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Author Topic: payment BEFORE June 2020 and what subscription that time?  (Read 1436 times)

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« on: May 21, 2021, 05:17 »
0
Hi,

I just want to make a calculation for myself. Maybe later I let you know about my idea.
For that I need the information as follows (I forgot to save that info in the past, sorry):

BEFORE shutterstock changed everything in June 2020:

Lowest revenue for contributors were 25 Cent, isnt it? (Lowest level/ 20 or 25%?)

That time already exist subscrition which were that cheap -if used - and shutterstock paid 25 Cent to the contributors, then shutterstock makes a minus.
Which subscrition THAT time was just okay for shutterstock in that way, that they did not have a minus, but plus min, if paying the contributors that 25 Cent?

Does anybody here remember that?

To make it short:
How much a customer had to pay per image, if using the best subscrition and contributors getting their 25 Cent and shutterstock earns without minus.

I hope, you got me LOL


« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2021, 05:56 »
0
Sorry I don't have the specific answer but SS never made anything like a loss on their subs packages. Buyers use much less than the maximum allowable dls in larger packages. JO said we were getting about 20% in one of the share holder calls if I remember correctly.

« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2021, 07:47 »
0
Okay, i will include it in my calculation.


Uncle Pete

  • Great Place by a Great Lake - My Home Port
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2021, 11:13 »
+1
Sorry I don't have the specific answer but SS never made anything like a loss on their subs packages. Buyers use much less than the maximum allowable dls in larger packages. JO said we were getting about 20% in one of the share holder calls if I remember correctly.

I remember 22% but no big deal. And yes that was Jon.

You don't know what SS made or didn't in the subscriptions. There are many types of sales. We can't just say, they made 20% in 2010 so they were making 20% in 2020. And what the often repeated claim is, they don't use the subscriptions, what if buyers started to use more. Then what.

Lets allow some real math. IF the buyer of a pack, did use all their images, and SS paid us 25c a download, then they were losing money. Now if a buyer licenses all of their allowed images and we get paid 10 cents, SS is losing money. Not that I like the drop, but my point is... SS is losing less than they did before. Or from their side, whatever the real numbers, when buyers don't use their entire packages... SS makes roughly 40% more by paying us a dime than they did, paying us a quarter.

All of this is only about subscriptions and the 350 and 750 and probably the partners, who are the ones creating our wonderful ten cent commissions. The ones where SS pays us more than the percentage we are paid, because otherwise we'd be getting less than the crappy ten cents per download.

The percentages are the percentages and have nothing to do with subs. We get a percentage. So if I get 25% now, I'm getting just that. On some other agency that there are no levels, I get 15%. and fractions of a cent for some subs, and they promise a minimum of 2 cents?

for kall3bu the lowest anyone got was 25 cents for a sub. If you couldn't earn $500 and move to the next level, maybe that person should have thought of doing something else. 2,000 downloads would at the worst, ignoring ELs, ODs and Singles, that's all it took to move up to 33c a download.

Worst part of the new plan is that annual reset.

« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2021, 12:53 »
0
Okay, to the point and what is in my mind:

IF there would be an existing agency with good enough SEO and so on, so sales would be really okay - might be not same like SS, maybe more similar to Adobe or so.
If this agency would give us a garancy of minimum 25 cent per sale like SS did in the past.
1) Which subs they could offer to customer without loosing money?

22%?
Okay lets make it easy: lets say 25%.
So the lowest price for the customer would be 1 $, so the contributor could get his minimum of 25 Cent, right?
1 $ nowadays is totally to much?
Who buys these very very big subs? Big firms, who already have enough money and usually could say: No matter, if one image cost 1 $, right?
But they buy hundreds, because it is so cheap and easy. But at least they really use only 2 from 100 images? So they also do not care, if they do not use the full subs of 750 images or whatever.
And that all only because the ones who searching for the right images, cannot decide directly, if they need this or that image?

2) If this agency promise us 50%, then the real price for the customer would be 50 cent instead of 1 $. Cheaper than in 1) and nicer for the contributors too, getting 50% - even still the same 25 cent.

3) The problem is, that on pond5 the price for biggest image size is minimum 5 $ and 2,50 $ for the contributor.
Depending on each image, I would not care to get only 25 cent for most of my images, but some I would like to get money like on 'alamy (in the past). On pond5 we could control it OURSELVE by setting our own price and we can go up and down - follow the market.
Yes, pond5 will never promote the photos on their site, we know. But if pond5 does not want to do it - and we have to respect their decision, why do not WE promote it?
But HOW?
Lets think, what we could do to get more customer to pond5 and buy our photos there! If suddenly many more customer also buy photos on pond5, that would not be a problem for pond5, isnit?

I know, after SS the idea about pond5 grow also and here again in me.

But let us really think seriously, how we all together could get more Photo customer to pond5! If we find good ideas, THEN MAYBE more contributor are brave to move to pond5.

Maybe like this: Photos we not care about we still offer on that cheap agencies. But our better images (Alamy exclusive images for example), we sell on pond5.

BUT WE NEED CUSTOMER for PHOTOS on pond5!

And HOPEFULLY pond5 at the end also see their profit and our engagement and finally invest more in promoting their photo site.

Well, just a dream! Or not?
Sorry for the long text.

