MicrostockGroup
Agency Based Discussion => Shutterstock.com => Topic started by: Groman on January 06, 2016, 11:06
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I have low sales this week. In 2015 january firs week is good, but this year starting very bad :(
Anyone else?
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Yes, every 2016 it is the same story… maybe because they are bissextile years…
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1st week 2016 looks like it's my worst week on SS in several years.
Let's hope things get back to normal soon.
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Worse than my first month 5 years ago!
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This week is slower than christmas week
Very slow
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+1
despite one EL yesterday
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It's off to a slow start on SS. Monday started out decently, but yesterday was well below average. Today seem to be picking up a bit more.
On FT, it's off to a good start so far.
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are you seriously discussing a poor 2016 not even a week in of which 4 days were basically holidays? my word, only 359 days to go
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Only subs sales so far, that's unusual and makes a huge difference from this time last year.
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stock markets are terrible also.... something like worst 1st week ever on record???
doom and gloom... doom and gloom
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Download numbers are back to normal for me. I think it'll pick back up for everyone next week if they haven't.
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2016 has only just started! The first half of January could be expected to be slow
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When I went to bed last night I was scared the sky had fallen in...........I woke up this morning and the sun was shining....get some perspective folks 8)
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It's exactly the same sales pattern on SS this year as it has been for a long time. January is always a bit of a slow month, especially at the start - and I've been with SS for 12 Januaries.
Pauws - if you've seen the sun this morning you ain't where I am! South Wales is just notching up its 67th consecutive day with rain, which must be a bit of a record even for Wales. The sky has definitely been falling!
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Lots of folks extend their Christmas break until January 6 in Europe and the Eastern Orthodox Church celebrates Christmas on January 7. So it's a bit early to sound the alarm bells.
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Lots of folks extend their Christmas break until January 6 in Europe and the Eastern Orthodox Church celebrates Christmas on January 7. So it's a bit early to sound the alarm bells.
That's it then ! The orthodox church folk are still on holiday. No wonder I have dire sales so far for 2016. ;)
Holidays ended on Jan 6th so what happened to the last few days ?
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Holidays are one thing but it's almost halfway through the month and Shutterstock is neck and neck with Dreamstime for me right now. Either DT has suddenly become a heavy hitter again or SS is down for me.
Right now I'm wondering if I'll make it to $100 bucks and I haven't worried about that in 2 and a half years.
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same here - worst december and january in 5 years
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Totally agree. The stats are not very motivating.
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It's exactly the same sales pattern on SS this year as it has been for a long time. January is always a bit of a slow month, especially at the start - and I've been with SS for 12 Januaries.
Pauws - if you've seen the sun this morning you ain't where I am! South Wales is just notching up its 67th consecutive day with rain, which must be a bit of a record even for Wales. The sky has definitely been falling!
Not quite that bad in Essex but seemingly grey for months for what its worth I'm having a fairly reasonable January after a horrible Dec on SS but well within the range of statistical variability 8)
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same here - worst december and january in 5 years
Yep. Same here.
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BOTOTM ever!
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SS is not doing too bad for me considering the season but my FT sales are real bad like almost nothing happens :-\ In December FT was outselling SS for me at some point so I kinda relied on it in this difficult time ;D
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My sales are pretty poor too.
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Bad sales here!
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The answer is very simple and will surprise and shock you:
http://www.backyardsilver.com/2016/01/a-stock-photographers-year/ (http://www.backyardsilver.com/2016/01/a-stock-photographers-year/)
Steve
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The answer is very simple and will surprise and shock you:
[url]http://www.backyardsilver.com/2016/01/a-stock-photographers-year/[/url] ([url]http://www.backyardsilver.com/2016/01/a-stock-photographers-year/[/url])
Steve
Haha
Yes, it is so true! Go to work all.
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The answer is very simple and will surprise and shock you:
[url]http://www.backyardsilver.com/2016/01/a-stock-photographers-year/[/url] ([url]http://www.backyardsilver.com/2016/01/a-stock-photographers-year/[/url])
Steve
Lovely table - enjoyed it!
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I think I'll move to a topic of its own - I would never read a topic like very low sales in 2016 normally which rather defeats the object of my post.
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one of the worst new year start i have ever seen...in all the microstock channel i contribute
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Terrible start of the new year.
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My sales are pretty poor too.
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Same here. Down by a BIG percentage despite port size much larger by a BIG percentage.
I think 2016 will be the year many of us stop doing microstock.
What's the point anymore? Very depressing.
(To anyone saying "my sales are up" or "things are great", I ask, how long have you been at this? Sounds like newbies -- those at this less than 3 years -- are the ones seeing good numbers, and of course they are. It's the ms veterans who are all down and ready to quit. The newbies will be there soon!)
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fotolia is on fire
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fotolia is on fire
Really? Better call 9-11!
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fotolia is on fire
Is it? Is it on fire for people who have been contributing there for 8+ years? If you ask me, it was on fire in 2011. From where I sit, with a pretty large port that has traditionally sold well there, it's roughly where it was a year ago. Meaning that everything Adobe is doing to push FT is countering the general downward trends of MS. Everyone else is down and FT is pretty flat. I guess we have to take our victories where we can get them.
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I also sell so much subscription :( What happen with the non subscription sell? :( they change something in 2016?
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I also sell so much subscription :( What happen with the non subscription sell? :( they change something in 2016?
They are change the search engine again?
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I also sell so much subscription :( What happen with the non subscription sell? :( they change something in 2016?
I had two SOD sales. Both 0.33$. This is total disgrace.
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I sell 40 sub 0,38$ and 1 at 2,85$ very bad
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total disgrace humm pretty funny i sell 40 photos at 0,38$ and 1 at 2,xx$ that is very disgrace ;)
I also sell so much subscription :( What happen with the non subscription sell? :( they change something in 2016?
I had two SOD sales. Both 0.33$. This is total disgrace.
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Same here. Down by a BIG percentage despite port size much larger by a BIG percentage.
I think 2016 will be the year many of us stop doing microstock.
What's the point anymore? Very depressing.
(To anyone saying "my sales are up" or "things are great", I ask, how long have you been at this? Sounds like newbies -- those at this less than 3 years -- are the ones seeing good numbers, and of course they are. It's the ms veterans who are all down and ready to quit. The newbies will be there soon!)
So whats stopping you if it makes you so unhappy?
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fotolia is on fire
Fotolia has pretty much been my #1 since re-uploading there ... (I closed my account during the boycott, and went back after the Adobe deal)
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Fotolia has been on the rise recently for me also. Last couple of days was similar to SS.
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I just had my best day ever on Monday. ;D
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big thank you MichaelJayFoto for your help. your blog help me to pull out my istock exclusivity :) my life is so much better now. I am very happy to know your business running good too.
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Yes, mine is extremly bad too. Shutterstock and Fotolia are very poor, and Dreamstime is a bit better.
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Best Jan ever double 2013 or 2014 many days to go. Single & Other and On Demand are the difference.
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It would be interesting to hear how long people have been doing microstock when they claim best months ever. This type of talk is usually a dead giveaway for someone who hasn't been doing this very long. I don't hear many veterans saying things are great. But if you doubled your port size in the past year, you will of course have higher earnings. For those of us with a lot of years under our belts, we're only increasing our port sizes by, say 10 or 20% each year, and since the agencies are growing overall by more like 30 to 40% a year, on average we are falling behind. It's a numbers game, and if you're in it long enough, you lose.
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Keep uploading, that's everything! ;)
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It would be interesting to hear how long people have been doing microstock when they claim best months ever. This type of talk is usually a dead giveaway for someone who hasn't been doing this very long. I don't hear many veterans saying things are great. But if you doubled your port size in the past year, you will of course have higher earnings. For those of us with a lot of years under our belts, we're only increasing our port sizes by, say 10 or 20% each year, and since the agencies are growing overall by more like 30 to 40% a year, on average we are falling behind. It's a numbers game, and if you're in it long enough, you lose.
Veterans started when the market was young. You hear the same about veteran app developers who started when the App Store just opened. They were making tons of money and now they're making peanuts. The market has changed, but that doesn't mean there aren't opportunities. Veterans just have to play the game like everyone else now.
I started microstock a little less year ago and I was optimistic at the start and I still am. In a way, it is a numbers game, but there are a lot of intangibles and you can take advantage of to make a portfolio more successful. You can look at things another way...if you play the game enough, you'll have more experience and that gives you an edge.
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It would be interesting to hear how long people have been doing microstock when they claim best months ever. This type of talk is usually a dead giveaway for someone who hasn't been doing this very long.
Since I'm one of those who said they had a best day ever (not best month, though): I sold my first license in 2002 and took stock a bit more serious from 2007 onwards. Not sure if that counts as "very long" or "veteran". I'm still a hobbyist, even though I'm a full time hobbyist today. ;D
My best day ever on Monday was mainly caused by an Extended License sale at Stocksy plus a very large SOD at Shutterstock on the same day. Add to that, the buyers seems to have to returned to their desks this week.
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Add to that, the buyers seems to have to returned to their desks this week.
I've noticed that too. After a long dry spell from Christmas through last weekend, this week has picked up nicely for me on all three of my stock sites. May the sales continue!
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Add to that, the buyers seems to have to returned to their desks this week.
I've noticed that too. After a long dry spell from Christmas through last weekend, this week has picked up nicely for me on all three of my stock sites. May the sales continue!
