MicrostockGroup

Agency Based Discussion => Shutterstock.com => Topic started by: gostwyck on November 13, 2012, 16:24

Title: Shutterstock To Announce Third Quarter 2012 Earnings Release on Nov 15th
Post by: gostwyck on November 13, 2012, 16:24
Read all about it here;

http://www.nasdaq.com/article/shutterstock-to-announce-third-quarter-2012-earnings-release-on-november-15-2012-20121108-01788 (http://www.nasdaq.com/article/shutterstock-to-announce-third-quarter-2012-earnings-release-on-november-15-2012-20121108-01788)

Judging by my own sales it should make for interesting reading.
Title: Re: Shutterstock To Announce Third Quarter 2012 Earnings Release on Nov 15th
Post by: gostwyck on November 16, 2012, 07:44
Results are in;

http://www.itnewsonline.com/showprnstory.php?storyid=244621 (http://www.itnewsonline.com/showprnstory.php?storyid=244621)

Revenue for 2012 is now projected at about $165M, up from $121M in 2011. SS have increased their expectations for 2013 to about $206M.



Title: Re: Shutterstock To Announce Third Quarter 2012 Earnings Release on Nov 15th
Post by: velocicarpo on November 16, 2012, 08:09
Sooooo....where is our raise?
Title: Re: Shutterstock To Announce Third Quarter 2012 Earnings Release on Nov 15th
Post by: JPSDK on November 16, 2012, 08:09
sounds like a healthy prospering company.

Congratulations Shutterstock, and you have not annoyed 1000snds of contributors in the process.
Title: Re: Shutterstock To Announce Third Quarter 2012 Earnings Release on Nov 15th
Post by: luissantos84 on November 16, 2012, 08:15
thanks for sharing gostwyck! ;)
Title: Re: Shutterstock To Announce Third Quarter 2012 Earnings Release on Nov 15th
Post by: rubyroo on November 16, 2012, 08:28
Yes, thanks!  I'm no expert on these things, so if there's any cause for concern in there, I can't see it.  It all sounds good to me  ;D

Congratulations Jon and SS.  I hope you'll carry on as you are (ever upward!) and not start trying to fix anything that "ain't broke". :)

Thanks for all the dosh. :)
Title: Re: Shutterstock To Announce Third Quarter 2012 Earnings Release on Nov 15th
Post by: gostwyck on November 16, 2012, 08:37
Sooooo....where is our raise?

Buy some stock! I reckon Jon is keeping prices stable, operating for steady growth rather than immediate profits, and watching customers of IS, FT and DT come to SS. When the time is right he'll be able to increase prices and our commissions.

No point in "doing an iStock" and destroying a healthy business with mismanagement and greed.
Title: Re: Shutterstock To Announce Third Quarter 2012 Earnings Release on Nov 15th
Post by: velocicarpo on November 16, 2012, 09:07
Sooooo....where is our raise?

Buy some stock! I reckon Jon is keeping prices stable, operating for steady growth rather than immediate profits, and watching customers of IS, FT and DT come to SS. When the time is right he'll be able to increase prices and our commissions.

No point in "doing an iStock" and destroying a healthy business with mismanagement and greed.

Well, that doesn`t mean they have to raise their prices. I know you are a fanboy of SS, but if a company is making more Profit on the goods we supply I think a raise for us would be a good thing.
Title: Re: Shutterstock To Announce Third Quarter 2012 Earnings Release on Nov 15th
Post by: gostwyck on November 16, 2012, 09:39
Well, that doesn`t mean they have to raise their prices. I know you are a fanboy of SS, but if a company is making more Profit on the goods we supply I think a raise for us would be a good thing.

I'm a 'fan boy' of any well-managed microstock agency that delivers steady growth to my income over several years, doesn't cut commissions, doesn't do sneaky currency exchanges, doesn't lie to us and doesn't do dodgy claw-backs for supposed credit-card fraud. Hmmm *thinks really hard* __ that'll just be SS then.
Title: Re: Shutterstock To Announce Third Quarter 2012 Earnings Release on Nov 15th
Post by: ouchie on November 16, 2012, 10:58
Well, that doesn`t mean they have to raise their prices. I know you are a fanboy of SS, but if a company is making more Profit on the goods we supply I think a raise for us would be a good thing.

I'm a 'fan boy' of any well-managed microstock agency that delivers steady growth to my income over several years, doesn't cut commissions, doesn't do sneaky currency exchanges, doesn't lie to us and doesn't do dodgy claw-backs for supposed credit-card fraud. Hmmm *thinks really hard* __ that'll just be SS then.




Ok, we make $$ @ ss but lets be real.

