MicrostockGroup

Agency Based Discussion => Shutterstock.com => Topic started by: Anyka on February 17, 2021, 04:46

Title: Attacked because of a keyword - what can he do?
Post by: Anyka on February 17, 2021, 04:46
I woke up this morning with a facebook message about a Shutterstock batch of mine.  The series is of a black woman with african braided hair, which I call "afro hair" in the description of the images (because the model called it that way).  She is doing her hair looking into a mirror, so I cannot just ignore her hair in the description.
These images had reasonably good sales for 3 years already, and now I get this message on facebook :



The message is from a person in North Carolina, and he obviously knows I'm not American.
I'm not asking how to reply - I already replied that I don't understand his point, because to me, to the model and to my Ghanese friends, this hairdo is called an afro hairstyle.
My reply was very friendly and polite, as I don't want somebody to get nasty on my FB business page or anywhere else.


But I do have 2 questions :


To the American Microstockers :  is calling this an "afro hairstyle" offending??  Here in Belgium, even between black people, it is not, but maybe in American culture it is ???
To all :  if he contacts Shutterstock about it, what do you expect their reaction would be?  Do nothing?  Delete the images?  Tell me to change the wording?  ??





Title: Re: Attacked because of a keyword - what can he do?
Post by: Bad Robot on February 17, 2021, 04:59
Why are you even worried about this?

Just ignore it and block that dipshit you are just being trolled.

However if your model does not have an afro hair style as she has braided hair then I'd remove the keywords as it is misleading.  You might want to consider corn rows.

And no afro hair style is not offensive.

As to shitterstock they won't give a sh-it

Title: Re: Attacked because of a keyword - what can he do?
Post by: MxR on February 17, 2021, 05:06
Block this stupid people
Title: Re: Attacked because of a keyword - what can he do?
Post by: Anyka on February 17, 2021, 05:11
Why are you even worried about this?


Well, I prefer discussing this with him through FB messaging and keep the discussion away from my studio clients.  If he keeps on being angry after my friendly reply, I will block him, but my first try is a nice and peaceful one.


Thanks for your suggestion about the corn rows - I looked them up, but that's not quite what my model's hair looks like.
Here's one of the shots of this series :
(https://image.shutterstock.com/image-photo/pretty-young-african-american-woman-600w-1419428528.jpg)

Would you call that afro hairstyle ? 
Title: Re: Attacked because of a keyword - what can he do?
Post by: Bad Robot on February 17, 2021, 05:16
Braids or plaits also braided, however they can be described as an afro with braids


https://therighthairstyles.com/30-best-black-braided-hairst/

As to your dipshit terminally insulted facebook contact they obviously didn't check shitterstocks latest "afro" offerings as it includes white women/caucasians

I would just send him a thank you message and advise them the key words have now been amended.

Then block the idiot.
Title: Re: Attacked because of a keyword - what can he do?
Post by: ShadySue on February 17, 2021, 05:20
I tend to think of 'afro hair' (as in an 'afro' hairdo) as being more 'natural', i.e. not braided, but I can't see how your photo could be either 'wrong' or 'offensive'.
Don't feed the troll. They're just winding you up. Some people have nothing else to do.
Title: Re: Attacked because of a keyword - what can he do?
Post by: Anyka on February 17, 2021, 05:32
Glad to hear I did not use officially offending words!  The model is from the UK, not American, so I wasn't sure if there were cultural differences on this topic.  If he writes again, I'll tell him there's a difference between an incorrect and a racist word, and if he's searching for incorrect keywords at Shutterstock, he'll find billions of them ...
Title: Re: Attacked because of a keyword - what can he do?
Post by: Bad Robot on February 17, 2021, 06:06
Glad to hear I did not use officially offending words!  The model is from the UK, not American, so I wasn't sure if there were cultural differences on this topic.  If he writes again, I'll tell him there's a difference between an incorrect and a racist word, and if he's searching for incorrect keywords at Shutterstock, he'll find billions of them ...

There is nothing offensive about using the word afro.

