Quote from: Tenebroso on December 23, 2020, 14:17

This indicates that various population groups prefer the worst candidate in history in the face of the danger of a wide sector of society, tired of everything, oblivious to the news, unhappy, capable of living an alternative reality, and who can see the light on a dangerous far-right populist leader.

Logically, you have in opposite of half your people and the rest of the planet. Only violence will solve this issue. There is no other possible solution.

Are you talking about the one we just elected or the one that's leaving. 

When there are only two candidates for two Presidential elections and most of the people from either side, want neither of them, we get this kind of near 50/50 result.

People shouting and arguing, has never changed anyone on the other sides opinion or mind. So what we get is polarized, shouting, claims, lies and angry, for NOTHING! Oh it does make enemies and make friends dislike and distrust people they would otherwise be closer to. I see no gain and no purpose to the constant biased opinions.

No... violence is not the answer. Working within the system is the right answer.

I'm going to repeat it, trying to develop the phrase.

The Civil War, unfortunately, is the only possible way, available in the USA, that allows to restart the country. I wish I was wrong.

Harris is likely to be a living legend in America.

However, remember that it is not about Trump's actions, examples, ideas and words. It should be borne in mind that 70 million have supported his management. People who believe his lies. Absent from the news and in an alternate world. For years to come, the internet will continue to work their minds, and minors will continue to absorb hatred.

I don't see a solution, there are 70 million people. There cannot be 70 million fools. Therefore, there are 70 million people who see something else. This is simply unbearable.

You can aspire to a president who at least tries to do something other than breed hatred among his citizens. But how do we bring 70 million people into the real world?

Quote from: Horizon on December 21, 2020, 16:18

Believe it or not but people like Oringer, Zuckerburg etc etc are lefties and now with a new leftie President???  lefties have always become rich on other peoples work or money! so Jim how do you propose to get somebody like Oringer to do this?

There's so much wrong with this paragraph that I don't know where to start. But for now... I was always under the impression that 'righties' weren't a big fan of 'handouts', so I'm guessing you wouldn't be interested in this anyway?

Don't know what you mean to be honest but anyhow there is no money or power with leftie comany just misery and wishful thinking and that do not generate money not even an income.
As far as Oringer? well just have an educated guess.

I think what frightens me from the outside looking in, is that Trump got so many votes after being very open about his racism, bigotry, misogyny, and openly lying about so much, so often, while promoting divisiveness and hate and ignoring a pandemic that is killing thousands upon thousands. It goes well beyond party loyalty in my opinion, this is cult behavior.

Not sure Biden is the right guy, but literally anything is better than what you have now, even Pence would be better. At least they might show up to work.

We always think it's worst but there is always worse to see in furure

It's funny to hear about "lefties" in the US.

D.am.n commies.

You, you have to listen more to your veterans, they, met La Nueve (The 9th Company), communists, and fought side by side against fascism. And they can confirm that they do not have tails or horns.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Nueve

Believe it or not but people like Oringer, Zuckerburg etc etc are lefties and now with a new leftie President???  lefties have always become rich on other peoples work or money! so Jim how do you propose to get somebody like Oringer to do this?

Yes, yes, they lefties. That is why they are always pushing for better government regulation and higher taxes on the rich. Oh no wait, that's literally the opposite of what they are doing.

@ Trabuco I know we do not agree on politics. No problem.


Now that you have two winning presidents, divide the country, so the taxes are managed independently. In addition to education in schools. Health. Hate and freedom of expression. Abortion, immigration, transsexuals, gays, feminists, lame and bald. And the entire pack.

I don't know why the USA feels so distant to you. We are the ones who have been living on the continent the longest, except for the natives. And they still have trouble defining ethnicities and races. Now they call us, not white. However, it is clear that the country is divided in two. The closest definition is that half follows the news from the media, and the other half follow Trump.

Well, so the british, the german and the dutch call us "non white" or "spaniard white"    It's like a joke. I really like to be black, I love the Blues.

I think that the same thing is happening here and in the rest of western countries, not just in the USA and, in the USA, not just in one side. There is hate speech everywhere and polarized societies in all countries. Politicians and media are crap everywhere, not just in one side. Have to think that most of Trump voters read several newspapers and watch several tv channels too. At least in the same proportion that Biden voters.

In Europe It's really hard to read a newspaper. Some media like The Guardian just invent the news, I have read fake news about Spain. And in Spain all newspapers and tv channels are garbage. All of them, pure s.

So, we have the same problems. We are lucky because we have a bigger structure over the countries with strong rules in some issues, but without the EU Europe would become a jungle. But we have some kind of stability that is our biggest richness. We are going to see soon our strongness together with the british chaos.

Maybe in America people have to find a way to fight for a better life beyond the two parties. Poverty is a domination mechanism in both capitalist and communist countries.

Completely agree with you! I live in a socialist country and a lot of people are eating crap, despite the false promises of socialism about equality and better quality of life.

Quote from: trabuco on December 30, 2020, 08:16

Well, so the british, the german and the dutch call us "non white" or "spaniard white"    It's like a joke. I really like to be black, I love the Blues.

I think that the same thing is happening here and in the rest of western countries, not just in the USA and, in the USA, not just in one side. There is hate speech everywhere and polarized societies in all countries. Politicians and media are crap everywhere, not just in one side. Have to think that most of Trump voters read several newspapers and watch several tv channels too. At least in the same proportion that Biden voters.

In Europe It's really hard to read a newspaper. Some media like The Guardian just invent the news, I have read fake news about Spain. And in Spain all newspapers and tv channels are garbage. All of them, pure s.