STOP thanking them for the crumbs that fall off the table.

~~~~ss philosophy: start them with low pmts and keep them low, no raises for the masses!

What, we should say thank you for paying us 25c a dl!!!!!

why don't u do the math, figure out how much you made for the year and how much you made for ss for the year.

then tell me u r happy.

and what do you think they are going to do now that they r a public co.??????

Better get out the KY and bend over :'(

you bunch of baffoons.

Oh yes ss we love you, please can i become exclusive with you so that u can rape me on a daily time schedule and i cant say ouch.

Please can i, can i, P L E A S E! ! ! ! ! ! ! 


Title: Re: Shutterstock To Announce Third Quarter 2012 Earnings Release on Nov 15th
Post by: nicku on November 16, 2012, 11:39


I really want to see IS balance ....
Title: Re: Shutterstock To Announce Third Quarter 2012 Earnings Release on Nov 15th
Post by: cthoman on November 16, 2012, 11:52
Sooooo....where is our raise?

I doubt there will be a raise anytime soon.
Title: Re: Shutterstock To Announce Third Quarter 2012 Earnings Release on Nov 15th
Post by: nicku on November 16, 2012, 12:01
$204-208 millions projection for 2013... that means one thing: increased sales and revenue ( even at the same commissions ).
Title: Re: Shutterstock To Announce Third Quarter 2012 Earnings Release on Nov 15th
Post by: click_click on November 16, 2012, 12:05
Revenue per download = $    2.26

So assuming everyone gets 38 cents per download we're officially at 16% commission?

(http://cdn2.holytaco.com/wp-content/uploads/images/2009/12/1274465753023.gif)

Title: Re: Shutterstock To Announce Third Quarter 2012 Earnings Release on Nov 15th
Post by: cthoman on November 16, 2012, 12:08
Revenue per download = $    2.26

So assuming everyone gets 38 cents per download we're officially at 16% commission?

 :o

It's more like 30% or $.67 a download. That's about what I average. Still not great though.

$204-208 millions projection for 2013... that means one thing: increased sales and revenue ( even at the same commissions ).

Or just smaller slices of a larger pie.  ;)
Title: Re: Shutterstock To Announce Third Quarter 2012 Earnings Release on Nov 15th
Post by: click_click on November 16, 2012, 12:12
It's more like 30% or $.67 a download. That's about what I average. Still not great though.

Yeah you're right. Although I'd say not the the majority at SS is getting 38 cents either...
Title: Re: Shutterstock To Announce Third Quarter 2012 Earnings Release on Nov 15th
Post by: ouchie on November 16, 2012, 12:15
and are u saying that commision if good?
Title: Re: Shutterstock To Announce Third Quarter 2012 Earnings Release on Nov 15th
Post by: traveler1116 on November 16, 2012, 12:31
$204-208 millions projection for 2013... that means one thing: increased sales and revenue ( even at the same commissions ).
It's good for SS.  How many images did they add last year, about 25%?  (weekly figure was 87,000, over 1 year that's 4.5million or over 25%)  If the trend continues 25% more images and 25% more money(they hope) to go around looks to me like a wash.
Title: Re: Shutterstock To Announce Third Quarter 2012 Earnings Release on Nov 15th
Post by: pixmicro on November 16, 2012, 12:55
By the way, when will SS set a new lifetime earnings level over the 10 000$ ?
like 20 000, or 25000 or 30000 i don't know...
What do you think ?
Title: Re: Shutterstock To Announce Third Quarter 2012 Earnings Release on Nov 15th
Post by: gostwyck on November 16, 2012, 15:05
Well, that doesn`t mean they have to raise their prices. I know you are a fanboy of SS, but if a company is making more Profit on the goods we supply I think a raise for us would be a good thing.

I'm a 'fan boy' of any well-managed microstock agency that delivers steady growth to my income over several years, doesn't cut commissions, doesn't do sneaky currency exchanges, doesn't lie to us and doesn't do dodgy claw-backs for supposed credit-card fraud. Hmmm *thinks really hard* __ that'll just be SS then.




Ok, we make $$ @ ss but lets be real.

STOP thanking them for the crumbs that fall off the table.

~~~~ss philosophy: start them with low pmts and keep them low, no raises for the masses!

What, we should say thank you for paying us 25c a dl!!!!!

why don't u do the math, figure out how much you made for the year and how much you made for ss for the year.

then tell me u r happy.

and what do you think they are going to do now that they r a public co.??????

Better get out the KY and bend over :'(

you bunch of baffoons.

Oh yes ss we love you, please can i become exclusive with you so that u can rape me on a daily time schedule and i cant say ouch.

Please can i, can i, P L E A S E! ! ! ! ! ! !

Where do you get 25c from? My average at SS this month is running at 84c. Do I think that's good? Well, due to the massive volume, it can certainly be profitable. When I shoot a series I hope to have recovered the cost within the first month or two with sales at SS alone. All sales after that and all income from other agencies is pure profit. All my gear was paid for years ago and I deliberately operate with minimal overhead __ just the way microstock was supposed to work. It's maybe not a formula that's going to work for everyone or every subject matter but, if you enjoy it as I do, it sure beats working for a living.