Afterall if someone is "afro-caribbean" you use the word "afro"





Title: Re: Attacked because of a keyword - what can he do?
Post by: Justanotherphotographer on February 17, 2021, 06:23
Also agree you should just ignore it and move on. This kind of performative wokeness hurts no one as much as it hurts the people doing it. In fact it is often (but by no means always) a ploy by bad faith actors to make legitimate concerns seem frivolous.

My portfolio contains a large amount of diverse content and I can tell you that a sizeable percentage of buyers still use the term Afro American (about 20% of the people using “black”), so it is perfectly valid term for buyers with or without the hair style. Buyers should be using it in combination with “natural” and “hairstyle” and maybe some “NOT” clauses if they want to isolate just Afro hair (not sure if Shutterstock search uses boolean phrases, if not that’s on them not you).
Title: Re: Attacked because of a keyword - what can he do?
Post by: Justanotherphotographer on February 17, 2021, 06:30
Why are you even worried about this?


Well, I prefer discussing this with him through FB messaging and keep the discussion away from my studio clients.  If he keeps on being angry after my friendly reply, I will block him, but my first try is a nice and peaceful one.


Thanks for your suggestion about the corn rows - I looked them up, but that's not quite what my model's hair looks like.
Here's one of the shots of this series :
(https://image.shutterstock.com/image-photo/pretty-young-african-american-woman-600w-1419428528.jpg)

Would you call that afro hairstyle ?
That is not an afro hairstyle, those are braids
Title: Re: Attacked because of a keyword - what can he do?
Post by: Firn on February 17, 2021, 06:32
I don't think the person who complained was offended by the word "afro", like some seem to think. She was offended by the misuse of  it and thought it would imply that all african women had "afro" hair, when afro is the term for a certain hairstyle:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afro

The woman in that picture is not having afro hair. She is having braided hair.

It's sometimes a bit hard to understand what one person finds offensive and why, especially if it doesn't affect you. If someone mislabeled german hair as "blond hair" or whatever, I wouldn't feel offended by the possible implicaton that all German women had blonde hair, even though I don't, but people of ethnic groups that have suffered from discrimation are more sensitive to these things.

I think more problematic here is really that you tagged the picture with wrong keywords as there is no afro hair to be seen there. However, if you used the keywords "afro american woman" and "braided hair", at least on Shutterstock, the search for "afro hair" would have lead to the same results, so it doesn't really seem to matter?
Title: Re: Attacked because of a keyword - what can he do?
Post by: rene on February 17, 2021, 06:38
Probably any change you do it will be not be good for this person. He want to see you as a racist and never admit that the racist is him.
The only way to get "acceptable" keywords for him is to ask him to do this work by himself. Delegate this task. If he considere that "blond, hair, lesbian, chinese..." is more appropriated go for it. A logical discussion is not possible with idiots.
Title: Re: Attacked because of a keyword - what can he do?
Post by: ShadySue on February 17, 2021, 06:41
Interesting reading:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afro-textured_hair (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afro-textured_hair)
Title: Re: Attacked because of a keyword - what can he do?
Post by: Anyka on February 17, 2021, 06:43
I think more problematic here is really that you tagged the picture with wrong keywords as there is no afro hair to be seen there. However, if you used the keywords "afro american woman" and "braided hair", at least on Shutterstock, the search for "afro hair" would have lead to the same results, so it doesn't really seem to matter?


Great, that's what I should have replied to him! 
Title: Re: Attacked because of a keyword - what can he do?
Post by: qunamax on February 17, 2021, 06:47
You melted some snowflakes. Good job.
What you should do? Block the snowflake and forget about it.
Title: Re: Attacked because of a keyword - what can he do?
Post by: Sean Locke Photography on February 17, 2021, 10:00
I agree that that isn't what I'd expect if I searched on "afro", as I think in the US that typically refers to the sort of natural big hair style of the 70's.  But I wouldn't have been concerned about it enough to write.
Title: Re: Attacked because of a keyword - what can he do?
Post by: gnirtS on February 17, 2021, 11:07
Ignore this nonsense.  Just some cancel-culture keyboard warrior.

I know quite a few people with afro-hair.  They all refer to their hair as "my 'fro" or "my afro".

