Quote from: Pauws99 on January 27, 2016, 18:46
Its called competition I'm afraid you might have to get used to it.....just like the old pros who used macrostock 

Competition is good and improves our work. I have no problem with the merit system as long as the search cards are not stacked against you. That was the case before shutterstock introduced its post IPO search to increase stock prices.

Great for Jon and friends but crap for the rest of us. The new tiered EL's allow to SS to manipulate maximize profit further.

As a buyer, my most common habit is to download the best image I find on the first page. There are other scenarios though.

- Occasionally, I would switch between the Popular & Relevant tab to see what's available.
- For a game, I download about 200 images. I've dug as much as 20 pages deep to find what I need. I needed specific type of landscapes, houses, objects and collage parts.
- For a food app, I downloaded over 300 images, most of it from the first page of  the Popular tab.
- For work, I dug between 1-10 pages deep before I give up and download the best image.

As a contributor, I know that it doesn't matter how good my image is, it's my job to get it to the first page. From what I've seen, it can take as little as 3 downloads to get to the first page in some categories. For it to stay on there, the image must be as good, if not better than the competition on the first page, otherwise it'll start falling.

Quote from: Pauws99 on January 27, 2016, 18:46
Its called competition I'm afraid you might have to get used to it.....just like the old pros who used macrostock 

One middleman ending up in control of a market isn't 'competition', it's the opposite. 

Quote from: stockastic on January 27, 2016, 21:42

Quote from: Pauws99 on January 27, 2016, 18:46
Its called competition I'm afraid you might have to get used to it.....just like the old pros who used macrostock 

One middleman ending up in control of a market isn't 'competition', it's the opposite.

I don't think this is the case according to the poll on the right they have about 30% of the market which is too high but hardly "control"

Quote from: gbalex on January 27, 2016, 21:14

Quote from: Pauws99 on January 27, 2016, 18:46
Its called competition I'm afraid you might have to get used to it.....just like the old pros who used macrostock 

Competition is good and improves our work. I have no problem with the merit system as long as the search cards are not stacked against you. That was the case before shutterstock introduced its post IPO search to increase stock prices.

Great for Jon and friends but crap for the rest of us. The new tiered EL's allow to SS to manipulate maximize profit further.

Having reread what you said I think I was being unfair although wouldn't be simpler for SS to simply pay a flat rate to everyone rather than create sophisticated algorithms and risk alienating customers. I don't have the evidence but couldn't it just be that the tide of new images is flooding you like everyone else?

Quote from: Pauws99 on January 27, 2016, 21:45

Quote from: stockastic on January 27, 2016, 21:42

Quote from: Pauws99 on January 27, 2016, 18:46
Its called competition I'm afraid you might have to get used to it.....just like the old pros who used macrostock 

One middleman ending up in control of a market isn't 'competition', it's the opposite.

I don't think this is the case according to the poll on the right they have about 30% of the market which is too high but hardly "control"

They aren't quite there yet but the handwriting is on the wall. They don't need 100%; they're already big enough that they control price and no new competitors can come in.  The remaining ones are being steadily squeezed out or sold off.  And don't pin your hopes on Adobe; they're just acquiring stock archives to wring more money out of Photoshop.   

Quote from: Minscer on January 27, 2016, 21:27
As a buyer, my most common habit is to download the best image I find on the first page. There are other scenarios though.

- Occasionally, I would switch between the Popular & Relevant tab to see what's available.
- For a game, I download about 200 images. I've dug as much as 20 pages deep to find what I need. I needed specific type of landscapes, houses, objects and collage parts.
- For a food app, I downloaded over 300 images, most of it from the first page of  the Popular tab.
- For work, I dug between 1-10 pages deep before I give up and download the best image.

As a contributor, I know that it doesn't matter how good my image is, it's my job to get it to the first page. From what I've seen, it can take as little as 3 downloads to get to the first page in some categories. For it to stay on there, the image must be as good, if not better than the competition on the first page, otherwise it'll start falling.

Weird! There are people on this forum I 100% agree with! 

Quote from: stockastic on January 27, 2016, 22:03

Quote from: Pauws99 on January 27, 2016, 21:45

Quote from: stockastic on January 27, 2016, 21:42

Quote from: Pauws99 on January 27, 2016, 18:46
Its called competition I'm afraid you might have to get used to it.....just like the old pros who used macrostock 

One middleman ending up in control of a market isn't 'competition', it's the opposite.

