Author Topic: Shutterstock expands headquarters while contracting our earnings (Read 29955 times)

Rinderart · « **Reply #50 on:** February 15, 2016, 01:11 »

Quote from: Robin@Symbiostock on February 14, 2016, 22:21

The best unified solution that is slowly gaining traction (and would benefit everyone quicker if all the professional yet disgruntled contributors hopped on) is Symzio.

For the first time there is a real option here - so don't keep complaining unless you've done everything you can to free yourself from the yoke of agencies. You control most of your own pricing, control your entire collection, have two new independent platforms to sell your stuff, and most importantly, keep a minimum of 70% of all revenue up to 90%.

No one is going to hand you a solution - you need to work for it. No matter how many posts you put up, no matter how many angry retorts or insults you upvote, and no matter how many programs you opt out of, the only feasible way to create a noticeable impact is to compete.

I agree with Robin. Thats why I've always said Micro is 20% + or - of my Income , It never was supposed to be more than that from Day one. Im a commercial Photographer and have been 25 Years before micro.....A gun for Hire, I do food menus,Seagrams,maytag,jewelry,Actor headshots and Furniture Catalogs,Glamour retouching for others,I teach,co-author Books ,Lectures and workshops around the country. And I Live Very well On the copyrights I own for 460TV shows,37 Films and 48 Music Albums. All of which I produced and own. I also have Major Interior designer contacts selling My paintings to Hotels, Banks,Whatever.. it's a business Guys and Im ALWAYS looking for opportunities..

And if your not ready or up to this? well then ya better get going or.....Take what they give or get out.

Thats the difference, You wanna be a working pro? get . out of this and do the work Promoting your work to clients. Ya, There still there and world wide But, you have to go get them if you have the right stuff and that means being able to shoot and process More than one or 2 subjects.. And have the equipment necessary to do it for whatever comes along. [A week ago, I shot a Insurance company Indoors...80 People scattered 2 floors on stairs.] 6 ..600 watt strobes 3 assistants.] Thats what it is. 5 hours for one shot.
I could never have made the money I need to live on Doing this alone and was always blown away by folks that could. Wanna know what makes me crazy?,, there are millions of great artists, Painters,Photographers,Musicians Dancers,actors..etc that will never be seen... Why?,, Because they dont possess the need to succeed, The drive,The self promotion and all the other stuff it takes.

I've said this a 100 times Shooting the Job is the easiest part. Getting the Job and keeping the job Is a 1000 times more difficult. especially since digital Came along.

If any of you can't or don't want to Promote yourselves....even a little. stick with Micro and accept whatever. Or...Put your foot down and say no More and make it a business. and as much as I respect Robin, Thats really Not the way either UNLESS you got some CHUTZPAH and go for it. Your the one that has to make it happen.

My Old friend Yuri was a textbook Perfect example of what Im saying He could have been anything he wanted. WORK ETHIC= Promotion=Just enough Talent.

Is there some BS involved? Of course. Don't fool yourselves.

Here's the method. when you see a crack in a door, do you wonder whats on the other side and peep through the crack ? Or do you just Knock the * thing down and walk in?? It better be the latter guys. It's not like you found the cure for cancer, Your taking Pictures.....Like a Million Others. Selling Is the art part.

Do I send everything I do to Microstock??...Hell No.

Microstockphoto · « **Reply #51 on:** February 15, 2016, 03:31 »

you do sound a lot like yuri thumping your own chest, the difference is, he did take action and left. you just complain and then brag how the biggest crook agency has an upswing in sales

sharpshot · « **Reply #52 on:** February 15, 2016, 05:06 »

Quote from: Robin@Symbiostock on February 14, 2016, 22:21

The best unified solution that is slowly gaining traction (and would benefit everyone quicker if all the professional yet disgruntled contributors hopped on) is Symzio.

For the first time there is a real option here - so don't keep complaining unless you've done everything you can to free yourself from the yoke of agencies. You control most of your own pricing, control your entire collection, have two new independent platforms to sell your stuff, and most importantly, keep a minimum of 70% of all revenue up to 90%.

No one is going to hand you a solution - you need to work for it. No matter how many posts you put up, no matter how many angry retorts or insults you upvote, and no matter how many programs you opt out of, the only feasible way to create a noticeable impact is to compete..........

I don't want my own site to sell image licenses, tried it with symbiostock and it wasn't a good experience. I still don't understand why thousands of us would want to pay hosting fees for our own sites when that money could be used to market one site? Shared hosting was relatively cheap but then you never know who you are sharing it with and that was an issue.

