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Author Topic: number of dlds per month at SS  (Read 10246 times)

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« on: August 24, 2012, 11:57 »
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   Hello all. I'm new in microstock, having a little port, but wondering why my numbers are so flat.
   Now, I was accepted to SS at the end of March, from the second attempt.
   My numbers are (no of pictures at the beginning of month):
april         44 files          19dlds
may         74 files          29dlds
june       113 files          27dlds
july        171 files          31dlds

   Now I have 203 files, and guess how many dlds in 24th of the month...I would like to say 24, but no, only 23. The day isn't over, so probably I will have  24 till tomorrow ;D. I don't know wo said "sales will go up and down" - he was wrong :D. Sales remain exactly the same for me. It is weird that despite of increase of port, no of dlds is the same. I know it's a little port but anyway...In fact, the only agency where I can see an increase is IS.
   Another weird thing is that my earnings from subscriptions are very low, about 30% of all I earned. The rest are ELs, ODs, and one SOD.
   And another: max number of dlds per day still remains 3. I had three dlds in a day back in march, with something like 15 pictures. It seems that it's like a wall.
   Two weeks back I decided to add keywords to my pictures, as I had many with 20-25. So I added to a minimum of 40. Guess what, no improve in dlds. I simply don't understand.
   Thank you in advance for sharing your opinion.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2012, 12:11 by tavi »


« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2012, 12:12 »
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This is the same thing I've seen over the last 3 years, at all the micro agences.  More images, sales never increase. 

« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2012, 12:15 »
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   With a large number of pictures...
   But when beginning, and triple your no of images in 3 month...

« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2012, 12:37 »
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In 2011 SS reportedly sold just under $60M images from a library averaging 15M images over that period. Therefore an 'average image' sells roughly 4x per year. To be an average performer your portfolio of 200 images should attract about 67 sales per month.

If that's not happening then you might need to work on the quality, diversity and saleability of your images. New images can attract early sales but after that they need to be good enough to climb the sort order in their subject matter for sales to be sustained.

« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2012, 12:40 »
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I can't see your SS portfolio (perhaps later once the forum updates have settled down I will be able to) but unless you have some extraordinarily commercial subjects, with your small portfolio, you really can't draw any conclusions at all. Seasonal variations - for example, I'm selling Christmas images now as well as Halloween and some beach pictures - plus the quiet time of year (August is vacation time almost everywhere) play a role in sales. If you just uploaded fireworks shots in July, they won't sell much in August (but may later), for example.

If adding to your portfolio did nothing, then my sales would be the same as yours, and they aren't :) Adding keywords only matters if you've missed important ones - if you look at the sales keywords in the darkroom tool you'll see that it's the obvious stuff that leads to sales most of the time. Beach for beach shots, office for workplace shots and so on.

For now, focus on growing your portfolio and once you're over 500 or 1K solid commercial images, then worry about sales trends

« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2012, 13:06 »
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I started with no expectations and ocassional submissions. It took me a couple of years to get over 200. By then the pattern was clear: my images sold (almost all of them), and a few sold pretty well, but overall sales and income never really increased.  The mindless growth of the agencies' collections, plus declining commissions,  lead to the conclusion that microstock is a dead end.

Many posters here have said you need a 'big' portfolio to draw any conclusions, implying there is some 'magic number' beyond which you start to get a boost in rankings; but that's impossible to prove, and  I've seen no convincing reason why 200 images wouldn't be a statistically valid sample. 
« Last Edit: August 24, 2012, 13:09 by stockastic »

« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2012, 13:07 »
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I have only "entered" SS on the 3rd time, pretty much 3 months after other agencies because I havent understood that no reason next to the picture was actually an "approved" file

more exactly on the middle of June 2009 I finally got in, that made me have a lot more files ready for "massive" upload

first half month - 65 sales (24.45$) with 195 photos (289 rejected)
july - 187 sales (50.62$) with 333 photos (521 rejected)
august - 147 sales (38.94$) with 416 photos (646 rejected)
september - 184 sales (56.95$) with 474 photos (776 rejected)

where was I heading? no idea but I kept on trying everything, what I am saying is that you need to work hard and learn what files have more demand, its a gradual process (still going ;D) and sometimes you still have good/bad surprises, of course you need to see an increase around all agencies too (its important to upload at "all" agencies in case you see decrease in one, other might recover that lose) but if you think too much of it you won't shoot anything because agencies have everything already and much better than you can do! you need to spend the less money possible and take advantage of what you have around, friends, family, props etc...

its more lucrative to shoot when when you have nice props, models, gear but remember you need to get that back if you ever spend it ;D

« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2012, 13:14 »
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Many posters here have said you need a 'big' portfolio to draw any conclusions, implying there is some 'magic number' beyond which you start to get a boost in rankings; but that's impossible to prove, and  I've seen no convincing reason why 200 images wouldn't be a statistically valid sample.

