Author Topic: Shutterstock providing images to Fine Art America (Read 3526 times)

dirkr · « **on:** August 04, 2019, 13:50 »

Searching for my images in use today I stumbled across the following:

fineartamerica.com/featured/view-from-marshalls-beach-on-the-golden-dirkr.html?product=canvas-print

Scroll down on the page, there it says:

Artist's Description

View from Marshalls Beach on the Golden Gate Bridge in San Francisco, California, USA on a cloudless evening.Image provided by Shutterstock.
About Dirkr

Shutterstock is a leading global technology company offering a creative platform for high-quality assets, tools and services. The company licenses images, video, music, and editorial assets -- as well as custom content tailored to a brand’s needs. Shutterstock offers a variety of plans for individuals, teams, and enterprise customers as well as creative editing and collaboration capabilities. The Shutterstock portfolio of brands includes Bigstock, Offset, PremiumBeat, Rex Features and Shutterstock Custom.

Anybody heard of that before? What kind of license do they sell for that?

This link:

https://fineartamerica.com/profiles/shutterstock.html

shows their profile page on FAA, looks like they have close to 10.000 images on there...

marthamarks · « **Reply #1 on:** August 04, 2019, 14:25 »

Quote from: dirkr on August 04, 2019, 13:50

Anybody heard of that before? What kind of license do they sell for that?

This link:

https://fineartamerica.com/profiles/shutterstock.html

The only thing I can imagine about this that makes sense legally (if not ethically) is that SS is offering these images as prints… and if any one of them sells, SS then pays the artist his/her basic royalty.

Everything over and above that tiny amount would plump up SS's bottom line.

Is any other interpretation possible?

Jo Ann Snover · « **Reply #2 on:** August 04, 2019, 14:34 »

I hadn't heard about this before - thanks for posting. Based on the upload dates, this happened June 19 2019

Basically, Shutterstock is competing with its contributors by selling prints on FAA given they haven't eliminated duplicates with own accounts.

Some of their pricing is lower than my own, some higher. SS has only one of my images in their shop and I have no idea how I'd know if there was a sale via FAA. I'm just taking a wild guess that I'd make less because SS is taking a cut.

I don't remember reading anything about this and I definitely think they should have asked first given FAA is a place where contributors can upload themselves. And SS needs an opt out specifically for this partnership...

In practice, with one image, it's not that big a deal for me, but it might be a huge deal for others. I guess it also means that FAA have given up on their attempts to license images

SS announces its Q2 financial results on Tuesday. Perhaps this deal is another shiny object to distract investors from slowing growth and a collection larded with spam and Associated Press images uploaded by "contributors" who have no rights to those images...

Edited to add that there's a "Shutterstock collection" on art.com too. I did a google search as I remembered seeing the image pop up higher than expected in the last month or so and wondered. A search for Shutterstock there says there are about 18K images (search for Shutterstock to find the images)

angelawaye · « **Reply #3 on:** August 04, 2019, 21:07 »

I had no idea they were doing this. There needs to be an opt out option. One thing that really upsets me on FAA is the watermark issue. Look at this photo
https://fineartamerica.com/featured/flying-pigeon-bird-in-action-isolated-mrs-ya.html

It isn't even visible.

zsooofija · « **Reply #4 on:** August 05, 2019, 06:20 »

Please correct me if I am wrong, but as I read SS TOS, the Standard Image License does not include the right to resale on physical products. What do you think? I am not even sure the EL covers this usage.

Uncle Pete · « **Reply #5 on:** August 05, 2019, 06:53 »

9553 images when I looked, I wonder if I'm competing against myself?

I will say that most of what I have on FAA is not on SS, and I didn't find a way to search for my own via SS. Just wonder if anything is mine and how they picked that collection?

Partner?

steheap · « **Reply #6 on:** August 05, 2019, 07:42 »

I found I had two images in their collection at FAA. For some historic reason, I have a different artist name on Shutterstock - steve heap, than I do on FAA (steven heap) and so I was able to just search on FAA for artist - steve heap. Up popped the two images. Pretty strange choice:
https://fineartamerica.com/art/steve+heap?searchType=artistname

I think SS is really pushing the envelope though. They place the images for sale without licensing them (probably arguing this is marketing usage) and probably pay $25 or so if the print sells. Meanwhile they pick up the rest of the margin. I doubt they ever lose money on a small print so the $25 is variable I would think, but certainly capped. If they upload the same image as I already have, then they are really cannibalizing my sales on FAA and I end up with less money. If they upload a different one (as they have), then I'm in two minds. I would never have uploaded the ones they did, and if they sell, I would quite like the money.

