Author Topic: Brain storming : What else we can do to be heard (Read 8710 times)

Rage · « **on:** June 16, 2020, 10:52 »

So while profile activation and deactivation will happen lets stay ahead of the curve and figure out how else we can get our point across to Shutterstock.

Some ideas seen till now
1. Contact buyers, suggest move to Adobe
2. Media - especially places that buyers frequent
3. Youtube, Insta influencers talking points
4. Spread the word on deactivations

We are supposed to be creative people, what else comes to mind

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jjneff · « **Reply #1 on:** June 16, 2020, 11:00 »

I like your direction on this. We do need to find out where the buyers are! We also need to highlight where they can go!

Mrblues101 · « **Reply #2 on:** June 16, 2020, 11:09 »

Continue complaining in the SS forum

I think that if the thread become massive (in negative replies) it could have some impact.

Rage · « **Reply #3 on:** June 16, 2020, 11:21 »

The bigger problem is that SS seems to be betting on all of us pouring energy initially and then getting tired and coming back to them like beaten sheep.

The question is how do we ensure we migrate money & spends to where it helps us also.
- App ratings influence buyers
- Honest reviews that SS keeps charging even after a subscription ends also moves them
- Lets also push the positive, how good Adobe/Pond5 is
- Maybe a dialogue with Adobe, Pond5 could help start a buyer referral scheme, I'm sure even the non active folks would push buyers there for a chance to earn (incidentally something SS did well)
- How do we stop being faceless to the buyers?

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Clair Voyant · « **Reply #4 on:** June 16, 2020, 11:25 »

Perhaps someone could write up a very short and concise request that we can all use via copy and paste and send this to any publication we see that uses a Shutterstock photo credit.

A short paragraph that requests the publication etc why they should not support Shutterstock and the damage that it is doing for creative content with a suggestion of other images distributors to use instead. contributor-friendly agencies that include Adobe Stock, Pond5, Dreamstime, Stocksy, Alamy as well as most rights-managed and many niche agencies. I'd also add Istock and Getty for a few reasons a)I am still exclusive and b)love them or hate them they do have a good selection of editorial which Stocksy and Adobe do not.

Jo Ann? Are you up for this?

For example, I saw an online story the other day https://biv.com/article/2020/06/paper-excellence-closing-mackenzie-pulp-mill that used a Shutterstock photo. If we emailed them with the short and sweet request to support "contributor-friendly" agencies for the sake of keeping content up to date and fresh.

I think if we all sent one common request that is professional and consistent maybe we'd get some traction on this.

Thoughts?

NeonRobot · « **Reply #5 on:** June 16, 2020, 11:37 »

Quote from: Rage on June 16, 2020, 10:52

So while profile activation and deactivation will happen lets stay ahead of the curve and figure out how else we can get our point across to Shutterstock.

Some ideas seen till now
1. Contact buyers, suggest move to Adobe
2. Media - especially places that buyers frequent
3. Youtube, Insta influencers talking points
4. Spread the word on deactivations

We are supposed to be creative people, what else comes to mind

Sent from my HD1901 using Tapatalk

First point is Wrong.
You have too much trust in adobe. They will do the same later on. Put my words in a frame.

As for ss, downvote every content and action they will make: markets, instagram, twitter, utube..

Les · « **Reply #6 on:** June 16, 2020, 11:39 »

Quote from: Mrblues101 on June 16, 2020, 11:09

Continue complaining in the SS forum

I think that if the thread become massive (in negative replies) it could have some impact.

Complaining on SS forum won't help. And many of those comments and threads will be sooner or later removed.
Keeping the buyers informed about the SS treatment of their contributors will be much more effective.

Firn · « **Reply #7 on:** June 16, 2020, 11:55 »

I still don't think we can get across to Shutterstock in any way. They made sure that they have more profit than before even if they lose millions of images and even potentially millions of sales, so they really have no reason to listen to us.
However, what I see as the only possible option that might change something is if we manage to get the message across not to Shutterstock, but to customers. If customers start purchasing from, for example, Adobe, everyone, expect for Shutterstock wins. We get better payment there and we don't miss out on sales on SS if the customer does not purchase on SS in the first place. And, if they lose enough customers, even SS might get the message eventually, though that should not be the main focus. The main focus should really be redirecting sales to other agencies.

Unfortunately I don't have any brilliant ideas about how to acomplish this. I know some photographers are active on social media, some have webpages and youtube channels and I know some have been using these methods to urge customers to purchase from other agencies. But I am not sure that customers are their main audience. Probably rather other contributors, but even if it just reaches a few customers, that might be a start. Every photographer, videographer or illustrator who works outside of stock and has to do with customers could also try to get the word around.
The aim from the Stock Coalition to make press releases regarding this matter is probably also a good step in the right direction, as long as they try to urge customers to purchase from other agencies as well, and don't just focus on protest on the contributor site.
I am not sure what else individual contributors, who don't have social media channels, can do regarding this matter, I just think if we somehow acomplish that a lot of customers turn away from SS, that's the only way we will be able to really hit them and do so without personal loss at the same time.

whtvr2 · « **Reply #8 on:** June 16, 2020, 12:12 »

Quote from: jjneff on June 16, 2020, 11:00

I like your direction on this. We do need to find out where the buyers are! We also need to highlight where they can go!

This is hard because everyone have a different agency of preference to suggest. And i only say "you can find me here and there" i do not promote any agency that tomorrow might also drop.

