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Microstock Photography Forum - General => Software => Software - General => Topic started by: dnavarrojr on October 22, 2009, 16:15
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I ran the RC for Windows 7 very briefly after it first came out, but I had a hardware issue that caused me to go back to Vista. However, I've since upgraded my hardware and decided to jump on the bandwagon and buy Windows 7 this morning.
I did a clean install of Windows 7 Pro 64-bit and so far I'm impressed. It has no problems with my two 1.5TB hard drives or my 16 gigs of RAM. And it boots up almost twice as fast as Vista did. I am still re-installing all of my apps, but MS Word 2003, PhotoShop CS4 and AE CS4 all launch faster in Windows 7 than they did in Vista.
Since I mostly deal with footage, the biggest surprise was that the native AVCHD files (.mts and .m2ts) from my camera are now supported in the OS and they play without stutter in Windows Media Player. THAT more than anything was worth the upgrade for me. It will improve my video editing workflow significantly.
I use the Home Edition of AVAST! Antivirus and it's not playing nice with Windows 7. It works, but Windows is bugging me that it's not up to date, even though it is. But all of my other apps seem to work just fine.
Installing apps is not as obnoxious as it was in Vista. But they spread all of the customizable features for the desktop theme across 3 different control panels. So it was a PITA to change colors, turn off animated windows, etc.
So far I'm liking the Windows 7 upgrade.
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You know, MS doesn't offer upgrades for OS here. They say the Brazilian customers prefer to buy a new PC with a new OS. I think they are just sick of people using pirate copies, so they simply charge an absurd price for those hwo buy the legal package. :-\
OEM OS isn't however very expensive, but I won't pay over US$200 (Home edition) for a new OS that I don't need right now.
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For my software work I'd need the "Professional" version and at $199 for an upgrade, I have absolutely zero interest. They are not going to sell many upgrades at these prices. And I don't think they intend to. The outrageous upgrade price is supposed to herd you towards buying a new PC that you don't actually need.
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Fortunately, I'm taking some classes at the local community college, so I qualify for their $30 upgrade to Windows 7 Pro. Otherwise, I would not have upgraded now. I would have waited until my next round of microstock payments next month and bought the $109 OEM upgrade.
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I also use Win7 since its Beta Test phase. It works great. (after Vista nothing can be worse). I have 4 GB of RAM and the 64-bit version, that's good for photography, even if I'd wish more memory sometimes.....
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I'll stick with Linux
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Just installed it today and so far it works great. Had a minor issue with some old drivers, but that's the only thing that didn't work out of the box. Tweeking the settings atm :D
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I upgraded to Win XP after my laptop (Vista preinstalled) went out of its warranty period. I didn't know my laptop could be that fast.
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I bought 2 copies of home premium for US$50 about 1/2 year ago when MS had a special. Cant wait to get the components for a new build.
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Maybe after Christmas, when reality sets in, they'll cut the upgrade prices.
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I'm still an XP user too, but I plan on upgrading very soon. I am going to need something with at least 8-12 gb of ram and i7 Quad Core though, to handle all of this new OS software.
Being able to skip Vista ... priceless ;)
I also skipped Windows 95, Windows Me - so happy about not having to deal with those. It seems like every other OS for Windows is a good one. Windows XP/2000 are pretty stable, Win98 was decent, Win 3.11 was okay.
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I will be a happy day when I get rid of Vista on my laptop. :)
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I think I'll give it a while. I have a PC running XP that is just fine, but my newest machine is Vista and is slower despite being higher spec. So if the hype for Windows 7 turns out to be well founded, I might just go for it. Might wairt for the first SP though. You can't be too careful.
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I bought a new desktop PC yesterday with Windows 7 and so far it's playing quite nicely with my main programs (Lightroom 1.4, Corel PSP12, Dynamic HDR4, AVG9.0 anti-virus). Boot-up is blazingly fast but then I also have a 1.8gb Video Card and 12gigs of RAM. My previous pc had Vista but I ditched it and went with XP home. So far so good!
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I'm still an XP user too, but I plan on upgrading very soon. I am going to need something with at least 8-12 gb of ram and i7 Quad Core though, to handle all of this new OS software.
Being able to skip Vista ... priceless ;)
I also skipped Windows 95, Windows Me - so happy about not having to deal with those. It seems like every other OS for Windows is a good one. Windows XP/2000 are pretty stable, Win98 was decent, Win 3.11 was okay.
If you're saying that you think you will need eight to twelve gigabytes of RAM to run Windows 7, then you're mistaken. Four gigabytes is plenty. At least for the home version. I don't know about the professional or ultimate version. So on second thought, maybe you're not mistaken. :)
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I bought a new desktop PC yesterday with Windows 7 and so far it's playing quite nicely with my main programs (Lightroom 1.4, Corel PSP12, Dynamic HDR4, AVG9.0 anti-virus). Boot-up is blazingly fast but then I also have a 1.8gb Video Card and 12gigs of RAM. My previous pc had Vista but I ditched it and went with XP home. So far so good!
If you don't mind saying, which PC did you get? I just ordered an HP e9280t. Hopefully it will be as fast as promised. Unfortunately they won't allow you to order it with an upgraded power supply and/or larger fan. I am hoping the power supply and fan supplied are adequate to keep it running cool. If not, I may upgrade them myself, but I don't want to void the warranty.
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I also use Windows 7 since it's beta, so far so good. It is stable, the user interface is way better (I'm not talking about aero). Finally they did some major changes to their color system and it is way easier to calibrate monitors comparing to XP. Monitor calibration on Windows 7 (http://7fttallrussian.blogspot.com/2009/10/monitor-calibration-on-windows-7.html)
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Thank you tall Russian, we have been on W7 Ultimate for some days now, and are loving it - however did not know about the new calibration options. Very interesting.
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Lisa,
I got a gateway FX desktop with the Intel I7 core. Im AFK till tomorrow aft but I prefer gateway or other more generic PC's over HP sine HP's dont like hardware being added all that much. Ive found with HPs that once I start upgrading RAM, graphic cards or adding a hard drive, they tend to crash.
