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Author Topic: I think we need a WELL DESERVED RAISE this year...  (Read 23083 times)

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SME

« Reply #125 on: March 09, 2015, 20:27 »
+4
I want to move forward with productive ideas on how to monetize our images effectively.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2015, 20:41 by SME »


« Reply #126 on: March 09, 2015, 20:46 »
+9


We need to address the fact that they have clearly chosen to stiff their contributors while expecting us to fully bankroll, produce, upload and keyword their product. Without our investments and hard work they have nothing to sell.



NOTHING.
+10  We need more "fuel" so we can all continue to be in this business!

« Reply #127 on: March 10, 2015, 13:34 »
0


We need to address the fact that they have clearly chosen to stiff their contributors while expecting us to fully bankroll, produce, upload and keyword their product. Without our investments and hard work they have nothing to sell.



NOTHING.


your raise below!

Every day, contributors in 150 countries submit photos, vectors, illustrations, and videos for our 1.2 million customers to explore, share, and download. With more than 500 million all-time downloads, its important that we look at our global, two-sided marketplace to offer new insight for our most important stakeholders the Shutterstock contributors.

http://www.shutterstock.com/blog/contributor-earnings-report

« Reply #128 on: March 10, 2015, 13:36 »
+16


We need to address the fact that they have clearly chosen to stiff their contributors while expecting us to fully bankroll, produce, upload and keyword their product. Without our investments and hard work they have nothing to sell.



NOTHING.


your raise below!

Every day, contributors in 150 countries submit photos, vectors, illustrations, and videos for our 1.2 million customers to explore, share, and download. With more than 500 million all-time downloads, its important that we look at our global, two-sided marketplace to offer new insight for our most important stakeholders the Shutterstock contributors.

http://www.shutterstock.com/blog/contributor-earnings-report


ROFL!!  What PR hack wrote that load of bollocks?!!

Semmick Photo

« Reply #129 on: March 10, 2015, 13:52 »
+5
Well sorry, but I have to agree with Pixelbytes there.

Rinderart

« Reply #130 on: March 10, 2015, 16:45 »
+2
32.5 Mil in 2011, 83 .6 in 2014. Trouble is.  WE  made more money in 2011 than we do now. They made More.So...In my little brain, every theory or conspiracy is wrong. all except One. More Images to dilute our earnings,Smaller piece of the pie than we had in 2011,2010,2009,2008,2007 and 2006 and there piece is bigger.And that as far as I see it will just get worse with 450,000 a week, and better for them. So it goes. Congrats SS, Sorry guys. It also seems that everything they do is geared for shareholders eyes, Not ours. There bottom Line goes up... Ours goes down. everything they do is a business expense , so is ours. Problem with that is, we have no Profit after we write off our expenses . If you add in time spent Including {resubmitting] equipment,processing software,And all the other stuff. Then it becomes a Hobby and you can't write that off.

I just had my taxes done, My guy for 22 years asks me the last 3 years "Why do you do this? You make 80% more in a month doing clients and your many other Projects than this stock thing the last 3 years"

I say...."I don't know, Maybe it will turn around again" He said..."Good luck with That" and thank your Lucky stars you have Music copyrights that pay you with zero expenses.

i don't know guys, The future is weird, More sales,More countries and Many More Mouths to feed. It just doesn't seen sustainable unless there is a better commission Based on tiers. Theres only a certain amount of resources and food for everyone. The saving grace is...If your smart, cost effective,Go with trends,Be unique,Do the work and Lots of it you can get by. Maybe not Like the past, But....The past is dead My friends.

Stock is fun....You can shoot anything unlike client work, Just wish it was better to justify all the issues and hoops and headaches we have to jump through.And that goes for every site, SS is still the best of the best But, For how long? Thats the question. 75,000 submitters...90% making 200/400 a month more or less. We need to adjust and take this as it is now. at least I do. Im just not good with change or at least change I can't control.

« Reply #131 on: March 10, 2015, 20:34 »
+5
Interesting to see how little of the money goes to American suppliers, and also to UK and Germany.  By inference by far the largest portion goes to Russia, Baltic States, ex Eastern Bloc, where we know that many of the high volume producers, factories live.

Those Countries have seen their currencies plunge by 20% to 30% against the Dollar over the past year, effectively giving them a 20% to 30% pay rise in local currency.  Those guys probably have massive smiles on their faces as they are earning 20% to 30% more than last year.  They won't be joining in the call for a raise from Shutterstock, because they are already creaming in the dough.