As a youtuber you know that even dislkes and negative commenting does in fact count positively as traffic. No harm.

I would suggest downvoting and commenting to all those SS guides on how to upload and succeed that can be found in Youtube, blogs, sites everywhere SS was promoted or mentioned as a good fair agency.

Especially everywhere active SS "become a contributor" referral links exist. SS didn't became a big pool of copycats and crap by clients refering artists to the agency but from "earn some easy money" guides.

Chichikov · « **Reply #9 on:** June 16, 2020, 12:49 »

People who live in New York City can go to the Empire State Building to protest...

Saurav · « **Reply #10 on:** June 16, 2020, 23:48 »

I feel most buyers do not care about contributors in general. Also, other agencies are also keeping a close watch on this, if SS wins they will also follow suit and lower royalties. In worst case scenario the low earning agencies like Dreamstime, Alamy, 123RF etc will become the next Unsplash or Pixabay.

Rage · « **Reply #11 on:** June 17, 2020, 01:54 »

Right. So the question we should be asking is what do buyers care about and what will influence them.

My guess is relevant updated content, good pricing, good buying experience (which SS seems to be bad on from all the reviews), being seen as supporting a social cause.

What do they fear? getting overcharged?

Please do shoot down or add to this list.

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images · « **Reply #12 on:** June 17, 2020, 03:17 »

The only way to get through to them is to breach the trust between them and buyers. I suggest everybody setting up fake accounts and then taking photos of random people who look like they have expensive lawyers and then upload those photos with fake MRs. It won't make us any money, but it could result in a fun sh**storm to watch.

Firn · « **Reply #13 on:** June 17, 2020, 03:43 »

Quote from: Saurav on June 16, 2020, 23:48

I feel most buyers do not care about contributors in general.

I agree, most probably don't. But I am sure some do, or, at least, don't care where they get their images from as long as it is not more expensive to them. I know for example from a SS contributor who works full time in an company that purchases from SS, he told them about the new royalities and asked them whether they would mind using a different agency and they agreed. I think as long as they don't have to pay more for the images (which is why I don't think Alamy is a good choice to try to redirect sales too. That, and some other issues I have with them.), it's all the same to them and most stock agencies have similar plans to offer to their customers, otherwise they would not be competitive.

The main problem with the new royalities seem really to be the huge yearly sub plans that are causing all the 0.10$ payments even at higher levels and I think, for now, there is not much we can change about that anyways, because these customers have yearly plans. They can't change to other agencies, even if they wanted to. But when their subscription plans run out, some might look into other options, compare prices, see where they can get the best deals, but also, the best images. And maybe, if we can get it stuck in their minds that Shutterstock treats their artsist like crap, that might at least consider looking at other agencies.

At Adobe, for example, a yearly plan with 750 images is 159,99€ per month.
At Shutterstock a yearly plan with 750 images is 199,00€ per month.

(At least these are the prices in Germany. I know they have different prics in different countries)
So, why should customers not switch to Adobe if it means better deals for them, better images (as Adobe never let in the mass of crap that SS let into their database, even though their standards also don't seem to be all that high) AND better payment for contributors. It's a win-win situation for contributors and customers and only Shutterstock loses. That's exactly what we want, so that's the word we need to spread around!
And, hopefully at some point Adobe will also accept all editorial content. It does not affect me much, but I know it's a big problem for contributors who do lots of editorial content and I think it's also one of the reasons that might keep potential customers away, who need this kind of content.

increasingdifficulty · « **Reply #14 on:** June 17, 2020, 04:25 »

Quote from: images on June 17, 2020, 03:17

The only way to get through to them is to breach the trust between them and buyers. I suggest everybody setting up fake accounts and then taking photos of random people who look like they have expensive lawyers and then upload those photos with fake MRs. It won't make us any money, but it could result in a fun sh**storm to watch.

That's your solution? To make life miserable for random innocent people who have nothing to do with this? I suppose you think they deserve it because they look rich?

Just as brilliant as joining a peaceful protest and destroying stores and neighborhoods who have nothing to do with what you're protesting against (or as someone else here suggested, make the lives of innocent neighbors unsafe by vandalizing property).

You really don't care about other people, you just want to watch the world burn.

There are many offensive words one can use here, but I'll let you pick your own.

Please think one step further, maybe even two steps further, next time a "brilliant" idea like this pops up.

Visualab · « **Reply #15 on:** June 17, 2020, 04:34 »

Quote from: Saurav on June 16, 2020, 23:48

I feel most buyers do not care about contributors in general. Also, other agencies are also keeping a close watch on this, if SS wins they will also follow suit and lower royalties. In worst case scenario the low earning agencies like Dreamstime, Alamy, 123RF etc will become the next Unsplash or Pixabay.

you right,customers don't care about contributors but they do care about what they need to buy...and now happens that they choose an image on ss and then realize that they can't buy it because the artist portfolio is deactivated...many artists are reporting mail from ss asking to reactivate the portfolio because a buyer want a picture from them..
This is a real pain for ss because as a buyer if i can't buy what i need and see in the library then i change agengy...

Mrblues101 · « **Reply #16 on:** June 17, 2020, 14:14 »

I have another idea...

Maybe several contributors are non-native english (as me) and maybe several of them also just dont speak english, we can create several posts in different languages and write in these languages posts in SS forum with specific link to the post in this forum that speak about the actions to do in specific language.

Rage · « **Reply #17 on:** June 17, 2020, 22:28 »

Quote from: Mrblues101 on June 17, 2020, 14:14

I have another idea...

