MicrostockGroup

Agency Based Discussion => Shutterstock.com => Topic started by: stockman11 on June 23, 2023, 16:26

Title: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: stockman11 on June 23, 2023, 16:26
My SS earnings used to be 15x higher than now, and they just keep nosediving from month to month. Once a good earner, now abomination. Seems like it will join mid-tier agencies soon. Inexcusable.

During this same time, my Adobe Stock earnings has been growing, and Istock has been consistent.

I'm considering to start treating SS like the other mid-tier agencies and completely stop uploading there.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: biibii on June 23, 2023, 16:54
same

edit: photo , illustration, >20k online files
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: blvdone on June 23, 2023, 17:14
Are you mainly a video or photo contributor?
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: blvdone on June 23, 2023, 17:23
I only sell photos on Shutterstock and Adobe Stock.  I have 2x more photos on Shutterstock because they accept editorials.  But my revenue is 1/3 of Adobe Stock.  Shutterstock definitely isn’t for creators.  They are for their stockholders.  Squeeze squeeze squeeze!!
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: stocky on June 23, 2023, 18:38
+1
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: blvdone on June 23, 2023, 19:30
My SS earnings used to be 15x higher than now, and they just keep nosediving from month to month. Once a good earner, now abomination. Seems like it will join mid-tier agencies soon. Inexcusable.

During this same time, my Adobe Stock earnings has been growing, and Istock has been consistent.

I'm considering to start treating SS like the other mid-tier agencies and completely stop uploading there.

Are you mainly a video or photo contributor?
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: gnirtS on June 23, 2023, 21:18
Mine is down about 80% on 2017, same on RPD so its not just a case of uploading more and more.

The various cuts of going from minimum $0.38 for photos down to effectively $0.10 etc.

Video used to pay well and ive got about 1400 videos.  But you used to get $40 per clip, thats now down to $1 to $8.

The level system then further trashed earnings as you get paid a LOT less earlier in the year and even when you've levelled up you're miles off what you used to have.

Moving to a percentage based earning as well means whenever SS sell things more cheaply (always....) you now get a percentage of that new low figure so make even less from the sale.

It all adds up.

SS now pretty much sells ALL of its products massively cheaper than before *and* gives contributors a far lower percentage of that cheaper deal price.

Without going into earnings and incurring the wrath of SS, im significantly north of $1000 per month in reduced earnings since 2018 although the amount of downloads has actually increased.

AS is slowly, steadily improving.  Its got fewer images and videos (no editorial) and as of last year overtook SS in average income and continues to pull away.

Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Uncle Pete on June 24, 2023, 10:51

SS now pretty much sells ALL of its products massively cheaper than before *and* gives contributors a far lower percentage of that cheaper deal price.


That covers the reality of the situation. Lower percentage of a lower cost license.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Injustice for all on June 24, 2023, 12:27
Bad month here on SS too,it's not over yet but for now it could be the worst month since August 2020.

Too many 0.10 sales,I like work with SS,i don't have much to complain about,but these 0.10 cents must be reconsidered,it's too little and almost 0,at least 0.25 would be more fair and honest and in line with the times we live.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: gnirtS on June 24, 2023, 22:30
Entry level $0.25 was a very long time ago and is never coming back.  The price SS sells to customers is now so low they'd lose too much money with every sale.

There's only one way its heading and thats iStock sub 1c sales.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Micha91 on June 25, 2023, 10:15
I don't know what happened with sales in June on Shutterstock, but the number of sales is half of what it used to be compared to the average of the past several months.

I have a feeling that they made changes to the search results because my bestsellers have stopped selling. Generally, sales have been stable (fluctuating by a few percentages), but June saw a 50% drop overnight! Has anyone else experienced this?

The only thing I've noticed is better sales of new files, but that doesn't compensate for the decline. >:(
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: LouisPhotos on June 27, 2023, 10:00
This month i have -40% on revenue. Making lot of money by month. This month is very bas but still sell lot of photo :(
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Noedelhap on June 27, 2023, 15:27
I'm having a horrible month on SS as well, literally the worst in 10 years. Too many 10c sales (even at higher levels), and the small amount of video sales I do have are sub $5 so even that doesn't make up for it. I don't know what SS is doing, it seems like they are failing miserably.

In the meantime, Adobe is stronger than ever in terms of revenue (despite their recent "EUR becomes USD" cash grab and influx of AI crap) because the RPD is still somewhat decent.

 

Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: stocker2011 on June 27, 2023, 18:28
Mine is down about 80% on 2017, same on RPD so its not just a case of uploading more and more.

The various cuts of going from minimum $0.38 for photos down to effectively $0.10 etc.

Video used to pay well and ive got about 1400 videos.  But you used to get $40 per clip, thats now down to $1 to $8.

The level system then further trashed earnings as you get paid a LOT less earlier in the year and even when you've levelled up you're miles off what you used to have.

Moving to a percentage based earning as well means whenever SS sell things more cheaply (always....) you now get a percentage of that new low figure so make even less from the sale.

It all adds up.

SS now pretty much sells ALL of its products massively cheaper than before *and* gives contributors a far lower percentage of that cheaper deal price.

Without going into earnings and incurring the wrath of SS, im significantly north of $1000 per month in reduced earnings since 2018 although the amount of downloads has actually increased.

AS is slowly, steadily improving.  Its got fewer images and videos (no editorial) and as of last year overtook SS in average income and continues to pull away.

Your experience with SS is identical to mine.

I wonder if their annual revenue is suffering in the same way as ours.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: sgoodwin4813 on June 27, 2023, 20:09
I'm considering to start treating SS like the other mid-tier agencies and completely stop uploading there.

I did that in 2020 when they changed the commission structure.  Every time I think to start uploading again I just can't do it for 10 cents a pop, even for images that are processed, keyworded and ready to go.  AdobeStock is the only one that seems to be growing these days.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Coco Nut on June 27, 2023, 23:39
I don't know what happened with sales in June on Shutterstock, but the number of sales is half of what it used to be compared to the average of the past several months.

I have a feeling that they made changes to the search results because my bestsellers have stopped selling. Generally, sales have been stable (fluctuating by a few percentages), but June saw a 50% drop overnight! Has anyone else experienced this?

The only thing I've noticed is better sales of new files, but that doesn't compensate for the decline. >:(

Same with me. June is unbelievable -- sales numbers suddenly down by 50% from previous months, huge income drop. Lots and lots of "single" sales between 10 and 20 cents. Not sure what's up with all the tiny singles.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Pacesetter on June 28, 2023, 07:17
I'm having my second best month of the year on Shutterstock with a mix of low and higher commissions on videos and download numbers overall are pretty good. So take heart that your poor month is probably temporary because I've had some very slow periods during this year when others are reporting all is peachy. Appears that internal 'adjustments' will impact different ports either negatively or positively.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: biibii on June 28, 2023, 07:24
I'm having my second best month of the year on Shutterstock with a mix of low and higher commissions on videos and download numbers overall are pretty good. So take heart that your poor month is probably temporary because I've had some very slow periods during this year when others are reporting all is peachy. Appears that internal 'adjustments' will impact different ports either negatively or positively.
:o
The comissions are NOT cut "temporary" from 0.38 to 0.10.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Pacesetter on June 28, 2023, 07:43
I'm having my second best month of the year on Shutterstock with a mix of low and higher commissions on videos and download numbers overall are pretty good. So take heart that your poor month is probably temporary because I've had some very slow periods during this year when others are reporting all is peachy. Appears that internal 'adjustments' will impact different ports either negatively or positively.
:o
The comissions are NOT cut "temporary" from 0.38 to 0.10.

True but don't rely on subs to build earnings, get more videos uploaded.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Noedelhap on June 28, 2023, 11:54
I'm having my second best month of the year on Shutterstock with a mix of low and higher commissions on videos and download numbers overall are pretty good. So take heart that your poor month is probably temporary because I've had some very slow periods during this year when others are reporting all is peachy. Appears that internal 'adjustments' will impact different ports either negatively or positively.
:o
The comissions are NOT cut "temporary" from 0.38 to 0.10.

True but don't rely on subs to build earnings, get more videos uploaded.

Videos don't sell for $23 a piece anymore either, you're lucky if you get an RPD from $5 to $12 or so.

My highest video sale this month was $5.27, the lowest was $0.25. It's a joke.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Camillo on June 28, 2023, 14:03
I am in the same boat and think I should stop uploading anything to shutterstock. All I get are 10 cts sales and that takes me no where.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: blvdone on June 28, 2023, 19:42
I'm having my second best month of the year on Shutterstock with a mix of low and higher commissions on videos and download numbers overall are pretty good. So take heart that your poor month is probably temporary because I've had some very slow periods during this year when others are reporting all is peachy. Appears that internal 'adjustments' will impact different ports either negatively or positively.
:o
The comissions are NOT cut "temporary" from 0.38 to 0.10.

True but don't rely on subs to build earnings, get more videos uploaded.

Videos don't sell for $23 a piece anymore either, you're lucky if you get an RPD from $5 to $12 or so.

My highest video sale this month was $5.27, the lowest was $0.25. It's a joke.

How bad is the video sales on Shutterstock now compared to pre-video sub days?  I stopped selling video on Shutterstock in early 2021 because my sales came down to about 1/3 of pre-vide sub level.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: trek on June 28, 2023, 20:24
My video sales are 70% below 2017...
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: gnirtS on June 29, 2023, 05:20

True but don't rely on subs to build earnings, get more videos uploaded.

Which have been cut from an average RPD of $38.00 to an average of about $7.00 with some going for as low as $0.60.

Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Brasilnut on June 29, 2023, 07:05
I interviewed Doug Jensen, veteran stock footage contributor, with a portfolio of 9,187.

Question: In terms of sales volumes and revenue, have you experienced a decrease in the past two years since our last interview?

Answer: "If you define “sales volume” as being the total number of clips that are sold, then that number has remained fairly consistent since we last spoke.  Unfortunately, my revenue, which is ultimately the metric that matters most, has dropped by more than 50% during that same time period.  I attribute this to two things:   First, Shutterstock made a lot of changes to their commission structure that have hurt contributors.  And second, Shutterstock is really pushing customers towards a subscription-based sales model which results in overall lower pricing per clip —  thus lower revenue for the contributors who created those clips.

Here’s how I see it:  If a customer pays an agency $50, does it really matter to the agency whether that $50 covers a single download or a hundred downloads?  $50 is $50 of income to the agency no matter how you slice it.  But the agency didn’t put any effort whatsoever into shooting, editing, uploading, or creating the metadata, so they don’t really care whether that $50 covers one download or a hundred downloads.  It’s still $50 of income (minus the commission) to their bottom line.   But to the average contributor, it is devastating because we only get a very small slice of that $50 if the customer is downloading multiple files.  The way the subscription model works, the more clips a customer downloads, the less money any individual contributor will get for their slice of the pie.  The bottom line is that when you have agencies that are offering customers unlimited 4K and HD downloads for as little as $50 per month, who do you think loses?  The contributor."

Link to full interview:

https://brutallyhonestmicrostock.com/2023/06/28/interview-with-doug-jensen-stock-footage-expert-fresh-insight-after-2-years/
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: gnirtS on June 29, 2023, 08:46
My video sales are 70% below 2017...

Dropping from average of $38 to an average of $7 with some sales a few cents will do that.

They utterly demolished the video commission system and then made it even worse with the level system.

70% is roughly what i see as well.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Asthebelltolls on June 29, 2023, 13:26
     The SS and their treatment of contributors is a prime example of how unions are born. It's no different than the "boardroom boys" of a company mulling over how they can squeeze their employees out of more money before the employees finally are fed up and unionize.
     From my perspective that would entail contributors creating their own microstock site and contributors signing an agreement that this site would be the only one that they will contribute to.
     It's a complicated scenario. How can the microstock group ensure that contributors are adhering to the agreement they signed and not continuing to feed the SS and other agencies with their images and clips using another erroneous name? And how can contributors initiate the site? Can enough money be raised to create and maintain the exclusive site? Will enough contributors sign up and build an agency that reaches the top 5?
     50% for the contributor's exclusive agency and 50% of the buyer's money for the photographer/Videographer would be incentive to get things moving.
     The SS boardroom boys and their trained monkeys. How can we, as photographers and videographers, change the current industry standards? Unionization. IMO.
     I am not someone who has ever depended on commissions. I'm concerned about the contributors who used their earnings to
feed their families. In the pre-SS days when commissions were a
lot higher, the money was a part of the essential need for those of
us who really depended on commissions to move forward. Those are the people I think most about and why I feel the SS and other agencies are immoral and corrupt.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: blvdone on June 29, 2023, 21:22
I had a BME on Pond5 last October.  Of course, it wasn't a BME for overall stock video revenue because Shutterstock video sales was good before they started video sub and Adobe Stock started video sub too last year, but it was nice to see I can still get BME on Pond5 with 60% exclusive royalty.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Noedelhap on June 30, 2023, 05:56
     The SS and their treatment of contributors is a prime example of how unions are born. It's no different than the "boardroom boys" of a company mulling over how they can squeeze their employees out of more money before the employees finally are fed up and unionize.
     From my perspective that would entail contributors creating their own microstock site and contributors signing an agreement that this site would be the only one that they will contribute to.
     It's a complicated scenario. How can the microstock group ensure that contributors are adhering to the agreement they signed and not continuing to feed the SS and other agencies with their images and clips using another erroneous name? And how can contributors initiate the site? Can enough money be raised to create and maintain the exclusive site? Will enough contributors sign up and build an agency that reaches the top 5?
     50% for the contributor's exclusive agency and 50% of the buyer's money for the photographer/Videographer would be incentive to get things moving.
     The SS boardroom boys and their trained monkeys. How can we, as photographers and videographers, change the current industry standards? Unionization. IMO.
     I am not someone who has ever depended on commissions. I'm concerned about the contributors who used their earnings to
feed their families. In the pre-SS days when commissions were a
lot higher, the money was a part of the essential need for those of
us who really depended on commissions to move forward. Those are the people I think most about and why I feel the SS and other agencies are immoral and corrupt.

Tale as old as time; people have been advocating for years for a union or a contibutor-run stock site, there have even been a couple of attempts in the past (Stocksy comes to mind). But in the end, heavy competition from the market leaders made it nearly impossible to gain enough traction and become a big player. And how do you get all contributors working together in the first place? Joining a union can be risky for those who need the income. People contribute to SS from all over the world, and in some low-wage countries, the revenue from SS is still enough to feed their families. So good luck convincing them to join your union.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: gnirtS on June 30, 2023, 07:06
Unions are by their very nature political and the second you get political you have disagreements and conflicts.

Its a non-starter.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Asthebelltolls on June 30, 2023, 08:33
     IMO constant talk about how much less you're making isn't going to draw the attention of the Boardroom Boys. They couldn't give a flipping *. But sharing ideas about resolving the problem of low commissions may draw the attention of agencies.
     Ok, a self-run contributor site isn't going to work, in your opinion. But an active, on-going conversation is far more effective than individual contributors complaining about the pennies their now making.
     The Boardroom Boys figured as long as they can make their contributors roll over and rub their tummies they can do whatever they * well please. So far it's working, IMO. 
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: blvdone on July 02, 2023, 07:36
I interviewed Doug Jensen, veteran stock footage contributor, with a portfolio of 9,187.

Question: In terms of sales volumes and revenue, have you experienced a decrease in the past two years since our last interview?

Answer: "If you define “sales volume” as being the total number of clips that are sold, then that number has remained fairly consistent since we last spoke.  Unfortunately, my revenue, which is ultimately the metric that matters most, has dropped by more than 50% during that same time period.  I attribute this to two things:   First, Shutterstock made a lot of changes to their commission structure that have hurt contributors.  And second, Shutterstock is really pushing customers towards a subscription-based sales model which results in overall lower pricing per clip —  thus lower revenue for the contributors who created those clips.

Here’s how I see it:  If a customer pays an agency $50, does it really matter to the agency whether that $50 covers a single download or a hundred downloads?  $50 is $50 of income to the agency no matter how you slice it.  But the agency didn’t put any effort whatsoever into shooting, editing, uploading, or creating the metadata, so they don’t really care whether that $50 covers one download or a hundred downloads.  It’s still $50 of income (minus the commission) to their bottom line.   But to the average contributor, it is devastating because we only get a very small slice of that $50 if the customer is downloading multiple files.  The way the subscription model works, the more clips a customer downloads, the less money any individual contributor will get for their slice of the pie.  The bottom line is that when you have agencies that are offering customers unlimited 4K and HD downloads for as little as $50 per month, who do you think loses?  The contributor."

Link to full interview:

https://brutallyhonestmicrostock.com/2023/06/28/interview-with-doug-jensen-stock-footage-expert-fresh-insight-after-2-years/


That dude used to attack me when I criticized Shutterstock on Shutterstock's contributor forum.  Now he's suffering the same fate as everybody else huh. 
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Zero Talent on July 02, 2023, 13:05

That dude used to attack me when I criticized Shutterstock on Shutterstock's contributor forum.  Now he's suffering the same fate as everybody else huh.

Yes. The dude is an arrogant know-it-all type, who was caught with his pants down on multiple occasions.
He was there to sell his "course" to those gulible enough to pay for something that is widely available for free.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: blvdone on July 02, 2023, 16:28

That dude used to attack me when I criticized Shutterstock on Shutterstock's contributor forum.  Now he's suffering the same fate as everybody else huh.

Yes. The dude is an arrogant know-it-all type, who was caught with his pants down on multiple occasions.
He was there to sell his "course" to those gulible enough to pay for something that is widely available for free.

LOL!!  Glad to hear you agree with me on this!!  Yes, maybe he was just trying hard to sell his stock video tutorial videos.  He was making ridiculous claim of making $300/hr or something on stock videos, but he didn't calculate his expenses for equipments, travel and his labor hours shooting footages because "he enjoys shooting".  Total BS.  Many end up making less than minimum wage these days in reality.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Taxco boy on July 03, 2023, 03:57
Yeah, screw Doug, the guy is incredibly arrogant and annoying.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: qunamax on July 03, 2023, 06:33
My SS earnings used to be 15x higher than now, and they just keep nosediving from month to month. Once a good earner, now abomination. Seems like it will join mid-tier agencies soon. Inexcusable.

During this same time, my Adobe Stock earnings has been growing, and Istock has been consistent.

I'm considering to start treating SS like the other mid-tier agencies and completely stop uploading there.

Identical experience for me too.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Wilm on July 03, 2023, 07:44

That dude used to attack me when I criticized Shutterstock on Shutterstock's contributor forum.  Now he's suffering the same fate as everybody else huh.

Yes. The dude is an arrogant know-it-all type, who was caught with his pants down on multiple occasions.
He was there to sell his "course" to those gulible enough to pay for something that is widely available for free.
He was making ridiculous claim of making $300/hr or something on stock videos, but he didn't calculate his expenses for equipments, travel and his labor hours shooting footages because "he enjoys shooting".  Total BS.  Many end up making less than minimum wage these days in reality.

I remember this "calculation" too.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Doug Jensen on July 03, 2023, 11:55
Hey guys, your favorite arrogant jerk has arrived at the party!!  How ya'll doing?  It is nice to feel your love. Kisses to everyone.

I thought you might like an update on my continued success with stock footage.

As of July 3, 2023
Lifetime earnings at Shutterstock:   $217,011
Lifetime earnings at Adobe:             $23,938
Lifetime earnings at Pond5:             $12,000   (approximate)
Lifetime earnings at Getty:              $13,977
Total:                                                               $266,926

Number of clips in Shutterstock portofilo:  9187  (with far fewer clips at other agencies)

Average earning per clip (so far):    $29.05
Average time to edit, grade, add metadata, and upload each clip:   5 minutes
5 minutes = 12 clips per hour
12 x $29.05 = $348 per hour

So, I've already earned $348 per hour for my work, and those clips continue to earn money everyday. Not as much as they used to due to Shutterstock's changes a couple of years ago (completely out of my control), but I still have a nice steady income stream from work I already did a long time ago.

I have never hidden the fact that I do not factor in my time to shoot stock because I only shoot for fun. There is nothing in my portfolio that I didn't want to shoot or regretted shooting.  It is all fun to me.  No different than other people going fishing or golfing or hiking, etc. which they don't expect to be paid for.  Only a moron can't understand that shooting for stock can be a legitimate leisure activity. Just because you hate it doesn't mean other people don't get pleasure from shooting.

I have also never hidden the fact that I do not factor in the cost of my camera equipment or computer hardware/software because I already own them because I actually work in the TV/video production industry.  My gear is already bought and paid for from other sources and would be just sitting on the shelf gathering dust when I am not working on a paid gig.

So my income for the actual the work and drudgery of stock (creating the metadata) is $348.  The numbers don't lie.  They are just facts.

Now, if YOU think shooting stock is work or a chore or you hate doing it for whatever reason, then YOU should factor that into your own calculations.  If YOU only use your camera gear for stock and never for any other purpose, then YOU should probably factor those costs into your own calculations.   I HAVE ALWAYS SAID THAT.

So, my friends, success is its own reward.  Please continue with all the put-downs, insults, and name-calling you want.  I'm laughing all the way to the bank while you're all just still whining about how the agencies are out to get you.  Get over it.  If you want to play the victim card, be my guest.

Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Asthebelltolls on July 03, 2023, 12:49
People contribute to SS from all over the world, and in some low-wage countries, the revenue from SS is still enough to feed their families. So good luck convincing them to join your union.
Wow! A statement I can image the Boardroom Boys making when justifying cutting commissions by 80%: "Sure, we've got contributors who used their commissions to feed their families. They bought rice, vegetables and maybe even took their families out for dinner once in a while when sales were good...but they can still buy them rice."
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Taxco boy on July 03, 2023, 16:06

Average time to edit, grade, add metadata, and upload each clip:   5 minutes


Right...
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Zero Talent on July 03, 2023, 16:34

Average time to edit, grade, add metadata, and upload each clip:   5 minutes


Right...

Right, right... and I'm earning ♾️/hour because everything I do is for fun.  ::)

Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Doug Jensen on July 03, 2023, 16:36

Average time to edit, grade, add metadata, and upload each clip:   5 minutes


Right...

If it takes you longer than that you must be doing something wrong.  How long does it take you ingest, edit, grade, and create the metadata?  I assure you, 5 minutes is a very conservative number for me.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Doug Jensen on July 03, 2023, 16:37

Average time to edit, grade, add metadata, and upload each clip:   5 minutes


Right...

Right, right... and I'm earning ♾️/hour because everything I do is for fun.  ::)

If that is true, then you are a very lucky person.  I hate doing metadata, so that will always be a chore for me and I absolutely must be paid well for doing it.  As shown above, I'm at $348 per hour right now, but I'd keep doing it for 1/3 that.  If it gets down to less than $100 per hour that is the day I will stop submitting.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Zero Talent on July 03, 2023, 16:45

Average time to edit, grade, add metadata, and upload each clip:   5 minutes


Right...

Right, right... and I'm earning ♾️/hour because everything I do is for fun.  ::)

If that is true, then you are a very lucky person.  I hate doing metadata, so that will always be a chore for me and I absolutely must be paid well for doing it.  As shown above, I'm at $348 per hour right now, but I'd keep doing it for 1/3 that.  If it gets down to less than $100 per hour that is the day I will stop submitting.

I am not lucky! ♾️>348. Therefore I am better, despite my lack of talent!
Imagine that! ;D
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Doug Jensen on July 03, 2023, 16:58

Average time to edit, grade, add metadata, and upload each clip:   5 minutes


Right...

Right, right... and I'm earning ♾️/hour because everything I do is for fun.  ::)

If that is true, then you are a very lucky person.  I hate doing metadata, so that will always be a chore for me and I absolutely must be paid well for doing it.  As shown above, I'm at $348 per hour right now, but I'd keep doing it for 1/3 that.  If it gets down to less than $100 per hour that is the day I will stop submitting.

I am not lucky! ♾️>348. Therefore I am better, despite my lack of talent!
Imagine that! ;D

Congratulations!  I envy your willingness to do it all for free.  But I have better things to do with my time if I'm not being paid.  You are indeed a lucky person.

If you really love doing metadata, and can prove you can actually do it competently, I've got 6500 4K clips that are edited, rendered, and just awaiting metadata before i can upload them.  I'd be more than happy to let you do all the metadata just for fun.  I won't charge you a thing for giving you so much fun, in fact, I would be very thankful for your help.  Please point me to some of your clips so I can judge your ability.  This is gonna be great for both of us!!   Makes me feel a little like Tom Sawyer.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: blvdone on July 03, 2023, 17:31
Hey guys, your favorite arrogant jerk has arrived at the party!!  How ya'll doing?  It is nice to feel your love. Kisses to everyone.

I thought you might like an update on my continued success with stock footage.

As of July 3, 2023
Lifetime earnings at Shutterstock:   $217,011
Lifetime earnings at Adobe:             $23,938
Lifetime earnings at Pond5:             $12,000   (approximate)
Lifetime earnings at Getty:              $13,977
Total:                                                               $266,926

Number of clips in Shutterstock portofilo:  9187  (with far fewer clips at other agencies)

Average earning per clip (so far):    $29.05
Average time to edit, grade, add metadata, and upload each clip:   5 minutes
5 minutes = 12 clips per hour
12 x $29.05 = $348 per hour

So, I've already earned $348 per hour for my work, and those clips continue to earn money everyday. Not as much as they used to due to Shutterstock's changes a couple of years ago (completely out of my control), but I still have a nice steady income stream from work I already did a long time ago.

I have never hidden the fact that I do not factor in my time to shoot stock because I only shoot for fun. There is nothing in my portfolio that I didn't want to shoot or regretted shooting.  It is all fun to me.  No different than other people going fishing or golfing or hiking, etc. which they don't expect to be paid for.  Only a moron can't understand that shooting for stock can be a legitimate leisure activity. Just because you hate it doesn't mean other people don't get pleasure from shooting.

I have also never hidden the fact that I do not factor in the cost of my camera equipment or computer hardware/software because I already own them because I actually work in the TV/video production industry.  My gear is already bought and paid for from other sources and would be just sitting on the shelf gathering dust when I am not working on a paid gig.

So my income for the actual the work and drudgery of stock (creating the metadata) is $348.  The numbers don't lie.  They are just facts.

Now, if YOU think shooting stock is work or a chore or you hate doing it for whatever reason, then YOU should factor that into your own calculations.  If YOU only use your camera gear for stock and never for any other purpose, then YOU should probably factor those costs into your own calculations.   I HAVE ALWAYS SAID THAT.

So, my friends, success is its own reward.  Please continue with all the put-downs, insults, and name-calling you want.  I'm laughing all the way to the bank while you're all just still whining about how the agencies are out to get you.  Get over it.  If you want to play the victim card, be my guest.

U R the GOAT!!   
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Doug Jensen on July 03, 2023, 17:34
U R the GOAT!!

Oh, I highly doubt that.  I am absolutely certain that there are many people who could put my earnings and hourly wage to shame.  I'm just a yeoman with a little side hustle. That's all.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: blvdone on July 03, 2023, 17:35
I think I have to buy his "How to make $$$ uploading videos to Shutterstock" tutorial video.  I'm nowhere near making $350/hr.  I've been doing this totally wrong way.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Doug Jensen on July 03, 2023, 17:37
I think I have to buy his "How to make $$$ uploading videos to Shutterstock" tutorial video.  I'm nowhere near making $350/hr.  I've been doing this totally wrong way.

That might be true about doing it the wrong way.  What is your process?  I'd be happy to take a look at your best clips and give you some free feedback on the subject matter, editing, grading, and of course, the all important metadata.  Post a link and I'll do my best to get you headed in the right direction.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: blvdone on July 03, 2023, 17:39
I think I have to buy his "How to make $$$ uploading videos to Shutterstock" tutorial video.  I'm nowhere near making $350/hr.  I've been doing this totally wrong way.

That might be true about doing it the wrong way.  What is your process?  I'd be happy to take a look at your best clips and give you some free feedback on the subject matter, editing, grading, and of course, the all important metadata.  Post a link.


It's OK.  I'm too embarrassed after seeing your $$$ figure.  I totally suck at this.  I should go back to delivering newspapers.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Doug Jensen on July 03, 2023, 19:16
I think I have to buy his "How to make $$$ uploading videos to Shutterstock" tutorial video.  I'm nowhere near making $350/hr.  I've been doing this totally wrong way.

That might be true about doing it the wrong way.  What is your process?  I'd be happy to take a look at your best clips and give you some free feedback on the subject matter, editing, grading, and of course, the all important metadata.  Post a link.


It's OK.  I'm too embarrassed after seeing your $$$ figure.  I totally suck at this.  I should go back to delivering newspapers.

Good idea.  My first real job was delivering newspapers when I was in Jr. High and that allowed me to buy my first camera.  So, yes, that is an excellent place to start.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Doug Jensen on July 03, 2023, 19:18
Good idea.  My first real job was delivering newspapers when I was in Jr. High and that allowed me to buy my first camera.  So, yes, that is an excellent place to start.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Zero Talent on July 03, 2023, 20:47

Average time to edit, grade, add metadata, and upload each clip:   5 minutes


Right...

Right, right... and I'm earning ♾️/hour because everything I do is for fun.  ::)

If that is true, then you are a very lucky person.  I hate doing metadata, so that will always be a chore for me and I absolutely must be paid well for doing it.  As shown above, I'm at $348 per hour right now, but I'd keep doing it for 1/3 that.  If it gets down to less than $100 per hour that is the day I will stop submitting.

I am not lucky! ♾️>348. Therefore I am better, despite my lack of talent!
Imagine that! ;D

Congratulations!  I envy your willingness to do it all for free.

Thanks!
But rest assured that I'm not doing all this for free!
I'm doing it for a lot of money and I'm enjoying it!

Based on your calculation, my my rate is ♾️/hour and that's so much fun!  :D

Please point me to some of your clips so I can judge your ability.  This is gonna be great for both of us!!   Makes me feel a little like Tom Sawyer.

There is zero chance that I would ever share my trade secret with you!
Not even if you pay me for a crash course!
It is not up to you to judge my ability, but rather the other way around, since I am making ♾️/hour, and you are only making $348/hour.
;D
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Doug Jensen on July 03, 2023, 20:54
PS. There is no chance that I would ever share my trade secret with you!
Not even if you pay me for a crash course!  ;D

That's a shame. I already had my wallet out.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Zero Talent on July 03, 2023, 20:56
PS. There is no chance that I would ever share my trade secret with you!
Not even if you pay me for a crash course!  ;D

That's a shame. I already had my wallet out.

Well... you will have to learn it the hard way! Go back to grinding!
In life, you don't get success served on a silver platter! ;D
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Wilm on July 04, 2023, 05:58
We have discussed this at length in the past.

From my point of view, this is misleading. There are millions of creatives who love their job and have fun doing it. And there are millions of creatives who are still barely able to make a living because they miscalculate. They sit too long on projects that pay poorly because they want to deliver an excellent result, even if the pay is only enough for an average design.

I too love my job as a designer, enjoy it every day and couldn't imagine doing anything else. Nevertheless, I have to calculate correctly in order not to cheat myself and to be able to feed my family. And even if I enjoy driving a car, for example, I have to calculate the travel time to the customer. Likewise my travel times to Geneva, Amsterdam or Barcelona, even if I enjoy traveling.

I even have fun editing my images for stock. Still, I calculate that time in.

At least, that's how I see it with calculating the hourly rate. And stand by my statement that a calculation of 5 minutes per file is unrealistic from my point of view.

Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Zero Talent on July 04, 2023, 08:28

I too love my job as a designer, enjoy it every day and couldn't imagine doing anything else.
Nice!
So you are also making ♾️/hour, according to the "Jensen logic"!
Lucky you!
 ;D

Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: gnirtS on July 04, 2023, 09:30
So you are also making ♾️/hour, according to the "Jensen logic"!
Lucky you!
 ;D


I enjoy taking photos and video.  So obviously today i was pleased to learn that instead of seeing monthly income drop off a cliff in the last 3 years im actually earning infinite amounts of money per hour and am richer than my wildest dreams.

Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Doug Jensen on July 04, 2023, 09:50
We have discussed this at length in the past.

From my point of view, this is misleading. There are millions of creatives who love their job and have fun doing it. And there are millions of creatives who are still barely able to make a living because they miscalculate. They sit too long on projects that pay poorly because they want to deliver an excellent result, even if the pay is only enough for an average design.

Wilm, I am not responsible for, nor do I really care if other creatives are happy or not with their earnings.  I wish them success, as I do all people in all professions, but their success or lack of success has nothing to with me.  In fact, in my experience, creatives are some of the worst business people I've ever met.  And you cannot be successful in stock if you don't know how to manage your time, your expenses, choose to create content that is in demand, be able to generate effective metadata, and have an efficient workflow.  I would argue that "creativity" is one of the least important aspects of being successful at stock. I for one do not consider myself creative at all, yet I'm making what I feel is a decent income.

