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Poll

On Shutterstock, how many images do you need to earn $10,000 month

5,000
23 (6.7%)
7,500
9 (2.6%)
10,000
13 (3.8%)
12,500
5 (1.5%)
15,000
10 (2.9%)
17.500
11 (3.2%)
20,000
37 (10.8%)
22,500
2 (0.6%)
25,000
13 (3.8%)
27,500
0 (0%)
30,000
36 (10.5%)
32,500
5 (1.5%)
35,000
6 (1.7%)
37,500
4 (1.2%)
40,000
170 (49.4%)

Total Members Voted: 318

Author Topic: How many images do you need to achieve $10,000/month  (Read 55935 times)

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« Reply #50 on: October 03, 2014, 16:54 »
0
As I recall, and I haven't gone back to check, the injunction is against releasing information that has come into our possession as a result of our membership of the site that would not be known to the general public. I don't recall anything being said about it being okay to release info as long as it is not classed as "detailed sales data".  Perhaps SS can clarify this.

Scott made a good reply in the TOS thread, stating Again, the spirit of the clause is to prevent the disclosure of specific information to competitors of Shutterstock.   
[/quote]

aw hell, this is leaf's forum. he has the carte blanc . scott can be lobo on his own site. 8)


« Reply #51 on: October 04, 2014, 02:16 »
+5

Scott made a good reply in the TOS thread, stating Again, the spirit of the clause is to prevent the disclosure of specific information to competitors of Shutterstock.   

aw hell, this is leaf's forum. he has the carte blanc . scott can be lobo on his own site. 8)
[/quote]

Yeah, and Scott can throw you off SS if he feels like it, just like leaf can throw you off MSG. My only worry is that being thrown off SS would hurt more.

The post Leaf pasted makes it obvious (to me, at least) that this thread "could" be a violation of the SS TOS.  If "I earned $1,000 on SS last month" could be a violation of the TOS, then so could "It takes me x-thousand images to earn $1,000 on SS", particularly when people can go back to your portfolio and see how many images you have (and, therefore, how much you earned last month).

Maybe I'm paranoid but I don't want to accidentally get myself bumped off the one site that is still really good for me.  Also, I have heard from one person who got a caution from SS for posting what appeared to be innocuous information.

OM

« Reply #52 on: October 04, 2014, 07:30 »
0
I would need 18,000 to 20,000 images, but I don't think it would work that way. I think your return per image drops some as you add more. How much of a drop would be really hard to figure out. Not to mention, sales on Shutterstock aren't as consistent as they used to be. I used to be able to know almost exactly how many sales I would get on a weekday. Now it's up and down more.

Also, I'm a zero budget shooter "polluting the library."

Yep! Extrapolating wildly from my <500 images on SS, I would need 12,500 images there to make $10,000/month...but as you say, it probably doesn't work that way!  :D

BTW. There is a recent post on SS forum which would indicate (by extrapolation) that one contributor there could derive $10K/month income from around $5K images.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2014, 07:45 by OM »

« Reply #53 on: October 04, 2014, 08:14 »
+3
I think if it was realistically possible for a single artist to regularly achieve 10 000 dollars from 5k photo files we would be reading about a lot of cases here. The stock community has unusually talented and hard working people.

The fact that most people are expecting to need 20k -40k images and dont have portfolios this size, makes it clear that the single artist does not see this as a reasonably achievable option. (unless they are stock god clooney level ;)  )

I would also be very sceptical if people talk about "theoretical" portfolios. If it is possible to do it with 5k files, why not just do it?

SS is a great agency and they do what they do very well. But it doesnt look like the community is expecting SS to be an agency that you can make a full time working living on including paying for models, studio equipment and maybe a little help if you have a larger shoot. At least not if you are a single artist.

But they clearly are the biggest agency in a group of companies people supply.