Maybe several contributors are non-native english (as me) and maybe several of them also just dont speak english, we can create several posts in different languages and write in these languages posts in SS forum with specific link to the post in this forum that speak about the actions to do in specific language.

This makes a lot of sense, especially if these posts were also on facebook, twitter and everywhere else. Could be the reason we can't spread the word widely

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Jo Ann Snover · « **Reply #18 on:** June 18, 2020, 01:48 »

Some (most of?) these ideas are being discussed in the Coalition (name being decided!) Facebook group

https://www.facebook.com/groups/261369748434285/

For example, one person had made a list of buyers. There was also a list of publications to contact et.c

Rather than try and coordinate in two places, can those who want to help pick up the discussion there?

Rage · « **Reply #19 on:** June 18, 2020, 03:58 »

Sure Jo Ann, thr only problem was that this discussion was getting lost there in all the deactivation updates

The urgency is that while most will deactivate for a week or two what happens if SS does not respond at all. Some next steps are critical and need to be thought of and discussed. Else this will become one more slight that will get forgotten

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whtvr2 · « **Reply #20 on:** June 18, 2020, 06:42 »

Quote

For example, one person had made a list of buyers

Just wondering. Who gives clients contact details in order to be informed by a community? With all the reading i do there are many opportuniiets that if they get hands in this list will probably try to reach buyers for self promotion.

Not to sound negative, if trying to contact people why not reach past emploees of SS that could provide some accurate info with any respect to the whatever paper they have signed for sensitive data?

cobalt · « **Reply #21 on:** June 18, 2020, 06:58 »

The upload stream is down to 920 000 files a week, that is probably a 50% drop.

And the new uploads look ghastly.

I think to starve them of high quality new content for as long as possible, is in my opinion the only way to perhaps make ss come up with a better plan.

At the same time the quality and volume of the various competitors will go up.

Especially the professional buyers look very, very carefully at the new content.

A stream made of fresh low quality rubbish is not what they will pay money for.

Now imagine...if that upload stream drops another 30% to 600 000 a week...

It will really send a very, very clear message that it is not the number of „registered accounts“ that matters, but the current producers.

And how well organised we are.

I think every month the upload stream will keep falling, while on other agencies it will go up. Once producers hve stronger streams elsewhere, ss will get even less content.

It will never drop to nothing, but the uploads could drop down to the volume of maybe 123rf or even smaller agencies.

The Upload stream is the future of every stock house.

Let us see how ss HQ feels with an upload stream of 500 000....

zstoimenov · « **Reply #22 on:** June 18, 2020, 07:23 »

Keep in mind that storing the photos also costs them money. It is one thing to store quality photos that make you money and totally different when you store low quality photos that nobody wants.

Les · « **Reply #23 on:** June 18, 2020, 08:16 »

Quote from: cobalt on June 18, 2020, 06:58

Now imagine...if that upload stream drops another 30% to 600 000 a week...

Let us see how ss HQ feels with an upload stream of 500 000....

I don't think that the upload stream will keep dropping, since most disablers have already done so, so there won't be the same volume of disabled images reducing continuously the absolute number of new content. However, due to most new images being in the similar or junk category, the quality of total SS image inventory will drift lower and lower.

whtvr2 · « **Reply #24 on:** June 18, 2020, 08:28 »

Quote from: zstoimenov on June 18, 2020, 07:23

Keep in mind that storing the photos also costs them money. It is one thing to store quality photos that make you money and totally different when you store low quality photos that nobody wants.

A valid point for both sides. Us and SS.

Why don't we ask also as demands real curation on crap, dublication removal, opening tickets for copycats instead of got punished, AI to remove obvious spammy keywords, all those things we read and write for years that negatively affect the client experience? Even if SS roll back to our precious earnings. Oops that was "previous" earnings. Anyway, the whole SS structure is a mess. Why a client care if we got 10 or 30 cents when we mention nothing for a better service request for them?

douglas · « **Reply #25 on:** June 18, 2020, 08:57 »

Someone pointed to SS employee reviews on Glassdoor a week or so ago but I could not find a reference to Comparably

https://www.comparably.com/companies/shutterstock/ceo-rating

Mr Pavlovsky does not seem to be loved by his minions: as CEO bottom 5% in similarly sized companies in NY area and in USA generally.

After a minute or two a pop-up appears asking you to rate Shutterstock either as an employee or a customer.

Justanotherphotographer · « **Reply #26 on:** June 18, 2020, 09:23 »

Quote from: douglas on June 18, 2020, 08:57

Someone pointed to SS employee reviews on Glassdoor a week or so ago but I could not find a reference to Comparably

https://www.comparably.com/companies/shutterstock/ceo-rating

Mr Pavlovsky does not seem to be loved by his minions: as CEO bottom 5% in similarly sized companies in NY area and in USA generally.

After a minute or two a pop-up appears asking you to rate Shutterstock either as an employee or a customer.

Nice.

In the Bottom 5% of 541 Similar Sized Companies in the United States
In the Bottom 5% of 238 Nearby Companies in New York

What needs to change to make the company culture better?
CEO and the executive board needs to go.

What's going wrong and how can it be improved?
Transparency with our team and customers, better care of our contributors.

