Author Topic: Popularity Function on SS (Read 7081 times)

Fran · « **on:** January 21, 2010, 09:22 »

This is pure speculation based on a couple of years of "observing" my images popularity in SS.
From observation the popularity function looks something like:

P = (a * D + b * V) / T

Where:
D = downloads
V = views
T = time
a, b = fixed coefficients

This function is consistent with the following observations:
- A new image getting some downloads from buyers scanning new images jumps up in Popularity (small T)
- If an image doesn't get downloads slowly crawls back in Popularity (increasing T)
- Subsequent downloads will result in an always smaller increase in Popularity (fixed D divided by increasing T)
- Old images' Popularity tend to be very stable (increasing T against a large T is mostly irrelevant)

I don't think any boost is given to the whole portfolio when uploading.
Any thoughts?

sc · « **Reply #1 on:** January 21, 2010, 10:17 »

Quote from: Fran on January 21, 2010, 09:22

...Any thoughts?

Shoot more calculate less

Fran · « **Reply #2 on:** January 21, 2010, 10:22 »

Quote from: sc on January 21, 2010, 10:17

Shoot more calculate less

Calculate AND shoot.

Giuseppe Parisi · « **Reply #3 on:** January 21, 2010, 10:31 »

Maths is like ancient Chines to me... I just take pictures and I do not fry my brain with formulae... too many problems already to take care of.

Fran · « **Reply #4 on:** January 21, 2010, 10:35 »

Quote from: Giuseppe Parisi on January 21, 2010, 10:31

Maths is like ancient Chines to me... I just take pictures and I do not fry my brain with formulae... too many problems already to take care of.

My interest here is to discuss SS Popularity, which could be helpful to some of us to understand when is more efficient to upload to maximize return in terms of sales.
We can discuss your mathematical attitude maybe in another topic? I'd say that if you are not interested in a topic, you can safely skip it.

Giuseppe Parisi · « **Reply #5 on:** January 21, 2010, 10:45 »

woh woh..
hey take it easy man!

corepics · « **Reply #6 on:** January 21, 2010, 11:28 »

What does this add to what we already know? Without specific figures, its just a guesstimate, as valuable as common sense and your - presumably correct - observations from years of experience and study. It proves you can put almost everything into a formula, without creating more clarity.

RacePhoto · « **Reply #7 on:** January 21, 2010, 22:45 »

Quote from: Fran on January 21, 2010, 09:22

I don't think any boost is given to the whole portfolio when uploading.
Any thoughts?

Yes, the fact is that I have photos that sat for a year, no downloads. I didn't upload for maybe six months and just watched lower and lower numbers from what was there. A couple of months ago I started uploading just five photos a week to keep my account active and see what happened.

Every month since then I get more downloads, and for the first time, Jan 2010 will pass my second month as a contributor for number of downloads. (not sales, just counting downloads) Many are files that were never downloaded before. Did someone just discover they wanted my photos?

What people have said since the first day here is true. You should have a good size collection if you are starting with SS and upload all you can in the first two months. You get a new member boost. Also if you upload something new every month it seems to enhance your sales for some reason. I don't know how or why, but "feeding the beast" does work.

I'll guess that somewhere in the SS ranking your number of new uploads helps. And since I've been adding new files and getting more downloads each month, that probably also helps the SS member rank.

My most downloaded file is number one but after that, the second most sold image, which also has an EL is way down the page. Recently sold files, some with only one download, are ahead of it. With that I can guess that recently sold files are more popular than files which have sold more times in the last year. "Most Popular" is not most downloaded and not most money. So what is it?

I don't see any way to tell how many times a file has been viewed on SS?

leaf · « **Reply #8 on:** January 22, 2010, 02:11 »

I think constantly uploading is good because people find your new images when sorting by 'newest first' then click into your portfolio and download more of your old images, making them more popular in the process, which in turn makes the old images come up higher in the search.

Randy McKown · « **Reply #9 on:** January 22, 2010, 03:16 »

Quote from: RacePhoto on January 21, 2010, 22:45

I don't see any way to tell how many times a file has been viewed on SS?

I wouldn't worry about it too much. I tried to find some type of correlation between views and sales several years ago and came up bone dry. One image with 1000 views and 0 downloads and another very similar image with 500 views and 200 downloads. Often people just like to stop and take a peek so maybe that is what throws the whole thing out of wack.

I totally agree with continuous uploading at SS. I got too busy with seniors at the studio this summer and didn't have time to spend on microstock .. sales dropped by the thousands over it. Now that winter is here I can start uploading again and see what happens.

Fran · « **Reply #10 on:** January 22, 2010, 03:31 »

Quote from: leaf on January 22, 2010, 02:11

I think constantly uploading is good because people find your new images when sorting by 'newest first' then click into your portfolio and download more of your old images, making them more popular in the process, which in turn makes the old images come up higher in the search.