I hope everyone would agree it is very important for any stock contributor to figure out how much they are earning for the amount of time and effort they put into their portfolio.  That is just business 101.  If someone cannot quantity their earnings by hour, day, or some other metric that makes sense to them, how can they ever get a handle on the value of what they are earning?   On the face of it, a $1000 of revenue sounds great, but if I had to spend 100 hours to earn that $1000, then it is not so good.  Revenue always has to be viewed against what it took to earn that revenue.  I hope we can all agree on that.

However, with that said, we don't have to agree on HOW we calculate the value of the time and effort that goes into our stock footage businesses.  I have explained in great detail how I calculate my earnings. Other people may not agree with my formula.  Fine.  The point is that I have a formula that makes sense to me and I have explained it in detail.  I don't expect everyone to agree that they should use the same formula.  Other people can calculate their earnings using whatever formula that make sense to them.  Only a fool would keep blundering along without stopping to take a look at the big picture of earnings vs. time and expenses.

What I don't understand is why people get so angry when I explain my formula.  It brings out such hatred.  Why is that?  Why is it so offensive to people that I am willing to open the books to show my earnings and then explain how I calculate my hourly income?  If you don't agree with my methods, fine, but what difference should it make to you?    Why the anger?

I challenge anyone else to open their books and explain how they calculate their own earnings.  People always want to take a crap on mine, but nobody else ever steps up to the plate and says "Here's how I do it, and here's why my method makes more sense to me."  I could respect that even if my methods differ.  Nobody does that. They just want to throw stones at me because I had the gall to go on record with my own earnings.

What do we get instead, silly childish postings about infinite earnings per hour, and dumb stuff like you'd expect to hear from a 2nd grader. Are there no adults in the room who are willing to have an adult conversation without calling people names and throwing insults because they don't agree with someone else's formula?  Does throwing out asinine statements about infinite earnings per hour lead to a meaningful conversation about this topic?

It's been a couple of years since SS shut down there forum, and so I come here now to read hundreds of postings by the same cast of characters bitching about the same stuff and tilting at the same windmills.  Where does it all get them?
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Doug Jensen on July 04, 2023, 10:13
At least, that's how I see it with calculating the hourly rate. And stand by my statement that a calculation of 5 minutes per file is unrealistic from my point of view.

Yes, it might be unrealistic from your point of view because you do things differently than me. Obviously, you are welcome to do things anyway you want to, but that doesn't mean I can't do what I say I can do.  I can't free-climb Half Dome in three hours or run a 100 meter dash under 10 seconds, but that doesn't mean other people can't do it.

Yes, I really can process 12 clip per hour (edit, grade, export, generate metadata, and upload) without batting an eye.   Actually it is closer to three minutes, but I like to be conservative and say 5 minutes.   How can I do it? Because I have a workflow and system in place that allows me to do it.  And through my online master class and in-person workshops, I have taught hundreds of other people to use the exact same  methods to speed up their workflow too.     Here's a secret:   The less time I spend creating my content, the more money I earn per hour of my time.  It is that simple.  If someone can cut their time to create content in half, they have instantly doubled their hourly income.  It is as simple as that.

Some contributors are like a cobbler working in their little home workshop to create a perfect pair of shoes by hand.  While other people, like myself have more of an assembly line approach where speed and efficiency are king.  You might be building a house with a pocket full of nails and a hammer, while I'm using a high-powered nail gun to get the same job done faster.  You might be an author banging away on a manual typewriter, while I'm cruising along with a word processor to get the same work done in a fraction of the time. 

Why is it that people can't understand that workflow, and the tools we use, actually matter to the bottom line? And that someone else may have a better way of getting the job done.

May I ask what software you use to edit, grade, export, and upload?

May I ask how you generate and manage your vast library metadata, and how you use are able to use older metadate to automate the creation of metadata for new clips?

May I ask how you shoot your footage and what tools you use onboard your camera, and during ingest, that will make you more efficient in post?





Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Zero Talent on July 04, 2023, 10:15
What do we get instead, silly childish postings about infinite earnings per hour,

I know it hurts, but this not childish.
It's simple math and a logical consequence of your, no matter how you try to spin it, silly calculation.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Doug Jensen on July 04, 2023, 10:18
What do we get instead, silly childish postings about infinite earnings per hour,

I know it hurts, but this not childish.
It's simple math and a logical consequence of your, no matter how you try to spin it, silly calculation.


Of course it is childish to say you have infinite earnings.  Do you have all the money in the world?  I think not. Case settled.

What is wrong with my calculation and why is it so offensive to you?
 
What is your calculation? Please share.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Doug Jensen on July 04, 2023, 10:20
What do we get instead, silly childish postings about infinite earnings per hour,

I know it hurts, but this not childish.
It's simple math and a logical consequence of your, no matter how you try to spin it, silly calculation.

Of course it is childish to say you have infinite earnings.  Do you have all the money in the world?  I think not. Case settled.

What is wrong with my calculation and why is it so offensive to you?
 
What is your calculation? Please share.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Zero Talent on July 04, 2023, 10:22
What do we get instead, silly childish postings about infinite earnings per hour,

I know it hurts, but this not childish.
It's simple math and a logical consequence of your, no matter how you try to spin it, silly calculation.

What is wrong with my calculation and why is it so offensive to you?
 
What is your calculation? Please share.

In case you don't realize, it's an elementary logic tool, called "reductio ad absurdum".
You assume a hypothesis to be right, and you prove it wrong, when it leads to an absurd conclusion.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Doug Jensen on July 04, 2023, 10:26
What do we get instead, silly childish postings about infinite earnings per hour,

I know it hurts, but this not childish.
It's simple math and a logical consequence of your, no matter how you try to spin it, silly calculation.

What is wrong with my calculation and why is it so offensive to you?
 
What is your calculation? Please share.

In case you don't realize, it's elementary logic called "reductio ad absurdum".
You asume the premise to be right, and you prove it wrong, when it leads to an absurd conclusion.

You're just avoiding the question with childish statments like that.  "It's wrong becuase I say it is wrong".  Childish

I'll ask you again . . .

What is wrong with my calculation and why is it so offensive to you?
 
What is your calculation? Lay it on the table so we can be enlightened at to the correct way to do it that meets your standards.  I am listening. Here is you chance to actually post something of substance rather than throwing stones.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Zero Talent on July 04, 2023, 10:32
What do we get instead, silly childish postings about infinite earnings per hour,

I know it hurts, but this not childish.
It's simple math and a logical consequence of your, no matter how you try to spin it, silly calculation.

What is wrong with my calculation and why is it so offensive to you?
 
What is your calculation? Please share.

In case you don't realize, it's elementary logic called "reductio ad absurdum".
You asume the premise to be right, and you prove it wrong, when it leads to an absurd conclusion.

You're just avoiding the question with childish statments like that.  "It's wrong becuase I say it is wrong".  Childish

I'll ask you again . . .

What is wrong with my calculation and why is it so offensive to you?
 
What is your calculation? Lay it on the table so we can be enlightened at to the correct way to do it that meets your standards.  I am listening. Here is you chance to actually post something of substance rather than throwing stones.
I am not avoiding anything.

Follow me:
Let's assume that your calculation leading to your claim of $348/hour is correct.
If that's true, then following the same "logic", my earnings are ♾️/hour, as shown above.

But this is absurd. Therefore the original assumption, your calculation, is wrong.
And silly.

Quod Erat Demonstrandum.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Doug Jensen on July 04, 2023, 10:36
What do we get instead, silly childish postings about infinite earnings per hour,

I know it hurts, but this not childish.
It's simple math and a logical consequence of your, no matter how you try to spin it, silly calculation.

What is wrong with my calculation and why is it so offensive to you?
 
What is your calculation? Please share.

In case you don't realize, it's elementary logic called "reductio ad absurdum".
You asume the premise to be right, and you prove it wrong, when it leads to an absurd conclusion.

You're just avoiding the question with childish statments like that.  "It's wrong becuase I say it is wrong".  Childish

I'll ask you again . . .

What is wrong with my calculation and why is it so offensive to you?
 
What is your calculation? Lay it on the table so we can be enlightened at to the correct way to do it that meets your standards.  I am listening. Here is you chance to actually post something of substance rather than throwing stones.
I am not avoid anything.

Follow me:
Let's assume that your calculation leading to your claim of $348/hour is correct.
If that's true, then my earnings are ♾️/hour, as shown above.

But this is absurd. Therefore the original assumption, your calculation, is wrong.
And silly.

Quod Erat Demonstrandum.

Wow, you are really a piece of work  I've given you multiple opportunities to explain yourself but you won't do it.  Childish.  I will not waste time discussing it with you any further.   If anyone else would care to enage in an adult conversation and compare methods I would be a happy to do so.  I have no time for trolls.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Zero Talent on July 04, 2023, 10:51

Wow, you are really a piece of work  I've given you multiple opportunities to explain yourself but you won't do it.  Childish.  I will not waste time discussing it with you any further.   If anyone else would care to enage in an adult conversation and compare methods I would be a happy to do so.  I have no time for trolls.

Sorry, man, but it looks like you may have skipped some high school classes, back in the day.
But that's OK, since you were working hard distributing newspapers to buy your first camera.
I respect that 100%.

Nevertheless, it's never too late to catch up with your math and logic and adjust your silly $348/hour calculation.

This knowledge is now widely available on the internet, for free, similarly to what you are selling in your look-at-me-and-get-rich-quick "course".
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Doug Jensen on July 04, 2023, 11:04
Nevertheless, it's never too late to catch up with your math and logic and adjust your silly $348/hour calculation.

Okay, against my better judgement, and despite what I said in my last post, I will give you one more chance to explain exactly what is about by calculation you don't like.  What should I do differently?  What is wrong with it?  Please tell me what you find so flawed with my calculation -- and I will do my best to plug in the appropriate values to your satisfaction.

In other words, if my calculation is wrong, tell me how to fix it. What is missing? Just tell me in simple words even a moron like me can understand.   
 
The floor is yours.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Doug Jensen on July 04, 2023, 11:06
Nevertheless, it's never too late to catch up with your math and logic and adjust your silly $348/hour calculation.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Zero Talent on July 04, 2023, 11:12
Nevertheless, it's never too late to catch up with your math and logic and adjust your silly $348/hour calculation.

Okay, against my better judgement, and despite what I said in my last post, I will give you one more chance to explain exactly what is about by calculation you don't like.  What should I do differently?  What is wrong with it?  Please tell me what you find so flawed with my calculation -- and I will do my best to plug in the appropriate values to your satisfaction.

In other words, if my calculation is wrong, tell me how to fix it. What is missing? Just tell me in simple words even a moron like me can understand.   
 
The floor is yours.

The beauty of the reductio ad absurdum method is that you don't have to show WHY a hypothesis is wrong. You just prove it is.

Besides, I am not here to help you to understand how to better run your business.
I only did you a favor by showing that you made an error. You're welcome!

So accept that your calculation is wrong (and silly) and try to figure out WHY by yourself.

Good luck!

 ;)
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Doug Jensen on July 04, 2023, 11:20
Nevertheless, it's never too late to catch up with your math and logic and adjust your silly $348/hour calculation.

Okay, against my better judgement, and despite what I said in my last post, I will give you one more chance to explain exactly what is about by calculation you don't like.  What should I do differently?  What is wrong with it?  Please tell me what you find so flawed with my calculation -- and I will do my best to plug in the appropriate values to your satisfaction.

In other words, if my calculation is wrong, tell me how to fix it. What is missing? Just tell me in simple words even a moron like me can understand.   
 
The floor is yours.

The beauty of the reductio ad absurdum method is that you don't have to show WHY a hypothesis is wrong. You just prove it is.

Besides, I am not here to help you to understand how to better run your business.
I only did you a favor by showing that you made an error. You're welcome!

So accept that your calculation is wrong (and silly) and try to figure out WHY by yourself.

Good luck!

 ;)

Yup, that's exactly what I expected you to say.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: RalfLiebhold on July 04, 2023, 11:22
Nevertheless, it's never too late to catch up with your math and logic and adjust your silly $348/hour calculation.

Okay, against my better judgement, and despite what I said in my last post, I will give you one more chance to explain exactly what is about by calculation you don't like.  What should I do differently?  What is wrong with it?  Please tell me what you find so flawed with my calculation -- and I will do my best to plug in the appropriate values to your satisfaction.

In other words, if my calculation is wrong, tell me how to fix it. What is missing? Just tell me in simple words even a moron like me can understand.   
 
The floor is yours.

The beauty of the reductio ad absurdum method is that you don't have to show WHY a hypothesis is wrong. You just prove it is.

Besides, I am not here to help you to understand how to better run your business.
I only did you a favor by showing that you made an error. You're welcome!

So accept that your calculation is wrong (and silly) and try to figure out WHY by yourself.

Good luck!

 ;)

Would you be so kind as to explain to the uneducated audience reading along here why this discussion is being conducted so aggressively?

Apart from the fact that I don't necessarily see the hourly wage as an adequate parameter for economic success in the stock photo business, I can follow most of Doug's arguments very well and would find the knowledge of his workflow interesting.

At least I don't see any reason for arrogant behavior towards Doug from my side - and before you get any stupid ideas, I didn't skip any high school classes and my latin is still quite fluent  ;)
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Zero Talent on July 04, 2023, 11:48
No worries, Ralf.

Discussing workflows is perfectly fine.

But there is difference between discussing workflows and chestbeating yourself with an absurd (for microstock) $348/hour earnings, only because you have fun doing your work. ::)

And all this, to impress some who will be will  be willing to pay for his get-rich-quick course.
But since this hasn't happened here, yet: "In dubio pro reo"  ;)
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Zero Talent on July 04, 2023, 13:22
.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: RalfLiebhold on July 04, 2023, 13:47
No worries, Ralf.

Discussing workflows is perfectly fine.

But there is difference between discussing workflows and chestbeating yourself with an absurd (for microstock) $348/hour earnings, only because you have fun doing your work. ::)

And all this, to impress some who will be will  be willing to pay for his get-rich-quick course.
But since this hasn't happened here, yet: "In dubio pro reo"  ;)

Thank you Zero for your reply.

However, I still do not understand the aggressiveness in the discussion.

As I understand it, the agitation is the $348/hour. Of course, that in itself is very lurid and attention grabbing. But Doug was also fair enough to explain how the total came about.

I can relate to all of this in that I am in the same situation and my bill looks similar.

Professionally, I do something completely different full time.
Stock photography is purely a hobby for me. High quality cameras and other equipment were already in place. The photography itself I do not see as work, but as relaxation from my actual job. During this time I could have also watched TV, read a book or done something else.
So for me, this is also not working time, but relaxing leisure. It's the same with image post-processing. 

Without it being my intention at the beginning, I now regularly earn money with it.

From this personal point of view, which is also ultimately Doug's, I find the absolute numbers presented - leaving aside the hourly wage - very impressive. 
At least for a hobby. And that's how I understood Doug's explanations here.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Just_to_inform_people2 on July 04, 2023, 14:01
.
You are losing the discussion here Zero by a mile. C'mon get up and fight :)
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Zero Talent on July 04, 2023, 14:29
.
You are losing the discussion here Zero by a mile. C'mon get up and fight :)
No worries, the dot was just me noticing that I misspelled Ralf's name, and clicking the wrong button to fix it.  :)
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Zero Talent on July 04, 2023, 14:35
No worries, Ralf.

Discussing workflows is perfectly fine.

But there is difference between discussing workflows and chestbeating yourself with an absurd (for microstock) $348/hour earnings, only because you have fun doing your work. ::)

And all this, to impress some who will be will  be willing to pay for his get-rich-quick course.
But since this hasn't happened here, yet: "In dubio pro reo"  ;)

Thank you Zero for your reply.

However, I still do not understand the aggressiveness in the discussion.

As I understand it, the agitation is the $348/hour. Of course, that in itself is very lurid and attention grabbing. But Doug was also fair enough to explain how the total came about.

I can relate to all of this in that I am in the same situation and my bill looks similar.

Professionally, I do something completely different full time.
Stock photography is purely a hobby for me. High quality cameras and other equipment were already in place. The photography itself I do not see as work, but as relaxation from my actual job. During this time I could have also watched TV, read a book or done something else.
So for me, this is also not working time, but relaxing leisure. It's the same with image post-processing. 

Without it being my intention at the beginning, I now regularly earn money with it.

From this personal point of view, which is also ultimately Doug's, I find the absolute numbers presented - leaving aside the hourly wage - very impressive. 
At least for a hobby. And that's how I understood Doug's explanations here.

I also do something else full time.

But if you understand the "Jensen logic", which wrongly claims that he is making $348/hour, because he only accounts for the time spent keywording, then you also must agree that those who have fun shooting (while doing something else full time, like us) AND also have fun keywording, must be making ♾️/hour.

Presenting his absolute numbers while leaving out his $348/hour silly falacy should be perfectly fine.
 :)
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: RalfLiebhold on July 04, 2023, 15:02
No worries, Ralf.

Discussing workflows is perfectly fine.

But there is difference between discussing workflows and chestbeating yourself with an absurd (for microstock) $348/hour earnings, only because you have fun doing your work. ::)

And all this, to impress some who will be will  be willing to pay for his get-rich-quick course.
But since this hasn't happened here, yet: "In dubio pro reo"  ;)

Thank you Zero for your reply.

However, I still do not understand the aggressiveness in the discussion.

As I understand it, the agitation is the $348/hour. Of course, that in itself is very lurid and attention grabbing. But Doug was also fair enough to explain how the total came about.

I can relate to all of this in that I am in the same situation and my bill looks similar.

Professionally, I do something completely different full time.
Stock photography is purely a hobby for me. High quality cameras and other equipment were already in place. The photography itself I do not see as work, but as relaxation from my actual job. During this time I could have also watched TV, read a book or done something else.
So for me, this is also not working time, but relaxing leisure. It's the same with image post-processing. 

Without it being my intention at the beginning, I now regularly earn money with it.

From this personal point of view, which is also ultimately Doug's, I find the absolute numbers presented - leaving aside the hourly wage - very impressive. 
At least for a hobby. And that's how I understood Doug's explanations here.

I also do something else full time.

But if you understand the "Jensen logic", which wrongly claims that he is making $348/hour, because he only accounts for the time spent keywording, then you also must agree that those who have fun shooting (while doing something else full time, like us) AND also have fun keywording, must be making ♾️/hour.

Presenting his absolute numbers while leaving out his $348/hour silly falacy should be perfectly fine.
 :)

Thank you, now I have finally understood your argumentation.

But Doug's hourly wage is still not wrong, he just defined the conditions differently than you or others and explained it the same way.
Now I can go to sleep calmly  ;D
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Zero Talent on July 04, 2023, 15:15

Thank you, now I have finally understood your argumentation.

But Doug's hourly wage is still not wrong, he just defined the conditions differently than you or others and explained it the same way.
Now I can go to sleep calmly  ;D

Again, if you agree that Jensen's hourly earnings are correct, then you must also agree that mine are also correct, when I say ♾️/hour.

But Ralf, I think you could do better, if you would remember your Latin, because both claims are absurd.

Sweet dreams!
 :)
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: blvdone on July 04, 2023, 15:18
No worries, Ralf.

Discussing workflows is perfectly fine.

But there is difference between discussing workflows and chestbeating yourself with an absurd (for microstock) $348/hour earnings, only because you have fun doing your work. ::)

And all this, to impress some who will be will  be willing to pay for his get-rich-quick course.
But since this hasn't happened here, yet: "In dubio pro reo"  ;)

Thank you Zero for your reply.

However, I still do not understand the aggressiveness in the discussion.

As I understand it, the agitation is the $348/hour. Of course, that in itself is very lurid and attention grabbing. But Doug was also fair enough to explain how the total came about.

I can relate to all of this in that I am in the same situation and my bill looks similar.

Professionally, I do something completely different full time.
Stock photography is purely a hobby for me. High quality cameras and other equipment were already in place. The photography itself I do not see as work, but as relaxation from my actual job. During this time I could have also watched TV, read a book or done something else.
So for me, this is also not working time, but relaxing leisure. It's the same with image post-processing. 

Without it being my intention at the beginning, I now regularly earn money with it.

From this personal point of view, which is also ultimately Doug's, I find the absolute numbers presented - leaving aside the hourly wage - very impressive. 
At least for a hobby. And that's how I understood Doug's explanations here.

I also do something else full time.

But if you understand the "Jensen logic", which wrongly claims that he is making $348/hour, because he only accounts for the time spent keywording, then you also must agree that those who have fun shooting (while doing something else full time, like us) AND also have fun keywording, must be making ♾️/hour.

Presenting his absolute numbers while leaving out his $348/hour silly falacy should be perfectly fine.
 :)

Thank you, now I have finally understood your argumentation.

But Doug's hourly wage is still not wrong, he just defined the conditions differently than you or others and explained it the same way.
Now I can go to sleep calmly  ;D

The point is, the vast majority of stock video contributors agree that his calculation of $348/hr is BS because we the professionals always calculate business expenses into account.  And the way he was acting like arrogant bully on Shutterstock forum, everybody remembers that not so favorably.  I have many enemies who dislikes me on forums, but he does too it seems.  And since he already made those "Get rich quick with stock video" tutorial videos, he had to advertise "$348/hr" when in reality probably majority of people who try doing stock videos end up making less than minimum wage especially since Shutterstock started the video subs in 2020.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: RalfLiebhold on July 04, 2023, 15:26

Thank you, now I have finally understood your argumentation.

But Doug's hourly wage is still not wrong, he just defined the conditions differently than you or others and explained it the same way.
Now I can go to sleep calmly  ;D

Again, if you agree that Jensen's hourly earnings are correct, then you must also agree that mine are also correct, when I say ♾️/hour.

But Ralf, I think you could do better, if you would remember your Latin, because both claims are absurd.

Sweet dreams!
 :)

Oh Zero, you are persistent. At no point did I say that I agree with Jensen's hourly wage or find it correct, but that it should not be called wrong under the given arguments.
Possible that these nuances only come out in my language.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Doug Jensen on July 04, 2023, 15:39
The point is, the vast majority of stock video contributors agree that his calculation of $348/hr is BS because we the professionals always calculate business expenses into account.  And the way he was acting like arrogant bully on Shutterstock forum, everybody remembers that not so favorably.  I have many enemies who dislikes me on forums, but he does too it seems.  And since he already made those "Get rich quick with stock video" tutorial videos, he had to advertise "$348/hr" when in reality probably majority of people who try doing stock videos end up making less than minimum wage especially since Shutterstock started the video subs in 2020.

You're a liar.  I challenge you to document a single time where I said stock was a way to "get rich quick".  Just the opposite!!!!  I tell people it takes hard work and a lot of time to build a portfolio that probably won't even pay anything back for months or years.  I liken it to planting seeds and waiting for the harvest to come in.  My message is that you can increase your odds of having a profitable "harvest" if you choose the right type kinds of seeds to plant, where to plant them, how to fertilize them, and more importantly how to drastically reduce the time and effort you put into your "farming".   But no, it is not a scheme to get rich quick.  And i have never said anything but that.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Doug Jensen on July 04, 2023, 15:45
Oh Zero, you are persistent. At no point did I say that I agree with Jensen's hourly wage or find it correct, but that it should not be called wrong under the given arguments.
Possible that these nuances only come out in my language.

Perhaps you can get No Talent to present us with his "approved" formula for measuring the financial success/failure for someone's stock footage business.  I have tried to get it out of him, but he just wants to call names and throw rocks.  Not one thing he has posted is helpful to the conversation.   See if you can get him to give us his approved formula and I'll plug my numbers into and see where things stand.  Good luck, though, because we both know he has no such formula.  He's a troll, hiding behind a fake (but appropirate name) with nothing to contribute except animosity towards others.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Zero Talent on July 04, 2023, 15:49

Oh Zero, you are persistent. At no point did I say that I agree with Jensen's hourly wage or find it correct, but that it should not be called wrong under the given arguments.
Possible that these nuances only come out in my language.

I'm sorry Ralf, we must have a language problem, indeed.

If something is not correct, then it is wrong.

"Wrong" and "correct" are antonyms.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Zero Talent on July 04, 2023, 16:02
Oh Zero, you are persistent. At no point did I say that I agree with Jensen's hourly wage or find it correct, but that it should not be called wrong under the given arguments.
Possible that these nuances only come out in my language.

Perhaps you can get No Talent to present us with his "approved" formula for measuring the financial success/failure for someone's stock footage business.  I have tried to get it out of him, but he just wants to call names and throw rocks.  Not one thing he has posted is helpful to the conversation.   See if you can get him to give us his approved formula and I'll plug my numbers into and see where things stand.  Good luck, though, because we both know he has no such formula.  He's a troll, hiding behind a fake (but appropirate name) with nothing to contribute except animosity towards others.

You can't be further from the truth.

Fyi, excluding July, my all-time number is 36.9% higher than yours, and my combined photo + video port is probably 4 times smaller than yours.

And yet, I am not claiming that I am making 1,500/hour, when I account only for the time spent keywording.

I am simply making ♾️/hour, because that's how the silly "Jensen financials" work.
 ;)
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Wilm on July 04, 2023, 16:24
At least, that's how I see it with calculating the hourly rate. And stand by my statement that a calculation of 5 minutes per file is unrealistic from my point of view.

Yes, it might be unrealistic from your point of view because you do things differently than me. Obviously, you are welcome to do things anyway you want to, but that doesn't mean I can't do what I say I can do.  I can't free-climb Half Dome in three hours or run a 100 meter dash under 10 seconds, but that doesn't mean other people can't do it.

Yes, I really can process 12 clip per hour (edit, grade, export, generate metadata, and upload) without batting an eye.   Actually it is closer to three minutes, but I like to be conservative and say 5 minutes.   How can I do it? Because I have a workflow and system in place that allows me to do it.  And through my online master class and in-person workshops, I have taught hundreds of other people to use the exact same  methods to speed up their workflow too.     Here's a secret:   The less time I spend creating my content, the more money I earn per hour of my time.  It is that simple.  If someone can cut their time to create content in half, they have instantly doubled their hourly income.  It is as simple as that.

Some contributors are like a cobbler working in their little home workshop to create a perfect pair of shoes by hand.  While other people, like myself have more of an assembly line approach where speed and efficiency are king.  You might be building a house with a pocket full of nails and a hammer, while I'm using a high-powered nail gun to get the same job done faster.  You might be an author banging away on a manual typewriter, while I'm cruising along with a word processor to get the same work done in a fraction of the time. 

Why is it that people can't understand that workflow, and the tools we use, actually matter to the bottom line? And that someone else may have a better way of getting the job done.

May I ask what software you use to edit, grade, export, and upload?

May I ask how you generate and manage your vast library metadata, and how you use are able to use older metadate to automate the creation of metadata for new clips?

May I ask how you shoot your footage and what tools you use onboard your camera, and during ingest, that will make you more efficient in post?

Doug,
we've been through this too. At the time, you insisted that there was no money to be made with pictures, only with videos. From that discussion, you must remember that I don't offer videos. So I can't answer the last part of your question.

My average earnings per image are about $125, but that can't be compared to you because I've been around a lot longer than you.

As for the hourly rate, I come up with different numbers because I calculate it differently than you do. We've been through this too, but the amount of time per image varies a lot for me. My lucky shot made me an hourly wage of about $8,000. But I also have many images that have had tens of hours go into them that have not made me a dollar.

However I calculate it, I've never managed 5 minutes per picture.

The least amount of time, on average, is in the photos. Depending on the subject, just pressing the shutter where I was. Or setting up a tripod, making sure the lighting is right, shooting for maybe 30 minutes, post-processing, tagging, uploading, saving data...that was a bit more time.

The vectors took more time on average because I often made sketches beforehand.

And most of the time went into 3D renderings.

My calculated hourly wage is in any case significantly lower than yours. Considerably lower! Because the images didn‘t fall from the sky - I had to create them. This time of creating them was fun. But this time still is part of my calculation. And that is the main difference to your calculation.

I upload jpg files including IPTC data. When uploading to AS it still takes some extra time to take care of the most important keywords (which usually costs some more minutes).


Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Big Toe on July 04, 2023, 16:56
Again, if you agree that Jensen's hourly earnings are correct, then you must also agree that mine are also correct, when I say ♾️/hour.

But Ralf, I think you could do better, if you would remember your Latin, because both claims are absurd.

Sweet dreams!
 :)

Dougs calculations can make sense under certain conditions.

Let's say you are taking pictures or videos just as a hobby and are just returning from a cruise to Anarctica and Patagonia where you took a lot of great pictures of penguins, albatrosses, orcas, icebergs, mountains and whatnot.

Now someone tells you that you can earn money by offering those pictures at agencies on the Internet.

Then you can try to calculate whether the money you can earn is worth your time to process, keyword and upload the pictures. You don't have to take into account the time it took to take pictures, because you already have the pictures and you will probably never earn enough to cover the costs of your trip anyway.

If you are doing this as a business, you cannot calculate that way, though. Even if you enjoy every aspect of the work, even the keywording. Because the day has only so many hours and even if you enjoy yourself the whole time you need to make a certain amount of money per hour to cover your expanses and the cost of living. Otherwise, you cannot do it as a business, at least not without other sources of money.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: f8 on July 04, 2023, 16:56
This thread is an embarassment and so pre-pubescent.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Doug Jensen on July 04, 2023, 16:58
My calculated hourly wage is in any case significantly lower than yours. Considerably lower! Because the images didn‘t fall from the sky - I had to create them. This time of creating them was fun. But this time still is part of my calculation. And that is the main difference to your calculation.

Wim, thanks for the explanation and glimpse into your way of doing stock.  There are many ways to skin a cat and how we judge the results.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Doug Jensen on July 04, 2023, 17:00
Again, if you agree that Jensen's hourly earnings are correct, then you must also agree that mine are also correct, when I say ♾️/hour.

But Ralf, I think you could do better, if you would remember your Latin, because both claims are absurd.

Sweet dreams!
 :)

Dougs calculations can make sense under certain conditions.

Let's say you are taking pictures or videos just as a hobby and are just returning from a cruise to Anarctica and Patagonia where you took a lot of great pictures of penguins, albatrosses, orcas, icebergs, mountains and whatnot.

Now someone tells you that you can earn money by offering those pictures at agencies on the Internet.

Then you can try to calculate whether the money you can earn is worth your time to process, keyword and upload the pictures. You don't have to take into account the time it took to take pictures, because you already have the pictures and you will probably never earn enough to cover the costs of your trip anyway.

If you are doing this as a business, you cannot calculate that way, though. Even if you enjoy every aspect of the work, even the keywording. Because the day has only so many hours and even you enjoy yourself the whole time you need to make a certain amount of money per hour to cover your expanses and the cost of living. Otherwise, you cannot do it as a business, at least not without other sources of money.

Exactly right.  You have summed up my position very well. I don't understand why it gets people pissed off if I don't include my time shooting.  Who wants to punch a clock?
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Zero Talent on July 04, 2023, 17:35
Again, if you agree that Jensen's hourly earnings are correct, then you must also agree that mine are also correct, when I say ♾️/hour.

But Ralf, I think you could do better, if you would remember your Latin, because both claims are absurd.

Sweet dreams!
 :)

Dougs calculations can make sense under certain conditions.

Let's say you are taking pictures or videos just as a hobby and are just returning from a cruise to Anarctica and Patagonia where you took a lot of great pictures of penguins, albatrosses, orcas, icebergs, mountains and whatnot.

Now someone tells you that you can earn money by offering those pictures at agencies on the Internet.

Then you can try to calculate whether the money you can earn is worth your time to process, keyword and upload the pictures. You don't have to take into account the time it took to take pictures, because you already have the pictures and you will probably never earn enough to cover the costs of your trip anyway.

If you are doing this as a business, you cannot calculate that way, though. Even if you enjoy every aspect of the work, even the keywording. Because the day has only so many hours and even if you enjoy yourself the whole time you need to make a certain amount of money per hour to cover your expanses and the cost of living. Otherwise, you cannot do it as a business, at least not without other sources of money.
Sure thing.

Then my ♾️/hour stands correct, since almost all my photos and videos are made while on vacation, or on trips paid by my company, thus I had zero production costs.
And since I also enjoy keywording, not just shooting and processing, then I also have zero keywording costs.

This makes my hourly rate ♾️/hour
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Annie2022 on July 04, 2023, 17:40
Well, it looks like the UFOs have finally arrived, transported us back in time and landed us back in the old Shutterstock forum. The never-ending argument, Doug's hourly rate calculation.  ;D

Welcome to MSG, Doug.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Doug Jensen on July 04, 2023, 18:22
Well, it looks like the UFOs have finally arrived, transported us back in time and landed us back in the old Shutterstock forum. The never-ending argument, Doug's hourly rate calculation.  ;D

Welcome to MSG, Doug.

Ha, ha.  Hi Annie, it' good to know you are still around.
Welcome to MSG . . . and goodbye.  This kind of crap isn't worth my time.  I came by, made the little baby cry, and now I'll leave before he wants me to change his dirty diaper.  I'll drop by next year to see them still bitching about Shutterstock and "the man" putting them down.
See ya.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Big Toe on July 04, 2023, 19:17
Sure thing.