If you actually read the financial data on SS I think you'll find that contributors collectively probably make far more actual profit than SS. Off the top of my head I think SS made about $11M profit last year on sales of $120M. That's less than 10%. No matter how much I stretch out my own expenses on my tax form I struggle to keep the profitability of my own one-man business below 85%. The truth, no matter how much you wish to deny it, is that SS distributes far more money to contributors than it retains in profit. How profitable each contributor is, after expenses, is down to their own decisions and skills.
Title: Re: Shutterstock To Announce Third Quarter 2012 Earnings Release on Nov 15th
Post by: Pauws99 on November 16, 2012, 16:04
These figures hardly show an industry in terminal decline as many suggest. Further polarisation maybe?
Title: Re: Shutterstock To Announce Third Quarter 2012 Earnings Release on Nov 15th
Post by: ouchie on November 16, 2012, 20:33
if microatock sites were farmers.....

Mr. microstock~~~~hey Bill would you like to help me harvest my 20.000 acre potato field, i will give u a 1lb sack of potatoes for every acre u pick?

dumb ass us~~~~~~~~~Geeeee whiiz yes id love to!!! (thinks to himself whiz ima gona b a farmer, Yiihaaaa!)

Mr. microstoc~~~~~thanks Bill for breaking your back bending over picking the potatoes out of the ground all day long. even though I'm taking all the risk operating the farm and your just getting potatoes for free basically. Id like to do you a little favor cause your sooo valuable to me. I'm gona give you these FREE 250 moomoo-cards but u gota pay the shipping! Think of all the ppl you can impress telling them you are now an official farmer. lucky you having a nice boss like me!

dumb ass us~~~~~~~~~~oh wow, thank you, thank you sooooo much! I'm not worthy.

us~~~~~~~~~~(thingking) what a nice guy that Mr microstock man is! you know what ima gona do, ima gona go out and buy me one of them thar new fangled machines (by Nikon that costs 6k) that u drive around in and it picks up the potatoes for you. now that i got a few sacks of potatoes, i can use some as a deposit! then next year i can make MORE $$$$$$$$$$!

Mr. microstock~~~~at home relaxing with a drink (thinking): man i shure did find a huge bunch of suckers out there in this world, theres one born every min. cant believe i got them to harvest my fields and only payed them a few potato sacks each. man life is good

dumb ass us a t home~~~~~~hunny give me  some paper and a pensssiel, ima gona do some maths and figure out my RPR (return per potato) ima made operating this here new biznes. and how much more i can make once i buy that new shinny Nikon potato picker contraption. din i tellya baby stick with me ima goin places. I think ima ready to quit my job at the coal mine!!!!!!
Title: Re: Shutterstock To Announce Third Quarter 2012 Earnings Release on Nov 15th
Post by: gostwyck on November 16, 2012, 23:03
...
Title: Re: Shutterstock To Announce Third Quarter 2012 Earnings Release on Nov 15th
Post by: luissantos84 on November 17, 2012, 11:25
http://seekingalpha.com/article/1015581-shutterstock-s-ceo-discusses-q3-2012-results-earnings-call-transcript (http://seekingalpha.com/article/1015581-shutterstock-s-ceo-discusses-q3-2012-results-earnings-call-transcript)
Title: Re: Shutterstock To Announce Third Quarter 2012 Earnings Release on Nov 15th
Post by: Jo Ann Snover on November 17, 2012, 15:54
Revenue per download = $    2.26

So assuming everyone gets 38 cents per download we're officially at 16% commission?

 :o

It's more like 30% or $.67 a download. That's about what I average. Still not great though.

$204-208 millions projection for 2013... that means one thing: increased sales and revenue ( even at the same commissions ).

Or just smaller slices of a larger pie.  ;)

So the last couple of months, my average has been around 80 cents per download, which is about 35%, and given the volume SS is able to generate, I think that's more than "not great". As long as the SS share is in part being spent on growing the business (versus just paying off private equity) I'm happy for them to keep a big chunk in return for all their work on flogging my stuff.

The CFO's statement said their cost of revenue was 38%, the bulk of which was contributor payments, so that seems to match up reasonably well with my numbers. They say they have 35K contributors, but I'm guessing that it's like other agencies where there's a huge pool of people who contribute and sell very little that account for the bulk of that number.

I read the transcript of the earnings call and there were several things that I liked in there.

They are increasing their efforts to reach large companies. Jon noted that 70% of Fortune 500 companies had at least one SS account, but spending with SS was a small fraction of those companies' total image spending. They want to increase that, and as long as that isn't done via discounting (elsewhere the COO talked about keeping the prices flat for subscriptions, which I think is code language for not discounting them) that seems like very good news for contributors.

"On the sales side, where we are just getting started penetrating agencies and large enterprises, we had our best quarter ever. On the agency side, we signed our third global master service agreement with a large agency network, and we grew adoption and usage across all of our agencies. On the enterprise side, we signed more deals than ever and we also expanded our selling footprint by adding new team members in the US and Europe, including our first sales office outside of headquarters."

I don't think I know what he's talking about with agency networks - is that where the growth in OD and single/other sales is coming from? Does anyone else have a clue what this is referring to.

