Author Topic: Opt Out of Enhanced Licenses at SS #OptInWhenTheyPayUp (Read 37457 times)

cobalt · « **Reply #175 on:** February 03, 2016, 03:34 »

There is a third option between opting in and opting out:

Upload the good stuff elsewhere and support fair trade sites.

This is not a black and white situation.

Microstockphoto · « **Reply #176 on:** February 03, 2016, 03:35 »

rinderart, gbalex, did you opt out?

r2d2 · « **Reply #177 on:** February 03, 2016, 04:02 »

Quote from: PixelBytes on February 02, 2016, 23:34

Quote from: Shelma1 on February 02, 2016, 21:55
There always have been and always will be a certain percentage of people who don't care, can't be bothered, think nothing can make a difference, cross picket lines, etc.

Yet unions do form and people do protest and change does happen.

I'm all for unions. They are effective if you can get the majority of workers to join, pay dues, and support collective bargaining. Do we have a union representing us? Negotiating with top management on our behalf? Where do I send my dues payment?

No?? Then this is just another shitstorm (good word Elena).

Yes we need a union to force our interests. We should form a club with a small membership fee. Once in a year we can vote for what the membership fee should used (maybe an action or create an best agencie award etc.).

Thats could be a beginning of a unity...

Microstockphoto · « **Reply #178 on:** February 03, 2016, 04:04 »

tried/suggested a million times, will never happen

r2d2 · « **Reply #179 on:** February 03, 2016, 04:11 »

Quote from: Microstockphoto on February 03, 2016, 04:04

tried/suggested a million times, will never happen

Why it will never happen? it will happen when the race to to the bottom is painful enough its a question of time.

Microstockphoto · « **Reply #180 on:** February 03, 2016, 04:15 »

unless you get 30% of the contributors on board including some top contributors, we will not make a difference. thats not being negative, thats being realistic. the factories wont join in, they have a responsibility to pay people on their payroll. we have also seen when yuri left, taking 110k images and millions in dollars, ss just let him go without blinking. why do you think ss limited the amount of images you can delete at 1 time? because theyve learned from istock dday and the dpc revolt. they knew al along they were going to cut royalties, and more will come. we will see a drop in royalties until this business becomes unsustainable for the amateurs. and only then, when the microstock business defaults, we will see a change. but that will be a long way from now, look at getty, they keep dragging themselves along when they have been broke for years now. the bubble will burst, but dont hold your breath

sharpshot · « **Reply #181 on:** February 03, 2016, 04:36 »

We lost the war 5 years ago when many of us were willing to leave istock after cutting commissions below 20% but too many just carried on uploading. Since then, we could of changed things at any time by supporting the sites that pay 50% but lots of people just complain that they have low sales. There's no point winning the odd battle when you are going to lose the war.

If people want to get serious about this, I have no problem leaving sites that have cut commissions and pay less than 40% if the vast majority of contributors do the same. Until that happens, the sites have us exactly where they want us.

r2d2 · « **Reply #182 on:** February 03, 2016, 04:37 »

Quote from: Microstockphoto on February 03, 2016, 04:15

unless you get 30% of the contributors on board including some top contributors, we will not make a difference. thats not being negative, thats being realistic. the factories wont join in, they have a responsibility to pay people on their payroll. we have also seen when yuri left, taking 110k images and millions in dollars, ss just let him go without blinking. why do you think ss limited the amount of images you can delete at 1 time? because theyve learned from istock dday and the dpc revolt. they knew al along they were going to cut royalties, and more will come. we will see a drop in royalties until this business becomes unsustainable for the amateurs. and only then, when the microstock business defaults, we will see a change. but that will be a long way from now, look at getty, they keep dragging themselves along when they have been broke for years now. the bubble will burst, but dont hold your breath

You are right a long time... If there are agencie splits of 70% and more there is enough money in the business. Its time for agencie comission cut.
Lets annoy shareholders

...

sharpshot · « **Reply #183 on:** February 03, 2016, 04:42 »

Quote from: r2d2 on February 03, 2016, 04:11

Quote from: Microstockphoto on February 03, 2016, 04:04
tried/suggested a million times, will never happen

Why it will never happen? it will happen when the race to to the bottom is painful enough its a question of time.

15% with istock isn't painful enough, I dread to think what will be, maybe when we have to start paying the sites for the privilege of selling our images?

cobalt · « **Reply #184 on:** February 03, 2016, 04:49 »

Us uploading to fair trade sites is not enough. You need one that has the drive and ambition to become the best agency on the planet and are willing to have an agency with hundreds of employees.

If they just want the place to feed their family and 10 employees they won't make enough for us.

They really need to make a VERY public stand they are here to stay and want to be the best.