Then my ♾️/hour stands correct, since almost all my photos and videos are made while on vacation, or on trips paid by my company, thus I had zero production costs.
And since I also enjoy keywording, not just shooting and processing, then I also have zero keywording costs.

This makes my hourly rate ♾️/hour

Well, I guess you can see it that way. I would question, though, whether it makes sense for you to calculate an hourly rate at all, since in your case, you seem to be enjoying windfall profits for basically doing nothing, similar to winning the lottery. You would not usually calculate an hourly rate for that either.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Zero Talent on July 04, 2023, 21:07
Sure thing.

Then my ♾️/hour stands correct, since almost all my photos and videos are made while on vacation, or on trips paid by my company, thus I had zero production costs.
And since I also enjoy keywording, not just shooting and processing, then I also have zero keywording costs.

This makes my hourly rate ♾️/hour

Well, I guess you can see it that way. I would question, though, whether it makes sense for you to calculate an hourly rate at all, since in your case, you seem to be enjoying windfall profits for basically doing nothing, similar to winning the lottery. You would not usually calculate an hourly rate for that either.

Not really, I am not doing "nothing", I am spending TIME on this lucrative hobby. But time is not free. Time is money.

Time may be taken away from doing some even more lucrative business.
Or from learning a new skill than may pay back much more in the future.

Or simply, time is taken away from the family.  I am sure that many of us know well how many times our partners were upset with the amount of time we spent on this passion.

Not accounting for ALL the time spent doing this work, while claiming that money is falling from the sky at a rate of $348/hour (only to impress people), because only the keywording time matters, is a fallacy.

Anyway, it will be also interesting to see a tax return from Mr. Jensen, to understand if he truly claimed zero expenses, for this business. I have my doubts here, but even so, what I said above remains a fact: time is money.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Brasilnut on July 05, 2023, 07:24
Anyway, happy to report that today I had my best-ever sale at micros which coincidentally was at SS and not Alamy or Robert Harding.

Probably just got lucky here but there appears to be some life left in this industry.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Taxco boy on July 05, 2023, 07:44
Any reasonable contributor would laugh at what Doug says...
- 5 minutes to colour-grade the quality video, provide metadata and upload/submit
- 348$ per hour earning rate
- not including travel and fuel costs in the calculation.

C'mon, guys, why are you splitting hairs and dealing with semantics when such BS is being shovelled right in front of you?
It defies logic and experience on such a spectacular level that even the discussion about it should seem preposterous.
He's trying again to sell courses - fine by me, but not at the expense of gaslighting contributors into believing such outlandish claims.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Taxco boy on July 05, 2023, 07:50
Probably just got lucky here but there appears to be some life left in this industry.


Congrats Alex, but probably the wrong thread! lol
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: blvdone on July 05, 2023, 08:42
Any reasonable contributor would laugh at what Doug says...
- 5 minutes to colour-grade the quality video, provide metadata and upload/submit
- 348$ per hour earning rate
- not including travel and fuel costs in the calculation.

C'mon, guys, why are you splitting hairs and dealing with semantics when such BS is being shovelled right in front of you?
It defies logic and experience on such a spectacular level that even the discussion about it should seem preposterous.
He's trying again to sell courses - fine by me, but not at the expense of gaslighting contributors into believing such outlandish claims.

Exactly.  It's ridiculous to make $348/hr claim.  It's disingenuous at least to make such a bogus claim to unsuspecting newbies.  It's laughable.  lol  In reality, many people in the industry knows it can often end up less than minimum wage per hour after 3, 4 years of low/no sales.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Zero Talent on July 05, 2023, 09:45
(https://i.imgflip.com/7rlaze.jpg)
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Taxco boy on July 05, 2023, 09:52
I came by, made the little baby cry, and now I'll leave before he wants me to change his dirty diaper. 

Seriously Doug... this is the level you expect us to go down to?
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Big Toe on July 05, 2023, 09:55
Sure thing.

Then my ♾️/hour stands correct, since almost all my photos and videos are made while on vacation, or on trips paid by my company, thus I had zero production costs.
And since I also enjoy keywording, not just shooting and processing, then I also have zero keywording costs.

This makes my hourly rate ♾️/hour

Well, I guess you can see it that way. I would question, though, whether it makes sense for you to calculate an hourly rate at all, since in your case, you seem to be enjoying windfall profits for basically doing nothing, similar to winning the lottery. You would not usually calculate an hourly rate for that either.

Not really, I am not doing "nothing", I am spending TIME on this lucrative hobby. But time is not free. Time is money.

Time may be taken away from doing some even more lucrative business.
Or from learning a new skill than may pay back much more in the future.

Or simply, time is taken away from the family.  I am sure that many of us know well how many times our partners were upset with the amount of time we spent on this passion.

Now, what could possibly be more lucrative than an infinite amount of money per hour?

You cannot have it both ways. Either you are doing stock photos because it is what you love, without financial considerations and then what does it matter that something else would earn you more money, when it is just a hobby?

Or else, you do stock fotografy, or at least parts of it for the money and then you can calculate your earning per hour, either considering all time invested or only the time you would invest anyway, if you would not earn anything, because it is your hobby.


Not accounting for ALL the time spent doing this work, while claiming that money is falling from the sky at a rate of $348/hour (only to impress people), because only the keywording time matters, is a fallacy.

Anyway, it will be also interesting to see a tax return from Mr. Jensen, to understand if he truly claimed zero expenses, for this business. I have my doubts here, but even so, what I said above remains a fact: time is money.

Allt hat being said, the $348/hour is a different story. Even if we accept the premises for the calculations, I have some trouble believing the claim that Doug can process and keyword a file in five minutes. But that is a different issue.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Zero Talent on July 05, 2023, 10:11

Now, what could possibly be more lucrative than an infinite amount of money per hour?

You cannot have it both ways. Either you are doing stock photos because it is what you love, without financial considerations and then what does it matter that something else would earn you more money, when it is just a hobby?

Obviously that's absurd. It is a logical tool used to prove that the Jensen hypothesis is flawed.

My point is that Time is never free. Time costs money even when you do something you enjoy.
Time is probably our most expensive resource, and it must be accounted for.

Think about this:

Would you swap your life with Warren Buffet - one of the richest and most respected people in the world?
Or with a person with only 100 USD in her/his pocket?

Buffet is 92. The poor person is 18.

Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Big Toe on July 05, 2023, 11:01

Now, what could possibly be more lucrative than an infinite amount of money per hour?

You cannot have it both ways. Either you are doing stock photos because it is what you love, without financial considerations and then what does it matter that something else would earn you more money, when it is just a hobby?

Obviously that's absurd. It is a logical tool used to prove that the Jensen hypothesis is flawed.

My point is that Time is never free. Time costs money even when you do something you enjoy.
Time is probably our most expensive resource, and it must be accounted for.

Think about this:

Would you swap your life with Warren Buffet - one of the richest and most respected people in the world?
Or with a person with only 100 USD in her/his pocket?

Buffet is 92. The poor person is 18.


Doesn't your example show the opposite of what you claim? Obviously, there is no equivalency between money and time.

Buffet cannot buy himself more time with his money (or only to a limited degree with better healthcare) and the 18 year old person cannot necessarily monetize the years they have ahead of them.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Zero Talent on July 05, 2023, 11:38

Doesn't your example show the opposite of what you claim? Obviously, there is no equivalency between money and time.

Buffet cannot buy himself more time with his money (or only to a limited degree with better healthcare) and the 18 year old person cannot necessarily monetize the years they have ahead of them.

No it doesn't. If you consider Time as being free, meaning no Time is factored in the equation, then you have something divided by zero, in other words the absurdity of ♾️.
Or $348 as per "Jensen's financials", when you only consider 5 minutes for keywording, without considering the Time for planning, shooting, processing, etc.
Obviously, when you factor all this missed Time, then the infamous $348/hour will fall down fast to realistic values.

Playing games, because you enjoy gaming, is not free. You could use that Time to shoot and process clips, for example.
So playing games for fun, is depriving you of that revenue, costing you the money you missed.
You should always treat Time as a valuable resource, which is never free. This why we have the expression "wasting Time".

Those who chose the 18 years old option are evaluating Time at more than $110 Billions (Buffet's worth) / 74 years difference/ 365 days per year / 24 hours per day =  ~$170k/hour >> $0/hour
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Just_to_inform_people2 on July 05, 2023, 14:56

Doesn't your example show the opposite of what you claim? Obviously, there is no equivalency between money and time.

Buffet cannot buy himself more time with his money (or only to a limited degree with better healthcare) and the 18 year old person cannot necessarily monetize the years they have ahead of them.

No it doesn't. If you consider Time as being free, meaning no Time is factored in the equation, then you have something divided by zero, in other words the absurdity of ♾️.
Or $348 as per "Jensen's financials", when you only consider 5 minutes for keywording, without considering the Time for planning, shooting, processing, etc.
Obviously, when you factor all this missed Time, then the infamous $348/hour will fall down fast to realistic values.

Playing games, because you enjoy gaming, is not free. You could use that Time to shoot and process clips, for example.
So playing games for fun, is depriving you of that revenue, costing you the money you missed.
You should always treat Time as a valuable resource, which is never free. This why we have the expression "wasting Time".

Those who chose the 18 years old option are evaluating Time at more than $110 Billions (Buffet's worth) / 74 years difference/ 365 days per year / 24 hours per day =  ~$170k/hour >> $0/hour

Not necessarily. If you work from 9 to 5, you have an hourly wage right (probably a monthly salary but still).

Then you have to commute to work. One takes ten minutes, the other two hours. This time is not factored in. Then you probably drink coffee in the morning, you take a shower (who wants to smell when getting at work?). You eat breakfast because you need some energy to do your work. You sleep during the night to be able to do your work the next day.

So it can be quite arbitrarily what you may count or not as being part of how much time it actually costs to make this hourly wage/monthly salary.

You count in this and that. Doug counts in this and that. You disagree but both of you are not wrong or right.

And in that sense Doug came out better asking you for your calculation with an open vision while you only ridiculed him and did not show how you would calculate stuff.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Zero Talent on July 05, 2023, 15:43

Not necessarily. If you work from 9 to 5, you have an hourly wage right (probably a monthly salary but still).

Then you have to commute to work. One takes ten minutes, the other two hours. This time is not factored in. Then you probably drink coffee in the morning, you take a shower (who wants to smell when getting at work?). You eat breakfast because you need some energy to do your work. You sleep during the night to be able to do your work the next day.

So it can be quite arbitrarily what you may count or not as being part of how much time it actually costs to make this hourly wage/monthly salary.

You count in this and that. Doug counts in this and that. You disagree but both of you are not wrong or right.

And in that sense Doug came out better asking you for your calculation with an open vision while you only ridiculed him and did not show how you would calculate stuff.

A realistic calculation, as several others have suggested, must be done like for a regular business, no matter if you may, or may not have fun doing that business (while wishing everybody to be lucky enough to also enjoy doing their main jobs, not just microstock)

Include the time spent planning, the time spent traveling (or a proportion of it), the time spent shooting, the time spent editing, storing the files, the time spent keywording, maintaining/upgrading your equipment, then deduct amortization and depreciation, and any other expenses, as indicated by the IRS rules (which, btw, are also allowing for some meal deductions, fyi), etc.

Basically talk to an accountant if all this feels overwhelming.

Only then you may arrive at the realistic hourly/rate, instead of that $348/hour non-sense based only on feelings, on fun or not fun. ::)

Btw, I didn't ridicule him. I simply proved him wrong.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Taxco boy on July 06, 2023, 05:30
I'm not sure what the fuss is about. I think Doug's earnings can be easily bumped up to 600$ per hour. Some examples.

- If the person immensely enjoys keywording, it's a passion, so why include it in calculations? Should be dropped off the list.
- Resubmitting AI rejections and regular rejections from other agencies is actually fun. Looking at this green bar moving while a file is being uploaded is tantalizing. In fact, resubmitting is such fun that deleting an asset and resubmitting it again is a legit passage of time. So again, why count resubmissions toward time spent?
- Enjoy scouting locations before shooting? (Some drone pros do that before shooting footage). Why count this towards your time if you would do this for fun anyway.
- The list is long. Love flying planes or driving across the country? Total fun, who doubts it? Travel photographers can take it off the list.
- Need to buy SD cards and external disks? Spending money is fun, no need to include it. That's why people enjoy shopping on the weekends.
- Keeping up with backups of your footage and copying stuff over to external devices? Again, this is fun, people do it just out of passion for backups.
- Paying for stock submitter for multiple uploads? Love it! Charging multiple batteries? Fun! Oh, almost forgot.... the wonders of maintaining equipment. It's a dream come true.

And don't forget the spiritual aspect of it - laughing all the way to the bank is a liberating and enlightening experience.

There is literally an unlimited potential for inflating your earnings by excluding fun things. Give Doug some slack, he is pretty conservative with his exclusion list.

Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Taxco boy on July 06, 2023, 05:53

Btw, I didn't ridicule him. I simply proved him wrong.

I see no problem with ridiculing and lighthearted fun. After all, if we are being gaslighted it justifies a little pushback.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Just_to_inform_people2 on July 06, 2023, 10:36
(https://i.imgflip.com/7rlaze.jpg)
The last time I saw Jeniffer she didn't look like the photo on the right, close, but not exactly. So that means that Doug is right because this statement is false :)
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Zero Talent on July 06, 2023, 11:21
The last time I saw Jeniffer she didn't look like the photo on the right, close, but not exactly. So that means that Doug is right because this statement is false :)

Here you go, show us more of your meme analysis skills:
(https://i.postimg.cc/dtntymLW/Screenshot-20230706-123109-Chrome.jpg)

 ;)
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: alison1414 on July 06, 2023, 11:28
I recently found an image of mine on Shutterstock being offered as a "Free Download." I NEVER authorized this. I deleted all my images then and there.  It was already not what it used to be since they messed with the forum. They can bite me.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Pacesetter on July 06, 2023, 17:56
 8)
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: William Perry on July 06, 2023, 19:06
Looking for alternatives am looking for alternatives. Has anyone tried Art Storefronts? If so what has your experience been? Is it worth the money?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Lowls on July 07, 2023, 08:42
Interviewer: Good to catch up with you again DJ so since SSs new payment tier system and the introduction of A.I. and free give aways, have you found that your bottom line has moved south at all.
DJ For sure but you know because I listen to my own advice ... via my online course ... I have managed to diversify to soften the blow. And my average income from stock is a modest $348.00 per hour.
Interviewer Only Fans right?
DJ *smirk ... feetfinder ... bunions and calves like canned corned beef next to a bar fire, who knew.
Interviewer Before you discovered your new audience what kept the money rolling in?
DJ Well it was being modest and quietly humble. I think having someone to look up to in the industry really was what saw my meteoric rise in popularity with the gullible iPhone owners of Bangladesh struggling through their formative years. And of course they saw a famous, rich, videographer who's talent bordered on prodigy and yeah, they thought collectively, they wanted some of that. Of course I was duty bound then to rise to the heights of the pedestal everyone I had ever met put me on. And I exceeded their expectations. Obviously. I taught them they needed three things to equal my success.
1. My course.
2. State of the art computer.
3. A Shutterstock profile.
That's it.
Interviewer What about a camera?
DJ I don't count that because I already had a camera.
Interviewer A camera set-up worth in excess of $60,000.00+ bucks.
DJ Whinging about equipment wastes my time. If you want to be a successful stock videographer then you'll buy professional equipment but not before you've bought my course.
Interviewer You've also got access to regular rocket launches and regularly film and TV location contracts.
DJ Right and the money I make from stock footage is just stuff I would film anyway even if I didnt have those press passes and contracts. I would just do it from much, much, further away.
Interviewer Well thanks DJ it has been my honour to catch up.
DJ If anyone does want to change their life and become a less worthless human for once and excell please find my course at alphamalesnapper.com/ronburgundy and remember ... you're only one snap away ...  ☝️😉 ... from the top.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Taxco boy on July 12, 2023, 08:23
Interviewer: Good to catch up with you again DJ so since SSs new payment tier system and the introduction of A.I. and free give aways, have you found that your bottom line has moved south at all.
DJ For sure but you know because I listen to my own advice ... via my online course ... I have managed to diversify to soften the blow. And my average income from stock is a modest $348.00 per hour.
Interviewer Only Fans right?
DJ *smirk ... feetfinder ... bunions and calves like canned corned beef next to a bar fire, who knew.
Interviewer Before you discovered your new audience what kept the money rolling in?
DJ Well it was being modest and quietly humble. I think having someone to look up to in the industry really was what saw my meteoric rise in popularity with the gullible iPhone owners of Bangladesh struggling through their formative years. And of course they saw a famous, rich, videographer who's talent bordered on prodigy and yeah, they thought collectively, they wanted some of that. Of course I was duty bound then to rise to the heights of the pedestal everyone I had ever met put me on. And I exceeded their expectations. Obviously. I taught them they needed three things to equal my success.
1. My course.
2. State of the art computer.
3. A Shutterstock profile.
That's it.
Interviewer What about a camera?
DJ I don't count that because I already had a camera.
Interviewer A camera set-up worth in excess of $60,000.00+ bucks.
DJ Whinging about equipment wastes my time. If you want to be a successful stock videographer then you'll buy professional equipment but not before you've bought my course.
Interviewer You've also got access to regular rocket launches and regularly film and TV location contracts.
DJ Right and the money I make from stock footage is just stuff I would film anyway even if I didnt have those press passes and contracts. I would just do it from much, much, further away.
Interviewer Well thanks DJ it has been my honour to catch up.
DJ If anyone does want to change their life and become a less worthless human for once and excell please find my course at alphamalesnapper.com/ronburgundy and remember ... you're only one snap away ...  ☝️😉 ... from the top.

LOL.

Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Diana Herrmann on July 25, 2023, 08:46
My SS earnings used to be 15x higher than now, and they just keep nosediving from month to month. Once a good earner, now abomination. Seems like it will join mid-tier agencies soon. Inexcusable.

During this same time, my Adobe Stock earnings has been growing, and Istock has been consistent.

I'm considering to start treating SS like the other mid-tier agencies and completely stop uploading there.

According to the earnings rating, Adobe is double SS.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Uncle Pete on July 26, 2023, 11:49
My SS earnings used to be 15x higher than now, and they just keep nosediving from month to month. Once a good earner, now abomination. Seems like it will join mid-tier agencies soon. Inexcusable.

During this same time, my Adobe Stock earnings has been growing, and Istock has been consistent.

I'm considering to start treating SS like the other mid-tier agencies and completely stop uploading there.

According to the earnings rating, Adobe is double SS.

AdobeStock    74.4
Shutterstock    35.2 (roughly $75 a month for the best people who volunteer to take the poll)
Dreamstime    3
iStock               29
Alamy               10
Deposit             2.8
Bigstock            2.5

I'm small time and used to make, on average, $100 a month on SSTK. Same images and more, some months just over $10 but on average is closer to $25. Keep in mind, the on average part. The only thing that props up SSTK is an occasional $50 sale, the rest are dimes.

AS now a consistent $50 a month. AS 979 images, SS 5,429 images. Yes they are in many instances different images, because of what each agency accepts. DT? HA!  :-X A cross of images that are on AS and SS and it's taking years to reach the $100 to decide if I want to continue or drop them. Alamy pays 20% now and iStock actually trudges on, slow but steady.

Joining more agencies is not my answer. Working for the ones that pay and ignoring the bottom feeders and parasites, is my way to distribute. No reason to get so desperate for cheap pay, that will never grow or amount to anything significant. There is no Mid-Tier anymore. Barely a handful of good agencies, ($50 a month) and all the rest are low earners or low value.

Dump the chumps, work the ones that pay best.  8)
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: dragonblade on July 29, 2023, 00:53
He's trying again to sell courses - fine by me, but not at the expense of gaslighting contributors into believing such outlandish claims.

That's not the only thing he makes outrageous claims about. On the old SS forum, he stated that I didn't have any experience selling stock videos. I'm sorry but that is complete nonsense. I was selling stock videos on SS long before he joined that now extinct forum. And I had also sold videos through P5 as well.

Despite Doug Jenson's lies, I think I did okay with such a small video port on SS. In actual fact, it sounded like I did better than him when he first started on SS. In the beginning, I made three video sales from a port of 35 videos. I recall Doug saying that had about 200 videos or so when he first started on SS and made less sales than I did. Later on, I doubled the size of my video port and that effectively doubled my video sales.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Injustice for all on July 31, 2023, 10:36
Best month of the year on SS thanks to several good single sales,so a much better month than AS,i earned more than double on SS compared to AS this month.
Also on Depositphotos i had good sales this month,maybe this is due to the fact that i recently resumed uploading on DP after a break of a couple of years.





Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Jens G on August 04, 2023, 06:58
I just noticed that I have not had any OD sales since the middle of May. About 5% of my sales used to be OD's, but now there are none.

Have others noticed the same trend?
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: MPfoto71 on August 04, 2023, 07:22
I just noticed that I have not had any OD sales since the middle of May. About 5% of my sales used to be OD's, but now there are none.

Have others noticed the same trend?
Just checked my last 3 month - about 1 in 40 sales was OD, that rate is decreasing for me too.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: dtemm12390 on August 05, 2023, 16:07
see these two screenshots ⬇️

No reply even after many emails and 19 days ?? my account has not been activated even after proofs ?
i emailed them multiple times and with different E-mail address also. now they are not responding.

I think my account was deleted by Shutterstock on the first day without any valid reason. They are not responding, and it seems they cannot recover it. Do you consider this to be Shutterstock's fraud? What do you think?

what should i do now ?

Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Uncle Pete on August 06, 2023, 10:57
see these two screenshots ⬇️

No reply even after many emails and 19 days ?? my account has not been activated even after proofs ?
i emailed them multiple times and with different E-mail address also. now they are not responding.

I think my account was deleted by Shutterstock on the first day without any valid reason. They are not responding, and it seems they cannot recover it. Do you consider this to be Shutterstock's fraud? What do you think?

what should i do now ?

Wait?
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: kuriouskat on August 06, 2023, 13:09
see these two screenshots ⬇️

No reply even after many emails and 19 days ?? my account has not been activated even after proofs ?
i emailed them multiple times and with different E-mail address also. now they are not responding.

I think my account was deleted by Shutterstock on the first day without any valid reason. They are not responding, and it seems they cannot recover it. Do you consider this to be Shutterstock's fraud? What do you think?

what should i do now ?

Wait?

You've redacted the software you used from your screenshot, but if it's Midjourney, or other AI, then that's your problem.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: dtemm12390 on August 06, 2023, 15:05
see these two screenshots ⬇️

No reply even after many emails and 19 days ?? my account has not been activated even after proofs ?
i emailed them multiple times and with different E-mail address also. now they are not responding.

I think my account was deleted by Shutterstock on the first day without any valid reason. They are not responding, and it seems they cannot recover it. Do you consider this to be Shutterstock's fraud? What do you think?

what should i do now ?

Wait?

You've redacted the software you used from your screenshot, but if it's Midjourney, or other AI, then that's your problem.
that's not the problem,
they have deactivated my account due to copyright issue, that I have uploaded on adobe
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: dtemm12390 on August 06, 2023, 15:10
see these two screenshots ⬇️

No reply even after many emails and 19 days ?? my account has not been activated even after proofs ?
i emailed them multiple times and with different E-mail address also. now they are not responding.

I think my account was deleted by Shutterstock on the first day without any valid reason. They are not responding, and it seems they cannot recover it. Do you consider this to be Shutterstock's fraud? What do you think?

what should i do now ?

Wait?
but they are not replying, if had any problem with my content they would at least tell me as before
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Noedelhap on August 06, 2023, 17:05
I would wait until the Compliance team has reached a final verdict. If the proof you submitted is ok, your account will be reinstated. It's not useful and possibly counter-productive to keep spamming them for a reaction.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: kuriouskat on August 07, 2023, 07:45
see these two screenshots ⬇️

No reply even after many emails and 19 days ?? my account has not been activated even after proofs ?
i emailed them multiple times and with different E-mail address also. now they are not responding.

I think my account was deleted by Shutterstock on the first day without any valid reason. They are not responding, and it seems they cannot recover it. Do you consider this to be Shutterstock's fraud? What do you think?

what should i do now ?

Wait?

You've redacted the software you used from your screenshot, but if it's Midjourney, or other AI, then that's your problem.
that's not the problem,
they have deactivated my account due to copyright issue, that I have uploaded on adobe

It was just a thought, as Adobe take AI content, but Shutterstock won't take it because of copyright issues. If it's AI, then the removal of your account for copright reasons make sense.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: dtemm12390 on August 07, 2023, 12:07
see these two screenshots ⬇️

No reply even after many emails and 19 days ?? my account has not been activated even after proofs ?
i emailed them multiple times and with different E-mail address also. now they are not responding.

I think my account was deleted by Shutterstock on the first day without any valid reason. They are not responding, and it seems they cannot recover it. Do you consider this to be Shutterstock's fraud? What do you think?

what should i do now ?

Wait?

You've redacted the software you used from your screenshot, but if it's Midjourney, or other AI, then that's your problem.
that's not the problem,
they have deactivated my account due to copyright issue, that I have uploaded on adobe

It was just a thought, as Adobe take AI content, but Shutterstock won't take it because of copyright issues. If it's AI, then the removal of your account for copright reasons make sense.
I have uploaded on both since last 3 years when AI generation was not much popular, I upload as illustration and it is very difficult to tell if it is AI generated as it looks like illustration and edited completely, this is not the same as the image generated by Midjourney etc, thats the reason why my images approved,
even I never used ai geneted term in title on adobe, shutter, because it not completely ai generated
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: kuriouskat on August 07, 2023, 13:52
see these two screenshots ⬇️

No reply even after many emails and 19 days ?? my account has not been activated even after proofs ?
i emailed them multiple times and with different E-mail address also. now they are not responding.

I think my account was deleted by Shutterstock on the first day without any valid reason. They are not responding, and it seems they cannot recover it. Do you consider this to be Shutterstock's fraud? What do you think?

what should i do now ?

Wait?

You've redacted the software you used from your screenshot, but if it's Midjourney, or other AI, then that's your problem.
that's not the problem,
they have deactivated my account due to copyright issue, that I have uploaded on adobe

It was just a thought, as Adobe take AI content, but Shutterstock won't take it because of copyright issues. If it's AI, then the removal of your account for copright reasons make sense.
I have uploaded on both since last 3 years when AI generation was not much popular, I upload as illustration and it is very difficult to tell if it is AI generated as it looks like illustration and edited completely, this is not the same as the image generated by Midjourney etc, thats the reason why my images approved,
even I never used ai geneted term in title on adobe, shutter, because it not completely ai generated

But if it's partially AI generated, then you can't submit it to Shutterstock due to their decision not to accept AI generated content. If you broke the rules then this will be why they closed your account.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Wilm on August 07, 2023, 16:02
Content Submissions

Please note: Intentionally submitting content to which you do not own copyright or submitting content that infringes on the copyright of another artist will lead to immediate account termination.

Submitting content that infringes on the rights of any person. Including directly copying or excessive inspiration from work to which you do not own the copyright.

This exactly is what AI does!
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: cobalt on August 07, 2023, 17:18
But they take ai images that are generated by their own ai generator. Look through the collection, there is a lot of ai content that is labelled as ai generated.

I guess the difference is it was done on their own engine which is trained on legally licensed content.

https://www.shutterstock.com/de/search/people-cooking?image_type=generated (https://www.shutterstock.com/de/search/people-cooking?image_type=generated)

https://www.shutterstock.com/de/image-generated/arabic-domestic-kitchen-people-cooking-traditional-2264280661 (https://www.shutterstock.com/de/image-generated/arabic-domestic-kitchen-people-cooking-traditional-2264280661)

30 000 ai generated people keyword images

https://www.shutterstock.com/de/search/people?image_type=generated (https://www.shutterstock.com/de/search/people?image_type=generated)

https://www.shutterstock.com/de/image-generated/close-photo-person-pink-hair-ross-2285217411 (https://www.shutterstock.com/de/image-generated/close-photo-person-pink-hair-ross-2285217411)

https://www.shutterstock.com/de/image-generated/close-photo-3-different-photos-same-2295188063 (https://www.shutterstock.com/de/image-generated/close-photo-3-different-photos-same-2295188063)

They also always show the prompt used

The "artist" is the Shutterstock generator.

But so far producers cannot upload ai content.

eta:

an image of Donald Duck

https://www.shutterstock.com/de/image-generated/donald-duck-white-3d-very-happy-2240528003 (https://www.shutterstock.com/de/image-generated/donald-duck-white-3d-very-happy-2240528003)

guess noone is checking these files for copyright problems

Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: kuriouskat on August 08, 2023, 03:52
But they take ai images that are generated by their own ai generator. Look through the collection, there is a lot of ai content that is labelled as ai generated.

I guess the difference is it was done on their own engine which is trained on legally licensed content.


Except for all the stolen stuff on Shutterstock, which is a bit of a fly in the 'legally licensed' ointment. Still, I believe they make a guarantee to their customers, so they are obviously happy to take that risk.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: cobalt on August 08, 2023, 09:17
I wonder if this is the grand plan. Not taking ai from contributors, but letting the customers prompt and create an ai collection for them.

Producer content then fill the data collection and the normal stock sales become the side show.

Some of those prompts are really well written, you can tell they come from art directors and media pros.

The customers brain basically becomes the prompting ai.

Or maybe add a prompt army from a low wage country.

Will be interesting to watch what they do.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: cascoly on August 08, 2023, 14:01
But they take ai images that are generated by their own ai generator. Look through the collection, there is a lot of ai content that is labelled as ai generated.

I guess the difference is it was done on their own engine which is trained on legally licensed content....

i had ai content accepted before the rule change

but when i asked if i could with images from their generator, they said 'no'.  (maybe you can't submit made with their gen but DL & modified)
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Uncle Pete on August 08, 2023, 15:26
see these two screenshots ⬇️

No reply even after many emails and 19 days ?? my account has not been activated even after proofs ?
i emailed them multiple times and with different E-mail address also. now they are not responding.

I think my account was deleted by Shutterstock on the first day without any valid reason. They are not responding, and it seems they cannot recover it. Do you consider this to be Shutterstock's fraud? What do you think?

what should i do now ?

Wait?

You've redacted the software you used from your screenshot, but if it's Midjourney, or other AI, then that's your problem.
that's not the problem,
they have deactivated my account due to copyright issue, that I have uploaded on adobe

I saw that and it sure looks unusual that they would close your account for uploading your own images. I would think that instead of telling you it was copyright infringement and as others have suggested, AI, then they should tell you that, not some vague claim against you personally.

Good Luck.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: dtemm12390 on August 10, 2023, 20:18
see these two screenshots ⬇️

No reply even after many emails and 19 days ?? my account has not been activated even after proofs ?
i emailed them multiple times and with different E-mail address also. now they are not responding.

I think my account was deleted by Shutterstock on the first day without any valid reason. They are not responding, and it seems they cannot recover it. Do you consider this to be Shutterstock's fraud? What do you think?

what should i do now ?

Wait?

You've redacted the software you used from your screenshot, but if it's Midjourney, or other AI, then that's your problem.
that's not the problem,
they have deactivated my account due to copyright issue, that I have uploaded on adobe

I saw that and it sure looks unusual that they would close your account for uploading your own images. I would think that instead of telling you it was copyright infringement and as others have suggested, AI, then they should tell you that, not some vague claim against you personally.

Good Luck.
there is nothing can i do now for it ?
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Doug Jensen on April 30, 2024, 15:57
I am happy to report I have now crossed the quarter million dollar earnings threshold at Shutterstock.
That's an average of $27.06 per download.
That's an average of $23.80 per video in my portfolio.
The earnings just keep rolling in.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Pacesetter on April 30, 2024, 16:37
I am happy to report I have now crossed the quarter million dollar earnings threshold at Shutterstock.
That's an average of $27.06 per download.
That's an average of $23.80 per video in my portfolio.
The earnings just keep rolling in.

Fantastic results though I see 227 would it be 250  to make quarter million?
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Doug Jensen on April 30, 2024, 16:42
Ha, ha! You're right. Oh well, I better use a calculator next time.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Faustvasea on April 30, 2024, 16:52
I am happy to report I have now crossed the quarter million dollar earnings threshold at Shutterstock.
That's an average of $27.06 per download.
That's an average of $23.80 per video in my portfolio.
The earnings just keep rolling in.

How many images you have in your Port?
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Doug Jensen on April 30, 2024, 16:57
9562 clips.  ($23.80 x 9562 = $227,575)
0 photos.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Wilm on April 30, 2024, 17:05
Let's see if you can still do it in 2024.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Doug Jensen on April 30, 2024, 17:08
Do what?  I have sales every day.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Wilm on April 30, 2024, 17:36
Do what?  I have sales every day.