My gateway also has two eSATA hard drive bays in the front, so I can add two extra drives(I already added a 1tb drive). I can get you the model number once I get back home if you like.
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I'm still an XP user too, but I plan on upgrading very soon. I am going to need something with at least 8-12 gb of ram and i7 Quad Core though, to handle all of this new OS software.
Being able to skip Vista ... priceless ;)
I also skipped Windows 95, Windows Me - so happy about not having to deal with those. It seems like every other OS for Windows is a good one. Windows XP/2000 are pretty stable, Win98 was decent, Win 3.11 was okay.
If you're saying that you think you will need eight to twelve gigabytes of RAM to run Windows 7, then you're mistaken. Four gigabytes is plenty. At least for the home version. I don't know about the professional or ultimate version. So on second thought, maybe you're not mistaken. :)
No, I heard that too - 4 is all you ened, but what about when you're rendering stuff or doing labor intensive processes in Photoshop or other programs? What if you want to multi-task like the dickens? A PC will never match a MAC's abilities in that area, but the extra ram will definitely help. I'm running on a 7 year old Pentium 4 pc with 1.5 gb of ram right now...the way I like to buy PC's is to buy a little more than what I need at the time, and that way it lasts me a while. I need to be sure that my own machine isn't stifling my production abilities. I'm a one man show, so if I can get a faster PC, no doubt it will improve my editing speed a little bit. Less time waiting and more time doing :)
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Thats why I went with a higher end PC; I shouldnt have to upgrade for a few years now. Plus there was also the fact that the sales associate goofed on the price and I ended up getting 400.00 off, so it was meant to be.
Im also running a 23" monitor with 1920x1080 true HD resolution, so the extra goodies I got Im sure will help keep everything running nicely. Definitely a nice upgrade from my older 19" 4/3 aspect ratio monitor.
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The newer iMac 27" with the i5 is pretty sweet too, for around $1800-1900 if I remember correctly. I recently picked up a 24" Dell widescreen, so all I really need is a new machine. The apple monitors are way higher end than any monitor you'll find in bestbuy or staples, though. I'm happy enough with the quality of mine, you'd have to have them side by side with the same images to compare the minor differences.
It's tempting to switch over...comparing macs to pc's is like trying to compare apples and oranges. I've used them for years in the design world. Macs just multi-task way better than pc's, the architecture is entirely different. I haven't testing multi-tasking while running Windows on a Mac, to see if was any better than a comparably equipped PC. Comparing processor to processor, ram to ram, video card to video card with mac vs pc, mac is always going to win in performance, for the line of work we're doing. But if you want to be easier on your wallet and can don't need to have 10-20 applications running at once, at all times, just save your money and go PC. The whole "macs dont get viruses" argument is true, but that's not really an issue when you know what you're doing on a PC. Also if you go with a mac you'll also have to pick up a copy of Windows XP or 7, then you'll have the best of both worlds.
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The newer iMac 27" with the i5 is pretty sweet too, for around $1800-1900 if I remember correctly. I recently picked up a 24" Dell widescreen, so all I really need is a new machine. The apple monitors are way higher end than any monitor you'll find in bestbuy or staples, though. I'm happy enough with the quality of mine, you'd have to have them side by side with the same images to compare the minor differences.
It's tempting to switch over...comparing macs to pc's is like trying to compare apples and oranges. I've used them for years in the design world. Macs just multi-task way better than pc's, the architecture is entirely different. I haven't testing multi-tasking while running Windows on a Mac, to see if was any better than a comparably equipped PC. Comparing processor to processor, ram to ram, video card to video card with mac vs pc, mac is always going to win in performance, for the line of work we're doing. But if you want to be easier on your wallet and can don't need to have 10-20 applications running at once, at all times, just save your money and go PC. The whole "macs dont get viruses" argument is true, but that's not really an issue when you know what you're doing on a PC. Also if you go with a mac you'll also have to pick up a copy of Windows XP or 7, then you'll have the best of both worlds.
apple fanboy much?
I don't care about the argument, but some of the stuff is completely untrue. Apple is now using Intel processors (and will be releasing Core i5 and i7 models soon) and similar architecture for the most part, so if there are differences, they could be minor or major, depending on programming of OS and many other factors. Macs do get viruses, and there was a big issue a while back regarding huge vulnerabilities that needed patching - I don't use macs and I'm not sure if the article I read was just hoopla, but it seemed to make a bit of news. Not to mention that Snow Leopard sucks, as I have an uncle who uses CS3 on it and none of the drivers work, CS4 won't work properly.
Not to mention that Adobe used to write their programs for Apple first, then patchwork their way to Windows which made many versions crappy, but now they do write them for both systems.
The lines are blurring and the prices Apple charges for their machines is insane, especially when their newest OS doesn't work with anything.
Hi Vista, I'm a Mac. I suck just as much as you did.
Its based on preferences -
and if you want amazing monitors, I believe that LaCie is among the best
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I have to agree. I think both systems work fine (used both, also daily using ubuntu), macs look much nicer than average PC (still you can find some insanly beautiful pc racks or laptops) and it has a status symbol (well at least you don't pay the marketing for nothing). PC is better price/performice wise especially if you can get all Microsoft products for free (all legal, don't understand me wrong) :D The difference in price might not be so big in USA, but here it's drastic. The possibility of hardware customization is also a big bonus of PC (however it problably shows in a bit slower OS because it has to be more generic). The only thing I really do miss on PC from mac is the ultra fast sleep mode.
Windows 7 are working great, they are really fast. I compared stuff like rendering, copying files, photoshop actions (also done the retouchartists speed test and compared it to the result I got on XP), opening programs and it's up to 30% faster than XP. And 2Gb is enough, I'm using it on my 2Gb laptop with no problem at all.
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Just installed windows 7 and I don't seem to be able to move files around in a folder. They are all kept in order, with vista, I could drag files around and put them in the order I preferred. Is there a way to do it?
