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Author Topic: Price, Royalty and Royalty Rate lowered for Single On Demand sales?  (Read 11908 times)

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« on: August 25, 2015, 12:56 »
+3
Looks like Shutterstock dropped the price of single On Demand sales from 2 for $29 to $9.99 for 1.  It appears like they also changed the category of Single On Demand sales from 30% to $2.85, effectively lowering the royalty from $4.35 to $2.85 and the royalty rate from 30% to 28.5%. 


Rose Tinted Glasses

« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2015, 13:13 »
+1
It's still too much to pay for a photograph. Also those royalty rates are insane. Who in their right mind would want to earn $2.85 per photo, It's far too much to pay as a royalty. If anything they should lower the royalty to something like 0.25c or less. If you give photographers an inch they will want a mile. Next to follow suite will be Istock, always the slow child in the race to the bottom.

« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2015, 23:15 »
0
Looks like Shutterstock dropped the price of single On Demand sales from 2 for $29 to $9.99 for 1.  It appears like they also changed the category of Single On Demand sales from 30% to $2.85, effectively lowering the royalty from $4.35 to $2.85 and the royalty rate from 30% to 28.5%.

I can see the price changes on the US site - $9.99 an image or $9.80/$9.16 versus $14.50 and you had to buy a two-pack. The 5 and 25 pack prices are unchnaged:

http://www.shutterstock.com/subscribe

I have been paid either $1.24 (sm/med) or $2.85 (any size) for the On Demand sales (Single and Other Downloads is something else entirely) since I started earning 38 cents for subscriptions. According to the earnings page that's still the case

http://submit.shutterstock.com/payouts

It's possible that hasn't updated.

The terminology they use on the contributor side of things is On Demand for the items sold as Image Packs. Where do you get the lowered royalty form $4.35 to $2.85 from?

SOD - Single and Other Downloads - earn from 38 cents to $120 (for me; no idea if others may have had higher) and you can't tell the royalty rate because you have no idea what the license sold for.

« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2015, 06:17 »
0
If you were at the 30% level you would have earned $4.35 for single On Demand sales.  2 images for $29 is $14.50 each and 30% of that is $4.35.  The old earnings schedule had "Single/Two Image On Demand & Any Products Not Listed" listed as 30% of sale price now it's been changed to say "Custom Image".
https://web.archive.org/web/20150728180651/https://submit.shutterstock.com/earnings_schedule.mhtml

I'm not 100% sure that Single On Demand sales aren't included in the Custom Image category but from the change of language I would guess they've changed categories which means a lower royalty rate. 
« Last Edit: August 26, 2015, 06:23 by tickstock »

« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2015, 12:58 »
+12
If you were at the 30% level you would have earned $4.35 for single On Demand sales.  2 images for $29 is $14.50 each and 30% of that is $4.35.  The old earnings schedule had "Single/Two Image On Demand & Any Products Not Listed" listed as 30% of sale price now it's been changed to say "Custom Image".
https://web.archive.org/web/20150728180651/https://submit.shutterstock.com/earnings_schedule.mhtml

I'm not 100% sure that Single On Demand sales aren't included in the Custom Image category but from the change of language I would guess they've changed categories which means a lower royalty rate.

Contributors were never paid on a percentage basis for On Demand sales. Those have always been a fixed amount based on your earnings tier and the two size brackets.

Shutterstock talks about their overall payout being around a certain percentage, but they don't pay on a percentage basis except for the Corporate deals - called Single and Other Downloads in the contributor interface and Custom Images on the earnings page.

« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2015, 13:00 »
0
If you were at the 30% level you would have earned $4.35 for single On Demand sales.  2 images for $29 is $14.50 each and 30% of that is $4.35.  The old earnings schedule had "Single/Two Image On Demand & Any Products Not Listed" listed as 30% of sale price now it's been changed to say "Custom Image".
https://web.archive.org/web/20150728180651/https://submit.shutterstock.com/earnings_schedule.mhtml

I'm not 100% sure that Single On Demand sales aren't included in the Custom Image category but from the change of language I would guess they've changed categories which means a lower royalty rate.


