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Microstock Photography Forum - General => Site Related => Topic started by: leaf on February 16, 2012, 16:39

Title: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: leaf on February 16, 2012, 16:39
The last couple months there have been some problems with the polls recording the votes properly.  I have the issue fixed and have also reworked the poll so they will be more representative of actual figures in the results.

Cast your vote now
http://www.microstockgroup.com/pollsvote/ (http://www.microstockgroup.com/pollsvote/)

Once the results are in, the ranking on the sidebar will be calculated a little differently.  Currently it is just an average of the 1-10 vote that used to be in place for voting.  Now it will be an average of the actual $$ amounts (expressed in a scale of 1-10) which should give a pretty good indication of how much farther ahead the top sites are from the bottom sites.

I'm open to feedback as always...

The results page will have to wait until tomorrow for the fix but hopefully we can get some history displayed there so we can see developments over time.
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: jamirae on February 16, 2012, 16:55
oh wow.. that's awesome!  thanks for fixing it!
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: Jo Ann Snover on February 16, 2012, 17:10
It says I can vote in March. I've never used the poll before, and it says I have no previous vote so why would I wait?

And if I voted today, assuming I could, am I voting for January 2012? It might be helpful to show what month of sales your vote is applying to.

Seeing more amounts in the list is very helpful - thanks.
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: BaldricksTrousers on February 16, 2012, 17:21
Where does the iStock PP go? Is it part of iStock  (which means the form can't be filled until the last week of the month) or should it be there as a separate entity, just as SS and BS are dealt with separately though they are associated companies?
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: leaf on February 16, 2012, 17:30
Where does the iStock PP go? Is it part of iStock  (which means the form can't be filled until the last week of the month) or should it be there as a separate entity, just as SS and BS are dealt with separately though they are associated companies?

You should enter the income on the site you request payout from and enter the value from the month you take out of that site.

So, iStock would include the Partner programs that are through iStock, but not the StockXpert money you may or may not get.  Which month which PP earnings came in is over complicating things.  If I got $X from iStock last month I vote for $X, no matter which month the money was technically earned in.
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: leaf on February 16, 2012, 17:31
It says I can vote in March. I've never used the poll before, and it says I have no previous vote so why would I wait?
Does it still not let you vote?  Does it tell you what you supposidly voted last month??

And if I voted today, assuming I could, am I voting for January 2012? It might be helpful to show what month of sales your vote is applying to.
fixed
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: lisafx on February 16, 2012, 17:38
It won't let me vote either.  It's got some pretty strange numbers that it said I voted.  None of them are accurate.  Don't know how to reset it so I can make an accurate vote. 

Nice idea to change it, but I may have to wait until March to use it. 
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: leaf on February 16, 2012, 17:40
It won't let me vote either.  It's got some pretty strange numbers that it said I voted.  None of them are accurate.  Don't know how to reset it so I can make an accurate vote. 

Nice idea to change it, but I may have to wait until March to use it. 

no, I've gotta make it so you can vote this month.  there is a bug somewhere .. :S
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: BaldricksTrousers on February 16, 2012, 17:41
Where does the iStock PP go? Is it part of iStock  (which means the form can't be filled until the last week of the month) or should it be there as a separate entity, just as SS and BS are dealt with separately though they are associated companies?

You should enter the income on the site you request payout from and enter the value from the month you take out of that site.

So, iStock would include the Partner programs that are through iStock, but not the StockXpert money you may or may not get.  Which month which PP earnings came in is over complicating things.  If I got $X from iStock last month I vote for $X, no matter which month the money was technically earned in.

So it's not about monthly earnings, it's about when I happen to request my cheques? With Fotolia that used to be about once a year. Last month I think I claimed six weeks earnings from iStock in one go, including two months' PP, having missed a couple of payout dates. so the whole thing would be completely distorted. 123 only pays out once I have more than $200 in hand, which is not every month. I'll end up recording maybe two months of zero earnings at 123 followed by maybe $260 in month three, then back to zero again.

 
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: leaf on February 16, 2012, 17:43
can someone who is having problems tell me what their 'Time Value" and "Voter ID" are.. that should show up on the page now.
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: chromaco on February 16, 2012, 17:45
This is great. One other suggestion if its not to hard. Separate categories for istock exclusives versus independents?
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: leaf on February 16, 2012, 17:45
Where does the iStock PP go? Is it part of iStock  (which means the form can't be filled until the last week of the month) or should it be there as a separate entity, just as SS and BS are dealt with separately though they are associated companies?

You should enter the income on the site you request payout from and enter the value from the month you take out of that site.

So, iStock would include the Partner programs that are through iStock, but not the StockXpert money you may or may not get.  Which month which PP earnings came in is over complicating things.  If I got $X from iStock last month I vote for $X, no matter which month the money was technically earned in.

So it's not about monthly earnings, it's about when I happen to request my cheques? With Fotolia that used to be about once a year. Last month I think I claimed six weeks earnings from iStock in one go, including two months' PP, having missed a couple of payout dates. so the whole thing would be completely distorted. 123 only pays out once I have more than $200 in hand, which is not every month. I'll end up recording maybe two months of zero earnings at 123 followed by maybe $260 in month three, then back to zero again.