I don't think this is the case according to the poll on the right they have about 30% of the market which is too high but hardly "control"

They aren't quite there yet but the handwriting is on the wall. They don't need 100%; they're already big enough that they control price and no new competitors can come in.  The remaining ones are being steadily squeezed out or sold off.  And don't pin your hopes on Adobe; they're just acquiring stock archives to wring more money out of Photoshop.

Last time I checked Fotolia were accepting new images while I agree there is a danger its a much more open market than in the days of macro sites when a small cabal of suppliers held sway and of course Getty still take full advantage of their near monopoly of historic pics

Quote from: Pauws99 on January 27, 2016, 21:51

Quote from: gbalex on January 27, 2016, 21:14

Quote from: Pauws99 on January 27, 2016, 18:46
Its called competition I'm afraid you might have to get used to it.....just like the old pros who used macrostock 

Competition is good and improves our work. I have no problem with the merit system as long as the search cards are not stacked against you. That was the case before shutterstock introduced its post IPO search to increase stock prices.

Great for Jon and friends but crap for the rest of us. The new tiered EL's allow to SS to manipulate maximize profit further.

Having reread what you said I think I was being unfair although wouldn't be simpler for SS to simply pay a flat rate to everyone rather than create sophisticated algorithms and risk alienating customers. I don't have the evidence but couldn't it just be that the tide of new images is flooding you like everyone else?

If that was the case it would not have happened overnight in one day. The drop would have been gradual and dynamic according to the new content we upload.

Quote from: Pauws99 on January 27, 2016, 20:09
This is getting circular but looking at my own sales in no way do I think my best pictures technically or artistically are my most successful it may have more do do with the concept or it may be our old friend luck ;-). I believe that we and the sites are far more concerned about technical quality than 99% of customers.

that definitely you are spot on. looking at the reality that most of our dls are web usage and the image size is no large than 4 by 5 ins.
to expect 200% sharpness edge to edge is a bit overkill. it isn't that say , the client intends to print a life size or a billboard usage from the image . i would say if so, then introduce some sort of high end
single high earning like what used to be  $80-120 commission earnings for us,
and then get us to upload on request that same image of high res .

most of my, and i am sure many of yours, popular dls are really nothing much demanding, technically speaking... much like majority of the ads you see in news media...
or like those horrible horrible ads you see on youtube,etc..
.. amateurish ads with very little need of high end production...
\that saying, yuri was right...  mob phone is all we need today.

Quote from: Pauws99 on January 27, 2016, 22:09

Quote from: stockastic on January 27, 2016, 22:03

Quote from: Pauws99 on January 27, 2016, 21:45

Quote from: stockastic on January 27, 2016, 21:42

Quote from: Pauws99 on January 27, 2016, 18:46
Its called competition I'm afraid you might have to get used to it.....just like the old pros who used macrostock 

One middleman ending up in control of a market isn't 'competition', it's the opposite.

I don't think this is the case according to the poll on the right they have about 30% of the market which is too high but hardly "control"

They aren't quite there yet but the handwriting is on the wall. They don't need 100%; they're already big enough that they control price and no new competitors can come in.  The remaining ones are being steadily squeezed out or sold off.  And don't pin your hopes on Adobe; they're just acquiring stock archives to wring more money out of Photoshop.

Last time I checked Fotolia were accepting new images while I agree there is a danger its a much more open market than in the days of macro sites when a small cabal of suppliers held sway and of course Getty still take full advantage of their near monopoly of historic pics

Yes that's true; I think Adobe probably doesn't really have a plan, this was just some exec's hot idea and who knows where it will end up.   

The internet created new opportunities for photographers: anyone could get into the game and sell photos. But the downside was that a handful of middlemen were able to gain control of the online photo market, keep buyers and producers from ever coming into contact, and totally exploit the situation despite adding little value to the product.  What's needed now is what economists call 'disintermediation' and we call 'cutting out the middleman'.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disintermediation

Quote from: stockastic on January 27, 2016, 23:26

Quote from: Pauws99 on January 27, 2016, 22:09

Quote from: stockastic on January 27, 2016, 22:03

Quote from: Pauws99 on January 27, 2016, 21:45

Quote from: stockastic on January 27, 2016, 21:42

Quote from: Pauws99 on January 27, 2016, 18:46
Its called competition I'm afraid you might have to get used to it.....just like the old pros who used macrostock 

One middleman ending up in control of a market isn't 'competition', it's the opposite.

