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Author Topic: SS not reporting sales? - Solved  (Read 13947 times)

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Valo

« Reply #75 on: August 26, 2014, 12:22 »
+9
This is very peculiar forum.


« Reply #76 on: August 26, 2014, 12:51 »
+10
Sue been posting for years here.  She uses same name as on Istock.  She never change her name or went anonymous.   I am confused. By what definition is she a troll? 

ShadySue

« Reply #77 on: August 26, 2014, 13:05 »
+6
Sue been posting for years here.  She uses same name as on Istock.  She never change her name or went anonymous.   I am confused. By what definition is she a troll?
The only other person to accuse me of trolling was Lobo.
 ;D
(It's not exactly the same name, but I make no effort to be anonymous, nor have I had another account or name here.)

« Reply #78 on: August 26, 2014, 13:10 »
+3
Sue been posting for years here.  She uses same name as on Istock.  She never change her name or went anonymous.   I am confused. By what definition is she a troll?
The only other person to accuse me of trolling was Lobo.
 ;D
(It's not exactly the same name, but I make no effort to be anonymous, nor have I had another account or name here.)

For whatever it's worth I always enjoy your insights. 

« Reply #79 on: August 26, 2014, 14:29 »
0
Sue been posting for years here.  She uses same name as on Istock.  She never change her name or went anonymous.   I am confused. By what definition is she a troll?
There was no reason to bring me into this discussion nor to be insulting in doing so.  Look around and you can see nearly every day people are leaving this site.  Name calling to earn points or for whatever the reason was is not doing anyone any good.  I've put her on ignore so hopefully I have no reason to be in this thread anymore and people can discuss the topic at hand without that distraction.  Isn't that what this site is for?

Beppe Grillo

« Reply #80 on: August 26, 2014, 15:02 »
+2
[] Look around and you can see nearly every day people are leaving this site.  []

And every day new people are arriving.
So are forums

« Reply #81 on: August 26, 2014, 15:08 »
+5
Sue been posting for years here.  She uses same name as on Istock.  She never change her name or went anonymous.   I am confused. By what definition is she a troll?
The only other person to accuse me of trolling was Lobo.
 ;D
(It's not exactly the same name, but I make no effort to be anonymous, nor have I had another account or name here.)

we know SS IS wolves lurk here in sheep clothing , so u never know  ;)

« Reply #82 on: August 26, 2014, 15:59 »
+2
Sue been posting for years here.  She uses same name as on Istock.  She never change her name or went anonymous.   I am confused. By what definition is she a troll?
The only other person to accuse me of trolling was Lobo.
 ;D
(It's not exactly the same name, but I make no effort to be anonymous, nor have I had another account or name here.)

we know SS IS wolves lurk here in sheep clothing , so u never know  ;)

I think that there are site reps here, however I don't think ShadySue, is one of them.

Both she and ticktock have relevant info to contribute to our conversations.  The sites most likely love it, when we are at each others throats.

« Last Edit: August 26, 2014, 20:47 by gbalex »

« Reply #83 on: August 26, 2014, 16:00 »
+2
Back on topic

Since shutterstock is representing our work, they really do need to explain how and why their site is writing relevant keyword information to their database field "Downloads per Keyword:"

While they are not recording any sales for the concurrent/linked images to those keywords in the "Total Purchases" database field.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2014, 09:12 by gbalex »

Batman

« Reply #84 on: August 27, 2014, 11:01 »
+2
Sue been posting for years here.  She uses same name as on Istock.  She never change her name or went anonymous.   I am confused. By what definition is she a troll?
There was no reason to bring me into this discussion nor to be insulting in doing so.  Look around and you can see nearly every day people are leaving this site.  Name calling to earn points or for whatever the reason was is not doing anyone any good.  I've put her on ignore so hopefully I have no reason to be in this thread anymore and people can discuss the topic at hand without that distraction.  Isn't that what this site is for?

I see you found your old name again. Somebody told me you were an IS spy. I don't know where these rumors come from. Now somebody says Sue, who's an IS exclusive, is working for SS? That's more then name calling, and out of place.

The iS-cheerleader has regenerated and feels his old posts weren't relevant any more, so deleted them.
I don't think there are any more in msg. Even the main one on iS is quivering a bit.