No it's about earnings, but the amount is simply whatever earnings that site is reporting as income for that month
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: leaf on February 16, 2012, 17:47
This is great. One other suggestion if its not to hard. Separate categories for istock exclusives versus independents?

yeah i considered that and I'm not sure how to go about it.  I could easily sort out the results by looking at the people who only vote for iStock earnings.. and perhaps report that separately but not sure how useful it would be.
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: thesentinel on February 16, 2012, 17:52
can someone who is having problems tell me what their 'Time Value" and "Voter ID" are.. that should show up on the page now.
Time value: 0212
Voter: 447
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: BaldricksTrousers on February 16, 2012, 17:57

No it's about earnings, but the amount is simply whatever earnings that site is reporting as income for that month

But iStock hasn't reported the January income yet, because the PP isn't there, which should be about 30% of the total.
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: leaf on February 16, 2012, 18:01

No it's about earnings, but the amount is simply whatever earnings that site is reporting as income for that month

But iStock hasn't reported the January income yet, because the PP isn't there, which should be about 30% of the total.

but they would have reported the Dec PP income in january.. adding to the January totals.
The Feb total for iStock will include the PP for January.

... or if you want to wait and submit your jan totals at the end of Feb, you can feel free to do so.  This isn't a scientific poll, just a general idea of what income looks like across the sites.
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: lisafx on February 16, 2012, 18:01
can someone who is having problems tell me what their 'Time Value" and "Voter ID" are.. that should show up on the page now.
Time value: 0212
Voter: 447

Time value 0212
Voter 958
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: leaf on February 16, 2012, 18:11
ok.. things may be fixed now.... hopefully
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: thesentinel on February 16, 2012, 18:16
ok.. things may be fixed now.... hopefully

Fixed for me thanks  :)
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: Microstock Man on February 16, 2012, 18:40
Err, bug in Poll Results perhaps? Shutterstock is currently showing 100, Istock 64.9 etc etc. Biggest numbers I've ever seen!
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: traveler1116 on February 16, 2012, 18:49
Maybe you could put vote totals in () like Shutterstock 100 (15)
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: luissantos84 on February 16, 2012, 18:58
green for up, red for down
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: Microstock Man on February 16, 2012, 19:10
Oops, should probably have read the whole thread a bit better!
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: Freedom on February 16, 2012, 19:50
Leaf, can you please explain the results?

For instance, when SS is 100, how do you reach the result? Does it mean that the average income for each voter is $100? Or does it mean that on a scale of 100, SS reaches the top?
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: Jo Ann Snover on February 16, 2012, 19:59
I was able to vote now - thanks
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: luissantos84 on February 16, 2012, 21:32
wow.. looks like IS exclusives are running the poll :D
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: Allsa on February 16, 2012, 22:03
IS on top? Please tell me it's wrong...
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: Microstock Man on February 16, 2012, 22:22
I'm so confused by whats going on right now with the poll...

Hopefully by tomorrow it will have sorted itself all out and YayMicro will be at the top as it rightfully should be...
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: Jo Ann Snover on February 16, 2012, 23:10
IS on top? Please tell me it's wrong...

Given that Leaf added some higher numbers and that exclusives and independents are not separated, it would make sense that if exclusives are adding their votes, IS will almost always come out on top. Even if Sean doesn't vote :)

I think exclusives and independents need to have votes tallied separately and the comparison needs to be between the total of independents' earnings and exclusives' iStock earnings. Otherwise it won't tell us anything useful at the top end.
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: nicku on February 17, 2012, 00:51
IS the first agency??? NO WAY this is possible.... like @jsnover say... maybe an independent pool for the exclusives is needed. Every indies on this forum can confirm that SS portfolio is earning more than IS.
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: BaldricksTrousers on February 17, 2012, 01:59
For me, IS + PP = SS, more or less (a couple of ELs can swing it either way). We know that iS pays out many times more than SS every month, so in one way it is still the top agency by miles.
I guess the figures show how thinly the payout is spread once it is split between a load of senior contributors. It amazes me that Fotolia is above DT, though it never got near that for me, and that Veer is anywhere near the middle tier.
Since the istock payout is multiplied several times over for exclusives their result does not reflect [payout/contributors], it is [payout x exclusive bonus level/contributors] which will skew the results and makes them meaningless. It would be much better to split iStock into two. The exclusive iStock reading would obviously come top, but the independent figure should show where it comes for them and comparison of the two might give an idea of how much benefit exclusivity has.
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: lagereek on February 17, 2012, 02:27
Not sure but it can be very possible IS,  is in front, lets face it, every Joe Bloggs, exclusive at IS, can come and vote here, could be thousands for all we know plus all the ones casting dodgy votes.
Really these polls should be for indies or else we dont get a true picture, do we?
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: nicku on February 17, 2012, 02:35
Not sure but it can be very possible IS,  is in front, lets face it, every Joe Bloggs, exclusive at IS, can come and vote here, could be thousands for all we know plus all the ones casting dodgy votes.
Really these polls should be for indies or else we dont get a true picture, do we?
Agree...
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: sharply_done on February 17, 2012, 03:05
I think the easiest solution to this iStock problem might be to simply list iStock twice: iStock (Exclusive) and iStock (Independent) - whether that will result in anything meaningful is anyone's guess, but it'll more than likely paint a more accurate picture than the current one.

