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Author Topic: Opt Out of Enhanced Licenses at SS #OptInWhenTheyPayUp  (Read 37162 times)

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Chichikov

« Reply #125 on: January 31, 2016, 11:46 »
+5
Another thought - sorry, it is very negative-

As the growing economies of countries like China and India continue, they will have a potentially MASSIVE growth in the middle income class. As these people income grows, they will be able to buy products sich as dslr's and join in on microstock too, further contributing to these bast image libraries. And for them, earning $50-75 / month is a nice etra income, whereas that is peanuts to those in first world countries.

What you call "first world countries" are already third world countries, but they do not know it yet


« Reply #126 on: January 31, 2016, 13:42 »
+2
Another thought - sorry, it is very negative-

As the growing economies of countries like China and India continue, they will have a potentially MASSIVE growth in the middle income class. As these people income grows, they will be able to buy products sich as dslr's and join in on microstock too, further contributing to these bast image libraries. And for them, earning $50-75 / month is a nice etra income, whereas that is peanuts to those in first world countries.

What you call "first world countries" are already third world countries, but they do not know it yet

Such as?

« Reply #127 on: January 31, 2016, 15:15 »
+13
^^ Oh no. Lets not derail this thread via political ideologies.

Jo Ann, kudos to you for taking a stand, whatever outcome positive or negative.
I too have opted out of EL after thinking further about all this nonsense taking place.
Thank you for starting this, and to all that are willing to support this.

« Reply #128 on: January 31, 2016, 15:31 »
0
for one comment above (supermarket parallel):

 if there is no supermarket (which "only" sells farmers product) - yes, you'll have to drive/walk/whatever 100miles to the nearest farm, and trade with farmer directly.

 if there is no farmer - anywhere/nowhere - you can go and try to find one in first-class private jet - but, having in mind there is no farmer - you won't eat. - no farmer-no food supply. food/farmer is "older" than supermarket.

 i was selling my images before microstock, and i'll sell them after microstock as well - if there is demand for content. somehow, there will be the way from customer  to producer. but, you guess - if there is no images - there is no images.
Sooner rather than later, you will realize that you will prefer to pay someone to drive those 100 miles for you, because that time will be better spent by you, doing what you are expert in: being a professor, an engineer, a photographer, etc.

Actually this happens today, in Venezuela's crippled economy, where black market "professional buyers" offer their services to those who can't afford to queue for hours, in front of those empty "supermarkets", waiting for food to arrive.

Now, replace "supermarket" with "agency", replace yourself, the "food buyer" with our clients, the "photo buyers", and you will understand that agencies are here to stay.

Again, this doesn't mean that I enjoy these EL royalty cuts, but one must be realistic in expectations and demands.

Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk
« Last Edit: January 31, 2016, 16:16 by Zero Talent »

Chichikov

« Reply #129 on: January 31, 2016, 15:54 »
+2
^^ Oh no. Lets not derail this thread via political ideologies.

[]
Nothing to do with political ideologies, it is just ineluctable, Asian countries will dominate the world in the next 50 years.
Only a global war could inverse the process now.
But we are off topic.
Sorry.

dpimborough

« Reply #130 on: January 31, 2016, 16:07 »
+13
Jo Ann kindly set this thread up to discuss opting out of SS enhanced licenses in order to highlight a major issue in their changing attitude to contributors

I am not at all interested in what goes on in China, India or any other country or ideology political or otherwise.

Are you opting out yes or no ?

When Fotolia brought in Dollar Photo Club the microstock community rose up and took action with over 6 million images removed from DPC.  It can be done again for these EL changes.


