"Today, you need to have knowledge of SEO, marketing, a broad understanding of different fields and a mixed portfolio (instead of just a photography portfolio)."

You always needed these skills and many More If the Photography Business is what you choose. being a top Notch Commercial Photographer trumps all other tinfoil Hat theories. Being in business requires Business skills regardless of what your in business doing. Taking The pictures is the easiest part. getting and keeping Clients is far, FAR more difficult. SEO,Marketing,Promotion,personality,Being Out there more than the competition and a 100 other things are paramount if any success is wanted. There and always have been a zillion GREAT painters,Dancers,Photographers,musicians and anyone in the arts that will never be seen. because of not having the gift Of salesmanship,Promotion skills and Plain and simple Chutzpah I've met very few in my 55 year career making a very good living in the arts..And without even finishing High school. I knew at 16, I needed to get out and get on the road. and had my Dads blessing. He made me a fake ID and that was it. What I learned, No school was teaching.

I sold my first stock shot in 1968. My experience tells me one thing.... Those with a commercial view and know how to pull it off do a 1000 times better than those with college degrees on all the other crap. I teach and have known a LOT of folks that have 800 Images that way Outsell those with 8,000 and a college degree in marketing.

This business and every Other creative outlet is about Commercial Value. with that and your ability to hustle you will out perform anyone. i had this guy come to see me a few years ago from Italy. He  actually has 800 Images and makes $1,500 a week. would I show a link. No Way. He's a bartender. Pretty soon a studio owner.

I can look back and see My very good friend Yuri's work. His first 2 pages when he started was absolute garbage. In One image he changed and the sky opened and that was it. a thousand DL's a day followed. Then Much More. He was a Natural. and instantly Copied. He wrote the forward in my pardner and my first Book.

i had this guy come to see me a few years ago from Italy. He  actually has 800 Images and makes $1,500 a week. would I show a link. No Way. He's a bartender. Pretty soon a studio owner.

You have not checked his port, lately. He has 1309 images as of today

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"Today, you need to have knowledge of SEO, marketing, a broad understanding of different fields and a mixed portfolio (instead of just a photography portfolio)."

You always needed these skills and many More If the Photography Business is what you choose. being a top Notch Commercial Photographer trumps all other tinfoil Hat theories. Being in business requires Business skills regardless of what your in business doing. Taking The pictures is the easiest part. getting and keeping Clients is far, FAR more difficult. SEO,Marketing,Promotion,personality,Being Out there more than the competition and a 100 other things are paramount if any success is wanted. There and always have been a zillion GREAT painters,Dancers,Photographers,musicians and anyone in the arts that will never be seen. because of not having the gift Of salesmanship,Promotion skills and Plain and simple Chutzpah I've met very few in my 55 year career making a very good living in the arts..And without even finishing High school. I knew at 16, I needed to get out and get on the road. and had my Dads blessing. He made me a fake ID and that was it. What I learned, No school was teaching.

so true, all that you wrote here.
one look at the "arts" business and you will know it has nothing to do with ability...
from music (look at the best musicians... mostly starving... some till their death ...Lenny Breau is one example ... while lady gaga justin beiber make millions)... to yes, photography.
even art... as in painting... or one walk through the Musueam of "Fine Arts" or whatever they call it ...with toilet bowls to meat to paint strips to body with oranges,etc..
you know it has nothing to do with ability.

it's who you get to promote your work. the best selling authors have the best selling hustler working for them. 

i once knew a real estate salesman who told me he was selling used cars when he was 15, and learn how to "gyp people".  he was proud of it, and he became one of the biggest sellers in real estate during the boom.  he "hustled people" as he puts it, and he was proud of it.

Don't know what museums or galleries your going to. try to remember just because "YOU" don't like an artist doesn't hold much water other than "An Opinion" Luck? sure it happens all the time. Just as in Music. Most times Luck puts you there and Talent Keeps you there. being able to recognize the difference is a good thing. Some Hustle.....Most Don't. huge difference.Like I said The vast majority of great artists in any medium Will never be seen. Why?? Easy answer.