Its descriptive.  There's a trend these days to ban accurate, descriptive words.  Don't fall for it.
Title: Re: Attacked because of a keyword - what can he do?
Post by: stockastic on February 17, 2021, 11:49
Also agree you should just ignore it and move on. This kind of performative wokeness hurts no one as much as it hurts the people doing it. In fact it is often (but by no means always) a ploy by bad faith actors to make legitimate concerns seem frivolous.

My portfolio contains a large amount of diverse content and I can tell you that a sizeable percentage of buyers still use the term Afro American (about 20% of the people using “black”), so it is perfectly valid term for buyers with or without the hair style. Buyers should be using it in combination with “natural” and “hairstyle” and maybe some “NOT” clauses if they want to isolate just Afro hair (not sure if Shutterstock search uses boolean phrases, if not that’s on them not you).

"Performative wokeness".  Perfect.   Do you have copyright on this, or can I start using it?
Title: Re: Attacked because of a keyword - what can he do?
Post by: Justanotherphotographer on February 17, 2021, 12:22
Ignore this nonsense.  Just some cancel-culture keyboard warrior.

I know quite a few people with afro-hair.  They all refer to their hair as "my 'fro" or "my afro".

Its descriptive.  There's a trend these days to ban accurate, descriptive words.  Don't fall for it.

The only real issue is that the woman doesn't have afro hair in the photo. I would argue the keyword is still valid outside of the hair as people search for Afro American (and buyers almost never use hyphens or quotation marks).

The weird thing is the person jumping to "you're a racist" from Anyka getting the name of a hairstyle wrong.

Title: Re: Attacked because of a keyword - what can he do?
Post by: Justanotherphotographer on February 17, 2021, 12:29
Also agree you should just ignore it and move on. This kind of performative wokeness hurts no one as much as it hurts the people doing it. In fact it is often (but by no means always) a ploy by bad faith actors to make legitimate concerns seem frivolous.

My portfolio contains a large amount of diverse content and I can tell you that a sizeable percentage of buyers still use the term Afro American (about 20% of the people using “black”), so it is perfectly valid term for buyers with or without the hair style. Buyers should be using it in combination with “natural” and “hairstyle” and maybe some “NOT” clauses if they want to isolate just Afro hair (not sure if Shutterstock search uses boolean phrases, if not that’s on them not you).

"Performative wokeness".  Perfect.   Do you have copyright on this, or can I start using it?

Fill your boots up. "tokenism" and "dumb-dumb left" are there for you too if you want to use them. This kind of nonsense is a distraction from actual necessary concrete or systemic change and makes movements easy to mock, straw man or co-opt by people who just learn all the correct vocabulary and do nothing concrete.
Title: Re: Attacked because of a keyword - what can he do?
Post by: oooo on February 17, 2021, 14:11
Quote
The weird thing is the person jumping to "you're a racist" from Anyka getting the name of a hairstyle wrong.

absolutely


btw,
what are the expectations of creative directors for 0,1 ?
why not offer them 50% for doing the proper keywording
Title: Re: Attacked because of a keyword - what can he do?
Post by: stockastic on February 17, 2021, 16:41
Also agree you should just ignore it and move on. This kind of performative wokeness hurts no one as much as it hurts the people doing it. In fact it is often (but by no means always) a ploy by bad faith actors to make legitimate concerns seem frivolous.

My portfolio contains a large amount of diverse content and I can tell you that a sizeable percentage of buyers still use the term Afro American (about 20% of the people using “black”), so it is perfectly valid term for buyers with or without the hair style. Buyers should be using it in combination with “natural” and “hairstyle” and maybe some “NOT” clauses if they want to isolate just Afro hair (not sure if Shutterstock search uses boolean phrases, if not that’s on them not you).

"Performative wokeness".  Perfect.   Do you have copyright on this, or can I start using it?

Fill your boots up. "tokenism" and "dumb-dumb left" are there for you too if you want to use them. This kind of nonsense is a distraction from actual necessary concrete or systemic change and makes movements easy to mock, straw man or co-opt by people who just learn all the correct vocabulary and do nothing concrete.

Exactly.  This sort of play-acting just makes everything worse.  I associate with people who really don't know the real, complicated history of the issue - or much history at all, really.
Title: Re: Attacked because of a keyword - what can he do?
Post by: marthamarks on February 17, 2021, 16:46
This brouhaha makes me glad I mostly shoot critters.