If you have 200 really commercial images, the volume of sales may be enough to make a useful sample. However for many of us (I include myself in this) we have modest sellers for the most part, and to get the overall volume of sales, we need more images.

If portfolio size means nothing at all, then how is it that I sell in  day what the OP does in a month? I don't have one or two huge sellers in my portfolio that are carrying the load; just a reasonable quantity of images that sell consistently.

« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2012, 13:15 »
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Hi,

Just as a comparison,

i have 427 and had 112 sales this month. Could be better, but i have always seen an increase of sales while increasing my port.

« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2012, 15:27 »
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If portfolio size means nothing at all, then how is it that I sell in  day what the OP does in a month? I don't have one or two huge sellers in my portfolio that are carrying the load; just a reasonable quantity of images that sell consistently.

Of course, you could be correct and 'size' might matter. And what I said would still be true: this correlation can't be proved, and there's no obvious logical reason for it.   Bottom line: we have no knowledge of what's really used to calculate ranking,  it might include things we might think of as weird or unfair.   My real point is that I can only go by my own experience, which is that I was steadily adding salable images while seeing only a small overall increase in sales.  I can speak only for myself.

In the time since I stopped submitting new images (well mostly anyway), my SS sales have in fact gone up.   I assume this is because of popularity-based ranking.





« Last Edit: August 24, 2012, 15:43 by stockastic »

« Reply #10 on: August 24, 2012, 16:01 »
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Size does matter but it's never just a simple matter of double portfolio size => double the earnings.
If it was that simple I would be now a billionaire. :D

« Reply #11 on: August 24, 2012, 16:32 »
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Size does matter but it's never just a simple matter of double portfolio size => double the earnings.
If it was that simple I would be now a billionaire. :D

Exactly^^ There are some people who do well with only a few hundred images because they are extremely useful to buyers.  Others like me who shoot more basic images tend to compete more and get less for the effort.  And it also has to do with other things: keywording, search favoritism, and a good kabuki dance.

digitalexpressionimages

« Reply #12 on: August 24, 2012, 16:54 »
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Size does matter but it's never just a simple matter of double portfolio size => double the earnings.
If it was that simple I would be now a billionaire. :D

Exactly^^ There are some people who do well with only a few hundred images because they are extremely useful to buyers.  Others like me who shoot more basic images tend to compete more and get less for the effort.  And it also has to do with other things: keywording, search favoritism, and a good kabuki dance.

I think you nailed it. With 20 million images in their catalog and room for only about 100 on the first page of search results plus many buyers not going past page 3 in the results (just like with google) where you end up in the search has a direct impact on sales figures. No one knows how they determine rank but portfolio size might be a factor. Those with large ports have proven they are serious, determined and committed contributors and they may get an extra boost in the ranking for that.

So that means there just might be a magic number that changes your search rank.

« Reply #13 on: August 24, 2012, 17:45 »
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No one knows how they determine rank but portfolio size might be a factor. Those with large ports have proven they are serious, determined and committed contributors and they may get an extra boost in the ranking for that.

So that means there just might be a magic number that changes your search rank.

Yet another ridiculous conspiracy theory to supposedly explain a poor performer's lack of sales. How about the theory that it's a actually a very simple meritocracy for both individual images and individual contributors? That's what it looks like to me. SS is a business that succeeds primarily by giving it's customers what they need __ most importantly a good accurate search engine that delivers the best and most relevant images to the keywords they used. Screwing the search algorithm up with nonsense factors, in the way that IS has done for years (always pushing their most expensive and exclusive content first), is a recipe for disaster and IS have suffered the consequences. Oringer is a businessman; the people running Istock for the last few years were just idiots. That's why they've lost out so quickly and so spectacularly, even in  a rising market, from a position of almost total dominance.

