Author Topic: Cell Phone Pics Rejection (Read 909 times)

wds · « **on:** April 27, 2022, 07:43 »

Do folks find that SS "doesn't like" cell phone pics complaining about artifacts and focus? I used a recent high end Samsung and get mostly rejections. I understand that no cell phone can compete with larger sensor "real" cameras, but are other people seeing difficulty with cell phone pics being rejected for technical reasons?

Schadenfreude · « **Reply #1 on:** April 27, 2022, 09:30 »

You should try using a "real" camera and see if more of your pictures are accepted.

Zero Talent · « **Reply #2 on:** April 27, 2022, 09:36 »

Shoot raw, make cropped panoramas, and/or downsize before uploading.

offisapup · « **Reply #3 on:** April 27, 2022, 10:52 »

I shoot a lot of editorial with an iphone. I don't shoot RAW and take the jpeg straight off camera and upload and most of my pics get approved. The trick is to shoot in broad daylight. If the light is challenging, your smartphone definitely can't handle that.

wds · « **Reply #4 on:** April 27, 2022, 11:50 »

Quote from: offisapup on April 27, 2022, 10:52

I shoot a lot of editorial with an iphone. I don't shoot RAW and take the jpeg straight off camera and upload and most of my pics get approved. The trick is to shoot in broad daylight. If the light is challenging, your smartphone definitely can't handle that.

Yes, I think that was the problem. These shots were in more or less direct sunlight at an event....unavoidable.

cascoly · « **Reply #5 on:** April 27, 2022, 16:11 »

Quote from: wds on April 27, 2022, 11:50

Quote from: offisapup on April 27, 2022, 10:52
I shoot a lot of editorial with an iphone. I don't shoot RAW and take the jpeg straight off camera and upload and most of my pics get approved. The trick is to shoot in broad daylight. If the light is challenging, your smartphone definitely can't handle that.

Yes, I think that was the problem. These shots were in more or less direct sunlight at an event....unavoidable.

also, SS is really strict abut needing press credentials, even for 'events' where that isnt reasonable

bestravelvideo · « **Reply #6 on:** April 28, 2022, 02:24 »

I am using Samsung S21 and soon buying S22, but have also used two iPhone 13 Pro Max friends have for comparison.
In both the iPhone and the Samsung, RAW pics are way better than their Jpeg version.
Personally I find that Samsung has an advantage due to to its highest resolution, being 64 or 50 Megapixels (latest model), despite some suggesting it is interpolated.
I find it better to shoot in full resolution, which is only Jpeg and scale down than shoot RAW with the Samsung at 12 Megapixels.
What always works for me is to denoise with Topaz AI and then scale down to 12 or 8 Megapixels.
In Topaz, you have to play with the various profiles to get the best results.
DxO does not recognise the latest phones, so Deep Denoising does not work and Photoshop does not give a good denoising result.
This gets my daily outdoors pics accepted.
Otherwise, if not using the big resolution, as I already said always shoot RAW in the 12 Megapixels resolution and denoise.
Then inspect the finished pic at 200%, prior to uploading.
The Jpeg usually has much compression, compared to one derived from RAW.

wds · « **Reply #7 on:** April 28, 2022, 07:25 »

Quote from: bestravelvideo on April 28, 2022, 02:24

I am using Samsung S21 and soon buying S22, but have also used two iPhone 13 Pro Max friends have for comparison.
In both the iPhone and the Samsung, RAW pics are way better than their Jpeg version.
Personally I find that Samsung has an advantage due to to its highest resolution, being 64 or 50 Megapixels (latest model), despite some suggesting it is interpolated.
I find it better to shoot in full resolution, which is only Jpeg and scale down than shoot RAW with the Samsung at 12 Megapixels.
What always works for me is to denoise with Topaz AI and then scale down to 12 or 8 Megapixels.
In Topaz, you have to play with the various profiles to get the best results.
DxO does not recognise the latest phones, so Deep Denoising does not work and Photoshop does not give a good denoising result.
This gets my daily outdoors pics accepted.
Otherwise, if not using the big resolution, as I already said always shoot RAW in the 12 Megapixels resolution and denoise.
Then inspect the finished pic at 200%, prior to uploading.
The Jpeg usually has much compression, compared to one derived from RAW.

Thanks for the informative response! What app do you use on the Samsung phones to shoot RAW?

wds · « **Reply #8 on:** April 28, 2022, 07:45 »

Never mind....found how to save RAW. I will try thanks!

Just tried it, yes, much more natural looking and flexible results...jpg's have terrible oversharpening. Now I just have to figure out why only two of the three camera/lenses are available in RAW pro mode.