Not a single wild burro I've ever photographed has come back to complain that I didn't call him/her a wild donkey.   :D
Title: Re: Attacked because of a keyword - what can he do?
Post by: Anyka on February 17, 2021, 17:06
This brouhaha makes me glad I mostly shoot critters.

Not a single wild burro I've ever photographed has come back to complain that I didn't call him/her a wild donkey.   :D


Haha, this one made my day!
Title: Re: Attacked because of a keyword - what can he do?
Post by: cascoly on February 17, 2021, 17:41
... I mostly shoot critters
and you haven't heard from PETA?
 
Title: Re: Attacked because of a keyword - what can he do?
Post by: EO on February 17, 2021, 17:45
Afro-textured maybe, but afro hair doesn't make sense to me for that photo. Those are braids in the US. I'd search for braids if I were looking for that photo. I'd search for afro if I were looking for a style like Viola Davis currently wears. Are you trying to describe a texture or a style? There's a difference (Afro/afro), which you can probably research if it's important enough to you.

Not touching the rest of this discourse with a ten foot pole and a hazmat suit on.

Title: Re: Attacked because of a keyword - what can he do?
Post by: cascoly on February 17, 2021, 17:48
Quote from: jerk
I spend hours looking for photos. and can't find them because of your complete race base labeling.

? they spent hours looking at your pix? or all pix s/he looked at were racist?
Title: Re: Attacked because of a keyword - what can he do?
Post by: marthamarks on February 17, 2021, 18:48
This brouhaha makes me glad I mostly shoot critters.

Not a single wild burro I've ever photographed has come back to complain that I didn't call him/her a wild donkey.   :D


Haha, this one made my day!

Glad I could cheer you up!

Take a look at a mom-and-youngun pair of wild burros in Nevada.
https://stock.adobe.com/images/two-wild-burros-an-adult-female-and-a-juvenile-at-dawn-on-a-prairie-in-nevada/300226682
Title: Re: Attacked because of a keyword - what can he do?
Post by: Evaristo tenscadisto on February 17, 2021, 20:07
"Please change your labeling of your photography on shutter stock as it is it is not even kinda racist.  You referring to a woman of color ...."

I just stop reading when SS called woman of "color".... LOL! You see In Europe, specially in Portugal, that is racist because we are educated that people don't actually have colors but they just different ethnicity. For instance here and in Spain "Negro" is the correct answer because Black is too much racist. you can find this in wiki too: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negro. But I know that is different in other cultures like USA where it seems Black is the right answer aside from Martin Luther King, Jr. called his own race as "Negro" in his famous "I Have a Dream" speech of 1963.

So it depends actually of the culture background. I know that "Afro Hair" is the exact term in Guinea West Africa since I lived there for a year. Also is the same word in Portugal. Probably is an offensive term in USA. In this case you should delete for something which can not give you so much trouble like "African Hair Style".
Title: Re: Attacked because of a keyword - what can he do?
Post by: Lina on February 17, 2021, 22:05
This brouhaha makes me glad I mostly shoot critters.

Not a single wild burro I've ever photographed has come back to complain that I didn't call him/her a wild donkey.   :D
You could be surprised. I was contacted once because of plant, someone insisted that I change the plant name or he will ask Shutterstock to remove my image. I refused,  image was still there when I deactivated my account last year.
Title: Re: Attacked because of a keyword - what can he do?
Post by: marthamarks on February 18, 2021, 03:04
This brouhaha makes me glad I mostly shoot critters.

Not a single wild burro I've ever photographed has come back to complain that I didn't call him/her a wild donkey.   :D
You could be surprised. I was contacted once because of plant, someone insisted that I change the plant name or he will ask Shutterstock to remove my image. I refused,  image was still there when I deactivated my account last year.

That's funny!

But at least it wasn't the plant that complained about your "unfair treatment."
Title: Re: Attacked because of a keyword - what can he do?
Post by: Horizon on February 18, 2021, 04:16
Good grief!  just tell him to bugger off!
Title: Re: Attacked because of a keyword - what can he do?
Post by: qunamax on February 18, 2021, 10:04
Ignore this nonsense.  Just some cancel-culture keyboard warrior.