Contributors were never paid on a percentage basis for On Demand sales. Those have always been a fixed amount based on your earnings tier and the two size brackets.

Shutterstock talks about their overall payout being around a certain percentage, but they don't pay on a percentage basis except for the Corporate deals - called Single and Other Downloads in the contributor interface and Custom Images on the earnings page.

Did you look at the link (from last month), the far right column labeled "Single/Two Image On Demand & Any Products Not Listed" wouldn't that be for the 2 image On Demand sales?
Here's the link to the sales page with 2 image packs, aren't those Two Image On Demand sales?  https://web.archive.org/web/20150620202559/http://www.shutterstock.com/subscribe
« Last Edit: August 26, 2015, 13:03 by tickstock »

Shelma1

« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2015, 13:54 »
+5
As of today I'm still getting $2.85 per ODD, with SOD's varying depending on the license, as Jo Ann stated. I think the 30% figure (or 28% or whatever) is an average. On Demand cost ranged from $14.50 to just under $10 if you bought a larger pack. So far it looks like they lowered the price of entry for ODD but did not lower our royalties.

(As opposed to iStock, who pay you less when they charge buyers less).

« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2015, 14:23 »
+5
@tickstock. I gather you're not a SS contributor so it's perhaps puzzling to sort out given the different labeling for products across various parts of the SS interface, but I can only tell you what I see, which is the same as it has been for years in terms of royalties.

I don't see any column with the label you mentioned on the page you linked. On this page, I do see that label, but that has nothing to do with the Image packs which are paid out as On Demand

https://web.archive.org/web/20150728180651/https://submit.shutterstock.com/earnings_schedule.mhtml

« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2015, 16:57 »
0
@tickstock. I gather you're not a SS contributor so it's perhaps puzzling to sort out given the different labeling for products across various parts of the SS interface, but I can only tell you what I see, which is the same as it has been for years in terms of royalties.

I don't see any column with the label you mentioned on the page you linked. On this page, I do see that label, but that has nothing to do with the Image packs which are paid out as On Demand

https://web.archive.org/web/20150728180651/https://submit.shutterstock.com/earnings_schedule.mhtml
A couple things.  First what is meant by Two Image On Demand if not the 2 image on demand packs?  Second. I think SOD doesn't stand for single on demand it stands for single/two image on demand as stated in the earnings schedule.  Third if SS was paying the rates you think then the two image packs would only be paying 12.9%-19.6% royalty rates while the 5 image packs were paying 18.8-28.5% royalty rates.  It doesn't seem right that they paid the same royalty for $10 sale as a $14.50 sale but paying between 20-30% would seem fair.

If you're right and two image on demand sales weren't counted as two image on demand sales then you got a nearly 50% royalty rate increase on those sales. 
« Last Edit: August 26, 2015, 17:09 by tickstock »

« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2015, 18:14 »
+5
...  It doesn't seem right that they paid the same royalty for $10 sale as a $14.50 sale ...

SS isn't the only agency to do this, but they do it all the time. Payment to them by the buyer varies, for ELs and image packs. Payments to contributors are fixed for both. The deal is better or worse for the contributor depending on how the buyer pays. Even with subscriptions, SS gets more or less depending on how much of the buyer's allowance they actually download.

You may or may not like the deal, but as with other agencies, you choose to contribute to them or not. It's a package of terms and rates and not a percentage based system.

And even when there is a system ostensibly percentage based - as with iStock or Fotolia credit sales - there have been numerous games played with currency conversions that can change the contributor's percentage wildly.

You can choose to believe what you want, but I'm just telling you what we get paid for various sales. SOD is Single and Other Downloads, not Single on Demand as you stated.

« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2015, 18:24 »
0
You still haven't answered the most obvious question what is a two image on demand sale if not a two image on demand sale?   They list those for sale and on the earnings schedule but you say they aren't the same thing?  I think you're  mistaken on that and they show up under the sod column.  I don't believe shutterstock was paying less than 13 % for those sales.  They changed the category from two image on demand etc.. to custom images when they made the price about the same as the other ODs.  It seems pretty clear what happened,  SS was not paying 13% for those sales.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2015, 21:27 by tickstock »

« Reply #11 on: August 26, 2015, 21:42 »
+10
Jo Ann is correct.
On Demand (ODD in shutterstock lingo) pays a fixed amount depending on size and the contributor's tier.