As IS has closed the Berlin office, it's nice to see SS adding people in Europe.

Regarding the comment above that revenue only grew in line with growth in the colleciton, the CFO said that revenue for Q3 2012 was up 36% (39% in "constant currency terms"). The downloads in Q3 2012 were 18.7 million, up 26% from Q3 2011. In other words, revenue is growing faster than the growth in downloads or the library, which is good.

They've added staff (up 35% since the beginning of 2012) but 40% of the additions have been in their products and technology group "...folks that sort of build products that we deliver to customers..." according to the CFO. R&D spending is up too.

From the Q&A, the CFO made a comment about subscription growth versus on demand: "And what that has been generally is the subscription plan, pricing plan has grown a little bit more slowly than our overall growth, and on-demand growing a little bit faster, and that has continued to drive the mix shift, but we have seen consistent and steady growth from both overtime. We expect that to continue."

I'm happy to see more and more on demand as that is going to continue to drive up our returns. In response to another question about price increases, this was the answer: "As we have mentioned, we have held our pricing for our products flat over not only Q3, but really over the last few years, because our focus is really on increasing share. We are the significant price advantage to some of our competition and we believe that’s the right place for us to be right now. Long term, again, I think that we have talked about, there is probably opportunity, but we are very focused on increasing our penetration at this point."

This seems very much like amazon - amass a big market share and then you can focus on improving your returns. Clearly Getty will want to fight them on this, but I'm hoping that SS holds them off (given that I think that's my best chance of seeing some of the money; Getty has too many vultures to pay off).

On a question about the 2013 projections which beat the analyst's models, it included this lovely phrase "...how you balanced your 2013 outlook, given what’s been a little bit sort of a mixed bag from some of the agencies..." A little bit of a sort of a mix bag??? funny!


All in all a very positive report, IMO
Title: Re: Shutterstock To Announce Third Quarter 2012 Earnings Release on Nov 15th
Post by: ClaridgeJ on November 17, 2012, 16:28
Hope we will have the same views on SS a year from now on.
Title: Re: Shutterstock To Announce Third Quarter 2012 Earnings Release on Nov 15th
Post by: rubyroo on November 17, 2012, 16:29
Thank you, thank you, JSnover.  :D

I haven't had time to wade through all there is to read on this, so I'm very grateful for your positive synopsis.  Thank you for taking the time to share your take on it.
Title: Re: Shutterstock To Announce Third Quarter 2012 Earnings Release on Nov 15th
Post by: Jo Ann Snover on November 17, 2012, 16:39
Hope we will have the same views on SS a year from now on.

All empires fade over time. I don't much care if SS is going to be around for 20 years (it'd be very nice, but I'm not betting on it). What's pleasant is to have some good news in a sea of almost unrelenting cr*p.
Title: Re: Shutterstock To Announce Third Quarter 2012 Earnings Release on Nov 15th
Post by: Mantis on November 17, 2012, 18:33
Hope we will have the same views on SS a year from now on.

My sentiments exactly.
Title: Re: Shutterstock To Announce Third Quarter 2012 Earnings Release on Nov 15th
Post by: pro@stockphotos on November 17, 2012, 20:48
Sooooo....where is our raise?

I doubt there will be a raise anytime soon.

Look when IS brought in  200M in sales a year an exclusive contributor ranked at 250 in sales made > $200 a day.  Exclusive at rank 100 made >$350 a day and anyone exclusive in the top ten made  >$20,000 a month.  Is this what they are paying at SS.  Or are they maximizing shareholder profit.  Which is their only objective now that that are a public traded company. 

Why pay more if you have contributors praising your CEO who made $400 million while paying you peanuts. Good for you.  Not smart. 
Title: Re: Shutterstock To Announce Third Quarter 2012 Earnings Release on Nov 15th
Post by: ouchie on November 17, 2012, 23:13
Sooooo....where is our raise?

I doubt there will be a raise anytime soon.

Look when IS brought in  200M in sales a year an exclusive contributor ranked at 250 in sales made > $200 a day.  Exclusive at rank 100 made >$350 a day and anyone exclusive in the top ten made  >$20,000 a month.  Is this what they are paying at SS.  Or are they maximizing shareholder profit.  Which is their only objective now that that are a public traded company. 

Why pay more if you have contributors praising your CEO who made $400 million while paying you peanuts. Good for you.  Not smart.

Or are they maximizing shareholder profit.  Which is their only objective now that that are a public traded company.
Why pay more if you have contributors praising your CEO who made $400 million while paying you peanuts. Good for you.  Not smart.

Wow-someone on here with his eys open!!!!
but you/we are casting pearls before swine here, most are just teen fan boys and girls.

they are dimwits, its obvious.

Stop praising these companys that are raping you.

I know and understand we r making some money but be real ppl, we are making a fraction of what we should.

unfortunetly the masses (you all) agreed to accept this meager pmt for your work, and the otheres who would never have gone for it....well had to..........a couple of sacks of potatoes are better then none.
 