So maybe the next question would be - how many files do you need as an indie artist to make 10k every month reliably and on how many agencies would these files need to be spread?
« Last Edit: October 04, 2014, 08:17 by cobalt »

« Reply #54 on: October 04, 2014, 09:26 »
+4
I would need 18,000 to 20,000 images, but I don't think it would work that way. I think your return per image drops some as you add more. How much of a drop would be really hard to figure out. Not to mention, sales on Shutterstock aren't as consistent as they used to be. I used to be able to know almost exactly how many sales I would get on a weekday. Now it's up and down more.

Also, I'm a zero budget shooter "polluting the library."

Yep! Extrapolating wildly from my <500 images on SS, I would need 12,500 images there to make $10,000/month...but as you say, it probably doesn't work that way!  :D

BTW. There is a recent post on SS forum which would indicate (by extrapolation) that one contributor there could derive $10K/month income from around $5K images.

Also, using just total images is a bit flawed. It would depend on how many similars you have. There's a difference between 10,000 total images and 10,000 individually different concepts.

« Reply #55 on: October 04, 2014, 09:32 »
+8
I'll have to see what data we can externalize and how specific I can get, but based on what we see in practice -- I'll make the general point that very small portfolios can have very high earnings and vice-versa.  It often depends on what content you create and how you create it.   

Vector compilations, high-quality model-released shots, conceptual photo illustration, etc., often outperform the average on a per-image basis; "hyperlocal" editorial (a local parade), street photography, or everyday found objects are not going to have the same volume of downloads per image --- that is,
unless they've got commercial value (i.e., they fill a content gap) -or- they're better than other images of the same type, etc.  That doesn't mean that they're not going to generate earnings - it just means that you would need more diversity and to think about exceptionalism and quality to achieve the same results.   

I know this seems pretty obvious, but I often talk about how we'll look at individual images and images with similar subject matter and they can perform very differently based on composition, styling, retouching, quality keywording, accuracy, etc.   Sometimes surprisingly so. That's great news, because it suggests that there's quite a bit under an individual artist's control to increase their quantity of downloads even if you had the exact same models, cameras, and location as the artist next to you.  While not the entire picture, the issue then becomes education, which is something we're making increasing investments in to help contributors understand which image and video qualities drive the most downloads.

For example, take an image of a child getting an injection from a doctor.  Is the child looking at the camera, at the doctor, or away?  Is the doctor wearing accurate, protective gloves?  Where is the center of focus?  The child?  The doctor?  The syringe?  Is there room for text?  Is the color palette based on bright colors or pastels?  Is the shot being administered in a home, office, or hospital? Is there professional medical equipment in the background? What color are the scrubs?  Is the doctor's protective clothing applied correctly? Does the setting look North American, European, or Asian? Does the scene, lighting, etc..., look natural or manufactured?

The "popular" search sometimes isn't a good proxy for identifying these important attributes, because a major Pharma company paying $400 per image for (4) images for a corporate report is going to have different expectations than a freelance web designer creating a website for a local doctor's office, but these details can definitely matter in terms of overall revenue performance. 


Best,

Scott
VP of Content
Shutterstock


« Last Edit: October 04, 2014, 09:42 by scottbraut »

« Reply #56 on: October 04, 2014, 09:43 »
+1
I am sure somebody on the level of Lisegagne, Sean, or the high quality studios, where many people bring in their expertise etc...can do it.

But like others have pointed out, these are unusually talented people. Or groups of people.

We can try to become as good as they are, or just try to improve our work significantly, but I think what many people wonder -  can the normal, reasonably talented stock artist do it.

And since people are working really hard already and have been doing it for years, there is enough data in the community/friends to get an idea how much can I reasonably make.

Like someone said, the superstars are not the metric I can use. Or only to see what is the total maximum possible on an agency and then I tell myself...well I think I usually make 3 % of what Yuri makes...so I hope to make XYZ on SS.

Again, you guys have a fantastic agency. We just have to work with more than just SS for now.