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I have tried W7 on my wife's laptop and these are the bad:
- explorer doesn't show the amount of free space on the selected hard drive in the status bar
- systray icons look rubbish
- standard start menu is gone with the wind and the replacement is cr@p
- is not faster (not noticeably anyway) than Vista
well..... there are many bad things in fact, I'm just too lazy to type them down. Conclusion? Thanks, but no thanks.
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Lisa,
I got a gateway FX desktop with the Intel I7 core. Im AFK till tomorrow aft but I prefer gateway or other more generic PC's over HP sine HP's dont like hardware being added all that much. Ive found with HPs that once I start upgrading RAM, graphic cards or adding a hard drive, they tend to crash.
My gateway also has two eSATA hard drive bays in the front, so I can add two extra drives(I already added a 1tb drive). I can get you the model number once I get back home if you like.
Thanks Eppic. :) Don't know how I missed your reply somehow.
I ended up getting the HP after doing some research. It has arrived and is having to wait for Saturday for me to get it all hooked up and start playing with it.
My current PC has been pausing to think too much and slow as molasses for the past few weeks in spite of defragging and daily registry cleanings and removals of spyware. I guess that's it's way of telling me I was right the spend the money on an upgrade ;)
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I was thinking of upgrading but I really have no problems with Vista. So I suppose I'll just spare myself the hassle and stick with it. ;)
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I've been using Windows 7 since February (beta version). It was working better (much) than Windows Vista already. That's how much of an improvement it is. I then tried the Release candidate and it worked well but was slowed down by the upgrade process (I should have done a clean install).
I recently installed the final version and it's just spiffy and great. Finally worth the upgrade. And the software are finally becoming windows 7 compatible. I had a beta version of Kaspersky for a while and there were some quirks. The new one runs smoothly.
Sharpshot: Your issue sounds strange. What folders cause you this problem?
Hugo
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I ended up getting the HP after doing some research. It has arrived and is having to wait for Saturday for me to get it all hooked up and start playing with it.
HP's are OK as long as you don't start adding hardware or making hardware upgrades. I've found if I start adding internal hard drives or adding RAM, upgrading the graphic card etc they tend to crash; maybe too much proprietary stuff in HP's that doesn't like to play with other stuff. That's one reason I went with Gateway this time around (more generic internals).
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..Sharpshot: Your issue sounds strange. What folders cause you this problem?
Every folder, I can't move any file around in any folder. I can move them around on the desktop but that is it. I have see someone else mention this in a forum but there weren't many replies, so perhaps it is a glitch on my computer.
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Isn´t right-click and change settings working in Win7 ?
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I recently installed the final version and it's just spiffy and great. Finally worth the upgrade. And the software are finally becoming windows 7 compatible. I had a beta version of Kaspersky for a while and there were some quirks. The new one runs smoothly.
Great to hear how well it is working for you Hugo :)
I had thought that software that ran on XP and/or Vista would also run on Windows 7. I have had no problems with Vista - I am only upgrading to get faster hardware. Will I have to upgrade my software too?
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You shouldnt have to upgrade your software Lisa; at least that's been my findings so far. I've upgraded some of the software installations to the 64 bit version where available, but so far everything that's worked for my on both XP and Vista has had no problems on Windows 7. Even some of my old Windows 95/98 games work on Windows 7, so backwards compatibility is far better than Vista ever was.
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Very good news! Thanks Eppic.
My husband will be thrilled! I think he still has a disk with Chip's Challenge on it somewhere that he's been dying to play again ;D
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I did some more research and windows 7 doesn't allow the order of files in a folder to be moved around with the mouse, like XP and Vista did, there are only auto-arrange options. I will have to change the way I work.
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I did some more research and windows 7 doesn't allow the order of files in a folder to be moved around with the mouse, like XP and Vista did, there are only auto-arrange options. I will have to change the way I work.
Wow, that's a PITA. There is no workaround? That will mess up some of my workflow too.
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I am quite happy with W7 64 bit after using it for a couple months.
sharpshot - I am not sure I understand what you mean. Are you talking about file sort order in Windows Explorer? You can easily change it by clicking on corresponding column title (Name, Size, Date, etc)
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^^^I can change the order using the list but I can't click and drag a file to make my own order, like I could in XP and Vista. There were lots of times I used that feature, now I will have to change.
There might be a way around it, using one of the free alternatives to explorer but I will see how much of a PITA it is first:-
http://www.computerpoweruser.com/editorial/article.asp?article=articles%2Farchive%2Fc0908%2F40c08%2F40c08.asp&articleid=56899&guid=06D3722DF4D44ECC83350DB47EC753A2&searchtype=0&WordList=FILE+EXPLORER&bJumpTo=True (http://www.computerpoweruser.com/editorial/article.asp?article=articles%2Farchive%2Fc0908%2F40c08%2F40c08.asp&articleid=56899&guid=06D3722DF4D44ECC83350DB47EC753A2&searchtype=0&WordList=FILE+EXPLORER&bJumpTo=True)
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ah I see... I never ever used that feature so I didn't notice it's gone :)
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The only problem I've been having with Windows 7 (64 bit - home version) is that Windows Explorer randomly crashes. It's no big deal; I just have to reset it, but it is annoying. And I'm not the only one with this problem. But overall, I give Windows 7 four out of five stars.
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I have dual drives, so I have done a clean install of W7 Home Premium 64 bits on the second drive while keeping Vista Home Premium 64 bits on the first, which, thereafter, the computer’s bios menu automatically gave me the choice on which OS to boot. I had a copy of Photoshop CS4 on both drives. This way, I could figure under which OS, Photoshop CS4 was the most performing with the same computer. To me the performance of my Wacom tablet under CS4 was the most important point in deciding which OS I was going to keep.
After flawlessly going through the initial W7 installation, getting all updates and installing Norton Antivirus, I let W7 decide which driver to install for all my hardware. W7 had Microsoft driver versions for all my components, nvidia 9800, Wacom tablet, Canon printer, ect.. After this was all done, at first, everything appeared to work good…however after trying CS4, I was not so sure anymore.
