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Author Topic: RPI for all sites - cast your votes  (Read 8747 times)

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« on: June 13, 2008, 07:16 »
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Well thanks to DanP for getting the ball rolling on this. 

RPI stands for 'Return per Image' and is a monthly calculation

There seemed to be a lot of interested for having a RPI sort of rating for the various stock sites.  It works to have polls in threads, but it doesn't work very well to try and compare things over time and have a nice overview of all the sites.

I have now implemented a RPI tool on the site, you will find it to the lower right.  Same as the other polls, you can enter your numbers once per month.   Hopefully this will give us a good idea of which sites give us the best return per image and how things change over time.

If you don't know how to calculate a Return Per Image value it is

Monthly earnings / Images Online

So if I have 1000 images online and earned $1000 from shutterstock in may..
my may RPI for shutterstock would be
$1000 / 1000 Images = 1

If i had 2500 images and earned $500
$500 / 2500 images = .20

An RPI # is generally somewhere between 0 and 2
If you have a VERY productive portfolio you might have an RPI above 2
« Last Edit: June 13, 2008, 07:45 by leaf »


« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2008, 18:38 »
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Just to make this clear:  along all this month, we're supposed to enter May numbers, right?  I found it a bit confuding because of the "This month" column title.

Regards,
Adelaide

« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2008, 18:47 »
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Just to make this clear:  along all this month, we're supposed to enter May numbers, right?  I found it a bit confuding because of the "This month" column title.

Regards,
Adelaide

yeah, may numbers.  Perhaps i should have it say 'prev month' ....

It is changed now.

And yes, i know i am missing some icons.  I will get that fixed when i get back from malta.  I mostly wanted to at least get the voting working before I left.  The stats are being recorded properly, so I will fine tunes things about displaying the results in a week.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2008, 18:49 by leaf »

« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2008, 00:19 »
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Is it possible to remove the rpi casting form (e.g. move it to special page, like poll results)? Or at least fix it? It eats half of low-res screen (Firefox 2).

P.S. Do not worry, casting vote hides the form, so it is not as annoying. But fixing is probably still a good idea ^)
« Last Edit: July 01, 2008, 00:26 by UncleGene »

DanP68

« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2008, 01:13 »
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Can we cast votes for June yet?

« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2008, 01:19 »
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yeah you should be able too.  Are you not able to vote?

DanP68

« Reply #6 on: July 01, 2008, 01:32 »
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I hadn't tried yet.  Just wanted to be sure.   :)

« Reply #7 on: July 01, 2008, 16:24 »
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P.S. Do not worry, casting vote hides the form, so it is not as annoying. But fixing is probably still a good idea ^)

That explains it.  I haven't voted yet, not even last month (RPI is not something I calculate automatically in my spreadsheet), so I have that large column eating my screen.

Regards,
Adelaide

CofkoCof

« Reply #8 on: July 01, 2008, 16:28 »
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I voted, then results came up, but when I came to site again the column appeared again.

« Reply #9 on: July 01, 2008, 17:13 »
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I voted, then results came up, but when I came to site again the column appeared again.

was your vote last month or this month?  you can vote once / month

« Reply #10 on: July 01, 2008, 17:13 »
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P.S. Do not worry, casting vote hides the form, so it is not as annoying. But fixing is probably still a good idea ^)

That explains it.  I haven't voted yet, not even last month (RPI is not something I calculate automatically in my spreadsheet), so I have that large column eating my screen.

Regards,
Adelaide

ok, i'll see if i can fix that tommorow

« Reply #11 on: July 01, 2008, 17:32 »
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P.S. Do not worry, casting vote hides the form, so it is not as annoying. But fixing is probably still a good idea ^)

That explains it.  I haven't voted yet, not even last month (RPI is not something I calculate automatically in my spreadsheet), so I have that large column eating my screen.

Regards,
Adelaide

is that any better?