I care what happens to our earnings I opted out
« Last Edit: February 01, 2016, 04:06 by Teddy the Cat »

« Reply #131 on: January 31, 2016, 21:01 »
+5
Jo ann, thanks for this post. I also opted out of this money grab as i have done in the past whenever it mattered. And to the folks that are on the sidelines and saying it doesn't matter, it only is that way because you make it that way.
I think this place is pretty important for getting the news about this industry and if you as a contributor is making any significant income through microstock, this is the place you get your info.
If you really think this isn't going to matter, just do it for the first 3 months. that is enough time for the agency to realize if enough contributors opt out of this deal to make things better for the contributors.

« Reply #132 on: January 31, 2016, 21:16 »
0
Jo ann, thanks for this post. I also opted out of this money grab as i have done in the past whenever it mattered. And to the folks that are on the sidelines and saying it doesn't matter, it only is that way because you make it that way.
I think this place is pretty important for getting the news about this industry and if you as a contributor is making any significant income through microstock, this is the place you get your info.
If you really think this isn't going to matter, just do it for the first 3 months. that is enough time for the agency to realize if enough contributors opt out of this deal to make things better for the contributors.

Im out but it's not "those on the mcrostock on sidelines that count" more than the masses who don't read these forums, who don't tweet and those who don't stay informed. That is the real opportunity to poke Jon in the eye with a sharp stick.

Don't misread what I am saying. I am all for this. I just believe that SS has so many images flowing in that it would take far more today to send a message than back when Fotolia wasn't accepting foods of images but forcing contributors into DPC.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2016, 21:18 by Mantis »

« Reply #133 on: February 01, 2016, 00:13 »
+5
Could someone provide a comparison between enhanced licenses provided by major agencies (SS, FT, IS, 123RF, etc) and the royalties they pay?

I don't have one already made up, and you could do the research as easily as anyone else if you want to make a chart. It's hard to make apples to apples comparisons though.

For example, 123rf splits out different rights (as does DT) so they have limited, print and comprehensive ELs. The comprehensive EL netted me $37.35 last year for the 100 credit purchase (exact amount will vary depending on buyer's purchase price; I found one a few months before that netting $36.00).

DT's extended license royalties are priced differently based on image level as well. But when you consider that their rights are sold la carte as opposed to one bundled set at SS, DT's royalties of up to $17 at level 0 and $30 at level 5 are greater than SS. I can't remember the last time I got an EL at DT though.

Today I got a LEL in 123RF for $2.20

« Reply #134 on: February 01, 2016, 08:33 »
0
In one of the German stock groups someone reported a sale fpr 32,12  usd.

of course there are others reporting lower values as well.


« Reply #136 on: February 01, 2016, 08:48 »
+3
I got one for $16.30. I'm in 28% tier. Even under 25 EL package, which is their cheapest as far as I know, I should get at least $19. So, I guess SS have already started to offer cheaper EL packages to some of their customers. We will soon see $5 ELs. :-(

« Reply #137 on: February 01, 2016, 10:20 »
+1

« Reply #138 on: February 01, 2016, 10:29 »
+1
Today I got a LEL in 123RF for $2.20

The "Limited" part in that EL is different for every sale - 123rf has been asked but they don't publish anything about what rights can be had for what amount of credits or $$. I don't much like the lack of transparency regarding what rights were sold.

« Reply #139 on: February 01, 2016, 10:43 »
+2
Today I got a LEL in 123RF for $2.20

The "Limited" part in that EL is different for every sale - 123rf has been asked but they don't publish anything about what rights can be had for what amount of credits or $$. I don't much like the lack of transparency regarding what rights were sold.

Who knows how limited it is.... Not only SS, most of these agencies exploit their contributors >:(

« Reply #140 on: February 01, 2016, 10:45 »
+4
the joke goes on...

http://forums.submit.shutterstock.com/topic/87757-enhanced-license-change-follow-up/


I suggested another approach in my reply there:

"Way back when, Shutterstock would change the prices (of subscriptions) to buyers and then, after a month or so to evaluate buying patterns would set a new rate for contributors. That seemed pretty reasonable and I don't recall any fuss made in the contributor community at the time. Yes, Shutterstock was taking in more money without paying out any more, but it was clear what was going on and we could see the growth.
 