Reaching the $250,000 - that's what I meant. Or will you manage the 828 statistically missing downloads within two or three months? I don't know how long you've been at it.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Doug Jensen on April 30, 2024, 17:55
Okay, I understand now.  No, I doubt I will hit $250K lifetime earnings this year at Shutterstock.  But in 2025 for sure.  Shutterstock is slipping lately so probably won't make another $23K in 2024.  Fortunately, Adobe is rising to take up the slack.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Pacesetter on April 30, 2024, 18:12
Okay, I understand now.  No, I doubt I will hit $250K lifetime earnings this year at Shutterstock.  But in 2025 for sure.  Shutterstock is slipping lately so probably won't make another $23K in 2024.  Fortunately, Adobe is rising to take up the slack.

Yes Adobe is doing really well. Is Adobe earnings surpassing Shutterstock earnings on a monthly basis for you now?
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Injustice for all on April 30, 2024, 18:14
like many,I know you from the days of the SS forum,excellent work,congratulations!  :)

I don't think anyone who starts producing videos and uploading them to SS today,will ever be able to achieve these results.

I seem to remember that until a few years ago you used to make over $30k in a year.

luckily there is Adobe,otherwise microstock would have no future!
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Doug Jensen on April 30, 2024, 20:13
Yes Adobe is doing really well. Is Adobe earnings surpassing Shutterstock earnings on a monthly basis for you now?

No, Adobe has not surpassed Shutterstock yet, but every month they come closer.  However, I have about 3x more clips at Shutterstock right now, so if you divide the earnings by the size of the portfolio then Adobe might be doing the best statistically.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Doug Jensen on April 30, 2024, 20:19
like many,I know you from the days of the SS forum,excellent work,congratulations!  :)

I don't think anyone who starts producing videos and uploading them to SS today,will ever be able to achieve these results.

I seem to remember that until a few years ago you used to make over $30k in a year.

luckily there is Adobe,otherwise microstock would have no future!

No, I'm not making $30K per year at Shutterstock, but the earnings keep rolling in month after month with virtually no effort on my part. And quite a few newer clips that I've uploaded are making good money now.  I have had a pretty busy last couple of years with regular work and have not had the time to upload very many new clips.  I'm still out shooting regularly because I enjoy it, but doing the metadata is another story.  I've got a backlog of about 5000 4K clips that are all edited and graded.  Will I ever find time to do the metadata and get them earning some money for me?  I don't know.  Too busy with other work to even think about it right now.  Metadata is the bane of my existence.   It takes time to do it well, and if you don't take that time, then why upload at all? Without good metadata it is just a waste of time.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Faustvasea on May 01, 2024, 03:31
like many,I know you from the days of the SS forum,excellent work,congratulations!  :)

I don't think anyone who starts producing videos and uploading them to SS today,will ever be able to achieve these results.

I seem to remember that until a few years ago you used to make over $30k in a year.

luckily there is Adobe,otherwise microstock would have no future!

No, I'm not making $30K per year at Shutterstock, but the earnings keep rolling in month after month with virtually no effort on my part. And quite a few newer clips that I've uploaded are making good money now.  I have had a pretty busy last couple of years with regular work and have not had the time to upload very many new clips.  I'm still out shooting regularly because I enjoy it, but doing the metadata is another story.  I've got a backlog of about 5000 4K clips that are all edited and graded.  Will I ever find time to do the metadata and get them earning some money for me?  I don't know.  Too busy with other work to even think about it right now.  Metadata is the bane of my existence.   It takes time to do it well, and if you don't take that time, then why upload at all? Without good metadata it is just a waste of time.



Are you using any app for your metadata, if you don’t mind me asking.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Injustice for all on May 01, 2024, 03:43
like many,I know you from the days of the SS forum,excellent work,congratulations!  :)

I don't think anyone who starts producing videos and uploading them to SS today,will ever be able to achieve these results.

I seem to remember that until a few years ago you used to make over $30k in a year.

luckily there is Adobe,otherwise microstock would have no future!

No, I'm not making $30K per year at Shutterstock, but the earnings keep rolling in month after month with virtually no effort on my part. And quite a few newer clips that I've uploaded are making good money now.  I have had a pretty busy last couple of years with regular work and have not had the time to upload very many new clips.  I'm still out shooting regularly because I enjoy it, but doing the metadata is another story.  I've got a backlog of about 5000 4K clips that are all edited and graded.  Will I ever find time to do the metadata and get them earning some money for me?  I don't know.  Too busy with other work to even think about it right now.  Metadata is the bane of my existence.   It takes time to do it well, and if you don't take that time, then why upload at all? Without good metadata it is just a waste of time.

ok,I thought I remembered a post on the old shutterstock forum,where you showed that for the first time you had reached $30K in a year,but if you say no then I remember wrong,maybe it was someone else.

however you have achieved incredible results,but well deserved,the work you did was extraordinary.

Yes i agree,metadata is as important as the content itself,perhaps even more important in some cases.

so in proportion you are earning more on Adobe,given that on SS you have 3 times more videos,interesting,this shows that even with videos Adobe has now surpassed even Shutterstock.



Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Pacesetter on May 01, 2024, 04:33
like many,I know you from the days of the SS forum,excellent work,congratulations!  :)

I don't think anyone who starts producing videos and uploading them to SS today,will ever be able to achieve these results.

I seem to remember that until a few years ago you used to make over $30k in a year.

luckily there is Adobe,otherwise microstock would have no future!

No, I'm not making $30K per year at Shutterstock, but the earnings keep rolling in month after month with virtually no effort on my part. And quite a few newer clips that I've uploaded are making good money now.  I have had a pretty busy last couple of years with regular work and have not had the time to upload very many new clips.  I'm still out shooting regularly because I enjoy it, but doing the metadata is another story.  I've got a backlog of about 5000 4K clips that are all edited and graded.  Will I ever find time to do the metadata and get them earning some money for me?  I don't know.  Too busy with other work to even think about it right now.  Metadata is the bane of my existence.   It takes time to do it well, and if you don't take that time, then why upload at all? Without good metadata it is just a waste of time.

ok,I thought I remembered a post on the old shutterstock forum,where you showed that for the first time you had reached $30K in a year,but if you say no then I remember wrong,maybe it was someone else.

however you have achieved incredible results,but well deserved,the work you did was extraordinary.

Yes i agree,metadata is as important as the content itself,perhaps even more important in some cases.

so in proportion you are earning more on Adobe,given that on SS you have 3 times more videos,interesting,this shows that even with videos Adobe has now surpassed even Shutterstock.

You probably remember correctly as I recall that too. If I'm not mistaken, I think Doug's response above refers to more recent and current yearly earnings where he no longer makes 30k a year on Shutterstock like he use to.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Doug Jensen on May 01, 2024, 07:22
If I'm not mistaken, I think Doug's response above refers to more recent and current yearly earnings where he no longer makes 30k a year on Shutterstock like he use to.

Yes, that is correct.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Doug Jensen on May 01, 2024, 07:28
Are you using any app for your metadata, if you don’t mind me asking.

No, I am not aware of any app that will ease the burden of metadata.  It is something you have to do manually if you want good results.  Like I said before, without great metadata you're just wasting your time, no matter how good your clips are.

I do, however, have a custom Apple Numbers spreadsheet that stores all my metadata and significantly makes the submission process faster and easier. It uses auto-fill from similar clips, counts the characters in my description and alerts me if I go over the limit; shows the number of keywords and alerts me if I have too many or not enough; segregates editorial clips; etc.   It helps, but still hate doing metadata.

I can average 12 clips per hour doing the ingest, editing, color grading, export, and all metadata.  5 minutes per clip.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: synthetick on May 01, 2024, 07:29
I have made a similar lifetime amount on SS but sadly these days it is a very poor earner. However I did have a very good sales day a week ago when I got several EL's and cart sales on the same day! It (briefly) felt like the old days!
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Doug Jensen on May 01, 2024, 07:36
It (briefly) felt like the old days!

Yes, I love days like that!  I just checked my account and found that I had a $180 download late last night after I'd gone to bed. A great way to wrap up April in the last hour of the month.

Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Faustvasea on May 01, 2024, 07:54
Are you using any app for your metadata, if you don’t mind me asking.

No, I am not aware of any app that will ease the burden of metadata.  It is something you have to do manually if you want good results.  Like I said before, without great metadata you're just wasting your time, no matter how good your clips are.

I do, however, have a custom Apple Numbers spreadsheet that stores all my metadata and significantly makes the submission process faster and easier. It uses auto-fill from similar clips, counts the characters in my description and alerts me if I go over the limit; shows the number of keywords and alerts me if I have too many or not enough; segregates editorial clips; etc.   It helps, but still hate doing metadata.

I can average 12 clips per hour doing the ingest, editing, color grading, export, and all metadata.  5 minutes per clip.

Thanks, I thoughts you use Ai tags or description using apps like Xpiks or other similar apps.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Doug Jensen on May 01, 2024, 08:06
Thanks, I thoughts you use Ai tags or description using apps like Xpiks or other similar apps.

AI is crap for stock.  In my experience, it can't tell the difference between a smokestack and a rocket; between a goldfish and a salamnder; between an airplane and a cross.  I could go on an on, but anyone who relies on AI is leaving money on the table. If buyers cannot find your images, then they cannot buy them. Simple as that.

BTW, we don't get paid for images or clips because that is the fun stuff most people would shoot for free. We get paid for the boring drudgery work of creating metadata. More than anything else, that's what separates the the successful from unsuccessful.

If anyone honestly thinks AI can replace a human for creating effective metadata, I will challenge that person to show me some examples. 
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Doug Jensen on May 01, 2024, 09:21
And May is off to a good start too, with a $104 sale this morning.   It does feel like the old days.

Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Faustvasea on May 01, 2024, 12:35
Thanks, I thoughts you use Ai tags or description using apps like Xpiks or other similar apps.

AI is crap for stock.  In my experience, it can't tell the difference between a smokestack and a rocket; between a goldfish and a salamnder; between an airplane and a cross.  I could go on an on, but anyone who relies on AI is leaving money on the table. If buyers cannot find your images, then they cannot buy them. Simple as that.

BTW, we don't get paid for images or clips because that is the fun stuff most people would shoot for free. We get paid for the boring drudgery work of creating metadata. More than anything else, that's what separates the the successful from unsuccessful.

If anyone honestly thinks AI can replace a human for creating effective metadata, I will challenge that person to show me some examples.

Thanks for heads up, I have started stock last year, and I am using Ai description and Keywords, there aren't big money in stock, so don't want to sink too much time. Any advice for a newbie like me?
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: cascoly on May 01, 2024, 15:19
I am happy to report I have now crossed the quarter million dollar earnings threshold at Shutterstock.
That's an average of $27.06 per download.
That's an average of $23.80 per video in my portfolio.
The earnings just keep rolling in.

How many images you have in your Port?

hard to accept their questionable claim as a newbie without a portfolio, so w/o a link doesn't matter what numbers they post

and remember this is the same guy who last year they were making $348/hr!

and besides, i've made $666,000 so far with my NFT w more sales every day
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Pacesetter on May 01, 2024, 15:28
I am happy to report I have now crossed the quarter million dollar earnings threshold at Shutterstock.
That's an average of $27.06 per download.
That's an average of $23.80 per video in my portfolio.
The earnings just keep rolling in.

How many images you have in your Port?

hard to accept their questionable claim as a newbie without a portfolio, so w/o a link doesn't matter what numbers they post

and besides, i've made $666,000 so far with my NFT w more sales very day

Doug has been around for years and has over 9000 videos. Claims are legit. Port is easy to find with a search.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Doug Jensen on May 01, 2024, 16:00
and remember this is the same guy who last year they were making $348/hr!

That was last year.  Now it is higher than $348/hour because the 9000+ clips in my portfolio have earned even more now.  If you ask nicely, I could run the numbers again if you want an update.  My numbers are completely legit, and whether you want to believe them or not doesn't change that fact.

and besides, i've made $666,000 so far with my NFT w more sales every day

Excellent. Keep up the great work.  Stock is a big pie with plenty of slices for everyone.
What is your hourly wage so far on your earnings?
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Doug Jensen on May 01, 2024, 16:00
May is off to an even better start.  Two sales today for $104 each plus another for $10.  A nice way to start the month.

Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Doug Jensen on May 01, 2024, 16:02
Deleted. Accidently posted twice.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Doug Jensen on May 01, 2024, 16:06
Thanks for heads up, I have started stock last year, and I am using Ai description and Keywords, there aren't big money in stock, so don't want to sink too much time. Any advice for a newbie like me?

Actually, there is good money in stock video. Maybe not as much as a few years ago, but still plenty profitable for the amount of time I invest into it.  The best advice I can give you is to do your own metadata.  You have to put in the work if you want the rewards. There are no shortcuts.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Faustvasea on May 01, 2024, 16:12
Thanks for heads up, I have started stock last year, and I am using Ai description and Keywords, there aren't big money in stock, so don't want to sink too much time. Any advice for a newbie like me?

Actually, there is good money in stock. Maybe not as much as a few years ago, but still plenty profitable for the amount of time I invest into it.  The best advice I can give you is to do your own metadata.  You have to put in the work if you want the rewards. There are no shortcuts.

Thanks a lot, really appreciate your help. I've seen your portfolio, and I think even If I would have good metadata, I won't be make big money, your videos are way superior than mine.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Doug Jensen on May 01, 2024, 18:40
Thanks a lot, really appreciate your help. I've seen your portfolio, and I think even If I would have good metadata, I won't be make big money, your videos are way superior than mine.

And other people's videos are way superior to mine.  It makes no difference. :-)

You cannot predict what customers are looking for.  If you have subject matter that is in demand; if you shoot, edit, and grade it competently; and if you have excellent metadata, you will succeed.  That is the recipe for success.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: MPfoto71 on May 01, 2024, 18:49
Congratulations on the great triple-digit sales!

I only had one video sale today, which is more in line with the thread title ;-)
(see picture)
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Pacesetter on May 01, 2024, 19:35
I had quite a few 3-digit sales last year but none so far this year. Image below is the biggest single sale I had in September last year and in fact biggest single sale I've ever had on a video.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Artist on May 01, 2024, 20:27
I had quite a few 3-digit sales last year but none so far this year. Image below is the biggest single sale I had in September last year and in fact biggest single sale I've ever had on a video.

Wow.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Doug Jensen on May 01, 2024, 20:45
I had quite a few 3-digit sales last year but none so far this year. Image below is the biggest single sale I had in September last year and in fact biggest single sale I've ever had on a video.

Fantastic!  I never had a single sale that big.  I think around $500 was my best, so yours is really impressive.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Faustvasea on May 02, 2024, 05:10
Thanks a lot, really appreciate your help. I've seen your portfolio, and I think even If I would have good metadata, I won't be make big money, your videos are way superior than mine.

And other people's videos are way superior to mine.  It makes no difference. :-)

You cannot predict what customers are looking for.  If you have subject matter that is in demand; if you shoot, edit, and grade it competently; and if you have excellent metadata, you will succeed.  That is the recipe for success.

I will have to focus more on quality and metadata. I only sold a video for the first time on pond5. But I have very small port of 800 clips. Obviously I won’t compete with people that has 10k+, and being longer on the market.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Doug Jensen on May 02, 2024, 08:03
ut I have very small port of 800 clips. Obviously I won’t compete with people that has 10k+, and being longer on the market.

The size of another contributor's account does not give them an advantage.  Every clip has to stand on its own merits.  In other words, if I have 10,000 clips and you have 800, but we both have two clips that are very similar, mine does not have an advantage just because my portfolio is bigger than yours.  There is no reason not to submit good content that meets the needs of buyers.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Roscoe on May 02, 2024, 11:57
ut I have very small port of 800 clips. Obviously I won’t compete with people that has 10k+, and being longer on the market.

The size of another contributor's account does not give them an advantage.  Every clip has to stand on its own merits.  In other words, if I have 10,000 clips and you have 800, but we both have two clips that are very similar, mine does not have an advantage just because my portfolio is bigger than yours.  There is no reason not to submit good content that meets the needs of buyers.

But if yours is already longer on the market, and sold quite a few times (due to lower competition at that time) then the newer one will generally end up lower in the rankings, get less views, and yours will have the advantage. Right? (Of course, all depending on competition and saturation, as the algorithm mixes new content with established content. Niche markets are easier to break into than highly saturated area's of the market)
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Doug Jensen on May 02, 2024, 13:02
But if yours is already longer on the market, and sold quite a few times (due to lower competition at that time) then the newer one will generally end up lower in the rankings, get less views, and yours will have the advantage. Right? (Of course, all depending on competition and saturation, as the algorithm mixes new content with established content. Niche markets are easier to break into than highly saturated area's of the market)

But now you are talking about something entirely different.  Yes, an older clip that has been successful and sold multiple times does have an advantage. But that has nothing to do with the overall size of the contributor's portfolio or how long the contributor has been a contributor.  That is the myth I was trying to dispel.  Please read my earlier post again, and I hope you can understand the difference.

But to address the point you are making, don't assume that the best-selling clip last year of a toddler eating spaghetti is going to continue to dominate year after year.  The algorithms are constantly trying to promote newer clips to keep the content fresh on the site.  In my own case, many of my clips that used to sell almost every day hardly ever sell at all anymore. Why is that?  Well, it is because other similar clips have probably pushed them off their pedestal. That's what competition does. And it has nothing to do with the size of the contributor's portfolio.  My point is that it is never to late to get your feet wet.  If you sit on the sidelines and say "it's too late", then you are guaranteed of 100% failure.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Wilm on May 02, 2024, 15:22
But if yours is already longer on the market, and sold quite a few times (due to lower competition at that time) then the newer one will generally end up lower in the rankings, get less views, and yours will have the advantage. Right? (Of course, all depending on competition and saturation, as the algorithm mixes new content with established content. Niche markets are easier to break into than highly saturated area's of the market)

But now you are talking about something entirely different.  Yes, an older clip that has been successful and sold multiple times does have an advantage. But that has nothing to do with the overall size of the contributor's portfolio or how long the contributor has been a contributor.  That is the myth I was trying to dispel.  Please read my earlier post again, and I hope you can understand the difference.

But to address the point you are making, don't assume that the best-selling clip last year of a toddler eating spaghetti is going to continue to dominate year after year.  The algorithms are constantly trying to promote newer clips to keep the content fresh on the site.  In my own case, many of my clips that used to sell almost every day hardly ever sell at all anymore. Why is that?  Well, it is because other similar clips have probably pushed them off their pedestal. That's what competition does. And it has nothing to do with the size of the contributor's portfolio.  My point is that it is never to late to get your feet wet.  If you sit on the sidelines and say "it's too late", then you are guaranteed of 100% failure.

I have a similar view. The size of a portfolio is of course an important factor from a purely mathematical point of view.

Nevertheless, there have been and still are indications that an extremely fast and extensively growing portfolio does not automatically guarantee that the download figures and revenues will grow in parallel.

Of course, I don't know how the algorithms work. So I can only make assumptions. But I am firmly convinced that an extreme expansion of the portfolio with the pure goal of mass can even be very harmful for the findability of the images. I believe that a small portfolio with well-ranked images can be damaged if countless poor-quality images are added to it. But once again: I can't prove that.

Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Uncle Pete on May 02, 2024, 15:34

 I've got a backlog of about 5000 4K clips that are all edited and graded.  Will I ever find time to do the metadata and get them earning some money for me?  I don't know.  Too busy with other work to even think about it right now.  Metadata is the bane of my existence.   It takes time to do it well, and if you don't take that time, then why upload at all? Without good metadata it is just a waste of time.

Here you go, Wirestock, my link. Upload and let them do the work, the data and distribution to all the agencies. You just keep working on what keeps you busy and WS makes you more money. 5000 files should make you far more, on all the agencies, than it does sitting on your hard drive?

https://wirestock.io?ref=peter.klinger


ut I have very small port of 800 clips. Obviously I won’t compete with people that has 10k+, and being longer on the market.

The size of another contributor's account does not give them an advantage.  Every clip has to stand on its own merits.  In other words, if I have 10,000 clips and you have 800, but we both have two clips that are very similar, mine does not have an advantage just because my portfolio is bigger than yours.  There is no reason not to submit good content that meets the needs of buyers.

Good Point!
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Doug Jensen on May 02, 2024, 15:45
Here you go, Wirestock, my link. Upload and let them do the work, the data and distribution to all the agencies. You just keep working on what keeps you busy and WS makes you more money. 5000 files should make you far more, on all the agencies, than it does sitting on your hard drive?

It looks like you are giving up 50% of your commissions.  Is that correct?  If so, what do you get for giving up half your income in perpetuity?

Fifty (50%) percent of the month’s total revenue generated and actually paid to Wirestock for subscriptions to the Wirestock Marketplace (“Marketplace Subscription Revenue”) will be paid to contributors of Marketplace Content (the “Total Contributor Share”). You agree and understand that Wirestock will keep the remaining fifty (50%) percent of each month’s Marketplace Subscription Revenue. You agree and understand that the monthly amount you earn and the method by which Wirestock determines your earnings each month from the month’s Total Contributor Share will be determined by Wirestock, in its sole discretion, and Wirestock may change how it calculates your compensation from month to month, without advance notice to you. You agree and understand that the specific method by which Wirestock determines, in its sole discretion, how to compensate you from the month’s Total Contributor Share will be published in Wirestock’s FAQs, found here, and the FAQ related to Marketplace compensation is hereby incorporated by reference into these terms.


Who does the metadata, you or them?  If they do it, how good are they?  If you do it, why would you cut them in on your income when you have done all the work?
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Uncle Pete on May 02, 2024, 15:46

I have a similar view. The size of a portfolio is of course an important factor from a purely mathematical point of view.

Nevertheless, there have been and still are indications that an extremely fast and extensively growing portfolio does not automatically guarantee that the download figures and revenues will grow in parallel.

Of course, I don't know how the algorithms work. So I can only make assumptions. But I am firmly convinced that an extreme expansion of the portfolio with the pure goal of mass can even be very harmful for the findability of the images. I believe that a small portfolio with well-ranked images can be damaged if countless poor-quality images are added to it. But once again: I can't prove that.

With a similar point, people who say images need to age, to make better sales, are neglecting the math and fact, that you only know what sells, after the fact. So of course, after years, you will see what has sold more, than in weeks or months. The time is the difference, not because images will sell better, but because they HAVE sold better.

If we only know whether more images, made more sales, because there are more, or because the popularity of some images, which is hard to predict, is only because the cream rises to the top. I mean in this way. 100 great images and that's it, or 100 great images and 900 maybe, good enough images. If we know what a "great Image" is, then the only advantage would be, from the 900 others, we might have misjudged some, and they will make more total sales, than the just 100 images.  :)

Who here knows that this great image they just made is going to be a success, and has never been wrong? Or who here, has uploaded something, not so special, that probably wasn't going to work out, but it took off and unexpectedly sold.  Raise Your Hand?  ;D

Back to the great 100 theory. The other 900 may not be significant, but there could be a sleeper in there, and there could be a dud or two in the best 100.

That's the only reason I'd say more is better. Pure math. Otherwise, "Nevertheless, there have been and still are indications that an extremely fast and extensively growing portfolio does not automatically guarantee that the download figures and revenues will grow in parallel."
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Uncle Pete on May 02, 2024, 15:50
Here you go, Wirestock, my link. Upload and let them do the work, the data and distribution to all the agencies. You just keep working on what keeps you busy and WS makes you more money. 5000 files should make you far more, on all the agencies, than it does sitting on your hard drive?

It looks like you are giving up 50% of your commissions.  Is that correct?  If so, what do you get for giving up half your income in perpetuity?

Fifty (50%) percent of the month’s total revenue generated and actually paid to Wirestock for subscriptions to the Wirestock Marketplace (“Marketplace Subscription Revenue”) will be paid to contributors of Marketplace Content (the “Total Contributor Share”). You agree and understand that Wirestock will keep the remaining fifty (50%) percent of each month’s Marketplace Subscription Revenue. You agree and understand that the monthly amount you earn and the method by which Wirestock determines your earnings each month from the month’s Total Contributor Share will be determined by Wirestock, in its sole discretion, and Wirestock may change how it calculates your compensation from month to month, without advance notice to you. You agree and understand that the specific method by which Wirestock determines, in its sole discretion, how to compensate you from the month’s Total Contributor Share will be published in Wirestock’s FAQs, found here, and the FAQ related to Marketplace compensation is hereby incorporated by reference into these terms.


Who does the metadata, you or them?

15% they do the metadata they do the uploads, no minimum cash outs by agency, as soon as you reach $30 you get paid, every month. Yes, you are giving them 15% to do the metadata and upload, forever, for all future sales. But 85% of something, is far more than 100% of nothing?  ;)

You quoted Marketplace which has nothing at all to do with the distribution. You took something irrelevant and out of context.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Doug Jensen on May 02, 2024, 15:51
Who here knows that this great image they just made is going to be a success, and has never been wrong? Or who here, has uploaded something, not so special, that probably wasn't going to work out, but it took off and unexpectedly sold.  Raise Your Hand?  ;D

I'll raise my hand.  That is 100% correct.  You cannot predict which images will be popular, so uploading a lot of potential winners is the best approach. Let the marketplace sort out the winners and losers.  But each of those image you submit must be well-shot, well-graded, and have good metadata to even have a sporting chance of success.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Doug Jensen on May 02, 2024, 15:55
You quoted Marketplace which has nothing at all to do with the distribution. You took something irrelevant and out of context.

That's why I asked.  They have a terrible website so, don't blame me for not understanding.  Where do they talk about metadata?

As for giving up 15%.  Nope.  Not gonna do it unless they can show me how good they are at metadata. That is the key to success.  Adobe offered to do metadate for me a few years ago and it was a joke.  I'd have to see some examples before committing.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Uncle Pete on May 02, 2024, 16:06
You quoted Marketplace which has nothing at all to do with the distribution. You took something irrelevant and out of context.

That's why I asked.  They have a terrible website so, don't blame me for not understanding.  Where do they talk about metadata?

As for giving up 15%.  Nope.  Not gonna do it unless they can show me how good they are at metadata. That is the key to success.  Adobe offered to do metadate for me a few years ago and it was a joke.  I'd have to see some examples before committing.

They (Wirestock) went from terrible to, allowing us to add our own, to not so really good, and I don't know if they read ours anymore? You can be the best judge by looking at some agencies and files that are submitted by WireStock, because there's another down side. The name on the agencies is theirs, if that matters.

I wouldn't claim their metadata is above, basic, obvious, descriptions. I can give them a break, in some ways, because they don't know the details, but sometimes that's what sells a license.

I was only half serious, in saying, if you have 5,000 files, and you're too busy, a place like Wirestock is the answer. It still comes down to, give them 15%, let them do the work and make something, vs make nothing. I don't shoot enough to make it worth my while, while you appear to have a backlog of good work. Some people like them, many more people, don't feel there's a value in a paid account, and giving WS 15%. They do their own.

So the key to this is, nothing vs something, not about quality or best way to make money. Just a quick and easy way to profit, from your backlog.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Wilm on May 02, 2024, 16:15

I have a similar view. The size of a portfolio is of course an important factor from a purely mathematical point of view.

Nevertheless, there have been and still are indications that an extremely fast and extensively growing portfolio does not automatically guarantee that the download figures and revenues will grow in parallel.

Of course, I don't know how the algorithms work. So I can only make assumptions. But I am firmly convinced that an extreme expansion of the portfolio with the pure goal of mass can even be very harmful for the findability of the images. I believe that a small portfolio with well-ranked images can be damaged if countless poor-quality images are added to it. But once again: I can't prove that.

With a similar point, people who say images need to age, to make better sales, are neglecting the math and fact, that you only know what sells, after the fact. So of course, after years, you will see what has sold more, than in weeks or months. The time is the difference, not because images will sell better, but because they HAVE sold better.

If we only know whether more images, made more sales, because there are more, or because the popularity of some images, which is hard to predict, is only because the cream rises to the top. I mean in this way. 100 great images and that's it, or 100 great images and 900 maybe, good enough images. If we know what a "great Image" is, then the only advantage would be, from the 900 others, we might have misjudged some, and they will make more total sales, than the just 100 images.  :)

Who here knows that this great image they just made is going to be a success, and has never been wrong? Or who here, has uploaded something, not so special, that probably wasn't going to work out, but it took off and unexpectedly sold.  Raise Your Hand?  ;D

Back to the great 100 theory. The other 900 may not be significant, but there could be a sleeper in there, and there could be a dud or two in the best 100.

That's the only reason I'd say more is better. Pure math. Otherwise, "Nevertheless, there have been and still are indications that an extremely fast and extensively growing portfolio does not automatically guarantee that the download figures and revenues will grow in parallel."

900 additional "maybe good pictures" is not what I generally mean, Pete. I have that too. I upload images that I could imagine have what it takes to sell. But I don't upload a single image that I'm absolutely sure is so bad or replaceable that it won't sell. And I'm wrong often enough.

There are so many images that everyone who uploads them knows or should know from the outset that they are "not good enough" compared to what is already there.

Nevertheless, many contributors hope that these images might sell after all, even though they secretly know or at least suspect that this will not happen, and upload masses of them. But the opposite is probably the case: these images may harm the overall ranking of the portfolio.

Doug sums it up well: "But each of those image you submit must be well-shot, well-graded, and have good metadata to even have a sporting chance of success."

This - at least in my opinion - is not sufficiently taken into account by many contributors.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Doug Jensen on May 02, 2024, 16:15
Just a quick and easy way to profit, from your backlog.

But I won't profit at all if the metadata is crap.  85% of nothing is the same as 100% of nothing.  Beleive me, I could do some half-assed metadata myself and FTP the clips myself and not give up any percentage. But why waste my time?

If someone could demonstrate to me they could do excellent metadata I'd gladly give up 25%.  But they can't.  It takes effort to describe the content correctly and choose the right keywords and exclude unhelpful keywords -- but they won't make the investment in time and attention.  Metadata is king!!  Most people totally underestimate it's importance.  9 times out of 10 people have asked me to look at their portfolio because they aren't getting sales, it turns out their metadata is crap.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Doug Jensen on May 02, 2024, 16:22
Uncle Pete, can you post a link to the page on Wirestock where they talk about generating metadata?  I can't find it.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Wilm on May 02, 2024, 16:32
Pete, I'm looking at Alexandre Rotenberg's figures.

He has 3,000 files online at Wirestock. In March that earned him $7, in February $10, in January $4. In December and November 2023 it was $5 each.

Of course, I can't automatically transfer from Alexandre to other contributors. But his numbers suggest to me that Wirestock is not a good model.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Brasilnut on May 02, 2024, 16:51
Pete, I'm looking at Alexandre Rotenberg's figures.

He has 3,000 files online at Wirestock. In March that earned him $7, in February $10, in January $4. In December and November 2023 it was $5 each.

Of course, I can't automatically transfer from Alexandre to other contributors. But his numbers suggest to me that Wirestock is not a good model.

I dumped them my leftovers to be honest and Arcangel rejects (that were not similar to those accepted). Def not the most of commercial content so I'll take anything I can get with them :D Was basically just dump and let them keyword and forget about them...that is when they had that free option.

Neverthless, just checked and from those 3,000 I've earned some $600 over 5 years + $144 for the latest custom project on storytelling.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Roscoe on May 03, 2024, 01:11
But if yours is already longer on the market, and sold quite a few times (due to lower competition at that time) then the newer one will generally end up lower in the rankings, get less views, and yours will have the advantage. Right? (Of course, all depending on competition and saturation, as the algorithm mixes new content with established content. Niche markets are easier to break into than highly saturated area's of the market)

But now you are talking about something entirely different.  Yes, an older clip that has been successful and sold multiple times does have an advantage. But that has nothing to do with the overall size of the contributor's portfolio or how long the contributor has been a contributor.  That is the myth I was trying to dispel.  Please read my earlier post again, and I hope you can understand the difference.

But to address the point you are making, don't assume that the best-selling clip last year of a toddler eating spaghetti is going to continue to dominate year after year.  The algorithms are constantly trying to promote newer clips to keep the content fresh on the site.  In my own case, many of my clips that used to sell almost every day hardly ever sell at all anymore. Why is that?  Well, it is because other similar clips have probably pushed them off their pedestal. That's what competition does. And it has nothing to do with the size of the contributor's portfolio.  My point is that it is never to late to get your feet wet.  If you sit on the sidelines and say "it's too late", then you are guaranteed of 100% failure.

I must have been misunderstood or not have made myself fully clear. I'm with you regarding the size of a portfolio not influencing individual asset ranking. I don't believe that purely the number of assets you have influences the individual ranking of those assets. I mentioned the advantage an older asset can have because @Faustvasea also mentioned competing against well established assets, and up to a certain point he's right about that. And yes, new assets are mixed up in the search results of a customer, so if the new one matches the quality and content the customer is looking for, it will get sold and will keep on getting views to generate more sales. Until it is outcompeted again. Of course, competition is still increasing, and I have the feeling (no hard claim) that libraries are growing faster than customer demand which means it gets more difficult to break into certain niches. So I understand why some contributors start making weird assumptions about rankings.

