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Author Topic: Working together to lead the way with AI  (Read 3997 times)

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« Reply #25 on: October 26, 2022, 05:46 »
+4
This also means the other agencies will follow this trend. Also images are the property of who clicked them, are AI generated images the property of the company? If so then I'm guessing they'll be flooding their ports all over


« Reply #26 on: October 26, 2022, 05:53 »
+6
If you read the FAQ, they have 2 ways of doing the AI business:
1/ Selling datasets for training AI (no commercial or public use).
2/Generating content for customers.

Ad 1/  Is there any compensation for contributors for selling datasets? Will be there the opt out option?
And in final if client will want to use one non-commercially generated image commercially, I guess that SS will allow it for good amount of money, but we will be compensated only for one standard generated image.

Ad2/  I think that this is brilliant idea. The problem with the AI generated contend is the copyright of images in datasets. But they found a solution - they will pay us "compensation".  So the copyright is OK now. Win-win situation for SS and OpenAI.

They also can generate billions of images for shutterstock database and pay us one time compensation. Any image generated and selected by client can be directly added in SS database. Clients will train the AI and replace reviewers. Tags will be generated from our keywords and client description.

Can the future Ai be trained on Ai generated content? I don't know.

Also we can be sure, that our images will be almost invisible on SS website. $0.10 per image is too much now.

Anyway they need us now, they need to pay us some compensation to get the license/copyright . But they will replace us very soon.

« Last Edit: October 26, 2022, 05:56 by cosus »

« Reply #27 on: October 26, 2022, 07:06 »
+1
For some customers at beginning it could be a wonder feature but I think its little pointless to sell it this way since anyone can produce tons of it instantly even with all free images that are in the web. So no one will actually need AI images of sstk or any other microstock site when a customer realizes it can do it very easily too.

The way i see it ,AI generated images its a very small part of what you can produce with AI and real data image.
The actual value is in real images with real data.

For example you want to determine the velocity of a Hurricane or the size of ocean wave by video/image. Other example, you want to mocap an real animal movement or a dance style. The list is endless of possibilities to use AI with real data.

The actual problem with microstock sites today is most of the features AI requires to have good video for Machine learning (not artistic, more documentary, long shot with no movement). This means more opportunities for us to start doing this kind of shots of everything. Instead of doing close ups, pans and tilts we should think ahead and capture also for this kind of business. Anyway i recommend to choose a niche and try to present your database and sell it directly to research companies. From my experience it's much more profitable!   



« Reply #28 on: October 26, 2022, 07:09 »
+11
A few things people need to realize:

1. the Genie is out of the bottle and wont go back in

2. SS or any other agency is not your friend

3. they will go the cheapest route to get rid of us and use our content legally to train the AI

4. they already used our content in "datasets", even if you opt out they gonna use the already established datasets. The opt out is just a throwaway token to keep the backlash lower.

5. do not get your hopes high that the "payout" for training our new AI overlord will be decent. Both companies profit from that deal, OpenAI gets to train the AI and SS gets to sell generated images. The money exchanged therefore will be minimal and will be a throwaway token to keep us a bit calmer and make it easy for the lawyers.

6. we probably agreed to the training by some clause in the terms of service, you can be sure they covered their legal ass before backstabbing us

7. the AI will learn by itself once user interactions are plentiful. Meaning it will determine trends and good images by what is sold and what is clicked on.

8. The bias argument already came up a few months ago and OpenAI addressed it by filtering in a bunch of black and asian looking "humans"

9. get strapped in because it is not going away, we maybe have a year left. Adjust now.

Farewell and godspeed.

« Reply #29 on: October 26, 2022, 07:40 »
+1
Our value is only in copyright of our images. Big customers needs to be sure that any generated image is properly licensed. So OpenAi needs SS, because SS controls licensed content. Nothing more. They don't need any new images from us. As long us we will give them license to generate new content, they are happy.

We know that most of contributors will do nothing - many are from poor areas - happy to get every $, many don't understant English well enough to read the message. Many are from Russia or Ukraine and limited in some way to act. So even if we opt out (too late), they will replace us. Soon.