Under CS4, the Wacom tablet pen was very sluggish, very slow to respond and definitely much worst then CS4 under Vista. As well, panning and smooth zooming were no longer working as it did under Vista. Under CS4 preferences, the video card “open GL” option was greyed out and could not be activated as in Vista which is required for the panning and smooth zooming. I figured that the provided Microsoft nvidia driver was probably the culprit. From the nvidia website I got their own driver specifically for W7 64 bits. Bingo, “open GL” got activated and thereafter, panning and smooth zooming was back. But, the Wacom tablet pen was still very sluggish and slow to respond. Again, maybe the provided Microsoft Wacom driver was the culprit. From Wacom website I got the driver. This time, not Bingo, still sluggish and slow to respond. To me, if this problem could not be resolved , I was ditching W7 and keeping Vista. After spending all afternoon trying to figure this out without success, I re-uploaded the Wacom driver from the Wacom website and this time Bingo….it works. It went from worst then Vista to much better then Vista just because of a couple drivers.
To make a long story short. When changing OS, always try to get drivers from the original companies where your hardware are from before using the Microsoft ones. Everything is now much faster then Vista, from booting to shutting it down as well as much better performance with CS4 and the Wacom tablet pen which is a big plus for me. Denis
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Really extremely useful info about the drivers Denis. Thank you!
Just as an update, my HP Pavilion Elite arrived. I spent about 20 hours over three days trying to get it configured with my software, etc., and on support calls because the thing was so buggy.
It kept freezing up at random times, for no apparent reason, along with other strange things like the video card blinking off and then recovering, internet access one day and none the next, etc. Just a whole lot of issues.
Their support was just awful - their only solution was to keep having me do system recoveries, which of course wiped out 6 hours of work adding software and configuring the thing the way I wanted it.
Finally I returned it. Googling HP Pavilion Elite with the i7 processor it turns out that apparently they have faulty mother boards. There is a class action lawsuit filed about it. I am breathing a big sigh of relief that I sent it back rather than continuing to do system recoveries forever until the return period expired.
After some research I have ordered a Dell XPS 9000. It appears much better reviewed than the HP. Keeping my fingers crossed this will solve my speed problems. Hopefully I will be able to stand looking at the fugly red and white case... ;)
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So far windows 7 has been great but today my PC wouldn't shut down and I found the problem was a windows update KB976098 that wont install. I have tried to install it a few times and the same thing happens. Anyone else having a problem? System restore sorts it out and I switched to manual updates but I never had a problem like this with vista.
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My Commodore 64 is still running... ;D (under poor Mitjotoft Basic)
Eh why you dont install MAC OS on this cans and solve all you problems. I dont really dig out why Mitjotoft make Vista at all (money, money is the honey for DeBillGates and his dancing monkey Balmer to make it from thin air).
I dont know anything about this what they called 7 but from Mitjotoft I dont expect nothing what is dont seen before.
Allways will be some kind of vulnerable final beta + xx No's of essential service packs which will slow you can on speed slower than cans you have few years before.
Bah I am so boring with this MAC vs PiCi crap stuff.
Basic think is that works in background with no vunarebillity and give healthy surround for you primary applications from which you are living from without thinking what OS is doing or is it doing well and this was not the case in Mitjotoft OS.
I am not baby sitter at all for buggy OS...
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As usual, Suljo has added nothing remotely relevant or useful to the conversation. :P
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Really extremely useful info about the drivers Denis. Thank you!
Just as an update, my HP Pavilion Elite arrived. I spent about 20 hours over three days trying to get it configured with my software, etc., and on support calls because the thing was so buggy.
It kept freezing up at random times, for no apparent reason, along with other strange things like the video card blinking off and then recovering, internet access one day and none the next, etc. Just a whole lot of issues.
Their support was just awful - their only solution was to keep having me do system recoveries, which of course wiped out 6 hours of work adding software and configuring the thing the way I wanted it.
Finally I returned it. Googling HP Pavilion Elite with the i7 processor it turns out that apparently they have faulty mother boards. There is a class action lawsuit filed about it. I am breathing a big sigh of relief that I sent it back rather than continuing to do system recoveries forever until the return period expired.
After some research I have ordered a Dell XPS 9000. It appears much better reviewed than the HP. Keeping my fingers crossed this will solve my speed problems. Hopefully I will be able to stand looking at the fugly red and white case... ;)
Wow, that's crazy Lisa. Sorry you had to go through that. I have no faith in HP since the company merged with Compaq...their quality level dropped tremendously. We had a Compaq years ago and that thing was a piece of crapola. Some people have great success with HP, I have always just stuck to Dell. Never had any problems with them, other than a failed dvd drive (it was a Sony, so go figure)
Right now I'm waiting on a sweet bing.com cashback deal (it's currently 20% back) in combination with these black friday/cyber monday deals that are going on. It's rough, because not all of the video cards they offer are great either. The one thats really good is the +$180 add on, the nVidia GeForce GTX260 1792MB GDDR3. I was thinking just having a 1GB graphics card would be great for gaming and 3d video acceleration, such as the cheaper option (the GT 220) but it got horrible reviews online.
How much does Photoshop CS4 use the video card acceleration? I'm really not even sure a super high end graphics card is necessary. What do you guys think?
http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/gpu_list.php (http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/gpu_list.php) it's 10th on the list of benchmark performers
In the end I'm just trying to build a nice i7 machine with like 8gb of ram, and a 1TB hard drive that will serve me right for at least the next 3-4 years. The longer you wait, the more you can get for your money - that's just how this stuff goes. Technology moves way too fast. Macs are out of the question for me, because I can get so much more computer for the money with a PC. To get a similar setup as a $1000 range Dell XPS you're talking $2000-3000 in mac land. To me, that's money better spent on glass, or hmm maybe even the mortgage.
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Right now I'm waiting on a sweet bing.com cashback deal (it's currently 20% back) in combination with these black friday/cyber monday deals that are going on. It's rough, because not all of the video cards they offer are great either. The one thats really good is the +$180 add on, the nVidia GeForce GTX260 1792MB GDDR3. I was thinking just having a 1GB graphics card would be great for gaming and 3d video acceleration, such as the cheaper option (the GT 220) but it got horrible reviews online.