I think we're on the same page, but nobody really knows how the algorithms work. The only agency I know of giving some transparency about their algorithm was Indivstock, and they are very small and irrelevant. Yet they have a rather complex algorithm in place with a lot of bonus or punishment factors for content ranking. Portfolio size was not of any influence, but popularity in general was. (data from 2022)

+ 3.00% Artist bonus in general as well as keywords and titles of images predominantly without "spam" keywording, also title.
+ 2.00% Artist bonus in general as well as portfolio mostly popular.
+ 2.00% Artist bonus in general as well as portfolio mostly "outstanding".

Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Roscoe on May 03, 2024, 01:35
Just a quick and easy way to profit, from your backlog.

But I won't profit at all if the metadata is crap.  85% of nothing is the same as 100% of nothing.  Beleive me, I could do some half-assed metadata myself and FTP the clips myself and not give up any percentage. But why waste my time?

If someone could demonstrate to me they could do excellent metadata I'd gladly give up 25%.  But they can't.  It takes effort to describe the content correctly and choose the right keywords and exclude unhelpful keywords -- but they won't make the investment in time and attention.  Metadata is king!!  Most people totally underestimate it's importance.  9 times out of 10 people have asked me to look at their portfolio because they aren't getting sales, it turns out their metadata is crap.

I would be very careful with Wirestock. You also will need to take a monthly subscription in order to get your content distributed to agencies. $14.99 for 200 submissions per month. On top of the 15% commission they take.

I tested them when it was still free, except for the 15% commission, and the keywording done by them was below par. That said, content uploaded through Wirestock gets sold on the agencies.

I got increasingly more dissatisfied with them, as they just do what they like with your content without giving much transparency or control over it. They onboard new agencies as they like, and some of them are agencies you might not want to be affiliated with (bottom of the barrel stuff). Back then, their site was also full of bugs which took forever to fix. In the end, the monthly subscription killed it for me, and now I just take the money from what I uploaded back then.

I would only use them for content you don't really care about, and never plan to upload. So if you have a few thousands of useful clips that are sitting there and you don't plan to upload it you might give it a try. In that case, I would contact them directly, and try to work out a deal. 200 assets/month upload limit is ridiculous and will take you forever.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Faustvasea on May 03, 2024, 10:36
But if yours is already longer on the market, and sold quite a few times (due to lower competition at that time) then the newer one will generally end up lower in the rankings, get less views, and yours will have the advantage. Right? (Of course, all depending on competition and saturation, as the algorithm mixes new content with established content. Niche markets are easier to break into than highly saturated area's of the market)

But now you are talking about something entirely different.  Yes, an older clip that has been successful and sold multiple times does have an advantage. But that has nothing to do with the overall size of the contributor's portfolio or how long the contributor has been a contributor.  That is the myth I was trying to dispel.  Please read my earlier post again, and I hope you can understand the difference.

But to address the point you are making, don't assume that the best-selling clip last year of a toddler eating spaghetti is going to continue to dominate year after year.  The algorithms are constantly trying to promote newer clips to keep the content fresh on the site.  In my own case, many of my clips that used to sell almost every day hardly ever sell at all anymore. Why is that?  Well, it is because other similar clips have probably pushed them off their pedestal. That's what competition does. And it has nothing to do with the size of the contributor's portfolio.  My point is that it is never to late to get your feet wet.  If you sit on the sidelines and say "it's too late", then you are guaranteed of 100% failure.

I must have been misunderstood or not have made myself fully clear. I'm with you regarding the size of a portfolio not influencing individual asset ranking. I don't believe that purely the number of assets you have influences the individual ranking of those assets. I mentioned the advantage an older asset can have because @Faustvasea also mentioned competing against well established assets, and up to a certain point he's right about that. And yes, new assets are mixed up in the search results of a customer, so if the new one matches the quality and content the customer is looking for, it will get sold and will keep on getting views to generate more sales. Until it is outcompeted again. Of course, competition is still increasing, and I have the feeling (no hard claim) that libraries are growing faster than customer demand which means it gets more difficult to break into certain niches. So I understand why some contributors start making weird assumptions about rankings.

I think we're on the same page, but nobody really knows how the algorithms work. The only agency I know of giving some transparency about their algorithm was Indivstock, and they are very small and irrelevant. Yet they have a rather complex algorithm in place with a lot of bonus or punishment factors for content ranking. Portfolio size was not of any influence, but popularity in general was. (data from 2022)

+ 3.00% Artist bonus in general as well as keywords and titles of images predominantly without "spam" keywording, also title.
+ 2.00% Artist bonus in general as well as portfolio mostly popular.
+ 2.00% Artist bonus in general as well as portfolio mostly "outstanding".

That's what I was trying to say, portfolio size and the time being on the platform really matters. I think is the same case with each platform , instagram, YouTube . I would personally do the same, I will promote the old contributors and let the new one struggle or provide something really unique.

At the moment I only contribute videos to AS and P5, but as I said, I am certain sure that the new contributors have less chance to make same amount of money as the old contributors.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Doug Jensen on May 03, 2024, 11:58
I am certain sure that the new contributors have less chance to make same amount of money as the old contributors.

I can't prove it, but I strongly disagree with that statement.  Yes, someone with a larger portfolio may earn more total dollars -- because they have more clips that can earn.  And someone who already has a good stable of high-earning clips will probably continue to make more money from those clips than someone just getting started.  But I firmly believe that if I upload a clip today, and a newbie uploads a nearly identical clip today, and we both have the same excellent metadata, then we are on a level playing field for those clips.  In other words, portfolio size, longevity, past earnings, etc. will not help my new clips earn more than the same clips from someone else.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Doug Jensen on May 03, 2024, 12:03
I would be very careful with Wirestock.

I wouldn't get into bed with them or any of the other similar services, which I will not name.
Just look at their website and notice the lack of information they provide to potential contributors.  Their "service" is clearly aimed at a certain demographic who doesn't really want to do the hard work of running a stock footage business or be bothered with the details.  If someone has the attitude, "hey, why not send them some stuff and if it makes a couple of bucks, that's a couple of bucks I wouldn't have had otherwise."    Fine.  But that is a lazy way to try to make money from the content you have created.

And then, when their earnings amount to practically nothing, they will announce "See, there's no money in stock anymore. I missed the boat".  But they never actually did the work or put in the effort that is required to become a successful contributor.  They took the easy way and it didn't pay off.  What a surprise!
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Roscoe on May 04, 2024, 01:48
I would be very careful with Wirestock.

I wouldn't get into bed with them or any of the other similar services, which I will not name.
Just look at their website and notice the lack of information they provide to potential contributors.  Their "service" is clearly aimed at a certain demographic who doesn't really want to do the hard work of running a stock footage business or be bothered with the details.  If someone has the attitude, "hey, why not send them some stuff and if it makes a couple of bucks, that's a couple of bucks I wouldn't have had otherwise."    Fine.  But that is a lazy way to try to make money from the content you have created.

And then, when their earnings amount to practically nothing, they will announce "See, there's no money in stock anymore. I missed the boat".  But they never actually did the work or put in the effort that is required to become a successful contributor.  They took the easy way and it didn't pay off.  What a surprise!

Yes, distributors in general can be risky business. All your stuff is in one basket without much control, and that's never a good idea imho.

But not everyone takes it as seriously or professionally as you do. Some just want to dump their stuff and are happy with whatever it brings in while other have a very calculated approach with something that actually looks like a business plan. Some just don't have the time (or don't want to spend their time) to keyword, have way too many files sitting there doing nothing and I can understand why they dump them to a distributor. Plenty of examples from people that made quite some money that way that they wouldn't have made otherwise. That's the easy road yes, but not always sure it's lazy as they might be very busy or passionate outside microstock. Not up to me to judge any kind of approach, and it's each to their own preferences or needs. Whatever works. Microstock is probably a side hustle anways, and very few have or want to do what it takes to make a comfortable living from it.

I think many of us are somewhere in the middle along that road, and in many cases it means that the distributor gets the leftovers or even crapstock. So if I were a distributor, I wouldn't want to be in that place either, I would still want that quality content that sells as I would have to make money too. So I don't understand Wirestock. If you have quality content it really pays off to keep control and do the effort of keywording and uploading to personal accounts. If you have leftovers or crapstock, rejections (Wirestock has their standards too and if they don't the receiving agency has), sloppy keywording (not very sure this is still the case) probably result in low sales and you might even lose money due to paying the subscription fee. So who are they targeting? I don't fully understand, but apparently it's working as they are still around.

I agree that it's never too late to step in and that putting effort in it is the only way to success. But I feel like it became way more difficult, and success is way higher up the learning curve than it was in the past. A beginner or intermediate food photographer for example will have a hard time to break in, and might get discouraged pretty early in that process. I'm not very familiar with video, but I guess the same applies there. It's what competition does, and I think you have to ask yourself whether the hard work is worth the potential return, and whether equal hard work in other areas outside microstock woulnd't bring in more money :-)
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Brasilnut on May 04, 2024, 06:03
I would be very careful with Wirestock.

I would be careful with any agency! Let's be reminded that I'm currently involved in a friviolous lawsuit via Alamy. Out of all the agencies Alamy would be the last I think this something would happen since perhaps I've naively thought that I'm covered under editorial licenses shooting out in public.

Lots appear contentious these days. Those experimenting with AI may be acting recklessly. Who knows one of my artsy Arcangel silhouettes of people may come back to haunt me, literally! Or my drone footage that was often borderline legal.

Wirestock are just a distributor, so they are at the mercy of their B2B model. They do have a "Wirestock Direct" channel but haven't had sales on there.

I do like Wirestock as at least they're trying to innovate. Check out their challenges page and custom projects, can earn $4 per image accepted. It's both fun and profitable. Their keywording was awful for a long time but they have made efforts to improve.

I've reviewed some turd agencies that have recently popped up and their business model is like something you'd see 15 years ago - wow you're offering subscriptions who would have thought of that!? 
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Doug Jensen on May 05, 2024, 17:18
Check out their challenges page and custom projects, can earn $4 per image accepted. It's both fun and profitable.

It takes me an average of 5 minutes per clip to edit, grade, export, keyword, write a description, and upload.  I wouldn't do that for $4 unless they guaranteed 100% acceptance of every clip I submitted.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Uncle Pete on May 05, 2024, 21:13
Just a quick and easy way to profit, from your backlog.

But I won't profit at all if the metadata is crap.  85% of nothing is the same as 100% of nothing.  Beleive me, I could do some half-assed metadata myself and FTP the clips myself and not give up any percentage. But why waste my time?

If someone could demonstrate to me they could do excellent metadata I'd gladly give up 25%.  But they can't.  It takes effort to describe the content correctly and choose the right keywords and exclude unhelpful keywords -- but they won't make the investment in time and attention.  Metadata is king!!  Most people totally underestimate it's importance.  9 times out of 10 people have asked me to look at their portfolio because they aren't getting sales, it turns out their metadata is crap.

I would be very careful with Wirestock. You also will need to take a monthly subscription in order to get your content distributed to agencies. $14.99 for 200 submissions per month. On top of the 15% commission they take.

I tested them when it was still free, except for the 15% commission, and the keywording done by them was below par. That said, content uploaded through Wirestock gets sold on the agencies.

I got increasingly more dissatisfied with them, as they just do what they like with your content without giving much transparency or control over it. They onboard new agencies as they like, and some of them are agencies you might not want to be affiliated with (bottom of the barrel stuff). Back then, their site was also full of bugs which took forever to fix. In the end, the monthly subscription killed it for me, and now I just take the money from what I uploaded back then.

I would only use them for content you don't really care about, and never plan to upload. So if you have a few thousands of useful clips that are sitting there and you don't plan to upload it you might give it a try. In that case, I would contact them directly, and try to work out a deal. 200 assets/month upload limit is ridiculous and will take you forever.

I think you covered that quite well.

I was only making a simple point, which has turned into many side discussions, variations, inspections, and contradictions.

Here's what I was trying to point out. If someone has 5,000 videos and is too busy with better ways to make money and more profitable endeavors. They could dump them on a distribution platform, and continue doing the more profitable work.Yes, another negative is, paying for 200 files a month, which is also limiting. Or some annual plan. How long would it take to upload 5,000 files?  ;D

You also hit something in that WS makes deals. Someone with 5,000 video files, could probably say, here's what I have, and WS would jump at the volume and quality of someone established. But I can't speak for them or any promises of some hypothetical. I can say that, WS does make special deals, outside of the published.

Let me reduce this to minimal math. If I have 500 files, making nothing and I upload them "somewhere" and I make $1. I have $1, and doing nothing, I have NOTHING. Which is more?  :)

Yes I know, there's no incentive to make $1, but $1, $100 or $1,000 is always going to be more than nothing. The only sure thing in this is, if someone does nothing, uploads nothing, I can promise them a sure thing. They will earn nothing.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Doug Jensen on May 06, 2024, 09:32
The only sure thing in this is, if someone does nothing, uploads nothing, I can promise them a sure thing. They will earn nothing.

Sometimes nothing is better than something that takes more effort than it is worth.

I also want to be mindful of not uploading content that cannibalizes my own similar content.  For example, I have about 5000 4K clips that are edited, graded, and waiting for metadata. But almost all of that content is similar to other stuff I already have submitted before.  So, if I already have a dozen nice clips of elk bugling in Yellowstone, will another dozen significantly improve my earnings?  Doubtful.  Do I want to allow an agency to sell clips for $1 that are similar to clips that regularly earn $30 per download?  No. Clearly uploading more and more similar content has diminishing returns.

If I really want to increase my earnings, I would need to create content that is markedly different from what I already have in my portfolio.  And that is true for every contributor that already has a successful portfolio.  If you want to earn more, you really need to spread your wings and come up with stuff that does not cannibalize what you already have working for you.

The problem is, I have no interest in shooting what I think will sell.  I shoot what I want to shoot for fun, and any income it may earn is a secondary consideration. So, as long as I'm not willing to go shoot stuff like hipsters playing ukuleles on the beach or silver-haired senior citizens people cycling through a park while grinning like morons -- even though there is money to be made there -- my earnings will not increase in proportion to the size of my portfolio.

Excuse me now, while I go shoot another 200 clips of birds in flight.  :-)




Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Doug Jensen on May 06, 2024, 09:35
I can say that, WS does make special deals, outside of the published.

I aksed you earlier, but didn't see an answer.  Can you post a link to the page on Wirestock where they talk about their service of generating metadata?  I can't find it anywhere on their site.  I hope you would agree that is a very serious topic to learn about before signing up.  Where is it?
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Doug Jensen on May 08, 2024, 18:09
Hmmm,  I guess Uncle Pete is ghosting me or he has no answer to a simple question.  Either way, I think that confirms exactly what I thought about Wirestock. 
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: cascoly on May 09, 2024, 12:08
Hmmm,  I guess Uncle Pete is ghosting me or he has no answer to a simple question.  Either way, I think that confirms exactly what I thought about Wirestock.

Pete is busy promoting his crapstock portfolio...

here's what WS says

https://wirestock.io/about-us  what we do
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Doug Jensen on May 09, 2024, 12:23
here's what WS says
https://wirestock.io/about-us  what we do

Thanks for the link.  I must say I am overwhelmed my the amount of detail they provide: 
"Here at Wirestock, we eliminate all the manual steps such as keywording and captioning".

That's it.  Not a single scrap of information beyond that one sentence. And if that doesn't convince me that they know what they are doing, nothing will. :-\
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: cascoly on May 10, 2024, 14:24
here's what WS says
https://wirestock.io/about-us  what we do

Thanks for the link.  I must say I am overwhelmed my the amount of detail they provide: 
"Here at Wirestock, we eliminate all the manual steps such as keywording and captioning".

That's it.  Not a single scrap of information beyond that one sentence. And if that doesn't convince me that they know what they are doing, nothing will. :-\

they used to have more details, but i couldn't find them. they always did metadat earlier (w variable results) but i havent uploaded since they went to a premium option
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Uncle Pete on May 13, 2024, 13:41
Hmmm,  I guess Uncle Pete is ghosting me or he has no answer to a simple question.  Either way, I think that confirms exactly what I thought about Wirestock.

Pete is busy promoting his crapstock portfolio...

here's what WS says

https://wirestock.io/about-us  what we do

 ;D

Yes and I actually work for a living sometimes, especially in the Summer.

Hmmm,  I guess Uncle Pete is ghosting me or he has no answer to a simple question.  Either way, I think that confirms exactly what I thought about Wirestock. 

First part, I don't work for WS, I don't think their keywording is particularily good. It's visually descriptive, and we all know that without details, that wouldn't be as good as, the artist who knows.

They charge to have an account and take 15%, unless that changed. There's a 200 limit, but I'm pretty sure, with your reputation and history, if you said, I have 5,000 files... they would jump at the opportunity. Maybe for free and maybe, mail a hard drive, we'll do everything else.

I'm going to make my point, as a person and what I was trying to say TO YOU, not about WS or anything else.

If you have a pile of horse crap in one hand, and 5,000 files on a hard drive... which one is more? If you uploaded 5,000 files to WS and got 85% of whatever they make you, for doing nothing else but taking the time to upload them, or you have no account, no files and nothing. Which one is more valuable.

Stop nit picking at side issues and details, and expecting me to know WS business. I was simply saying, if you upload the files, they will get distributed to any of the places you select, and you'll make money. Which is? "more than what you have now which is nothing."  ;D

Now for myself and my motivation? I get $8 if you use the link. And some kind of pennies, if you get some downloads. I hope you make a million dollars, because I'd make...

  1. When you refer a new contributor to Wirestock and they become a premium subscriber, you’ll instantly earn $8.

  2. Additionally, you will earn ten percent (10%) of the total royalties generated by your referral for a full year. For example, if your referral earns $500 in royalties, you get an extra $50 in your pocket.


Important: Wirestock will pay you the referral commission from our share of the earnings (the 15%), so rest assured that your referral’s earnings will not be affected in any way. It’s a fantastic way to benefit from helping grow the Wirestock community!


I'm only in it for the money.  https://wirestock.io?ref=peter.klinger  Mercenary, money grubbing, promotion, referral link = https://wirestock.io?ref=peter.klinger

BTW here's more from WS about what they pay you.

https://wirestock.io/docs/faq?q=doYouHaveAReferral

"Why Do I Need Wirestock?

Selling on all major marketpaces from a single account is a unique feature that helps creators save time and boost sales by more than 10 times. In addition Wirestock’s one-of-a-kind “Easy Submission” tool takes the writing of metadata off of creators’ shoulders, filling out descriptions, titles, keywords, and other required fields for them. The required information will be filled out by Wirestock submission experts, so you will be getting top quality while boosting your sales in the meantime.

How Do I Get Paid?

Payment structure

You will get 85% of all royalties earned through Wirestock’s partner marketplaces. The earnings will be displayed on your dashboard. At the end of each month, you will be paid the total amount earned if the balance on your account exceeds the minimum payout amount."

Conclusion? You can make 85% by submitting the files, that are making nothing. And you are now making 100% of nothing, instead of 85% of something. If you make $1, it's more than nothing. You said you have 5,000 files, and no time to do anything with them. WS will do the data and distribution and pay you whenever you reach $30 in credit. (oh and the coolest part is, they will give me $3!)


Click here now, everyone, make me some money?  https://wirestock.io?ref=peter.klinger 
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: cascoly on May 13, 2024, 15:18
note, though, you can't have them submit to any agency you've already submitted those images to
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Roscoe on May 14, 2024, 11:07
note, though, you can't have them submit to any agency you've already submitted those images to

And you don't always have control over that. If they onboard a new agency and it's one that you are already submitting to via a personal account, you might end up in a situation where they submit images that are already there... and get accepted. Easy to miss such notification from them because their mails tend to end up in a spam folder or you just might be on holiday and miss it.  I have that with Getty (via iStock on my personal account, and via Wirestock). And they sell via both channels. I haven't seen any consequences of that, but I guess theoretically it can happen that one of the accounts get suspended.

Anyhow, that's a situation you have with any distributor. Same with EyeEm in the past.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Uncle Pete on May 14, 2024, 14:47
note, though, you can't have them submit to any agency you've already submitted those images to

And you don't always have control over that. If they onboard a new agency and it's one that you are already submitting to via a personal account, you might end up in a situation where they submit images that are already there... and get accepted. Easy to miss such notification from them because their mails tend to end up in a spam folder or you just might be on holiday and miss it.  I have that with Getty (via iStock on my personal account, and via Wirestock). And they sell via both channels. I haven't seen any consequences of that, but I guess theoretically it can happen that one of the accounts get suspended.

Anyhow, that's a situation you have with any distributor. Same with EyeEm in the past.

Yes, there's another negative. I don't know how or what I could do to end the 3¢ uses by Extra Channels. Maybe that was Evanto or ? They did add everything to IS when that came back online. I'm sure I have duplicates being sold under two accounts. Pond5 wrote me to say I either stole and image or mine was stolen, because two accounts have the same image. Guess what? It was mine from Wirestock.

Hasn't hurt me, but you are right, there is some lack of control. On the other hand, I won't pay to play, so only the oldest images from, upload everything and see what passed, when WS opened, is online. It's  "everything" going back to about 2009.

AS, SS, I upload on my own. Which makes WS prefect for distribution of aging Microstock, where I don't have to have an account and wait 10 years to cash out. IS, AL, DT, I have some from both myself and WS.

There's my biggest attraction. Make $30, anywhere, any combination of agencies, get paid.

Sorry for the thread hijack:  Shutterstock is an embarassment
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: dbvirago on May 14, 2024, 18:19
My SS earnings used to be 15x higher than now, and they just keep nosediving from month to month. Once a good earner, now abomination. Seems like it will join mid-tier agencies soon. Inexcusable.

During this same time, my Adobe Stock earnings has been growing, and Istock has been consistent.

I'm considering to start treating SS like the other mid-tier agencies and completely stop uploading there.

Identical experience for me too.

This. In the 20 years I've been doing this, I've never even considered an exclusive agreement, but if Adobe offered one, I'd drop the rest of them, inlcuding SS. They used to be 50% of my total revenue, now they are 10-20% while adobe is 60-80%.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: YadaYadaYada on May 15, 2024, 06:55
My SS earnings used to be 15x higher than now, and they just keep nosediving from month to month. Once a good earner, now abomination. Seems like it will join mid-tier agencies soon. Inexcusable.

During this same time, my Adobe Stock earnings has been growing, and Istock has been consistent.

I'm considering to start treating SS like the other mid-tier agencies and completely stop uploading there.

Identical experience for me too.

This. In the 20 years I've been doing this, I've never even considered an exclusive agreement, but if Adobe offered one, I'd drop the rest of them, inlcuding SS. They used to be 50% of my total revenue, now they are 10-20% while adobe is 60-80%.
Nearly every sale now is a Single Other for 10 cents. Adobe will never offer exclusive, but if they did, I'm with you.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Doug Jensen on May 15, 2024, 08:28
So far this month, I've had almost exactly the same number of downloads at Shutterstock as at Adobe.
The average sale at Adobe has been $11.60
The average sale at Shutterstock has been $16.47

That's about 40% more income for the same number of sales. Shutterstock isn't what it used to be, but it is still king.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: wds on May 15, 2024, 09:41
So far this month, I've had almost exactly the same number of downloads at Shutterstock as at Adobe.
The average sale at Adobe has been $11.60
The average sale at Shutterstock has been $16.47

That's about 40% more income for the same number of sales. Shutterstock isn't what it used to be, but it is still king.

Just curious, are you in the USA?
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Doug Jensen on May 15, 2024, 09:59
Just curious, are you in the USA?

Yes, why do you ask?
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: wds on May 15, 2024, 11:25
Just curious, are you in the USA?

Yes, why do you ask?

Only because in other previous posts (by other stills photogs), there seemed to be a trend where US based Shutterstock contributors seemed to be complaining about dropping SS sales and contributors outside the US seemed to be happier with their SS results.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Doug Jensen on May 15, 2024, 11:29
Only because in other previous posts (by other stills photogs), there seemed to be a trend where US based Shutterstock contributors seemed to be complaining about dropping SS sales and contributors outside the US seemed to be happier with their SS results.

Just to be clear, I only sell video.  Stills is a waste of time.
Nevertheless, I am also experiencing fewer sales and lower revenue at Shutterstock.  On the other hand, Adobe is slowly rising, but still not as good as Shutterstock by total dollar volume or per-clip revenue.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: wds on May 15, 2024, 12:06
Only because in other previous posts (by other stills photogs), there seemed to be a trend where US based Shutterstock contributors seemed to be complaining about dropping SS sales and contributors outside the US seemed to be happier with their SS results.

Just to be clear, I only sell video.  Stills is a waste of time.
Nevertheless, I am also experiencing fewer sales and lower revenue at Shutterstock.  On the other hand, Adobe is slowly rising, but still not as good as Shutterstock by total dollar volume or per-clip revenue.

Interesting. I primarily sell stills....could be that at SS video (vs. other agencies) is holding it's own and it is on the stills side where SS seems to be doing seriously worse than AS.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: trucic on May 15, 2024, 12:57
… shutterstock was really a star, especially for video… but they slapped us hard, with those sub plans and royalties… they do sell, by quantity they do - but our part of cake have became a particle.. after years of nor uploading on both SS and AS, first one is going down and second rises even with lower portfolio size…
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: danielstassen on May 15, 2024, 18:45
I wouldn't blame Shutterstock for the lowering of revenue. In my job exporting agricultural products, I understand the impact of market forces. The producers, like farmers and stock content creators, suffer the most from increased competition. Instead of blaming specific agencies, adapting to the market is essential.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Pacesetter on May 15, 2024, 22:32
Here's how my sales are looking so far in May. Shutterstock was showing promise in April and even at the beginning of May, but has since slowed considerably. Shuttertock assets are (at this moment) 2586 videos and 1776 still images, while Adobe is 2135 videos and 1066 still images. iStock not represented as payment is yet to arrive.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Brasilnut on May 16, 2024, 10:18
Shutterstock is indeed an embarassment but the rest of the industry show serious signs of terminal decline at least for my niche.

I've crunched some numbers since 2019 and the picture isn't pretty. Difficult to justify any sort of investment and upgrades with these results.

Key takeaways (SS only)
Port size 2019 (stills): 10,128
Port size May 2024 (still): 12, 297
Increase of 21%

Port size 2019 (clips): 1,030
Port size May 2024 (clips): 1,993
Increase of 94%

Now for my results, see below.

In summary, a decline from 2019 peak for clips of 60% on average downloads and 17% for stills.
Let's not forget that inflation from 2019 to 2024 is about 24% (US) or 4% a year on average.

Is it worth it as a business model for me, not really.


Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: [email protected] on May 16, 2024, 11:19
this month shutterstock slows down. anyone experience  that ?
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Doug Jensen on May 16, 2024, 11:39
this month shutterstock slows down. anyone experience  that ?

This month is better than last month.

Comparing April to May:

49% more earnings per day average.
82% more downloads per day average.


Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: blvdone on May 16, 2024, 11:40
This month, I've earned about $80 per download on Pond5.  Last month was nearly $90 per download.  Number of download hasn't increased much or slightly down compared to last year this time, but because I raised my prices, revenue is up a little bit.  Still mostly HD sales.  Maybe 10-20% are 4k sales depending on the month.  Many HD sales are custom license higher than the prices I set.  Some are discounted due to buyers buying credit packs.

https://www.pond5.com/artist/blvdoneprime (https://www.pond5.com/artist/blvdoneprime)
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Jaggy on May 16, 2024, 15:07
this month shutterstock slows down. anyone experience  that ?

So far, May is normal for me. Not great and not terrible.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: DaLiu on May 16, 2024, 19:59
I'm on track for the BME on SS, SS is performing very well for me overall, AS it's lower than usual this month.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Pacesetter on May 17, 2024, 04:34


Earnings comparison between Shutterstock and Adobe Stock:

WTD = Week-To-Date 
MTD = Month-To-Date

These figures use to be in reverse several years ago which shows for my efforts how far Adobe has progressed compared to poor old beaten down washed-up Shutterstock. 
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: danielstassen on May 17, 2024, 16:25
I'm on track for the BME on SS, SS is performing very well for me overall, AS it's lower than usual this month.

Same here.

SS is performing really well this month.

If I look at my total revenue so far this year from both AS and SS, they are pretty close to each other, and that is with a lower commission on SS.

I just got a $48 sale in SS today. I tend to get a couple of big sales every month on SS. I cannot recall when that happened on AS.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Injustice for all on May 18, 2024, 05:29
this month so far on Adobe I have earned 650% more than on SS,but I haven't uploaded to SS since September 2023.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Pacesetter on May 20, 2024, 01:23
this month so far on Adobe I have earned 650% more than on SS,but I haven't uploaded to SS since September 2023.

The Shutterstock is an embarrassment continues. I've earned 2.6 times in just 5 hours on Adobe Stock than I have in 10 days on Shutterstock. 
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Ambu on May 20, 2024, 23:13
It's really strange that I only received 40-50% of the earnings and sales that I usually get in Shutterstock. And the sales and earnings in Adobe Stock  is normal like every month.

Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: trucic on May 21, 2024, 05:45
… two crazy days, with big footage sales… being on rollercoaster is really frustrating, while P5 is silecened again…
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Sebastian Radu on May 22, 2024, 13:23
this month so far on Adobe I have earned 650% more than on SS,but I haven't uploaded to SS since September 2023.

The Shutterstock is an embarrassment continues. I've earned 2.6 times in just 5 hours on Adobe Stock than I have in 10 days on Shutterstock.

Something similar in my case as well, even though sales at AS have dropped drastically in the last two months.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: yuriy on May 22, 2024, 20:37
i had 9 image sales today.  i didn't make $1.  pathetic.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: blvdone on May 22, 2024, 21:16
SS is going stronger than ever.  I make $300/hr on SS.   ;D ;D

Just kidding.

I only sell photos on SS just like on Adobe Stock btw.  No video sub for me.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Pacesetter on May 22, 2024, 23:52
Somewhat comforting to see others experiencing similar rubbish results I am, though I also sell video but have just taken a more deeper look and noticed that I have only sold videos on 2 days in the last 12 days (and for garbage prices at that) and I usually sell videos more than every second day on average, even during quieter months. So something really wrong here.  >:(
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: yuriy on May 23, 2024, 07:20
ok in the interest of transparency i followed up yesterdays ridiculous 9 sales for less than $1 with my biggest ever image sale on SS.  this is more than 4x my previous largest  so i guess miracles are possible (or they heard me complain and threw me a bone).
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: DaLiu on May 23, 2024, 07:38
For me SS is by far the best agency and the number of sales are constant.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: cascoly on May 23, 2024, 17:57
For me SS is by far the best agency and the number of sales are constant.

same h ere - my running average has been about the same over last few years, down maybe 10%.  AS has been slightly up during that time but is usually < 50% of SS sales.  for me, it may be that SS sells my editorials, while AS won't
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Pacesetter on May 23, 2024, 18:09
For me SS is by far the best agency and the number of sales are constant.

Download numbers are quite good there but I see you have 10x more photos than mine and few less videos. How's the revenue-per-download going? That's where I've seen the biggest hit to earnings.   
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: DaLiu on May 23, 2024, 18:20
For me SS is by far the best agency and the number of sales are constant.

Download numbers are quite good there but I see you have 10x more photos than mine and few less videos. How's the revenue-per-download going? That's where I've seen the biggest hit to earnings.

My RPD mixed (videos+images) is around 0,80$ per download for this year, actually it went up compared with last years.

AS RPD is over 1.1$ per download mixed but half the downloads of SS.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Injustice for all on May 25, 2024, 06:24
Shutterstock would be a great agency,they just need to get these 10c out of the way and set 0.25c at least as minimum.

selling most photos and vectors for 0.10c is not acceptable,there is too much work behind it.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: offisapup on May 27, 2024, 03:37
To give an indication of how far my Shutterstock port has fallen in terms of sales...

Last year in May, my Adobe revenue was half of SS. Downloads were about a quarter of the downloads I had on SS.

This year, Adobe revenue is double that of SS. Downloads are almost equal and slightly higher on SS (SS downloads are down 50 percent from last year though). The revenue is double because my Adobe RPD is about 1$ while on SS it's 25 cents. This despite the fact that I have the same images on both ports. In fact, my SS port is bigger because of editorials.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: kuriouskat on May 27, 2024, 10:41
As well as being a contributor, I often buy from Shutterstock on behalf of the company I work for, and it's just as bad from the customer side. I can't even search for new content, and just get the filter options for Popular and Most Relevant. They return a different selection, but why can't I browse new stuff?

Doesn't seem to be much point in uploading new stuff if customers can't even search for it?
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: DaLiu on May 27, 2024, 11:58
To give an indication of how far my Shutterstock port has fallen in terms of sales...

Last year in May, my Adobe revenue was half of SS. Downloads were about a quarter of the downloads I had on SS.