If you really think you can increase the volume of Enhanced Licenses, why not take the same approach? Keep our $28 payout for a while - which doesn't require you to lose money even at substantial reductions from the current $99.50, $89.80 & $67.96 each - and once you have several months of increased volume to show us, set a percentage rate for the payouts?"

marthamarks

« Reply #141 on: February 01, 2016, 10:53 »
+4
the joke goes on...

http://forums.submit.shutterstock.com/topic/87757-enhanced-license-change-follow-up/


Thanks, you four Sean, Jo Ann, Shelma, and Linn for your good comments in that thread.

This really isn't the time to just roll over and take it yet again. I'm happy to be opted-out of SS ELs.


OM

« Reply #142 on: February 01, 2016, 12:58 »
+2
I won't be opting out of EL's for the simple reason that in the 3 years I've been at SS, I've had 31 EL's @$28 and in the 7 years I've been at FT (with 15% more images), I've had 5 EL's. Even pricing my EL's at 70 credits (instead of my max 100 credits) of which I get 25% doesn't get them sold at FT. I'll take 'em when I can get 'em at SS.

« Reply #143 on: February 01, 2016, 14:49 »
+2
I won't be opting out of EL's for the simple reason that in the 3 years I've been at SS, I've had 31 EL's @$28 and in the 7 years I've been at FT (with 15% more images), I've had 5 EL's. Even pricing my EL's at 70 credits (instead of my max 100 credits) of which I get 25% doesn't get them sold at FT. I'll take 'em when I can get 'em at SS.

Just curious, at what point do you think will be too low of a payout for you not to opt out? It was easy for me to opt out of this deal as I thought $28 was a bit lower than what i should be getting compensated for someone else to reproduce/print my content for their own financial benefit. It should be at minimum 50% but then thats never gonna happen. I probably average  2 EL a month here and opting out will save me the grief of thinking about SS bigger take.

On another note, this move by shutterstock is making it more easier not to submit to this agency as i see the clear direction it is going forward with this move.

Ill take em when i can get em sounds a lot like thank you may i have another to me.

« Reply #144 on: February 01, 2016, 15:35 »
+2
I won't be opting out of EL's for the simple reason that in the 3 years I've been at SS, I've had 31 EL's @$28 and in the 7 years I've been at FT (with 15% more images), I've had 5 EL's. Even pricing my EL's at 70 credits (instead of my max 100 credits) of which I get 25% doesn't get them sold at FT. I'll take 'em when I can get 'em at SS.

I just pictured a banner above Jon's desk. "They'll take 'em when they can get em".  :)

Tryingmybest

  • Stand up for what is right
« Reply #145 on: February 01, 2016, 16:10 »
+2

« Reply #146 on: February 01, 2016, 16:12 »
+1
the royalty cut is quite severe when they also cut the selling price, even without the price cut, it would already have a big impact. i would not be surprised to see a 50-75% CUT on our ROYALTY

OM

« Reply #147 on: February 01, 2016, 18:51 »
+4
I won't be opting out of EL's for the simple reason that in the 3 years I've been at SS, I've had 31 EL's @$28 and in the 7 years I've been at FT (with 15% more images), I've had 5 EL's. Even pricing my EL's at 70 credits (instead of my max 100 credits) of which I get 25% doesn't get them sold at FT. I'll take 'em when I can get 'em at SS.

Just curious, at what point do you think will be too low of a payout for you not to opt out? It was easy for me to opt out of this deal as I thought $28 was a bit lower than what i should be getting compensated for someone else to reproduce/print my content for their own financial benefit. It should be at minimum 50% but then thats never gonna happen. I probably average  2 EL a month here and opting out will save me the grief of thinking about SS bigger take.

On another note, this move by shutterstock is making it more easier not to submit to this agency as i see the clear direction it is going forward with this move.