It's either that or exclude all data from exclusives.
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: ayzek on February 17, 2012, 03:14
Leaf,
why dont we add an option for Direct Sales(personal websites).
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: Microstock Posts on February 17, 2012, 03:24
Not sure but it can be very possible IS,  is in front, lets face it, every Joe Bloggs, exclusive at IS, can come and vote here, could be thousands for all we know plus all the ones casting dodgy votes.
Really these polls should be for indies or else we dont get a true picture, do we?
Agree...

Yeah, indies don't have huge biases, they are happy when they get money from any of the agencies and are likely to report accurately when this happens. Exclusives who have to defend their one and only agent by default are more likely to fiddle the truth.
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: traveler1116 on February 17, 2012, 03:35
Yeah, indies don't have huge biases, they are happy when they get money from any of the agencies and are likely to report accurately when this happens. Exclusives who have to defend their one and only agent by default are more likely to fiddle the truth.
Why?  What purpose would it serve to "fiddle the truth" we get paid in money not poll results don't we?
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: lagereek on February 17, 2012, 04:02
Yeah, indies don't have huge biases, they are happy when they get money from any of the agencies and are likely to report accurately when this happens. Exclusives who have to defend their one and only agent by default are more likely to fiddle the truth.
Why?  What purpose would it serve to "fiddle the truth" we get paid in money not poll results don't we?

Not fiddle the truth as such but if you get enough exclusives reporting good earnings from IS, thats just one agency, right,  where as all indies are reporting from lots of differant agencies and this will give a false picture.
Besides, its pretty obvious that an exclusive is ofcourse bias towards his own agency.
In any event, these polls should really be for independants only,  since we are interested in the overall picture not just one agency.

also dont forget, most of us here have dumped IS, not even uploading!  so whats the point?
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: BaldricksTrousers on February 17, 2012, 04:06
Leaf,
why dont we add an option for Direct Sales(personal websites).

That wouldn't convey any information. Some people have good marketing/self-promotion skills, others don't. Every result will be different for completely diffierent reasons and the average will mean nothing.
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: leaf on February 17, 2012, 04:08
Leaf,
why dont we add an option for Direct Sales(personal websites).

That wouldn't convey any information. Some people have good marketing/self-promotion skills, others don't. Every result will be different for completely diffierent reasons and the average will mean nothing.

I think it would be interesting to see how many people are making it work.. if the 'direct sales' start to creep up the poll it means a lot of people are doing something right...
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: thesentinel on February 17, 2012, 04:13
Not sure but it can be very possible IS,  is in front, lets face it, every Joe Bloggs, exclusive at IS, can come and vote here, could be thousands for all we know plus all the ones casting dodgy votes.
Really these polls should be for indies or else we dont get a true picture, do we?
Agree...

Yeah, indies don't have huge biases, they are happy when they get money from any of the agencies and are likely to report accurately when this happens. Exclusives who have to defend their one and only agent by default are more likely to fiddle the truth.

Jeez

I for one have plenty other things to do with my life than fiddle the truth. I am sure the majority here have better things to do than play mind games.
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: Microstock Posts on February 17, 2012, 04:22
Not sure but it can be very possible IS,  is in front, lets face it, every Joe Bloggs, exclusive at IS, can come and vote here, could be thousands for all we know plus all the ones casting dodgy votes.
Really these polls should be for indies or else we dont get a true picture, do we?
Agree...

Yeah, indies don't have huge biases, they are happy when they get money from any of the agencies and are likely to report accurately when this happens. Exclusives who have to defend their one and only agent by default are more likely to fiddle the truth.

Jeez

I for one have plenty other things to do with my life than fiddle the truth. I am sure the majority here have better things to do than play mind games.

Still doesn't explain why thread after thread, for so many months, of contributors complaining about massive income drops in their istock earnings, yet the poll shows no drop at all, not in the slightest.
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: leaf on February 17, 2012, 04:28
Not sure but it can be very possible IS,  is in front, lets face it, every Joe Bloggs, exclusive at IS, can come and vote here, could be thousands for all we know plus all the ones casting dodgy votes.
Really these polls should be for indies or else we dont get a true picture, do we?
Agree...

Yeah, indies don't have huge biases, they are happy when they get money from any of the agencies and are likely to report accurately when this happens. Exclusives who have to defend their one and only agent by default are more likely to fiddle the truth.

Jeez

I for one have plenty other things to do with my life than fiddle the truth. I am sure the majority here have better things to do than play mind games.