Hell yes!!! :)
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It would be interesting to hear how long people have been doing microstock when they claim best months ever. This type of talk is usually a dead giveaway for someone who hasn't been doing this very long. I don't hear many veterans saying things are great. But if you doubled your port size in the past year, you will of course have higher earnings. For those of us with a lot of years under our belts, we're only increasing our port sizes by, say 10 or 20% each year, and since the agencies are growing overall by more like 30 to 40% a year, on average we are falling behind. It's a numbers game, and if you're in it long enough, you lose.
Veterans started when the market was young. You hear the same about veteran app developers who started when the App Store just opened. They were making tons of money and now they're making peanuts. The market has changed, but that doesn't mean there aren't opportunities. Veterans just have to play the game like everyone else now.
I started microstock a little less year ago and I was optimistic at the start and I still am. In a way, it is a numbers game, but there are a lot of intangibles and you can take advantage of to make a portfolio more successful. You can look at things another way...if you play the game enough, you'll have more experience and that gives you an edge.
I remember being a teenager and spouting off to my dad on my views of the world. He would smile and tell me that I would learn the realities of the world soon enough. It didn't take many years to show me he was right. And a few decades later I find myself listening to my teenage son about how he sees the world, and I smile and tell him he will learn the realities of the world soon enough.
I remember being new to microstock 8 years ago and coming to this forum saying how I had figured everything out, and the veterans tried telling me the reality of the market. I laughed and said I had things figured out. Today, I'm the veteran trying to talk reality to microstock newcomers, and the veterans of yesterday are nowhere to be seen. It appears they've given up on microstock altogether. Perhaps that's the future for us all.
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It would be interesting to hear how long people have been doing microstock when they claim best months ever. This type of talk is usually a dead giveaway for someone who hasn't been doing this very long. I don't hear many veterans saying things are great. But if you doubled your port size in the past year, you will of course have higher earnings. For those of us with a lot of years under our belts, we're only increasing our port sizes by, say 10 or 20% each year, and since the agencies are growing overall by more like 30 to 40% a year, on average we are falling behind. It's a numbers game, and if you're in it long enough, you lose.
Veterans started when the market was young. You hear the same about veteran app developers who started when the App Store just opened. They were making tons of money and now they're making peanuts. The market has changed, but that doesn't mean there aren't opportunities. Veterans just have to play the game like everyone else now.
I started microstock a little less year ago and I was optimistic at the start and I still am. In a way, it is a numbers game, but there are a lot of intangibles and you can take advantage of to make a portfolio more successful. You can look at things another way...if you play the game enough, you'll have more experience and that gives you an edge.
I remember being a teenager and spouting off to my dad on my views of the world. He would smile and tell me that I would learn the realities of the world soon enough. It didn't take many years to show me he was right. And a few decades later I find myself listening to my teenage son about how he sees the world, and I smile and tell him he will learn the realities of the world soon enough.
I remember being new to microstock 8 years ago and coming to this forum saying how I had figured everything out, and the veterans tried telling me the reality of the market. I laughed and said I had things figured out. Today, I'm the veteran trying to talk reality to microstock newcomers, and the veterans of yesterday are nowhere to be seen. It appears they've given up on microstock altogether. Perhaps that's the future for us all.
Amen. Very well said!
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the veterans of yesterday are nowhere to be seen. It appears they've given up on microstock altogether. Perhaps that's the future for us all.
I'm still around. Even though other things have meant that I haven't been uploading for almost a year I'm still shooting stuff for later use and the sales are still coming in, though my earnings are not much more than half what they once were.
It's not a game I would recommend to others, though: the earnings from new files dropped so much that it would seem to be pretty pointless putting in the effort to build a diverse portfolio of 5,000 or 10,000 files - but once you do have those numbers the portfolio provides a significant return for a long time. It probably took me an hour per file uploaded, once shooting, selecting, processing, keywording, uploading (keywording again for IS and Alamy)etc. was all added up. 10,000 hours is five working years. Say you reckon you should earn at least $50,000 a year, that means the effort in producing 10,000 files should deliver $250,000 in eventual earnings. I doubt if there are many who could achieve anywhere near that sort of return starting now with the market as it is.
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You are correct Old friend. No one I know. what im seeing that is depressing is...there is No sense of community anymore on SS. It's fragmented. 40,000 is the number of forum users and the last year alone all I see is the same 30/40 people. definitely time to Move along. everyones gone. at least those with something to say.Im not uploading either and in the process of building a new Port to go back to my roots. I have about 1700 Posts left on SS forum to reach my goal of 50,000 then, I gotta go. I can't keep saying the same things that many times and Im sure others are tired of reading it. I wanna start another Microstock Blog Kind of thing If anyone would be interested in doing with me. I'll sure Listen. Not to take away from here , But add to. with a possible critique section,gear section, pro talk,etc,etc. Or Not...LOL
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Sales are normal, not low.
please post on this forum i like your posts. ;)
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I remember being a teenager and spouting off to my dad on my views of the world. He would smile and tell me that I would learn the realities of the world soon enough. It didn't take many years to show me he was right. And a few decades later I find myself listening to my teenage son about how he sees the world, and I smile and tell him he will learn the realities of the world soon enough.
I remember being new to microstock 8 years ago and coming to this forum saying how I had figured everything out, and the veterans tried telling me the reality of the market. I laughed and said I had things figured out. Today, I'm the veteran trying to talk reality to microstock newcomers, and the veterans of yesterday are nowhere to be seen. It appears they've given up on microstock altogether. Perhaps that's the future for us all.
We all have to make a conscious choice about who we want to be. Veterans (of any sort) like to talk a certain way, the way of the 'good ole days'. Despite the fact that I have more experience than many people in my field of work, I made a conscious choice to not talk like that, because it's a fairly pessimistic tone.
Many veterans of microstock are like veterans of any field. John McCain have experienced life more than any of us here, and yet he still don't know how to use a computer properly. He got beat out by a man half his age, someone more tech savvy. Many veterans (not all) are set in their own ways and doesn't pick up many new skills required to compete at a higher level.
There's a difference between 8 years ago and today. Today, you can't rely on the skills you learned 8 years ago. The market was young back then. What works then no longer works today. Today, you need to have knowledge of SEO, marketing, a broad understanding of different fields and a mixed portfolio (instead of just a photography portfolio). 5 years from now, different skills will be needed. The question is...will the veterans learn those new skills or will they give up altogether?
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Just my 2c on this great convo. I started about 3 years ago thanks to SteHeaps book. Took it pretty crazy aiming for 100 uploads a month for 2 years. Last year ive struggled to do 50 a month. I saw rapid increase but its certainly taling off. Possibly due to less uploads. I think trick is to think very long term. If you look at money an image could earn over 20 years then its well worth the time shooting, editing and uploading. Some shots sell well right away but most dont honestly. 90% of my income is from 10% of images which I believe is very normal.
Yes a very slow January. half of a normal month for me thus far
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Minscer
You hit the nail on head. As a veteran of life at 89yrs,I have this to say: "Things is a changing" and they always will. As pilot and aerial photographer doing aerial mapping I do it all on my home computer with a small digital camera. Before it took a room full of machines and operators and a huge camera. I haven't embraced every new "app", but just enough to say I am"cool"
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There's a difference between 8 years ago and today. Today, you can't rely on the skills you learned 8 years ago. The market was young back then. What works then no longer works today. Today, you need to have knowledge of SEO, marketing, a broad understanding of different fields and a mixed portfolio (instead of just a photography portfolio). 5 years from now, different skills will be needed. The question is...will the veterans learn those new skills or will they give up altogether?
You've been doing this less than a year. You're not a guru.
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There's a difference between 8 years ago and today. Today, you can't rely on the skills you learned 8 years ago. The market was young back then. What works then no longer works today. Today, you need to have knowledge of SEO, marketing, a broad understanding of different fields and a mixed portfolio (instead of just a photography portfolio). 5 years from now, different skills will be needed. The question is...will the veterans learn those new skills or will they give up altogether?
You've been doing this less than a year. You're not a guru.
Och well, you know, the 'Arrogance of Youth'. ;)
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There's a difference between 8 years ago and today. Today, you can't rely on the skills you learned 8 years ago. The market was young back then. What works then no longer works today. Today, you need to have knowledge of SEO, marketing, a broad understanding of different fields and a mixed portfolio (instead of just a photography portfolio). 5 years from now, different skills will be needed. The question is...will the veterans learn those new skills or will they give up altogether?
You've been doing this less than a year. You're not a guru.
I'm doing this since more than 3 years. I'm obviously not a guru, but you don't have to be a guru to realise that he is right.
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There's a difference between 8 years ago and today. Today, you can't rely on the skills you learned 8 years ago. The market was young back then. What works then no longer works today. Today, you need to have knowledge of SEO, marketing, a broad understanding of different fields and a mixed portfolio (instead of just a photography portfolio). 5 years from now, different skills will be needed. The question is...will the veterans learn those new skills or will they give up altogether?
You've been doing this less than a year. You're not a guru.
I'm doing this since more than 3 years. I'm obviously not a guru, but you don't have to be a guru to realise that he is right.
I'd say he's partly right. It helps to be up to date on the latest stuff but I'm still selling shots every day that I took 12 years ago. No doubt having a lot of video as well as photos would add to sales (if it didn't involve shooting fewer photos), but the photo market is still as strong as ever - in fact stronger than ever, given that stuff keeps selling despite the scores of millions of shots that are available compared with a few hundred thousand a decade ago.