I went ahead and sprang for the updated video card. My current computer is only two years old and I thought it was great when I bought it, but with the demands of editing in both Lightroom and CS3 simultaneously it keeps freezing up. Now here I am having to find a replacement.
Not sure if the problem is too little RAM (I have 4GB and Vista 32bit won't handle any more than 4), or too slow on the video card or what. I just figured I had better get as many upgrades as I could manage without winding up in foreclosure, LOL.
Hope you get a great deal on yours. I will be interested in your impressions when you have it. I will post mine too :)
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I went ahead and sprang for the updated video card. My current computer is only two years old and I thought it was great when I bought it, but with the demands of editing in both Lightroom and CS3 simultaneously it keeps freezing up. Now here I am having to find a replacement.
Not sure if the problem is too little RAM (I have 4GB and Vista 32bit won't handle any more than 4), or too slow on the video card or what. I just figured I had better get as many upgrades as I could manage without winding up in foreclosure, LOL.
I hate to say this now, Lisa, but I believe it's very unlikely that your video card is the source of your speed bottleneck. (I assume when you wrote 'freezeup', you didn't mean literally that your system froze, requiring a reboot, but rather it temporarily stopped responding.)
More RAM (and a 64-bit OS, obviously) would be much more likely to help. Beyond that, it's either the speed of the processor, or the hard drive.
Lightroom and CS3 make only modest demands on the video system, and I think even onboard GPUs can handle the load fine.
But please do post your findings; I'd be very interested to learn if my "knowledge" is wrong.
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I hate to say this now, Lisa, but I believe it's very unlikely that your video card is the source of your speed bottleneck. (I assume when you wrote 'freezeup', you didn't mean literally that your system froze, requiring a reboot, but rather it temporarily stopped responding.)
More RAM (and a 64-bit OS, obviously) would be much more likely to help. Beyond that, it's either the speed of the processor, or the hard drive.
Lightroom and CS3 make only modest demands on the video system, and I think even onboard GPUs can handle the load fine.
But please do post your findings; I'd be very interested to learn if my "knowledge" is wrong.
Thanks for the info. I am sure you are right and that the problems I am having aren't really related to the video card.
I didn't get the upgraded video card because I thought the included one would give me problems. More that if I am having to go ahead and get a new computer I want to get the best specs they offer so I don't have to upgrade again in another two years.
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Chips challenge is a blast from the past Lisa :) Tell your husband he won't need your fancy new graphics card to run that piece of software ;) LOL I've played that silly little game for hours as a kid.
I know what you mean about having CS3 and LR2 open at the same time. I can do it, but I try not to - all I have is a Pentium 4 and about 1.5gb of ram, but being the geek that I am I have my versions of Windows XP sp3 running the bare minimums when it comes to eye candy and system services. My Windows XP looks more like Windows 98.
I'm all over the place today - I've even considered buying the 27" iMac from MacMall, but the price difference is enough to buy me another L lens and a 7D. When configuring one on macmall.com with similar specs, windows included, it comes to around $2600 - which leads me to reason that the display is basically a $1500 high end display, similar to a Lacie or whatever else, in addition to the $1100 price range computer attached to the back. That's about what I can get the XPS for with all of the discounts. I keep going back and forth - and heck, my 24" monitor I have is more than enough. I love it, and the quality is excellent (at least to me). But it's like comparing apples to oranges. I'm not the type to spend $1500 on a monitor, though. I also like the fact that I can basically change anything on the dell, adding and removing whatever I want in time, or if I want to eventually upgrade it. With the mac, you're pretty much limited to ram and USB accessories.
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Thanks for the info. I am sure you are right and that the problems I am having aren't really related to the video card.
I didn't get the upgraded video card because I thought the included one would give me problems. More that if I am having to go ahead and get a new computer I want to get the best specs they offer so I don't have to upgrade again in another two years.
;D That's what I get for reading too quickly and not having read the previous posts. :D I thought you meant you had bought an updated graphics card for the computer that was giving you problems. Ooops.
I don't blame you for buying an upgraded card with a new computer ... you never know when you might "need" to play a game, or perhaps some other software, that might make bigger demands on the video system.
I built a new system this summer around an i7-920, loaded with 12GB of RAM. It made a huge difference compared to my 2-year old (only!) system. I've been running Win 7 RC, but will switch to the final release soon (as soon as I get the courage and time, that is).
I frequently have Deep Meta, Outlook, Firefox, PS CS4, Bridge, and Excel running all day (and sometimes add Premiere CS3). The only problems I've encountered have been Bridge sometimes warning me about running out of memory. I don't know what it does to do that, but other than that rare occurrence, it's worked great. It isn't as fast as I'd like, but it's much, much faster than my old system.
Hopefully your new Dell will work much better than the junky HP you just returned did. Keep us posted!
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The one thats really good is the +$180 add on, the nVidia GeForce GTX260 1792MB GDDR3.
That's the exact Video Card that I have but it came installed on my Gateway. I'm running a 23" monitor with 1920x1080 resolution and it's been humming along very nicely for me; although the 12 gigs of RAM Im sure is also helping out there. I dont run Photoshop so unfortunately I can't comment on that software. Lightroom definitely runs faster now than it did on my old XP system with 4 gigs RAM and 512MB card.
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It seems like every time they make huge advancements in speed when it comes to processors and memory, the operating systems become more labor intensive and use more memory. That basically sucks up all of the new power, so instead of getting something that's new that flies we end up with something new that's just a "little" bit faster. I hate those low memory popups, KB - it's disappointing to hear you still get them with that much ram. Maybe you have to play with your page file size, but I'm sure you already did knowing that you build your own machines. That's another thing I've considered, but every time I make a parts list up it doesn't seem like much of a savings. Glad to hear that LR speed is improving for you guys at least.