Still doesn't explain why thread after thread, for so many months, of contributors complaining about massive income drops in their istock earnings, yet the poll shows no drop at all, not in the slightest.

it could be that the people with the largest income.. who see big drops, say from $4000 down to $200/month were still only able to vote at $1000 the whole time.  Hopefully this new set up helps a bit more and yes, I'll plan to sort out the exclusives / vs non-exclusives.
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: leaf on February 17, 2012, 04:32
Leaf, can you please explain the results?

For instance, when SS is 100, how do you reach the result? Does it mean that the average income for each voter is $100? Or does it mean that on a scale of 100, SS reaches the top?

I haven't totally settled on how best to display the results yet (yesterday I was focusing on reworking the poll itself).. but this is how it works now.

I have chosen not to display the actual average of the votes because, simply, it means nothing.  If the avg. for site X was $1000 that doesn't mean the average microstocker is making $1000 or that you can expect to make $1000 on that site, it just means that for everyone who happened to vote the avg was $1000.  What that CAN tell is though, is something when compared to site Y who has an average of $500 ... site Y is earning half of what site X is for people (on average) and that is interesting.  Therefore, the top site is currently set at 100 and everything is organized below as a ratio of that.  So if Dreamstime is at 50 and Shutterstock is at 100 then people are (on average) earning half as much on Dreamstime as they are on Shutterstock.  The sites at 1 ... well, the earnings are pretty small to nill.
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: aeonf on February 17, 2012, 04:37
If what the poll does is simple avereges then the results will be heavly skewed (as can be seen already) towards IS since all exclusives will give some positive (and motsly high number) for IS and a 0 for the rest.
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: leaf on February 17, 2012, 04:39
If what the poll does is simple avereges then the results will be heavly skewed (as can be seen already) towards IS since all exclusives will give some positive (and motsly high number) for IS and a 0 for the rest.

They should give 'no vote' for the rest - which isn't included in the results.  A 0 vote is different than a 'no vote' vote.  and yeah, i'm working at sorting out the exclusives.
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: Microstock Posts on February 17, 2012, 04:42
Still doesn't explain why thread after thread, for so many months, of contributors complaining about massive income drops in their istock earnings, yet the poll shows no drop at all, not in the slightest.

it could be that the people with the largest income.. who see big drops, say from $4000 down to $200/month were still only able to vote at $1000 the whole time.  Hopefully this new set up helps a bit more and yes, I'll plan to sort out the exclusives / vs non-exclusives.

Thanks Leaf. I'm sure everyone appreciates your work on this. If so many people look to the poll and think it is a matter of fact, might as well try and get the best system there is.
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: nicku on February 17, 2012, 04:49
@leaf

i suggest a control  poll (only for indies) regarding this matter.... include only IS,SS,DT,FT and 123RF. the question is simple:

Mark the fallowing agencies in order of income. ex. 1- SS , 2-IS , 3 DT,FT etc.... If the results will be similar to the actual pool than the new algorithm is representing the reality correctly.
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: etienjones on February 17, 2012, 04:52
Well done Leaf.  Once the Exclusives are separated out I think the relative earnings between IS and SS will be more representative.
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: ayzek on February 17, 2012, 05:53
Leaf,
why dont we add an option for Direct Sales(personal websites).

That wouldn't convey any information. Some people have good marketing/self-promotion skills, others don't. Every result will be different for completely diffierent reasons and the average will mean nothing.

Poll's current form doesnt show two of my big 4 seller which is Alamy and my site.
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: leaf on February 17, 2012, 06:01
Leaf,
why dont we add an option for Direct Sales(personal websites).

That wouldn't convey any information. Some people have good marketing/self-promotion skills, others don't. Every result will be different for completely diffierent reasons and the average will mean nothing.

Poll's current form doesnt show two of my big 4 seller which is Alamy and my site.

I haven't had alamy in the poll because they aren't technically a microstock site, even though I know lots of us use them.  Perhaps they should be added...
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: leaf on February 17, 2012, 06:14
Well done Leaf.  Once the Exclusives are separated out I think the relative earnings between IS and SS will be more representative.

exclusives are now not included in the total.  I'll have to find a way of displaying them seperatly
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: thesentinel on February 17, 2012, 06:30
Well done Leaf.  Once the Exclusives are separated out I think the relative earnings between IS and SS will be more representative.

exclusives are now not included in the total.  I'll have to find a way of displaying them seperatly

So this is now exclusively non exclusive
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: Eyedesign on February 17, 2012, 06:32
Been that way for years.  ;D
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: wut on February 17, 2012, 07:04
If what the poll does is simple avereges then the results will be heavly skewed (as can be seen already) towards IS since all exclusives will give some positive (and motsly high number) for IS and a 0 for the rest.

Lol, that explains the poll results perfectly (if many ppl think and more importantly act like that)
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: etienjones on February 17, 2012, 09:29
Actually the way it is set up now is very useful.  If I understand it correctly, the top earner in $$ terms, on average, is SS with IS, on average, bringing in 76% of SS across the voting population. Excluding Exclusives.

Useful indeed.
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: cthoman on February 17, 2012, 10:26
Leaf,
why dont we add an option for Direct Sales(personal websites).