Single and Other Downloads (SOD in shutterstock lingo) pays anywhere from the single subscription rate for FB downloads to $120 or more.

We're with shutterstock. We know what we are being paid and it hasn't changed. If buyers are paying more or less for certain image packs, that does not affect what we get. Just like we get the same amount for every subscription whether a buyer downloads one image or 750. The only payment that is affected by what the buyer pays is when it comes to a custom SOD, hence you can earn up to $120 and in the rare case even more. To date, my highest SOD is $80. This month's SOD's for me range from the FB subscription rate to $15; all my other downloads this month - both subscription and ODDs - are based a fixed amount based on my tier, which has been consistent since I hit the current level and has not changed this month despite changes in the price buyers pay for image packs.

If a buyer pays for a two image On Demand, we get paid a fixed rate for each one of those two images the buyer downloads based on our tier, so whether they buy a 5-pack or a 2-pack, our royalty for each ODD is still the same and it is not dependent on what the buyer paid.

What part of this don't you understand?

« Reply #12 on: August 26, 2015, 21:53 »
0
Jo Ann is correct.
On Demand (ODD in shutterstock lingo) pays a fixed amount depending on size and the contributor's tier.

Single and Other Downloads (SOD in shutterstock lingo) pays anywhere from the single subscription rate for FB downloads to $120 or more.

We're with shutterstock. We know what we are being paid and it hasn't changed. If buyers are paying more or less for certain image packs, that does not affect what we get. Just like we get the same amount for every subscription whether a buyer downloads one image or 750. The only payment that is affected by what the buyer pays is when it comes to a custom SOD, hence you can earn up to $120 and in the rare case even more. To date, my highest SOD is $80. This month's SOD's for me range from the FB subscription rate to $15; all my other downloads this month - both subscription and ODDs - are based a fixed amount based on my tier, which has been consistent since I hit the current level and has not changed this month despite changes in the price buyers pay for image packs.

If a buyer pays for a two image On Demand, we get paid a fixed rate for each one of those two images the buyer downloads based on our tier, so whether they buy a 5-pack or a 2-pack, our royalty for each ODD is still the same and it is not dependent on what the buyer paid.

What part of this don't you understand?
Look at the link from last month, then look over to the right side column, read it.  It says this "Single/Two Image On Demand & Any Products Not Listed" along with the other two columns for On Demand images.
https://web.archive.org/web/20150728180651/https://submit.shutterstock.com/earnings_schedule.mhtml

You can look back through the history of the earnings schedule, it's kind of interesting.  They used to list OD royalties under "Images: Multi-Image On Demand" and also had a column for Images:
"Single Image On Demand and Any Products Not Listed Above" which evolved into what it is now.  They dropped the wording for multi image packs but kept the single and two image packs in a separate category, which disproves Jo Ann's earlier statement that On Demand images never paid a percentage.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2015, 22:00 by tickstock »

« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2015, 22:03 »
+6
The multi-image packs are the ODDs where our royalties are not based on a percentage, but on a fixed rate. The Single/two image on demand you're referring to are the custom licenses where we get a percentage of the license which varies by whatever deal SS makes and the contributor earns anywhere from a few dollars to over $100. So the ODD rates that Jo Ann quoted you, and the 2-pack, 5-pack and 25-pack deals do not apply to the Single/two image on demand licenses. Again, Jo Ann is correct. It's really quite straight-forward.