Quote from: stockmarketer on January 14, 2016, 10:41

I remember being a teenager and spouting off to my dad on my views of the world.  He would smile and tell me that I would learn the realities of the world soon enough.  It didn't take many years to show me he was right.  And a few decades later I find myself listening to my teenage son about how he sees the world, and I smile and tell him he will learn the realities of the world soon enough. 

I remember being new to microstock 8 years ago and coming to this forum saying how I had figured everything out, and the veterans tried telling me the reality of the market.  I laughed and said I had things figured out.  Today, I'm the veteran trying to talk reality to microstock newcomers, and the veterans of yesterday are nowhere to be seen.  It appears they've given up on microstock altogether.  Perhaps that's the future for us all.

We all have to make a conscious choice about who we want to be. Veterans (of any sort) like to talk a certain way, the way of the 'good ole days'. Despite the fact that I have more experience than many people in my field of work, I made a conscious choice to not talk like that, because it's a fairly pessimistic tone.

Many veterans of microstock are like veterans of any field. John McCain have experienced life more than any of us here, and yet he still don't know how to use a computer properly. He got beat out by a man half his age, someone more tech savvy. Many veterans (not all) are set in their own ways and doesn't pick up many new skills required to compete at a higher level.

There's a difference between 8 years ago and today. Today, you can't rely on the skills you learned 8 years ago. The market was young back then. What works then no longer works today. Today, you need to have knowledge of SEO, marketing, a broad understanding of different fields and a mixed portfolio (instead of just a photography portfolio). 5 years from now, different skills will be needed. The question is...will the veterans learn those new skills or will they give up altogether?

Yawn.  Your assumption that those who started 8 or more years have not improved their skills, don't understand SEO and marketing, etc. Is not just ignorant,  but also condescending.   And comparing veteran microstockers from a mere 8 years ago to an elderly man that can't use a computer is outright insulting.  (All due respect to Sen. McCain who is a genuine war hero)   Really, that's a completely inappropriate comparison.

Quote from: PixelBytes on January 17, 2016, 09:00

Quote from: BaldricksTrousers on January 14, 2016, 13:17

Quote from: stockmarketer on January 14, 2016, 10:41

the veterans of yesterday are nowhere to be seen.  It appears they've given up on microstock altogether.  Perhaps that's the future for us all.

I'm still around. Even though other things have meant that I haven't been uploading for almost a year I'm still shooting stuff for later use and the sales are still coming in, though my earnings are not much more than half what they once were.
It's not a game I would recommend to others, though: the earnings from new files dropped so much that it would seem to be pretty pointless putting in the effort to build a diverse portfolio of 5,000 or 10,000 files - but once you do have those numbers the portfolio provides a significant return for a long time. It probably took me an hour per file uploaded, once shooting, selecting, processing, keywording, uploading (keywording again for IS and Alamy)etc.  was all added up. 10,000 hours is five working years. Say you reckon you should earn at least $50,000 a year, that means the effort in producing 10,000 files should deliver $250,000 in eventual earnings. I doubt if there are many who could achieve anywhere near that sort of return starting now with the market as it is.

Thank you for coming back on the forums.  Your perspective was missed alot when you were gone.  I completely agree with the above post and have the exact same experience.   Earning less than half what I did at my best really stings for me tho.  I am not yet able to be philosophical about it.

Agree. I have transitioned to video and shoot way less stills for stock, and it is taking my video sales to barely keep me at my monthly average. Without video, I would be down roughly $500 a month from two years ago.  The biggest killer from an agency tactical perspective is probably the push for more sub customers by masquerading credit sales as subs. 5-paks, 10-pack subs instead of high volume for which subs were meant to align. And agencies like DT who is now doing income re-distribution....fairness for everyone regardless of commitment to the business, quality of work or port size. And of course you have the FOTOLIA and DP types both of whom were caught red-handed ripping off contributors.  The models to accept everything are affecting search quality and pumping junk into the collections.  Bundling all of this into the MS model is making it hard for us to even retain income, let alone grow it.