That wouldn't convey any information. Some people have good marketing/self-promotion skills, others don't. Every result will be different for completely diffierent reasons and the average will mean nothing.

I think it would be interesting to see how many people are making it work.. if the 'direct sales' start to creep up the poll it means a lot of people are doing something right...

I think it would be interesting to see as well.
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: dirkr on February 17, 2012, 10:51
Dumb question: You added a lot more earnings categories to make the results more granular. Why don't you just use a simple input field where everyone who votes enters the real dollar amount?
The data is not public anyway, and if somebody is willing to vote that he is earning between $2000 and $2500, than why wouldn't he be willing to type in $2344 exactly?
That would take away any skewed results due to the different "earning categories" completely...
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: ayzek on February 17, 2012, 11:22
Leaf, can you please explain the results?

For instance, when SS is 100, how do you reach the result? Does it mean that the average income for each voter is $100? Or does it mean that on a scale of 100, SS reaches the top?

I haven't totally settled on how best to display the results yet (yesterday I was focusing on reworking the poll itself).. but this is how it works now.

I have chosen not to display the actual average of the votes because, simply, it means nothing.  If the avg. for site X was $1000 that doesn't mean the average microstocker is making $1000 or that you can expect to make $1000 on that site, it just means that for everyone who happened to vote the avg was $1000.  What that CAN tell is though, is something when compared to site Y who has an average of $500 ... site Y is earning half of what site X is for people (on average) and that is interesting.  Therefore, the top site is currently set at 100 and everything is organized below as a ratio of that.  So if Dreamstime is at 50 and Shutterstock is at 100 then people are (on average) earning half as much on Dreamstime as they are on Shutterstock.  The sites at 1 ... well, the earnings are pretty small to nill.

Why dont we use same % system like monthly earnings charts.
Sites rates in total earning maybe more clear than this one.

By the way i like also this one.
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: luissantos84 on February 17, 2012, 11:28
100 is the max?
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: cthoman on February 17, 2012, 11:54
100 is the max?

I think it's like a percentage, so SS is the biggest earning agency and 100%. IS is 76% of what SS makes all the way down to SF which is about 2% of what SS earns for most contributors.

I kind of liked having the actual dollar figures though, although it probably always skewed low since the higher numbers are capped.
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: leaf on February 17, 2012, 12:16
Actually the way it is set up now is very useful.  If I understand it correctly, the top earner in $$ terms, on average, is SS with IS, on average, bringing in 76% of SS across the voting population. Excluding Exclusives.

Useful indeed.

Yeah, you are correct. 

100 is the max 'rating', which yes is sort of a percentage.  The top performing site will always have 100.  If the average for shutterstock is $500 and the average for Fotolia is $250 then Shutterstock sill have a rating of 100 and Fotolia will have a rating of 50
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: leaf on February 17, 2012, 12:19
Dumb question: You added a lot more earnings categories to make the results more granular. Why don't you just use a simple input field where everyone who votes enters the real dollar amount?
The data is not public anyway, and if somebody is willing to vote that he is earning between $2000 and $2500, than why wouldn't he be willing to type in $2344 exactly?
That would take away any skewed results due to the different "earning categories" completely...

I have thought quite a bit about the best input method.  I wanted something that was quick to fill in and hard(er) to spam.  If I left an open box, we'd have people who enter 1,000,000 for earnings on a site just to be dumb.  It isn't as fun to enter $2500 although I'm sure some people do that too.  On the average though I think it probably all works out.  I could just delete bogus votes like that but where to draw the line then?

I thought of trying to get a slider to work, but ended up with the radio buttons which are (hopefully) fairly quick to click and perhaps quicker than typing in actual numbers.
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: asiseeit on February 17, 2012, 13:02
If what the poll does is simple avereges then the results will be heavly skewed (as can be seen already) towards IS since all exclusives will give some positive (and motsly high number) for IS and a 0 for the rest.

They should give 'no vote' for the rest - which isn't included in the results.  A 0 vote is different than a 'no vote' vote.  and yeah, i'm working at sorting out the exclusives.

You might want to add higher numbers than $2.5k... for the exclusive option at least.
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: lisafx on February 17, 2012, 17:54
I just took the updated poll.  Very nice as is, IMO. 

I am glad that exclusive votes will still be included, but separated.   This way they don't skew the results, but at the same time it will be possible to see where exclusive incomes are on the scale.  I would hate to see exclusives excluded altogether, as their info is relevant to the overall picture.
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: Microstock Posts on February 17, 2012, 18:36
I just took the updated poll.  Very nice as is, IMO. 

I am glad that exclusive votes will still be included, but separated.   This way they don't skew the results, but at the same time it will be possible to see where exclusive incomes are on the scale.  I would hate to see exclusives excluded altogether, as their info is relevant to the overall picture.

