Is it fair?  I don't think so.  How do you think?

According to some who use BlackBoxGuild, BlackBoxGuild contributors on Shutterstock reach the highest tier of commission just because BlackBoxGuild account is so huge. This is totally unfair to all the individual contributors who upload and tag themselves. Small contributors who would never reach the higher levels end up at the highest level (minus BlackBoxGuild fee of course). This should be addressed by Shutterstock.

BlackBoxGuild's and all other third party uploaders' commission tier should be capped at the average tier level of all individual contributors instead. Totally unfair to us individual contributors on Shutterstock.

Same happens for Wirestock also.

Blackbox takes 15% of your net sales, at a higher level. Wirestockalso  takes 15% of your net sales at a higher contributor level.

Totally unfair to us individual contributors on Shutterstock.

Free market, if you think there's some advantage, join Blackbox or Wirestock.

Yes, their parents love seeing them surfing.  Many thanked me.  And many have signed model release.  Thanks.
You somehow opted for unrelated personal attack rather than talk about the topic I've raised.  Cheap shot.

Personally, I would never use a third party uploader even if you get this unfair advantage of bumped up commission on Shutterstock.  Third party uploaders have their operation cost as a business.  You never know if they go belly up bankrupt and cease operation suddenly owing you some money just like some stock sites have ended up in the past.  Also, you never know if they may be lying about your sales.  It's just much safer uploading on your own and be in total control.  I know it's convenient for many who use those third party uploaders, but I've never considered about using those services. 

Quote from: blvdone on June 24, 2023, 13:13

Yes, their parents love seeing them surfing.  Many thanked me.  And many have signed model release.  Thanks.

Tell us more about your release signing technology. Do you shoot any random people? Do you pay people to sign a release? Do you give people your video?

I don't have to tell you everything.  Figure it out by yourself.  Stay with the topic of third party uploader.  I won't respond any further otherwise.

Is it fair?  I don't think so.  How do you think?

According to some who use BlackBoxGuild, BlackBoxGuild contributors on Shutterstock reach the highest tier of commission just because BlackBoxGuild account is so huge. This is totally unfair to all the individual contributors who upload and tag themselves. Small contributors who would never reach the higher levels end up at the highest level (minus BlackBoxGuild fee of course). This should be addressed by Shutterstock.

BlackBoxGuild's and all other third party uploaders' commission tier should be capped at the average tier level of all individual contributors instead. Totally unfair to us individual contributors on Shutterstock.

Well, SS is the only advantage at BB, they will deduct 15% of your sales at all other agencies, so you may end up losing more money than what you won from SS levels alone.

Quote from: blvdone on June 24, 2023, 13:28

So, the highest tier is 40% commission.  After BlackBoxGuild or WireStock takes 15% of the 40% royalty, you are still at 34% commission that's nearly level 5 that's almost impossible for most video contributors and is difficult to many photo contributors.  Or is it 40% -15% at 25% commission?

One thing is large companies have bespoke royalty levels from Shutterstock (this was admitted when levels came in) so we have no idea if BB/WS have negotiated their own or are on the same tier as normal people

And its 15% NET which i take to mean they take 15% of whatever commission they got paid and give you the rest.

For video on SS its likely worth it now given the fairly brutal tiering system and fact you lose money on every sale until reaching that level. (2 years running now i annoyingly reached level 4 video on new years eve although photo L5 happens pretty early on).

Ultimately though, for any other agency that isnt tiered then the maths work out in your favour to do it yourself.

One thing i can't work out is if whether being a large selling contributor they get preference in the search algorithms which increases the likelihood of a clip being seen or not.  Not seen anything concrete either way.

OK, so that's 34% after BlackBox taking their 15%.  Most who use BlackBox probably wouldn't reach above 30% tier and probably many would be in the 20-25% tier.  That's a great deal for those who would be in the 20-25% range if they uploaded by themselves.  A contributor who is at 20% and make $100/month would make $170/mont if they upload to BlackBox instead.  I want Shutterstock to cap BlackBox, Wirestock and other third party upload services at 30%, not 40%.  They are not their own stock photo/video agency.  So, it's completely different from the likes of Pond5 putting videos on AdobeStock in the past and with their GPP with international sites.  Those who use third party uploading service shouldn't be making more than what they would be making if they uploaded themselves.  It just sounds unfair to all contributors who upload by themselves.  If I was Shutterstock, I would never give massive third party uploader account  40%.  That's more than what they used to give at 30%.  I kind of doubt if Shutterstock is actually giving BlackBox and Wirestock 40%.  It just doesn't make business sense.  They created this tier system to squeeze some extra profit for themselves.  They can't end up giving higher percentage on average instead. 