I know quite a few people with afro-hair.  They all refer to their hair as "my 'fro" or "my afro".

Its descriptive.  There's a trend these days to ban accurate, descriptive words.  Don't fall for it.

The only real issue is that the woman doesn't have afro hair in the photo. I would argue the keyword is still valid outside of the hair as people search for Afro American (and buyers almost never use hyphens or quotation marks).

The weird thing is the person jumping to "you're a racist" from Anyka getting the name of a hairstyle wrong.

From where I come from, this exact style of hair is shortly called exactly "afro", a woman goes to a hair dresser and says "make me an afro" and this hair style is the result and I've seen lots of ads on facebook stating "cheap afro hair style, afro hair style specialist and so on".
I'm pretty sure in a lot of other Slavic countries it's known as "afro" and probably many more in Europe and Asia, so I think it's rather relevant keyword for this hair style. 
Title: Re: Attacked because of a keyword - what can he do?
Post by: WendyT on February 18, 2021, 20:41
Do a google search for "Afro Braids Hairstyle" and you will see exactly this type of hairstyle. I think the complainer is being rather literal and local-centric. Afro is a broad term, though I can see in some places it would be deemed offensive. Afro Hairstyle would cover a broad range of styles ...

My brain fails to compute the terms "black" and "people of color" when describing humans, very few people are truly "black" ad everyone is "colored" in some way ... sigh ... trying to be accurate can be very confusing.
Title: Re: Attacked because of a keyword - what can he do?
Post by: EO on February 18, 2021, 22:51

From where I come from, this exact style of hair is shortly called exactly "afro", a woman goes to a hair dresser and says "make me an afro" and this hair style is the result and I've seen lots of ads on facebook stating "cheap afro hair style, afro hair style specialist and so on".
I'm pretty sure in a lot of other Slavic countries it's known as "afro" and probably many more in Europe and Asia, so I think it's rather relevant keyword for this hair style.

Fascinating. What do Black women there ask for when they don't want braids, but they don't want it straight, just styled in its natural state?
Title: Re: Attacked because of a keyword - what can he do?
Post by: Dumc on February 18, 2021, 23:52
https://www.shutterstock.com/blog/how-we-show-it-black-hair (https://www.shutterstock.com/blog/how-we-show-it-black-hair)
Title: Re: Attacked because of a keyword - what can he do?
Post by: EO on February 19, 2021, 02:39
Cool article and mini collection. So many beautiful and unique styles. Shame they are all flattened to just afro hairstyle. Thanks for sharing!
Title: Re: Attacked because of a keyword - what can he do?
Post by: Dumc on February 19, 2021, 03:44
I just thought, it was funny, that this article came up ~2 days later after this thread started
Title: Re: Attacked because of a keyword - what can he do?
Post by: Anyka on February 19, 2021, 04:11
Well, I ended the story by blocking him, but only after he continued his "attack" and even talked about "going public" with a news article.  That did not impress me very much ... a newsarticle about a small Belgian photographer in a North Carolina newspaper on page 13 ?  Don't think my local clients will read that haha.
Anyway, I blocked him, but out of curiosity, I checked the images in Catalog Manager.  I never knew it was SO easy to change keywords or descriptions!!??  Changing "afro hair" into "braided hair" in the descriptions took me less than 3 minutes!
Title: Re: Attacked because of a keyword - what can he do?
Post by: Digital on February 19, 2021, 08:01
Learn how to block the noise, and your life will be filled with beautiful colors.
Title: Re: Attacked because of a keyword - what can he do?
Post by: Uncle Pete on February 19, 2021, 09:56
https://www.shutterstock.com/blog/how-we-show-it-black-hair (https://www.shutterstock.com/blog/how-we-show-it-black-hair)

OMG all this fuss over hair? What's the world coming to?

Well, I ended the story by blocking him, but only after he continued his "attack" and even talked about "going public" with a news article.  That did not impress me very much ... a newsarticle about a small Belgian photographer in a North Carolina newspaper on page 13 ?  Don't think my local clients will read that haha.
Anyway, I blocked him, but out of curiosity, I checked the images in Catalog Manager.  I never knew it was SO easy to change keywords or descriptions!!??  Changing "afro hair" into "braided hair" in the descriptions took me less than 3 minutes!