Tror

« Reply #58 on: October 04, 2014, 10:23 »
+1

I'd respectfully disagree on at least one point. ;D 

Hahaha, good one  :D I think you just would have to offer some sort of material exclusivity to achieve that and competitors would run dry soon  :P

« Reply #59 on: October 04, 2014, 10:29 »
+2
Yes, higher per average sales price would do it. So there is also homework to do for SS :)

« Reply #60 on: October 04, 2014, 14:26 »
+4

Take the syringe example.  A pair of latex gloves  might be something people already have in their closet - there's little incremental cost.  But it could be the difference between a Pharma company licensing your image for $400 or a website designer licensing it for $10.  I've seen images where the choice of depth-of-field made the difference in what image was selected.  Cost and talent: negligible. 

All great news!  But I get that the thread is about opinions on expectations and averages.  :)

Best,

Scott

Latex gloves are good example.  They are no longer found in use in most hospital or Dr office because of latex allergy.  You will need the newer plastic medical gloves if you want accuracy.  Most don't have tgese lying around the house.   If you just shoot with latex cause its in your cupboard, instead of taking time to research and get proper materials, your photo is of limited use.

« Reply #61 on: October 04, 2014, 14:59 »
+4

Latex gloves are good example.  They are no longer found in use in most hospital or Dr office because of latex allergy.  You will need the newer plastic medical gloves if you want accuracy.  Most don't have tgese lying around the house.   If you just shoot with latex cause its in your cupboard, instead of taking time to research and get proper materials, your photo is of limited use.

Soooooo knew that was coming, but didn't bother to change that reference.  :D :D :D   But yes, you're right, and the point is the same.  It doesn't matter if it's nitrile, latex, etc... -- we talk to a lot of creative directors and image buyers, who say, "it's great - you have tons of musician images, but artists / models need to careful attention to the proper way to hold the instrument. That's the image we'll buy."  :)

Best,

Scott
« Last Edit: October 04, 2014, 15:04 by scottbraut »

Rinderart

« Reply #62 on: October 04, 2014, 15:44 »
0
I'll make the general point that very small portfolios can have very high earnings and vice-versa.  It often depends on what content you create and how you create it.


   
Very good discussion. About the poll and I do agree with scott, I personally know quite a few folks that make VERY good money with 800 Images and I also Know some with 10,000 that are hurting badly. It has been and will always be....About the Image and telling the real story about whatever concept it is.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2014, 15:49 by Rinderart »

ruxpriencdiam

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« Reply #63 on: October 04, 2014, 16:13 »
0
Latex gloves are still widely used by the medical field all around here and if you or they are allergic to latex then they wear the other non latex vinyl or the non latex Nitril, it all depends.

These are also widely used in other specialty fields other then the medical industry as well.

« Reply #64 on: October 04, 2014, 20:51 »
0
Latex gloves are still widely used by the medical field all around here and if you or they are allergic to latex then they wear the other non latex vinyl or the non latex Nitril, it all depends.

These are also widely used in other specialty fields other then the medical industry as well.
Interesting, our local fire department just dumped their entire stock of latex gloves as "no longer suitable for use" and replaced them with non-latex.  The directive to do so came down from higher, so I thought that it was a national thing, guess not.

« Reply #65 on: October 04, 2014, 20:53 »
+1
Quote
For example, take an image of a child getting an injection from a doctor.  Is the child looking at the camera, at the doctor, or away?  Is the doctor wearing accurate, protective gloves?  Where is the center of focus?  The child?  The doctor?  The syringe?  Is there room for text?  Is the color palette based on bright colors or pastels?  Is the shot being administered in a home, office, or hospital? Is there professional medical equipment in the background? What color are the scrubs?  Is the doctor's protective clothing applied correctly? Does the setting look North American, European, or Asian? Does the scene, lighting, etc..., look natural or manufactured?
You are making my head hurt.  Can't we just go back to shooting apples on white? </joking>

Photominer

« Reply #66 on: October 04, 2014, 21:13 »
+2
I'll make the general point that very small portfolios can have very high earnings and vice-versa.  It often depends on what content you create and how you create it.