Sorry, off my rant now. Not trying to hijack this thread.   

Your post is not hijacking.  The agency stunts are a huge part of the reason sales and incomes.have declined so badly.

The agency stunts are a huge part of the reason sales and incomes.have declined so badly.

Well .... this is such a popular sad song on this forum!

Those "stunts" are NOT the main reason.

The main reason is technology. Technology gave us better equipment than ever. Technology gave us a plethora of free or cheap courses, making easy for hobbyists to successfully compete against veteran microstockers.

I'm not saying that veterans are not able to keep up with the technology. I'm only saying that there are a lot more good photographers today, than 8-10 years ago. I read somewhere that "Photography" is one of the most popular "last names" on Facebook. 

The abundance of good photos drives their price down.
All agencies will always push their luck until it hurts, because this is how free markets work, like or not.

Moving towards new revenue streams (e.g. video, as Mantis does) is a healthier decision than constantly bitching, moaning and whining about inevitable changes.

Quote from: Minscer on January 14, 2016, 17:36

Quote from: stockmarketer on January 14, 2016, 10:41

I remember being a teenager and spouting off to my dad on my views of the world.  He would smile and tell me that I would learn the realities of the world soon enough.  It didn't take many years to show me he was right.  And a few decades later I find myself listening to my teenage son about how he sees the world, and I smile and tell him he will learn the realities of the world soon enough. 

I remember being new to microstock 8 years ago and coming to this forum saying how I had figured everything out, and the veterans tried telling me the reality of the market.  I laughed and said I had things figured out.  Today, I'm the veteran trying to talk reality to microstock newcomers, and the veterans of yesterday are nowhere to be seen.  It appears they've given up on microstock altogether.  Perhaps that's the future for us all.

We all have to make a conscious choice about who we want to be. Veterans (of any sort) like to talk a certain way, the way of the 'good ole days'. Despite the fact that I have more experience than many people in my field of work, I made a conscious choice to not talk like that, because it's a fairly pessimistic tone.

Many veterans of microstock are like veterans of any field. John McCain have experienced life more than any of us here, and yet he still don't know how to use a computer properly. He got beat out by a man half his age, someone more tech savvy. Many veterans (not all) are set in their own ways and doesn't pick up many new skills required to compete at a higher level.

There's a difference between 8 years ago and today. Today, you can't rely on the skills you learned 8 years ago. The market was young back then. What works then no longer works today. Today, you need to have knowledge of SEO, marketing, a broad understanding of different fields and a mixed portfolio (instead of just a photography portfolio). 5 years from now, different skills will be needed. The question is...will the veterans learn those new skills or will they give up altogether?

Yawn.  Your assumption that those who started 8 or more years have not improved their skills, don't understand SEO and marketing, etc. Is not just ignorant,  but also condescending.   And comparing veteran microstockers from a mere 8 years ago to an elderly man that can't use a computer is outright insulting.  (All due respect to Sen. McCain who is a genuine war hero)   Really, that's a completely inappropriate comparison.

I don't get insulted by anything here, so why should you?

And I don't make those type of assumptions without any research. I've seen some of the meta data by some 'veterans' and I'm telling it like it is. Some of it is poorly done and I'm not going to be fluffy about it.

With so many images out there, with so much competition from everywhere, and people complaining about download numbers going down, it baffles me why so many images are not optimized for the SS search engine or Google, since they index every image from Shutterstock.

Quote from: Zero Talent on January 17, 2016, 18:38

Quote from: PixelBytes on January 17, 2016, 09:18

The agency stunts are a huge part of the reason sales and incomes.have declined so badly.

Well .... this is such a popular sad song on this forum!