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In my case, I don't think it's the OS that slows things down. Obviously I can't tell for sure, since I went from a slower machine using XP to a faster one with Win 7. But Win 7 feels snappy to me. What slows things down is the intense processing that we do with Adobe software. ;D Just doing normal stuff with a 21MP file is plenty fast, but anything beyond the ordinary (large panos, video) is slower than I'd like. Of course, I'd like it to be instantaneous, so I'll never be happy. ;D
I haven't had time to try to figure out Bridge's problem, but I'm pretty sure when it's complaining about "low on memory" it isn't RAM. I don't think it's the pagefile either, at a little over 12GB. (I seem to recall reading the pagefile should be set at roughly the size of your RAM.)
I suspect it is related to Bridge's cache. Next time this happens I think I'll finally see if I can track it down, but it doesn't happen too frequently, so it may be a while.
Building my own PC was more expensive than buying a pre-built from Dell or the like (though still a ton less than a comparable Mac). But being able to get exactly what I wanted was worth the extra money and time. I'm very happy with this machine, especially the fact that it is just about impossible to hear that it is on -- unless the CPU is processing heavily, in which case the temperature rise will cause the fans to kick up a notch or three. Since that rarely happens, I know my speed bottlenecks are mainly due to hard drive speed. I can hardly wait until SSDs become more affordable! :)
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Quick, someone tell me what to do. Dell XPS pc or 27" imac. I can't decide :) I keep going back and forth :P
I think with the XPS 8000 or 9000 will be way better for gaming, and that's something I like to do when I'm not working. I looked up the benchmark tests between the imac's Radeon card and the Dell's Nvidia GTX260 - the GTX260 won by a pretty decent amount. How much of a difference is it really? I probably couldn't really tell unless I compared the two side by side myself. http://www.techspot.com/review/109-geforce-gtx-260-280-versus-radeon-4850-4870/ (http://www.techspot.com/review/109-geforce-gtx-260-280-versus-radeon-4850-4870/)
So staying PC - you save money, you get better gaming, more availability of software. With the mac you get no viruses, adware, and the amazing screen. I can't run NeatImage or Cushystock in OSX, so I'd have to use parallels and Windows XP or something.
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I've been using PCs for ... longer than I care to admit. ;D
I've not once had a virus, spyware, or any other malware. It just takes common sense and some precautions to avoid them. It doesn't take moving to a Mac.
I've got a pretty nice screen with my $550 HP LP2475w. It may not be as good as one of those LED-backlit Cinema displays, but it certainly serves my purposes.
However, Macs are definitely the more "cool" computer nowadays, so if that's important to you, maybe you should pay up and get a Mac. ;D
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It seems like every time they make huge advancements in speed when it comes to processors and memory, the operating systems become more labor intensive and use more memory. That basically sucks up all of the new power, so instead of getting something that's new that flies we end up with something new that's just a "little" bit faster.
Actually, from everything I have read in researching the upgrade, Windows 7 uses quite a bit less space and memory than Vista, which is on my current machine.
So in my case, between the upgraded hardware specs and the simpler OS I am hoping to see quite a jump in speed.
Thanks KB, for sharing your impressions of your new vs. "old" system. My current one is 2 years old too. Even in that short time there have been so many advances!
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Really extremely useful info about the drivers Denis. Thank you!
Just as an update, my HP Pavilion Elite arrived. I spent about 20 hours over three days trying to get it configured with my software, etc., and on support calls because the thing was so buggy.
It kept freezing up at random times, for no apparent reason, along with other strange things like the video card blinking off and then recovering, internet access one day and none the next, etc. Just a whole lot of issues.
Their support was just awful - their only solution was to keep having me do system recoveries, which of course wiped out 6 hours of work adding software and configuring the thing the way I wanted it.
Finally I returned it. Googling HP Pavilion Elite with the i7 processor it turns out that apparently they have faulty mother boards. There is a class action lawsuit filed about it. I am breathing a big sigh of relief that I sent it back rather than continuing to do system recoveries forever until the return period expired.
After some research I have ordered a Dell XPS 9000. It appears much better reviewed than the HP. Keeping my fingers crossed this will solve my speed problems. Hopefully I will be able to stand looking at the fugly red and white case... ;)
Lisafx
Please let us know how you like the XPS 9000 after you get to spend some time with it . . . that is, if you indeed settle for that machine. My computer is starting to complain every time I have CS3 and Bridge open at the same time . . . . . . boy, this computer seemed like a real monster just a few years ago! I remember bragging about having 1.5 gigs of RAM.
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I went ahead and sprang for the updated video card. My current computer is only two years old and I thought it was great when I bought it, but with the demands of editing in both Lightroom and CS3 simultaneously it keeps freezing up. Now here I am having to find a replacement.
That's your video card. 4gb is enough to handle CS3 and another program. I have 3gb and it's alright. When you apply filters in CS3 it's mainly the video card who do the most of the work.
You can look at your computer evaluation under "control panel" - system maintenance - system - view the windows experience index. It show the overall performance rate of your computer. Go see under graphic. If you have around or less than 4.5 or 5 under graphic, you may only change your video card for a new one. It will cost you 200$ (maximum) and you will get a rate of approximatively 8. Try the Nvidia Ge force GT and GTS series, they blows.
Still, look also at your lowest score. If it's not your graphic then upgrading your computer may be a good choice
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You can look at your computer evaluation under "control panel" - system maintenance - system - view the windows experience index. It show the overall performance rate of your computer. Go see under graphic. If you have around or less than 4.5 or 5 under graphic, you may only change your video card for a new one. It will cost you 200$ (maximum) and you will get a rate of approximatively 8. Try the Nvidia Ge force GT and GTS series, they blows.
Still, look also at your lowest score. If it's not your graphic then upgrading your computer may be a good choice
Good advice Vonkara. I just checked and my windows experience is 5.5 out of a possible 5.9. Three areas are 5.5 - memory, gaming graphics, and hard disk. Processor and graphics are both 5.9. Windows 7 expands the "experience" to a max of 7.9.