It seams that they already sold datasets with our content. Most likely we agreed with that somewhere, we can't opt out and we will not be even paid for it. They can do it maybe because it's not intended for commercial use? So they make profit from it. We don't. Nice.


« Reply #30 on: October 26, 2022, 08:07 »
+1
  • What about users who don't have a dedicated IP but have a shared IP? The internet knows your IP address because it's assigned to your device and is required to browse the internet. Your IP address changes, though, every time you connect to a different Wi-Fi network or router.

This has nothing to do with IP address. IP is Intelectual Property, basically "content with author rights".

« Reply #31 on: October 26, 2022, 10:09 »
+2
Wow, they somehow managed to lowball Freepik. All at our expense of course

« Reply #32 on: October 26, 2022, 12:37 »
0
...

Amazon used a powerful AI to hire the beat and brightest. It filtered thousands of applications and was doing really well. Until one day the higher ups looked at their workforce and struggled to find a female.

What had happened was that the AI had become a misogynist. In fact it made the decision to deliberately seek out any female application and avoid processing it. It learnt rather interesting and efficient ways to do this. It would look at their applications and search for their school. If it was an all female school it rejected them immediately. If that didn't work it searched their social media.

you didnt mention this was still in the research phase when amazon discovered the bias & shut the program down before it went live
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-amazon-com-jobs-automation-insight/amazon-scraps-secret-ai-recruiting-tool-that-showed-bias-against-women-idUSKCN1MK08G
 
Quote
And now we are going to enjoy SS's budget version. Which will do what. AIs generally become with each iteration more feral.

I would imagine it will completely destroy SS by using data sets that are completely false and will skew everything.
yes, your imagination!  why would they be completely false? there are many examples of successful ML. and the current AI generators are far from being either 'feral' (whatever that means!) or 'false'.  in fact, each iteration should make the AI stronger - what's your reason for saying more training will make the AI worse?

« Reply #33 on: October 26, 2022, 13:16 »
+1
If datasets are made up of our data and data can only be kept for a period of time that is deemed reasonable then surely each refresh of the datasets would require previous ones to be deleted?!? If thats the case then thats maybe why payment is every 6 months. If we opt out then the current dataset will not be based on our images and the AI system can only use the latest dataset?!.

I feel there are a lot of questions SS need to answer and to make clear to their contributors otherwise they will run the risk of the biggest contributors taking some sort of class action against them. This will eventually put everyone out of work otherwise, including agencies.

« Reply #34 on: October 26, 2022, 14:04 »
+6
I might be an outlier herebut how many customers will actually use AI to generate content for their projects, instead of downloading ready pictures?

I have been playing around with nightcafe creator for over a year and it is very difficult to create a usable image.

Customers pay agencies not just for the content, but for the time saved finding the right image.

The revenue stream from AI will probably be similar to the tiny income we get with getty/pinterest deal. Our images get pinned and we get minuscule amounts. But we also get a backlink to our images.

If SS added backlinks to the content used for the creation, I could see this as another pinterest style revenue stream.  And might even bring eyes to the ports.

Will they allow us as creators to now use the SS/AI engine to create AI content that then gets added to ports?

AI is here to stay, the question is how can it be integrated in an intelligent way?

For me it is more like an additional asset class.

But maybe  I am wrong and this is the end of everything.

« Reply #35 on: October 26, 2022, 17:30 »
0

Will they allow us as creators to now use the SS/AI engine to create AI content that then gets added to ports?


No - we're not there yet.

« Reply #36 on: October 26, 2022, 22:17 »
+2
A lot of groups are developing AI text-to-image software. Many are Open source not-for-profit endeavors. But in the future many for-profit companies will emerge. And Adobe and Autodesk and other big companies will buy them or license their software in commercial products.

I read that one of the AI text-to-image companies (I think it was Stable Diffusion) spent $hundreds of thousands to train their AI.

If you have your images on several sites (SS, AdobeStock, Vectorstock, and so on) and if a lot of companies pay those sites to train their AIs, and IF those sites pay you a decent fee each time, it could amount to a significant income for you. Because AI text-to-image is going to be BIG.