This year, Adobe revenue is double that of SS. Downloads are almost equal and slightly higher on SS (SS downloads are down 50 percent from last year though). The revenue is double because my Adobe RPD is about 1$ while on SS it's 25 cents. This despite the fact that I have the same images on both ports. In fact, my SS port is bigger because of editorials.

But overall revenue (AS + SS) how is it compared with the last May?
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: offisapup on May 28, 2024, 01:40
To give an indication of how far my Shutterstock port has fallen in terms of sales...

Last year in May, my Adobe revenue was half of SS. Downloads were about a quarter of the downloads I had on SS.

This year, Adobe revenue is double that of SS. Downloads are almost equal and slightly higher on SS (SS downloads are down 50 percent from last year though). The revenue is double because my Adobe RPD is about 1$ while on SS it's 25 cents. This despite the fact that I have the same images on both ports. In fact, my SS port is bigger because of editorials.

But overall revenue (AS + SS) how is it compared with the last May?

Slightly higher thanks to AS. Would have been much higher if SS downloads hadn't dipped so hard.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Injustice for all on May 28, 2024, 09:18
something strange is happening on SS today.

I sold more in 2 hours than I sold in the first 27 days of May,and they keep coming!

but not even a sale above 1 USD for the moment,a storm of 0.10c.

most likely something went off in the algorithm that decided that I had to start selling.

if I had sold all this on Adobe I would have been much happier,unfortunately my portfolio on Adobe seems to be hibernating this month!

wake up Adobe it's almost summer!  :D
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: danielstassen on May 30, 2024, 08:08
I had my best month ever on Shutterstock in May 2024.

From reading other people’s posts, it's clear that SS performs better for videos and AS for photos.

I only have videos in my portfolio, so I’m very happy with the sales there, even with lower commissions than AS and Pond5.

Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Pacesetter on May 30, 2024, 15:54
Just received $28.40 contributor fund payment.

Anyone else?

At least Shutterstock pays contributors for its use however  a poorly performing agency compared to what it once was.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Injustice for all on May 31, 2024, 05:32
yes,I also received a small contributor fund bonus yesterday.

this month on SS did nothing but confirm that I was right to stop uploading last September.

too many 0.10c sales,when I see all this content sold at 0.10c I feel bad thinking about all the work that went into making it,and I don't want to upload new content,I don't want to see more new content sold at 0, 10,it's unbearable!

I'd like to go back to uploading to SS but they need to get these 0.10c out of the way!
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: AnneVictoire on May 31, 2024, 05:51
I have actually had quite a good month on SS in May, with two larger sales for photos. However, they have now started refusing model releases that are perfectly fine, in some cases accepting four releases for a family of four, then refusing the same releases for other images of the same family, crazy behaviour. Or accepting a photo of a 19th century church and refusing the presbytery next to it on intellectual property grounds. Not sure if the reviewers are human or not, the reviews are much faster but crazy now. Have any of you experienced this in the last few days? Is it worth it contacting them to have explanations?
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Devotio777 on May 31, 2024, 12:31
I also had quite a good month on SS, actually it is even my BME, especially thanks to 3 big editorial photo sales. After a long time, my RPD at SS is around 1 dollar this month, which is very decent. Interestingly enough, all those big sales revolve around transportation.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: DaLiu on May 31, 2024, 13:14
20% more downloads than any other month at SS and the BME in revenue.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Jaggy on May 31, 2024, 20:21
I've had a pretty good month on SS. Second best ever for number of downloads but no big sales so RPD is only $0.32. However still quite a lot more revenue than AS.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: PeteStock on June 13, 2024, 09:22
Anyone elso who is annoyed by the 200 videos per week submission limit? (used to be 100 per day)

I know it still allows to upload up to 10400 yearly (assuming all gets accepted  ???)

However, when I want to upload 2K vertical clips, it takes 10+ weeks blocking me from uploading normal content, so pretty annoying from my point tbh.

When I take stock seriously, I probably make 350 clips weekly...
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Wilm on June 18, 2024, 07:29
Since 6 June, my download figures have deteriorated dramatically. Am I the only one or is it the same for someone else?
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: jar on June 18, 2024, 07:42
-
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Pacesetter on June 18, 2024, 15:41
Since 6 June, my download figures have deteriorated dramatically. Am I the only one or is it the same for someone else?

Download numbers while not good I can't see any dramatic drop off from normal. But the RPD is completely abysmal. For me, Shutterstock doesn't even look the same agency as it did as recent as last year with its consistently poor performance.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: gnirtS on June 19, 2024, 04:37
Since 6 June, my download figures have deteriorated dramatically. Am I the only one or is it the same for someone else?

Showing the same, 30% or so roughly overnight then hasnt picked up.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Jaggy on June 19, 2024, 16:27
June on SS has been okay for me at least so far. Decent level of downloads and RPD for the month to date is at $0.50. AS is about average with RPD at $0.84. But in actual dollars, I'm making three times as much on SS albeit with a significantly larger portfolio.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Micha91 on June 20, 2024, 01:59
Since 6 June, my download figures have deteriorated dramatically. Am I the only one or is it the same for someone else?

I've been on Shutterstock since 2012 and it's worse than in 2014 when I was building up my portfolio. Yesterday, I had a very small number of sales, but I think it's due to changes in search results. In the popular section, there are some mixtures and not what has been positioned over the years. Shutterstock has repeatedly mixed with the algorithms, so let's hope this is temporary.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Roscoe on June 20, 2024, 02:42
Since 6 June, my download figures have deteriorated dramatically. Am I the only one or is it the same for someone else?

Not since June 6th, but somewhere earlier this year. Sudden drop in sales volume of let's say 50% and never recovered, despite regular uploading.

A lot of people are complaining about significant lower sales volume, so it seems to be a more general thing. On the other hand, some folks also report to see very little impact and they keep their volumes on par or even see a rise.

Strange. I know sales volumes can highly depend on quality and type of content, and comparing between contributors is very difficult, but those sudden drops are weird.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Shuttershock on June 20, 2024, 03:01
Only photos in my library but rankings is the same every month in terms of value (not number of photos sold).
1. Adobe
2. iStock
3. Shutterstock
4. Alamy
5. Dreamtime
6. Deposit Photos
7. 123RF
8. Bigstock
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Brasilnut on June 20, 2024, 05:54
Since 6 June, my download figures have deteriorated dramatically. Am I the only one or is it the same for someone else?

Not since June 6th, but somewhere earlier this year. Sudden drop in sales volume of let's say 50% and never recovered, despite regular uploading.

A lot of people are complaining about significant lower sales volume, so it seems to be a more general thing. On the other hand, some folks also report to see very little impact and they keep their volumes on par or even see a rise.

Strange. I know sales volumes can highly depend on quality and type of content, and comparing between contributors is very difficult, but those sudden drops are weird.

In my case, taking for example my results for May 2019 vs May 2024 (photos only).

May 2019
Portfolio size: 9,565
Images sold: 453
Earnings: 304
Average return per download: 67cents
https://brutallyhonestmicrostock.com/2019/05/31/may-2019-brutally-honest-earnings-report/

May 2024
Portfolio size: 12,318
Images sold: 264
Earnings: 97
Average return per download: 38cents
https://brutallyhonestmicrostock.com/2024/05/31/may-2024-brutally-honest-earnings-report/

Now let's compare the metrics (May 2019 vs May 2024).
Portfolio size: +28%
Images sold: -42%
Earnings: -68%
Average return per download: -45%


If this were a flower shop or restaurant, etc with similar numbers it would have been forced to close long ago.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: blvdone on June 20, 2024, 10:10
Interesting.  This month is on its way to the lowest download this year, but the highest revenue due to several higher price sales.  Maybe SS realized el cheapo isn't the way to go to maximize corporate profit.  RPD is higher on SS than Adobe Stock this month so far.  Adobe Stock RPD is $0.80.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: akaza on June 20, 2024, 10:11
This month (June), i have very low sales. Down about 70% from average. Very unusual for me  :( :(
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: TonyD on June 20, 2024, 10:55
I only sell photos on Shutterstock and Adobe Stock.  I have 2x more photos on Shutterstock because they accept editorials.  But my revenue is 1/3 of Adobe Stock.  Shutterstock definitely isn’t for creators.  They are for their stockholders.  Squeeze squeeze squeeze!!
I would ditch SS if i could but they take editorial.Adobe is better for creators & Alamy is for editorial but sales there are very poor for me.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Wilm on June 21, 2024, 10:24
Thank you all for your answers!

@Alexandre: It looks similar for me. June in a 5-year comparison at shutterstock:

06/2014:
- approx. 1,000 images in the portfolio
- $ 508

06/2019:
- approx. 1,200 images in the portfolio
- $ 353

06/2024 until now:
- 1,367 images in the portfolio
- $ 90
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Uncle Pete on June 21, 2024, 11:27

If this were a flower shop or restaurant, etc with similar numbers it would have been forced to close long ago.

If this was a flower shop and they promised to pay you $10 an hour, then every year, dropped your wages, so 2019 $10, 2020 $9, 2021 $8... 2024 $5, but the employee keeps coming to work (as in, keeps uploading to SS) then why would the business care? They get the job done, the business profits, they pay less and less, and the workers may complain, but they keep coming to work.  :o

I tend to think that a couple hundred images and videos ago, SS decided, they didn't really need new content, just pay pennies for the old. And if people leave, what does SS care, they have hundreds of millions of images already.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Roscoe on June 21, 2024, 11:54

If this were a flower shop or restaurant, etc with similar numbers it would have been forced to close long ago.

If this was a flower shop and they promised to pay you $10 an hour, then every year, dropped your wages, so 2019 $10, 2020 $9, 2021 $8... 2024 $5, but the employee keeps coming to work (as in, keeps uploading to SS) then why would the business care? They get the job done, the business profits, they pay less and less, and the workers may complain, but they keep coming to work.  :o

I tend to think that a couple hundred images and videos ago, SS decided, they didn't really need new content, just pay pennies for the old. And if people leave, what does SS care, they have hundreds of millions of images already.

It's even a bit different, because we don't have to show up at ShutterStock every day as we should do in a flower shop :-) We just leave our images there which is effortless. And they still sell. But less, and for less than in the past. We accept it and squeeze it out. We also still upload there, because for most of us it's an automated or semi-automated process. Rather effortless too to upload to ShutterStock.

But the main point is very right: they can do whatever they want, they keep on growing in terms of database volume. If everybody would pull their portfolio's it's a different story, but that's never gonna happen. For many people, myself included, ShutterStock still provides some money that comes in very handy and would be a shame to miss out on. And for some, it even provides a living. Having the right niche, having the unfair advantage as the tend to call it, combine it with some good enough photography skills and you'll probably still doing rather good there.

That said: the trend is clear. Downhill. But this was already the case in 2019 when I started out and started reading the forums. People were complaining and moaning about a dying business model too. Truth has to be said: they were pretty much right on it :-)
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Brasilnut on June 21, 2024, 12:43
Flower shop is perhaps the wrong analogy. Closer to our business is something liker Uber.

In many countries the drivers pay Uber 25% of their gross profits. In the UK I was shocked to hear that they pay 40%!

What is stopping Uber from increasing their commission in most countries up to 40%? Of course if they did many drivers would protest and quit (or use alternative apps) as it's just not viable...but Uber wouldn't care, they have too many drivers anyway and have run all the projections anyway on their spreadsheets. Or do away with drivers altogether in 10-15 years' time when some cars will be fully automated.

Just like what Alamy did in 2019 and even worse, Shutterstock in 2020. We, as contributors, have put up with it because as mentioned above it's easy for us to keep going as our workflow is fast and efficient (and mine now even more with AI keywording with PhotoTag).

But there will come a point when it's absolutely not viable anymore. Perhaps if I'm earning just $50 from 15,000 images and 4,000 clips at Shutterstock on any given month it's really time to never upload again. I wouldn't close the account because at that point it's 100% passive.

In the meantime we have some hope of a great month...i sometimes hear news of an image at Shutterstock earning someone $500 and a clip even close to $1k. I don't get it.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Wilm on June 21, 2024, 18:26


But there will come a point when it's absolutely not viable anymore. Perhaps if I'm earning just $50 from 15,000 images and 4,000 clips at Shutterstock on any given month it's really time to never upload again. I wouldn't close the account because at that point it's 100% passive.




Let's not kid ourselves, Alexandre: the day will come. And it won't be long now.

There was a time when microstock was really fun.

A few years ago, I said that I would quit Microstock if the monthly income fell below 1,000 euros.

The time has since come. I'm still involved, but my productivity has dropped to almost zero.

It also no longer makes sense as long as the legalities between AI and copyright have not been clarified.

Nevertheless, the microstock period also had its good side: money is still coming in. Less, much less, than before. But also without work.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Pacesetter on June 22, 2024, 03:27
Last two days of the week:

Thursday 1 sale for 10 cents
Friday zero sales

All this place can achieve on two weekdays is an average of 5 cents a day with 2500+ videos and 1700+ images.

And it's not like my content doesn't sell. I regularly sell over 70 videos a month on iStock as well as about the same in images and sell a good amount of photos and videos on Adobe Stock (which currently has 220% more earnings this month than Shutterstock), and even doing kinda okay on Pond5.

Last year, whenever I had a couple of low consecutive days it was almost certain it would be followed with a high-price video sale. But those sales have vanished this year. Maybe those sales are still happening but I'm not seeing them.     
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: blvdone on June 22, 2024, 07:13
Yesterday, I only made 10 cents on a Friday.  Wow.  This never happened on a weekday.  I want to be making $300/hr of work like some guys do on Shutterstock.  I think many Shutterstock subscribers left and joined Adobe Stock subscription for much larger collection of AI generated photos.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: DaLiu on June 22, 2024, 07:33
For me SS is going better and better, last month was the BME for income and downloads.

Over 4 digits income this month and still one week left to go.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Wilm on June 22, 2024, 11:53
For me SS is going better and better, last month was the BME for income and downloads.

Over 4 digits income this month and still one week left to go.

Congrats! Well deserved!
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: danielstassen on June 22, 2024, 21:32
For me SS is going better and better, last month was the BME for income and downloads.

Over 4 digits income this month and still one week left to go.

For me, Shutterstock is the best platform for video earning compared to Adobe Stock and Pond5.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: trucic on June 23, 2024, 03:55
… Shutterstock really was the best and still sells after years of no uploading…
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: gnirtS on June 24, 2024, 16:37
I tend to think that a couple hundred images and videos ago, SS decided, they didn't really need new content, just pay pennies for the old. And if people leave, what does SS care, they have hundreds of millions of images already.

Id agree but also add SS seems to be transitioning itself to a big-data company not a media stock agency.  Its got the vast database of images, videos complete with descriptions and keywords.  They see the money in offering subsections of that as datasets for AI training and production.
They dont really NEED any more content so will be happy to slow or stop it at some point once the transition is complete.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Uncle Pete on June 25, 2024, 12:04
I tend to think that a couple hundred images and videos ago, SS decided, they didn't really need new content, just pay pennies for the old. And if people leave, what does SS care, they have hundreds of millions of images already.

Id agree but also add SS seems to be transitioning itself to a big-data company not a media stock agency.  Its got the vast database of images, videos complete with descriptions and keywords.  They see the money in offering subsections of that as datasets for AI training and production.
They dont really NEED any more content so will be happy to slow or stop it at some point once the transition is complete.

I think you're right. Also remember when the story was subscription model, how people paid and didn't use all their allotted image downloads. Maybe it's just me, but I get almost no Subs anymore. They list as Single and Other, as if everything is being sold with some new system.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Sean Locke Photography on June 27, 2024, 10:05
On track to make less $$$ than I did my first month in 2013.  The lowest in 11 years.

Good job, SS!
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: RalfLiebhold on June 28, 2024, 13:10
A nice surprise this morning at Shutterstock. My highest image sale ever.
It's an editorial photo from the 50s with 2 American celebrities.

Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: yuriy on June 28, 2024, 17:41
A nice surprise this morning at Shutterstock. My highest image sale ever.
It's an editorial photo from the 50s with 2 American celebrities.

congrats, i can tell you've been at this a long time
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Pacesetter on June 28, 2024, 18:30
A nice surprise this morning at Shutterstock. My highest image sale ever.
It's an editorial photo from the 50s with 2 American celebrities.

Congratulations! When I was looking earlier on my phone with my aging eyes, I mistakenly saw the 5 as a $ and thought yeah $44 not bad. Didn't realise it was a $544 sale!
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: zeljkok on June 28, 2024, 22:19
Congratulations from  me as well

Although I am increasingly more and more frustrated by SS like everyone else, things like this are still possible over there.  We all rightfully glorify Adobe but I haven't heard of anyone making 3-digit sale on Adobe.  Unless you count these 5 bucks a pop free royalties that reach 3-digit net payout once a year for many.   Correct me if I am wrong.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: cobalt on June 29, 2024, 00:20
Congrats on the sale!! Makes me miss my port …;)
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: jar on June 29, 2024, 01:05
ss monthly earnings are a joke, -90% over the last 2 years
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: synthetick on July 01, 2024, 03:56
A nice surprise this morning at Shutterstock. My highest image sale ever.
It's an editorial photo from the 50s with 2 American celebrities.

Congrats!!
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Injustice for all on July 01, 2024, 06:17
Amazing one Ralf,congrats!  :)
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: synthetick on July 03, 2024, 05:19
I came across this Contributor Strategy video via the SS dashboard: https://vimeo.com/961199114?share=copy
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Pacesetter on July 05, 2024, 20:04
Could not have foreseen such poor results with a grand total of $2.30 for the week. But even Adobe Stock has fallen to well under half usual weekly earnings this past week with the lowest since January which is typically very slow (trend line 1 Jan to 6 July attached).

It's the start of the new financial year here in Australia so might have something to do with it but even Shutterstock was doing a whole lot better in July 2023.   
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: zeljkok on July 06, 2024, 00:37
Some of it might be slowing down because of start of summer season, as well as 1st week of July has 2 major holidays in US/Canada   (Canada Day July 1st,  4th of July in US) & many people just take whole week off and go somewhere.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: sgoodwin4813 on July 07, 2024, 12:05
June 2024 was my worst month on SS since August 2009, a few months after I started.  Of course I stopped submitting there when they changed the system in 2020 so that doesn't help.  Every time I think I should just go ahead and submit my already processed and key worded images to them it just isn't worth the bother for 10 cents a pop.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Asthebelltolls on July 08, 2024, 10:42
June 2024 was my worst month on SS since August 2009, a few months after I started.  Of course I stopped submitting there when they changed the system in 2020 so that doesn't help.  Every time I think I should just go ahead and submit my already processed and key worded images to them it just isn't worth the bother for 10 cents a pop.
You and I share similar experiences and game plan. I'll keep my hard earned images with the SS and collect my pennies but they're not going to get another submission until they return to the original minimum compensation of $0.35 I "enjoyed" in 2009 when I first started submitting to them. If everyone adopts the same strategy it'll force their hand. The SS and other agencies will have to listen to all of those who have worked so hard building their portfolios.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: sofijab on July 08, 2024, 12:34
Same with me.June was my worst month on Shutterstock.

Anyone get paid from Shutterstock yet?
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Micha91 on July 08, 2024, 13:02
I see that the issue is widespread. I haven't had it this bad since June and now July for the past 9 years, even though I've been uploading to Shutterstock since 2014. Back then, my portfolio was a fraction of what it is now, and uploading new content didn't feel like throwing it straight into the trash. I've also noticed that very few subscriptions are selling; only on-demand images are moving.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: stocky on July 08, 2024, 13:30
Same with me.June was my worst month on Shutterstock.

Anyone get paid from Shutterstock yet?

Yes, paid last week.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: stocky on July 08, 2024, 13:35
I see that the issue is widespread. I haven't had it this bad since June and now July for the past 9 years, even though I've been uploading to Shutterstock since 2014. Back then, my portfolio was a fraction of what it is now, and uploading new content didn't feel like throwing it straight into the trash. I've also noticed that very few subscriptions are selling; only on-demand images are moving.

Maybe buyers are shifting over to Adobe Stock, as sales there keep increasing?
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Micha91 on July 08, 2024, 13:53
I see that the issue is widespread. I haven't had it this bad since June and now July for the past 9 years, even though I've been uploading to Shutterstock since 2014. Back then, my portfolio was a fraction of what it is now, and uploading new content didn't feel like throwing it straight into the trash. I've also noticed that very few subscriptions are selling; only on-demand images are moving.

Maybe buyers are shifting over to Adobe Stock, as sales there keep increasing?

Yes, on Adobe, but I felt the most growth on iStock, where the increases have been 2-3 times over the past two years.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Wilm on July 08, 2024, 15:07
Same with me.June was my worst month on Shutterstock.

Anyone get paid from Shutterstock yet?

Yes.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Pacesetter on July 08, 2024, 20:54
June 2024 was my worst month on SS since August 2009, a few months after I started.  Of course I stopped submitting there when they changed the system in 2020 so that doesn't help.  Every time I think I should just go ahead and submit my already processed and key worded images to them it just isn't worth the bother for 10 cents a pop.

I stopped submitting images to Shuttterstock last year and stopped videos in March this year before briefly uploading again after a good month in April only to stop again after poor months in May and June.

July 2022: $543.15
July 2023: $683.47
as of 8 July 2024: $2.70

June 2024 was my worst month on SS since August 2009, a few months after I started.  Of course I stopped submitting there when they changed the system in 2020 so that doesn't help.  Every time I think I should just go ahead and submit my already processed and key worded images to them it just isn't worth the bother for 10 cents a pop.
You and I share similar experiences and game plan. I'll keep my hard earned images with the SS and collect my pennies but they're not going to get another submission until they return to the original minimum compensation of $0.35 I "enjoyed" in 2009 when I first started submitting to them. If everyone adopts the same strategy it'll force their hand. The SS and other agencies will have to listen to all of those who have worked so hard building their portfolios.

I think it's already happening. Two comments on Facebook group Stock Coalition discussion this past week or so I find interesting (paraphrased):

1. Shutterstock didn't count on many of the contributors they burned also being customers and accordingly, moved their contributions and purchases (along with other customers they had connections with) to other agencies.

2. The mismanagement of that company is down and out scary!! <-- Actually that's quoted verbatim.  ;D

Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Ambu on July 09, 2024, 11:29
Shutterstock: After the first 9 days of

July 2020 : $66.07 ( around 1000 videos)
July 2021 :$404.12( around 2200 videos)
July 2022 :$171.01( around 3000 videos)
July 2023 :$319.99( around 4500 videos)
July 2024 :$61.03  ( More than 5200 videos)
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Asthebelltolls on July 09, 2024, 13:30
Thanks for sharing, Ambu. And everyone has to ask themselves...You put ALL that time, energy and money to submit your clips to the SS. Was it worth upgrading to 4K and simply have the SS throw a few pennies at you? Ambu has the resounding response. NO!
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Pacesetter on July 11, 2024, 01:36

July 2022: $543.15
July 2023: $683.47
as of 8 July 2024: $2.70


From a little over $2 on 8 July to over $200 by 11 July.

Meanwhile earnings sinking faster than the RMS Lusitania on Adobe.

It's why can really not go exclusive with anyone as things can change very quickly and unexpectedly.



Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Pacesetter on July 12, 2024, 05:57
These last four days is what Shutterstock should look like... and reflects the sales activity as it was last year until December when there was a drop that never really recovered for the first half of 2024. 

Anyone else seeing a lift in higher paying sales?
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Asthebelltolls on July 12, 2024, 06:49
These last four days is what Shutterstock should look like... and reflects the sales activity as it was last year until December when there was a drop that never really recovered for the first half of 2024. 

Anyone else seeing a lift in higher paying sales?
You sound like a troll working for the SS. What part of monthly earnings with the SS are a fraction of what they were more than a decade ago for contributors? Are you
contributing to the SS hoping that the majority of your sales with the SS will drop from $0.35us to $0.10us and then perhaps to $0.05us but you can still look forward to an occasional lift in higher paying sales?
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Pacesetter on July 12, 2024, 07:04
These last four days is what Shutterstock should look like... and reflects the sales activity as it was last year until December when there was a drop that never really recovered for the first half of 2024. 

Anyone else seeing a lift in higher paying sales?
You sound like a troll working for the SS. What part of monthly earnings with the SS are a fraction of what they were more than a decade ago for contributors? Are you
contributing to the SS hoping that the majority of your sales with the SS will drop from $0.35us to $0.10us and then perhaps to $0.05us but you can still look forward to an occasional lift in higher paying sales?

Well most of my posts concerning Shutterstock are critical and scathing of the agency's payments and performance, though sometimes with a touch of sarcasm and dry dark humour.  8) I haven't contributed any stills since last year and pulled back on uploading videos. Thus, my posting record is hardly that of a Shutterstock troll. So calm down there ol' fella.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: trucic on July 12, 2024, 08:09
… something is going on and I like it… like good old days…
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Ambu on July 16, 2024, 00:23
Comparison between Shutterstock and Adobe Stock after 15 days of July 2023 & July 2024:

July 2023:
Shutterstock : $426.10
Adobe Stock : $263.23

July 2024
Shutterstock : $97.31
Adobe Stock : $283.03
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Micha91 on July 16, 2024, 03:26
Comparison between Shutterstock and Adobe Stock after 15 days of July 2023 & July 2024:

July 2023:
Shutterstock : $426.10
Adobe Stock : $263.23

July 2024
Shutterstock : $97.31
Adobe Stock : $283.03

I have similar results on shutterstock; everything is divided by four.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: trucic on July 16, 2024, 07:22
… I really miss those times with multiple 23.70$ cart sales…
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: synthetick on July 17, 2024, 07:39
Surprised to have gotten a $95.01 sale from SS today.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Sean Locke Photography on July 17, 2024, 10:37
On track for the worst month in 11 years.

July 2023 $510
July 2024 $64
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: DaLiu on July 31, 2024, 09:37
Best month on SS since im doing stock, both revenue and downloads, keep up the good work SS.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Big Money on July 31, 2024, 15:22
On track for the worst month in 11 years.

July 2023 $510
July 2024 $64

This might explain why we saw a huge drop in sales. The King is back

https://www.shutterstock.com/g/peopleimages-yuri+a (https://www.shutterstock.com/g/peopleimages-yuri+a)
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Uncle Pete on August 01, 2024, 09:20
On track for the worst month in 11 years.

July 2023 $510
July 2024 $64

Now that the month is over, worst month ever on SS since I started. New record was also set, with six days, in a row, no sales. That's roughly 14 years of being a contributor to SS.

I know this varies by content and amounts and we're all different. One sale on Alamy, surpassed the entire month on SS. That's how bad it was.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Bauman on August 01, 2024, 09:29
Best month on SS since im doing stock, both revenue and downloads, keep up the good work SS.

Congrats! What percentage of your earnings are from videos and what percentage from photos on Shutterstock?

Unfortunately, this was my worst month on SS in 12 years.

In July +10% downloads than June, but my earnings per download dropped from $1.25 to $0.47!  :(

Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Uncle Pete on August 01, 2024, 09:39
On track for the worst month in 11 years.

July 2023 $510
July 2024 $64

This might explain why we saw a huge drop in sales. The King is back

https://www.shutterstock.com/g/peopleimages-yuri+a (https://www.shutterstock.com/g/peopleimages-yuri+a)

I'm hoping that was humor? But one person won't change my sales, I have nothing, like anything his business does. I mean, he doesn't shoot what I do and I don't shoot what he does. (of course his choices and work is much better, but we don't cross markets)

437,116 stock photos, vectors, and illustrations from PeopleImages.com - Yuri A.

I'd guess he does alright.  :)
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: DaLiu on August 01, 2024, 15:10
Best month on SS since im doing stock, both revenue and downloads, keep up the good work SS.

Congrats! What percentage of your earnings are from videos and what percentage from photos on Shutterstock?



30% video, rest images.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Bauman on August 02, 2024, 02:22

30% video, rest images.

Thank you!
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: stocker2011 on August 07, 2024, 15:04
July was awful for me (video), didn't even reach payout threshold and August is already shaping up to be just as bad or if not worse.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Shuttershock on August 07, 2024, 15:50
Shutterstock are beating Adobe for me this month for the first time….Adobe continues will mass rejections, very long review time and long payout time……still good though
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Pacesetter on August 07, 2024, 17:56

August 1 - 6, 2023: $289.34

August 1 - 6, 2024: $21.77
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: odesigns on August 07, 2024, 18:30
August 1 - 6, 2023: $289.34
August 1 - 6, 2024: $21.77

My August, 2024 is bad, but my August, 2023 was horrible.

August 1 - 6, 2023: $22.42
August 1 - 6, 2024: $177.84

Starting August 8, 2023, the month picked up tremendously, so I am still holding out hope for this August.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: cascoly on August 08, 2024, 14:01
August 1 - 6, 2023: $289.34
August 1 - 6, 2024: $21.77

My August, 2024 is bad, but my August, 2023 was horrible.

August 1 - 6, 2023: $22.42
August 1 - 6, 2024: $177.84

Starting August 8, 2023, the month picked up tremendously, so I am still holding out hope for this August.

again, given the wide variability month to month,  single month comparisons aren't as useful as 3 or 4 month running averages
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: yuriy on August 08, 2024, 16:54
August 1 - 6, 2023: $289.34
August 1 - 6, 2024: $21.77

My August, 2024 is bad, but my August, 2023 was horrible.

August 1 - 6, 2023: $22.42
August 1 - 6, 2024: $177.84

Starting August 8, 2023, the month picked up tremendously, so I am still holding out hope for this August.

again, given the wide variability month to month,  single month comparisons aren't as useful as 3 or 4 month running averages

this is comparing a single week of a single month
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: cascoly on August 08, 2024, 20:13
August 1 - 6, 2023: $289.34
August 1 - 6, 2024: $21.77

My August, 2024 is bad, but my August, 2023 was horrible.

August 1 - 6, 2023: $22.42
August 1 - 6, 2024: $177.84

Starting August 8, 2023, the month picked up tremendously, so I am still holding out hope for this August.

again, given the wide variability month to month,  single month comparisons aren't as useful as 3 or 4 month running averages

this is comparing a single week of a single month
statistically, even worse!

next we'll see day by day comparisons!
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Pacesetter on August 08, 2024, 21:28
I've found hourly and even minutely comparisons to be statistically reliable and informative.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: dbvirago on August 10, 2024, 18:46
I'm still at about 60% of my best year in 2017 at Shutterstock, but Adobe has more than made up the difference, so overall, my sales have continued to grow, albeit only slightly.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Micha91 on August 19, 2024, 08:54
Month by month, it’s getting worse, at least for me. Last month was very weak, and August seems like it won’t even reach half of last month. I earned more when I had just a few hundred works back in 2015. New items aren’t selling, which is strange because on Adobe Stock, new items are moving, so that’s probably not the issue. Maybe I have a shadow ban because how else can I explain it? After reaching level 5, I noticed quite intense drops in sales.

Does anyone else have a similar experience? It breaks my heart to see how my once-favorite stock photo site is hitting rock bottom.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Stockhome Syndrome on August 19, 2024, 15:43
Does anyone else have a similar experience? It breaks my heart to see how my once-favorite stock photo site is hitting rock bottom.

My August is surprisingly bad.  I may not hit $1K.  And this at an agency where it wasn't uncommon for me to hit $5K - $7K per month just a few years ago!  Guess everyone who wanted my clips got them.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Uncle Pete on August 20, 2024, 11:38
I've found hourly and even minutely comparisons to be statistically reliable and informative.

Remember the software that would ping the sites, every minute, to check if we had a new download? The agencies had to block that. But 14 years ago, minute by minute was a real thing.

And then the people who watched so close that if there was a drop, in a particular time period, they imagined that they were being blacked out by zones. Now instead of hours, it's black out days.

Speaking of the best SS Subject, which is so true, I've noticed that most of my sales, those wonderful dimes, are not subscriptions anymore. Almost all are Single or OD. Talk about an embarrassment. What used to be no sale Saturday has become, no sale weekends.

I have cameras, lenses, lighting, all kinds of expensive equipment to make better images, and what do I get?

(https://i.postimg.cc/vm0jXMFH/pete_with_dime_400_G.gif)
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Camillo on August 20, 2024, 18:02
My SS earnings used to be 15x higher than now, and they just keep nosediving from month to month. Once a good earner, now abomination. Seems like it will join mid-tier agencies soon. Inexcusable.

During this same time, my Adobe Stock earnings has been growing, and Istock has been consistent.

I'm considering to start treating SS like the other mid-tier agencies and completely stop uploading there.

I stopped uploading to shutterstock in 2020. Was all in but 10 cents is not worth the trouble. Im not very succesful at all in these stock companies but adobe stock is doing better for me than shutter ever did. Shutter was great with video sales.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Camillo on August 20, 2024, 18:08
My SS earnings used to be 15x higher than now, and they just keep nosediving from month to month. Once a good earner, now abomination. Seems like it will join mid-tier agencies soon. Inexcusable.

During this same time, my Adobe Stock earnings has been growing, and Istock has been consistent.

I'm considering to start treating SS like the other mid-tier agencies and completely stop uploading there.