Unfortunately, I am not hearing that. Instead they are all claiming I want to be King of my tiny little niche and nobody wants to offer the customer and the artist a complete solution.

So...we all need to diversify and work with many different places.

Sorry, don't want to derail the thread.

Again, I am opted in because I believe there is a genuine opportunity to increase sales and I prefer a system that is based on percentage.

But I don't have all my content there, files not suitable for high volume downloads don't go there.

r2d2 · « **Reply #185 on:** February 03, 2016, 04:58 »

Quote from: sharpshot on February 03, 2016, 04:42

Quote from: r2d2 on February 03, 2016, 04:11
Quote from: Microstockphoto on February 03, 2016, 04:04
tried/suggested a million times, will never happen

Why it will never happen? it will happen when the race to to the bottom is painful enough its a question of time.
15% with istock isn't painful enough, I dread to think what will be, maybe when we have to start paying the sites for the privilege of selling our images?

apparently not. Seems that the major contributors still live well

panicAttack · « **Reply #186 on:** February 03, 2016, 05:19 »

Only good thing in all this mess is that high quality photographers with highest quality (technically, commercially and artistic) work will start to value their photos again and turn back to macrostock and microstock will be for low quality, cheap and mobile photography kind of snapshots.

edit: designers will again start to search for more quality/different contest and that will be some kind of end for microstock..

we just need one more site like stocksy, with image exclusivity, high prices, high quality BUT without that need for instagram retro feel. I will first submit my best work to site like that.

Shelma1 · « **Reply #187 on:** February 03, 2016, 05:43 »

Quote from: PixelBytes on February 02, 2016, 23:34

Quote from: Shelma1 on February 02, 2016, 21:55
There always have been and always will be a certain percentage of people who don't care, can't be bothered, think nothing can make a difference, cross picket lines, etc.

Yet unions do form and people do protest and change does happen.

I'm all for unions. They are effective if you can get the majority of workers to join, pay dues, and support collective bargaining. Do we have a union representing us? Negotiating with top management on our behalf? Where do I send my dues payment?

Like I said, there will always be a small percentage of people who are naysayers and always have something negative to say.

Chichikov · « **Reply #188 on:** February 03, 2016, 08:11 »

Quote from: Rinderart on February 03, 2016, 01:39

Quote from: Chichikov on January 29, 2016, 02:47
Quote from: Microstockphoto on January 29, 2016, 02:33
Quote from: Rinderart on January 29, 2016, 00:41
Good Luck.

your a front runner when it comes to complaining about ss and taking action, here is action, and you wish them good luck instead of joining? my my

I think that Laurin has very more serious problems than to opt out now…

OK....I'll bite since you think you know me.. what might those problems be? Please be very specific.

As there is a thread rolling out your problems of surgery on the Shutterstock forum* I have thought that it was legitimate to believe that you have more important problems in life than opting out, or not, for the EL licence on Shutterstock… Nothing more.

* http://forums.submit.shutterstock.com/topic/76420-laurins-surgery/page-1?hl=laurin
But I'm probably wrong, sorry

YadaYadaYada · « **Reply #189 on:** February 03, 2016, 12:26 »

Quote from: sharpshot on February 03, 2016, 04:42

Quote from: r2d2 on February 03, 2016, 04:11
Quote from: Microstockphoto on February 03, 2016, 04:04
tried/suggested a million times, will never happen

Why it will never happen? it will happen when the race to to the bottom is painful enough its a question of time.
15% with istock isn't painful enough, I dread to think what will be, maybe when we have to start paying the sites for the privilege of selling our images?

We already do FAA, Photoshelter and those.

etudiante_rapide · « **Reply #190 on:** February 03, 2016, 12:44 »

Quote from: sharpshot on February 03, 2016, 04:36

We lost the war 5 years ago when many of us were willing to leave istock after cutting commissions below 20% but too many just carried on uploading.

one question i need to ask you. istock is still alive and well...
according to the right column.. 38.4% exclusive 110.9

it did not fail for many; only failed for us who left istock during that time.

Quote from: cobalt on February 03, 2016, 03:34

There is a third option between opting in and opting out:

Upload the good stuff elsewhere and support fair trade sites.