« Reply #14 on: August 24, 2012, 17:46 »
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So that means there just might be a magic number that changes your search rank.


dont know but I dont think they are giving more exposure because of the portfolio size, looking at my sales for today, I can see most of them on the first or second pages (most popular) and I am talking about the most important keyword (like spices, man, wedding, etc) mainly I am searching the keyword with the highest % that buyers looked to download those files, take a look at http://submit.shutterstock.com/darkroom/gallery.mhtml

looking there I have a photo with 22 sales, searching for the top keyword (that has 40% of the total downloads) it shows up on the 1st page (most popular) and why does that happen? portfolio size? of course not, gotta be because most of the files there dont have many sales so it deserves that place

today, like always, I have some sales from old files (2 or 3 years old), I am talking about photos with 3 or 4 downloads that are very low in the searches, these were found for sure because buyers looked with many keywords, if not I dont understand how they have managed to see it



« Last Edit: August 24, 2012, 17:47 by luissantos84 »

« Reply #15 on: August 24, 2012, 17:47 »
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No one knows how they determine rank but portfolio size might be a factor. Those with large ports have proven they are serious, determined and committed contributors and they may get an extra boost in the ranking for that.

So that means there just might be a magic number that changes your search rank.

Yet another ridiculous conspiracy theory to supposedly explain a poor performer's lack of sales. How about the theory that it's a actually a very simple meritocracy for both individual images and individual contributors? That's what it looks like to me. SS is a business that succeeds primarily by giving it's customers what they need __ most importantly a good accurate search engine that delivers the best and most relevant images to the keywords they used. Screwing the search algorithm up with nonsense factors, in the way that IS has done for years (always pushing their most expensive and exclusive content first), is a recipe for disaster and IS have suffered the consequences. Oringer is a businessman; the people running Istock for the last few years were just idiots. That's why they've lost out so quickly and so spectacularly, even in  a rising market, from a position of almost total dominance.

+1

RacePhoto

« Reply #16 on: August 24, 2012, 22:30 »
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In 2011 SS reportedly sold just under $60M images from a library averaging 15M images over that period. Therefore an 'average image' sells roughly 4x per year. To be an average performer your portfolio of 200 images should attract about 67 sales per month.

If that's not happening then you might need to work on the quality, diversity and saleability of your images. New images can attract early sales but after that they need to be good enough to climb the sort order in their subject matter for sales to be sustained.

I'm below average according to the numbers you hypothesized. (and deserve to be) But to save anyone the trouble of looking, there's some CrapStock in there for numbers and because of that, total images = X average downloads is an oversimplified, flawed evaluation.

Good images sell, poor images will languish. I have one that sells about once a day (I wish I had 50 of those!) I have an image that was from the original ten, that has never sold. Newest accepted image from a couple months ago, has never sold. I may never sell. It passed review, it's a "nice" shot, but it's not as good as what a buyer will find from someone else.

While your numbers are good and factual for good images, it always comes down to, are the images marketable? 1000 average images won't get as many sales as 200 knock out good images.

OP, even though there's a small boost for new, after one month, you are on your own. It's you vs 15 million competing images. You actually seem to have good sales for being new and only having 100 images. Nice work!

Someone else who knows more than I do, says, you need 1000 good images to have a flow of sales throughout the month. So keep making images and when you have 1000, things should be running smoothly. No there is no direct relationship between more images means more sales. It seems to be a small incline and constant gain, not a steep growth. But sales do increase with more images.


« Reply #17 on: August 25, 2012, 01:13 »
+1
I remember struggling this time of the year when my portfolio was in the hundreds.  It should pick up towards the end of September.  My portfolio was 1,500 after 6 months, mostly working part time.  SS were selling almost everything I uploaded back in 06/07, it's harder now and I think quality is more important.

My sales really took off when I had a few images that were big sellers.  The more you upload, the more likely you are to have some of those.

« Reply #18 on: August 25, 2012, 01:25 »
+1
Someone might have already mentioned this, but I believe the boost that large ports seem to receive is due to the buyer saying "Well I like that picture, I wonder if he/she has more I wold like."  The larger your port, the more likely you'll get these additional sales.  I see sales in clusters of similar themes all the time, which suggests I'm regularly selling multiple pics to a single buyer.

« Reply #19 on: August 25, 2012, 02:54 »
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   Thanks for the replies. Although I find some of them true and logical, it seems that weird things do happen with my images. They are not commercial pictures and I am a beginner in photography, but I can't understand why I don't have dlds on files that show in the first page at popular after 3-4 months. For eg, I have a wildlife picture(not commercial, I know) of a roe deer. It is a picture of a wild animal, and I see that these pictures sell better than the ones taken in enclosures. It had 6 dlds in the first 2 weeks, then nothing. After 3 months another one. Now, if you search for "roe deer", it's on the first row of the first page from 15 pages. If you simply go for "deer", it's on the second page from 326. Now it is there for a long time without dlds. Why it was downloaded first and now nothing? I really don't know how they can mannipulate the searches, or if our searches resembles the custumer's. I have another eg, and then I stopped searching, as I found these egs. very illogical.
   And I checked the earnings for the last 3 months, cause some of you said that only new content from my port sell, as the older images are not commercial enough and they drown in the big library: 20% of the earnings from last 3 months is from new content. Now maybe the problem is that my new content is only cr@p.
   Another thing that I don't understand is why I have 4-5 days with sales and then 3-4 without any. It's a pattern that comes on and on for months.
   Anyway, thanks a lot for the replies as I find something to learn from them.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2012, 03:00 by tavi »