If we never get one site majority owned by contributors, I might go in to selling prints. That gets around the VAT issue for selling digital media online that made me close my symbiostock site. I can do a site to sell prints by myself and wont need to use 3rd party software that I don't really understand or have any control over.

r2d2 · « **Reply #53 on:** February 15, 2016, 07:29 »

Quote from: Chichikov on February 14, 2016, 04:24

Quote from: r2d2 on February 14, 2016, 03:11

Maybe thats one reason. Another could be that the veterans still earn enough money.
But whats your solution?
Only cry a loud about the good old times?

"Only cry a loud about the good old times?"
I am not crying about the old good times… Not at all, never.
But I am not whimpering about the new [bad] times, like many here.

I am aware that the system is not the best today (if any "best" system could exist), but we live longer, we live better (and we lament more and more).

The problem is not a problem of changing prices on Shutterstock's ELs… This is a false problem, or only a very very little part of it.
The problem is too complex to be limited only to Shutterstock's ELs.
This is part of the result of how we have built our whole society. We are part of it, we are responsible of it. Constantly whining is just weakness and hypocrisy.
The problem is a general problem of society. A society based on exploitation of the most for the profit of the less.
The problem is a priority of values in life. (What is really important in life, what we really want in life?)

Money (and their possessors) rules the world, banks rule the world. All is done in the name of God Money…
If you really want to change things, change the system, the whole system…
There is could be a way: make the system to fail, theoretically it is very simple: make the banks fail and the whole system will collapse. Are you ready for this? How many people are ready for it?
If you are, do it. If you are not you can continue to whimper, you will change nothing at all (and fill more depressed).
But, in my opinion, this is another battle against windmills because you cannot fight and win against human nature (that is to be courageous in speech and coward in act).

there is some truth to it.
Anyway, I'm not depressed and it is not all hopeless...

Hey i feel good i like what i do!

Just look at the share price Oringer is quite under pressure. The agency business collapses
by itself.

And if I can speed it up by talking about "unity"i do it. Thats it.
No reason to throw the towel.

r2d2 · « **Reply #54 on:** February 15, 2016, 07:45 »

Quote from: Rinderart on February 14, 2016, 17:45

"No agency should get more than 50% commission and together we can enforce that."

if you knew how many times I said that, You would be amazed.

I would have expected nothing else from you!

The agency commission will decline.
Agencies are becoming less important in the future.
It will be easier in the future to sell images without an agency.
Today agencies grab the largest part of the cake.
In the future sellers and buyers not put up with that longer.
Agencies be replaced by search engines.
I am convinced of that.

sharpshot · « **Reply #55 on:** February 15, 2016, 07:52 »

Quote from: r2d2 on February 15, 2016, 07:45

Quote from: Rinderart on February 14, 2016, 17:45
"No agency should get more than 50% commission and together we can enforce that."

if you knew how many times I said that, You would be amazed.

I would have expected nothing else from you!

The agency commission will decline.
Agencies are becoming less important in the future.
It will be easier in the future to sell images without an agency.
Today agencies grab the largest part of the cake.
In the future sellers and buyers not put up with that longer.
Agencies be replaced by search engines.
I am convinced of that.

So you think Google will pay us and at a better rate than we get now? I hope you're right but not going to hold my breath on that one.

KnowYourOnions · « **Reply #56 on:** February 15, 2016, 07:53 »

Quote from: r2d2 on February 15, 2016, 07:45

Quote from: Rinderart on February 14, 2016, 17:45
"No agency should get more than 50% commission and together we can enforce that."

if you knew how many times I said that, You would be amazed.

I would have expected nothing else from you!

The agency commission will decline.
Agencies are becoming less important in the future.
It will be easier in the future to sell images without an agency.
Today agencies grab the largest part of the cake.
In the future sellers and buyers not put up with that longer.
Agencies be replaced by search engines.
I am convinced of that.

I also believe in this.
At some point Google will buy them ALL out.

r2d2 · « **Reply #57 on:** February 15, 2016, 08:05 »

Quote from: Robin@Symbiostock on February 14, 2016, 22:21

The best unified solution that is slowly gaining traction (and would benefit everyone quicker if all the professional yet disgruntled contributors hopped on) is Symzio.

For the first time there is a real option here - so don't keep complaining unless you've done everything you can to free yourself from the yoke of agencies. You control most of your own pricing, control your entire collection, have two new independent platforms to sell your stuff, and most importantly, keep a minimum of 70% of all revenue up to 90%.