Ill take em when i can get em sounds a lot like thank you may i have another to me.

Either I quit microstock altogether or I take what's on offer. I have no power as an invidual to divert corporations from their corporate interests....and that's always been, more for them and less for me. If, at some point, the revenue stream from ms falls below a level that I consider not worth the effort, then I'll just stop providing them with content...in the full knowledge that there's thousands of other suckers prepared to do what I wasn't.

At present, the ms revenue stream is just one of a few others but I'm content with the present income when balanced with the effort invested. When the balance  becomes inverted, I'll just have to find some other way to restore it to positive.

jonbull

    This user is banned.
« Reply #148 on: February 02, 2016, 11:01 »
+2
I won't be opting out of EL's for the simple reason that in the 3 years I've been at SS, I've had 31 EL's @$28 and in the 7 years I've been at FT (with 15% more images), I've had 5 EL's. Even pricing my EL's at 70 credits (instead of my max 100 credits) of which I get 25% doesn't get them sold at FT. I'll take 'em when I can get 'em at SS.

Just curious, at what point do you think will be too low of a payout for you not to opt out? It was easy for me to opt out of this deal as I thought $28 was a bit lower than what i should be getting compensated for someone else to reproduce/print my content for their own financial benefit. It should be at minimum 50% but then thats never gonna happen. I probably average  2 EL a month here and opting out will save me the grief of thinking about SS bigger take.

On another note, this move by shutterstock is making it more easier not to submit to this agency as i see the clear direction it is going forward with this move.

Ill take em when i can get em sounds a lot like thank you may i have another to me.

Either I quit microstock altogether or I take what's on offer. I have no power as an invidual to divert corporations from their corporate interests....and that's always been, more for them and less for me. If, at some point, the revenue stream from ms falls below a level that I consider not worth the effort, then I'll just stop providing them with content...in the full knowledge that there's thousands of other suckers prepared to do what I wasn't.

At present, the ms revenue stream is just one of a few others but I'm content with the present income when balanced with the effort invested. When the balance  becomes inverted, I'll just have to find some other way to restore it to positive.

i agree....i repeat complaining about the lost of 7 dollar for a EL, considering the real state of the micro stock market is like the man who watch the finger and forgot the moon.
the problem is that EL are completely dead. thy messed with standard royalty, in the run down to the penny to have more customer, killing completely EL.
The only thing we can do is stocks way at this moment....i mean...1000 of stockers who are not spammers or third world photographer who upload 40 k at month, leave all agency and create a new one.-

Rinderart

« Reply #149 on: February 02, 2016, 12:32 »
+3
A great Piece Posted on SS by Aspenphoto.

"Two things....

(1) Every movement starts with one person deciding they have had enough. Not comparing our issues to theirs in terms of severity...but from Mother Jones in the coal fields or silk mills to Rosa Parks in Birmingham to Mohamed Bouazizi in Tunisia and the Arab Spring movement...change starts with one....always. Again, their causes were life and death, human rights and against governments corruption. We are calling for common decency in an organization that trots out words like "partner" and fails to understand the meaning of the word at a basic level.

(2) Even if it does not lead to change on a large scale at SS, eventually an individual just has enough. I, and think others, am at that point. Enough...enough double talk, enough disrespect to my work and common sense. I (and others have as well) have taken a relatively small step to remove my portfolio from the EL pool. Yes that is only 15K images in a pool of millions. BUT, I had enough personally....this was a message that is clearly tied to the last BS double speak e-mail/messaging. I am actively exploring moving all 15K+ images I have to other streams. Maybe it will make no difference, but maybe a corporate entity will come here looking for that shot of a NCAA football player that I would have provided and it will only be available on a competitor. My action will then have a consequence to SS.

 

Do what you think is right for you. Some, sadly, are tied to revenue here for a living. I feel for them. But if you are financially able, opt out of ELs. Don't let this flicker away into the ethos like other SS slights have...


 

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