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There's a difference between 8 years ago and today. Today, you can't rely on the skills you learned 8 years ago. The market was young back then. What works then no longer works today. Today, you need to have knowledge of SEO, marketing, a broad understanding of different fields and a mixed portfolio (instead of just a photography portfolio). 5 years from now, different skills will be needed. The question is...will the veterans learn those new skills or will they give up altogether?
You've been doing this less than a year. You're not a guru.
I'm doing this since more than 3 years. I'm obviously not a guru, but you don't have to be a guru to realise that he is right.
I'd say he's partly right. It helps to be up to date on the latest stuff but I'm still selling shots every day that I took 12 years ago. No doubt having a lot of video as well as photos would add to sales (if it didn't involve shooting fewer photos), but the photo market is still as strong as ever - in fact stronger than ever, given that stuff keeps selling despite the scores of millions of shots that are available compared with a few hundred thousand a decade ago.
i think both (old and new ) are right. .. depending on where you are.
eg. i agree that some vets are having trouble getting themselves updated on the styles or workflow
to compete with the newbies who have the IT smarts.
but i also agree with sjl who once mentioned (to the question how can i make money)_...
"you get one good image or 1000 bad images".
.microstock is indeed a numbers game, and also like the other comment said, "10% earns most of your earnings". but flooding the market can help you be visible if you have 35000 photos instead or 3500 .
..even if it is all apples and marijuana. remember those days when that bloody golden man
flooded the first 100 pages of the new section of every agency???
that's definitely still the secret to making money. ie. push everyone else to page 1000 so no one bothers to go look for their work, even though they are far superior than the crap on page 1 to 100.
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While i talk a lot about buyer perception of image value being reduced rather quickly these days, it is interesting to note how much contributors value their time and efforts for the returns these days. Everyone's value of time spent vs rewards gained are different. Where is the bottom that contributors are willing to accept? Its hard for me to see contributors thats been doing this for less than 2 years seeing this as a viable full time prospect unless they have very little options.
The payout isn't worth the time invested in my opinion. Maybe it is different for videos and the market is shifting that direction.
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Yup, it's all wonderfully easy as long as you fully understand the business, and what drives it.
There is a slight snag in that nobody actually does fully understand that, or at least if they do they are keeping it very much to themselves.
Anyone got the lottery numbers for tonight?
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While i talk a lot about buyer perception of image value being reduced rather quickly these days, it is interesting to note how much contributors value their time and efforts for the returns these days. Everyone's value of time spent vs rewards gained are different. Where is the bottom that contributors are willing to accept? Its hard for me to see contributors thats been doing this for less than 2 years seeing this as a viable full time prospect unless they have very little options.
The payout isn't worth the time invested in my opinion. Maybe it is different for videos and the market is shifting that direction.
In 2015, I made 50% more than the official minimum wage in my state and I only had time during (some of) my weekends/vacation to invest in this activity. From this point of view, I'm OK with the rewards.
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The difference in this conversation is. if you do or do not do Only this full time. I never have. All I needed was a solid 25% of added Income for stuff I would have done with or without Micro anyway. When I first Joined, It was leftovers. Thats it. then for a few years somewhere in the middle I got serious. then let that go also. My Old friend Lev Dolgachev Has 159,597 Perfect stock Photos. and the best Pure stock Port I've ever seen, Probably Ever. Luckily, Im fortunate to have kept Many of my Long term Clients.Going on 35 years and counting. got a new One a few weeks ago, Very High End Jewelry. and then the actor Headshots I hate to do But...
http://www.shutterstock.com/gallery-64260p1.html?id=64260&rid=64260 (http://www.shutterstock.com/gallery-64260p1.html?id=64260&rid=64260)
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Full-time stock going on my 6th year, I have been at it since 2004 but full time for 6 years. It has it's ups and downs and I have around 8k video files. I am never bored and I do side jobs as well to keep balance. 2015 was a down year for me but I am hoping I can pick back up in 2016! I have been with my family more and wouldn't trade a day of it. I love the stock life and as with any job frustrations are there but the freedom is priceless! Still learning a lot and will have to learn until I die. I have to change and adapt but I am still here :-) I have already shot 6 commercials for yp in 2016 and more book so even when Jan is slow I still work! I say stop crying and start using your skills in as many areas as you like and can.
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Good answer. Because of my Past Music Biz business. if I don't enjoy what Im doing. I don't have to do it or anything else.
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My Old friend Lev Dolgachev Has 159,597 Perfect stock Photos. and the best Pure stock Port I've ever seen, Probably Ever.
[url]http://www.shutterstock.com/gallery-64260p1.html?id=64260&rid=64260[/url] ([url]http://www.shutterstock.com/gallery-64260p1.html?id=64260&rid=64260[/url])
yes, absoluto... i always thought he was one super stock photographer. anyone with a port like that
has to make money. even if he did not have 100,000 images, he would still make money because
his work is like you say, perfect.
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complain about low sales for 38 cent when you shoot high end jewlery stuff at the same time?
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There's a difference between 8 years ago and today. Today, you can't rely on the skills you learned 8 years ago. The market was young back then. What works then no longer works today. Today, you need to have knowledge of SEO, marketing, a broad understanding of different fields and a mixed portfolio (instead of just a photography portfolio). 5 years from now, different skills will be needed. The question is...will the veterans learn those new skills or will they give up altogether?
You've been doing this less than a year. You're not a guru.
I take that as a compliment, since you didn't call me a newbie.
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"Today, you need to have knowledge of SEO, marketing, a broad understanding of different fields and a mixed portfolio (instead of just a photography portfolio)."
You always needed these skills and many More If the Photography Business is what you choose. being a top Notch Commercial Photographer trumps all other tinfoil Hat theories. Being in business requires Business skills regardless of what your in business doing. Taking The pictures is the easiest part. getting and keeping Clients is far, FAR more difficult. SEO,Marketing,Promotion,personality,Being Out there more than the competition and a 100 other things are paramount if any success is wanted. There and always have been a zillion GREAT painters,Dancers,Photographers,musicians and anyone in the arts that will never be seen. because of not having the gift Of salesmanship,Promotion skills and Plain and simple Chutzpah I've met very few in my 55 year career making a very good living in the arts..And without even finishing High school. I knew at 16, I needed to get out and get on the road. and had my Dads blessing. He made me a fake ID and that was it. What I learned, No school was teaching.
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"Today, you need to have knowledge of SEO, marketing, a broad understanding of different fields and a mixed portfolio (instead of just a photography portfolio)."
You always needed these skills and many More If the Photography Business is what you choose. being a top Notch Commercial Photographer trumps all other tinfoil Hat theories. Being in business requires Business skills regardless of what your in business doing. Taking The pictures is the easiest part. getting and keeping Clients is far, FAR more difficult. SEO,Marketing,Promotion,personality,Being Out there more than the competition and a 100 other things are paramount if any success is wanted. There and always have been a zillion GREAT painters,Dancers,Photographers,musicians and anyone in the arts that will never be seen. because of not having the gift Of salesmanship,Promotion skills and Plain and simple Chutzpah I've met very few in my 55 year career making a very good living in the arts..And without even finishing High school. I knew at 16, I needed to get out and get on the road. and had my Dads blessing. He made me a fake ID and that was it. What I learned, No school was teaching.
Agreed. I neglected that skill earlier in my design career and didn't have much success early because of it. When I was in New York, I would visit the art galleries and wonder how some of the oddities got so much gallery space. It was because they were good at dealing with people and knew how to market themselves. Conversely, I've seen some great artists who struggle to get their work recognized.
What I listed are more specific to microstock and a lot more skills are required for successful commercial work. When it comes to micro, SEO for specific agencies and for Google are probably biggest keys to getting your images downloaded. Some of my best experiences in microstock has been watching an image start at the very bottom and slowly make its way to the first page.
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I sold my first stock shot in 1968. My experience tells me one thing.... Those with a commercial view and know how to pull it off do a 1000 times better than those with college degrees on all the other crap. I teach and have known a LOT of folks that have 800 Images that way Outsell those with 8,000 and a college degree in marketing.
This business and every Other creative outlet is about Commercial Value. with that and your ability to hustle you will out perform anyone. i had this guy come to see me a few years ago from Italy. He actually has 800 Images and makes $1,500 a week. would I show a link. No Way. He's a bartender. Pretty soon a studio owner.
I can look back and see My very good friend Yuri's work. His first 2 pages when he started was absolute garbage. In One image he changed and the sky opened and that was it. a thousand DL's a day followed. Then Much More. He was a Natural. and instantly Copied. He wrote the forward in my pardner and my first Book.
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The guys you mentioned are an inspiration. It just goes to show that with a right combination of factors, there is still opportunity to make good money. I still have a lot of work to do before I can reach that level, since I'm getting less than 1/10 of their downloads. Of course, those are the top 5 percenters, maybe even top 3 percenter given how many MS contributors are out there.
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i had this guy come to see me a few years ago from Italy. He actually has 800 Images and makes $1,500 a week. would I show a link. No Way. He's a bartender. Pretty soon a studio owner.
You have not checked his port, lately. He has 1309 images as of today ::)
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stop whining about the past. After a few slow weeks sales are back on level again. Last week was one of my BWE 8)
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"Today, you need to have knowledge of SEO, marketing, a broad understanding of different fields and a mixed portfolio (instead of just a photography portfolio)."