No one is going to hand you a solution - you need to work for it. No matter how many posts you put up, no matter how many angry retorts or insults you upvote, and no matter how many programs you opt out of, the only feasible way to create a noticeable impact is to compete.

And if Symzio is successful you're going to sell it to the highest bidder and then Symzio will be closed.

cathyslife · « **Reply #58 on:** February 15, 2016, 09:25 »

Quote from: r2d2 on February 15, 2016, 08:05

And if Symzio is successful you're going to sell it to the highest bidder and then Symzio will be closed.

Yes, that seems to be the definition of "entrepreneurship" today...start a company, rake in other people to do the real work, then cash out for millions off of their backs.

Microstockphoto · « **Reply #59 on:** February 15, 2016, 12:27 »

symzio is hardly worth millons. ill put money on it that it doesnt have more than 100k images,

etudiante_rapide · « **Reply #60 on:** February 15, 2016, 13:58 »

Quote from: sharpshot on February 14, 2016, 04:42

SS obviously didn't do much to keep Yuri. Istock kicked out Sean. Most of the few hundred you are talking about didn't join us in deactivation day or most of the other protests we have tried in the past. When the sites had much smaller collections, we did win a few battles but we failed to stop all of the big sites cutting commissions. If it isn't obvious by now that we need to try something more than a few people opting out or stopping uploading, I don't know when it will be.

the reality of generic business is just that !!! it does not matter if you are yuri or sean . both ppl i admire for their achievement.
but put yourself in the market of generics... whether it is writing pop songs or playing churning rap music,etc.. it is not difficult to make those products. the buyers do not care if it is made in germany or made in ukraine or sold in chelsea or sold in the flea market.
they only know that it is available everywhere, and if it is paying $1000 a shot or 28 cts a shot,
you can be sure they will pay 28 cts.
it is not like a product that cannot be copied eg gucci, or chivas or ferrari ,etc.

if microstock is a business of unique photographs where only buyers of works by man ray or matthew brady etc or something that pirelli will insist on paying,etc..
that is different. proof is how many clones yuri and sean got as soon they everyone sees that they were selling like mcdonalds. this again is the problem when agencies show how many downloads a picture gets. it slant the buying in their favour , but also it attracts copyists.

and once there is someone or a hundred copycats of yuri and sean...
guess who become not so valuable???

who would buy a rolex or a fake rolex??? i would pay for the rolex.
who would say, no way, i only want this stock photo with yuri or sean name on it.

who really cares if yuri or sean name is not on it??? can you tell

microstock is like telemarketing...
that is the problem. that is the reality why ss or is when posed with a threat from yuri or sean to walk out the door...
they say, the exit is that way... don't hit your head on the way out!!!

fotografer · « **Reply #61 on:** February 15, 2016, 14:09 »

Quote from: etudiante_rapide on February 15, 2016, 13:58

.

and once there is someone or a hundred copycats of yuri

Hardly any of Yuri's work was original anyway. He just did it on a bigger scale.

Jo Ann Snover · « **Reply #62 on:** February 15, 2016, 16:35 »

Quote from: Robin@Symbiostock on February 14, 2016, 22:21

The best unified solution that is slowly gaining traction (and would benefit everyone quicker if all the professional yet disgruntled contributors hopped on) is Symzio.

Symzio is just replacing one boss (Oringer or Enache or...) with another - Robin. As it's Robin's baby, I can see why he views it as best, but that's not speaking from the contributor's point of view. As to "unified", I don't have a clue what that really amounts to. There's talk about contributor control - which they have over their own site - but over Symzio, that's Robin's. Symzio has "I can boot you out any time for any or no reason" wording that all the agencies have. There's no haven there, which is perhaps a reason why more people aren't hopping on.

etudiante_rapide · « **Reply #63 on:** February 15, 2016, 17:45 »

Quote from: Jo Ann Snover on February 15, 2016, 16:35

Symzio is just replacing one boss (Oringer or Enache or...) with another - Robin. As it's Robin's baby, I can see why he views it as best, but that's not speaking from the contributor's point of view. As to "unified", I don't have a clue what that really amounts to. There's talk about contributor control - which they have over their own site - but over Symzio, that's Robin's. Symzio has "I can boot you out any time for any or no reason" wording that all the agencies have. There's no haven there, which is perhaps a reason why more people aren't hopping on.

true.
what was the other site we used to have here??? the one that started off very well, until some ppl started giving it bad

that too started some kind of indie network , didn't it???

i am thinking of music..eg. prince, loreena mckeenan (if wrong spelling of her name,sorry).. etc
how these musicians quit being pawns to the big recording tyrants like sony,etc..
and went on their own. i think U2 as well. how they manage today.

of course, it's easier for these three musicians because they've already made millions before they were booted out. so did yuri and sean , i guess.
pauliewalnuts said something too, of him going solo. maybe he can tune in here of how well he is doing.

also, i read somewhere of how some ex-micro photographers have gone onto ebay to sell framed photos independently too. i don't remember where i read it, but they too have gone away from microstock, and at that time, sounded like they are doing well.
at least i don't see them coming back to micro.