Wow someone off their nut. Good that you just blocked them and I hope all the support here has convinced you that you aren't racist or doing something wrong. Now if someone searches and you know how generalized keywords can be for buyers, your images won't be seen because of some meddlesome strange person.

Title: Re: Attacked because of a keyword - what can he do?
Post by: Opalescence on February 20, 2021, 15:03
I just stop reading when SS called woman of "color".... LOL! You see In Europe, specially in Portugal, that is racist because we are educated that people don't actually have colors but they just different ethnicity. For instance here and in Spain "Negro" is the correct answer because Black is too much racist. you can find this in wiki too: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negro. But I know that is different in other cultures like USA where it seems Black is the right answer aside from Martin Luther King, Jr. called his own race as "Negro" in his famous "I Have a Dream" speech of 1963.
SS automatically blocks "offensive" words in description. Not sure about keywords, didn't try after I got the angry red pop up message about Latin word "Nigra" being unacceptable. It wasn't even about a person, there's a 2000 years old Roman gate in German city of Trier that is called The Black Gate or in original Latin "Porta Nigra". I'm pretty sure people would search it by "Porta Nigra" as that's the most popular name, at least in this region. No other agency had any problem with the word.
Title: Re: Attacked because of a keyword - what can he do?
Post by: Evaristo tenscadisto on February 20, 2021, 18:47
SS blocks automatically a lot of things....

Personally i find this site behavior like a bot "being" a bot in almost everything.
i already see some companies here start to go more for adobe instead SS for video.  When i ask why there were a lot of reasons:  "no personal assistance" for some of purchases, licenses clearance specially for subscriptions, double payments, lack of feedback in time....

i smiled.   
Title: Re: Attacked because of a keyword - what can he do?
Post by: Gcarter08 on February 22, 2021, 07:19
Someone might have already mentioned this, but technically we wouldn't call or label that look as "afro". I wouldn't necessarily call that label racist, really just an inaccurate description. So if someone from our community was searching for that specific term afro, would likely skip over that result.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Attacked because of a keyword - what can he do?
Post by: oooo on February 22, 2021, 17:59
@Anyka:

Are you aware of that you ensure at ss this image can be used for sensitive use ?


In such cases there could be a BIG damage, you will pay the bill.
Title: Re: Attacked because of a keyword - what can he do?
Post by: Anyka on February 23, 2021, 03:27
@Anyka:
Are you aware of that you ensure at ss this image can be used for sensitive use ?


Yes, I am aware, thanks.
Title: Re: Attacked because of a keyword - what can he do?
Post by: DiscreetDuck on February 24, 2021, 17:04
.
Title: Re: Attacked because of a keyword - what can he do?
Post by: gillian vann on March 01, 2021, 05:33
Ignore this nonsense.  Just some cancel-culture keyboard warrior.

I know quite a few people with afro-hair.  They all refer to their hair as "my 'fro" or "my afro".

Its descriptive.  There's a trend these days to ban accurate, descriptive words.  Don't fall for it.
ignore it? 
Cancel Culture is the New Normal. It's gone beyond the keyboard i'm afraid.  maybe you haven't noticed it yet, but by the time you do, it'll be too late.
Title: Re: Attacked because of a keyword - what can he do?
Post by: thx9000 on March 01, 2021, 07:42
Wow, it seems that the lunatics are now running the asylum. No wonder it has become the new normal.
https://www.shutterstock.com/blog/how-we-show-it-black-hair (https://www.shutterstock.com/blog/how-we-show-it-black-hair)
When to expect the article about asian straight hair celebration?
Title: Re: Attacked because of a keyword - what can he do?
Post by: ShadySue on March 01, 2021, 08:41
Wow, it seems that the lunatics are now running the asylum. No wonder it has become the new normal.
https://www.shutterstock.com/blog/how-we-show-it-black-hair (https://www.shutterstock.com/blog/how-we-show-it-black-hair)
When to expect the article about asian straight hair celebration?

That article only refers to the African-American experience. That's extremely culturally limited. I doubt very much that the experience of e.g. African-Scots is remotely like that which the article references, far less Africans living in Africa.

I think that was the problem of the complainer in the OP.