So the issue for me is the duplication with an artists existing work. I think I will keep an eye on this portfolio and if something appears that duplicates one of my better images on FAA, I will delete it from Shutterstock.

Steve

Me · « **Reply #7 on:** August 05, 2019, 07:49 »

So if I have an image on FAA and sell it for $200 with my margin set at 40% I would get $80 plus any additional for framing, etc. If SS have put my image up there as well, priced the same, they would take the $80 and give me what? $25 for an EL - maybe, more likely $0.38 for a sub sale. And if they are pricing at a lower margin than I am then they are more likely to get the sale of my image than I am.

This stinks and if true is a new low, even for SS.

wds · « **Reply #8 on:** August 05, 2019, 08:51 »

I saw some from iStock on FAA

trek · « **Reply #9 on:** August 05, 2019, 09:44 »

They have four of my shots via shutterstock. One of them is already in my FAA portfolio.

FYI: 40x30 art print via me = $67- same 40x30 via shutterstock = $92-

Would like to know what we actually get from a via shutterstock sale.

ShadySue · « **Reply #10 on:** August 05, 2019, 09:47 »

Quote from: wds on August 05, 2019, 08:51

I saw some from iStock on FAA

Have you got a link, please,

marthamarks · « **Reply #11 on:** August 05, 2019, 11:21 »

Quote from: ShadySue on August 05, 2019, 09:47

Quote from: wds on August 05, 2019, 08:51
I saw some from iStock on FAA
Have you got a link, please,

Yes, please. I'm sure many others would like to check that out too.

ShadySue · « **Reply #12 on:** August 05, 2019, 12:07 »

I searched on FAA for iStockphoto as a keyword, it got auto-shortened to iStock and showed these 35 files:
https://fineartamerica.com/art/photographs/istock
Which may not have been submitted by iStock (?)

I searched for iStockphoto as an artist name - again it got shortened to iStock and threw up 0 results.

I searched artist name: Getty and got these 406:
https://fineartamerica.com/art/photographs/getty?searchType=artistname

Searching Getty as a keyword threw up a lot of wholly-owned Getty images, plus a lot of others which had something to do with something Getty, and some historical images etc. Hard to know which, if any, had been uploaded by Getty.

KuriousKat · « **Reply #13 on:** August 05, 2019, 12:10 »

You can search the Shutterstock shop here:

https://fineartamerica.com/profiles/shutterstock/shop?initiatesearch=true

Just put in your name.

I got two hits, one of which is already in my FAA portfolio.

rinderart · « **Reply #14 on:** August 05, 2019, 12:35 »

There are 3 Of My Paintings for sale for $17.00 I HATE FAA Big time. I heard Nothing about this.. we have to do something. My email is Rinderart@aol.com If ya wanna discuss.

Jo Ann Snover · « **Reply #15 on:** August 05, 2019, 13:00 »

Shutterstock's shop is part of FAA "Brands". If you follow the crumb trail back you get to:

https://fineartamerica.com/gallerydirectory.html

Where you can find Getty Images with over 700k items. Some is vintage stuff, but some looks like regular stock and the contributor is named (just like in SS's uploads). Upload dates are in July 2019

https://fineartamerica.com/profiles/gettyimages.html

Some of the images that came to Getty via EyeEm are there too (you can search the collection to see if your stuff is there)

ShadySue · « **Reply #16 on:** August 05, 2019, 13:07 »

Thanks Jo Anne

stockastic · « **Reply #17 on:** August 05, 2019, 14:51 »

I've had photos on FAA for years and sell a couple of prints there every month, occasionally more. At least when I sell one I make some money, as we can set our own markups there.

I found out long ago that the big stock 'agencies' were selling images through POD and that was a big reason I closed all my microstock accounts.

FAA is basically run by one guy, with one interest: increasing his bottom line. He couldn't care less about photographers or artists, and he's not one himself. He never communicates with contributors or responds to complaints. If you're unhappy with the deals he's cut with big 'content' companies, there is absolutely no point in attempting to contact him or his handful of FAA employees; your only choice is to close the microstock accounts.

wds · « **Reply #18 on:** August 05, 2019, 17:37 »

Quote from: ShadySue on August 05, 2019, 09:47

Quote from: wds on August 05, 2019, 08:51
I saw some from iStock on FAA
Have you got a link, please,

I used my iS handle as "artist" on FAA. Try some classic iStock "big hitter" contributors and you will likely see some on FAA.