« Reply #12 on: July 01, 2008, 18:56 »
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So where do you enter the RPI. I can't find it. ???

CofkoCof

« Reply #13 on: July 01, 2008, 19:45 »
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I voted, then results came up, but when I came to site again the column appeared again.

was your vote last month or this month?  you can vote once / month
It was this month. Now the results are showing again, did you change something? :D

« Reply #14 on: July 01, 2008, 20:06 »
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is that any better?
Yes, but... now how can one vote?

Regards,
Adelaide

« Reply #15 on: July 02, 2008, 00:44 »
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is that any better?
Yes, but... now how can one vote?

Regards,
Adelaide

sorry, i think it should be fixed now.

DanP68

« Reply #16 on: July 02, 2008, 02:58 »
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Good job Leaf.  I really like the RPI stats.  Now that a lot of people have voted, the 30d numbers look very reasonable and I think they tell a better story than the ratings.  Great idea adding in the up/down change, and the 90d moving average. 

Cross referencing RPI changes with site analytics might be very interesting.

« Reply #17 on: July 02, 2008, 20:34 »
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RPI - I just don't get it.   I mean ... I'm not stupid, I understand what it means.  But it's sort of "the useless stat" of all stats.  What do people look for in RPI that makes it useful at all?

« Reply #18 on: July 03, 2008, 00:55 »
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it tells you how profitable a site its.  How much a site is giving you for each image each month.  A quite valuable number for comparing sites to eachother.

Of course you can just look at the total amount you receive from each site, but that doesn't take into account how many images you have online.  If site A gives $100 each month and you only have 100 images there (RPI OF $1.00), and site B gives $500/month and you have 5000 images there (RPI of $.10), if you only look at the total you would be tempted to spend more time at site B when in actuality you should spend more time on site A.


« Reply #19 on: July 03, 2008, 01:24 »
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There is a flaw in this logic.  Profitability is related to RPS(ubmitted)I, not RPA(ccepted)I.

If site A accepts 1 of 100 and gives you $5, and site B accepts 100 of 100 and gives you $20 - which one is more profitable? :)


« Reply #20 on: July 03, 2008, 01:42 »
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I thought the same as UncleGene. All of the stock sites that I do my calcualtions for, have been offered all of my images. The fact that they refused some of them is relevant and affects the profit returned from that site. My spreadsheets calculate on total images offered, which is why I have not entered my figures.

« Reply #21 on: July 03, 2008, 01:51 »
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There is a flaw in this logic.  Profitability is related to RPS(ubmitted)I, not RPA(ccepted)I.

If site A accepts 1 of 100 and gives you $5, and site B accepts 100 of 100 and gives you $20 - which one is more profitable? :)



well that is a valid point but RPI (RPSI or RPAI) is still usefull for comparing one photographers earnings to another.  Instead of talking about how many $$ we earn each month we can make our numbers standard and talk about how the RPI.  I think calculating the return per submitted image would be the most accurate method.

« Reply #22 on: July 03, 2008, 02:17 »
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As your and the agency's collection grows, older stuff gets pushed aside and newer stuff makes the majority of your income. RPI would have more value if you only counted your top 200 images every month. Then youd at least have a measurable stat.

By measuring your lowest images as well, youre saying well, I made 10 cents per image this month and 11 cents last month so my RPI is down - so? Last month you had 650 images and made $71.50 This month you had 900 images and made $90. Your RPI is down but income is up and those new images seemed to help increase your income $28.50 or 11.4 cents per image. Basically, the older images hold you down as their usefulness fades over time.  RPI is a stat that *should* most of the time go down. 

Also, if you have one super fantastic image and 10 nothing images vs a folio of 1000 super fantastic images and 10000 nothings, it's the same RPI.  I guess I'll just continue to not get it. lol

DanP68

« Reply #23 on: July 03, 2008, 02:32 »
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We could consider changing the poll to raw earnings, rather than earnings per image.  Originally I had thought people would not want to disclose this information, even anonymously. 