You always needed these skills and many More If the Photography Business is what you choose. being a top Notch Commercial Photographer trumps all other tinfoil Hat theories. Being in business requires Business skills regardless of what your in business doing. Taking The pictures is the easiest part. getting and keeping Clients is far, FAR more difficult. SEO,Marketing,Promotion,personality,Being Out there more than the competition and a 100 other things are paramount if any success is wanted. There and always have been a zillion GREAT painters,Dancers,Photographers,musicians and anyone in the arts that will never be seen. because of not having the gift Of salesmanship,Promotion skills and Plain and simple Chutzpah I've met very few in my 55 year career making a very good living in the arts..And without even finishing High school. I knew at 16, I needed to get out and get on the road. and had my Dads blessing. He made me a fake ID and that was it. What I learned, No school was teaching.
so true, all that you wrote here.
one look at the "arts" business and you will know it has nothing to do with ability...
from music (look at the best musicians... mostly starving... some till their death ...Lenny Breau is one example ... while lady gaga justin beiber make millions)... to yes, photography.
even art... as in painting... or one walk through the Musueam of "Fine Arts" or whatever they call it ...with toilet bowls to meat to paint strips to body with oranges,etc..
you know it has nothing to do with ability.
it's who you get to promote your work. the best selling authors have the best selling hustler working for them.
i once knew a real estate salesman who told me he was selling used cars when he was 15, and learn how to "gyp people". he was proud of it, and he became one of the biggest sellers in real estate during the boom. he "hustled people" as he puts it, and he was proud of it.
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Great Managers. I love Gaga. seeing her Live is quite good. self promotion at it's finest. beiber you can keep. LOL
i had this guy come to see me a few years ago from Italy. He actually has 800 Images and makes $1,500 a week. would I show a link. No Way. He's a bartender. Pretty soon a studio owner.
You have not checked his port, lately. He has 1309 images as of today ::)
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Brilliant. when you hear from Him say Hi...LOL
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Don't know what museums or galleries your going to. try to remember just because "YOU" don't like an artist doesn't hold much water other than "An Opinion" Luck? sure it happens all the time. Just as in Music. Most times Luck puts you there and Talent Keeps you there. being able to recognize the difference is a good thing. Some Hustle.....Most Don't. huge difference.Like I said The vast majority of great artists in any medium Will never be seen. Why?? Easy answer.
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the veterans of yesterday are nowhere to be seen. It appears they've given up on microstock altogether. Perhaps that's the future for us all.
I'm still around. Even though other things have meant that I haven't been uploading for almost a year I'm still shooting stuff for later use and the sales are still coming in, though my earnings are not much more than half what they once were.
It's not a game I would recommend to others, though: the earnings from new files dropped so much that it would seem to be pretty pointless putting in the effort to build a diverse portfolio of 5,000 or 10,000 files - but once you do have those numbers the portfolio provides a significant return for a long time. It probably took me an hour per file uploaded, once shooting, selecting, processing, keywording, uploading (keywording again for IS and Alamy)etc. was all added up. 10,000 hours is five working years. Say you reckon you should earn at least $50,000 a year, that means the effort in producing 10,000 files should deliver $250,000 in eventual earnings. I doubt if there are many who could achieve anywhere near that sort of return starting now with the market as it is.
Thank you for coming back on the forums. Your perspective was missed alot when you were gone. I completely agree with the above post and have the exact same experience. Earning less than half what I did at my best really stings for me tho. I am not yet able to be philosophical about it.
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I remember being a teenager and spouting off to my dad on my views of the world. He would smile and tell me that I would learn the realities of the world soon enough. It didn't take many years to show me he was right. And a few decades later I find myself listening to my teenage son about how he sees the world, and I smile and tell him he will learn the realities of the world soon enough.
I remember being new to microstock 8 years ago and coming to this forum saying how I had figured everything out, and the veterans tried telling me the reality of the market. I laughed and said I had things figured out. Today, I'm the veteran trying to talk reality to microstock newcomers, and the veterans of yesterday are nowhere to be seen. It appears they've given up on microstock altogether. Perhaps that's the future for us all.
We all have to make a conscious choice about who we want to be. Veterans (of any sort) like to talk a certain way, the way of the 'good ole days'. Despite the fact that I have more experience than many people in my field of work, I made a conscious choice to not talk like that, because it's a fairly pessimistic tone.
Many veterans of microstock are like veterans of any field. John McCain have experienced life more than any of us here, and yet he still don't know how to use a computer properly. He got beat out by a man half his age, someone more tech savvy. Many veterans (not all) are set in their own ways and doesn't pick up many new skills required to compete at a higher level.
There's a difference between 8 years ago and today. Today, you can't rely on the skills you learned 8 years ago. The market was young back then. What works then no longer works today. Today, you need to have knowledge of SEO, marketing, a broad understanding of different fields and a mixed portfolio (instead of just a photography portfolio). 5 years from now, different skills will be needed. The question is...will the veterans learn those new skills or will they give up altogether?
Yawn. Your assumption that those who started 8 or more years have not improved their skills, don't understand SEO and marketing, etc. Is not just ignorant, but also condescending. And comparing veteran microstockers from a mere 8 years ago to an elderly man that can't use a computer is outright insulting. (All due respect to Sen. McCain who is a genuine war hero) Really, that's a completely inappropriate comparison.
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the veterans of yesterday are nowhere to be seen. It appears they've given up on microstock altogether. Perhaps that's the future for us all.
I'm still around. Even though other things have meant that I haven't been uploading for almost a year I'm still shooting stuff for later use and the sales are still coming in, though my earnings are not much more than half what they once were.
It's not a game I would recommend to others, though: the earnings from new files dropped so much that it would seem to be pretty pointless putting in the effort to build a diverse portfolio of 5,000 or 10,000 files - but once you do have those numbers the portfolio provides a significant return for a long time. It probably took me an hour per file uploaded, once shooting, selecting, processing, keywording, uploading (keywording again for IS and Alamy)etc. was all added up. 10,000 hours is five working years. Say you reckon you should earn at least $50,000 a year, that means the effort in producing 10,000 files should deliver $250,000 in eventual earnings. I doubt if there are many who could achieve anywhere near that sort of return starting now with the market as it is.
Thank you for coming back on the forums. Your perspective was missed alot when you were gone. I completely agree with the above post and have the exact same experience. Earning less than half what I did at my best really stings for me tho. I am not yet able to be philosophical about it.
Agree. I have transitioned to video and shoot way less stills for stock, and it is taking my video sales to barely keep me at my monthly average. Without video, I would be down roughly $500 a month from two years ago. The biggest killer from an agency tactical perspective is probably the push for more sub customers by masquerading credit sales as subs. 5-paks, 10-pack subs instead of high volume for which subs were meant to align. And agencies like DT who is now doing income re-distribution....fairness for everyone regardless of commitment to the business, quality of work or port size. And of course you have the FOTOLIA and DP types both of whom were caught red-handed ripping off contributors. The models to accept everything are affecting search quality and pumping junk into the collections. Bundling all of this into the MS model is making it hard for us to even retain income, let alone grow it.
Sorry, off my rant now. Not trying to hijack this thread.
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the veterans of yesterday are nowhere to be seen. It appears they've given up on microstock altogether. Perhaps that's the future for us all.
I'm still around. Even though other things have meant that I haven't been uploading for almost a year I'm still shooting stuff for later use and the sales are still coming in, though my earnings are not much more than half what they once were.
It's not a game I would recommend to others, though: the earnings from new files dropped so much that it would seem to be pretty pointless putting in the effort to build a diverse portfolio of 5,000 or 10,000 files - but once you do have those numbers the portfolio provides a significant return for a long time. It probably took me an hour per file uploaded, once shooting, selecting, processing, keywording, uploading (keywording again for IS and Alamy)etc. was all added up. 10,000 hours is five working years. Say you reckon you should earn at least $50,000 a year, that means the effort in producing 10,000 files should deliver $250,000 in eventual earnings. I doubt if there are many who could achieve anywhere near that sort of return starting now with the market as it is.
Thank you for coming back on the forums. Your perspective was missed alot when you were gone. I completely agree with the above post and have the exact same experience. Earning less than half what I did at my best really stings for me tho. I am not yet able to be philosophical about it.
Agree. I have transitioned to video and shoot way less stills for stock, and it is taking my video sales to barely keep me at my monthly average. Without video, I would be down roughly $500 a month from two years ago. The biggest killer from an agency tactical perspective is probably the push for more sub customers by masquerading credit sales as subs. 5-paks, 10-pack subs instead of high volume for which subs were meant to align. And agencies like DT who is now doing income re-distribution....fairness for everyone regardless of commitment to the business, quality of work or port size. And of course you have the FOTOLIA and DP types both of whom were caught red-handed ripping off contributors. The models to accept everything are affecting search quality and pumping junk into the collections. Bundling all of this into the MS model is making it hard for us to even retain income, let alone grow it.
Sorry, off my rant now. Not trying to hijack this thread.
Your post is not hijacking. The agency stunts are a huge part of the reason sales and incomes.have declined so badly.
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Not Hijacking at all. RIGHT ON THE MONEY.
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The agency stunts are a huge part of the reason sales and incomes.have declined so badly.
Well .... this is such a popular sad song on this forum!
Those "stunts" are NOT the main reason.
The main reason is technology. Technology gave us better equipment than ever. Technology gave us a plethora of free or cheap courses, making easy for hobbyists to successfully compete against veteran microstockers.
I'm not saying that veterans are not able to keep up with the technology. I'm only saying that there are a lot more good photographers today, than 8-10 years ago. I read somewhere that "Photography" is one of the most popular "last names" on Facebook. :D
The abundance of good photos drives their price down.