The only alternative would be a new agency, but thats the worst idea, I think.




Uncle Pete

  • Great Place by a Great Lake - My Home Port
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2021, 13:32 »
0
@kall3bu

We don't get a percentage, we get a minimum of 10 for subs. We do get a percentage of other sales. These are two different matters.

Levels (which stink because they reset every Jan.) are 15-20-25-30% for some sales. We used to get a percentage based on lifetime download dollars, not number of downloads.

Now about subs. We used to get a minimum of 25 until someone earned $500 which is roughly 2,000 download at 25. Pretty simple. Lifetime earnings.

Now we get a minimum of 10

Please read this carefully. Look at the third column, where the price the buyer pays is shown:



Most of our sales come from the 350 and 750 packs. Who is that and why? I haven't seen any good answers. But start at the 350 pack with the highest price for a buyer, where they pay SS 57 an image. The commission for those downloads at 15% would be = .855 cents. Less than 10 cents. Now look at the most expensive 750 pack. 33 an image, we'd get we'd get .0495 cents per download. Instead we get 10 cents.

If you care to look at the sales that don't have pink or yellow in the top 12 rows, we get paid the percentage as promised.

Yes, if we had an agency that sold images for a flat fee and we got a fixed percentage and could earn more for more sales, that would be interesting. In that case, 50% is a fair number.

You might want to look at Wirestock, because they are adding direct sales from their platform, at a fixed rate, paying us a fixed fee. None of the old foolishness of what size image, which might have mattered in real photo, but realistically, digital? Hopefully they will never introduce any subscription plan! Or if they do, it will still be a couple dollars and image, minimum.


« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2021, 05:57 »
0
@kall3bu

We don't get a percentage, we get a minimum of 10 for subs. We do get a percentage of other sales. These are two different matters.

Levels (which stink because they reset every Jan.) are 15-20-25-30% for some sales. We used to get a percentage based on lifetime download dollars, not number of downloads.

Now about subs. We used to get a minimum of 25 until someone earned $500 which is roughly 2,000 download at 25. Pretty simple. Lifetime earnings.

Now we get a minimum of 10

Please read this carefully. Look at the third column, where the price the buyer pays is shown:



Most of our sales come from the 350 and 750 packs. Who is that and why? I haven't seen any good answers. But start at the 350 pack with the highest price for a buyer, where they pay SS 57 an image. The commission for those downloads at 15% would be = .855 cents. Less than 10 cents. Now look at the most expensive 750 pack. 33 an image, we'd get we'd get .0495 cents per download. Instead we get 10 cents.

If you care to look at the sales that don't have pink or yellow in the top 12 rows, we get paid the percentage as promised.

Yes, if we had an agency that sold images for a flat fee and we got a fixed percentage and could earn more for more sales, that would be interesting. In that case, 50% is a fair number.

You might want to look at Wirestock, because they are adding direct sales from their platform, at a fixed rate, paying us a fixed fee. None of the old foolishness of what size image, which might have mattered in real photo, but realistically, digital? Hopefully they will never introduce any subscription plan! Or if they do, it will still be a couple dollars and image, minimum.

Yes, I know about this, how it works. but at least you gave me the information I needed:
That means: If there would be a agency giving us 50% and sell images in subscriptioin (not only of course!) for 350, that means we would get our 25 Cent - well in real 28,5 Cent. and even if offering 750, we still would get 16,5 Cent, if paid 50%. (Still more than 10 cent now on SS)

I guess, I know what you mean about the direct sales via wirestock - the ones which they wanted to include the extra channels, isnt it? And there we get not the 15% cut, but only a percentage, but that could be big money depending on who is buying it. Or did I miss something?

« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2021, 06:05 »
0

If you care to look at the sales that don't have pink or yellow in the top 12 rows, we get paid the percentage as promised.


Is that actually a percentage of the revenue like Adobe offer with their new plan for Creative Cloud for Teams and Enterprises? If not what is it a percentage of?

Uncle Pete

  • Great Place by a Great Lake - My Home Port
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2021, 11:36 »
0

If you care to look at the sales that don't have pink or yellow in the top 12 rows, we get paid the percentage as promised.


Is that actually a percentage of the revenue like Adobe offer with their new plan for Creative Cloud for Teams and Enterprises? If not what is it a percentage of?

A percentage of the actual license price paid by the person/account that downloads that image. Nothing else implied. If they pay $10 and we're at 25%, we would get $2.50 for that download. If they pay $1 we would get a quarter.

My only point is we get a percentage, not a fixed payment. While the subs we get a number, not a percentage for almost everything in the 350 and 750 packs. The percentage would be below the minimum promised, if it was a percentage.

Example, 750, no contract, the buyer pays .33 per image. We would get .8250 per download at a real 25%. No I'm not thankful and grateful for getting a dime instead of 38 cents. Just doing the math.

(yes I know, we are paid on the total possible downloads, not real actual download numbers. While iStock takes a month or more to credit us for the real download number and has a 2 cents minimum! And a fixed rate of 15%. Just a matter of everyone screwing with us at different rates in different ways.)

« Reply #9 on: June 06, 2021, 20:12 »
+1
NONE of this matters until you can show that you can actually outperform existing agencies on SEO & marketing -- 90% of nothing is still nothing. this forum is filled with the shipwrecks of vaporware agencies


 

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