Rinderart · « **Reply #64 on:** February 15, 2016, 20:48 »

Whats the use, You guys have it all figured out. i know nothing.

PixelBytes · « **Reply #65 on:** February 15, 2016, 23:00 »

Quote from: ShadySue on February 14, 2016, 19:40

Quote from: YadaYadaYada on February 14, 2016, 18:27
If you send pictures to the sites that rob you and whore out your pictures for cheap subs, your complaints are nothing but empty talk. Stand up or shut up!
Shutterstock, FT, IS, P5 pays us. The rest are stealing, but people still upload to them. How stupid and a contradiction does that look?
SS, iS and Ft sell cheap subs.
P5? I have no idea. I can't work out how their credit packages work for buying images. Don't bother telling me, I'm not a buyer and to buy there I'd apparently need to pay in dollars. Is there paid placement there? In one category, most of the top 50 are similars by the same person, then about 50 pics mostly similars by another person, then they seem more random.

Yes, it is impossible to take anyone seriously who gives IS, FT, & SS as examples of sites who aren't screwing us.

YadaYadaYada · « **Reply #66 on:** February 16, 2016, 11:26 »

Quote from: PixelBytes on February 15, 2016, 23:00

Quote from: ShadySue on February 14, 2016, 19:40
Quote from: YadaYadaYada on February 14, 2016, 18:27
If you send pictures to the sites that rob you and whore out your pictures for cheap subs, your complaints are nothing but empty talk. Stand up or shut up!
Shutterstock, FT, IS, P5 pays us. The rest are stealing, but people still upload to them. How stupid and a contradiction does that look?
SS, iS and Ft sell cheap subs.
P5? I have no idea. I can't work out how their credit packages work for buying images. Don't bother telling me, I'm not a buyer and to buy there I'd apparently need to pay in dollars. Is there paid placement there? In one category, most of the top 50 are similars by the same person, then about 50 pics mostly similars by another person, then they seem more random.

Yes, it is impossible to take anyone seriously who gives IS, FT, & SS as examples of sites who aren't screwing us.

You need to read what I actually wrote. I said pay us, the rest are just stealing from us. All of them are screwing us. But if somebody sends their photos to anyplace and then complains after about the deal and percentages, what does that say? You walked into a brick wall and now you blame the wall for being there?

You people here signed up and send your work to these places. Then spend all day after day, complaining about them.

Didn't you know what the pay was and the contract when you signed up? Don't you know what the pay is now and the contract? Why do people keep working for the low earners and crooks when there are 4 good agencies that pay back for our work?

Epsilonth · « **Reply #67 on:** February 16, 2016, 11:59 »

Quote from: sharpshot on February 13, 2016, 07:04

I'm bored of complaining, until we all get together and run our own site or buy a majority share in one of the sites, what can we do about it? Or we could all just use the few sites that pay 50% but that never happens. This is all our own fault, I'm sure we could be much better off but the vast majority of contributors still don't care.

This may be actually possible.

gbalex · « **Reply #68 on:** February 16, 2016, 13:07 »

Quote from: sharpshot on February 13, 2016, 07:04

I'm bored of complaining, until we all get together and run our own site or buy a majority share in one of the sites, what can we do about it? Or we could all just use the few sites that pay 50% but that never happens. This is all our own fault, I'm sure we could be much better off but the vast majority of contributors still don't care.

Maybe they will wake up when the royalties drop to less than a penny per download.

I have gotten alot of flak here for trying to wake up the masses.

gbalex · « **Reply #69 on:** February 16, 2016, 13:26 »

Quote from: r2d2 on February 15, 2016, 07:29

Quote from: Chichikov on February 14, 2016, 04:24
Quote from: r2d2 on February 14, 2016, 03:11

Maybe thats one reason. Another could be that the veterans still earn enough money.
But whats your solution?
Only cry a loud about the good old times?

"Only cry a loud about the good old times?"
I am not crying about the old good times… Not at all, never.
But I am not whimpering about the new [bad] times, like many here.