All agencies will always push their luck until it hurts, because this is how free markets work, like or not.
Moving towards new revenue streams (e.g. video, as Mantis does) is a healthier decision than constantly bitching, moaning and whining about inevitable changes.
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The agency stunts are a huge part of the reason sales and incomes.have declined so badly.
Well .... this is such a popular sad song on this forum!
Those "stunts" are NOT the main reason.
The main reason is technology. Technology gave us better equipment than ever. Technology gave us a plethora of free or cheap courses, making easy for hobbyists to successfully compete against veteran microstockers.
I'm not saying that veterans are not able to keep up with the technology. I'm only saying that there are a lot more good photographers today, than 8-10 years ago. I read somewhere that "Photography" is one of the most popular "last names" on Facebook. :D
The abundance of good photos drives their price down.
All agencies will always push their luck until it hurts, because this is how free markets work, like or not.
Moving towards new revenue streams (e.g. video, as Mantis does) is a healthier decision than constantly bitching, moaning and whining about inevitable changes.
I don't disagree with you that the popularity of photography and the abundance of photos is a factor. It definitely is a big factor. But it is an expected and inevitable factor. One we all have understood would happen.
What was not inevitable, nor a natural progression in the industry, is the many shenanigans by the agencies that have cut royalties annually,, finding every way possible to xfer more of the income generated by content creators into the pockets of shareholders and venture capital firms who add no actual value to the companies, but instead skim off the cream and pile on debt.
The validity of the oversupply argument does not negate the greedy or mismanaged agencies argument. They are both happening, and accerating the rate at which this business is becoming untenable for serious content providers.
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I remember being a teenager and spouting off to my dad on my views of the world. He would smile and tell me that I would learn the realities of the world soon enough. It didn't take many years to show me he was right. And a few decades later I find myself listening to my teenage son about how he sees the world, and I smile and tell him he will learn the realities of the world soon enough.
I remember being new to microstock 8 years ago and coming to this forum saying how I had figured everything out, and the veterans tried telling me the reality of the market. I laughed and said I had things figured out. Today, I'm the veteran trying to talk reality to microstock newcomers, and the veterans of yesterday are nowhere to be seen. It appears they've given up on microstock altogether. Perhaps that's the future for us all.
We all have to make a conscious choice about who we want to be. Veterans (of any sort) like to talk a certain way, the way of the 'good ole days'. Despite the fact that I have more experience than many people in my field of work, I made a conscious choice to not talk like that, because it's a fairly pessimistic tone.
Many veterans of microstock are like veterans of any field. John McCain have experienced life more than any of us here, and yet he still don't know how to use a computer properly. He got beat out by a man half his age, someone more tech savvy. Many veterans (not all) are set in their own ways and doesn't pick up many new skills required to compete at a higher level.
There's a difference between 8 years ago and today. Today, you can't rely on the skills you learned 8 years ago. The market was young back then. What works then no longer works today. Today, you need to have knowledge of SEO, marketing, a broad understanding of different fields and a mixed portfolio (instead of just a photography portfolio). 5 years from now, different skills will be needed. The question is...will the veterans learn those new skills or will they give up altogether?
Yawn. Your assumption that those who started 8 or more years have not improved their skills, don't understand SEO and marketing, etc. Is not just ignorant, but also condescending. And comparing veteran microstockers from a mere 8 years ago to an elderly man that can't use a computer is outright insulting. (All due respect to Sen. McCain who is a genuine war hero) Really, that's a completely inappropriate comparison.
I don't get insulted by anything here, so why should you?
And I don't make those type of assumptions without any research. I've seen some of the meta data by some 'veterans' and I'm telling it like it is. Some of it is poorly done and I'm not going to be fluffy about it.
With so many images out there, with so much competition from everywhere, and people complaining about download numbers going down, it baffles me why so many images are not optimized for the SS search engine or Google, since they index every image from Shutterstock.
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My sales half of the usual sales :(
Sometings wrong.
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The agency stunts are a huge part of the reason sales and incomes.have declined so badly.
Well .... this is such a popular sad song on this forum!
Those "stunts" are NOT the main reason.
The main reason is technology. Technology gave us better equipment than ever. Technology gave us a plethora of free or cheap courses, making easy for hobbyists to successfully compete against veteran microstockers.
I'm not saying that veterans are not able to keep up with the technology. I'm only saying that there are a lot more good photographers today, than 8-10 years ago. I read somewhere that "Photography" is one of the most popular "last names" on Facebook. :D
The abundance of good photos drives their price down.
All agencies will always push their luck until it hurts, because this is how free markets work, like or not.
Moving towards new revenue streams (e.g. video, as Mantis does) is a healthier decision than constantly bitching, moaning and whining about inevitable changes.
What was not inevitable, nor a natural progression in the industry, is the many shenanigans by the agencies that have cut royalties annually,, finding every way possible to xfer more of the income generated by content creators into the pockets of shareholders and venture capital firms who add no actual value to the companies, but instead skim off the cream and pile on debt.
The validity of the oversupply argument does not negate the greedy or mismanaged agencies argument. They are both happening, and accerating the rate at which this business is becoming untenable for serious content providers.
Hmm... why are you surprised to see companies trying to squeeze their suppliers? It doesn't happen in this business only. It happens all the time, on all economical branches.The music industry pushes their suppliers, Apple pushes their suppliers, Costco pushes their suppliers, Ikea pushes their suppliers etc.
A company has the duty to always push the limit, as long as the market tolerates the push, until the push is about to fire back.
It is naive to belive that microstock agencies are different. These are not charities.
The abundance of good photos and good photographers allows them to take more risks than before.
Good management actually means understanding how far they can go without alienating their suppliers, their customers, their employees and their investors. Good management means constantly pushing the limits and testing the market.
When someone crosses the limits set by the free market (=mismanagement) competition takes care of the mistake, forcing either a correction or bankruptcy, when management does't realize it.
One more thing: there is no such thing as greed. There is self interrest, we all defend it, and that's the fundamental energy which generates progress.
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One more thing: there is no such thing as greed. There is self interrest, we all defend it, and that's the fundamental energy which generates progress.
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What a load of crap.
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One more thing: there is no such thing as greed. There is self interrest, we all defend it, and that's the fundamental energy which generates progress.
Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk
What a load of crap.
I'm sure you are not greedy, because, obviously, only others are.
Sorry I woke you up! Keep dreaming :)
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One more thing: there is no such thing as greed. There is self interrest, we all defend it, and that's the fundamental energy which generates progress.
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What a load of crap.
I'm sure you are not greedy, because, obviously, only others are.
Sorry I woke you up! Keep dreaming :)
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Greed is wanting more than you need and yes there is such a thing as greed, look at Donald Trump. But not everyone is greedy. I live a modest life and walked away from that race for more 15 years ago. I have what I need and I want nothing more. I do stock as retirement income (not retired yet but must think of the future) and because it's the only avenue that allows me to create whatever image I want without having to follow a client's directions. Greed is a sickness and one in which the infected don't know there's anything wrong with them. Tragic really.
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One more thing: there is no such thing as greed. There is self interrest, we all defend it, and that's the fundamental energy which generates progress.
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What a load of crap.
I'm sure you are not greedy, because, obviously, only others are.
Sorry I woke you up! Keep dreaming :)
Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk
Greed is wanting more than you need and yes there is such a thing as greed, look at Donald Trump. But not everyone is greedy. I live a modest life and walked away from that race for more 15 years ago. I have what I need and I want nothing more. I do stock as retirement income (not retired yet but must think of the future) and because it's the only avenue that allows me to create whatever image I want without having to follow a client's directions. Greed is a sickness and one in which the infected don't know there's anything wrong with them. Tragic really.
What you "need" is so relative! This is why your definition is flawed.
Are your needs the same as some poor African farmer needs? To him, you are greedy, because you have much more than he needs. Similarly, corporations appear greedy to you.
Is your household making more than $9,733/year? If yes, then you are greedy because you make more than half of the world population. You can flaunt your modest life only after you donate to charity everything in excess of $9,733/year.
You don't need much to be happy: food, shelter and love. Do you have more than this? Do you have a cell phone, a car, a TV, a computer? Then you have more than you need. Always think at the poor African farmer before you tap yourself on the shoulder with satisfaction. Otherwise, it is only hypocrisy.
Self interest (which include the interests of your family and your community) is embedded in human nature and beyond, even if you don't like to admit it. Without it, mankind would have been stuck in stone age, or worse.
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Self interest (which include the interests of your family and your community) is embedded in human nature and beyond, even if you don't like to admit it. Without it, mankind would have been stuck in stone age, or worse.
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. . . . even more crap.
Please stop preaching your simplistic, two cent philosophy.
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Self interest (which include the interests of your family and your community) is embedded in human nature and beyond, even if you don't like to admit it. Without it, mankind would have been stuck in stone age, or worse.
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. . . . even more crap.
Please stop preaching your simplistic, two cent philosophy.
You probably prefer only to listen to what is your warm and convenient "truth".
Just remember that "even Mother Teresa, for example, when she used her Nobel Prize award to build a leprosarium, she was acting in a self-interested manner, because those resources were used to advance something she cared about".
This is because "our self-interest includes the development of our benevolent nature"
Maybe now things are not as simplistic as you hastily characterized them.