Shelma1

« Reply #132 on: March 10, 2015, 20:44 »
+3
I read an article recently that quoted Oringer saying he's glad SS can offer a living to people in developing countries. It was clear he didn't see his crowd sourcing model as a sustainable source of income in expensive countries. I wish I could find the article.

« Reply #133 on: March 10, 2015, 22:48 »
+1
Interesting to see how little of the money goes to American suppliers, and also to UK and Germany.  By inference by far the largest portion goes to Russia, Baltic States, ex Eastern Bloc, where we know that many of the high volume producers, factories live.

Those Countries have seen their currencies plunge by 20% to 30% against the Dollar over the past year, effectively giving them a 20% to 30% pay rise in local currency.  Those guys probably have massive smiles on their faces as they are earning 20% to 30% more than last year.  They won't be joining in the call for a raise from Shutterstock, because they are already creaming in the dough.


Sorry, you were right in every word you wrote from your perspective but you have to spread the frame and add more numbers on this to get a clearer picture.


Have you considered, again from another perspective,  that dollar has not even reached its state against local currencies from lets say 2009. and that pay rise that you are mentioning is objectively nothing less but partial covering of the loss of huge dollar plunge that those people experienced in all those years. 
And it was almost up to 50% in some of those places at some points.

People from those countries lost at least 20%-30% on all last 6 years work just on currency exchange rate.


Another thing, lets say that one of those "factories"had to take a loan to start few years ago, only reasonable option was offered only in foreign currency
because unfortunately home country doesn't own any  banks anymore after the recent sell out. 
And ti di di di dit, that currency is getting 35% up.  Lucky them...those guys probably have massive smiles on their faces  ;)


Somehow I feel that unfortunately  % of those smiling in the industry at this time is not much of a number and  that you targeted wrong smiling group.  ;D


« Last Edit: March 10, 2015, 22:50 by Lizard »

« Reply #134 on: March 10, 2015, 23:19 »
+1
We had an agency that had easy and fast upload, the option to set our own price and paying us 52% royalty!
What did we do? upload our stuff elsewhere to get that quick fix then complain for not having sales at GL (Graphic Leftovers) and eventually quit them...

GL isn't exactly a good example of a squandered opportunity. They had their own internal problems, poor branding (the original name didn't suggest "premium" content), some kind of search meltdown and poor placement in Google, etc. Sure we can always say we should have supported them better, but in the end I think their undoing was mostly their own fault.

...Did we use this very forum as a leverage to guide buyers? We still don't to this day.
Did we give them any chance by uploading files exclusively for a certain amount of time? Nope again, looking for that quick fix is all that seems to matter these day, like junkies. 52% of nothing is nothing. WTH do you expect anyway when your same work is up much cheaper elsewhere. Buyers are still willing to pay big bucks if you only guide them...

Agreed wholeheartedly. Our biggest failure as a community has always been (in my opinion) our failure to turn our collective frustration into something positive. We're a community of complainers, and surely I'm as guilty of that as anyone. But when it comes down to doing something, we largely don't do enough or anything at all.

A few years ago I wrote a long post about rallying behind a single good company, someone who pays 50% or more, has a good site, good "curb appeal" for customers, a simple buying system, and preferably experience in the business. I thought that company was Stockfresh at the time, but they've since proven that they're not really interested in taking on the task of marketing the site and expanding their reach. I guess they're content with where they are right now.

The point was, though, that I thought if we could all make some sort of effort to drive customers in a certain direction, towards more fair companies that offer the best mutually beneficial experience for both buyers and contributors, that the collective strength of the community would make a difference.

We know that individually we can make a difference. Referral programs prove that. I know I've personally referred at least 100 buyers to Stockfresh and Creative Market combined. Imagine if everyone on this forum referred 100 buyers to good agencies. Or even 10 buyers. Those numbers add up.

The reality is, we won't ever do that. We won't ever agree on which companies to focus on, and in past discussions about this some people actually think that Shutterstock is the company we should be referring buyers to, despite SS paying largely unimpressive royalties. And as long as we can't agree on even the most basic things like who the best companies are (from a contributor standpoint) then we'll never get beyond that point to make anything good happen.

We also won't do anything to put our work where it does the most good. I think if everyone made a minimal effort to change upload behavior, it would make a difference. I try to push stuff to Creative Market first, and to offer more with each file at CM than I do elsewhere. I have a really good selling set of 9 vector badges that I sell everywhere, but CM I added 3 more badges that are only available there. And I offer PSD versions of many of my images at CM, something I don't offer anywhere else. It matters. If someone really wants a PSD version or a fully editable text version (SS and others don't allow vectors to retain editable text), they'll go to CM to get it. When someone contacts me asking about why the file they bought at SS doesn't have editable text, I tell them exactly why and where they can get fully editable files in the future. And you know what? They go there to buy those files next time.