Right after he was exposed as the same peep. I don't know why Leaf allows anonymous people to swap names, it doesn't change anything. They are still unwilling to stand behind their posts with a real name.

There's no reason for SS to fail to report sales, and using a beta search or site list to claim this is wrong. Premium customers also get preview downloads free. I don't have these errors and I can't look at the keywords used to see if they are from the right pictures. Could be just another database error. SS or IS have no reason to cheat us to make a few pennies more.

« Reply #85 on: August 27, 2014, 11:21 »
0
I don't know why Leaf allows anonymous people to swap names, it doesn't change anything. They are still unwilling to stand behind their posts with a real name.
Good point Mr. Batman.

Now how about keeping me out of this I have nothing to add to this discussion, bringing me into it is just distracting from any real issue there might be.

« Reply #86 on: August 27, 2014, 11:44 »
+3
I don't know how this thread turned into a 4 year old fight. Can we please stay focused on the issue here?

It's been a week since the topic was created we're yet to hear a decent reply from SS. If this is just a mistake, why they don't simply come here and explain reasonably why we are seeing all the facts mentioned so far?

Don't get me wrong, SS is the best agency. It's clear, reliable and with a great communication with contributors. I guess we all appreciate that, but we have to know what's happening there so we can all move on.

« Reply #87 on: August 27, 2014, 12:11 »
0

There's no reason for SS to fail to report sales, and using a beta search or site list to claim this is wrong. Premium customers also get preview downloads free. I don't have these errors and I can't look at the keywords used to see if they are from the right pictures. Could be just another database error. SS or IS have no reason to cheat us to make a few pennies more.

Because you do not see these errors does not mean that other people are as fortunate as you are.

Shutterstock takes advantage of the fact that people do not understand databases or site applications. 

Image Gallery Stats is not a search and the page has nothing to do with the buyer search. Sales information recorded or written to the shutterstock database for our images should be correct 100% of the time.

The "Image Gallery Stats" page is simply a database query that reports what is stored in the database fields for each image in your portfolio.  Thus it is called Image Gallery Stats. It is the information that shutterstock has recorded for each sale we have in our portfolio for each and every image.

The information is pulled based on each individual image ID in your own gallery via your Shutterstock Gallery ID "Shutterstock ID:"

The simple query pulls information from just 6 database fields in several tables in shutterstocks database and this is a very simple thing to do. The fields the query pulls information from are as follows. 

"Downloads per Keyword:"

"Total Purchases"

"Total Earned"

"Date Uploaded"

"Image Thumbnail"

"Image Description"

It is not so hard to understand that if the database field "Downloads per Keyword:" has keyword information in it, a buyer has purchased and downloaded a file.  Thus the database - field label, Downloads per keyword.



« Last Edit: August 27, 2014, 12:30 by gbalex »

Uncle Pete

« Reply #88 on: August 27, 2014, 14:51 »
0
I'm with you and I'll try to stay on topic. I thought someone from SS did come here, or am I imagining things? Something about promotional DLs? And even though gbalex makes some points, I'm for now a fan of "Database Errors" until someone can locate a suitable explanation that establishes that A) We are missing DLs and credit is due or B) There's a reporting error of some sort, and we aren't missing income.

I can't make the leap of logic, that SS is not reporting sales is a fair assumption based on some keywords showing for images with no sales, or Undiscovered showing or not showing some image. I mean, didn't someone say they had files with DLs showing in that? I've never seen proof, just someone saying that.

I don't know how this thread turned into a 4 year old fight. Can we please stay focused on the issue here?

It's been a week since the topic was created we're yet to hear a decent reply from SS. If this is just a mistake, why they don't simply come here and explain reasonably why we are seeing all the facts mentioned so far?

Don't get me wrong, SS is the best agency. It's clear, reliable and with a great communication with contributors. I guess we all appreciate that, but we have to know what's happening there so we can all move on.

« Reply #89 on: August 27, 2014, 15:58 »
-1
It is strange that some of the newest uploads are showing up in the first spot when sorted by most popular even though they've never been downloaded but I guess it's possible that none of the other files have ever been downloaded before.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2014, 16:02 by tickstock »

« Reply #90 on: August 28, 2014, 11:18 »
0
SS is a good seller but somehow, with many big or small reasons, I do not completely trust the company.