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I don't specifically see that Photographers are better than 10 years ago. I see more of them. to Bad some folks here weren't around before Microstock..Doing Pro Stock Photography. Microstock Killed that Industry where we could make a living doing good work. Before a million Tomatoes,Meercats,Kiwi, etc,etc,etc,etc,etc you name it. It's here by the millions. Is it better than 10 years ago?...Sorry...NOPE!! And Just remember as a general rule of being creative whats Hot today, Doesn't stay hot for Long.
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One more thing: there is no such thing as greed. There is self interrest, we all defend it, and that's the fundamental energy which generates progress.
Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk
What a load of crap.
I'm sure you are not greedy, because, obviously, only others are.
Sorry I woke you up! Keep dreaming :)
Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk
Greed is wanting more than you need and yes there is such a thing as greed, look at Donald Trump. But not everyone is greedy. I live a modest life and walked away from that race for more 15 years ago. I have what I need and I want nothing more. I do stock as retirement income (not retired yet but must think of the future) and because it's the only avenue that allows me to create whatever image I want without having to follow a client's directions. Greed is a sickness and one in which the infected don't know there's anything wrong with them. Tragic really.
What you "need" is so relative! This is why your definition is flawed.
Are your needs the same as some poor African farmer needs? To him, you are greedy, because you have much more than he needs. Similarly, corporations appear greedy to you.
Is your household making more than $9,733/year? If yes, then you are greedy because you make more than half of the world population. You can flaunt your modest life only after you donate to charity everything in excess of $9,733/year.
You don't need much to be happy: food, shelter and love. Do you have more than this? Do you have a cell phone, a car, a TV, a computer? Then you have more than you need. Always think at the poor African farmer before you tap yourself on the shoulder with satisfaction. Otherwise, it is only hypocrisy.
Self interest (which include the interests of your family and your community) is embedded in human nature and beyond, even if you don't like to admit it. Without it, mankind would have been stuck in stone age, or worse.
Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk
LOL,Oh boy,i was wondering why someone didnt mention the "human nature" argument sooner.The mega argument of every illiterate libertarian.
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The mega argument of every illiterate libertarian.
Lol ;D especially those winning awards in economics. A bunch of illiterates, indeed :o
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The mega argument of every illiterate libertarian.
Lol ;D especially those winning awards in economics. A bunch of illiterates, indeeds :o
Thank God human nature created the awards.
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The mega argument of every illiterate libertarian.
Lol ;D especially those winning awards in economics. A bunch of illiterates, indeed :o
Thank God human nature created the awards.
Indeed. Among others, Alfred Nobel created some of them ;) And some went to F.A. Hayek, Milton Friedman, and James M. Buchanan :)
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The mega argument of every illiterate libertarian.
Lol ;D especially those winning awards in economics. A bunch of illiterates, indeeds :o
Thank God human nature created the awards.
Indeed. Among others, Alfred Nobel created some of them. ;)
Truly a remarkable troll that man was.His awards usually end up being shared by scientists with totally contradicting theories.Especially in physics and economics (efficient market hypothesis shared award was the motherload of surrealism a couple of years back).
Other awards ,such as the nobel peace prize, is sometimes being awarded to people who hold the record for most failed states under one's precidency.
In other news sales are picking up for all because it happened to me and i said so.If i were a public figure i would have been awarded a nobel prize.
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F.A. Hayek, Milton Friedman
Please say no more.I got it.Really.
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F.A. Hayek, Milton Friedman
Please say no more.I got it.Really.
I'm happy you got it. 8)
Do you prefer JM Keynes financial perpetuum mobile or K.Marx wonderland?
Anyway all these people with contradicting theories:
Truly a remarkable troll that man was.His awards usually end up being shared by scientists with totally contradicting theories.Especially in physics and economics (efficient market hypothesis shared award was the motherload of surrealism a couple of years back).
Other awards ,such as the nobel peace prize, is sometimes being awarded to people who hold the record for most failed states under one's precidency.
In other news sales are picking up for all because it happened to me and i said so.If i were a public figure i would have been awarded a nobel prize.
...are a bunch of illiterates, indeed!
Say no more! ;D
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Hijacked thread alert!!!!! :o
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I'm happy you got it.
Do you prefer JM Keynes financial perpetuum mobile or K.Marx wonderland?
See here's the thing.I prefer neither.You apparently prefer Mises and Friedman which would make more sense if you were Paris Hilton (money-wise) .
But you are not.At least one can dream of becoming an elite and that's something im not against to be honest.
Sadly for every Bill Gates there are 1000 Paris Hiltons and 1.000.000 suckers.
Like you.
Or me for that matter.
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I'm happy you got it.
Do you prefer JM Keynes financial perpetuum mobile or K.Marx wonderland?
See here's the thing.I prefer neither.You apparently prefer Mises and Friedman which would make more sense if you were Paris Hilton (money-wise) .
But you are not.At least one can dream of becoming an elite and that's something im not against to be honest.
Sadly for every Bill Gates there are 1000 Paris Hiltons and 1.000.000 suckers.
Like you.
Or me for that matter.
I don't "prefer". I study and make sense of what I read. If a theory makes sense, it doesn't matter who you are and how much money you make, as long as it answers your questions.
Understanding these basic principles would definitely help you more in finding your way, than the constant BMW about "greed", "evil corporations", "poor me is not my fault" or "who moved my cheese?" and low sales complaints.
Hijacked thread alert!!!!! :o
False alarm! :P
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I'm happy you got it.
Do you prefer JM Keynes financial perpetuum mobile or K.Marx wonderland?
See here's the thing.I prefer neither.You apparently prefer Mises and Friedman which would make more sense if you were Paris Hilton (money-wise) .
But you are not.At least one can dream of becoming an elite and that's something im not against to be honest.
Sadly for every Bill Gates there are 1000 Paris Hiltons and 1.000.000 suckers.
Like you.
Or me for that matter.
I don't "prefer". I study and make sense of what I read. If a theory makes sense, it doesn't matter who you are and how much money you make, as long as it answers your questions.
Understanding these basic principles would definitely help you more in finding your way, than these constant BMW about "greed", "evil corporations", "poor me is not my fault" or "who moved my cheese?" complaints.
Hijacked thread alert!!!!! :o
False alarm! :P
Thank you for you deeply inspiring words, i will definitely educate myself further just like you did,allowing you to expand your mind and create opportyunities where there weren't any.
Although im afraid that if i do i will start blaming myself for being poor because ultimately it's the poor people's fault for being poor and frankly i kind of like to whine about my poverty.
Did i also mention that im lazy?yes,im afraid these two go hand in hand because nature says so.
Looks like no libertarianism for me chaps.I can't handle the burden of enlightenment.
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Although im afraid that if i do i will start blaming myself for being poor
Remember the African farmer! He is poor, not you! And he is definitely not lazy. Your sarcasm doesn't make you right.
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Although im afraid that if i do i will start blaming myself for being poor
Remember the African farmer! He is poor, not you!
Everything is relative.He might be poor next to me but he sure is way richer than an Afghan refugee.
Didn't your idols teach you that relativity (or lesser evil) is the cornerstone of western society since at least two centuries ago?
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Although im afraid that if i do i will start blaming myself for being poor
Remember the African farmer! He is poor, not you!
Everything is relative.He might be poor next to me but he sure is way richer than an Afghan refugee.
Didn't your idols teach you that relativity (or lesser evil) is the cornerstone of western society since at least two centuries ago?
Actually no.
They advocate a free market through mutually agreed transactions, free of coercion from any participant or 3rd parties.
They advocate win-win, not "lesser evil" (lose-lose). They prove that the zero-sum theory (no net win), so dear to some socialists, is a fallacy.
On the other hand, it is important if you realized that you are not poor, by most of mankind standards, and your life might even be better than a king's life from only a few centuries ago.
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Say no more.
Where do i sign?
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Say no more.
Where do i sign?
Sure, no problem: you can start your enlightenment journey, by signing up here: https://mises.org/ ;)
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They advocate a free market through mutually agreed transactions, free of coercion from any participant or 3rd parties.
They advocate win-win, not "lesser evil" (lose-lose). They prove that the zero-sum theory (no net win), so dear to some socialists, is a fallacy.
. . . and therein lies the problem with your simplistic economic philosophy.
"free of coercion from any participant or 3rd parties" is impossible in today's modern world.
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They advocate a free market through mutually agreed transactions, free of coercion from any participant or 3rd parties.
They advocate win-win, not "lesser evil" (lose-lose). They prove that the zero-sum theory (no net win), so dear to some socialists, is a fallacy.
. . . and therein lies the problem with your simplistic economic philosophy.
"free of coercion from any participant or 3rd parties" is impossible in today's modern world.
We are making progress! This is a much more "intelligent" reply than that repetitive "load of crap" you used me with.
Please don't mix up principles with daily imperfections.
Here is a simple example at hand:
The "modern world" of microstock adheres, to a large extent, to these principles. There is no government intervention (3rd party), no licensing required, and you are free to enter in a transaction or end it at will (while respecting those willingly agreed terms) with most agencies.
So, you actually take part in this "simplistic", "impossible", free world of microstock.
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They advocate a free market through mutually agreed transactions, free of coercion from any participant or 3rd parties.
They advocate win-win, not "lesser evil" (lose-lose). They prove that the zero-sum theory (no net win), so dear to some socialists, is a fallacy.
. . . and therein lies the problem with your simplistic economic philosophy.
"free of coercion from any participant or 3rd parties" is impossible in today's modern world.
We are making progress! This is a much more "intelligent" reply than that repetitive "load of crap" you used me with.
Please don't mix up principles with daily imperfections.