« Last Edit: August 26, 2015, 22:06 by wordplanet »

« Reply #14 on: August 26, 2015, 22:07 »
0
I believe the multi-image packs are the ODDs where our royalties are not based on a percentage, but on a fixed rate. The Single/two image demand you're referring to are the custom licenses where we get a percentage of the license which varies by whatever deal SS makes and the contributor earns anywhere from a few dollars to over $100. So the ODD rates that Jo Ann quoted you do not apply to the Single/two image on demand licenses.
I know you and Jo Anne believe that, the question is why?  What would you call a Two Image On Demand pack if not a Two Image On Demand pack?  It is listed in the earnings schedule just like that.    I find it hard to believe that Shutterstock is negotiating 2 image deals with companies, that seems a bit far fetched doesn't it?

I really don't believe Shutterstock would pay less than a 13% royalty rate for Two Image On Demand sales but you seem pretty sure of it, is there some evidence that they were paying that little?
« Last Edit: August 26, 2015, 22:13 by tickstock »

« Reply #15 on: August 26, 2015, 22:14 »
+7
They pay 20% to 30% depending on your tier, as the schedule you linked to attests, not 13% or less. I never said that. Here's the schedule you linked to earlier. https://web.archive.org/web/20150728180651/https://submit.shutterstock.com/earnings_schedule.mhtml

I can't explain it any more simply than Jo Ann and I already have. If you want to twist what I said, then I'm not going to waste any more time trying to explain it. 

Goodnight!
« Last Edit: August 26, 2015, 22:17 by wordplanet »

« Reply #16 on: August 26, 2015, 22:18 »
0
They pay 20% to 30% depending on your tier, not 13%.

I can't explain it any more simply than Jo Ann and I already did.

Goodnight!
Not according to you and Jo Ann.  Two Image On Demand packs cost $29 or $14.50 for each sale.  You said they pay $1.88 to $2.85 for those that makes the percentage for the Two Image On Demand sales 12.9% to 19.6%. 

I'm saying (and the earnings schedule says) you get paid 20-30% for those sales.

When they lowered the price of Two Image On Demand sales from $14.50 to $10 each they lumped them in with the other On Demand sales which is why they changed the category from Two Image On Demand and other sales to Custom Image.   Now Single and Two Image On Demand sales fit in with the others, they didn't a month ago when they were priced higher.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2015, 22:25 by tickstock »


« Reply #17 on: August 26, 2015, 22:28 »
+9
If you're not a current Shutterstock contributor, you can't see the data we can see daily for our royalties. We're trying to tell you what we receive and you are arguing about it.

As stated above by wordplanet, the good news and the bad news is that when there are multiple prices for an item, EL or Image Packs, based on the quantity the buyer purchases at one time, we get a fixed royalty, not a percentage.

This has been this way for years. It hasn't changed with the recent price changes.

Some of these price changes have been very favorable to SS - decreasing our share of the price paid. It appears that this one has swung the other way and we're getting the same amount of royalty for an item that decreased in price (increasing our share for that item).

We do not earn a percentage of the sales for anything but the Single and other downloads category (which is the corporate stuff that's eating Getty's lunch).

You may think things should be handled differently, but that's a separate discussion.

I suggest you find someone who is a Shutterstock contributor who's willing to let you look at their earnings so you can see for yourself.

« Reply #18 on: August 26, 2015, 22:32 »
0
I can see earnings on Shutterstock.  If I understand correctly you see the column listed as Single & Other Downloads and have concluded that Two Image On Demand sales don't go there, is that right?  I'm saying that your Two Image On Demand sales go in that column while your other On Demand sales go in the On Demand column.  It should say Single/Two Image On Demand And Other Downloads but that's a bit too long to fit but that is how it's written in the earnings schedule. 
Looking at your SODs won't tell you if something is a Two Image On Demand sale or a Facebook sale, you might be able to guess by the amount though.

I understand that you believe what you are saying my question is still why?  Have you seen an admin post that Two Image On Demand sales do not get filed under the Two Image On Demand category?  Have you seen something that says each and every sale filed under SODs is pre-negotiated or have you seen that pre-negotiated sales go under the SOD category?
« Last Edit: August 26, 2015, 22:59 by tickstock »

« Reply #19 on: August 27, 2015, 00:13 »
+6
I can see earnings on Shutterstock.  If I understand correctly you see the column listed as Single & Other Downloads and have concluded that Two Image On Demand sales don't go there, is that right?  I'm saying that your Two Image On Demand sales go in that column while your other On Demand sales go in the On Demand column.  It should say Single/Two Image On Demand And Other Downloads but that's a bit too long to fit but that is how it's written in the earnings schedule. 
Looking at your SODs won't tell you if something is a Two Image On Demand sale or a Facebook sale, you might be able to guess by the amount though.