So, we have the same problems. We are lucky because we have a bigger structure over the countries with strong rules in some issues, but without the EU Europe would become a jungle. But we have some kind of stability that is our biggest richness. We are going to see soon our strongness together with the british chaos.

Maybe in America people have to find a way to fight for a better life beyond the two parties. Poverty is a domination mechanism in both capitalist and communist countries.

Completely agree with you! I live in a socialist country and a lot of people are eating crap, despite the false promises of socialism about equality and better quality of life.

In Europe and in Spain we should make a clear bet for democracy and prosperity in Hispanoam�rica. We should focus on there not just for pictures in summits.

Quote from: Tenebroso on December 30, 2020, 07:30

I don't know why the USA feels so distant to you. We are the ones who have been living on the continent the longest, except for the natives. And they still have trouble defining ethnicities and races. Now they call us, not white. However, it is clear that the country is divided in two. The closest definition is that half follows the news from the media, and the other half follow Trump.

Actually if you look at it, half don't like one side and the other half doesn't like the other side. Not many like anything. 

Besides that, anyone who is outside and looks at the news, is just as misguided by polarized agendas as the simplistic view that, there are two ends. The actual alignment is much more in the middle, but the extremes talk the most and shout the loudest.

Part of the ratings game has become, leaning towards one side or the other. What ever happened to impartial? So people go to the stations and the news and the talk, that agrees with their views the most. Then they get confidence and rewarded by hearing people that agree with them, and avoiding people that don't.

Anyway the main honest point is, don't believe the extremes or that they actually represent the people in the United States. The far left is just as "out there" as the far right. Some of the most racist groups are racial advocacy groups. Not a pretty picture, but also not much different from many other countries in the world. In some ways better, because there's actually some openness and discussion, where other places, you can have freedom of speech, but the next day, you might never be heard from again. 

Free speech is good, even if I have to listen to people I disagree with. I support freedom of expression, for everyone, on an equal basis.

I am very grateful for your words. There are very interesting things in your words.

Me, seeing it from the outside nothing at all, at this point it is not the first time that I comment that my partner is from the USA and I have been fighting for decades to change the laws against the arguments of not being able to insult is censorship.

About my grandfather, in NY, and his three American decades, I'll tell you another day.

Our minors cannot consume your trash of insults, slights, disqualifications, hatred and hostile environment on the internet.

I know the legislation by heart and the arguments of practically all hate groups in the USA, the decisions of the Supreme Court around the concept of not legislating on hateful feelings. And you see, you are not going to convince me of anything, since I am talking about the experience of living in a zone of peace. Where the day to day, confirms that gays are normal people.

Multinationals are already getting it, soon, less harmful messages will reach your mind.

We take measures every day, so that it does not happen to us like in the Swedish elections, Brexit or Trump. And so we will continue.

To insult Gays, it will be in your town church, not on the internet. This you must assume as censorship of hatred and freedom for people. As APPEL said, the moral obligation of responsibility towards humanity.

I'm not Gay, but for you, as if I was. The rest of the pack, exactly the same. You know, with UE IP, respect comes first. In your house do what you want.

This is not about taking away your freedom by demanding a mask for you, it is about a worldwide virus attack. And you will put on a mask to protect the one in front.
We do not close bars and restaurants to earn money from Ukraine or nonsense or Chinese flu crap. We close bars to save people.

If you think being gay is a disease, say it at home, not on the internet.


It is difficult for you to understand the rights of others, but you will see, the right to information, the right to honor, the right to privacy and the right to intimacy is paramount. And of course, take the fake news before the judge. You cannot say what you want, when you want, and how you want, not even being an American.

The big multinationals understand it based on sanctions. You see, your minors will be brought up with the hatred of the father, not with the hatred on the internet.

Now you tell me again that the media eat my head and manipulate me.

In case you don't know, you are losing every battle. For many dollars that hate groups received, money destined to help families and restaurants from the first aid of covid, we are more. We do not forgive and we do not forget.

Remember, hate speech has been very well defined for decades, you are not going to continue with your hatred on the internet. And believe me, I love freedom of expression.

Rather, you should focus your effort on those things that work in other developed countries and not rely on what your neighbor says, or rumors. A town without information is a lost town.

I know the arguments by heart of listening to the American national supremacy, even you repeat them and make them yours. Freedom of expression has limits, if you are healthy, you will observe the changes over the years.

Remember, to insult, in a town hall on Sundays or Thursdays, not on the internet.

Our boys, most of them are vaccinated and laugh, some believe it, this is the problem, we had overcome it decades ago. Freedom of expression does not give the right to the Crime of Hate Speech, nor against women, Islam, transsexuals,...... you will evolve, the American people seem to have said that the country must change now.


Another possibility is that you do not have to get weapons for the population, you are already armed, the civil war awaits you, and correct the errors of the previous one, so that it is the last one and not have another in a few years.


No matter what the votes, justice, or democracy say, a large percentage of Trump supporters know what Trump's divine word is.

You can start whenever you want. Is the only way.


You can put on the mask if you want, the vaccine if you want, but on the internet, you are not going to fill the heads of our minors with hatred, keep that in mind. Keep heat in your house.

Weapons do not affect us, you can put a tank in the schools, and guard the teachers' backs, put the army in the schools, it does not affect us. Hate on the internet does affect us.


Like suicide induction, actual threat, and defamation, you are gonna eat the Hate Speech Crime with chips. Freedom of expression does not mean urinating on feminists in public. You will evolve as a country.


You do not have adequate information, here, if you make a false video, you pay the penalty that the judge determines, we have information, and I respect people.

You will learn.

Thank you.