We can affect buyer behavior if we try. And if we combined our efforts and rallied around a couple of the best companies, it would absolutely make a positive difference for us in the long term.

I think GL was the victim of their own failures, but other companies will fall victim to our failures if we continue to only look at short-term gains and ignore the long-term health of the business.




Can you please give  some positive name to this post and open as separate topic for those interested to continue the conversation in this direction...

I can only promise to join the conversation so there will at least be 2 of us and that's already at least 50% more people than I seen in some topics in history.

 Gave you +1 btw ;D
« Last Edit: March 10, 2015, 23:51 by Lizard »

Rinderart

« Reply #135 on: March 10, 2015, 23:46 »
+7
Interesting to see how little of the money goes to American suppliers, and also to UK and Germany.  By inference by far the largest portion goes to Russia, Baltic States, ex Eastern Bloc, where we know that many of the high volume producers, factories live.

Those Countries have seen their currencies plunge by 20% to 30% against the Dollar over the past year, effectively giving them a 20% to 30% pay rise in local currency.  Those guys probably have massive smiles on their faces as they are earning 20% to 30% more than last year.  They won't be joining in the call for a raise from Shutterstock, because they are already creaming in the dough.

The eastern euro Submitters, ukraine,Russia etc,etc have always from day One been the dominate suppliers of the best Glamour,Fashion and processing skills in all of Microstock , this has been clear for 10 years. Hands down the best. I was watching people from there 9 years ago and was always blown away with the skill level compared to everywhere and anyone else. These folks have a "LOOK" that you can spot, If ya know what to look for. Good for them!!!!!!!

Uncle Pete

« Reply #136 on: March 11, 2015, 10:01 »
+2
Rinderart: "75,000 submitters...90% making 200/400 a month more or less"

Or Less

5% of the people are making 90% of the income. The MSG poll represents the top 5% of all people in microstock. (in other words the people here, are the top of the best.)

When I could read the numbers for IS, over 50% of the submitters Never Reached Payout! Not once. At that time the reviews on SS and IS were equally difficult.

Later years, the number of people with 1000 or less images on SS (2012) was 90%!

Yes only 10% of the SS members had 1000 or more images in 2012.

Only 4% of Independents on IS had over 1000 images. 64% of the IS independent artists had under 250 downloads, lifetime.

If your earnings were higher in 2012, there's a good reason. The competition was weak and small.

2012 SS had 20 million Images, now there are 50 million. That's not just a 150% increase, it's 30 million NEW images! Percentages just don't explain 30 million new images in the same dramatic way.

Slice of the pie is much smaller for everyone.

Dook

« Reply #137 on: March 11, 2015, 10:56 »
+1


2012 SS had 20 million Images, now there are 50 million. That's not just a 150% increase, it's 30 million NEW images! Percentages just don't explain 30 million new images in the same dramatic way.

Slice of the pie is much smaller for everyone.
But there are many more buyers, too. I mean, I guess, I don't have any numbers. So, slice of the pie is not that much smaller. Just this demand and supply thing.
If you have good quality pictures, even with increased supply, you can benefit from increased demand.

« Reply #138 on: March 11, 2015, 13:51 »
-2
The eastern euro Submitters, ukraine,Russia etc,etc have always from day One been the dominate suppliers of the best Glamour,Fashion and processing skills in all of Microstock , this has been clear for 10 years. Hands down the best. I was watching people from there 9 years ago and was always blown away with the skill level compared to everywhere and anyone else. These folks have a "LOOK" that you can spot, If ya know what to look for. Good for them!!!!!!!

How do they compare in terms of creativity? I ask because on the vector side, in my opinion, the most creative and innovative stuff comes out of the US, Canada, the west in general.

Just wondering where the most creative ideas in stock photography seem to be coming from.

Rinderart

« Reply #139 on: March 11, 2015, 16:15 »
+4
I don't think so Much for creative perse' Just gorgeous to see and admire.don't know about Vectors and stuff But Fashion,Glamour and retouching are just off the chart good. it kinda started with Dolgachev,Kurhan, Anna Subbotina and so many others. Theres just a distinctive look with a certain group, Sean Forgiss wife is awfully good also.I personally Love really good glamour work.My Fav, Sorry, back to Raise topic.

http://www.shutterstock.com/gallery-195826p1.html
« Last Edit: March 11, 2015, 16:31 by Rinderart »

« Reply #140 on: March 11, 2015, 20:30 »
+3


We need to address the fact that they have clearly chosen to stiff their contributors while expecting us to fully bankroll, produce, upload and keyword their product. Without our investments and hard work they have nothing to sell.