This is not a black and white situation.

like where??? fair trade sites promising fair share, cobalt???
fair-share of 0 = 0
show me a site that sells daily as ss sells for me, and i will be there in a jiffy.
afaik, all the new fair trade sites are still after many years in single digit or low earners.
the new sites have 0 track record or is not open to all. and their images are not really
sustainable ... much like art-pop images, they don't last with generations.
that is like investing in penny stocks... you go broke in the long run...

back to istock, obviously it does work for some ppl ie. exclusive.
so istock , as much as i hate their performance which is now being aped by ss
to rewrite history to damnation, it is * for the majority, but not to a chosen few.

i think the answer is be those chosen few that is going to make ss open to communication.
as i said before, shouting here and at the forum is like screaming at the groundfloor concierge
and clubbing the delivery boy.
you have to find a way to talk to Jon O or the shareholders or the clients.

how??? i don't know. if i do, i won't be here talking either

PixelBytes · « **Reply #191 on:** February 03, 2016, 13:20 »

Quote from: Shelma1 on February 03, 2016, 05:43

Quote from: PixelBytes on February 02, 2016, 23:34
Quote from: Shelma1 on February 02, 2016, 21:55
There always have been and always will be a certain percentage of people who don't care, can't be bothered, think nothing can make a difference, cross picket lines, etc.

Yet unions do form and people do protest and change does happen.

I'm all for unions. They are effective if you can get the majority of workers to join, pay dues, and support collective bargaining. Do we have a union representing us? Negotiating with top management on our behalf? Where do I send my dues payment?

Like I said, there will always be a small percentage of people who are naysayers and always have something negative to say.

I'm dead serious. I would join a union or trade association today if we had one. Its called organized labor for a reason. We are not organized. Until we are, all these calls for boycotts don't have any measueable effect on the agencies. Unions don't just spring up by magic. Unless you are actively taking steps to start one and organize, this is just a lot of hot air.

Shelma1 · « **Reply #192 on:** February 03, 2016, 13:42 »

Why wait for someone else to start a union? Why not start one yourself? Why do people complain and say nothing will help when others are actually doing something—even something as minor as opting out—but then also expect those other people who are actually doing something to step up and do even more before they'll consider doing anything themselves, however minor.

Fotolia lost millions of images in DPC very quickly, gave us an opt out, and is now no longer actively promoting it. So even without a formal union we were fairly successful there. I don't know why some people don't consider that a win...I guess nothing less than instantly shutting a huge agency down is seen as "effective" by some.

I've mentioned it before...people in my neighborhood have the same attitude about a local noise nuisance, which is their excuse for doing nothing to change it. But by attending a few town meetings, starting a little Facebook page and getting my message in the newspaper, the noise has been reduced by more than 80%...just from one annoying person (me) speaking out regularly. Of course, ask my neighbors and they'll still say it's hopeless and you can't change anything, because even though 80% of the noise is gone, 20% of it is still there.

Crazy.

etudiante_rapide · « **Reply #193 on:** February 03, 2016, 14:29 »

Quote from: PixelBytes on February 03, 2016, 13:20

this is just a lot of hot air.

this is the part i agree most with you.
union solves nothing. how many times do you drive by a strike and see happy faces in the end???
a union is the other end of the extreme; one end of the abuse of the employer, the other end is the abuse of the union. both is coercsion (spelling???)
it is like child boycott or blackmail parent i will eat the veggies if you buy me that new game, if not, no dice.

the only solution with the union is really no solution. the only ppl who win in the union is your labour bosses who gets paid to cause strike every time a contract is renewed. nobody else wins... not your employer not you.

in the best companies, there are no unions. no one gets promoted by seniority or by nepotism, ..
only performance gets promoted.

same with ss problem here. we are not going to get ss to budge by being the angry strikers or the blackmailing child. we have to find a way to speak with the ppl who make the rules..
and speak with them like equals. not union, not strikers, not children, etc..

how is that going to happen??? look elsewhere other than those things like screaming, striking, blackmail, scaring, threatening,etc...
these things will only be short lived solution, like the union method.
you will have to go on strike again the next time.

cobalt · « **Reply #194 on:** February 03, 2016, 14:35 »

Quote from: etudiante_rapide on February 03, 2016, 12:44

Quote from: cobalt on February 03, 2016, 03:34
There is a third option between opting in and opting out:

Upload the good stuff elsewhere and support fair trade sites.

This is not a black and white situation.

like where??? fair trade sites promising fair share, cobalt???
fair-share of 0 = 0
show me a site that sells daily as ss sells for me, and i will be there in a jiffy.
afaik, all the new fair trade sites are still after many years in single digit or low earners.
the new sites have 0 track record or is not open to all. and their images are not really
sustainable ... much like art-pop images, they don't last with generations.
that is like investing in penny stocks... you go broke in the long run...

That is the whole point - a site where you can just upload everything without sorting by style...I think that leaves you with pond5 and maybe one of the smaller places.

Daily downloads will only happen on a site that sells subscriptions. Is that really what you want?

If you want higher priced, regular, monthly downloads, you have to sort your content by style and genre and find more specialized places. 500pix, maybe stockfood, knock on the door of stocksy,blendimages,tetra,westend61 etc...for mobile stock there are twenty20,eyeem etc...and probably many other places.