Those "stunts" are NOT the main reason.

The main reason is technology. Technology gave us better equipment than ever. Technology gave us a plethora of free or cheap courses, making easy for hobbyists to successfully compete against veteran microstockers.

I'm not saying that veterans are not able to keep up with the technology. I'm only saying that there are a lot more good photographers today, than 8-10 years ago. I read somewhere that "Photography" is one of the most popular "last names" on Facebook. 

The abundance of good photos drives their price down.
All agencies will always push their luck until it hurts, because this is how free markets work, like or not.

Moving towards new revenue streams (e.g. video, as Mantis does) is a healthier decision than constantly bitching, moaning and whining about inevitable changes.

What was not inevitable, nor a natural progression in the industry, is the many shenanigans by the agencies that have cut royalties annually,, finding every way possible to xfer more of the income generated by content creators into the pockets of shareholders and venture capital firms who add no actual value to the companies, but instead skim off the cream and pile on debt.

The validity of the oversupply argument does not negate the greedy or mismanaged agencies argument.  They are both happening, and accerating the rate at which this business is becoming untenable for serious content providers.

Hmm... why are you surprised to see companies trying to squeeze their suppliers? It doesn't happen in this business only. It happens all the time, on all economical branches.The music industry pushes their suppliers, Apple pushes their suppliers, Costco pushes their suppliers, Ikea pushes their suppliers etc.

A company has the duty to always push the limit, as long as the market tolerates the push, until the push is about to fire back.
It is naive to belive that microstock agencies are different. These are not charities.
The abundance of good photos and good photographers allows them to take more risks than before.

Good management actually means understanding how far they can go without alienating their suppliers, their customers, their employees and their investors. Good management means constantly pushing the limits and testing the market.

When someone crosses the limits set by the free market (=mismanagement) competition takes care of the mistake, forcing either a correction or bankruptcy, when management does't realize it.

One more thing: there is no such thing as greed. There is self interrest, we all defend it, and that's the fundamental energy which generates progress.

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Quote from: Zero Talent on January 18, 2016, 07:52

One more thing: there is no such thing as greed. There is self interrest, we all defend it, and that's the fundamental energy which generates progress.

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What a load of crap.

I'm sure you are not greedy, because, obviously, only others are.

Sorry I woke you up! Keep dreaming

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Quote from: Zero Talent on January 18, 2016, 08:05

Quote from: Micro4 on January 18, 2016, 08:01

Quote from: Zero Talent on January 18, 2016, 07:52

One more thing: there is no such thing as greed. There is self interrest, we all defend it, and that's the fundamental energy which generates progress.

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What a load of crap.

I'm sure you are not greedy, because, obviously, only others are.

Sorry I woke you up! Keep dreaming

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Greed is wanting more than you need and yes there is such a thing as greed, look at Donald Trump. But not everyone is greedy. I live a modest life and walked away from that race for more 15 years ago. I have what I need and I want nothing more. I do stock as retirement income (not retired yet but must think of the future) and because it's the only avenue that allows me to create whatever image I want without having to follow a client's directions. Greed is a sickness and one in which the infected don't know there's anything wrong with them. Tragic really.

What you "need" is so relative! This is why your definition is flawed.

Are your needs the same as some poor African farmer needs? To him, you are greedy, because you have much more than he needs. Similarly, corporations appear greedy to you.

Is your household making more than $9,733/year? If yes, then you are greedy because you make more than half of the world population. You can flaunt your modest life only after you donate to charity everything in excess of $9,733/year.
 You don't need much to be happy: food, shelter and love. Do you have more than this? Do you have a cell phone, a car, a TV, a computer? Then you have more than you need. Always think at the poor African farmer before you tap yourself on the shoulder with satisfaction. Otherwise, it is only hypocrisy.
Self interest (which include the interests of your family and your community) is embedded in human nature and beyond, even if you don't like to admit it. Without it, mankind would have been stuck in stone age, or worse.

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