I stopped uploading to shutterstock in 2020. Was all in but 10 cents is not worth the trouble. Im not very succesful at all in these stock companies but adobe stock is doing better for me than shutter ever did. Shutter was great with video sales.

I feel your pain! when shutter used to pay 40 bucks a video I whent out and got a gymbal, professional studio lighting and started leveling up my skills and quality on videos. Was all n and really motivated in 2019 but then in 2020 the great news came and I still feel like what?
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Micha91 on August 21, 2024, 06:37
Does anyone else have a similar experience? It breaks my heart to see how my once-favorite stock photo site is hitting rock bottom.

My August is surprisingly bad.  I may not hit $1K.  And this at an agency where it wasn't uncommon for me to hit $5K - $7K per month just a few years ago!  Guess everyone who wanted my clips got them.


I used to earn somewhat lower amounts, and I don’t think I’ll surpass $1K this month either. The worst part is that I barely have any subscription sales anymore—just Single & Other, sometimes clip packs. The number of sales has dropped about 8 to 10 times compared to the best years, 2017-2019. I’m not sure if it’s due to algorithm changes or customers leaving, but I can’t stop the decline despite frequent uploads.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Asthebelltolls on August 21, 2024, 09:11
Does anyone else have a similar experience? It breaks my heart to see how my once-favorite stock photo site is hitting rock bottom.
My August is surprisingly bad.  I may not hit $1K.  And this at an agency where it wasn't uncommon for me to hit $5K - $7K per month just a few years ago!  Guess everyone who wanted my clips got them.

I can only imagine what your production costs must be if you're making what you claim to make in the microstock business!
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Stockhome Syndrome on August 21, 2024, 12:53
I can only imagine what your production costs must be if you're making what you claim to make in the microstock business!

Production costs? For me, basically zero. It’s me in a spare room in my free time churning out video clips when the inspiration hits.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Pacesetter on August 21, 2024, 16:58
I can only imagine what your production costs must be if you're making what you claim to make in the microstock business!

Production costs? For me, basically zero. It’s me in a spare room in my free time churning out video clips when the inspiration hits.

Curious what your port numbers are, do you have both stills and video? 
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Stockhome Syndrome on August 21, 2024, 17:29
Curious what your port numbers are, do you have both stills and video?

Mostly video. Over 10.000 clips at multiple agencies.  And a handful of stills. 
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Pacesetter on August 21, 2024, 17:34
Curious what your port numbers are, do you have both stills and video?

Mostly video. Over 10.000 clips at multiple agencies.  And a handful of stills.

Really well done and great results (from reading your post on the other thread) even with over 10,000 clips. 
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: cascoly on August 21, 2024, 19:14
....

I stopped uploading to shutterstock in 2020. Was all in but 10 cents is not worth the trouble. Im not very succesful at all in these stock companies but adobe stock is doing better for me than shutter ever did. Shutter was great with video sales.

your choice, but the 10c cheapest sale isn't a true measure - i can't remember anyone here reporting their RPD was < $.20 /image --  mine varies from$.50-.75 /image - only slightly less than AS but with higher actual income/mo (which is what really matters)
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: danielstassen on August 22, 2024, 00:39
A $76.31 video sale on SS today. It’s picking up at about the same time as it did on August 23. I’m hoping the summer slump is over now.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: CptCurk on August 22, 2024, 03:32
Hello !

That mean that for videographer shutterstock is still relevant ? I'm quitting blackbox guild to upload on my own name. I realized that plateform wasn't good at all for the business.

I'm originally videographer, but would like to become hybrid shooter like 80% video / 20% photo.

Do you think Shutterstock is a go to ?
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: WendyT on August 22, 2024, 05:10
....

I stopped uploading to shutterstock in 2020. Was all in but 10 cents is not worth the trouble. Im not very succesful at all in these stock companies but adobe stock is doing better for me than shutter ever did. Shutter was great with video sales.

your choice, but the 10c cheapest sale isn't a true measure - i can't remember anyone here reporting their RPD was < $.20 /image --  mine varies from$.50-.75 /image - only slightly less than AS but with higher actual income/mo (which is what really matters)

I quit SS when my RPD went to <20c for several months in a row, that and their ethics made me pull the pin.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Jaggy on August 22, 2024, 06:42
....

I stopped uploading to shutterstock in 2020. Was all in but 10 cents is not worth the trouble. Im not very succesful at all in these stock companies but adobe stock is doing better for me than shutter ever did. Shutter was great with video sales.

your choice, but the 10c cheapest sale isn't a true measure - i can't remember anyone here reporting their RPD was < $.20 /image --  mine varies from$.50-.75 /image - only slightly less than AS but with higher actual income/mo (which is what really matters)

My average RPD since I started with SS in 2018 is $0.57. My average RPD for this year is $0.91 (helped by a $261 sale a couple of days ago  8))
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Jens G on August 22, 2024, 07:44
...
Does anyone else have a similar experience? It breaks my heart to see how my once-favorite stock photo site is hitting rock bottom.
Same here.
My earnings on Depositphotos is twice that of Shutterstock this month. And it's not because Depositphotos is better than normal.

Shutterstock used to be at least 10 times better than Depositphotos.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: RalfLiebhold on August 22, 2024, 13:56
This is a recurring and daily groundhog day discussion  ;)

There is in my opinion no fundamental general pro or con for Adobe or Shutter ... or any other agency. It all depends very much on the portfolio content.

My personal reality at the moment is that Adobe has pretty much crashed.

Adobe: approx. 200 DLs per month - RPD 80 - 90

Shutterstock: 800 - 900 DLs per month, RPD 70 - 80

Only Foto, no AI

And yes, I hate the January reset at Shutter, but are several months of review times at Adobe really more “ethical” while those images are making money at other agencies in that time?
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Pacesetter on August 23, 2024, 04:31
Here's the real embarrassment for Shutterstock Inc.

On full public display, sinking share prices across all periods. If it's a bit hard to see in the attachment then below is a list of the results.

The only 'green' shoot is its MAX period share price which increased 49.23% but that's across almost 12 years.   

Clearly investors are not invested in this company. Not surprising.

Down 4.79% -1.65 Today
Down 10.47% -3.84 5 Days
Down 20.83% -8.64 1 Month
Down 29.81% -13.94 6 Months
Down 31.03% -14.77 Year-To-Date
Down 24.48% -10.64 1 Year
Down 5.93% -2.07 5 Years
Up 49.23% +10.83 MAX (Since October 2012)
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: lappland_sun on August 24, 2024, 03:23
Here's the real embarrassment for Shutterstock Inc.

On full public display, sinking share prices across all periods. If it's a bit hard to see in the attachment then below is a list of the results.

The only 'green' shoot is its MAX period share price which increased 49.23% but that's across almost 12 years.   

Clearly investors are not invested in this company. Not surprising.

Down 4.79% -1.65 Today
Down 10.47% -3.84 5 Days
Down 20.83% -8.64 1 Month
Down 29.81% -13.94 6 Months
Down 31.03% -14.77 Year-To-Date
Down 24.48% -10.64 1 Year
Down 5.93% -2.07 5 Years
Up 49.23% +10.83 MAX (Since October 2012)

So should I start shorting Shutterstock on wall street and I will earn more  than with stock photos?  ;D
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: DaLiu on August 30, 2024, 12:36
August 2023 - 1505 downloads
August 2024 - 2831 downloads (still 1 day to go) with 6% more photos added and 65% more income

Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: wds on August 30, 2024, 12:52
Weird, some people are seeing growth and others are seeing virtual collapses. Maybe it's geographic?
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: cascoly on August 30, 2024, 14:38
Weird, some people are seeing growth and others are seeing virtual collapses. Maybe it's geographic?

more likely portfolio contents - i sell many editorial images on SS but AS doesn't accept editorial

and then depends whether you concentrate on food, people, travel, etc
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: wds on August 31, 2024, 18:46
Weird, some people are seeing growth and others are seeing virtual collapses. Maybe it's geographic?

more likely portfolio contents - i sell many editorial images on SS but AS doesn't accept editorial

and then depends whether you concentrate on food, people, travel, etc

I have editorial on both (AS generally accepts editorial without people), in fact more editorial on SS than AS, and SS earnings are far below AS at this point.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Micha91 on September 01, 2024, 04:31
August 2024 for me on Shutterstock is a decrease in income compared to:
-July 2024 decrease by 42%,
-August 2023 decrease by 56%
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: cascoly on September 01, 2024, 19:35
Weird, some people are seeing growth and others are seeing virtual collapses. Maybe it's geographic?

more likely portfolio contents - i sell many editorial images on SS but AS doesn't accept editorial

and then depends whether you concentrate on food, people, travel, etc

I have editorial on both (AS generally accepts editorial without people), ..
that's why it's so, difficult to compare - most of my editorials have people/ crowds
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Pacesetter on September 07, 2024, 20:36
August 2020

Downloads : 74
Earnings : 105.88

August 2021

Downloads : 94
Earnings : 134.68

Port had 410 videos as of November 2021

August 2022

Downloads : 80
Earnings : 308.62

August 2023

Downloads : 117
Earnings : 571.69

August 2024

Downloads : 135
Earnings : 258.21

Port increased to over 2700 videos by August 2024

Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Uncle Pete on September 08, 2024, 13:29
My SS earnings used to be 15x higher than now, and they just keep nosediving from month to month. Once a good earner, now abomination. Seems like it will join mid-tier agencies soon. Inexcusable.

During this same time, my Adobe Stock earnings has been growing, and Istock has been consistent.

I'm considering to start treating SS like the other mid-tier agencies and completely stop uploading there.

After 15 pages, I just wanted to agree with the OP "Shutterstock is an embarassment"
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: DaLiu on September 08, 2024, 17:21
Shutterstock it's just fine for some of us, more than fine.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Micha91 on September 09, 2024, 02:07
what can I say. from 220-280 sales per day in 2017-2021. Now I have about 20-30 per day :-[. I have no idea what's going on there but the algorithm hates me.

It's getting worse from month to month in my case.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: gnirtS on September 10, 2024, 15:39
I see that the issue is widespread. I haven't had it this bad since June and now July for the past 9 years, even though I've been uploading to Shutterstock since 2014. Back then, my portfolio was a fraction of what it is now, and uploading new content didn't feel like throwing it straight into the trash. I've also noticed that very few subscriptions are selling; only on-demand images are moving.

Im thinking fewer and fewer are renewing subscriptions (or just abusing the free month).  They've so completely screwed up their licence pricing people no longer bother.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: stocker2011 on September 19, 2024, 07:59
Has anyone seen an increase in their earnings this year from uploading new content to SS?
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: BelieveInStock on September 19, 2024, 13:34
what can I say. from 220-280 sales per day in 2017-2021. Now I have about 20-30 per day :-[. I have no idea what's going on there but the algorithm hates me.

It's getting worse from month to month in my case.

Similar here, I feel your pain.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: RalfLiebhold on September 19, 2024, 15:23
Has anyone seen an increase in their earnings this year from uploading new content to SS?

Yes, this summer I mainly uploaded new material. The new images have led to an increase in income. (The spike in June is due to a single $500 sale).

Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Pacesetter on September 19, 2024, 17:15
Sales volume doesn't appear to have fallen too much (though relative to growing port size it has) but earnings are still way down on last year.

Something curious happening with images though, I'm seeing a lift in the RPD this past two months. Anyone else noticing the same?
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: stocker2011 on September 19, 2024, 19:46
Has anyone seen an increase in their earnings this year from uploading new content to SS?

Yes, this summer I mainly uploaded new material. The new images have led to an increase in income. (The spike in June is due to a single $500 sale).

So there is some hope then, thanks for sharing.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: gnirtS on September 22, 2024, 06:19
Has anyone seen an increase in their earnings this year from uploading new content to SS?

No however for me the algorithm appears to have changed.  Previously about 90% of my stuff sold was older content (3 years or older).  The last few months its shifted to about 75% of newer content (3 years or even a few months) vs older.  Ive never seen that before.

Sales volume is down about 30%, im breaking "worst month for a decade" records every month now in terms of revenue.

Also noticed almost all sales are now low value SODs not subscriptions.  Previously subs made up 90% of sales.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Bauman on September 22, 2024, 08:14

No however for me the algorithm appears to have changed.  Previously about 90% of my stuff sold was older content (3 years or older).  The last few months its shifted to about 75% of newer content (3 years or even a few months) vs older.  Ive never seen that before.

Sales volume is down about 30%, im breaking "worst month for a decade" records every month now in terms of revenue.

Also noticed almost all sales are now low value SODs not subscriptions.  Previously subs made up 90% of sales.

The same thing is happening to me unfortunately. I also stopped selling my bestsellers three months ago on SS and my earnings have decreased by 30-40%.

The only positive aspect is that I am selling the new files, something that is not happening on Adobe Stock.

Usually, in the last two years, I am sending 100 photographs per month (only photos, no videos, no AI). This September I sold about 60 images on Shutterstock created from August 1st onwards ... while the opposite is happening on Adobe, where I only sold 2 photos sent in the same period.

So, now on SS I sell the new files, while on AS only the old ones ... 3 months ago it was the opposite. Unfortunately with these algorithm changes I am losing $300-400 per month ... and I am full time and this is not a good thing.  :(
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: DaLiu on September 22, 2024, 11:12
For me the number of downloads increased almost 80-90% compared with last year, I uploaded this year probably 5% more images and videos and I see a trend that the new files are sold more often and some of the old files from 5-6-7 years ago are starting to sell for the first time but as well I lost some of the best sellers, they don't show up on the first page anymore but overall I'm happy since my earning are growing and this month again its going for the BME regarding earnings and downloads.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Uncle Pete on September 23, 2024, 10:15

Also noticed almost all sales are now low value SODs not subscriptions.  Previously subs made up 90% of sales.

Yes, same for me. Nearly no subs and almost all sales are now OD or SO.

Perhaps the sub people have moved to IS or AS or somewhere else, like those horrid places like Freepik. Anyone who contributes to Freepik is cutting their own (and our) subscription sales at SS, by direct competition.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: kuriouskat on September 24, 2024, 03:30

No however for me the algorithm appears to have changed.  Previously about 90% of my stuff sold was older content (3 years or older).  The last few months its shifted to about 75% of newer content (3 years or even a few months) vs older.  Ive never seen that before.

Sales volume is down about 30%, im breaking "worst month for a decade" records every month now in terms of revenue.

Also noticed almost all sales are now low value SODs not subscriptions.  Previously subs made up 90% of sales.

The same thing is happening to me unfortunately. I also stopped selling my bestsellers three months ago on SS and my earnings have decreased by 30-40%.

The only positive aspect is that I am selling the new files, something that is not happening on Adobe Stock.

Usually, in the last two years, I am sending 100 photographs per month (only photos, no videos, no AI). This September I sold about 60 images on Shutterstock created from August 1st onwards ... while the opposite is happening on Adobe, where I only sold 2 photos sent in the same period.

So, now on SS I sell the new files, while on AS only the old ones ... 3 months ago it was the opposite. Unfortunately with these algorithm changes I am losing $300-400 per month ... and I am full time and this is not a good thing.  :(

The algorithm has definitely changed. I'm a long term contributor, and had images on page one of some search results, which sold almost daily. Now they are nowhere to be seen. However, the images they've been replaced with are very recent uploads, so the search currently appears to be skewed to favour new content, rather than older, popular images. I also have some new images that have sold a few times, and these are on page one of the search.

It looks as if Shutterstock wants us to keep feeding the beast.

I'm guessing they've done this to counterbalance the removal of the option to search by 'New'. Perhaps if they stopped accepting rubbish, they could switch this back on, but I'm pretty sure searching by 'new' would be an embarrassment at the moment.

As a result, my September earnings are way down. 
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Pacesetter on September 24, 2024, 04:37
I haven't uploaded images since October 2023 to Shutterstock but am considering restarting given Adobe Stock's review taken forever.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Injustice for all on September 24, 2024, 06:49
I haven't uploaded to SS since September 2023,it's been a year,and I can say that as far as I'm concerned I made the right choice,Shutterstock is dead for me.

this month so far I have made 600% more on Adobe than on SS not counting the Firefly bonus,with the Firefly bonus I get around 1100% more,compared to SS.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Jaggy on September 24, 2024, 08:06
Shutterstock continues to be my best seller.

So far this year, I've sold 3.5 times more images on SS than on AS and made 3.25 times more revenue.

That said, I've stopped uploading to AS because approval takes months and is extremely inconsistent. 99% of my uploads to SS are approved in less than 48 hours.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: DaLiu on September 24, 2024, 08:30
Shutterstock continues to be my best seller.

So far this year, I've sold 3.5 times more images on SS than on AS and made 3.25 times more revenue.

That said, I've stopped uploading to AS because approval takes months and is extremely inconsistent. 99% of my uploads to SS are approved in less than 48 hours.

I feel the same, keep up the good work.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Ambu on October 30, 2024, 19:43
Shutterstock became very worst for me, Adobe stock is working well for me.
All of sudden sales and earnings on Shutterstock dropped this year, 40-60% earnings down.

After the earnings down...

Like some people said before, Shutterstock kept those earnings within limits. Not earning more than some limit.

If I earn near to that limit within first 20 days of a month, then Get very low earnings for next to days to not cross more than that limit.

If I earn very less than that limit in first 20-25 days. Then that last few days I am getting some good sales. But that don't cross the limit.

Anyone feeling or experiencing the same?

Till last year, I earned more in Shutterstock than Adobe stock every month.

This year, completely opposite. Adobe stock earnings more than Shutterstock earnings every month.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: stocker2011 on October 31, 2024, 07:32
For video it's just awful and continues to decline.

I continue to upload some decent stuff, but revenue always stays within a certain bracket which I can never seem to break out of.

It's almost as if there's a throttle and when I get one decent sale the algorithm says 'right, that's all you're getting for the month' and the tap turns off.

I personally think someone's really f*ckn around with the search results and contributor exposure.

Very discouraging.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Uncle Pete on October 31, 2024, 14:27
Shutterstock became very worst for me, Adobe stock is working well for me.
All of sudden sales and earnings on Shutterstock dropped this year, 40-60% earnings down.

After the earnings down...

Like some people said before, Shutterstock kept those earnings within limits. Not earning more than some limit.


I only wish they would do that for me. Feb/March are triple what Jan and other months are. June way up, July and August dropped down. There's nothing even or limited.
 
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: zeljkok on October 31, 2024, 19:58
For me SS has outperformed AS several months this year, incl. October  despite FireFly bonus and Extended License on AS.

Dismissing SS is premature IMHO.  But to each their own.

Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Ambu on October 31, 2024, 21:02
Shutterstock became very worst for me, Adobe stock is working well for me.
All of sudden sales and earnings on Shutterstock dropped this year, 40-60% earnings down.

After the earnings down...

Like some people said before, Shutterstock kept those earnings within limits. Not earning more than some limit.


I only wish they would do that for me. Feb/March are triple what Jan and other months are. June way up, July and August dropped down. There's nothing even or limited.

I said that's happening to me after decreasing earnings by 40-50%

Are you happy if your earnings decreased by 50% from what you earnings now, and then they keep those earnings in that 50% limit?
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: elliottcowand on November 01, 2024, 03:38
I interviewed Doug Jensen, veteran stock footage contributor, with a portfolio of 9,187.

Question: In terms of sales volumes and revenue, have you experienced a decrease in the past two years since our last interview?

Answer: "If you define “sales volume” as being the total number of clips that are sold, then that number has remained fairly consistent since we last spoke.  Unfortunately, my revenue, which is ultimately the metric that matters most, has dropped by more than 50% during that same time period.  I attribute this to two things:   First, Shutterstock made a lot of changes to their commission structure that have hurt contributors.  And second, Shutterstock is really pushing customers towards a subscription-based sales model which results in overall lower pricing per clip —  thus lower revenue for the contributors who created those clips.

Here’s how I see it:  If a customer pays an agency $50, does it really matter to the agency whether that $50 covers a single download or a hundred downloads?  $50 is $50 of income to the agency no matter how you slice it.  But the agency didn’t put any effort whatsoever into shooting, editing, uploading, or creating the metadata, so they don’t really care whether that $50 covers one download or a hundred downloads.  It’s still $50 of income (minus the commission) to their bottom line.   But to the average contributor, it is devastating because we only get a very small slice of that $50 if the customer is downloading multiple files.  The way the subscription model works, the more clips a customer downloads, the less money any individual contributor will get for their slice of the pie.  The bottom line is that when you have agencies that are offering customers unlimited 4K and HD downloads for as little as $50 per month, who do you think loses?  The contributor."

Link to full interview:

https://brutallyhonestmicrostock.com/2023/06/28/interview-with-doug-jensen-stock-footage-expert-fresh-insight-after-2-years/


"That dude used to attack me when I criticized Shutterstock on Shutterstock's contributor forum.  Now he's suffering the same fate as everybody else huh."...  I had completely forgotten about Shutterstock's forum.  That certainly went away fast after they lowered our commissions.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: yuriy on November 01, 2024, 09:47
For me SS has outperformed AS several months this year, incl. October  despite FireFly bonus and Extended License on AS.

Dismissing SS is premature IMHO.  But to each their own.

i'm seeing this too.  for months (maybe a year) adobe was about 5x shutterstock but starting around may ss starting catching up.  oct is the first month where ss beat as (by about 50%).  i, like many others, was prepared to dismiss them after months of minuscule sales but now that they are competitive i think you're right.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Asthebelltolls on November 01, 2024, 10:57
For me SS has outperformed AS several months this year, incl. October  despite FireFly bonus and Extended License on AS.

Dismissing SS is premature IMHO.  But to each their own.

i'm seeing this too.  for months (maybe a year) adobe was about 5x shutterstock but starting around may ss starting catching up.  oct is the first month where ss beat as (by about 50%).  i, like many others, was prepared to dismiss them after months of minuscule sales but now that they are competitive i think you're right.
10 years ago the SS paid a minimum $35us per HD sale. I guess today's generation of contributors are far more happy with sales versus income. :'(
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: DaLiu on November 02, 2024, 11:15
I think SS changed the search algorithm for pictures/videos again from 1st of November, I was checking a lot in the last months where my files where located in the pages and for the last 3-4 months they prioritize the new files which jumped my sales a lot, over 100 assets on daily basis, now I see they went back to the most downloaded assets back on the front pages, I already see an impact, curios if anybody else saw any impact in volume of sales for the 1st of November compared with the last months.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Jaggy on November 03, 2024, 09:40
I think SS changed the search algorithm for pictures/videos again from 1st of November, I was checking a lot in the last months where my files where located in the pages and for the last 3-4 months they prioritize the new files which jumped my sales a lot, over 100 assets on daily basis, now I see they went back to the most downloaded assets back on the front pages, I already see an impact, curios if anybody else saw any impact in volume of sales for the 1st of November compared with the last months.

I probably don't have your volume of sales but, from what I can see, November sales, so far, are the usual mix of old and new material. Overall, I've increased my portfolio by 21% this year (32% last year) and sales are on track to be up around 25%-30% for 2024. Revenue is already up 33% over 2023.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: yuriy on November 04, 2024, 09:53
For me SS has outperformed AS several months this year, incl. October  despite FireFly bonus and Extended License on AS.

Dismissing SS is premature IMHO.  But to each their own.

i'm seeing this too.  for months (maybe a year) adobe was about 5x shutterstock but starting around may ss starting catching up.  oct is the first month where ss beat as (by about 50%).  i, like many others, was prepared to dismiss them after months of minuscule sales but now that they are competitive i think you're right.
10 years ago the SS paid a minimum $35us per HD sale. I guess today's generation of contributors are far more happy with sales versus income. :'(

having trouble understanding your point but i am happy that SS is paying me more this month than all the months that came before.  i haven't found a way to go back to 10 years ago yet but let me know if you have a good strategy.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: zeljkok on November 04, 2024, 14:06
Their point was probably that today' contributors are just glad to get a sale, regardless of actual $ amount. 

But decline is not pertinent only to SS.  In old days $$$ sales on places like Alamy were common, even occasional 4 figure sale.  This is just general fall of the industry as a whole, because of content saturation and now AI generative engines trying to stamp final nail in the artist coffin.   SS is just one player.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: yuriy on November 04, 2024, 19:09
at the end of the day everyone has to decide for themselves if they want to continue contributing to microstock agencies at the current rates of pay.  i know it was better before but there doesn't seem to be a convenient way to go back to that time.  most of us on the forum in 2024 are here because we are still contributing despite the lower pay.  a few folks here and other places have recently recognized that SS has been earning more, much more than when this thread started.  in my option it is becoming relevant again, by today's standards, even if it will never earn what it did in 2016 ever again. 
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: OM on November 06, 2024, 11:26
After SS cut the contributor rates, I never submitted again. I started at SS in 2012 and with less than 1,000 photos and no video I was making a consistent $200-$300/month from 2014 until 2019. After the executive bandits arrived (2020 and left 2022?) sales dropped below $100/month and now I don't even reach payout (<$25) some months. Hasn't cost me any effort at all since I stopped submitting, so anything my now 'vintage' archive brings is free money.

I forget the name of the CEO (or whatever title he had) who ushered in the crushing of contributor earnings but he must have made out like a bandit with all his stock options.....and within a couple of years he was gone...greener pastures on the horizon and thanks for all the folding greenery in my pocket!
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: dbvirago on November 19, 2024, 11:02
I knew it would happen eventually, but after 19 years, I finally quit uploading to Shutterstock. As with many of you, sales have been sliding downhill for years. Rather than making more than all other sites combined, they are now just another middle tier. And a few weeks ago, for whatever reason, they went from accepting 99% of my submissions, they have been rejecting 90%. This tipped them way over on the trouble/worth scale. Over the last few  years I have culled my agencies down considerably and now there are 4. It wouldn't take much incentive to do something I thought I'd never do and go exclusive with Adobe.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Uncle Pete on November 19, 2024, 13:09
After SS cut the contributor rates, I never submitted again. I started at SS in 2012 and with less than 1,000 photos and no video I was making a consistent $200-$300/month from 2014 until 2019. After the executive bandits arrived (2020 and left 2022?) sales dropped below $100/month and now I don't even reach payout (<$25) some months. Hasn't cost me any effort at all since I stopped submitting, so anything my now 'vintage' archive brings is free money.

I forget the name of the CEO (or whatever title he had) who ushered in the crushing of contributor earnings but he must have made out like a bandit with all his stock options.....and within a couple of years he was gone...greener pastures on the horizon and thanks for all the folding greenery in my pocket!

You're right. Two years and out.

Stan Pavlovsky, announced as Chief Executive Officer. He will also join the Board of Directors and, Jon Oringer, currently Chief Executive Officer, who will be Executive Chairman of the Board. These changes are effective April 1, 2020.

The new earnings structure was announced to take effect June 1, 2020. Included with that. all contributors will be reset to level 1 for both images and videos every year on January 1st, 2021. (Instead of 25c minimum and rewards for selling more, lifetime, the minimum is now 10¢)

Level 1: Up to 100 (15%)
Level 2: 101 to 250 (20%)
Level 3: 251 to 500 (25%)
Level 4: 501 to 2,500 (30%)
Level 5: 2,501 to 25,000 (35%)
Level 6: Over 25,000 (40%)

Paul Hennessy was named Chief Executive Officer, effective July 1, 2022. Mr. Hennessy, a Company Board member since 2015, succeeds Jon Oringer, Shutterstock's founder, who is currently serving as Interim Chief Executive Officer. Mr. Oringer will remain as Executive Chairman of the Board.

"SSTK’s top-line growth has largely been driven by acquisitions, a trend that may not continue, as management has indicated a plan to maintain these costs as recurring expenses for the next several years. This reliance on acquisitions, combined with a gradual decline in subscriber numbers and revenue per subscriber metrics, signals a troubling trend that management has not adequately addressed."  https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/topstocks/shutterstock-inc-sstk-a-bear-case-theory/ar-AA1tCwSF?ocid=BingNewsSerp (https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/topstocks/shutterstock-inc-sstk-a-bear-case-theory/ar-AA1tCwSF?ocid=BingNewsSerp)

SSTK stock Round numbers:
June 2020 $38 a share
June 2021 $91
June 2022 $59 (Stan gone)
June 2023 $49
June 2024 $38
today $29 a share

We paid for that boom along with the popularity of SSTK as a hot and growing stock. The value has come back down to reality. The article above which is recent, says there might be an interest in selling SSTK short, which means, in effect, betting that the price is going to drop further.

Now that Shutterstock has taken all the value out of what it costs to pay us, and they have invested in buying other companies and branched out, they are in trouble.Or maybe, if I want to be kinder and more positive, they are going to level off at some point. I still get a laugh out of the most recent earnings call, where they said "we aren't losing money as fast as we were" which is supposed to be a positive?

One more prediction is, the stock may fall to under $20 a share. "Furthermore, data from ALTD shows a notable decline in e-commerce sales that contradicts management's assertions, further validating the bearish thesis. Concerns regarding management integrity are heightened by prior misrepresentations about the performance of their e-commerce segment, which raises questions about the reliability of their segment reporting and overall transparency. These factors collectively suggest that SSTK is at a critical juncture, reinforcing the case for a short position in light of the deteriorating fundamentals and management's failure to acknowledge the broader challenges facing the business."

Anyone who thinks SS is their best earner and will continue to be that, might want to brace for the future. Things will get worse and may never get better. Microstock is not making a comeback. AI and Adobe are growing and earning, maybe including that in your future plans would be a good idea.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: cascoly on November 19, 2024, 15:53
... Over the last few  years I have culled my agencies down considerably and now there are 4. It wouldn't take much incentive to do something I thought I'd never do and go exclusive with Adobe.

of course, you have to remove all your images on other sites, not just stop uploading
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: cobalt on November 19, 2024, 16:50
That is a good article.

The point about being intransparent about how the business is falling is important.

They have been trying to mask losing huge amounts of customers to Adobe by buying up agencies. But since they are not addressing the underlying issues why customers and producers are leaving them, the problem is only getting worse.

They need a completely new management that is sincerely interested at growing the core business.

Or they could just sell themselves to Getty or Adobe if the share price keeps falling.

Of course they can keep cruising down for a few years, it is not something that will happen overnight.

Here is the twitter feed

https://x.com/Fierce__beast/status/1834341574219534648
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: dbvirago on November 19, 2024, 18:05
... Over the last few  years I have culled my agencies down considerably and now there are 4. It wouldn't take much incentive to do something I thought I'd never do and go exclusive with Adobe.

of course, you have to remove all your images on other sites, not just stop uploading

No, I didn't mean be exclusive to them, but have all future images exclusive to them. Some site, don't remember which, used to pay better for images that were exclusive. I have 34K images on SS. It would take a lot to incent me to delete them all.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: danielstassen on November 19, 2024, 20:41
For videos, SS consistently remains my top earner.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: stoker2014 on November 20, 2024, 03:16
It is unclear why the authors' income has decreased. It seems that buyers are leaving Shutterstock, but why.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: kuriouskat on November 20, 2024, 04:44
It is unclear why the authors' income has decreased. It seems that buyers are leaving Shutterstock, but why.

Maybe because they are accepting loads of rubbish images and the search is awful? I'm guessing customers that have relied on Shutterstock for years, can't find what they want and are jumping ship.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: cobalt on November 20, 2024, 04:53
A lot of new high quality content is missing. The ports that used to make 6k a month from SS alone, if they drop to below a thousand or maybe even just a few hundred..why should they keep sending their expensive people productions to ss.?

A lot of quality content is now going mostly to Adobe or exclusive to Getty premium.

And both Adobe and Getty have large exclusive collections, getty with real photos, adobe mostly with ai.

Millions of files ss simply does not have.

They still have the largest video collection especially with the p5 exclusive collection. Also editorial is still good.

But if Adobe or Getty ever decide they also want to become great with video and make a real push promoting it, how long will clients keep buying from ss.

And how long until those 60% exclusive royalties on ss disappear?

Exciting news is coming, just a matter of time.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: stocker2011 on November 20, 2024, 06:35
I guess the worst is still yet to come, hold onto your hats.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Lizard on November 20, 2024, 07:09
In bad times It's always nice to take a look at their stock price, especially the jump in 2021 at our expense and then...that beautiful slider  ;D
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Mimi the Cat on November 20, 2024, 11:05
It is unclear why the authors' income has decreased. It seems that buyers are leaving Shutterstock, but why.

My subscription sales started disappearing back in July this month next to nothing.

Single and others going for 10 to 15 cents.

SS are a ghost of what they used to be.


Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: dbvirago on November 25, 2024, 18:23
It is unclear why the authors' income has decreased. It seems that buyers are leaving Shutterstock, but why.

My subscription sales started disappearing back in July this month next to nothing.

Single and others going for 10 to 15 cents.

SS are a ghost of what they used to be.

Went from 75% of my stock income to 15%, then they decided to reject everything. I think AI is running management now.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: stocker2011 on November 26, 2024, 08:39
I have to rant again,

November is shaping up to be one of my worst ever at SS.

All the algorithm wants to do is sell just one of my videos, it's bizarre.

