also the in whole SE asia.

raising the Thai baht 30% in the last 4 yrs already had a huge negative impact on thailand tourism and
in thai exports, they're no more the world's top rice producer and exporter, as Vietnam is not nr.1 due
to cheaper price and improving quality, Burma also is pushing in the same direction.

now thai farmers are asking for help or they will lose their jobs, government is doing F all and even refusing
the 300 baht/day (10$) minimum wage.

this has prevented a further domino effect in inflation, but for how long ?

you think it's a matter of printing paper money, but it's more complex than that.
money will be soon in electronic form, no need to even print it, it's already like
that for some central banks, as they only print on demand.

cambodia is also using a dual currency, Riel and US Dollar, they can't print dollars but
they can print Riels .. let me say they're not getting rich with that and their whole economical strategy
is still primarily based on begging to foreign powers.

Microbius · « **Reply #97 on:** August 13, 2012, 12:35 »

Yup, China keeps the value of its currency down by as much as 35% below what the market would set, guaranteeing they can export cheaper than any Western nation.
Just think on that when considering international competition. It makes the idea of a free market a bit of a joke.

cardmaverick · « **Reply #98 on:** August 13, 2012, 12:50 »

Quote from: Microbius on August 13, 2012, 12:35

Yup, China keeps the value of its currency down by as much as 35% below what the market would set, guaranteeing they can export cheaper than any Western nation.
Just think on that when considering international competition. It makes the idea of a free market a bit of a joke.

It's not a free market.... no system of banking controlled by government instituted central banks is free.

As for undervaluing, it's true, China does, but it's only hurting them in the long run, eventually they will see they don't need to sell to countries like the US. They can sell to their own domestic market and do just fine.

pro@stockphotos · « **Reply #99 on:** August 13, 2012, 14:34 »

Quote from: lisafx on August 13, 2012, 10:11

Quote from: Eireann on August 12, 2012, 18:53

I remember years ago when I first started reading this forum and Sean's posts.
I immediately fell into the same trap many other people did and still do.
I could not think of another, more caustic, despicable person walking the surface of the Earth than Sean Locke.
I was wrong. Very wrong, and it took me years to finally be able to crack his carefully built appearance.

LOL! I thought it was just me. I had the same impression early on about Sean. But you are absolutely right, he has been probably the most activist of the big sellers in trying to boost this industry and fight the negative changes we are seeing, even when he's not personally affected. And yes, I remember the charity initiative too. Probably still happening, but under the radar.

Sean pays Federal, State, and local taxes. The U.S. government is the largest charity ever to exist. So anyone who pays taxes in the U.S. has no reason to "give back". If you want to compare Sean vs Yuri then as exclusive or independent Sean is by far better helping both groups. Yuri has propped up and then complained about all the low paying sites. Without his help they would have had a harder time sticking around. The is an assumption that if istock was dominant they would screw us. But, it appears the competition competing only price has left a declining market and a lot of worry.

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Author Topic: PeopleImages.com - 3mth Considerations. (Read 38830 times)

Sean Locke Photography

aeonf

StockBottom

StockBottom

leaf

Les

Les

JPSDK

ShadySue

Digital66

Digital66

markrhiggins

sharpshot

Dantheman

ShadySue

ShadySue

Eireann

cardmaverick

lisafx

StockBottom

luissantos84

StockBottom

Microbius

cardmaverick

pro@stockphotos

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