The "modern world" of microstock adheres, to large extent, to these principles. There is no government intervention (3rd party), no licensing required, and you are free to enter in a transaction or end it at will (while respecting those willingly agreed terms) with most agencies.
So change it is not as impossible as you think.
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I still think what you're preaching is a load of rubbish.
(and that's my simplistic answer)
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They advocate a free market through mutually agreed transactions, free of coercion from any participant or 3rd parties.
They advocate win-win, not "lesser evil" (lose-lose). They prove that the zero-sum theory (no net win), so dear to some socialists, is a fallacy.
. . . and therein lies the problem with your simplistic economic philosophy.
"free of coercion from any participant or 3rd parties" is impossible in today's modern world.
We are making progress! This is a much more "intelligent" reply than that repetitive "load of crap" you used me with.
Please don't mix up principles with daily imperfections.
The "modern world" of microstock adheres, to large extent, to these principles. There is no government intervention (3rd party), no licensing required, and you are free to enter in a transaction or end it at will (while respecting those willingly agreed terms) with most agencies.
So change it is not as impossible as you think.
Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk
I still think what you're preaching is a load of rubbish.
(and that's my simplistic answer)
It appears that giving simplistic answers, such as those involving "crap" and "rubbish", is the best you can do. Somehow, I thought I could ask for more.
My bad!
:'(
Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk
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This is a MICROSTOCK discussion board not a PHILOSOPHY discussion board
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Sadly there are fanatics on every Internet forum that have to try and steer every thread to their own philosophical pet opinion. Like all fanatics they see everything filtered through the lens of their cause. So as far as they can see their pet theory is the most relevant thing in every discussion. It's tedious to say the least.
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This thread needs sorting out. The original subject wasn't great but much more interesting to microstockers than the hijacked subject. I suggest anyone more interested in politics and philosophy should use more relevant forums.
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The POPCORN was good though.
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Back to the thread.
Sales are picking up, but mostly subs...
Anyone else ?
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Thanks, Thomas, for getting us back on the subject. Let's hope we can stay here.
My SS sales have picked up in the last week but they're lagging way behind FT. I sure do miss the good old days of many SODs and even the occasional EL.
Hard not to notice the drop in SS's rating in the column to the right and the related rise of IS, FT, and P5.
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Thanks, Thomas, for getting us back on the subject. Let's hope we can stay here.
My SS sales have picked up in the last week but they're lagging way behind FT. I sure do miss the good old days of many SODs and even the occasional EL.
Hard not to notice the drop in SS's rating in the column to the right and the related rise of IS, FT, and P5.
I can see the drop in SS in the column to the right and in my port performance.
I can't see any rise of IS, FT or P5.
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Thanks, Thomas, for getting us back on the subject. Let's hope we can stay here.
My SS sales have picked up in the last week but they're lagging way behind FT. I sure do miss the good old days of many SODs and even the occasional EL.
Hard not to notice the drop in SS's rating in the column to the right and the related rise of IS, FT, and P5.
I can see the drop in SS in the column to the right and in my port performance.
I can't see any rise of IS, FT or P5.
Personally, I'm not seeing a rise in P5 (probably because I'm not in video). And I'm no longer in iStock, so can't comment on that. I still get sales on DT, but they're increasingly few and far between.
For me Fotolia is doing better than SS right now.
In response to that, I've switched a dozen images to exclusive on FT and am seeing better returns on those already. If that pattern holds, I may continue to migrate images that don't do well on DT and SS over to FT as exclusives.
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While you guys argue...the weed guy is uploading 100000 "new" weed shots...
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It seems to always take until the second half of January for image buyers to shake off their holiday hangovers and get down to business. My sales are up from early January but not as robust a recovery as I'd like.
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It seems to always take until the second half of January for image buyers to shake off their holiday hangovers and get down to business. My sales are up from early January but not as robust a recovery as I'd like.
I agree. My ales are VERY slow and almost half of my norm, but across all sites. But Shutterstock is amazingly low in sales for me this month. I normally make nearly a grand per month there and I am at 1/3rd of that today.
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2014 ~ 2015
Portfolio +21%
Download -14%
Earnings -5%
Rpi -26%
Rpd +10% yes !
Earnings per site
SS -6,3%
FT -24,5% (but good Q4)
DT +36%
IS +10% and -1,5% PP and Sub
123 +19,4%
DP +13,1%
BS -1%
PO +16%
PD -8,74%
CA -48%
VE -79%
Jan 2016, compared to Jan 2015, is only -1,6% down after 19 days.
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Martha, thanks for the hint about exclusivity for some images on FT. I have a bunch of exclusives on DT which I think is why my sales there often beat the average. I may give it a try on FT too and see how that works. I just joined recently have a very small port there, but it's picking up. SS is very busy for me this month too with many more ODDs and SODs than I've seen in quite a while, but no Els there since November.
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Martha, thanks for the hint about exclusivity for some images on FT. I have a bunch of exclusives on DT which I think is why my sales there often beat the average. I may give it a try on FT too and see how that works. I just joined recently have a very small port there, but it's picking up. SS is very busy for me this month too with many more ODDs and SODs than I've seen in quite a while, but no Els there since November.
It's worth a try to test some images as exclusives on different sites. I don't have any exclusives anywhere else but on FT. Never did that on DT and of course can't do it on SS.
But several of my good 2015 images that cranky-and-unpredictable SS reviewers didn't accept have done well on FT, so after a few of those sales I realized I should make them exclusives there. Hard to say what the best long-term strategy is. Experimentation seems a good idea.
Congrats for being successful at SS this month. Your port is unusual, so something there must be striking a chord.
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My SS sales for January are on par with my sales for last year, so I don't notice an unusual slowdown. And I, too, see an increase in sales from Fotolia as compared to SS. Maybe SS buyers are just slow at getting into the swing of things after the holiday.
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And I, too, see an increase in sales from Fotolia as compared to SS. Maybe SS buyers are just slow at getting into the swing of things after the holiday.
Or… could it be that the migration of buyers from SS to FT/Adobe is in progress? I don't know that's the case, but it seems possible.
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Sales are picking up, but mostly subs...
Anyone else ?
I should complain more often...just got an EL after typing my message 8)
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Sales are picking up, but mostly subs...
Anyone else ?
I should complain more often...just got an EL after typing my message 8)
Nice to hear! I think I'll start bitchin' and moanin' more about SS! :D
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It seems to always take until the second half of January for image buyers to shake off their holiday hangovers and get down to business. My sales are up from early January but not as robust a recovery as I'd like.
I agree. My ales are VERY slow and almost half of my norm, but across all sites. But Shutterstock is amazingly low in sales for me this month. I normally make nearly a grand per month there and I am at 1/3rd of that today.
Same here brother. FT is red Hot for me.
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Oh yeah, complaining and whining on this forum used to help me too, so let me do it again for the sake of my future sales ;D: no SODs for me on SS so far, just subs after subs (grrr), and my FT portfolio still thinks it's Christmas (hey, psss, wake up!)...
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Sales are picking up, but mostly subs...
Anyone else ?
I should complain more often...just got an EL after typing my message 8)
Nice to hear! I think I'll start bitchin' and moanin' more about SS! :D
I don't bitch or moan about SS. On the contrary: I'm happy with our business relation.
Maybe this why I have a very nice day today, while being on track to have a rather good month, since, I just surpassed January 2015.
I'm sure you can try my "method" too! 8)
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Sales are picking up, but mostly subs...
Anyone else ?
I should complain more often...just got an EL after typing my message 8)
Nice to hear! I think I'll start bitchin' and moanin' more about SS! :D
I don't bitch or moan about SS. On the contrary: I'm happy with our business relation.
Maybe this why I have a very nice day today, while being on track to have a rather good month, since, I just surpassed January 2015.
I'm sure you can try my "method" too! 8)
I propose we all withhold judgment on Zero Talent's "method" for a while, because—most likely—he'll be back bichin' and moanin' along with everybody else before too long. ::)
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Sales are picking up, but mostly subs...
Anyone else ?
I should complain more often...just got an EL after typing my message 8)
Nice to hear! I think I'll start bitchin' and moanin' more about SS! :D
I don't bitch or moan about SS. On the contrary: I'm happy with our business relation.
Maybe this why I have a very nice day today, while being on track to have a rather good month, since, I just surpassed January 2015.
I'm sure you can try my "method" too! 8)
I propose we all withhold judgment on Zero Talent's "method" for a while, because—most likely—he'll be back bichin' and moanin' along with everybody else before too long. ::)
Don't worry, I will only be angry at myself, for not being competitive enough.
Meanwhile, every single sale is a blessing. At the end of the month, I get a nice hefty bonus I could not have enjoyed without microstock in general and SS in particular.
Rest assured, I'll continue to see it as such, also during my 4th fruitful year with SS.
But, hey feel free to bitch and moan if that makes your day ;) However, you should also consider some sacrifice on the altar of microstock's God. This might help you more than your curent ritual.
Anyway, my method is definitely healthier and more peaceful.
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Don't worry, I will only be angry at myself, for not being competitive enough.
Meanwhile, every single sale is a blessing. At the end of the month, I get a nice hefty bonus I could not have enjoyed without microstock in general and SS in particular.
Rest assured, I'll continue to see it as such, also during my 4th fruitful year with SS.
But, hey feel free to bitch and moan if that makes your day ;) However, you should also consider some sacrifice on the altar of microstock's God. This might help you more than your curent ritual.
Anyway, my method is definitely healthier and more peaceful.
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Bitching and moaning usually don't work for anything. What we all need to do is spill some chicken blood though a holy ritual or sacrifice a virgin to the Microstock gods.