Also interesting looking at the Adobe VS shutterstock comparison

Women at Shutterstock rated their CEO a F
Diverse Employees at Shutterstock rated their CEO a F

Women at Adobe rated their CEO an A+
Diverse Employees at Adobe rated their CEO an A+

No surprise there given what we know about Stan Pavlovsky's world view based on his now deleted twitter likes

U11 · « **Reply #27 on:** June 18, 2020, 09:34 »

Quote from: Rage on June 16, 2020, 10:52

So while profile activation and deactivation will happen lets stay ahead of the curve and figure out how else we can get our point across to Shutterstock.

Some ideas seen till now
1. Contact buyers, suggest move to Adobe
2. Media - especially places that buyers frequent
3. Youtube, Insta influencers talking points
4. Spread the word on deactivations

We are supposed to be creative people, what else comes to mind

Sent from my HD1901 using Tapatalk

contact journalists who cover similar issues in different industries (Uber drivers as employees for example)
contact contributors who didn't pull the plug and ask them for any support they can provide

md9000 · « **Reply #28 on:** June 18, 2020, 15:57 »

newbielink:https://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Shutterstock-Reviews-EI_IE270840.0,12.htm?sort.ascending=false&filter.defaultEmploymentStatuses=false&filter.defaultLocation=false&filter.language=eng [nonactive]

Shutterstock has a Glassdoor page and actually replies to all of what employees write about them. There is a category for freelancers working with Shutterstock also and anyone can review SS and Stan ) Have fun

Jo Ann Snover · « **Reply #29 on:** June 18, 2020, 18:53 »

Quote from: douglas on June 18, 2020, 08:57

Someone pointed to SS employee reviews on Glassdoor a week or so ago but I could not find a reference to Comparably

https://www.comparably.com/companies/shutterstock/ceo-rating

Mr Pavlovsky does not seem to be loved by his minions: as CEO bottom 5% in similarly sized companies in NY area and in USA generally.

After a minute or two a pop-up appears asking you to rate Shutterstock either as an employee or a customer.

https://twitter.com/joannsnover/status/1269027677047930887

Rage · « **Reply #30 on:** June 20, 2020, 00:10 »

So things to do till now
1. App rating
2. Glassdoor reviews
3. Tweet/mail a publication/journalist
4. Reverse search image, tweet/mail them to not use shutterstock
5. Find a contributor in your nice, make them join

Will start some of these today, would request others to do this as well and spread the word.

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TG1112 · « **Reply #31 on:** June 20, 2020, 02:08 »

Shutterstock exploits its image providers by not paying them fair. It may be easier to get sympathy from buyers of images that value their brands highly. Those companies want to be safe in the photographer / illustrator has received a fair compensation.
Is it possible to point out that this is affecting the poorest people in the world, those who need to sell pictures for their survival have suddenly lost 2/3 of the payment?

Fair trade is a concept used for cocoa, among other things, so that the end customer knows that the agricultural worker has been paid fairly.

A boycott of Shuttersstock's customers can be effective. It will affect those companies financially as long as they buy images of Shutterstock, which will affect Shutterstock to review its business model.

This guy got his guitar broken during his flight with Unitied Airlines. He made a song and published it on Youtube and got media cover his case. First time I watch this video was during a customer services education session. His song had impact and still has.

"Guitar Guy" sings about United Airlines damaging Taylor guitar"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GT7LNIPeMis

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YGc4zOqozo

Justanotherphotographer · « **Reply #32 on:** June 20, 2020, 11:01 »

Quote from: Rage on June 20, 2020, 00:10

So things to do till now
1. App rating
2. Glassdoor reviews
3. Tweet/mail a publication/journalist
4. Reverse search image, tweet/mail them to not use shutterstock
5. Find a contributor in your nice, make them join

Will start some of these today, would request others to do this as well and spread the word.

Sent from my HD1901 using Tapatalk

Also reddit has several useful sub reddits for this sort of thing. Not only designer ones but also ones like "I am a total piece of s**t", maybe a post with photos of Stan and Jon and a caption "cut artists payments by 50%+ in the middle of a pandemic so they could pay themselves a massive dividend as controlling share holders".

Rage · « **Reply #33 on:** June 20, 2020, 11:23 »

That might help, reddit has been amazing at providing reach and support. I'm just surprised there isn't a microstock subreddit there

Care to start a post and share links here. We can chime in and push it up

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Chichikov · « **Reply #34 on:** June 23, 2020, 05:07 »

"What else we can do to be heard?"
The problem is not that they don't hear us…
The problem is that they don't want to answer us (and that's not going to change).

pics2 · « **Reply #35 on:** June 23, 2020, 09:50 »

good point

Justanotherphotographer · « **Reply #36 on:** June 23, 2020, 10:29 »

We don't need to be "heard" by Shutterstock. They are the enemy. We need to be heard by buyers, who have other better options to buy from and by fellow contributors who we need solidarity with to force Shutterstock to act. What needs to happen is that SS should not be able to post anywhere without having attention called to their misdeeds. Facebook, twitter whatever. Keep it coming.

If SS don't review their actions we need to move enough buyers elsewhere that we can leave SS, or force a change in management that will result in better conditions for us.

pics2 · « **Reply #37 on:** June 23, 2020, 10:32 »

Quote from: Justanotherphotographer on June 23, 2020, 10:29

We don't need to be "heard" by Shutterstock. They are the enemy. We need to be heard by buyers, who have other better options to buy from and by fellow contributors who we need solidarity with to force Shutterstock to act. What needs to happen is that SS should not be able to post anywhere without having attention called to their misdeeds. Facebook, twitter whatever. Keep it coming.

If SS don't review their actions we need to move enough buyers elsewhere that we can leave SS, or force a change in management that will result in better conditions for us.