Good point.
I'm curious: do you upload on friday? It takes one or two days for an image to get into the DB, which means appearing around sunday and probably getting "less download" thus decreasing Popularity during the week.
That's why I try to time uploads on saturday or sunday.

sharpshot · « **Reply #11 on:** January 22, 2010, 04:05 »

I think the amount of money potentially lost by holding off uploading is probably more than you can make by having your images appear in the search on a Monday. Sometimes reviews take longer, so uploading on Wednesday, Thursday or Friday would be good. An image will either sell or not, I haven't seen any difference with images uploaded on different days. People have tried to prove it makes a difference in the past but I just don't see it. Some images that appear in the search on a Saturday will sell before Monday and be ahead in the search. If that buyer then puts your portfolio in their favorites and returns to buy more, the earnings could be good. There is also the possibility of getting an image selected for a lightbox or to be featured on the front page of the site. Missing out on that because the image is waiting to be uploaded could be very costly.

PowerDroid · « **Reply #12 on:** January 22, 2010, 09:28 »

The true recipe for success on SS or any other site is this: less focus on quantity, more on quality and uniqueness. The "feed the beast" approach should be the icing on the cake to give you an extra boost rather than the core of your strategy. Focus on underserved subjects and keep your portfolio diverse. Develop a unique style. If you're afraid the only way a buyer will see your image is if it places highly in the "most recent" upload search results, you're admitting that you're just adding more of the same and there's nothing that makes you stand out. Be unique. Keyword wisely. Do your homework to discover what buyers want vs. what isn't well represented at the agencies. Feeding the beast, and focusing on quantity over quality, is what will kill microstock.

Randy McKown · « **Reply #13 on:** January 22, 2010, 10:22 »

Quote from: PowerDroid on January 22, 2010, 09:28

The true recipe for success on SS or any other site is this: less focus on quantity, more on quality and uniqueness. The "feed the beast" approach should be the icing on the cake to give you an extra boost rather than the core of your strategy. Focus on underserved subjects and keep your portfolio diverse. Develop a unique style. If you're afraid the only way a buyer will see your image is if it places highly in the "most recent" upload search results, you're admitting that you're just adding more of the same and there's nothing that makes you stand out. Be unique. Keyword wisely. Do your homework to discover what buyers want vs. what isn't well represented at the agencies. Feeding the beast, and focusing on quantity over quality, is what will kill microstock.

even better do both. There's no reason why somebody who wanted to couldn't sit down and streamline their workflow to accommodate both quality and quantity. Lots of work but the best of both worlds.

lagereek · « **Reply #14 on:** January 28, 2010, 05:02 »

See! this is the differance between SS and many other Micro/Macro agencies.
SS, by using popularity as a default search they are immediately offering the most popular and perhaps the best to buyers with just a flick of the switch. Saving buyers from having to wade through tons of irrelevat material and clogging up the files with lots of stuff that really shouldnt be there.

Theres no doubt, no matter how sophisticated, how quick a search is, if buyers dont find, fast and easy, within first 5 pages. They will move on.

Another aspect is ofcourse that by using popularity, other contributors will strive to get up there among the best and most DLd shots, we all want to be on the premiere pages, right?

Using say "relevance" or similar as a default, well, a good shot might simply never, ever see the light of day.

The search-mechanism, is what will either make or break an agency.

borg · « **Reply #15 on:** January 28, 2010, 09:01 »

How it possible that one of my photos approved last week, has second position in my portfolio without any sales...
Is it only because views or...?

disorderly · « **Reply #16 on:** January 28, 2010, 10:00 »

Quote from: borg on January 28, 2010, 09:01

How it possible that one of my photos approved last week, has second position in my portfolio without any sales...
Is it only because views or...?

I've never seen that happen. Are you sure it hasn't had even one sale? Because the algorithm uses downloads over time, new images get to the front of the list as soon as they get any sales at all. Then over time they slide down the page(s) to their natural position.

lagereek · « **Reply #17 on:** January 28, 2010, 10:26 »

Quote from: borg on January 28, 2010, 09:01

How it possible that one of my photos approved last week, has second position in my portfolio without any sales...
Is it only because views or...?

yeah but any search engine is only as good as the people constructing it, you understand? ofcourse mistakes are made, happens with all. Check your default setting, it couldn be set to age, or new?
BTW, the more generic, run of the mill stuff an agency house, the more room for errors. Why? because all of a sudden people can find 100 keywords for just a sunset.

jbarber873 · « **Reply #18 on:** February 03, 2010, 21:08 »

Quote from: PowerDroid on January 22, 2010, 09:28

The true recipe for success on SS or any other site is this: less focus on quantity, more on quality and uniqueness. The "feed the beast" approach should be the icing on the cake to give you an extra boost rather than the core of your strategy. Focus on underserved subjects and keep your portfolio diverse. Develop a unique style. If you're afraid the only way a buyer will see your image is if it places highly in the "most recent" upload search results, you're admitting that you're just adding more of the same and there's nothing that makes you stand out. Be unique. Keyword wisely. Do your homework to discover what buyers want vs. what isn't well represented at the agencies. Feeding the beast, and focusing on quantity over quality, is what will kill microstock.

Well said, powerdroid. I have found that it helps to keep posting, but only the good stuff sells well. Although, my long time maxim from the macrostock world is: Every dog has his day!

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Author Topic: Popularity Function on SS (Read 7081 times)

Fran

sc

Fran

Giuseppe Parisi

Fran

Giuseppe Parisi

corepics

RacePhoto

leaf

Randy McKown

Fran

sharpshot

PowerDroid

Randy McKown

lagereek

borg

disorderly

lagereek

jbarber873

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