Your constant reference to exclusivity in this forum makes us all suspicious. It's just a matter of time before you turn. ;)
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: lisafx on February 17, 2012, 19:01
Your constant reference to exclusivity in this forum makes us all suspicious. It's just a matter of time before you turn. ;)

Oh yeah.  You found me out.  What keen powers of observation ;D
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: heywoody on February 17, 2012, 19:36
It's very interesting how the relative positions of FT and 123 have changed as a result of the new poll ....
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: Microstock Posts on February 17, 2012, 19:38
Your constant reference to exclusivity in this forum makes us all suspicious. It's just a matter of time before you turn. ;)

Oh yeah.  You found me out.  What keen powers of observation ;D

I'll see your kitten and raise you my cat.
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: CD123 on February 17, 2012, 21:37
It's very interesting how the relative positions of FT and 123 have changed as a result of the new poll ....
Wonder how many people has changed their income amount from the original vote for 123RF.... ;D
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: leaf on February 18, 2012, 03:46
It's very interesting how the relative positions of FT and 123 have changed as a result of the new poll ....

Yeah, i think that pretty clearly shows what we know about FT.  They have images (and photographers) that sell very very well, and then they have images that they don't promote that don't sell at all.  It is either all or nothing on Fotolia.  So now that there is higher earnings brackets, the people who are earnings lots are making a bigger difference in the results.
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: leaf on February 18, 2012, 03:48
If what the poll does is simple avereges then the results will be heavly skewed (as can be seen already) towards IS since all exclusives will give some positive (and motsly high number) for IS and a 0 for the rest.

They should give 'no vote' for the rest - which isn't included in the results.  A 0 vote is different than a 'no vote' vote.  and yeah, i'm working at sorting out the exclusives.

You might want to add higher numbers than $2.5k... for the exclusive option at least.

Yeah, perhaps I should add one more level for everyone.  I realize there are a lot of people making more than $2500/month on the top sites.   The reason I have it currently limited to $2500 is so that the spammers will have less effect.
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: Microstock Man on February 19, 2012, 17:10
Seriously, BigStock is above Depositphotos, Photodune, Veer!!??

This blows me away. Can this really be true?
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: michealo on February 20, 2012, 10:11
If what the poll does is simple avereges then the results will be heavly skewed (as can be seen already) towards IS since all exclusives will give some positive (and motsly high number) for IS and a 0 for the rest.

They should give 'no vote' for the rest - which isn't included in the results.  A 0 vote is different than a 'no vote' vote.  and yeah, i'm working at sorting out the exclusives.

You might want to add higher numbers than $2.5k... for the exclusive option at least.

Yeah, perhaps I should add one more level for everyone.  I realize there are a lot of people making more than $2500/month on the top sites.   The reason I have it currently limited to $2500 is so that the spammers will have less effect.


Could you hide the poll page from users with less than a certain amount of posts (say 50)?

I should clarify and say the poll input page
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: lagereek on February 20, 2012, 11:08
It's very interesting how the relative positions of FT and 123 have changed as a result of the new poll ....

Yeah, i think that pretty clearly shows what we know about FT.  They have images (and photographers) that sell very very well, and then they have images that they don't promote that don't sell at all.  It is either all or nothing on Fotolia.  So now that there is higher earnings brackets, the people who are earnings lots are making a bigger difference in the results.

I am not surprised at all,  FT, is selling very, very well and really, 123, was only up there because some left FT and plenty got fooled and joined 123.
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: steheap on February 20, 2012, 11:18
This is looking good - a lot more informative than the old system.

My results mirror these reasonably well, although iSignstock is up among the middle tier for me. Is it not showing because of a lack of poll responses so far? It would be interesting to see what would happen if you lowered the threshold below 50 votes for this first month.

Steve
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: luissantos84 on February 20, 2012, 11:25
Seriously, BigStock is above Depositphotos, Photodune, Veer!!??

This blows me away. Can this really be true?

I believe some old contributors like over 4 years do quite well there, at least from some reports here at MSG
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: lagereek on February 20, 2012, 12:03
DP, is great, Bigstock thanks to the bridge is also great. Without the bridge however you might just drown.
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: leaf on February 20, 2012, 12:33
DP, is great, Bigstock thanks to the bridge is also great. Without the bridge however you might just drown.

DepositPhotos is better for me than Bigstock, but really, 12.7 and 11.8 where they both currently sit are pretty close.
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: leaf on February 20, 2012, 12:35
This is looking good - a lot more informative than the old system.

My results mirror these reasonably well, although iSignstock is up among the middle tier for me. Is it not showing because of a lack of poll responses so far? It would be interesting to see what would happen if you lowered the threshold below 50 votes for this first month.

Steve

Yeah, Pond5 is really quite high, but they only accept video so far.  A few of the vector sites are also quite high but only have a few voters.
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: LesHoward on February 20, 2012, 13:14
Could you hide the poll page from users with less than a certain amount of posts (say 50)?

I should clarify and say the poll input page

I can understand your reasoning behind that but I disagree. I read this forum nearly every day but, according to my stats, I only post about once every 9 days. This is my 40th post since March 1 2011 (357 days). I don't usually post unless I have something to add to the conversation - something that hasn't already been said. I'm sure there are many others like me.
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: leaf on February 20, 2012, 13:26
Could you hide the poll page from users with less than a certain amount of posts (say 50)?