We can't move buyers without help of agencies. It becomes annoying how Adobe silent is. Were they taken by surprise and still can't figure out what to do? At least Getty is sending promo emails with a link for exclusivity application. Will Adobe tell us what the plans are here? It looks like they don't want to make enemies with SS, how pathetic.

Justanotherphotographer · « **Reply #38 on:** June 23, 2020, 10:42 »

Quote from: pics2 on June 23, 2020, 10:32

Quote from: Justanotherphotographer on June 23, 2020, 10:29
We don't need to be "heard" by Shutterstock. They are the enemy. We need to be heard by buyers, who have other better options to buy from and by fellow contributors who we need solidarity with to force Shutterstock to act. What needs to happen is that SS should not be able to post anywhere without having attention called to their misdeeds. Facebook, twitter whatever. Keep it coming.

If SS don't review their actions we need to move enough buyers elsewhere that we can leave SS, or force a change in management that will result in better conditions for us.
We can't move buyers without help of agencies. It becomes annoying how Adobe silent is. Were they taken by surprise and still can't figure out what to do? At least Getty is sending promo emails with a link for exclusivity application. Will Adobe tell us what the plans are here? It looks like they don't want to make enemies with SS, how pathetic.

It could even be the case that AS had something similar planned that they have had to pull back on thanks to the s**t storm raised by SS. If so good.

None of these companies have our best interests at heart and we need to get organised and be ready to act, on this and the next time and the next.

One good thing about AS though is that the Stock business is a smaller part of the company with a big overlap with their main customer base (most of us are Adobe customers too). It could make them wary of doing too much harm on the stock side even if it means slightly less profit from that side.

pics2 · « **Reply #39 on:** June 23, 2020, 11:05 »

I agree. But, the problem is that Adobe is used to parasitize on SS role of the number one earner. Adobe, like the others too, never had to do anything to motivate contributors to produce content. The content was produced for SS and sent to other agencies by default. Now, if things change these other agencies, Adobe first, have to do something to motivate contributors to produce content. I'm not sure they are still up to that role.

Hildegarde · « **Reply #40 on:** June 23, 2020, 11:13 »

One public figure who writes all the time about issues like this is Robert Reich. If somehow we can get him to know the story of what SS is doing, he might spread the word.

zsooofija · « **Reply #41 on:** June 23, 2020, 12:02 »

Quote from: Rage on June 18, 2020, 03:58

Sure Jo Ann, thr only problem was that this discussion was getting lost there in all the deactivation updates

The urgency is that while most will deactivate for a week or two what happens if SS does not respond at all. Some next steps are critical and need to be thought of and discussed. Else this will become one more slight that will get forgotten

Sent from my HD1901 using Tapatalk

The forum on the Coalition's website will be functional very soon, it's a much better place to have organized discussions. https://stockcoalition.org/

WebSubstance · « **Reply #42 on:** June 23, 2020, 14:11 »

The idea to educate the buyers is one of the best. I remember that I stopped buying Nike products when I read the news about how the factories were run in Asia. I don't know if the other brands were better but I stop buying Nike products forever.

Everyone here who has a website could write their own blog article to educate buyers and guide them with the right info.

We just switched our small company monthly purchase account from SS to Adobe. We also buy images from Stocksy when client allows it.

Which other companies would you recommend that has fair commissions and fair prices for customer?

I'll put a request to have an article about this on our blog.

Thanks!

Mrblues101 · « **Reply #43 on:** June 23, 2020, 16:03 »

Quote from: WebSubstance on June 23, 2020, 14:11

The idea to educate the buyers is one of the best. I remember that I stopped buying Nike products when I read the news about how the factories were run in Asia. I don't know if the other brands were better but I stop buying Nike products forever.

Everyone here who has a website could write their own blog article to educate buyers and guide them with the right info.

We just switched our small company monthly purchase account from SS to Adobe. We also buy images from Stocksy when client allows it.

Which other companies would you recommend that has fair commissions and fair prices for customer?

I'll put a request to have an article about this on our blog.

Thanks!

We can look for a higher impact exposure too. We are a big community, maybe some one have some network with high impact magazine where an article could be published...

miketravels · « **Reply #44 on:** June 23, 2020, 17:33 »

Just an idea but is anyone contacting those that are still submitting content and inviting them to join the protest? Ie filter fresh content and then see who's still submitting? Sometimes on their profile you can see their website or social profiles. Of course they may not want to (which is their decision) but they may also not know about the coalition.

Seems 900k photos a week that Shutterstock are still getting isn't good. If almost everyone stopped submitting for a while as well as the disabled profiles that would have a big impact.

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HalfFull · « **Reply #45 on:** June 24, 2020, 06:20 »

It may or may not work... but I'd imagine Stockmarket News blogs, analysts would be interested to hear about the exodus due to the slashing of contributor income etc... if they feel this is to fund dividends, they'd know its not sustainable and the the future value of SS shares may not be a good investment.... that may hit them where it hurts... share price / wallet!

Justanotherphotographer · « **Reply #46 on:** June 24, 2020, 06:32 »

I don't use twitter. I just did a search on there for shutterstock and a lot of positive stuff comes up, you have to search boycottshutterstock to get the news.
Is this because people aren't also hash-tagging #shutterstock? (sorry I know this is dumb)

Rage · « **Reply #47 on:** June 24, 2020, 06:48 »

Quote from: Justanotherphotographer on June 24, 2020, 06:32

I don't use twitter. I just did a search on there for shutterstock and a lot of positive stuff comes up, you have to search boycottshutterstock to get the news.
Is this because people aren't also hash-tagging #shutterstock? (sorry I know this is dumb)

Most seem to be but there are a ton of probably paid tweeters posting link to their portfolios (most of which are empty) or random SS images just to keep the hashtag clean.