So I guess everything is "okay", but not awesome. I am hoping for "awesome" now ;D
Etienjones, I will definitely keep you posted about the XPS 9000 after it arrives and I have a week or so to play with it.
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I just checked my Windows Experience Index. 5.8 (out of 7.9).
Processor is 7.4, RAM is 7.5, but the graphics system (5.9) and hard drive (5.8) drag down my score.
I'm certain that the hard drive does affect my performance on many tasks (video encoding, extra large PS files). But I'm just as certain the graphics system does not.
Lisa, when you get your new system, please post your new numbers. Hopefully the system will feel awesome, even if the WEI doesn't zoom up.
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That windows experience rating is quite interesting! I got a 5.9 as my disk data transfer is the 5.9 and lowest score.
Graphics and gaming are 6's and the other two, processor and RAM, are 7.4 and 7.6 respectively.
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I'm certain that the hard drive does affect my performance on many tasks (video encoding, extra large PS files). But I'm just as certain the graphics system does not.
Lisa, when you get your new system, please post your new numbers. Hopefully the system will feel awesome, even if the WEI doesn't zoom up.
I am sure it will be great. As long as it isn't buggy like the HP ::)
Do you (or anyone) know what stats Windows Experience uses to judge the hard drive on? Is it the size of the HD (too big or too small), how full it is, or the speed of the drive? 7200 RPM seems to be the standard for all the ones included in these computers.
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There's something called solid state hard drives, which are supposedly the fastest. They're a lot smaller, though too. $200 for a 150gb I think I heard.
Bing.com has 20% cashback with dell until tomorrow...I am thinking about the XPS 8000 with the i7 and upgraded video card, but I'm wondering if it will be alright, seeing that the power supply is only 350W. Nvidia recommends at least 500watt. Dell says its enough power, that Nvidia over rates it. Who knows? Why am I going to drop an additional $180 if it's only going to lead to more problems, though - or over heating. Whoever mentioned that they got the Nvidia GTX260 with their Gateway setup, I'm pretty sure that system has a larger 500-600 watt power supply.
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Processor, RAM and graphic card are the most important. Hard drive only work when you open, save or search a file. Like when you open your picture folder that have 1000 and more images not diluted in multiple folders.
Hard drive performance affect only around 10% of the tasks from what I know yet. Making multiple folders with less data in each of them can help speeding up the process. It's also easier to find your pics then.
Still it depend on how good you are at cleaning and organisation. I know I use Windows photo gallerie often for finding pictures I can't remember where I put lol
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So Vonkara, you think having a top-end graphics card it would increase the speed of rendering filters? Or is that all ram and processor speed?
Graphics cards seem to make a huge difference for gaming, animation, cad and vid composites. For still graphics I'm not sure they make much of a difference. IF anything, I would think the graphics card would make a difference with filter rendering, 3D renders, or maybe fractals? What do you guys think?
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Filters are all done on CPU (and use RAM ofc). Photoshop uses graphics card a bit, mainly the nvidia cards with CUDA (you can tick it on in the performance settings). This is used for displaying when zooming, moving around and some new effects in CS4. Renderings are also done with CPU, graphic card helps only with displaying the items while modeling.
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Processor, RAM and graphic card are the most important. Hard drive only work when you open, save or search a file. Like when you open your picture folder that have 1000 and more images not diluted in multiple folders.
This is not completly true. When your computer runs out of RAM you start using HDD (Scatch disks in PS for example, but this happens with all programs). Also the information that is in RAM had to came from somewhere (either it is generated by the program or it was read from the HDD).
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8388253.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8388253.stm)
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CofkoCof has it right, IMO.
HDD is much more important than the graphics card in the stuff that most of us do. Any new graphics card, even a $50 card, is more than powerful enough for videos and 2-D imaging. Graphics cards become important only in 3D moving renderings, such as (obviously) gaming.
Even with 12GB of RAM, I find a lot of HD activity going on in Bridge & PS (not to mention Premiere for video). An SSD would make a huge difference, but as arenacreative said, they are a lot more expensive than magnetic HDs. Many also have a problem with slowing down considerably after many writes, so aren't well suited for use as a temp drive (which is exactly what I'd like to use one as).
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Even with 12GB of RAM, I find a lot of HD activity going on in Bridge & PS (not to mention Premiere for video). An SSD would make a huge difference, but as arenacreative said, they are a lot more expensive than magnetic HDs. Many also have a problem with slowing down considerably after many writes, so aren't well suited for use as a temp drive (which is exactly what I'd like to use one as).
I considered buying a SSD for my system and using it as an OS/Scratch disk, which should improve the performance quite a bit. However with the recent substantial price increases I just couldn't justify the purchase. Not yet :D
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I considered buying a SSD for my system and using it as an OS/Scratch disk, which should improve the performance quite a bit. However with the recent substantial price increases I just couldn't justify the purchase. Not yet :D
Same here. But they are definitely on my radar. I hope that maybe in another year they'll be substantially lower in price than they are now.
I'm glad you're a premium member, otherwise looking at our "speedometers", someone might get the wrong impression that we're doppels. ;D
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I finally pulled the trigger on an XPS 8000 since last night was the last time I could get the bing.com 20% off at dell promo. I am nervously awaiting the bing.com confirmation email. I read of at least 4 people getting it on the same system and promo, so that gave me a little assurance. Here are the specs:
1 Studio XPS 8000, Intel Core i7-860 processor(8MB Cache, 2.80GHz)
1 8GB DDR3 SDRAM at 1066MHz-4x2GB
1 Dell Consumer Multimedia Keyboard, US
1 Dell 20 inch ST2010F Widescreen Flat Panel
1 nVidia GeForce GTX260 1792MB GDDR3
1 1TB Serial ATA II Hard Drive 7200 RPM
1 Dell Resource DVD with Application Backup
1 Genuine Windows 7 Home Premium, 64bit, English
1 Dell Studio USB Optical Mouse
1 16X DVD+/-RW and 16X DVD-ROM
1 Sound Blaster X-Fi MB Panzer version 1.2
I chose the laser mouse, but the invoice shows optical. Now I guess have to contact support. Nothing is ever easy about buying anything anymore. I also hear the SoundBlaster cards are crap, compared to integrated audio. Some sort of issue with the front headphone jack making static noise. Maybe I can get the to change it.