NOTHING.


your raise below!

Every day, contributors in 150 countries submit photos, vectors, illustrations, and videos for our 1.2 million customers to explore, share, and download. With more than 500 million all-time downloads, its important that we look at our global, two-sided marketplace to offer new insight for our most important stakeholders the Shutterstock contributors.

http://www.shutterstock.com/blog/contributor-earnings-report


ROFL!!  What PR hack wrote that load of bollocks?!!


i think the board of directors and primary shareholders must have misread that some of us contributors
have in our office ...
- a gym (weights made out  of canned food)
- a sauna ( office is in the backyard with aluminium roof , same makeshift hut where plant fertilizer is stored)
- day-care center ( grandparents looking after kids )

« Reply #141 on: March 12, 2015, 07:38 »
+2


We need to address the fact that they have clearly chosen to stiff their contributors while expecting us to fully bankroll, produce, upload and keyword their product. Without our investments and hard work they have nothing to sell.



NOTHING.

They're not expecting anything. It's just happening. The supply is getting bigger and bigger, why would they change anything?


« Reply #142 on: March 12, 2015, 08:10 »
+1
I just wish istock drop the stupid RC system that don't help contributor at all ! That's a shame from istock. The canister level was way better. I was diamond and the RC system implement made me remove my exclusivity because the sales were dropping a lot and I couldnt make the RC level I wanted to be.

« Reply #143 on: March 12, 2015, 08:14 »
0


We need to address the fact that they have clearly chosen to stiff their contributors while expecting us to fully bankroll, produce, upload and keyword their product. Without our investments and hard work they have nothing to sell.



NOTHING.

They're not expecting anything. It's just happening. The supply is getting bigger and bigger, why would they change anything?

Right. They have zero risk and in fact could cut our commissions and still be in excellent shape. Simply put, not enough contributors would leave. It is a shame. I don't think there's a serious contributor who wouldn't want a raise, let alone those who deserve one.

« Reply #144 on: March 12, 2015, 08:33 »
+3
The eastern euro Submitters, ukraine,Russia etc,etc have always from day One been the dominate suppliers of the best Glamour,Fashion and processing skills in all of Microstock , this has been clear for 10 years. Hands down the best. I was watching people from there 9 years ago and was always blown away with the skill level compared to everywhere and anyone else. These folks have a "LOOK" that you can spot, If ya know what to look for. Good for them!!!!!!!


How do they compare in terms of creativity? I ask because on the vector side, in my opinion, the most creative and innovative stuff comes out of the US, Canada, the west in general.

Just wondering where the most creative ideas in stock photography seem to be coming from.


I think Eastern Europe and Russia has some of the best creatives working today, especially some of the illustrators.

I just did a search for "illustration" on SS and sorted by most recent, clicking on illustrations I thought were good. Every one that jumped out on the first few pages was from Russia or Eastern Europe:

http://www.shutterstock.com/gallery-2634025p1.html
http://www.shutterstock.com/gallery-1194743p1.html
http://www.shutterstock.com/gallery-2719327p1.html
http://www.shutterstock.com/gallery-2456114p1.html

Give it a try.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2015, 08:37 by Justanotherphotographer »

PaulieWalnuts

  • We Have Exciting News For You
« Reply #145 on: March 12, 2015, 09:03 »
-1


We need to address the fact that they have clearly chosen to stiff their contributors while expecting us to fully bankroll, produce, upload and keyword their product. Without our investments and hard work they have nothing to sell.



NOTHING.

They're not expecting anything. It's just happening. The supply is getting bigger and bigger, why would they change anything?

Exactly. Contributors continue to, at best, get no improvement in contractual benefits while mostly seeing benefits taken away and royalties drop. But hoards of new contributors are joining and existing contributors are still submitting record numbers of images. To SS, there is no problem and no reason to change anything with contributors.

As long as so many people are happy working an immense number of hours to create and submit thousands of images to make $10 a month nothing will change. I wonder what would happen if all of the unprofitable contributors suddenly stopped submitting. Just curious if it's the ton of contributors or the image factories that are responsible for the flood of images. 