It helps if you search for Shutterstock and Boycottshutterstock and like all the relevant tweets or even retweet marking some buyer/media accounts

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Justanotherphotographer · « **Reply #48 on:** June 24, 2020, 06:52 »

Thanks for that. Don't know how twitter just passed me by

Chichikov · « **Reply #49 on:** June 26, 2020, 10:37 »

Funny idea... (maybe)

Even with the portfolio disabled, it is still possible to upload new images and they are reviewed/rejected (I tried).

So, what happens if we all make bad images, with a lot of noise, underexposed, etc. and each of us uploads 1000 or more?
Their inspector (or AI) will be very busy with... nothing

Okay, I need a rest… I know.

Justanotherphotographer · « **Reply #50 on:** June 26, 2020, 10:46 »

Quote from: Chichikov on June 26, 2020, 10:37

Funny idea... (maybe)

Even with the portfolio disabled, it is still possible to upload new images and they are reviewed/rejected (I tried).

So, what happens if we all make bad images, with a lot of noise, underexposed, etc. and each of us uploads 1000 or more?
Their inspector (or AI) will be very busy with... nothing

Okay, I need a rest… I know.

Bad idea. Pads their numbers. If you have free time get on social media and spread awareness instead.

tpack · « **Reply #51 on:** June 26, 2020, 11:33 »

Pull out completely from the Facebook platform and move to a self-hosted platform like forum on your own website.

I won’t be surprised if FB scans group discussions and shares relevant information with their major advertisers and then gags articles related to #boycottshutterstock as a result of that.

cascoly · « **Reply #52 on:** June 26, 2020, 16:30 »

Quote from: tpack on June 26, 2020, 11:33

Pull out completely from the Facebook platform and move to a self-hosted platform like forum on your own website.
...

how many visitors come to YOUR website every day?

Mantis · « **Reply #53 on:** June 26, 2020, 17:17 »

Quote from: douglas on June 18, 2020, 08:57

Someone pointed to SS employee reviews on Glassdoor a week or so ago but I could not find a reference to Comparably

https://www.comparably.com/companies/shutterstock/ceo-rating

Mr Pavlovsky does not seem to be loved by his minions: as CEO bottom 5% in similarly sized companies in NY area and in USA generally.

After a minute or two a pop-up appears asking you to rate Shutterstock either as an employee or a customer.

My guess is that he is short term. He was put in the position to pre SS to be sold/acquired. I have been there. Temporary CEO's are often put in place to foster the sale, which means get the books looking good, get the company a pretty as a picture (no pun intended) from an acquisition perspective. Once done, he's done, and walks away with a much bigger chunk of change than what is in his current compensation package. Everything that is happening just makes me think there is more to this move. It's short term thinking.

PokemonMaster · « **Reply #54 on:** June 27, 2020, 01:33 »

I think, we should notify the news agencies. Especially, the ones who use SS.

whtvr2 · « **Reply #55 on:** June 27, 2020, 02:04 »

Quote from: PokemonMaster on June 27, 2020, 01:33

I think, we should notify the news agencies. Especially, the ones who use SS.

News agencies to do what? A new subscription if not using SS? lol!!

gnirtS · « **Reply #56 on:** June 27, 2020, 06:20 »

Quote from: tpack on June 26, 2020, 11:33

Pull out completely from the Facebook platform and move to a self-hosted platform like forum on your own website.

Companies arent going to search 2000 different websites, each with a tiny selection of media to find what they want. They want everything, in one place, for one price. Thats how stock works.

And if you want to make a big stock site the prices in hardware,hosting, software development, security, legal and so on are absolutely vast. And when you've done that you still have a platform with less content than any of the competitors, no advertising and no market share. Good luck with that.
Microstock works because of bulk.

Quote

I think, we should notify the news agencies. Especially, the ones who use SS.

Why would they care? From their point of view, any change that allows them to get content as cheaply as possible is good. They aren't concerned with the background politics of how its created.

cathyslife · « **Reply #57 on:** June 27, 2020, 06:58 »

Quote from: Chichikov on June 26, 2020, 10:37

Funny idea... (maybe)

Even with the portfolio disabled, it is still possible to upload new images and they are reviewed/rejected (I tried).

So, what happens if we all make bad images, with a lot of noise, underexposed, etc. and each of us uploads 1000 or more?
Their inspector (or AI) will be very busy with... nothing

Okay, I need a rest… I know.

A better idea is to not play games. Delete your images at SS and close your account. Take your work elsewhere. Doing business with a company who has so little regard for you is a waste of your time and talent.

And actually, that already has been happening for months. The site was/is still being inundated with a lot of crappy images. Hundreds being uploaded at one time by one contributor/factory. SS doesn’t care. The numbers on paper to shareholders matter. But buyers matter, too, and if there is nothing good to buy, they’ll be gone. So will SS.

gnirtS · « **Reply #58 on:** June 27, 2020, 07:23 »

Quote from: cathyslife on June 27, 2020, 06:58

A better idea is to not play games. Delete your images at SS and close your account.