I should clarify and say the poll input page

I can understand your reasoning behind that but I disagree. I read this forum nearly every day but, according to my stats, I only post about once every 9 days. This is my 40th post since March 1 2011 (357 days). I don't usually post unless I have something to add to the conversation - something that hasn't already been said. I'm sure there are many others like me.

yeah, i think there a lot of people like you, the majority I would say.
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: luissantos84 on February 20, 2012, 14:27
Could you hide the poll page from users with less than a certain amount of posts (say 50)?

I should clarify and say the poll input page

I can understand your reasoning behind that but I disagree. I read this forum nearly every day but, according to my stats, I only post about once every 9 days. This is my 40th post since March 1 2011 (357 days). I don't usually post unless I have something to add to the conversation - something that hasn't already been said. I'm sure there are many others like me.

yeah, i think there a lot of people like you, the majority I would say.

some not even logged in too :D
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: Microstock Man on February 20, 2012, 17:22
Quote
Quote from: lagereek on Today at 12:03
DP, is great, Bigstock thanks to the bridge is also great. Without the bridge however you might just drown.

DepositPhotos is better for me than Bigstock, but really, 12.7 and 11.8 where they both currently sit are pretty close.

Wow, that still amazes me. I have a slightly larger port at BigStock than I do at SS (only just), but BS is lucky to earn me a few bucks a month! It's probably in my bottom 3 or 4 and has been since I joined them couple of years ago.

Its incredible really how different agencies suit different contributors work so significantly.
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: leaf on March 02, 2012, 07:32
things should still be working fine - let me know if you are having problems with the new system.  I'll get the arrows working again soon.
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: lisafx on March 02, 2012, 15:35
The new system is great, Tyler.  Looking forward to those arrows coming back too :)
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: traveler1116 on March 02, 2012, 15:45
Still no iStock exclusive, should we even vote?
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: Opla on March 02, 2012, 15:55
Still no iStock exclusive, should we even vote?
No use, is there?
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: leaf on March 02, 2012, 16:37
Still no iStock exclusive, should we even vote?

I have the istock exclusives automatically sorted out, so just give iStock your vote and the poll will take care of the rest.  Obviously there is no comparison because iStock exclusives are alone, but it might be interesting for up and down month comparisons.. I'll display the different results when I figure out the best way to do so (probably when I added the arrows again)
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: Microstock Posts on March 03, 2012, 04:02
The new system seems good. I wasn't a big fan of the old system, as some agencies appeared more lucrative than they are. This I think, more accurately represents the earning potentials at agencies. Of course it's still dependent on everyone answering accurately, but so are all polls. Cheers.
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: RacePhoto on March 03, 2012, 17:05
Still no iStock exclusive, should we even vote?

I have the istock exclusives automatically sorted out, so just give iStock your vote and the poll will take care of the rest.  Obviously there is no comparison because iStock exclusives are alone, but it might be interesting for up and down month comparisons.. I'll display the different results when I figure out the best way to do so (probably when I added the arrows again)

Nice, it does make a difference more than anywhere else where they may be exclusives or exclusive images.

Once the exclusives get separated from the rest of the herd, it's going to be interesting to see how much Indys make on IS compared to the next few.
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: wordplanet on April 05, 2012, 15:13
Hi:
I know I'm getting in on this conversation late - I couldn't vote in March but thought it was because I was busy and didn't try to get on here and vote until around the 8th.
The new percentage explanation is helpful. If I'm only going to make 5 or 10% of what I make on SS, then for me it's not worth the time until I have a much larger portfolio.
I was surprised to see fotolia ahead of dreamstime too.

I only have 34 photos on iStock, but realized that my return per photo has increased there (I'm also getting everything I upload there accepted these days - whereas after probably about a year of no rejections on shutterstock my acceptance rate has plummeted - too bad, I got a raise there a while ago and hit 900 downloads on April 1 - pretty decent with 120 files, but I'd like to have 1000 files there). I decided to keep uploading to IS because of its rank here, and it outperformed dreamstime for me in March, which was a BME for me across several sites, so thanks for that. April took a dive from March, though personal sales were up.

It would be great to include Alamy too. Just be sure people realize they should include their net gain and not the gross amount as that will certainly skew things. I think of Alamy as a sometimes full-priced site (I have months where I make a few $10 or less sales there, for a lower return than @ the micros, and other months where photos are licensed for over $200 each, netting me a nice sum per image), so I think it would be instructive to see how this alternatingly high/low earning site averages out for people.

I make sales from my own site too, but they are definitely not micro, so I'm not sure that a button for that makes sense. Just MHO.

It would really be helpful if we could vote according to our return per image ( $ earned #of photos online ) and I'd be happy to type in the exact amount rather than hit the radio buttons. For those small fry like me who might make only $41 one month at a certain site, I know I'd rather put in the actual amount than put in $25. I restrain myself but the temptation is there to click on $50 instead. Is there a way to set up two columns per site - $ earned and # photos online?