I don't think this is the case according to the poll on the right they have about 30% of the market which is too high but hardly "control"

They aren't quite there yet but the handwriting is on the wall. They don't need 100%; they're already big enough that they control price and no new competitors can come in.  The remaining ones are being steadily squeezed out or sold off.  And don't pin your hopes on Adobe; they're just acquiring stock archives to wring more money out of Photoshop.

Last time I checked Fotolia were accepting new images while I agree there is a danger its a much more open market than in the days of macro sites when a small cabal of suppliers held sway and of course Getty still take full advantage of their near monopoly of historic pics

Yes that's true; I think Adobe probably doesn't really have a plan, this was just some exec's hot idea and who knows where it will end up.   

The internet created new opportunities for photographers: anyone could get into the game and sell photos. But the downside was that a handful of middlemen were able to gain control of the online photo market, keep buyers and producers from ever coming into contact, and totally exploit the situation despite adding little value to the product.  What's needed now is what economists call 'disntermediation' and we call 'cutting out the middleman'.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disintermediation

You can do this anytime, even today, by deleting your port from all agencies and fly solo. Do your own marketing, your own sales calls, etc. What stops you?

Quote from: gbalex on January 27, 2016, 22:24

Quote from: Pauws99 on January 27, 2016, 21:51

Quote from: gbalex on January 27, 2016, 21:14

Quote from: Pauws99 on January 27, 2016, 18:46
Its called competition I'm afraid you might have to get used to it.....just like the old pros who used macrostock 

Competition is good and improves our work. I have no problem with the merit system as long as the search cards are not stacked against you. That was the case before shutterstock introduced its post IPO search to increase stock prices.

Great for Jon and friends but crap for the rest of us. The new tiered EL's allow to SS to manipulate maximize profit further.

Having reread what you said I think I was being unfair although wouldn't be simpler for SS to simply pay a flat rate to everyone rather than create sophisticated algorithms and risk alienating customers. I don't have the evidence but couldn't it just be that the tide of new images is flooding you like everyone else?

If that was the case it would not have happened overnight in one day. The drop would have been gradual and dynamic according to the new content we upload.

Have you ever considered that the "old way" might have been the "wrong way"?
Maybe your photos were over-ranked by the early version of the search algorithm, making difficult for new and fresh content to penetrate the top pages.
This might have been an issue for customers who were constantly offered the same "old" stuff. Good for you, but bad for them.
The new and improved search algorithm is more dynamic, allowing fresh content to climb the ranks faster. See the observation made by Minscer: "it can take as little as 3 downloads to get to the first page". I concur with his observation.

So most probably you benefited from a privilege which got taken away from you, while making the competition fair for both newcomers and veterans.

I fully understand your frustration.

Search algorithms change all the time. Google change their search algorithm all the time. Apple change their app store algorithm to make results more relevant. Each time, the one who loses spots in the rankings are usually the loudest. It's the same with microstock.

If you lose your ranking on SS, do something about it. Adjust the keywords to make it more searchable. If you do nothing, it's your own fault, not anyone else's. You can't expect the world to stay the same while you improve. This is why learning SEO is super important for microstock. If you don't learn to compete in a tougher environment, you're only going to get frustrated.

Got an EL today. 10$ (!) less than before. And I'm in the top tier.

Thanks shutterstock, I really feel like a partner now.

I'll wait for like a month before making a decision, but by the looks of it, I'll opt out from EL's.

"This is why learning SEO is super important for microstock"

There's no class on 'learning SEO for microstock'.  Because there's nothing to do, aside from using appropriate titles and descriptive keywords.

yup... so many naive people in the world

Quote from: Sean Locke Photography on January 28, 2016, 01:37
"This is why learning SEO is super important for microstock"

There's no class on 'learning SEO for microstock'.  Because there's nothing to do, aside from using appropriate titles and descriptive keywords.

There are ways to optimize metadata for the SS search engine. Proper titles, proper keywording, long tail keywords. Off the top of my head, there are another 3 more ways to improve the visibility of images even more. On top of that, good optimization will lead to higher image results on Bing and Google, which will lead to more sales and overall better search ranking on SS.

There is no class for it, but that doesn't mean there isn't a lot to learn.