Nice idea but at the moment a lot of people cant afford to ditch a few hundred/thousand dollars a month just to make a point as there's very little work or income elsewhere for photo or video related jobs!
And most people *already* have their work elsewhere as well.

So a choice of a greatly reduced but still some income vs guaranteed $0 income from SS isnt a choice some people can make currently.

SS know this as well - their timing was perfect.

cathyslife · « **Reply #59 on:** June 27, 2020, 19:01 »

Quote from: gnirtS on June 27, 2020, 07:23

Quote from: cathyslife on June 27, 2020, 06:58
A better idea is to not play games. Delete your images at SS and close your account.

Nice idea but at the moment a lot of people cant afford to ditch a few hundred/thousand dollars a month just to make a point as there's very little work or income elsewhere for photo or video related jobs!
And most people *already* have their work elsewhere as well.

So a choice of a greatly reduced but still some income vs guaranteed $0 income from SS isnt a choice some people can make currently.

SS know this as well - their timing was perfect.

Those who need the money, won’t play the games, will they? So it stands to reason I wasn’t talking about people who need the money.

Rage · « **Reply #60 on:** June 28, 2020, 08:46 »

Actually the choice here is harder, sell on Shutterstock were sales volume has been higher but while the buyer pays the same amount you get a smaller fraction. Or move entirely to Adobe, Pond5 etc, build up volume again but each sale gets you a larger share.

Pure maths says that 10c at shutterstock vs 0.36 at Adobe means that you'll break even with one third the volume share at adobe. This is much higher for vids with the new sales averages.

Moving (and shutting off SS) makes sense long term as people switch to platforms that have good content. However short term the temptation is to stay on with already created content and leech off more money from SS but harm long term.

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cascoly · « **Reply #61 on:** June 28, 2020, 16:39 »

Quote from: Rage on June 28, 2020, 08:46

...

Pure maths says that 10c at shutterstock vs 0.36 at Adobe means that you'll break even with one third the volume share at adobe. This is much higher for vids with the new sales averages.
...

your (im)pure math breaks down. since most artists are ALREADY on adobe & other agencies, deleting SS is a LOSS of income, only made up (possibly) by an unlikely, massive volume increase on Adobe

there are other compelling reasons for leaving SS - increased $ from other agencies is not one of them

PokemonMaster · « **Reply #62 on:** June 29, 2020, 01:16 »

Quote from: whtvr2 on June 27, 2020, 02:04

News agencies to do what? A new subscription if not using SS? lol!!

News agencies to do their job - post news.
First, it's a worldwide boycott, when greedy company rips off Third-World people during pandemic. Isn't it a good headline?
Second, the company where agencies buy photos is not reliable anymore. SS started to accept literally everything to compensate the decrease of the base. A lot of accounts opened with stolen images. The Disney/Pixar pics on sale is not a harmless accident. It may be a huge problem if you bought and used it before it was deleted.

thx9000 · « **Reply #63 on:** June 29, 2020, 04:11 »

It may sound cynical but unless it's a racial or sexual issue the chances of the boycott gaining traction on mainstream media are slim to none.
Thousands of contributors getting ripped off is just normal business.

vectorsforall · « **Reply #64 on:** June 30, 2020, 03:09 »

https://stockcoalition.org/

Rage · « **Reply #65 on:** June 30, 2020, 11:14 »

These are the top investing funds that have money in shutterstock. Is there merit in marking them in all tweets, sending mails to support teams etc and give them a warning that this stock is about to lose the very product they sell.

There are a lot of people here, these funds might be money focussed but they all want consistent revenues, something that can't happen if contributors flee

https://www.morningstar.com/stocks/xnys/sstk/executive

Also maybe the other board of directors might be a little more smart to the problem

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Hildegarde · « **Reply #66 on:** July 01, 2020, 11:09 »

Article on WaPo ripe for comments
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/07/01/pay-cut-economy-coronavirus/

Notify other media like ProPublica?

Rage · « **Reply #67 on:** July 19, 2020, 00:45 »

Quote from: Rage on June 20, 2020, 00:10

So things to do till now
1. App rating
2. Glassdoor reviews
3. Tweet/mail a publication/journalist
4. Reverse search image, tweet/mail them to not use shutterstock
5. Find a contributor in your nice, make them join

Will start some of these today, would request others to do this as well and spread the word.

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Shutterstock has just gone into full head in sand ostrich mode. Silence, some random trolls, paid reviews and tweets and low quality image submissions

Time to implement some of these plans?

Can we all make twitter accounts and retweet all #BoycottShutterstock posts. It seems like a good way to get publications and bigger businesses to notice our problem.

Rather than harping about Shutterstock, maybe it's now time to just direct people to Adobe/pond5/microstock Coalition... Sort of give them a traffic boost

What other ideas should we start now?

Les · « **Reply #68 on:** July 20, 2020, 22:13 »

Quote from: Rage on July 19, 2020, 00:45

What other ideas should we start now?

Explain to people who are still uploading that they are very likely suffering from the Stockholm syndrome.

Quote

Stockholm syndrome is a psychological response. It occurs when hostages or abuse victims bond with their captors or abusers. This psychological connection develops over the course of the days, weeks, months, or even years of captivity or abuse.

With this syndrome, hostages or abuse victims may come to sympathize with their captives. This is the opposite of the fear, terror, and disdain that might be expected from the victims in these situations. Over the course of time, some victims do come to develop positive feelings toward their captors. They may even begin to feel as if they share common goals and causes. The victim may begin to develop negative feelings toward the police or authorities. They may resent anyone who may be trying to help them escape from the dangerous situation they’re in.