Also think it's a great idea to remove iStock exclusive to a separate column, so it doesn't skew results and also that someone in a position to go exclusive with them can gauge whether it's worth giving up income from the other sites.

Anyhow, thanks for all your hard work on this.
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: cascoly on April 05, 2012, 17:40
i'd stopped paying attention to the poll, so missed the changes announced -- the new system makes a lot more sense and reflects a truer result; also like the ability to distinguish between $0 earnings and no vote
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: Microbius on April 06, 2012, 01:09
For those who contribute to IStock. How does anyone fill this in so early in the month when we haven't had Thinkstock earnings yet so can't report IS accurately? I started filling it  in and abandoned it when I realized.
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: monti on August 09, 2012, 08:22
So when the new version of promised poll is going to be displayed? ... I wonder
Would love to see the statistics... :)
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: RacePhoto on August 09, 2012, 19:54
For those who contribute to IStock. How does anyone fill this in so early in the month when we haven't had Thinkstock earnings yet so can't report IS accurately? I started filling it  in and abandoned it when I realized.

I've asked the same question and it appears they use last month ThinkStock for this month or something voodoo? I'm a bit thick about how to answer a poll on the 6th when I don't get the numbers until the 15th. Maybe they know a good psychic?  :D

I've pretty much stopped taking the poll. That should be good for raising the numbers for all the sites. LOL
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: traveler1116 on August 09, 2012, 20:03
I've stopped as well, no point as an exclusive.
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: Microbius on August 10, 2012, 08:04
For those who contribute to IStock. How does anyone fill this in so early in the month when we haven't had Thinkstock earnings yet so can't report IS accurately? I started filling it  in and abandoned it when I realized.

I've asked the same question and it appears they use last month ThinkStock for this month or something voodoo? I'm a bit thick about how to answer a poll on the 6th when I don't get the numbers until the 15th. Maybe they know a good psychic?  :D

I've pretty much stopped taking the poll. That should be good for raising the numbers for all the sites. LOL
Nice to know I'm not the only one that was confused!
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: leaf on August 10, 2012, 11:22
I haven't forgotten about the stats.. just delayed.  it's coming.. it's coming.. I promise.

About voting - you can time your vote how you please but for me, this is how I do it.

When submitting a vote for, say iStock, i just look at how much money was in my account at the end of the month and use that amount... regardless of which month the images were actually sold in - so yes, technically for my July numbers, I was using the June thinkstock earnings, but as far as I'm concerned, since my June thinkstock earnings were put in my account in July, I made that money in July.  I think complicating the matter further is just picking at straws.
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: RacePhoto on August 15, 2012, 00:12
I haven't forgotten about the stats.. just delayed.  it's coming.. it's coming.. I promise.

About voting - you can time your vote how you please but for me, this is how I do it.

When submitting a vote for, say iStock, i just look at how much money was in my account at the end of the month and use that amount... regardless of which month the images were actually sold in - so yes, technically for my July numbers, I was using the June thinkstock earnings, but as far as I'm concerned, since my June thinkstock earnings were put in my account in July, I made that money in July.  I think complicating the matter further is just picking at straws.

Good way of viewing it. Money earned in the past month with the carry-over, being current as you view it, is pretty simple. Just earnings for the previous month, regardless of when they sold, why or how they got there. That IS easy!
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: ShadySue on August 15, 2012, 05:08
I've stopped as well, no point as an exclusive.
I don't think exclusives *can* vote? I can't find any way to.
Seriously, isn't the rise or fall of exclusives interesting, at least to other exclusives? We can't all post on the iStock monthly thread.
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: leaf on August 15, 2012, 08:50
I've stopped as well, no point as an exclusive.
I don't think exclusives *can* vote? I can't find any way to.
Seriously, isn't the rise or fall of exclusives interesting, at least to other exclusives? We can't all post on the iStock monthly thread.

If you just vote on one site, the poll will automatically figure that you are exlcusive
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: jm on August 25, 2012, 04:48
Wouldn't it be better to include Envato instead of both PhotoDune and Graphic River? I upload both photos and vectors and it's too time consuming to calculate the earnings for each site.
I enter all Envato earnings to PhotoDune and it drastically changes poll results.  :D
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: leaf on August 25, 2012, 04:55
Wouldn't it be better to include Envato instead of both PhotoDune and Graphic River? I upload both photos and vectors and it's too time consuming to calculate the earnings for each site.
I enter all Envato earnings to PhotoDune and it drastically changes poll results.  :D

Yeah, perhaps it would be.  Your earnings are all together when you visit either photodune or graphicriver?
Title: Re: Monthly income poll updated and fixed *vote now*
Post by: jm on August 25, 2012, 05:00
Wouldn't it be better to include Envato instead of both PhotoDune and Graphic River? I upload both photos and vectors and it's too time consuming to calculate the earnings for each site.
I enter all Envato earnings to PhotoDune and it drastically changes poll results.  :D

Yeah, perhaps it would be.  Your earnings are all together when you visit either photodune or graphicriver?

Yes, I can see same earning table no matter if I am logged in to GR or PD.