BUT FOR THE LIFE IM ME I WILL NEVER PRAISE THEM AND BE THERE LAP DOG.

Grow a pair already!

dimwitted farmers make that share cropers!

Title: Re: Shutterstock To Announce Third Quarter 2012 Earnings Release on Nov 15th
Post by: luissantos84 on November 17, 2012, 23:45
Sooooo....where is our raise?

I doubt there will be a raise anytime soon.

Look when IS brought in  200M in sales a year an exclusive contributor ranked at 250 in sales made > $200 a day.  Exclusive at rank 100 made >$350 a day and anyone exclusive in the top ten made  >$20,000 a month.  Is this what they are paying at SS.  Or are they maximizing shareholder profit.  Which is their only objective now that that are a public traded company. 

Why pay more if you have contributors praising your CEO who made $400 million while paying you peanuts. Good for you.  Not smart.

its hard to understand what you are trying saying when you are still happy with iStock as exclusive, they can drop in $ and downloads but you will continue to praise them ;D

that said my rpd at SS is around 60 cents, looking at SS announce (2.2$/download) they are paying me 27.2%, on the other hand iStock is paying me what? yes 16% :o
Title: Re: Shutterstock To Announce Third Quarter 2012 Earnings Release on Nov 15th
Post by: sharpshot on November 18, 2012, 05:09
I'm concerned that SS are going to become too dominant and they will be concentrating so much on increasing profits that we will end up getting the same treatment we've had from several other sites.  But there's nothing I can do about it and anyone that thinks we have any power is fooling themselves.  After seeing how the vast majority carried on uploading to istock after they cut commissions below 20%, I just hope that SS don't eventually end up doing the same.

Perhaps the commission cuts of their rivals are part of the reason why SS is doing so well but I think the price rises and other poor policies are the real reason.  If SS ends up as the No.1 site with little competition and it's hard to sustain growth, it isn't difficult to see what's likely to happen.  At least it looks like we have some time to make a bit of money before that happens.

I would become a fan boy of SS if they guaranteed a minimum 30% commission for the next 10 years but without that, it's hard to be confident about the long term future for contributors.
Title: Re: Shutterstock To Announce Third Quarter 2012 Earnings Release on Nov 15th
Post by: cthoman on November 18, 2012, 10:53
I'm concerned that SS are going to become too dominant and they will be concentrating so much on increasing profits that we will end up getting the same treatment we've had from several other sites.  But there's nothing I can do about it and anyone that thinks we have any power is fooling themselves.  After seeing how the vast majority carried on uploading to istock after they cut commissions below 20%, I just hope that SS don't eventually end up doing the same.

I have to say that I have similar concerns. There is the thought in the back of my head that they will eventually become this massive crowdsourced juggernaut where nobody gets a big enough slice to earn anything except SS.

As far as not being able to do anything about it, I disagree. While you will never shut down a site just by leaving (someone will always upload there), I do notice that buyers do seem to follow content. Not because of some loyalty to the artist, but they just find it. That's been my experience with leaving sites anyway. When you eliminate a site, another one tends to rise up.
Title: Re: Shutterstock To Announce Third Quarter 2012 Earnings Release on Nov 15th
Post by: Jo Ann Snover on November 18, 2012, 11:54
...I would become a fan boy of SS if they guaranteed a minimum 30% commission for the next 10 years but without that, it's hard to be confident about the long term future for contributors.

Any commission guarantee isn't worth anything unless it's a percentage of the gross. We've already seen the games played by others - iStock most recently - where they define your percentage as coming from a "net" that they get to calculate, thus making it completely flexible.

In the call to analysts, SS talked about a virtuous cycle - that contributors earning good money is what brings in more content for them. I think they get that if they stop feeding us well, their new content drops off as a direct result. If SS gets bought by H&F or the like, we're probably hosed. The bigger they get, the less likely things are to be good for contributors, but right now where they want to steal some corporate business from Getty, I think we could stand to make out very well over the next few years (assuming they're able to eat a part of Getty's lunch).
Title: Re: Shutterstock To Announce Third Quarter 2012 Earnings Release on Nov 15th
Post by: gostwyck on November 18, 2012, 12:28
^^^ Well said JoAnn.

I find it bizarre that we have all these hand-wringing depressives on here who assume that SS will follow the path of IS and FT in reducing commissions, increasing prices, etc. Why would SS do that? Did such actions bring success and additional wealth to either IS or FT? Of course not. The opposite is true. Both agencies now have considerably reduced market-share and influence as a result of their ham-fisted greed.

With every day that passes, whilst they maintain their current courses, both IS and FT appear to be losing customers and revenue to SS. If I were in charge of either agency I would immediately engage reverse gear, simplify the pricing architecture, reduce prices and increase commissions/incentives to contributors. Why? Because it is the only way to compete against SS.