But the big IF is if SS etc pay you more than a tiny percent of what they get. Probably they will not, as other people posting have said.

The really bad news is that AI will make such great images that it will put microstockers out of business eventually (I have seen amazing stuff made by AI ---I don't make stock images any more but I buy them and I am now using AI-made images in my publications, it's amazing really).

« Reply #37 on: October 27, 2022, 02:42 »
0


you didnt mention this was still in the research phase when amazon discovered the bias & shut the program down before it went live
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-amazon-com-jobs-automation-insight/amazon-scraps-secret-ai-recruiting-tool-that-showed-bias-against-women-idUSKCN1MK08G
 
Quote
And now we are going to enjoy SS's budget version. Which will do what. AIs generally become with each iteration more feral.

I would imagine it will completely destroy SS by using data sets that are completely false and will skew everything.
yes, your imagination!  why would they be completely false? there are many examples of successful ML. and the current AI generators are far from being either 'feral' (whatever that means!) or 'false'.  in fact, each iteration should make the AI stronger - what's your reason for saying more training will make the AI worse?
[/quote]
feral
/ˈfɛr(ə)l,ˈfɪərəl/
adjective
(especially of an animal) in a wild state, especially after escape from captivity or domestication.
"a feral cat"

Perhaps you should have spent your valuable time looking in a dictionary instead of scraping the net to prove me wrong. I didn't forget to mention it was in the testing phase because it wasn't in a testing phase and had been running for some time. According to the expert who was wheeled out to testify about fbook and others extensive use of AI for anything. It certainly wasn't explained that way by the expert but you have a link to a msm article so it must be true.

The data sets will be completely false because if you had a brain in your skull and stopped being a know it all and failing you would realise that when you search SS for images, increasingly what you ask for is nothing like what you expect.

If I ask for a particular insect I get lots of that insect. I also get whatever crap someone decided was that insect. Be it dustbin lid or pencil sharpener. Because of poor identification or poor keywording or whatever it may be. There are millions of photos in the database that are not what they are titled as or even close. Then we can get on to interpretive images. A man sitting on the floor with his back against the wall head down knees up. This could be depressed. Tired. Relaxed. Meditating. Sad. Mourning. It could be anything and will be keyworded as such. And of course it will be. It has been keyworded to fit as many circumstances as possible to sell as widely as possible. You as a seller must imagine everything a buyer wants and show them what that looks like.

What does a palm tree mean. On a beach. With a thunder cloud in an otherwise blue sky. It means whatever attributes were given it by its seller. And that's your data set.

The end aim here is a buyer goes to SS and types in
Labrador dog, coloured pink and singing karaoke. Because they want that on some t-shirts. And this "AI company" will scour the images and create this wonder for them.

And they'll get a mungrel that's punk from karachi. Because those users thought that's what a labrador looked like. And tye other user called it punk not pink because that's what hot pink means to them so they titled it punk and karaoke wasn't in the third person's spelling autocorrect so it changed it to Karachi for them and they didn't notice when they were uploaded 40,000 images that they stole from 40 profiles in the last week.

Give me a break. If you need that explaining to you several things are implied

1. You're a pedant
2. You're an AI
3. You are the owner of the wonder company
4. You 'love' A.I. in a deep and natural way

Whatever you're done.

« Reply #38 on: October 27, 2022, 02:48 »
+6
I will just leave this beauty here to remind everyone of the current quality of AI generated images....  ;)


« Reply #39 on: October 27, 2022, 07:34 »
+1

AI is here to stay, the question is how can it be integrated in an intelligent way?


First step for SS (and others) could be mixing on-the-fly AI generated content based on a search string with real content in the search results.
Customers can choose between AI or real photo's/illustrations. If they can see the difference at all.
Data coming out those "experiments" is very useful for further training of the AI.

Next step might even be a customer selecting 10 images as a baseline for unique AI generated content.