Zero Talent · « **Reply #9 on:** April 28, 2022, 09:37 »

Quote from: bestravelvideo on April 28, 2022, 02:24

I am using Samsung S21 and soon buying S22, but have also used two iPhone 13 Pro Max friends have for comparison.
In both the iPhone and the Samsung, RAW pics are way better than their Jpeg version.
Personally I find that Samsung has an advantage due to to its highest resolution, being 64 or 50 Megapixels (latest model), despite some suggesting it is interpolated.
I find it better to shoot in full resolution, which is only Jpeg and scale down than shoot RAW with the Samsung at 12 Megapixels.
What always works for me is to denoise with Topaz AI and then scale down to 12 or 8 Megapixels.
In Topaz, you have to play with the various profiles to get the best results.
DxO does not recognise the latest phones, so Deep Denoising does not work and Photoshop does not give a good denoising result.
This gets my daily outdoors pics accepted.
Otherwise, if not using the big resolution, as I already said always shoot RAW in the 12 Megapixels resolution and denoise.
Then inspect the finished pic at 200%, prior to uploading.
The Jpeg usually has much compression, compared to one derived from RAW.

Samsung S22 Ultra (Qualcomm chipset) here.

I don't think that a downsized max-res Jpeg (108Mpix in my case) can be better than a properly processed, pixel binned RAW photo with the same end resolution.
BTW, the original high-res is not interpolated. Instead, the RAW file is pixel-binned, in other words, a raw pixel is a cluster of elementary pixels. A binned pixel is almost the same as the larger pixel, hence able to receive more light with less noise.

As you mentioned JPEGs are usually overprocessed, over-compressed and a lot of information is discarded. You only see the tip of the iceberg.
When downsizing that information is still lost. You will see the tip of a smaller iceberg.

On the other hand, the RAW file is allowing to see ALL the iceberg, not just the tip.

If your downsized JPEG looks better than a pixel-binned RAW file, maybe the way you process the RAW file is not optimal. You should always be able to achieve externally at least as much as what the camera is able to do internally because both methods are using the same input.

bestravelvideo · « **Reply #10 on:** April 28, 2022, 10:13 »

In my case the downscaling seems to hide imperfections, that is why I use it.
If I am to shoot 12 Megapixels, I naturally prefer the RAW.
Two more things:
I have to buy the S22 to know but on S21 you can download an external apk, Samsung Expert RAW, that does all the tricks like pixel bining.
The drawback is that it is meaningless to use it on a moving subject, as you have to hold the phone still more time.
Expert RAW is supposed to save 16-bit instead of 12-bit RAW, which is an advantage, even compared to to other phones.
Finallly, at night if using a small tripod, an easy way to take long exposures is as follows:
Use the manual settings (Pro mode) go to maybe ISO-100 and try a longer exposure (going up to 30 seconds).
The problem is that if you choose like 4 or more seconds you do not have a preview of the final result brightness.
This can be easily achieved by trusting the EVF, despite the lack of proper preview.
You try the setting of using more seconds untill you see the EVF going to zero, not going left or right (underexposed or burned).
Not an ideal suggestion, rather a practical one.

A technical detail about sensor sizes:
Samsung S22 Ultra:1/1.33"
Samsung S22: 1/1.56"
iPhone 13 Pro Max: 1/1.65"
Samsung S21: 1/1.76"
iPhone 13: 1/1.9"

Although these are many times smaller even compared to a 4/3 one, if we only see numbers, not final quaility, S22 Ultra has the biggest sensor.

The Xiamomi Mi 11 Ultra has a bit bigger sensor though, at 1/1.28".

Zero Talent · « **Reply #11 on:** April 28, 2022, 10:26 »

Quote from: bestravelvideo on April 28, 2022, 10:13

In my case the downscaling seems to hide imperfections, that is why I use it.

Yes, you hide the imperfections seen on the "tip of the iceberg".
But the same "tip of the iceberg" (with the same end dimensions) obtained from a properly processed pixel-binned RAW file must be at least as good as a downsized JPEG "tip of the iceberg" because both methods use the same input, while one is lossy (JPEG), and the other is lossless (RAW).

The only case when the high-resolution JPEG method is preferable is when you really need more than 12Mpix resolutions.
In this case, the imperfections coming from a more noisy algorithm + imperfections from the lossy Jpeg compression may be fewer than the imperfections of a perfectly processed RAW file ran through an upscaling algorithm.

Astrantia · « **Reply #12 on:** April 30, 2022, 02:43 »

Using a Sony mobile my pics nearly all get rejected with Adobe and other agencies. No chance.
So I either have to carry the heavy Sony 7Rii with me all the time or no photos for selling can be taken....

wds · « **Reply #13 on:** April 30, 2022, 11:59 »

Quote from: Astrantia on April 30, 2022, 02:43

Using a Sony mobile my pics nearly all get rejected with Adobe and other agencies. No chance.
So I either have to carry the heavy Sony 7Rii with me all the time or no photos for selling can be taken....

Can your Sony shoot RAW?....it can make a difference vs. phone jpeg

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Author Topic: Cell Phone Pics Rejection (Read 909 times)

wds

Schadenfreude

Zero Talent

offisapup

wds

cascoly

bestravelvideo

wds

wds

Zero Talent

bestravelvideo

Zero Talent

Astrantia

wds

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