ShadySue · « **Reply #19 on:** August 05, 2019, 17:52 »

Quote from: wds on August 05, 2019, 17:37

Quote from: ShadySue on August 05, 2019, 09:47
Quote from: wds on August 05, 2019, 08:51
I saw some from iStock on FAA
Have you got a link, please,

I used my iS handle as "artist" on FAA. Try some classic iStock "big hitter" contributors and you will likely see some on FAA.

Oh, there are eight of mine. I'll need to see if they clash with my images already selling as prints there. Quite a random selection, I can't work out from the eight what the criteria might have been. Thanks.

Added:
Oh wow, the Getty prices are sevaral times higher than mine! Good luck with that!!!

1 photo the same, and 2 other photos I've got up on FAA, but with heavy filtering.

OTOH on a specific search with 'only' 160 hits.my photo is second bottom and the Getty identical photo is in top place (when I'm not logged in)
Ho hum. 'Special deal'.

tdezenzio · « **Reply #20 on:** August 05, 2019, 18:38 »

I found one of my images. When I clicked on it, below my image it says more from this artist. However, none of those images are mine.

ShadySue · « **Reply #21 on:** August 05, 2019, 18:40 »

Quote from: tdezenzio on August 05, 2019, 18:38

I found one of my images. When I clicked on it, below my image it says more from this artist. However, none of those images are mine.

Indeed, because they're taking you to the Getty Collection. It's not about you, it's about Getty.

Anja_Kaiser · « **Reply #22 on:** August 17, 2019, 10:19 »

I'm unable to search art.com for my own images, because they closed their service to outside of the US (I'm in Europe.), but a fellow colleague of ours just found out that they actually license our imagery to Walmart. In other words: Walmart provides the entire US with crappy posters and the copyright holders don't even know whether or not they get compensated at all. What a nice move from Shutterstock ...

Uncle Pete · « **Reply #23 on:** August 17, 2019, 11:29 »

Quote from: Anja_Kaiser on August 17, 2019, 10:19

I'm unable to search art.com for my own images, because they closed their service to outside of the US (I'm in Europe.), but a fellow colleague of ours just found out that they actually license our imagery to Walmart. In other words: Walmart provides the entire US with crappy posters and the copyright holders don't even know whether or not they get compensated at all. What a nice move from Shutterstock ...

https://forums.submit.shutterstock.com/topic/96132-do-walmart-and-ss-have-a-contract/?tab=comments#comment-1725391

Shortest version I can come up with, art.com has a partner agreement with SS and Walmart bought art.com last year. https://www.engadget.com/2018/12/07/walmart-acquires-art-com/

So yes there are some images available to Walmart, through art.com. I'm fairly sure, like other partners, who offer prints, wallpaper, shirts POD, we don't get a commission until something is actually sold. So yes our images are there, to potentially get a sale from art.com / Walmart. We only get money when there's a sale.

I suppose some will see this as, Walmart getting to use our images free, as advertising, buy like any other stock site, displaying something is the only way to allow a buyer to see it! If buyers can't see them, we don't get commissions.

Yes, our images from SS are available from art.com and therefore from Walmart.

foliootter · « **Reply #24 on:** August 18, 2019, 16:19 »

Does anyone know if other agencies follow this same practices ? This de-values our work by a lot I would assume.

stockastic · « **Reply #25 on:** August 18, 2019, 16:39 »

Quote from: foliootter on August 18, 2019, 16:19

Does anyone know if other agencies follow this same practices ? This de-values our work by a lot I would assume.

My assumption is that they all do things like this - or if an agency isn't doing it now, it might start next week.

OM · « **Reply #26 on:** August 20, 2019, 03:48 »

Shutterstock knows their power and basically has a captive base of suppliers (us) which they keep in the dark about any deals they make with third party agencies (WIX, FB, FAA etc) because for SS any sale is a sale and adds to the bottom line whether or not the compensation for use to the contributor is reasonable /equitable for that licensing.
The corporate SS doesn't care. It's only duty is to that of the stockholders/investors and as we were never part of any negotiation to make deals, we have neither say in our commission nor in any possible conflict in interest in direct dealing with FAA.....take it or leave it.
To SS it's irrelevant; any sale is money in the bank. If you leave there's 10 others to take your place...so long and thanks for all the fish!

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Author Topic: Shutterstock providing images to Fine Art America (Read 3526 times)

dirkr

marthamarks

Jo Ann Snover

angelawaye

zsooofija

Uncle Pete

steheap

Me

wds

trek

ShadySue

marthamarks

ShadySue

KuriousKat

rinderart

Jo Ann Snover

ShadySue

stockastic

wds

ShadySue

tdezenzio

ShadySue

Anja_Kaiser

Uncle Pete

foliootter

stockastic

OM

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