« Reply #91 on: August 28, 2014, 12:04 »
+8
SS is a good seller but somehow, with many big or small reasons, I do not completely trust the company.

Have you met the other players yet?


« Reply #92 on: August 28, 2014, 14:24 »
0
SS is a good seller but somehow, with many big or small reasons, I do not completely trust the company.

Have you met the other players yet?

Yeah, 5 years ago.

« Reply #93 on: August 29, 2014, 08:45 »
+10
Hi guys,

Sorry for the delay, but we put together a high-level FAQ addressing some questions raised in this and other threads.  Doing this FAQ- or article-style is sometimes more practical than addressing lots of individual variations of similar questions, but hopefully this sheds some light on the questions raised.  Part of this is a re-post from a thread at SS; but I've also added info specific to the topics in this thread.

Understanding Search
 
We often get asked how our search rankings work.  The first important thing to note is that there isnt one singular search and discovery experience at Shutterstock.  In addition to the core search experience at
Shutterstock.com, we have Palette, Instant, Spectrum, and People search; mobile apps like our iPad app; as well as different sort orders such as New, Popular, Relevant, and Undiscovered. We also have Bigstock and Offset. There are many ways for customers to get to your images, including direct visits from Google, and many ways for them to filter the collection for specific file types like vectors or video. We localize our results for specific countries as well - i.e., it makes sense for Japanese customers searching in Japanese to see the most appropriate results for their own language. 
 
Our search rankings are complex and based on a number of factors. Keywords, freshness, and popularity (downloads) all factor into search results.  We focus on providing customers with the best image that matches their needs and we dont favor specific contributors or portfolios. Location can be a factor when the search query calls for it (for example, streets of New York), or when region-specific results are appropriate.   
 
We believe that if we always match the best possible media with a customer, over time this will lead to more satisfied customers, and in the end more downloads (and more royalties) for our contributors. That belief has delivered over 400 million paid image licenses to date. 
 
How is my media ranked in each sort order? 

The Shutterstock search engine uses a wide variety of factors to match a customer with the media he or she is looking for.  This engine is tuned to generate four types of search experiences, or sort orders: New, Popular, Relevant, and Undiscovered.  You can think of a sort order as a customized version of the core search experience.   

The algorithm that powers the Relevant sort order tries to find the best match between what a customers needs and the media that best serves those needs.  To do this we leverage a wide variety of factors, including how well the query matches the keywords, but also factors such as downloads or other data.  There is no one factor that dictates the position media will appear in the search results; rather, it is a combination of many different factors.

The New sort order is a subset of the Relevant sort order, but with an emphasis toward newer content.  Older content can and does appear in the New sort order, but will be ranked lower than relevant newer content. 

The Popular sort order is similar to Relevant, but it factors downloads much more strongly than the Relevant sort order.  However, highly relevant content with less downloads will still rank well than less relevant content with lots of downloads.

Finally, the Undiscovered sort order is similar to the Relevant sort order, filtered so as to only include results with zero downloads. 

Why is my media not showing up higher in the popular sort order even if I have more downloads?

The Popular sort order leverages downloads and other customer signals to boost popular results higher than they would appear in the Relevant sort order.  While downloads is a significant factor, it is not the only factor, and a very good relevance match will take precedence.  Also, media that is ranked well in one query will not necessarily be ranked well in another.  For example, a family at the dinner table might rank quite highly for the query Family, but not as high for the query Family at the Beach, even if it has more downloads than higher ranked photos in that query. 

Why is my photo with zero downloads not showing up in undiscovered? 

The Undiscovered sort order is similar to the Relevant sort order, filtered so that all results have zero downloads.  Depending on whether the results above have downloads, for each query media with zero downloads will appear in the same or better position as the Relevant sort order.  If your media doesnt appear in the Relevant sort order it wont appear in the Undiscovered sort order either. Like all sort orders, the search result position will depend primarily on how well the query matches to the media. 

Sometimes theres a delay in the time it takes for our algorithms to register a download, and media will briefly remain in the undiscovered sort order even after it has been downloaded. 