Oringer recognises that keeping both customers and contributors happy is the route to success. I feel it is far more likely that his competitors will eventually have to wake up, smell the coffee and follow his lead. Because if they don't they won't have much of business left.
Title: Re: Shutterstock To Announce Third Quarter 2012 Earnings Release on Nov 15th
Post by: cthoman on November 18, 2012, 12:47
I find it bizarre that we have all these hand-wringing depressives on here who assume that SS will follow the path of IS and FT in reducing commissions, increasing prices, etc. Why would SS do that?

Just to be clear, I don't think that at all. I think of it more from the perspective that as they get bigger and accept more and more contributors, it gets harder to get your files seen. Basically, their collection grows faster than their customers until it gets too hard to make money. They've done a good job of mitigating that so far by adding single sales and on demand, so you don't have to sell as many files to maintain or increase earnings.

I don't know if this will be the eventual outcome, but it seems like one of the more likely ones.
Title: Re: Shutterstock To Announce Third Quarter 2012 Earnings Release on Nov 15th
Post by: sharpshot on November 19, 2012, 05:03
...I find it bizarre that we have all these hand-wringing depressives on here who assume that SS will follow the path of IS and FT in reducing commissions, increasing prices, etc. Why would SS do that?...
If they can't keep their shareholders happy in a few years time, because profit growth has slowed down, it would be an obvious solution.  If they're dominating the market by then, it will be easy for them.  And I think the other sites have suffered more from losing their buyers than they have from cutting contributors commissions.  Haven't they lost their buyers from raising prices too often, bringing in complicated price structures and general incompetence and bad decision making?

Most people used to love Ebay and never thought they would make life difficult for their sellers but talk to some of them now and its a different story.

I hope that never happens to Shutterestock but calling me a "hand-wringing depressive" is ridiculous.  Isn't that the kind of language the istock fan boys used to use a few years ago when anyone dared say anything other than a big compliment about them?
Title: Re: Shutterstock To Announce Third Quarter 2012 Earnings Release on Nov 15th
Post by: Yuri_Arcurs on November 20, 2012, 04:11
16% is pretty bad. I think I will start to upload only Low res from now on. For 38 cents per download - that's the price of a a low res :)
Title: Re: Shutterstock To Announce Third Quarter 2012 Earnings Release on Nov 15th
Post by: ClaridgeJ on November 20, 2012, 06:26
I find it bizarre that we have all these hand-wringing depressives on here who assume that SS will follow the path of IS and FT in reducing commissions, increasing prices, etc. Why would SS do that?

Just to be clear, I don't think that at all. I think of it more from the perspective that as they get bigger and accept more and more contributors, it gets harder to get your files seen. Basically, their collection grows faster than their customers until it gets too hard to make money. They've done a good job of mitigating that so far by adding single sales and on demand, so you don't have to sell as many files to maintain or increase earnings.

I don't know if this will be the eventual outcome, but it seems like one of the more likely ones.

I think you are absoloutely right! and so does many market analysts here. I am sure that we will start seeing major changes within a year from now on. Shareholders will want to see profits and more profits and ultimately it just becomes a matter of just bleeding the whole thing.
If history has taught us anything during the last 7 years, its got to be that any take-overs, buy-outs, IPOs, in our business often result in negative changes for its members/contributors.
I am not painting evils on the wall just trying to be realistic, going by past track records. So, I have a good escape route out of it.
Title: Re: Shutterstock To Announce Third Quarter 2012 Earnings Release on Nov 15th
Post by: gostwyck on November 20, 2012, 08:13
16% is pretty bad. I think I will start to upload only Low res from now on. For 38 cents per download - that's the price of a a low res :)

The "16%" you are quoting is what iSTOCK are paying Luis, not Shutterstock. SS are paying him over 27%.
Title: Re: Shutterstock To Announce Third Quarter 2012 Earnings Release on Nov 15th
Post by: leaf on November 20, 2012, 08:15
16% is pretty bad. I think I will start to upload only Low res from now on. For 38 cents per download - that's the price of a a low res :)


The "16%" you are quoting is what iSTOCK are paying Luis, not Shutterstock. SS are paying him over 27%.


and here's the proof
http://www.microstockgroup.com/shutterstock-com/what-does-shutterstock-actually-pay-out-i%27ve-figured-it-out (http://www.microstockgroup.com/shutterstock-com/what-does-shutterstock-actually-pay-out-i%27ve-figured-it-out)!/
Title: Re: Shutterstock To Announce Third Quarter 2012 Earnings Release on Nov 15th
Post by: gostwyck on November 20, 2012, 08:21
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Title: Re: Shutterstock To Announce Third Quarter 2012 Earnings Release on Nov 15th
Post by: luissantos84 on November 20, 2012, 09:47
16% is pretty bad. I think I will start to upload only Low res from now on. For 38 cents per download - that's the price of a a low res :)

The "16%" you are quoting is what iSTOCK are paying Luis, not Shutterstock. SS are paying him over 27%.

exactly, thanks for pointing that out :)
Title: Re: Shutterstock To Announce Third Quarter 2012 Earnings Release on Nov 15th
Post by: pro@stockphotos on November 20, 2012, 09:53
16% is pretty bad. I think I will start to upload only Low res from now on. For 38 cents per download - that's the price of a a low res :)

The "16%" you are quoting is what iSTOCK are paying Luis, not Shutterstock. SS are paying him over 27%.