Wim

« Reply #20 on: August 25, 2012, 03:11 »
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   Thanks for the replies. Although I find some of them true and logical, it seems that weird things do happen with my images. They are not commercial pictures and I am a beginner in photography, but I can't understand why I don't have dlds on files that show in the first page at popular after 3-4 months. For eg, I have a wildlife picture(not commercial, I know) of a roe deer. It is a picture of a wild animal, and I see that these pictures sell better than the ones taken in enclosures. It had 6 dlds in the first 2 weeks, then nothing. After 3 months another one. Now, if you search for "roe deer", it's on the first row of the first page from 15 pages. If you simply go for "deer", it's on the second page from 326. Now it is there for a long time without dlds. Why it was downloaded first and now nothing? I really don't know how they can mannipulate the searches, or if our searches resembles the custumer's. I have another eg, and then I stopped searching, as I found these egs. very illogical.
   And I checked the earnings for the last 3 months, cause some of you said that only new content from my port sell, as the older images are not commercial enough and they drown in the big library: 20% of the earnings from last 3 months is from new content. Now maybe the problem is that my new content is only cr@p.
   Anyway, thanks a lot for the replies as I find something to learn from them.

This is something I'm still wondering about on SS.
I have a lot of images on the first pages in popular search, not after months but since day one, even in first or second place and yes even with the recent search changes yet sales do not reflect this.
This seems to be related to window shoppers but I'm not so sure about that.

Any thoughts on this lads?

@Tavi, a deer might not be the kind of images that sell on a regular base but to be sure you will have to ask someone that sells the same kind of imagery, Matt Gibson for instance.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2012, 03:13 by Wim »

« Reply #21 on: August 25, 2012, 03:30 »
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   I know the deer is not commercial. But the second eg. is a photo of red beads over white. If you search for "red beads", it's on the first row of the first page out of 174 pages. If you go for "beads", it's on the second page out of 647. And it did not sell in the first days, it has sold after 2 months, four times in two weeks. Then nothing again. Now it is in front if you search by popular, but I think it hasn't after two months without any dlds. And for all that it had a boots for a moment.
   After these two, I stoped checking as I really don't understand anything from these ones.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2012, 03:34 by tavi »

« Reply #22 on: August 25, 2012, 03:41 »
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   Sometimes I think they look at your $, not at the number of dlds. My revenue per dld is 0.75$ at SS, so I think it's over the average. My concern is about no. of dlds that is not growing with the port, not for $, cause as I said, the 0.25 dlds are 30% of my earnings by now. When I have an EL(it happened twice),  I know will see 4-5 days without any dlds. Seems like someone says: "Now it's enough for you. You'll have to wait for a while"

Wim

« Reply #23 on: August 25, 2012, 03:52 »
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   I know the deer is not commercial. But the second eg. is a photo of red beads over white. If you search for "red beads", it's on the first row of the first page out of 174 pages. If you go for "beads", it's on the second page out of 647. And it did not sell in the first days, it has sold after 2 months, four times in two weeks. Then nothing again. Now it is in front if you search by popular, but I think it hasn't after two months without any dlds. And for all that it had a boots for a moment.
   After these two, I stoped checking as I really don't understand anything from these ones.

Alright, tavi, first, your keywords need work because "Red" isn't even one of them (spheres, balls?)
The image will still sell but probably not as often as you would like because I do not think red beads is a popular topic either.
You do have a point that sales on very popular images are not consistent but that might have to do with the search engine changes or bugs (disappearing images)
With all the changes that have been going on lately, even for top contributors, it's hard to make any sense of it all ;)
Keep uploading and try to work on quality (lighting, composition, cropping) and don't worry too much about sales yet ;)

Good luck and take care.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2012, 04:49 by Wim »

« Reply #24 on: August 25, 2012, 04:06 »
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   Wim, thanks for the optimistic advice. I will check my keywords as there might be a part of the problem. But I don't know what you mean by red isn't there, cause it is. It is on the description and the image shows in the search by word "red". Now I'll add that in the Keywords too and see what happens. Thanks again.


 

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