I am aware that the system is not the best today (if any "best" system could exist), but we live longer, we live better (and we lament more and more).

The problem is not a problem of changing prices on Shutterstock's ELs… This is a false problem, or only a very very little part of it.
The problem is too complex to be limited only to Shutterstock's ELs.
This is part of the result of how we have built our whole society. We are part of it, we are responsible of it. Constantly whining is just weakness and hypocrisy.
The problem is a general problem of society. A society based on exploitation of the most for the profit of the less.
The problem is a priority of values in life. (What is really important in life, what we really want in life?)

Money (and their possessors) rules the world, banks rule the world. All is done in the name of God Money…
If you really want to change things, change the system, the whole system…
There is could be a way: make the system to fail, theoretically it is very simple: make the banks fail and the whole system will collapse. Are you ready for this? How many people are ready for it?
If you are, do it. If you are not you can continue to whimper, you will change nothing at all (and fill more depressed).
But, in my opinion, this is another battle against windmills because you cannot fight and win against human nature (that is to be courageous in speech and coward in act).

there is some truth to it.
Anyway, I'm not depressed and it is not all hopeless...

Hey i feel good i like what i do!

Just look at the share price Oringer is quite under pressure. The agency business collapses
by itself.

And if I can speed it up by talking about "unity"i do it. Thats it.
No reason to throw the towel.

Oringer took in millions every year before he took the company public, however than was not enough for him. He paid himself around 30 million at the time of the IPO and then sold a huge chunk 09/25/2013 2,530,000 Disposition at $57.3 per share. 144,969,000

Jon will be fine no matter what happens to SSTK and has earned himself an appropriate reputation among those who supported his road to success.

YadaYadaYada · « **Reply #70 on:** February 16, 2016, 13:49 »

Quote from: gbalex on February 16, 2016, 13:07

Quote from: sharpshot on February 13, 2016, 07:04
I'm bored of complaining, until we all get together and run our own site or buy a majority share in one of the sites, what can we do about it? Or we could all just use the few sites that pay 50% but that never happens. This is all our own fault, I'm sure we could be much better off but the vast majority of contributors still don't care.

Maybe they will wake up when the royalties drop to less than a penny per download.

I have gotten alot of flak here for trying to wake up the masses.

But you have been right, maybe some day more people will understand what you warn.

cathyslife · « **Reply #71 on:** February 16, 2016, 14:47 »

Quote from: gbalex on February 16, 2016, 13:07

Maybe they will wake up when the royalties drop to less than a penny per download.

I have gotten alot of flak here for trying to wake up the masses.

I don't think they will wake up until images are being given away for free. After all, "a penny per download is better than nothing". Only when you can say "nothing is better than nothing", will it be stupid to leave a portfolio online.

Rinderart · « **Reply #72 on:** February 16, 2016, 16:26 »

Quote from: Mantis on February 13, 2016, 20:38

Quote from: Rinderart on February 13, 2016, 20:30
Quote from: Mantis on February 13, 2016, 11:44
The thing is, this "plan"started awhile back.

1. SS went public
2. Scott left SS
3. SS said they would keep being a part of this forum
4. SS stopped being a part of this forum
5. SS moved to the Empire State Building
6. SS cut commissions
7. SS got more posh real estate

The roadmap of what their intentions are is VERY VERY CLEAR.

DUH!!!

That was a dumb s h I t reply that added no * value to this discussion

I agreed with you Man. :DUH" means "It's Obvious"

vizualni · « **Reply #73 on:** February 22, 2016, 15:29 »

As my turnover at SS is growing for the 10th month now from the first time I contributed mystuff in April last year, I do not really care for their royalty reduction on extended licences. I am very satisfied with Shutterstock and I am sure I will also for the future.

Microstockphoto · « **Reply #74 on:** February 22, 2016, 15:41 »

so you started 11 months ago, you have about 100 images online,still on 25 ct and you doubled your earnings from 2 dollar 50 to 5 dollar per month. now consider people who do this for a living who see their earnings decline each month up to point they need to find a second job.

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Author Topic: Shutterstock expands headquarters while contracting our earnings (Read 29955 times)

Rinderart

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sharpshot

r2d2

r2d2

sharpshot

KnowYourOnions

r2d2

cathyslife

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etudiante_rapide

fotografer

Jo Ann Snover

etudiante_rapide

Rinderart

PixelBytes

YadaYadaYada

Epsilonth

gbalex

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YadaYadaYada

cathyslife

Rinderart

vizualni

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