First, this is where stats get used to make an dishonest claim.  Percentages vs selling price.  Are you saying the selling price for images are the same at SS and IS. 

Second, You assume that SS can raise prices and commissions while selling a product that is not exclusive.  They don't sell anything that can't be bought on other sites.  This keeps prices low.. see walmart.
 
Third, A lot of independents did not go with IS because they did not want to give power to one company. But instead this has let the competition lower the value of work and now in the gutter it lays.
Title: Re: Shutterstock To Announce Third Quarter 2012 Earnings Release on Nov 15th
Post by: loop on November 20, 2012, 10:15
16% is pretty bad. I think I will start to upload only Low res from now on. For 38 cents per download - that's the price of a a low res :)

The "16%" you are quoting is what iSTOCK are paying Luis, not Shutterstock. SS are paying him over 27%.

I supposse Yuri is getting 20% at Istock, or, at least, 19%, not 16... Knowing exactly which the SS percentage is, it's not easy, but that doesn't change the fact that he's getting 0.38 dollar per download, regardless of size.
Title: Re: Shutterstock To Announce Third Quarter 2012 Earnings Release on Nov 15th
Post by: luissantos84 on November 20, 2012, 10:19
16% is pretty bad. I think I will start to upload only Low res from now on. For 38 cents per download - that's the price of a a low res :)

The "16%" you are quoting is what iSTOCK are paying Luis, not Shutterstock. SS are paying him over 27%.

First, this is where stats get used to make an dishonest claim.  Percentages vs selling price.  Are you saying the selling price for images are the same at SS and IS. 

Second, You assume that SS can raise prices and commissions while selling a product that is not exclusive.  They don't sell anything that can't be bought on other sites.  This keeps prices low.. see walmart.
 
Third, A lot of independents did not go with IS because they did not want to give power to one company. But instead this has let the competition lower the value of work and now in the gutter it lays.

its a pretty statement, the problem is that SS is now bringing most of the dosh to "everybody" (not exclusives of course)

if the way to go is subscriptions, what can we do? leave and get the iStock money? become exclusive? ;D

whats the point of talking about prices when they have set us the lowest commission ever, yes back at iStock ;)
Title: Re: Shutterstock To Announce Third Quarter 2012 Earnings Release on Nov 15th
Post by: luissantos84 on November 20, 2012, 10:22
16% is pretty bad. I think I will start to upload only Low res from now on. For 38 cents per download - that's the price of a a low res :)

The "16%" you are quoting is what iSTOCK are paying Luis, not Shutterstock. SS are paying him over 27%.

I supposse Yuri is getting 20% at Istock, or, at least, 19%, not 16... Knowing exactly which the SS percentage is, it's not easy, but that doesn't change the fact that he's getting 0.38 dollar per download, regardless of size.

he ain't getting 38 cents per download, how many times shall we repeat that it ain't our RPD :o most average/top contributor is getting over 75 cents, if we enter PP on iStock income it can get that too, when will you guys give up on defending iStock after screw up and screw up ;D
Title: Re: Shutterstock To Announce Third Quarter 2012 Earnings Release on Nov 15th
Post by: gostwyck on November 20, 2012, 10:25
First, this is where stats get used to make an dishonest claim.  Percentages vs selling price.  Are you saying the selling price for images are the same at SS and IS. 

Second, You assume that SS can raise prices and commissions while selling a product that is not exclusive.  They don't sell anything that can't be bought on other sites.  This keeps prices low.. see walmart.
 
Third, A lot of independents did not go with IS because they did not want to give power to one company. But instead this has let the competition lower the value of work and now in the gutter it lays.

Well actually iStock has something called the PP which pays us considerably less than SS and, even worse, independent contributors have had their choice of whether to participate in the PP removed.

I think we can both agree that IS has treated contributors disgracefully over the last couple of years. Imagine how much worse things could have been without competition for our work?

Your argument is destroyed by the fact that before DT, SS and CanStockPhoto arrived on the scene iStock paid nobody more than 20%. The exclusivity programme and the higher commissions were only introduced because of the competition. You have much to thank SS and DT for although I very much doubt you will acknowledge that.

I believe we have a much more sustainable and stable marketplace for our work with healthy competition. An iStock monopoly would not be good for either contributors or image buyers.
Title: Re: Shutterstock To Announce Third Quarter 2012 Earnings Release on Nov 15th
Post by: cthoman on November 20, 2012, 10:57
An iStock monopoly would not be good for either contributors or image buyers.

I probably would have made more money with an iStock monopoly, but it doesn't really matter. It's all hypothetical.
Title: Re: Shutterstock To Announce Third Quarter 2012 Earnings Release on Nov 15th
Post by: Jo Ann Snover on November 20, 2012, 11:07
I supposse Yuri is getting 20% at Istock, or, at least, 19%, not 16... Knowing exactly which the SS percentage is, it's not easy, but that doesn't change the fact that he's getting 0.38 dollar per download, regardless of size.