Image Gallery Stats

The Image Gallery Stats page as been in beta and can include preview or comp images provided to trusted companies like major advertising agencies for consideration for purchase.  Weve discussed those images elsewhere in public forums, but those preview downloads are part of enterprise agreements where customers are paying up to hundreds of dollars for a license once they select an image for actual use or purchase (with royalties of up $120 or more).  There is no usage license granted until the buyer purchases the image.  Preview or Comp images for these types of enterprise buyers are very common in the stock industry. Shutterstock contributors earn much higher royalties for downloads when an actual purchase is made.

Its important to note that your Earnings Summary is the primary place to find your paid downloads; the Image Gallery Stats page should not be used for that purpose.

Download Map

The Download map shows an assortment of recent customer downloads of your images, which could include preview images (see above) and redownloads.  The location on the map is an approximation, due to the size of the map and other considerations. Like gallery stats, the download map should be looked at as a source of interesting information, not the place to derive highly precise information about your downloads and earnings.

About Testing, and Making Changes Thoughtfully
 
Search is powered by a set of services that include machine-learning algorithms: a type of software that is able to improve over time. In a very simple sense, the goal of an algorithm is maximize downloads. To get the right media in front of a customer, the algorithm takes many factors into account, such as how well the keyword matches a search query, or the past success of this particular photo, music clip, or video.  For some search queries, customers are looking for newer content or content that has not been used before, and the algorithm will leverage factors such as the age of the media; for other queries, age is less important.  There are many, many other factors that the algorithm takes into account, and we are adding more every day.  One of the ways we improve our algorithm over time is to add new factors.  We are also frequently making small changes in how the algorithm weighs these factors.
 
In practice, some of the changes we make dont always work out for the best, so when we make a change, we need a way of knowing if its a good idea.  We achieve this through an experimentation process called A/B testing.  In an A/B test, a typically small amount of our customer base is put into an experiment in which weve changed the algorithm, and well measure how well it performs relative to a control group.  There are often many such experiments going on at Shutterstock, and its probable that youve been in more than one if you are a regular Shutterstock user.  If a change results in more downloads or improvements in other key metrics, it will usually find its way into the production experience.  If not, well move on and try something else.  You can think of the process a little like evolution we are constantly getting slightly better through a process of trial and error in very small amounts. In general, we will only ship an algorithm change if it results in more downloads, and thus more income for our contributors. 


Best,

Scott
VP of Content
Shutterstock

« Reply #94 on: August 29, 2014, 08:48 »
+2
Quote
In general, we will only ship an algorithm change if it results in more downloads, and thus more income for our contributors. 

That's a little bit ingenious, more downloads or income for SS as a while is not the same as benefiting a contributor on an individual basis.


« Reply #96 on: August 29, 2014, 09:15 »
+2
Thanks Scott - Topic solved.

« Reply #97 on: August 29, 2014, 09:29 »
+1
Thank-you Scott for that very concise search explanation.

« Reply #98 on: August 29, 2014, 09:33 »
0
Hi GnirtS,

An individual contributor could be affected by a single tweak to the algorithm, but experiments are generally pretty small in terms of exposure to the customer user base, and as mentioned, our algorithm is constantly maturing. Performance should be viewed over many experiments, and in the sense that downloads are gradually increasing across the entire business, it should almost always be a net positive over time as the customer base expands - there are over 1 million customers looking for images at Shutterstock, and as mentioned, we've passed 400 million paid downloads.

We study a lot of data and individual portfolio performance, and what I've found is that the things that affect performance in a far greater way are often things that you have control over (keywording, image quality, aesthetics, upload regularity, upload timing, subject matter, etc.).   There are many portfolios and individual images that will outperform based on the latter.  Sometimes, surprisingly so - images with the same subject matter can see huge differences in downloads based on how they were keyworded, composed, retouched, etc.   

Best,

Scott

Hi Scott,

Does "upload timing" have more to do with seasonality? If not can you elaborate?

« Reply #99 on: August 29, 2014, 09:38 »
0
Other than seasonal because of the way SS works (or until very recently when it just stopped working) you never ever wanted your photos approved on a Friday night or Saturday.

Generally new images are given a priority for a certain amount of time before being deranked by popular if they hadn't sold.  You could have 100 images go live on a Friday night but due to the search engine by the time people actually started buying on Mondays the images had sunk without trace never to sell.  It used to be all about timing stuff to go live on Monday to maximise exposure chance.



 

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