I understand that you believe what you are saying my question is still why?  Have you seen an admin post that Two Image On Demand sales do not get filed under the Two Image On Demand category?  Have you seen something that says each and every sale filed under SODs is pre-negotiated or have you seen that pre-negotiated sales go under the SOD category?

My stats match with JoAnn and Worldplanet. 

Why does this matter to you so much? 

« Reply #20 on: August 27, 2015, 00:28 »
+12
I can see earnings on Shutterstock.  If I understand correctly you see the column listed as Single & Other Downloads and have concluded that Two Image On Demand sales don't go there, is that right?

One if "On Demand", the other is "Single & Other". It's quite simple once you understood it. Obviously you are not understanding it, most likely not even willing to understand it even when it is being explained to you by several people with far more experience in this matter than you have.

I am wondering and would like to ask you: Are you getting paid by an entity connected to Getty Images for your efforts to discredit competitors whenever you get the chance to?

« Reply #21 on: August 27, 2015, 01:20 »
+6
...I understand that you believe what you are saying my question is still why?


The Image Packs predated (by many years) the Single and Other Downloads category. We know where the image pack royalties went because at the time there was no where else (other than subs, ELs, Backup CDs) but On Demand. See this pricing page from February 2009

https://web.archive.org/web/20090208220926/http://shutterstock.com/subscribe.mhtml

They have played around with the sizes of the packs over time - there was an option of one image for $19 at some point, then the two for $29

Single and Other Downloads is a relatively recent addition.

« Reply #22 on: August 27, 2015, 02:02 »
0
In unrelated news: As of now (GMT: 07:00) the contributor site shows me an HTTP 500 error, the customer site seems to be fine...

« Reply #23 on: August 27, 2015, 09:00 »
0
I can see earnings on Shutterstock.  If I understand correctly you see the column listed as Single & Other Downloads and have concluded that Two Image On Demand sales don't go there, is that right?  I'm saying that your Two Image On Demand sales go in that column while your other On Demand sales go in the On Demand column.  It should say Single/Two Image On Demand And Other Downloads but that's a bit too long to fit but that is how it's written in the earnings schedule. 
Looking at your SODs won't tell you if something is a Two Image On Demand sale or a Facebook sale, you might be able to guess by the amount though.

I understand that you believe what you are saying my question is still why?  Have you seen an admin post that Two Image On Demand sales do not get filed under the Two Image On Demand category?  Have you seen something that says each and every sale filed under SODs is pre-negotiated or have you seen that pre-negotiated sales go under the SOD category?

My stats match with JoAnn and Worldplanet. 

Why does this matter to you so much?
I'm not sure what that means?  Your stats don't say where a sale in the SOD column is from.  How are you judging that your stats say Two Image On Demand sales are going into the On Demand column instead of the SOD column?

« Reply #24 on: August 27, 2015, 09:02 »
0
...I understand that you believe what you are saying my question is still why?


The Image Packs predated (by many years) the Single and Other Downloads category. We know where the image pack royalties went because at the time there was no where else (other than subs, ELs, Backup CDs) but On Demand. See this pricing page from February 2009

https://web.archive.org/web/20090208220926/http://shutterstock.com/subscribe.mhtml

They have played around with the sizes of the packs over time - there was an option of one image for $19 at some point, then the two for $29

Single and Other Downloads is a relatively recent addition.

Thanks for posting that, have a look at these two archived pages from 2012:
https://web.archive.org/web/20120615063135/http://www.shutterstock.com/subscribe.mhtml
https://web.archive.org/web/20120821145231/http://submit.shutterstock.com/earnings_schedule.mhtml

Multi image On Demand sales pay at a set rate while Single Image On Demand pay at the percentage rate. 


 

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