Quote from: Zero Talent on January 27, 2016, 23:39
Have you ever considered that the "old way" might have been the "wrong way"?
Maybe your photos were over-ranked by the early version of the search algorithm, making difficult for new and fresh content to penetrate the top pages.
This might have been an issue for customers who were constantly offered the same "old" stuff. Good for you, but bad for them.
The new and improved search algorithm is more dynamic, allowing fresh content to climb the ranks faster. See the observation made by Minscer: "it can take as little as 3 downloads to get to the first page". I concur with his observation.

So most probably you benefited from a privilege which got taken away from you, while making the competition fair for both newcomers and veterans.

I fully understand your frustration.

It is understandable that because you are relatively new and the new search is placing your images on prime pages that this would be your perspective. It is based only on your own limited experience.

To use your words, the old search "allowed fresh content to climb the ranks". I found that fair and had no problem producing new and successful content. That changed "OVERNIGHT" when they introduced the new improved post IPO search. In one fell swoop overnight my new images died on the vine never to see the light of day.

Ask some of the old timers how their new content is doing. I would say that you are fairly arrogant if you can actually look them in the eye and toss out your reoccurring diss that they need to up their game and that their content is outdated and inferior when the change in sales happened over night.

You only confirm what normally happens when the search algorithms are changed.
And such changes can happen "OVERNIGHT" and not only "post IPO".

I find perfectly justifiable to constantly fine tune and improve the search algorithm in order to make easier for customers to find what they need. There are patents and PHD thesis dealing with such algorithms.
Do you expect a company like SS to stick forever to some 10 years old dusty algorithm only because it used to work in your favor?

Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk

Quote from: Minscer on January 28, 2016, 02:32

Quote from: Sean Locke Photography on January 28, 2016, 01:37
"This is why learning SEO is super important for microstock"

There's no class on 'learning SEO for microstock'.  Because there's nothing to do, aside from using appropriate titles and descriptive keywords.

There are ways to optimize metadata for the SS search engine. Proper titles, proper keywording, long tail keywords. Off the top of my head, there are another 3 more ways to improve the visibility of images even more. On top of that, good optimization will lead to higher image results on Bing and Google, which will lead to more sales and overall better search ranking on SS.

There is no class for it, but that doesn't mean there isn't a lot to learn.

LOL!  Adorable!  We'll Sean, guess you just got schooled. You must bee doing it all wrong.  Obviously you have a lot to learn from Minscer. 

Quote from: PixelBytes on January 28, 2016, 03:51

Quote from: Minscer on January 28, 2016, 02:32

Quote from: Sean Locke Photography on January 28, 2016, 01:37
"This is why learning SEO is super important for microstock"

There's no class on 'learning SEO for microstock'.  Because there's nothing to do, aside from using appropriate titles and descriptive keywords.

There are ways to optimize metadata for the SS search engine. Proper titles, proper keywording, long tail keywords. Off the top of my head, there are another 3 more ways to improve the visibility of images even more. On top of that, good optimization will lead to higher image results on Bing and Google, which will lead to more sales and overall better search ranking on SS.

There is no class for it, but that doesn't mean there isn't a lot to learn.

LOL!  Adorable!  We'll Sean, guess you just got schooled. You must bee doing it all wrong.  Obviously you have a lot to learn from Minscer. 

We all have a lot to learn from each other. Sean is a great photographer, but even he isn't an expert in everything.

Your sarcasm aside, if you choose to believe that it won't work, then it won't work for you. If I believe that I can take advantage of the nuances of the system, then it will work for me. That's all there is to it.

Just got my first for 17 dollars. We will see if the volume increases.

Quit the whining and navel gazing take some positive action and opt out of Enhanced Licenses; I have

The microstock community forced Fotolia's hand on Dollar Photo Club which eventually dissappeared so they can do the same with this SS rubbish 

Quote from: Minscer on January 28, 2016, 02:32
There are ways to optimize metadata for the SS search engine. Proper titles, proper keywording, long tail keywords. Off the top of my head, there are another 3 more ways to improve the visibility of images even more. On top of that, good optimization will lead to higher image results on Bing and Google, which will lead to more sales and overall better search ranking on SS.

OK, Mr Specialist Subject: The Bleedin' Obvious.
Once you've done that, what do you change when "Search algorithms change all the time. Google change their search algorithm all the time."