And also how much it costs to get the shot. For a niche shooter like me, it can take a long, long time to see a profit if costs are not minimal for rare photos that no one else has. In one of my niches, I spent an entire day shooting an extremely rare collection that I had a one time offer to photograph. One of a kind stuff that cost me time and money (and lost income from my day job) to get access to. I have to sit on them until I can find a place to sell them at a price where I can make enough to offset the cost. I'm not willing yet to give them away for sub prices.


Dook

« Reply #67 on: October 05, 2014, 05:43 »
+1
I'll make the general point that very small portfolios can have very high earnings and vice-versa.  It often depends on what content you create and how you create it.

And also how much it costs to get the shot. For a niche shooter like me, it can take a long, long time to see a profit if costs are not minimal for rare photos that no one else has. In one of my niches, I spent an entire day shooting an extremely rare collection that I had a one time offer to photograph. One of a kind stuff that cost me time and money (and lost income from my day job) to get access to. I have to sit on them until I can find a place to sell them at a price where I can make enough to offset the cost. I'm not willing yet to give them away for sub prices.
Why did you shoot them at the first place? If you are microstock shooter and if you are not willing to sell them at microstock? You could just skip that job.
I know, it was a risk that will maybe pay off. But, me, I'm not for risky jobs anymore.

ruxpriencdiam

    This user is banned.
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« Reply #68 on: October 05, 2014, 09:12 »
0
Latex gloves are still widely used by the medical field all around here and if you or they are allergic to latex then they wear the other non latex vinyl or the non latex Nitril, it all depends.

These are also widely used in other specialty fields other then the medical industry as well.
Interesting, our local fire department just dumped their entire stock of latex gloves as "no longer suitable for use" and replaced them with non-latex.  The directive to do so came down from higher, so I thought that it was a national thing, guess not.
This I could see with the fire dept since they are in contact with people in life threatening situations and you don't have time to find out if they are allergic to latex or not.


Photominer

« Reply #69 on: October 05, 2014, 11:36 »
0
Why did you shoot them at the first place? If you are microstock shooter and if you are not willing to sell them at microstock? You could just skip that job.
I know, it was a risk that will maybe pay off. But, me, I'm not for risky jobs anymore.
I shot them because it was a one-time offer that won't come again, and I am a photographer before I am a microstocker. While I have my niche primarily on micro, I have about 10x the photos that I haven't decided yet what to do with. I will likely just offer them on my own website.

« Reply #70 on: October 05, 2014, 12:21 »
+2
Why did you shoot them at the first place? If you are microstock shooter and if you are not willing to sell them at microstock? You could just skip that job.
I know, it was a risk that will maybe pay off. But, me, I'm not for risky jobs anymore.
I shot them because it was a one-time offer that won't come again, and I am a photographer before I am a microstocker. While I have my niche primarily on micro, I have about 10x the photos that I haven't decided yet what to do with. I will likely just offer them on my own website.

Maybe try 500px prime. At least you get $175 for nonexclusive.

« Reply #71 on: October 05, 2014, 12:26 »
0
Latex gloves are still widely used by the medical field all around here and if you or they are allergic to latex then they wear the other non latex vinyl or the non latex Nitril, it all depends.

These are also widely used in other specialty fields other then the medical industry as well.
Interesting, our local fire department just dumped their entire stock of latex gloves as "no longer suitable for use" and replaced them with non-latex.  The directive to do so came down from higher, so I thought that it was a national thing, guess not.
This I could see with the fire dept since they are in contact with people in life threatening situations and you don't have time to find out if they are allergic to latex or not.
Yeah, that makes sense.  My son is a volunteer FF, first responder and he had to go through all his kit and go bags & remove anything latex.

Photominer

« Reply #72 on: October 05, 2014, 13:17 »
0
Why did you shoot them at the first place? If you are microstock shooter and if you are not willing to sell them at microstock? You could just skip that job.
I know, it was a risk that will maybe pay off. But, me, I'm not for risky jobs anymore.
I shot them because it was a one-time offer that won't come again, and I am a photographer before I am a microstocker. While I have my niche primarily on micro, I have about 10x the photos that I haven't decided yet what to do with. I will likely just offer them on my own website.