Either that or people can learn how to effectively compete against ever growing portfolio of SS. If you can't fight off the army of inexperienced newbies, then the individual must reflect and start blaming himself/herself instead of the agency.
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But, hey feel free to bitch and moan if that makes your day ;)
Actually, as I suspect most people here realized, my "bitchin' and moanin'" line was made with tongue firmly planted in cheek.
If you check back over these posts, you don't actually find me doing much of that. I'm certainly not the worst offender.
But feel free to be smug with your "skill" and "method." Whatever makes you feel happy and superior.
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But, hey feel free to bitch and moan if that makes your day ;)
Actually, as I suspect most people here realized, my "bitchin' and moanin'" line was made with tongue firmly planted in cheek.
If you check back over these posts, you don't actually find me doing much of that. I'm certainly not the worst offender.
But feel free to be smug with your "skill" and "method." Whatever makes you feel happy and superior.
Ha, ha :-* ! I'm not smug with my skill. Only with my "method": NOT "bitchin' and moanin'", that is. Or whinin' for that matter :P
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But, hey feel free to bitch and moan if that makes your day ;)
Actually, as I suspect most people here realized, my "bitchin' and moanin'" line was made with tongue firmly planted in cheek.
If you check back over these posts, you don't actually find me doing much of that. I'm certainly not the worst offender.
But feel free to be smug with your "skill" and "method." Whatever makes you feel happy and superior.
Ha, ha :-* ! I'm not smug with my skill. Only with my "method": NOT "bitchin' and moanin'", that is. Or whinin' for that matter :P
Methinks the gentleman (lady?) doth protest too much.
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But, hey feel free to bitch and moan if that makes your day ;)
Actually, as I suspect most people here realized, my "bitchin' and moanin'" line was made with tongue firmly planted in cheek.
If you check back over these posts, you don't actually find me doing much of that. I'm certainly not the worst offender.
But feel free to be smug with your "skill" and "method." Whatever makes you feel happy and superior.
Ha, ha :-* ! I'm not smug with my skill. Only with my "method": NOT "bitchin' and moanin'", that is. Or whinin' for that matter :P
Methinks the gentleman (lady?) doth protest too much.
Methinks the lady (Martha or Gertrude?) doth not fell comfortable watching the truth played in front of her.
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:)
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But, hey feel free to bitch and moan if that makes your day ;)
Actually, as I suspect most people here realized, my "bitchin' and moanin'" line was made with tongue firmly planted in cheek.
If you check back over these posts, you don't actually find me doing much of that. I'm certainly not the worst offender.
But feel free to be smug with your "skill" and "method." Whatever makes you feel happy and superior.
Ha, ha :-* ! I'm not smug with my skill. Only with my "method": NOT "bitchin' and moanin'", that is. Or whinin' for that matter :P
Methinks the gentleman (lady?) doth protest too much.
Methinks the lady (Martha or Gertrude?) doth not fell comfortable watching the truth played in front of her.
Gertrude???
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Gertrude???
Yes, Gertrude. Queen Gertrude.
Why three question marks? I thought you knew who you paraphrased.
Anyway, I'm afraid that Martha too, is feeling uncomfortable.
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Gertrude???
Yes, Gertrude. Queen Gertrude.
Why three question marks? I thought you knew who you paraphrased.
Anyway, I'm afraid that Martha too, is feeling uncomfortable.
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Zero Talent please do not hijack another thread.
We know you are always right, you don't have to tell us again.
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Gertrude???
Yes, Gertrude. Queen Gertrude.
Why three question marks? I thought you knew who you paraphrased.
Anyway, I'm afraid that Martha too, is feeling uncomfortable.
Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk
Zero Talent please do not hijack another thread.
We know you are always right, you don't have to tell us again.
Sorry, I'm not the one hijacking, here.
I post a positive comment about good sales, then I'm been given quotes from Shakespeare.
Look for the root cause, not the effect, please.
Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk
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Gertrude???
Yes, Gertrude. Queen Gertrude.
Why three question marks? I thought you knew who you paraphrased.
Anyway, I'm afraid that Martha too, is feeling uncomfortable.
Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk
Zero Talent please do not hijack another thread.
We know you are always right, you don't have to tell us again.
Sorry, I'm not the one hijacking, here.
I post a positive comment about good sales, then I'm been given quotes from Shakespeare.
Look for the root cause, not the effect, please.
Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk
You are continually jumping from thread to thread picking fights with people. I dare say that you will now try to have one with me.
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Gertrude???
Yes, Gertrude. Queen Gertrude.
Why three question marks? I thought you knew who you paraphrased.
Anyway, I'm afraid that Martha too, is feeling uncomfortable.
Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk
Zero Talent please do not hijack another thread.
We know you are always right, you don't have to tell us again.
Sorry, I'm not the one hijacking, here.
I post a positive comment about good sales, then I'm been given quotes from Shakespeare.
Look for the root cause, not the effect, please.
Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk
You are continually jumping from thread to thread picking fights with people. I dare say that you will now try to have one with me.
See? You are drifting. Instead of talking about sales or argue statements you belive false, now you speculate about individuals. Please don't.
Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk
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Gertrude???
Yes, Gertrude. Queen Gertrude.
Why three question marks? I thought you knew who you paraphrased.
Anyway, I'm afraid that Martha too, is feeling uncomfortable.
Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk
Zero Talent please do not hijack another thread.
We know you are always right, you don't have to tell us again.
Sorry, I'm not the one hijacking, here.
I post a positive comment about good sales, then I'm been given quotes from Shakespeare.
Look for the root cause, not the effect, please.
Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk
You are continually jumping from thread to thread picking fights with people. I dare say that you will now try to have one with me.
See? You are drifting. Instead of talking about sales or argue statements you belive false, now you speculate about individuals. Please don't.
Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk
I'm new to these forums and I have found most comments to be useful, informative or entertaining. You however appear to be the forum bully.
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Sometimes attempts at irony with user names can be revealing
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... You however appear to be the forum bully.
bully:
use superior strength or influence to intimidate (someone), typically to force him or her to do what one wants.
I don't have any superior strength, nor influence. I don't want to intimidate nor force anyone to do anything.
Fact checking and debating doubtful arguments is a different thing. Maybe some can find hard to listen to different or even unpopular, outside main-stream opinions. But believe me, this is not bullying.
Anyway, please allow me to stay on topic: today's SS sales look normal. On the other hand, FT had a great start (the equivalent of the monthly minimum payment in less than half a day). So I concur with those seeing nice growth coming from Adobe/FT.
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Martha, thanks for the hint about exclusivity for some images on FT. I have a bunch of exclusives on DT which I think is why my sales there often beat the average. I may give it a try on FT too and see how that works. I just joined recently have a very small port there, but it's picking up. SS is very busy for me this month too with many more ODDs and SODs than I've seen in quite a while, but no Els there since November.
It's worth a try to test some images as exclusives on different sites. I don't have any exclusives anywhere else but on FT. Never did that on DT and of course can't do it on SS.
But several of my good 2015 images that cranky-and-unpredictable SS reviewers didn't accept have done well on FT, so after a few of those sales I realized I should make them exclusives there. Hard to say what the best long-term strategy is. Experimentation seems a good idea.
Congrats for being successful at SS this month. Your port is unusual, so something there must be striking a chord.
Thanks Martha! Just plugging away. SS seems to license all different kinds of images for me so I guess having a varied port works for me there, even though I don't have much in the way of traditional lifestyle stock. FT is picking up too.
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Anyway, my method is definitely healthier and more peaceful.
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It is very clear from the exchanges on this and every other thread you participate in that nothing abou you or your methods are peaceful. You are the most argumentative and aggressive person who currently posts here. But please don't feel special. You are just the latest in a long line of unpleasant types who are the reason this site has lost so many members, and others no longer post.
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Anyway, my method is definitely healthier and more peaceful.
Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk
It is very clear from the exchanges on this and every other thread you participate in that nothing abou you or your methods are peaceful. You are the most argumentative and aggressive person who currently posts here. But please don't feel special. You are just the latest in a long line of unpleasant types who are the reason this site has lost so many members, and others no longer post.
Obviously you're going off topic with this personal attack. Don't blame me for responding to it, OK?
May I remind you that what appears unpleasant to you is the fact that I didn't sing the same sad song, so popular on this forum.
I disagreed with your "poor sales caused by shenanigans" theory. It just happens that I have a different opinion and I tried to provide the necessary arguments to support it.
Instead of addressing the arguments, you use, again, the easy solution of blaming the person making the arguments. This is no different than blanket blaming agencies and their "shenanigans" for "poor sales".
Every thread, your say? Really?
Maybe some people are leaving because they are tired of listening, over and over again, to all these "low sales" depressing comments.
Positive news and experiences appear to be rather unpopular among a small but vocal, know-it-all, circle of seasoned contributors.
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Hi PixelBytes,
Don't waste your time with 'Zero Talent' as he's always right.
I do have one solution for you. At the bottom of one of his posts there's a text link to 'Ignore'. Just click it and ignore him. It works for me :)
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Sales at FT were good this month because someone wanted to download 6-7 EL's of my images ...
I assume it was the same buyer as it was right in a row but next month will be back to the same downward trend for me.
I worry it will be a very bad year and to top it off my health insurance increased $600 a year ... Seems like everything is getting more expensive while we are profiting less. (sorry for the complaining though)
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How much credits do you get for EL?
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How much credits do you get for EL?
$25, in my case
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.