I read a lot of comments from people claiming that most AI generated images are far from perfect.
And I think they're right. For now. But we might be underestimating how fast technology advances.
And we can easily turn it around too: have a look at the average stock library and you'll notice a lot of junk and far from perfect images too.




Uncle Pete

  • Great Place by a Great Lake - My Home Port
« Reply #40 on: October 27, 2022, 11:28 »
+1
I will just leave this beauty here to remind everyone of the current quality of AI generated images....  ;)



Thanks and I'd agree, they aren't very good quality or large enough and often miss the target or produce horribly distorted images. I don't feel doomed or threatened quite yet.

Meanwhile agencies are working with AI and using our images, to create new content, which some day, might be Good Enough. Most of it isn't right now.

SVH

« Reply #41 on: October 27, 2022, 12:22 »
+1
Better still.

Why are agencies refusing contributors AI generated images?

Because they want to create them on their own and not share the pie with us.

But in the end, a customer will create their own content and having no need for an agency at all. So, last straws.

If AI can become of age and generate content on the fly that can really substitute the work we contribute, it's done. Except for editorial obviously.


« Reply #42 on: October 27, 2022, 14:10 »
+1
Why are agencies refusing contributors AI generated images?

Because they want to create them on their own and not share the pie with us.
...

 i disagree w SS new policy -- they had been accepting almost all my DALL-E but rejected latest batch as
Non-Licensable Content: We cannot accept this submission into our commercial or editorial collection, or we are no longer accepting this type of content.

most other agencies reject because they're afraid of copyrights on the training set

but SS avoids that problem because they are training only w images in their library & paying artists based on sales (ignoring fact that actual payments will be near 0)
« Last Edit: October 30, 2022, 13:13 by cascoly »

« Reply #43 on: October 30, 2022, 07:24 »
+2
6. we probably agreed to the training by some clause in the terms of service, you can be sure they covered their legal ass before backstabbing u
Actually, no. I read the TOS carefully and did not find anything about this. They don't need our consent for their own ad usage, that's all. But this is not an ad, this is a profitable business.
So, AI is already trained, our works was already used. Against our will and without any compensation.

« Reply #44 on: October 30, 2022, 11:39 »
0
I bet they also try to retain rights to the AI images and add the ones actually purchased to the collection. Even replacing us in searches with images generated from ours  :(

« Reply #45 on: October 30, 2022, 13:03 »
0
... dupe
« Last Edit: October 30, 2022, 13:08 by cascoly »

« Reply #46 on: October 30, 2022, 13:08 »
0
6. we probably agreed to the training by some clause in the terms of service, you can be sure they covered their legal ass before backstabbing u
Actually, no. I read the TOS carefully and did not find anything about this. They don't need our consent for their own ad usage, that's all. But this is not an ad, this is a profitable business.
So, AI is already trained, our works was already used. Against our will and without any compensation.

« Reply #47 on: October 30, 2022, 13:12 »
0
I bet they also try to retain rights to the AI images and add the ones actually purchased to the collection. Even replacing us in searches with images generated from ours  :(

no need to try - those are the terms of the AI generator. it's the same as if their employees created illustrations or photos the old fashioned way. shift happens.


« Reply #48 on: October 31, 2022, 09:07 »
+3
I bet they also try to retain rights to the AI images and add the ones actually purchased to the collection. Even replacing us in searches with images generated from ours  :(

no need to try - those are the terms of the AI generator. it's the same as if their employees created illustrations or photos the old fashioned way. shift happens.
I do hope this gets tested in court. Preferably in the EU where artists are more likely to get a fair deal.

« Reply #49 on: November 03, 2022, 10:01 »
+1
I bet they also try to retain rights to the AI images and add the ones actually purchased to the collection. Even replacing us in searches with images generated from ours  :(

no need to try - those are the terms of the AI generator. it's the same as if their employees created illustrations or photos the old fashioned way. shift happens.
I do hope this gets tested in court. Preferably in the EU where artists are more likely to get a fair deal.

what would a fair deal look like? what compensation would be appropriate for an artist who contributed 1 (or 100+) images to a training set of millions?



 

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