Adobe frequently sells both my new and old vids, while recognizing the better ones which sell even more.

The weighting at SS is definitely off. All it needs is a small adjustment and it could make such a difference, so frustrating.

What's the point in uploading more content there?
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: gnirtS on November 26, 2024, 09:20
It is unclear why the authors' income has decreased. It seems that buyers are leaving Shutterstock, but why.

My subscription sales started disappearing back in July this month next to nothing.

Single and others going for 10 to 15 cents.

SS are a ghost of what they used to be.

My port has moved from about 85% sub sales to 75% "single" sales of a similar value.

From that i guess they have fewer subscription buyers than before.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: zeljkok on November 26, 2024, 13:59

My port has moved from about 85% sub sales to 75% "single" sales of a similar value.

From that i guess they have fewer subscription buyers than before.

Mine as well, even more than 75%.  Who knows what they did with their licensing model.  At the end it doesn't really matter,  end $ is similar which is the only thing that really matters to us.

Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Jaggy on November 27, 2024, 13:19
I have to rant again,

November is shaping up to be one of my worst ever at SS.

All the algorithm wants to do is sell just one of my videos, it's bizarre.

Adobe frequently sells both my new and old vids, while recognizing the better ones which sell even more.

The weighting at SS is definitely off. All it needs is a small adjustment and it could make such a difference, so frustrating.

What's the point in uploading more content there?

Historically, November is a slow month for me at SS. However, compared to November 2023, sales for this November are up by 47% and revenue is up by 40% and still a few days to go.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: TonyD on December 24, 2024, 19:35
Hasn't been worth uploading to SS for ages now because new photos just aren't selling, I just get repeat DLs for the same old photos often for 10c but not all the time. adobe on the other hand has improved certainly this year since I could upload brand editorial. I got more money some months on AS than SS despite having less than half the number of images on there. Same I cannot earn more at this kind of thing because I cannot get a normal day job due to my eyesight problem. They even ignore my education I had in the past.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: DaLiu on December 25, 2024, 10:56
Hasn't been worth uploading to SS for ages now because new photos just aren't selling,

You can speak for yourself, the new photos are selling very good if you produce the right quality, my downloads doubled this year compared with last year on SS and the new material is selling very well for me.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Uncle Pete on December 25, 2024, 12:57
Hasn't been worth uploading to SS for ages now because new photos just aren't selling,

You can speak for yourself, the new photos are selling very good if you produce the right quality, my downloads doubled this year compared with last year on SS and the new material is selling very well for me.

I find some of each. New photos that catch on, do just as well as the old.

Also the easy sales for new photos, aren't what they used to be. But that's because instead of being one new photo in thousands, for that day, I'd be one new in hundreds of thousands. Same thing for competition. When the agencies had 50 million images, we could sell more. Now they have 500 Million. Logically, nothing will sell as many or as much.

But you're right, something new, top quality, will eventually sell.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: zeljkok on December 25, 2024, 15:37
I don't think there is special distinction between "new" and "old" photos on SS.  It's demand and downloads.  When a "new" photo catches up, it gets higher and higher.  I uploaded this shot fairly recently and for some reason really took off on SS,  multiple downloads almost daily - while on others, incl. Adobe, barely gets a sniff

(https://www.shutterstock.com/shutterstock/photos/2475444311/display_1500/stock-photo-dinosaur-skeleton-bones-in-sand-near-moqui-cave-paleontology-museum-in-southern-utah-us-2475444311.jpg)
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: gnirtS on December 25, 2024, 20:49
The last few months new stuff appears to be selling far more than it was prior to that for a long time so i suspect something changed.
Ive had a few images take off including one that now seems to be a daily seller (for no clear reason that i can see, its average at best).  I havent seen that for a new image for several years.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: TonyD on December 26, 2024, 13:02
RSM Subscription   Dec.01, 2024   -   Subscription Plan   $0.005   $0 (0%)   $0.005

Does anyone know how much this is on Depositphotos?
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: zeljkok on December 26, 2024, 13:12
The last few months new stuff appears to be selling far more than it was prior to that for a long time so i suspect something changed.
Ive had a few images take off including one that now seems to be a daily seller (for no clear reason that i can see, its average at best).  I havent seen that for a new image for several years.

This largely matches my experience on SS.   Dec '24 is already more than double than Dec '23,  most months as well.  Basically back to "pre 10 cents" level.  Still trailing Adobe though
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: gnirtS on December 27, 2024, 08:52
Im way down on Dec 2023 but that was because i had several highly unusual $900 sales.  Take those off and on average yes its better.

(But still 50% or so what it was in 2022 to 2017).
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: stocker2011 on January 13, 2025, 08:31
Tap on Tap off.

2025 appears to be following the same trend as 2024, tap turns on for the 1st week then they turn it off again for the rest of the month.

Every single month it's the same pattern for me.




 
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: yuriy on February 11, 2025, 19:43
shutterstock sales have been pathetic lately, are others seeing the same thing?  adobe is currently 3x for me in feb, same thing in jan.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: stocker2011 on February 11, 2025, 20:47
For my CGI video port it's just a downward spiral at SS, breaking new records every month.

Adobe Stock seems to be maintaining but not as good as it used to be. istock is the only one that has seen an improvement since late last year.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: DaLiu on February 12, 2025, 02:52
I have a mix portfolio with images and videos but this month I see a big downfall in video sales, volum of sales for images is ok for this month but RPD is lower than expected.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Bauman on February 12, 2025, 03:52
Unfortunately I agree with DaLiu and Stocker2011.

I don't have video, but my images on SS are hitting their lowest point as RPD. This February only $0.39. In 2024 it was $0.75.

The number of sales on the other hand is always good. It seems that the high-priced sales have disappeared. And this is a big problem for full-time people like me.

Also because Adobe is weak and does not recover what I lose on SS. Even on Adobe the RPD is down.

The total RPD of February after 12 days is $0.59. The lowest month in over 15 years of stock.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: cruiser on February 13, 2025, 06:04
Same here - I have the feeling that we are experiencing the melt down of the whole microstock industry.
The fact that Shutterstock is now merging with iStock only confirms my impression....
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Brasilnut on February 13, 2025, 06:55
Same here - I have the feeling that we are experiencing the melt down of the whole microstock industry.
The fact that Shutterstock is now merging with iStock only confirms my impression....

For me, both volumes and average prices are at 10-year lows. But then again I'm not uploading much new stuff to micros so that may be a factor.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Bauman on February 13, 2025, 09:32
My February RPD improved today.

From 0.39 it increased to 0.40!  8)
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Jaggy on February 13, 2025, 10:42
For me, volume on Shutterstock is pretty good and well ahead of this point in 2024. RPD, however, is poor so far and well behind 2024. So plenty of low value sales and I need a few higher value ones to pull the RPD up. But early days still.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: cascoly on February 13, 2025, 14:07
For me, volume on Shutterstock is pretty good and well ahead of this point in 2024. RPD, however, is poor so far and well behind 2024. So plenty of low value sales and I need a few higher value ones to pull the RPD up. But early days still.

why care about RPD?

would you rather have an RPD of .90 and sales of $50 or an RPD of .25 and $100 sales?
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: pancaketom on February 13, 2025, 17:55
What really matters in the end is the bottom line.

RPD is one way of understanding changes to the bottom line - double your images and double your sales but bottom line is unchanged - it probably is because the RPD has dropped. If you double your images and sales number doesn't change but RPD is the same - it is probably due to falling sales per image and not RPD.

Of course, in reality sales per image are dropping along with RPD for most contributors.

RPE - Return Per Effort would be a better metric, but also a lot harder to see and chart.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: cascoly on February 13, 2025, 19:43
What really matters in the end is the bottom line.

RPD is one way of understanding changes to the bottom line - double your images and double your sales but bottom line is unchanged - it probably is because the RPD has dropped. If you double your images and sales number doesn't change but RPD is the same - it is probably due to falling sales per image and not RPD. ....

but the RPD is irrelevant - your examples are correct, but cherry picked - my AS RPD  has always been 2-3x SS RPD but SS h as consistently produced 2x the $ which is the only metric I'm concerned with.

i submit same images to both, but many fewer accepted by AS since they don't take editorial (i do try to not upload editorials to AS but sometimes it's just easier to l et them reject them, since AS often accepts images (cafes, crowd scenes, people in bkgd ) that SS considers editorial

bottom line - SS pays more bills than AS, no matter what the RPD says. everything else is window dressing & bragging rights

Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: yuriy on February 13, 2025, 22:12
you're right, rpd by itself doesn't matter but rpd times volume is your bottom line.  for me and i think many others volume is a little higher on shutterstock but the rpd is so low that the bottom line is much less $ than adobe.  i think we can all agree that $ in the bank is what matters at the end of the day.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Jaggy on February 14, 2025, 10:00
RPD matters because it represents the average price that you sell your work for. Microstock is a business and, in a business, you can't work out if you are making money if you don't know what your sales price is.

Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: cascoly on February 14, 2025, 16:13
RPD matters because it represents the average price that you sell your work for. Microstock is a business and, in a business, you can't work out if you are making money if you don't know what your sales price is.
you need more than sales price to determine if you're making money.  again, my AS RPD is 2-3x that of SS but SS brings in more cash , often 2x or more.
so reporting JUST RPD is meaningless - at best, it's only half the equation - you need to consider actual income = RPD * sales.   
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Uncle Pete on February 14, 2025, 16:43
RPD matters because it represents the average price that you sell your work for. Microstock is a business and, in a business, you can't work out if you are making money if you don't know what your sales price is.
you need more than sales price to determine if you're making money.  again, my AS RPD is 2-3x that of SS but SS brings in more cash , often 2x or more.
so reporting JUST RPD is meaningless - at best, it's only half the equation - you need to consider actual income = RPD * sales.

Or actual income is = Total pay from sales minus expenses?  :)  Or $$$ - Cost of doing business!

RPD, RPI, acceptance rate, how many images, sales per image, sales % of portfolio and pretty much anything else someone can come up with, (oh yeah almost forgot Position) is just a way to see how images or agencies are preforming. You said it, the only real answer in the end is, how much did I put in the bank. (or spend on scotch and more camera gear)

Hardly anything ever gets to the bank.

I picked this up last week. A Loupedeck+
(https://i.postimg.cc/LXbdfQX8/loupedeck-websize.jpg)
Not sure why, except it seemed like a good idea.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Roscoe on February 14, 2025, 17:03
RPD matters because it represents the average price that you sell your work for. Microstock is a business and, in a business, you can't work out if you are making money if you don't know what your sales price is.
Well, if you look at it that way, RPD is as important as volume. Both go together in terms of earnings. And earnings in relation to effort is what really counts if you see it as a business. In other words, how much do I earn at an agency against which effort. In that regard, submitting to Adobe or Shutterstock is more or less comparable. iStock requires more effort Motion Array even more.

But of course, there are emotions involved too. Selling your content via microstock agencies is per definition degrading your work. We all hate the 10 cents at Shutterstock, but are the 38 cents at Adobe so much better in terms of valuing your work? Still pennies, and the only way to get something out of it is having volume.

In the end, what keeps us going, is the payout at the end of the month. Businesswise, I don't care whether it's done via high volumes on low RPD's or high RPD's on low volumes. Emotionally, I prefer higher RPD's on lower volumes, but then again, is it really a difference in terms of getting treated respectfully or getting recognition for your work? Not for me. If you want your work to be valued emotionally, then Microstock is not the right place for you.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: cascoly on February 14, 2025, 21:24

...
Well, if you look at it that way, RPD is as important as volume. Both go together in terms of
earnings. And earnings in relation to effort is what really counts if you see it as a business. In other words, how much do I earn at an ency against which effort. In that regard, submitting to Adobe or Shutterstock is more or less comparable. iStock requires more effort Motion Array even more. ...


again, RPD is worthless as a measure of usefulness or performance- my RPD from alamy is $30 but actual % of my income is < 5%. similarly, pond RPD has varied from $2 to $15 but overall income is again < 10% since actual sales (ie INCOME) is just a blip (tho welcome) on monthly sales

if RPD were important i'd be concentrating on alamy & pond rather than AS & SS which provide 90% of my income.  i heartily endorse those who make their decisions based on RPD since it pays for my additional international travel!
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Uncle Pete on February 15, 2025, 13:16

...
Well, if you look at it that way, RPD is as important as volume. Both go together in terms of
earnings. And earnings in relation to effort is what really counts if you see it as a business. In other words, how much do I earn at an ency against which effort. In that regard, submitting to Adobe or Shutterstock is more or less comparable. iStock requires more effort Motion Array even more. ...

again, RPD is worthless as a measure of usefulness or performance- my RPD from alamy is $30 but actual % of my income is < 5%. similarly, pond RPD has varied from $2 to $15 but overall income is again < 10% since actual sales (ie INCOME) is just a blip (tho welcome) on monthly sales

if RPD were important i'd be concentrating on alamy & pond rather than AS & SS which provide 90% of my income.  i heartily endorse those who make their decisions based on RFD since it pays for my additional international travel!

But I am concentrating on Alamy?  ;D Yes, of course and this is what it all comes down to in these threads. Alamy has a wonderful RPD IF someone gets a download. SSTK has the worst RPD but for many had higher volume. (that's ended now, from what I see) Adobe has the best mix of downloads and RPD for many people. iStock is a mystery. For what used to be the top agency, they went downhill, until (for me) they are doing slightly better than DT.

Wirestock, for all others, all the agencies where I don't want to have an account, I only have 500 images or so, and I make more there than IS or DT. The RPD is scary bad, but the all others, and the $30 minimum, I get paid, makes up for that. I may have never made payout at 123RF or Envato or DP, but just by having the old collection, on WS, I get "Free Money" from all the deadbeat agencies.

The other problem and I've said this for years, all agencies don't accept the same images, some sell different types better than others. I sell many more Illustrations on Adobe than SSTK. IS seems to sell anything, but the problem is, low RPD and low volume. Alamy is all kinds of things that none of the previous do well on.

Anyone who's comparing RPD, RPI or pick your stat, and they have a different number of images, different images or video, different styles, and then compares agency A to Agency B, isn't using comparable data. And especially when someone says, SSTK is much better than Adobe, and someone else says, Adobe is much better than SSTK, the point is, we don't have the same images, subjects, or numbers. My numbers are nearly worthless to anyone else, and visa versa.

SSTK 5,500 images, RPD for 2024 was $0.65
Adobe 1,041 images, RPD for 2024 was $0.87 And total I made 3 times more money from Adobe

bottom line - SS pays more bills than AS, no matter what the RPD says. everything else is window dressing & bragging rights

And yes, I agree, except Adobe pays more bills than SSTK, and all the letters and numbers are mostly, after the fact, observations, that don't really change sales? It's like looking at the weather. Watching doesn't change it.

Besides the stats and bragging and watching, the most important part of this, for anyone who's actually trying to make some money, isn't RPD, RPI, or position, rank or any of the other junk stats. The heart of the business is, what sells the most, what sells best, and where. Then recognizing the market demands, and creating more of that kind of material.

ps I just passed 7,000 images on Alamy. I expect I'll make more money this year, than when I had 5,000 images last year. Of course my expectations don't mean anything to the buyers. They only care about their needs.  ;D

One Alamy DL is equal to an entire month of iStock. I just need to get up to one DL a month on Alamy, to have things balance. Otherwise 1,087 images on IS is making me more than 7,000+ images on Alamy. $$$ to DLs I'll take Alamy over IS for now.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: gnirtS on February 16, 2025, 04:15
Have to agree with the above.
My January SS wasn't too bad even with the levels reset (not as good as before but better than any Jan under the "new" system.

Feb im seeing the same download numbers but despite having levelled up, ALL the sales are tiny.  Im under half the RPD for last month.

Absolutely everything is a low value SOD or Sub.  I have "sold" 2 videos though.... at $0.25 each.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Bauman on February 16, 2025, 12:57
Have to agree with the above.
My January SS wasn't too bad even with the levels reset (not as good as before but better than any Jan under the "new" system.

Feb im seeing the same download numbers but despite having levelled up, ALL the sales are tiny.  Im under half the RPD for last month.

Absolutely everything is a low value SOD or Sub.  I have "sold" 2 videos though.... at $0.25 each.

Only SS (photo, no video)

Jan 2025 RPD $0.57
Feb 2025 RPD $0.41 (up to today)

RPD 2024 $0.75
Best month Jun 2024 RPD $1.25
Worst month Feb 2024 RPD $0.45

February is going terribly for me too. But it happened last year too. It was the worst month of 2024.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: gnirtS on February 16, 2025, 21:06
Interesting - im seeing about $0.44 RPD for Feb as well (vs 0.77 or so for Jan) and thats despite level increases.  For context December was $1.22 and November was $1.05.  Last Feb was $0.78.

Most i know seem to have RPD dropping to the low 40c area this month.  People not renewing subscriptions or packages?  Another killer SS giveaway or sale?
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Uncle Pete on February 17, 2025, 13:30

...
Well, if you look at it that way, RPD is as important as volume. Both go together in terms of
earnings. And earnings in relation to effort is what really counts if you see it as a business. In other words, how much do I earn at an ency against which effort. In that regard, submitting to Adobe or Shutterstock is more or less comparable. iStock requires more effort Motion Array even more. ...


again, RPD is worthless as a measure of usefulness or performance- my RPD from alamy is $30 but actual % of my income is < 5%. similarly, pond RPD has varied from $2 to $15 but overall income is again < 10% since actual sales (ie INCOME) is just a blip (tho welcome) on monthly sales

if RPD were important i'd be concentrating on alamy & pond rather than AS & SS which provide 90% of my income.  i heartily endorse those who make their decisions based on RPD since it pays for my additional international travel!

Here's what counts:
(https://i.postimg.cc/CL5rFp7m/money-counting-money.gif)

This is all that stats are, most of the time:
(https://i.postimg.cc/wMZPm9Q5/matrix-code.gif)
People are worshiping the stat Oracle, instead of the money and the images. Are we in business for money or for stats?

The only way to divine future sales is by carefully studying WHAT sells, and where, not what numbers things sell for, rank, position or trying to game the algorithm for better sales. scientia et sapientia
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Bauman on February 17, 2025, 13:46

People are worshiping the stat Oracle, instead of the money and the images. Are we in business for money or for stats?


I think that to understand WHAT sells, WHERE sells, and HOW sells you need only one thing: numbers. Data analysis.

50% of what I earned is due to my images' quality and 50% from data analysis. Every type of data is important for something.

I think I sell much more than you, I have almost 20 years of experience in this business.

If you do it as a hobby and I do it for work, it's probably because you haven't taken care of the analysis of agency sales, your competitors' sales and the sales of your images. In addition to not improving the quality of your images.  8)


Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: yuriy on February 17, 2025, 18:59
i heard you guys like metrics, well i've got a new one:

days of less than $1 in sales. 

adobe so far in feb had 2 while shutterstock has 8.  definitely winning. 

(yes i know one day of $10000 sales is better than 9999 days of $1 sales but it's not a trend i'm enjoying, i haven't had a bigger sale on ss in months anyway)
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Uncle Pete on February 18, 2025, 11:52

People are worshiping the stat Oracle, instead of the money and the images. Are we in business for money or for stats?


I think that to understand WHAT sells, WHERE sells, and HOW sells you need only one thing: numbers. Data analysis.

50% of what I earned is due to my images' quality and 50% from data analysis. Every type of data is important for something.

I think I sell much more than you, I have almost 20 years of experience in this business.

If you do it as a hobby and I do it for work, it's probably because you haven't taken care of the analysis of agency sales, your competitors' sales and the sales of your images. In addition to not improving the quality of your images.  8)

What sells and where, and analysis of that, is the answer.  8)

My point is about all that statistics, RPD, RPI, Position, Rank, where am I in the search, which don't do anything, we can't control and are only something to look at, after the fact.

Of course, good research, better images, knowing what sells and having more of that, is the right way to do this as a business. I hope you understand the difference? Stats don't go into the bank, they don't pay for more gear, they are just a distraction from making products and actually earning more.

Let me put it this way. If you watch an egg, rolling off a table, and falling to the floor, does that change what happens when it hits the ground? That's what all the stat watching does. Nothing to stop or change anything, it's just watching as things fall and break.

Watching what images sell and where and for how much, makes for interesting research into, what to make more of and where to sell it. But that's about content, markets, specifics. It's useful for predicting the future and building more sales and income, for the future.

Does that make more sense of what I'm trying to say?

Yes, it's a hobby for me. I try to make more and earn more, but it's not my living. If I was going to find some gig business, or tell someone else how to make some side money, Microstock would not be on my list. Maybe in 2010 it would have. But with the conditions, the market, the pay/commission, the competition from AI, theives and the image factories in third world countries? Nope.

I wish the best for everyone here, success and better earnings, but watching a ship sink or a building burn down, won't change what's happening, in fact. Stats will just point out, how sad it is to still work, upload and hope that I can make some spare change from Stock Photos. What happened to residual income? Building a larger portfolio, so I'd make more money over a period of time? How about that stat?  ;D (it's the egg rolling off the edge of the table and V = gt, gravity makes the egg accelerate and smash into tiny bits, and a puddle, on the floor)

RPD income per license, RPI Income per image, total sales per agency, vs lower earnings, lower sales, less commissions = The Microstock Egg, falling, while we watch, and make notes, all kinds of stats, which aren't going to change anything in the end.

Yes, make better, smarter, more images, more things the buyers want. I agree with the people who look for needs and things that aren't covered well enough. I agree that niche images, are actually going to bring in some fair return for the effort, some of the time. Research and knowledge are the answer, to the future, and moving forward. Looking backwards is a waste of time.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Bauman on February 18, 2025, 16:25
@Uncle Pete

I believe that all these numbers are useful to guide strategies.

Profit is a consequence of strategies.

I'll give you some examples.

I have always sold a lot on Shutterstock.

From my numbers I saw that Shutterstock's algorithm rewarded my very high quality photos. My best. With 10% of my photos (usually my best) I made 90% of my earnings.

So my strategy was: few photos, but they must be the very best.

I then made comparisons with the numbers of other contributors (these are similar numbers, useful for the example).

Me: 5,000 images $2000 on SS and $500 on AS
Others: 20,000 images $1000 on SS and $700 on AS

From here I see that Adobe Stock rewards quantity more and quality less. (Please note: this is for my portfolio compared to others in my niche)

Then I see that Shutterstock loses customers and Adobe gains them and I lose positions in the ranking.

So a year ago I changed my strategy, I increased the photos and worked a little less on retouching. My images have to be "good enough". And after a few months I'm getting my first results and my ranking (and my earnings on AS) has improved by 1500 positions.

The RPD can then be used to establish how many images you have to send per month to achieve your goal.

If my goal is $3000 per month I try to produce a set number of images each month based on the RPD. Every month I check how much the RPD of the images sent was in the last year or in the last 6 months.

Maybe you see me get angry if the RPD is not what I hoped for, because I had set the goal with a higher number. And this forces me to shoot more and work harder.

And this helps me to verify if a subject I photographed is better than another, to continue photographing it again or stop photographing it.

The more accurate the data analysis, the fewer mistakes you risk making.

Sorry for any mistakes, but it's Google Translate's fault  ;)
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Pacesetter on February 19, 2025, 19:59
Wow check this out... SSTK share price on 19 February 2025 (today) closed at just $26.96.

This is the lowest since 15 February 2013 - 12 years ago!

See image below and check their other periods at www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=sstk (http://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=sstk) where every period is in the red.

Clearly their poor treatment of contributors has not helped Shutterstock Inc and when they turned off a lot of contributors, they just up and walked out the door... and a lot of customers walked out with them.

And here we are today with falling sales, commissions and earnings, and the terminal decline in SSTK share price.

   

   
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: cascoly on February 19, 2025, 22:32
Wow check this out... SSTK share price on 19 February 2025 (today) closed at just $26.96.

This is the lowest since 15 February 2013 - 12 years ago!

See image below and check their other periods at [url=http://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=sstk]www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=sstk[/url] ([url]http://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=sstk[/url]) where every period is in the red.

Clearly their poor treatment of contributors has not helped Shutterstock Inc and when they turned off a lot of contributors, they just up and walked out the door... and a lot of customers walked out with them.

And here we are today with falling sales, commissions and earnings, and the terminal decline in SSTK share price.

   

 

no  support for any of that - if low payments to artists was a factor, would expect the stock to rise!  many other factors at work, none related to the small number of artists who have withdrawn -  competition, rise of aigen which SS has refused to accept, decreased demand... etc
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Pacesetter on February 19, 2025, 22:57
Wow check this out... SSTK share price on 19 February 2025 (today) closed at just $26.96.

This is the lowest since 15 February 2013 - 12 years ago!

See image below and check their other periods at [url=http://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=sstk]www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=sstk[/url] ([url]http://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=sstk[/url]) where every period is in the red.

Clearly their poor treatment of contributors has not helped Shutterstock Inc and when they turned off a lot of contributors, they just up and walked out the door... and a lot of customers walked out with them.

And here we are today with falling sales, commissions and earnings, and the terminal decline in SSTK share price.
 

no  support for any of that - if low payments to artists was a factor, would expect the stock to rise!  many other factors at work, none related to the small number of artists who have withdrawn -  competition, rise of aigen which SS has refused to accept, decreased demand... etc


I don't want your support anyway, with your rantings at fellow members discussing their microstock data (on a microstock forum at that) I have no respect for your opinions and so I generally avoid talking directly to you.

Falling sales, commissions and earnings experienced by Shutterstock contributors is a direct result of falling sales, sales prices and revenue coming into the company, all of which is the result of their poor management. It's not rocket science.

Look, I didn't even mention 'RPD' in my posts!   

Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: gnirtS on February 20, 2025, 20:47
Clearly their poor treatment of contributors has not helped Shutterstock Inc and when they turned off a lot of contributors,

I dont see anything to suggest thats a factor.  Treatment of contributors is irrelevant, they already have a big enough library and still have plenty of existing and new contributors (mainly stolen and ai content but thats another matter).

What is hurting them are their packages, pricing and customer facing service and policies.  Lots of people are signing up, want 4 free images, get those (so contributors lose out) but then they're being stung with small print 100s of dollars cancellation fees so go elsewhere.

Their market are people signing up for a few free images with no intention of staying enrolled.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Uncle Pete on February 21, 2025, 11:53
@Uncle Pete

I believe that all these numbers are useful to guide strategies.

The more accurate the data analysis, the fewer mistakes you risk making.

Sorry for any mistakes, but it's Google Translate's fault  ;)

Guiding strategy is what I was talking about, that is good and knowing the market, the trends an demands.

Watching some unreliable, inconsistent, unexplained "Position" that's only relative to others downloads (maybe?) that doesn't match our actual downloads or anything else, is a waste of time. Position is relative and only compares us to, others, where we don't know what they have uploaded or what they sold. The data is just a number.

There is no accurate data to analyze.

"I believe that all these numbers are useful to guide strategies."

If you are looking at what sells, and where and for how much. Yes. The only way to see ahead.

Any errors are all mine, and I know I'm the one who made them.  ;)
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Uncle Pete on February 21, 2025, 12:31
Actually one striking reason the stock has fallen is pretty simple. The Merger, makes it a dead corporation. No future, no gains, no potential.

The Merger terms: Shutterstock investors will receive $28.85 per share in cash for each share they own. However, Shutterstock shareholders can elect to receive GETY stock, or a combination of cash and stock as an alternative.

I could understand if someone paid the fees for buying the stock and the cost was under $28,85 a share. Small gains, but no point, because the stock is going to be deactivated. Maybe people are dumping their SSTK shares, because they don't want Getty stock? And I didn't find the cash and stock offer.

If the value of the Getty stock plus the cash, is $26.11 which is what SSTK is listed at right now, that all makes perfect sense.

Should I buy all the SSTK I can afford at $26 and then take the $28.85 a share and pay the short term capitol gains tax? A little help on this: Short-term capital gains tax is a tax on profits from the sale of an asset held for one year or less. Short-term capital gains are taxed according to your ordinary income tax bracket: 10%, 12%, 22%, 24%, 32%, 35% or 37%.

So I buy SSTK for $26.11, 1,000 shares @ $26.11 for $26,110 plus the brokerage fees. If there's a merger, I get $28,850 for a profit of $2,740 then I pay 25% income tax, and I made $2000 profit for risking my $26,110 on the bet that the merger will go through, as planned.

That's why the stock is at $26.11 right now. Potential investment profit and loss, nothing else. Someone with $27,000 to risk, might not think that $2,000 is enough profit?
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: YadaYadaYada on February 21, 2025, 17:26
Through a six-year agreement, Shutterstock, Inc. (NYSE:SSTK) strengthened its partnership with OpenAI. As of July 2023, the company became the major provider of high-quality training data for OpenAI’s models, demonstrating its commitment to leveraging AI technologies in developing its platform. Aiming at sustainability, the company has announced a merger with Getty Images in January 2025. It claims that the resulting expansion in the stock photo libraries will provide better competition against AI-driven image creation tools.

SS is a major provider of training data to the main competitor for microstock, while merging with Getty to better defend against the loss of business to AI. SS is paying a dividend of .33 March 6th. Watch the price on March 7th.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: yuriy on March 02, 2025, 17:27
speaking of ai, i haven't had a "contributor fund" payment in ages.  have others been getting anything?  ss has been terrible for me for 3 months now.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: pancaketom on March 02, 2025, 17:43
speaking of ai, i haven't had a "contributor fund" payment in ages.  have others been getting anything?  ss has been terrible for me for 3 months now.


Didn't they offer the exciting news of only paying 15% for AI data training? Maybe 0% is even more exciting.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Bauman on March 26, 2025, 05:03
In the last few days a lot of sales on SS, but almost all in the range of $0.10-$0.15 (level 5).

In the last 3 days SS sales are 3 times those of Adobe for me.

In this moment Adobe can't grow anymore, SS sells a lot but the RPD is low, high priced sales have disappeared. Not a good situation.

I was hoping that SS would lose market share to Adobe (which has the highest RPD), but it's not happening as I expected.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: DaLiu on March 26, 2025, 05:18
In the last few days a lot of sales on SS, but almost all in the range of $0.10-$0.15 (level 5).

In the last 3 days SS sales are 3 times those of Adobe for me.

In this moment Adobe can't grow anymore, SS sells a lot but the RPD is low, high priced sales have disappeared. Not a good situation.

I was hoping that SS would lose market share to Adobe (which has the highest RPD), but it's not happening as I expected.

Very true but yesterday was a good day for me at least on SS, I had so many of these days last year, lets hope they are coming back this year.

Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Bauman on March 26, 2025, 05:26

Very true but yesterday was a good day for me at least on SS, I had so many of these days last year, lets hope they are coming back this year.

I'm happy for you!  ;)

I had it last week one day with earnings > $100... but that was pretty much the only one this month. I was used to having at least one every week.
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: cascoly on March 26, 2025, 14:18
In the last few days a lot of sales on SS, but almost all in the range of $0.10-$0.15 (level 5).

In the last 3 days SS sales are 3 times those of Adobe for me.

In this moment Adobe can't grow anymore, SS sells a lot but the RPD is low, high priced sales have disappeared. Not a good situation.

I was hoping that SS would lose market share to Adobe (which has the highest RPD), but it's not happening as I expected.

for me, too, SS sales are 2-3x AS. but 3 days isn't enough to draw any conclusions as the market is random - however, my SS RPD has been around .7 over them last year, while SS is around .45 (showing high priced sales still happen every month)
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: xbrchx on March 26, 2025, 14:28
Few weeks ago I got hit by my best selling single image download ever (15 years on SS).
Number was so high it knocked me out of my shoes ;D
Not sure am I allowed to disclose amount here, but it was 25x higher than my previous best selling photo on SS (which was decade ago).
And what was really odd to me it was an editorial image sale.

I did some research of new product line, and find out this new product - selling editorial as commercial license with Asset Assurance, which offer the legal coverage for commercial use of editorial photos if I got it right. I guess my sale was one of this, and it is really expensive to license photo with this license. I have only few editorials in my portfolio, but will probably upload more after this.

Anyone had similar experience with high revenue editorials?
Title: Re: Shutterstock is an embarassment
Post by: Graphic_Designer on April 20, 2025, 12:11
I create graphic videos...2-4 years back when I searched "Green Screen", I have seen 10-15 videos in first 3 pages of "Popular" section. Because they sold well... My top video sold for 450 times in 4 years, and few more sold more than 200 times, and many videos sold for 100+ times...

And everytime Shutterstock comes with worst changes... They changed algorithm, and I am not seeing my videos anywhere in first 10-15 pages of popular section...Then there is no surprise that my sales and earnings reduced by 60-75% in last 1-2 years...

And the worst thing is that, I am seeing the videos of newbies in popular section, whose portfolios don't even have 100-200 videos...And seeing many thieves videos in popular section who stole effects from apps and softwares...

From $900-$1100 a month, shutterstock decreased to $200-$300...
on the other hand from $150-$200 a month, adobe stock increased to $500-$600 a month, in last 2-3 years.