However I notice a lot of people vote in the "Overall Earnings" poll.  So I suppose at least an equal amount of people would disclose their earnings per agency.

This would satisfy Mantonino's concerns, although really he should spend more time assessing the Syracuse Orange 2008 recruiting class at this late hour.   ;D 

The problem I see is that the votes would be muddied by some people having 2000+ images at one agency, but only a few hundred at another.  It doesn't make for a fair comparison of earnings power.  Personally I think RPI has the least amount of problems associated with it and provides valuable information.

DanP68

« Reply #24 on: July 03, 2008, 02:41 »
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Another point I want to make on RPI...

Use the information as it was intended to be used for.  It is for comparing earnings power per agency, not necessarily tracking your own growth.  As Mantonino correctly points out, older images dying off should cause one's RPI to move lower over time all things being equal. 

Looking to the right, I can make an educated decision about whether or not contributing to a certain agency is worth my while.  According to our voters, 123RF currently has 8x the earnings power of Snapvillage.  While mileage will vary for each contributor, this is pretty important information.  I find 123RF to be more than worth my while.  But 1/8 their earnings would not interest me, so for now I hold off. 

If I didn't currently contribute to StockXpert and noticed I could earn at least 2x my 123RF earnings if I did, it would get me interested in a hurry.

Most importantly it cuts through the noise.  Every board has a few posters who post early sales at new/small microstock sites.  Heck we even have a few people saying they have sales at Yaymicro, which barely registers on Alexa.  But once you sample a lot of people, the true earnings power of each site begins to emerge while the message board hype fades.  Call me a wacko, but I like it.

« Reply #25 on: July 03, 2008, 02:49 »
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i think you make a good point when you say the poll is NOT to track portfolio strength, but rather to give an idea as to how the sites compare to each other.

« Reply #26 on: July 03, 2008, 10:37 »
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This is amazing how everybody give unquestionable reasons and come to different conclusions :)
IMHO RPI shows exactly portfolio strength, not site one, and averaging gives just a temperature near north pole :)

I see only one more or less reliable metrics: RP_S_I grouped by portfolio size (for mitigation of size/profitability dependency)

In both cases bucketing may be sufficient to give a picture (e.g. <=25, 100, 500, 1500, >5000   

E.g. if I send to SuperDuperStock 600 images, get accepted 150, and sold for $60,
my RPSI of $0.1 will go to <=500 bucket

« Reply #27 on: July 03, 2008, 13:14 »
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Good grief, I'm sorry. I voted on right hand side poll for first time, and once I put my numbers in, and saw the results, it was obvious I totally messed  up.

My Shutterstock RPI ended up looking lower than it really was, and other sites ended up with RPI's better than they should.

BTW, I misunderstood on two levels. Until I reread Leaf's original post up above, I thought RPI meant number of DL's per image, not number of Dollars per image (which, of course, makes more sense).  :-[ :-[ :-[

If one member's voting effects the poll in any significant way, it would be great if my June vote could be wiped out.  ann
« Last Edit: July 03, 2008, 13:20 by ann »

« Reply #28 on: July 03, 2008, 13:24 »
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you can just vote correctly next month.  It is just to give a general idea so it won't make TOO much of a differance and depending on what your values were, if they were TOTALLY bogus they would be discounted anyhow.

« Reply #29 on: July 22, 2008, 13:58 »
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you can just vote correctly next month.  It is just to give a general idea so it won't make TOO much of a differance and depending on what your values were, if they were TOTALLY bogus they would be discounted anyhow.

Thanks! (The highest wrong number was 10, so I don't know if bogus-radar caught it.)

« Reply #30 on: August 11, 2008, 07:23 »
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What about sites, such as Yay and MostPhoto? Should we convert to $ before calculating RPI. If not, the results for sites will be lower than they really are!


 

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