An agency that offers a system like the old istock system for exclusives - everything from subscription, midstock to macrostock, plus their editors sort your content into differently themed collections like vetta and agency...I don´t see that at the moment.

Pond5 has the best potential, but they don´t seem to be doing much with photos. For videos their system works really,really well.

So no, there is no one size fits all agency that I can recommend, but there are many, many options available if you sort your content correctly.

There is much more than Shutterstock, Fotolia, istock on the market.

Maybe this is even better for us, instead of being fully dependent on one superlarge amazonstyle marketplace.

gbalex · « **Reply #195 on:** February 03, 2016, 15:57 »

Quote from: Microstockphoto on February 03, 2016, 03:35

rinderart, gbalex, did you opt out?

Yes I did opt out as I stated earlier in this thread. This move gives shutterstock two ways to reduce the amount of royalties they pay us. One directly thru reduced royalties and the other thru increasing the number of EL's paid to lower tier contributors via increased image exposure in the search.

Quote from: gbalex on January 29, 2016, 12:11

I have opted out for the following reason:

If you think like a programmer and mathematician, which Jon does. (Remember he built the original SS site himself)

You will understand that with the new EL price tiers, shutterstock has the ability to tweak it's search to serve a larger percentage of content from lower tier contributors, to buyers. Think database queries based on port download numbers sorted by a changing contributor join date to make it less obvious to new contributors that the cards are stacked. The search can dynamically pull images out of the database based on many image parameters. Databases are powerful tools.

This new tiered royalty, gives shutterstock the ability maximizing profits further at our expense. This will help keep stock prices up and keep the wallstreet crowd happy, but sucks for us.

PixelBytes · « **Reply #196 on:** February 03, 2016, 16:17 »

Quote from: Shelma1 on February 03, 2016, 13:42

Why wait for someone else to start a union? Why not start one yourself?

You're the one who brought them up. Shouldn't you be answering that question yourself?

Don't kid yourself about DPC. I really wish it had been as successful as you say. Maybe SS would not be pulling this now. But alas, FT were full steam ahead on DPC. The opt outs didnt make a dent. It was Adobe who dropped that because it didn't fit with their business plan. The ruckus over that had absolutely no affect on DPC, FT, or its sales, as evidenced by the fact they were so attractive to be bought by no less than Adobe. Only result was some people were kicked off FT, and have been unsuccessfully trying to get back in once Adobe took over.

Zero Talent · « **Reply #197 on:** February 03, 2016, 16:27 »

Quote from: gbalex on February 03, 2016, 15:57

You will understand that with the new EL price tiers, shutterstock has the ability to tweak it's search to serve a larger percentage of content from lower tier contributors, to buyers.

Here we go again! Same old conspiracy under a new form!

If you check the EL poll, you will notice that a large majority of ELs announcements is coming from top tier contributors.

As I said, it may be the case that only top tier contributors vote on that poll, but I rather doubt it. From what I see, there are a lot of beginners on this forum, maybe more than veterans.

Anyway, the graph may actually show that your theory is only a conspiracy theory: 74% of ELs are announced by top tier contributors. While this large gap may also be caused by the fact that top tier contributors have larger ports, this evidence rather invalidates your speculations!

cathyslife · « **Reply #198 on:** February 03, 2016, 16:42 »

Quote from: PixelBytes on February 03, 2016, 16:17

Don't kid yourself about DPC. I really wish it had been as successful as you say. Maybe SS would not be pulling this now. But alas, FT were full steam ahead on DPC. The opt outs didnt make a dent. It was Adobe who dropped that because it didn't fit with their business plan. The ruckus over that had absolutely no affect on DPC, FT, or its sales, as evidenced by the fact they were so attractive to be bought by no less than Adobe. Only result was some people were kicked off FT, and have been unsuccessfully trying to get back in once Adobe took over.

Yeah, that is kind of what I thought about it, too.

I think that if DPC were in any way going to contribute big $$ to the deal, believe that Adobe would be still be marketing the heck out of it.

Microstockphoto · « **Reply #199 on:** February 03, 2016, 17:34 »

i am getting a bit tired of the finger-pointing. why is anyone not wanting to cut their income further a naysayer, naive, negative? get off your high horse. everyone has a right to do whats best for them.

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Author Topic: Opt Out of Enhanced Licenses at SS #OptInWhenTheyPayUp (Read 37457 times)

cobalt

Microstockphoto

r2d2

Microstockphoto

r2d2

Microstockphoto

sharpshot

r2d2

sharpshot

cobalt

r2d2

panicAttack

Shelma1

Chichikov

YadaYadaYada

etudiante_rapide

PixelBytes

Shelma1

etudiante_rapide

cobalt

gbalex

PixelBytes

Zero Talent

cathyslife

Microstockphoto

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