Maybe try 500px prime. At least you get $175 for nonexclusive.
Cool, I'll take a look.

« Reply #73 on: October 05, 2014, 13:31 »
+7
Some very interesting posts and points here, but unfortunately this kind of conversation doesn't lead anywhere.
"Achieving $10,000/month" implies there is some sort of stability where there is none. Bestselllers die or are killed by search engine changes.

Does portfolio size matter if you want to grow your earnings? Well, yes it does, but more important is how many files you have on the first pages of most popular sorts, the demand for those searches where you rank high and the overall search ranking of the rest of your portfolio. People with large portfolios tend to shoot the same subjects, the same genres over and over again and therefore their files compete with one another.

I have a pretty good RPI at SS but it used to be much better. Nowadays it is much more difficult to reach the top of the first page of most popular. My bestseller was No. 1 of a very popular search for about 2 years and was killed with a flick of a switch.

I still upload to SS from time to time, but only cheap images that don't have much value to me + videos. I think it is time to move on and find greener pastures. The rapid growth of the SS collection makes it ...unsustainable. I learned a lot at SS and I like them but I don't see there much potential for growth in the current model and pricing scheme.

My best new work goes to Stocksy and other places where I see much better growth potential. I will continue to upload low-value stuff to SS and continue to look for new ways to earn money with my cameras.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2014, 13:51 by Realist »

« Reply #74 on: October 05, 2014, 13:51 »
+4
Some very interesting posts and points here, but unfortunately this kind of conversation doesn't lead anywhere.
"Achieving $10,000/month" implies there is some sort of stability where there is none. Bestselllers die or are killed by search engine changes.


Does portfolio size matter if you want to grow your earnings? Well, yes it does, but more important is how many files you have on the first pages of most popular sorts, the demand for those searches where you rank high and the overall search ranking of the rest of your portfolio. People with large portfolios tend to shoot the same subjects, the same genres over and over again and therefore their files compete with one another.

I have a pretty good RPI at SS but it used to be much better. Nowadays it is much more difficult to reach the top of the first page of most popular. My bestseller was No. 1 of a very popular search for 2 years or longer and was killed with a flick of a switch.

I still upload to SS from time to time, but only cheap images that don't have much value to me + videos. I think it is time to move on and find greener pastures. The rapid growth of the SS collection makes it ...unsustainable. I learned a lot at SS and I like them but I don't see there much potential for growth in the current model and pricing scheme.

My best new work goes to Stocksy and other places where I see much better growth potential. I will continue to upload low-value stuff to SS and continue to look for new ways to earn money with my cameras.

my sentiments exactly. i bolded the points you hit the nail on the head.
but i have to stand up for ss here on your last statement re low-value stuff to ss .
as anal as i am to some , i am not an anti-SS-er. the misconception there if anyone thinks that, but really i don't give NFA if they think so.
but ss is the only earner for most if not all of us here. if not, we would see more sites in the 90s, or even +50% instead of the pathetic single digit for ages since their inception.
i don't agree that ss deserves only the low-value stuff.  ss is not giving us just 33 cts or pennies in spite of the great misconception. as pointed out, we do earn 28, 50, 80, 105 dollars as well.

as i said, i wish every site is as consistent as ss USED TO BE. they only started to be inconsistent after they went public. much like istock used to be consistent until the owner has an idea to sell it to Getty.
as for the flip of the switch re top sellers on page 1, even that could be amended
for us to cheer for ss longevity . afaik, no other site would even allow your top seller to stay on pg1 at all, unlike ss when once your seller is on pg1 u r more likely to see it remain as a perennial seller.
all it takes is for ss to stop fooling around with their switches , stop the crazy approval/rejection en masse ,etc... and we would all be back to being ss cheerleaders, me being the first one.
like it or not, no one else, not even stocksy can equal ss  just yet, as no one has earned the reputation with a history like ss,
except for the old IStock.


 

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