« Reply #146 on: March 12, 2015, 12:08 »
+4

As long as so many people are happy working an immense number of hours to create and submit thousands of images to make $10 a month nothing will change. I wonder what would happen if all of the unprofitable contributors suddenly stopped submitting. Just curious if it's the ton of contributors or the image factories that are responsible for the flood of images.

i can answer that for you PW...
many years ago in the days when telemarketing started, a bunch of managers told the owners the same thing about treating the call center agents more decently instead of just "you people"...
the answer given to the managers was ... "the door is over there... as soon as you leave, we can replace you with 4 of you people for every one of you".
the next months following, those who stayed were sent to India to train the new people there.
when they came back, the HO was closed as the outsource became the new global HO.

same scenario for microstock

« Reply #147 on: March 12, 2015, 17:02 »
+3


We need to address the fact that they have clearly chosen to stiff their contributors while expecting us to fully bankroll, produce, upload and keyword their product. Without our investments and hard work they have nothing to sell.



NOTHING.


They're not expecting anything. It's just happening. The supply is getting bigger and bigger, why would they change anything?


Exactly. Contributors continue to, at best, get no improvement in contractual benefits while mostly seeing benefits taken away and royalties drop. But hoards of new contributors are joining and existing contributors are still submitting record numbers of images. To SS, there is no problem and no reason to change anything with contributors.

As long as so many people are happy working an immense number of hours to create and submit thousands of images to make $10 a month nothing will change. I wonder what would happen if all of the unprofitable contributors suddenly stopped submitting. Just curious if it's the ton of contributors or the image factories that are responsible for the flood of images.


Recently Shutterstock came out with its Infographic: Shutterstock's 2015 Contributor Earnings Report http://tinyurl.com/lxb9hxs where it listed the ranking of sales in each region.  I think they left the number 1, 2, and 4 spots out for good reason.

They fully know who initiated a strong response opposing DPC at fotolia.  All it would take is the Russian community pulling out for a short time and it would strongly affect their business.

PaulieWalnuts

  • We Have Exciting News For You
« Reply #148 on: March 12, 2015, 17:15 »
+4
Haaa. I got -2 for stating facts. Funny stuff.

Sorry people. No SS problems means no raises or other improvements. If there ever reaches a point where contributors start leaving in hoards and pulling images, new contributors stop joining, and image quality and quantity starts suffering, then you may see a carrot or two. Until then, your raise is to get back on the hamster wheel and produce enough sellable images to outpace collection growth.

Bring on the negatives.

PaulieWalnuts

  • We Have Exciting News For You
« Reply #149 on: March 12, 2015, 17:45 »
0

As long as so many people are happy working an immense number of hours to create and submit thousands of images to make $10 a month nothing will change. I wonder what would happen if all of the unprofitable contributors suddenly stopped submitting. Just curious if it's the ton of contributors or the image factories that are responsible for the flood of images.

i can answer that for you PW...
many years ago in the days when telemarketing started, a bunch of managers told the owners the same thing about treating the call center agents more decently instead of just "you people"...
the answer given to the managers was ... "the door is over there... as soon as you leave, we can replace you with 4 of you people for every one of you".
the next months following, those who stayed were sent to India to train the new people there.
when they came back, the HO was closed as the outsource became the new global HO.

same scenario for microstock

Well, I know what you're getting at and this is definitely similar but there's a key difference. In telemarketing you have greater changes of the opportunity to earn average market wages for that region which is why there's always someone to replace the current people. You could earn a living doing it. What percentage of stock contributors today are even earning what would be considered minimum wage? I'd bet a very small percentage are earning a living, and another small percentage are even earning comparable minimum wage.

What if that telemarketing company advertised they were paying 5% of market wage or enough to buy a basic dinner or two a month for working 20-40 hours a week? Nobody in their right mind would want the job. But that's effectively what's happening in microstock. There are a bazillion hobbyists that are just happy someone not only likes their work but are even willing to pay something, anything, even a few dollars for it. I know the feeling. I was one of those people who worked a ton of hours to get that first couple dollar sale. And I was ecstatic. And these stock sites know that and take advantage of it to its fullest.

There was an article I'll need to dig up where the new economy is turning into a bunch of internet services contractors. People are no longer employees. There's no insurance. No physical products or inventory. No benefits. No office. The financial investment and risk is shifting from companies to individuals while the companies are increasingly making a fortune. These are the Ubers, Lyfts, Spotifys, annnndddd newest generation of stock sites.

I hope this all turns around one day and starts heading back in the right direction. I keep sticking around waiting for the turnaround. The bottom. But this business is increasingly looking like a bottomless pit that an endless line of people are willing to keep jumping into.


 

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