As has been pointed out above, this is just incorrect. You get that per subscription download, but the on demand, single and other downloads have different prices based on size, so you'd be losing out on the higher priced ($2.85 royalty for the on demand, $5.70 and up for single and other) royalties if you only uploaded small images - $1.24 vs. $2.85 for on demand, for example.

And as has also been pointed out, 38 cents is a lot better than 28 cents which is what I receive for subscriptions at Thinkstock.

As someone else said, you're entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts.
Title: Re: Shutterstock To Announce Third Quarter 2012 Earnings Release on Nov 15th
Post by: loop on November 20, 2012, 14:41
16% is pretty bad. I think I will start to upload only Low res from now on. For 38 cents per download - that's the price of a a low res :)

The "16%" you are quoting is what iSTOCK are paying Luis, not Shutterstock. SS are paying him over 27%.

I supposse Yuri is getting 20% at Istock, or, at least, 19%, not 16... Knowing exactly which the SS percentage is, it's not easy, but that doesn't change the fact that he's getting 0.38 dollar per download, regardless of size.

he ain't getting 38 cents per download, how many times shall we repeat that it ain't our RPD :o most average/top contributor is getting over 75 cents, if we enter PP on iStock income it can get that too, when will you guys give up on defending iStock after screw up and screw up ;D

Well, I neither wouldn't like getting 75 cents for an XXXL. I get around 15 $  (20x) for a regular exclusive at IS, not to talk of e+, Vetta and Agency. Maybe it would be interesting to know which agency pays less for a big print size (I don't think its SS)
Title: Re: Shutterstock To Announce Third Quarter 2012 Earnings Release on Nov 15th
Post by: luissantos84 on November 20, 2012, 14:50
16% is pretty bad. I think I will start to upload only Low res from now on. For 38 cents per download - that's the price of a a low res :)

The "16%" you are quoting is what iSTOCK are paying Luis, not Shutterstock. SS are paying him over 27%.

I supposse Yuri is getting 20% at Istock, or, at least, 19%, not 16... Knowing exactly which the SS percentage is, it's not easy, but that doesn't change the fact that he's getting 0.38 dollar per download, regardless of size.

he ain't getting 38 cents per download, how many times shall we repeat that it ain't our RPD :o most average/top contributor is getting over 75 cents, if we enter PP on iStock income it can get that too, when will you guys give up on defending iStock after screw up and screw up ;D

Well, I neither wouldn't like getting 75 cents for an XXXL. I get around 15 $  (20x) for a regular exclusive at IS, not to talk of e+, Vetta and Agency. Maybe it would be interesting to know which agency pays less for a big print size (I don't think its SS)

I am going exclusive! ;D
Title: Re: Shutterstock To Announce Third Quarter 2012 Earnings Release on Nov 15th
Post by: pro@stockphotos on November 20, 2012, 15:15
An iStock monopoly would not be good for either contributors or image buyers.

I probably would have made more money with an iStock monopoly, but it doesn't really matter. It's all hypothetical.

Yes that is what is weird on here.  Monopolies are better for suppliers and competition is better for buyers pushing down the prices.  Which one are we?   
Title: Re: Shutterstock To Announce Third Quarter 2012 Earnings Release on Nov 15th
Post by: cthoman on November 20, 2012, 15:30
An iStock monopoly would not be good for either contributors or image buyers.

I probably would have made more money with an iStock monopoly, but it doesn't really matter. It's all hypothetical.

Yes that is what is weird on here.  Monopolies are better for suppliers and competition is better for buyers pushing down the prices.  Which one are we?

I wouldn't say that either. If I flipped it around and gave SS the monopoly, I'd probably make less. I just meant I got paid more per sale at IS, so I probably would make more overall if their competition disappeared. But, it would be impossible for any agency to achieve a monopoly. There is always going to be some sort of alternative.
Title: Re: Shutterstock To Announce Third Quarter 2012 Earnings Release on Nov 15th
Post by: RacePhoto on November 22, 2012, 01:41
An iStock monopoly would not be good for either contributors or image buyers.

I probably would have made more money with an iStock monopoly, but it doesn't really matter. It's all hypothetical.

Yes that is what is weird on here.  Monopolies are better for suppliers and competition is better for buyers pushing down the prices.  Which one are we?

But Micro isn't a monopoly and won't be. It will just be less crummy little wannabee agencies and more bigger real business like agencies. Nothing will change on the supply side because pretty much all the same people, upload all the same files, everywhere. And they are just competing with their own sales, with price cutting. So if a buyer can't get it on Lowball Photos because they are gone, they can find the identical file on agencies 1-10 for a better commission.

People just haven't figured out yet that less agencies and only support the ones with better commissions, means more income!

The same people who want more money, are selling everything for less, lower commissions, and supporting cut rate competition, with their own images. Ironic isn't it?