Many psychologists and medical professionals consider Stockholm syndrome a coping mechanism, or a way to help victims handle the trauma of a terrifying situation.

cascoly · « **Reply #69 on:** July 21, 2020, 16:45 »

Quote from: Les on July 20, 2020, 22:13

Quote from: Rage on July 19, 2020, 00:45

What other ideas should we start now?

Explain to people who are still uploading that they are very likely suffering from the Stockholm syndrome.

ad hominem

do you always insult the intelligence of those you disagree with?

Les · « **Reply #70 on:** July 21, 2020, 17:45 »

Quote from: cascoly on July 21, 2020, 16:45

Quote from: Les on July 20, 2020, 22:13
Quote from: Rage on July 19, 2020, 00:45

What other ideas should we start now?

Explain to people who are still uploading that they are very likely suffering from the Stockholm syndrome.

ad hominem

do you always insult the intelligence of those you disagree with?

No, I didn't mean it as an insult and I wasn't arguing with anybody. I brought up a completely new point of looking at this situation.
Ad hominem post would consist of a directed attack against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.
I didn't direct to any particular person, but rather to a position that uploading new images to SS makes an economic sense.

It was meant more as an explanation when the controlling party (in this case the SS) attempts the brainwash the captives (image contributors) that by staying loyal, working harder and keep uploading their images at reduced rates they can miraculously earn meaningful living. Simple arithmetic taking into consideration the expanded effort and projected income shows that this is not the case.

cascoly · « **Reply #71 on:** July 21, 2020, 18:05 »

Quote from: Les on July 21, 2020, 17:45

Quote from: cascoly on July 21, 2020, 16:45
Quote from: Les on July 20, 2020, 22:13
Quote from: Rage on July 19, 2020, 00:45

What other ideas should we start now?

Explain to people who are still uploading that they are very likely suffering from the Stockholm syndrome.

ad hominem

do you always insult the intelligence of those you disagree with?

No, I didn't mean it as an insult and I wasn't arguing with anybody.
Ad hominem post would consist of a directed attack against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.
I didn't direct to any particular person, but rather to a position that uploading new images to SS makes an economic sense.

It was meant more as an explanation when the controlling party (in this case the SS) attempts the brainwash the captives (image contributors) that by staying loyal, working harder and keep uploading their images at reduced rates they can miraculously earn meaningful living. Simple arithmetic taking into consideration the expanded effort and projected income shows that this is not the case.

ad hominem is focusing on the person(or group) rather than the issue itself; calling then stockholmers & brainwashed doesn't help the cause. besides, who are you to tell them what's 'meaningful'. most others here have made their case w/o resorting to attacks

everyone has the right to respect whatever their decision

Rage · « **Reply #72 on:** July 22, 2020, 02:31 »

Quote from: Les on July 20, 2020, 22:13

Quote from: Rage on July 19, 2020, 00:45

What other ideas should we start now?

Explain to people who are still uploading that they are very likely suffering from the Stockholm syndrome.

Quote
Stockholm syndrome is a psychological response. It occurs when hostages or abuse victims bond with their captors or abusers. This psychological connection develops over the course of the days, weeks, months, or even years of captivity or abuse.

With this syndrome, hostages or abuse victims may come to sympathize with their captives. This is the opposite of the fear, terror, and disdain that might be expected from the victims in these situations. Over the course of time, some victims do come to develop positive feelings toward their captors. They may even begin to feel as if they share common goals and causes. The victim may begin to develop negative feelings toward the police or authorities. They may resent anyone who may be trying to help them escape from the dangerous situation they’re in.

Many psychologists and medical professionals consider Stockholm syndrome a coping mechanism, or a way to help victims handle the trauma of a terrifying situation.

Absolutely, i think there are already a bunch of folks on twitter and facebook making that effort. Maybe it just needs a more persuasive argument

Suspect · « **Reply #73 on:** July 23, 2020, 00:48 »

Does anyone know what has happened to the Shutterstock forum? I can't post on it and I don't think anyone else can (just one fluke post yesterday on the Hummer Thread that got through but that's all in over 24 hours). It looks deliberate to me rather than a fault. New threads can't be started either. The only thing that you can do if you manage to log in is to up/down vote comments already there. Has Shutterstock suspended it due to negative comments?

cathyslife · « **Reply #74 on:** July 23, 2020, 08:04 »

Quote from: Suspect on July 23, 2020, 00:48

Does anyone know what has happened to the Shutterstock forum? I can't post on it and I don't think anyone else can (just one fluke post yesterday on the Hummer Thread that got through but that's all in over 24 hours). It looks deliberate to me rather than a fault. New threads can't be started either. The only thing that you can do if you manage to log in is to up/down vote comments already there. Has Shutterstock suspended it due to negative comments?

see this thread https://www.microstockgroup.com/shutterstock-com/looks-like-ive-been-banned-from-the-ss-forms/msg555117/#msg555117

Suspect · « **Reply #75 on:** July 23, 2020, 08:47 »

Thank you Cathyslife.

cathyslife · « **Reply #76 on:** July 23, 2020, 17:13 »

Quote from: Suspect on July 23, 2020, 08:47

Thank you Cathyslife.

You are welcome.

I went to the forum. I was able to read threads, but it looks like you have to create a second account to post? I wasn’t willing to do that. Did you always have to, or is that new, to weed out the riffraff (us) 😂? I haven’t been there in ages.

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