I would be surprised if they're not on a special tariff (but will be NDAd to disclose nothing).


For anyone that uses Blackbox - is it possible for people to select which agencies get the content or is it all or nothing?

For example i can see a purpose to using it for SS only but not AS or others that don't have levels.  Also, who in their right mind would want material on Storyblocks etc?

I have the same question about the sales report from BlackBox etc.  We see which photo/video sold and how much the commission was for each sale.  Honestly without that detailed breakdown of sales, I can't trust those third party uploader.  There's no guarantee there may be some foul play by rogue employee or management in the future.  These are small privately owned companies.  You can say you don't trust big agencies in the first place, but I don't want an extra layer of much higher risk.  BTW, Wirestock has a very unimpressive rating.  https://www.trustpilot.com/review/wirestock.io

On wirestock you can select which agency to send content to. And you also see the individual sales on every agency.

I just accepted the summer deal for wirestock, but I will not be distributing to istock. They only pay 15% and I have a well established port with good sellers. I also do my own keywording and descriptions.

Wirestock will replace eyeem as my go to place for mobile phone snapshots. eyeem took 50%, wire only 15%, so it is a better deal.

Normal content will be uploaded as usual, including nice content from mobile phones. But for the daily happy flower shot, a lot of small editorial etc...eyeem and also twenty20 were great places and I am sure wire can fill their shoes.

I will do it for a year, then we see.

There are several of us in the German groups. Some actually send everything to wire, including their people work. They have been doing it for several years now and are pleased with the experience. So I am not making my decision blindly.

But there is no reason to use specialized distributors if you don't like it. You can just let your agencies distribute for you. But usually you will get less money through the deals they make.

It's a free world, everyone can run their business anyway they like.

As for safety: eyeem was a huge German company with millions of producers and a huge community. organising photo shootings etc...

Now they are bankrupt and many people lost thousands of dollars.

So even if a company has a lot of financial backing, is based in a country with safe laws and you can walk into their office to meet people, you never really know.

pond5 was sold abruptly to SS and many worry what this will ultimately mean for pond5. I hope it stays stable and with flat percentage rates, but we will see.

But there are enough agencies to choose from.  Personally I like to spread out to lower my risk.

It also all depends on the content, not every agency is suitable for every style or customer group.

For me to use BB i'd want to use it for SS only as i'd earn probably 5% or so more than direct.

However on all other sites i'd lose 15% if i used it to submit to them as well.

So no opt-out then its likely not worth it for me.


This is assuming BB hasn't go a bespoke agreement with SS and gets the full royalty payment and not a bulk, reduced amount.

For me to use BB i'd want to use it for SS only as i'd earn probably 5% or so more than direct.

However on all other sites i'd lose 15% if i used it to submit to them as well.

So no opt-out then its likely not worth it for me.


This is assuming BB hasn't go a bespoke agreement with SS and gets the full royalty payment and not a bulk, reduced amount.

you can distribute video with wire and. then choose shutterstock only

but I don't know how many videos they have and if their ranking would be higher

bb does only video

Quote from: Uncle Pete on June 27, 2023, 11:30

Quote from: blvdone on June 24, 2023, 13:28

Quote from: Uncle Pete on June 24, 2023, 10:57

Same happens for Wirestock also.

Blackbox takes 15% of your net sales, at a higher level. Wirestockalso  takes 15% of your net sales at a higher contributor level.

Quote from: blvdone on June 24, 2023, 10:12

Totally unfair to us individual contributors on Shutterstock.

Free market, if you think there's some advantage, join Blackbox or Wirestock.

So, the highest tier is 40% commission.  After BlackBoxGuild or WireStock takes 15% of the 40% royalty, you are still at 34% commission that's nearly level 5 that's almost impossible for most video contributors and is difficult to many photo contributors.  Or is it 40% -15% at 25% commission?

If it was "unfair" then others could join and make more, and you could not. As it is, the decision is yours to join BB or not. There's nothing unfair about freedom of choice.

I don't do that and I only upload for the minor sites, on WS. That's my choice and I'd rather work my own images myself. Totally fair and equal.

Correct, unfair would be if nobody could join smaller production companies and submit under white label.

But everybody can and there are many companies to choose from.

Many artists do this as a mix, they have their own ports but submit a certain amount to a distributor.

The getty house contract is probably the largest distribution contract of its kind, because they pass your files around to over 200 agency partners and then endless enterprise deals, where the content is featured in large companies that are basically platforms by themselves.

And Getty only gives you 20%.

Getty House contract sounds interesting. Too bad they won't take my images anymore, because I'm competing with the hired help.