Lisa, did yours come in yet? I have to wait a few weeks, but who knows...maybe it will get delayed even further with the whole holiday rush.
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I finally pulled the trigger on an XPS 8000 since last night was the last time I could get the bing.com 20% off at dell promo. I am nervously awaiting the bing.com confirmation email. I read of at least 4 people getting it on the same system and promo, so that gave me a little assurance. Here are the specs:
(snip)
Lisa, did yours come in yet? I have to wait a few weeks, but who knows...maybe it will get delayed even further with the whole holiday rush.
Congrats on the computer Arena! Sounds like an impressive system!
Mine hasn't arrived yet. Darn it! Some of the peripherals have come, like the keyboard and mouse, the included Star Trek game (hubby's getting it for a stocking stuffer), etc., but not the computer or monitor.
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That's crazy they ship it all seperately. That stupid star trek thing. That's getting ebayed haahha hopefully I'll get my $30 back. They charge you for it, it's not free. I didn't want to cause a stink over it, thinking it might mess up the bing.com cashback thing.
I'm a little mad that since the computer is already in "production" mode I can't make any changes. I just ordered it like 12 hrs ago. I picked the laser mouse, and they're shipping me the optical for some reason. I wish I noticed this last night, I should have looked on the invoice more carefully. I don't know why they changed it last minute. The Indian dude on the phone told me I'd have to wait until I received it, then send it back in for an exchange. Dell is sneaky in that they push your order into "production" status ASAP probably so that you can't go and cancel it on them. Something as simple as changing a mouse? Oh well, what can you do. That was a waste of 30 minutes on the phone listening to crappy jazz music ::)
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That's crazy they ship it all seperately. That stupid star trek thing. That's getting ebayed haahha hopefully I'll get my $30 back. They charge you for it, it's not free. I didn't want to cause a stink over it, thinking it might mess up the bing.com cashback thing.
I'm a little mad that since the computer is already in "production" mode I can't make any changes. I just ordered it like 12 hrs ago. I picked the laser mouse, and they're shipping me the optical for some reason. I wish I noticed this last night, I should have looked on the invoice more carefully. I don't know why they changed it last minute. The Indian dude on the phone told me I'd have to wait until I received it, then send it back in for an exchange. Dell is sneaky in that they push your order into "production" status ASAP probably so that you can't go and cancel it on them. Something as simple as changing a mouse? Oh well, what can you do. That was a waste of 30 minutes on the phone listening to crappy jazz music ::)
Oh Jeez. What a PITA. I have heard similar things from other people about Dell. It's supposedly pretty much impossible to cancel an order, and even if you succeed in canceling the charge goes through anyway, and that's more headache to get it removed. I have never bought from them for that reason, but this machine sounded so awesome and has such good user reviews I couldn't resist :D
Are you in the US? If so, they have an add on called "My Tech Team" that allows you to talk to Tech Support in the US. I know, it's crazy you have to pay extra for that, but to me it is worth it for the time it will save if I have an issue. Which I am sure at some point I will ;)
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Right now I'm more worried about getting my 20% cashback from microsoft. What a scam they are running through bing.com...make a purchase and then wait up to 2 days for them to verify that you are going to get your rebate. 20% is $265.80 - I don't know about you, but that's a huge price difference. I read on the forums at slickdeals.net that many others bought the same system and got the email within 24 hrs. So far for me it's been about 36. If they deny me my cashback, I'm sure I can ebay the computer for more than I paid, but what a headache that would be. I'm going to want to keep it either way, but didn't intend on spending so much. I guess I still saved $800 over buying an iMac. Sounds like they got me hook line and sinker. There's still time, but if I haven't gotten the email by tonight I'm going to be really pissed. Some said it took 2 days for them to receive the confirmation email. I've always had success using bing.com cashback on ebay, but with dell.com there seems to be a huge gray area. Never will I do this again.
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I finally got my 20% cashback from bing on my western digital 1.5 tb external drive purchase, from last week. Can't beat $80 for 1.5tb. I've scheduled nightly backups while I'm sleeping, using Windows XP. The task scheduler service wasn't working right, but 40 minutes searching google I found a solution, using MS powertoys TweakUI. I hope I can figure out a way to do it in Windows 7. I think you need to get the ultimate version for that feature, but there might be a workaround. It's amazing that these hard drives don't even come with any software or utilities anymore.
Anyways, I'll let you guys know if they come through with the 20% on the computer. They had better... lol
Lisa I found out bestbuy (some of them) carry the XPS 8000 - I might go down tonight just to play around with it. I need to preview this beast.
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I finally got my 20% cashback from bing on my western digital 1.5 tb external drive purchase, from last week. Can't beat $80 for 1.5tb. I've scheduled nightly backups while I'm sleeping, using Windows XP. The task scheduler service wasn't working right, but 40 minutes searching google I found a solution, using MS powertoys TweakUI. I hope I can figure out a way to do it in Windows 7. I think you need to get the ultimate version for that feature, but there might be a workaround. It's amazing that these hard drives don't even come with any software or utilities anymore.
Anyways, I'll let you guys know if they come through with the 20% on the computer. They had better... lol
Lisa I found out bestbuy (some of them) carry the XPS 8000 - I might go down tonight just to play around with it. I need to preview this beast.
Congrats on your cashback! Wish I had known about that deal before I bought!! Kicking myself now.
Still waiting on that computer. They don't seem in any great hurry to send it. Maybe I should head down to BB too.
OTOH I definitely don't want to go through the process of canceling the one from Dell. I would rather wait than give myself that aggravation...
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http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Dell+-+Studio+XPS+Desktop+with+Intel%26%23174%3B+Core%26%23153%3B+i7+Processor+-+Black/9532749.p?id=1218120178969&skuId=9532749&st=dell%20xps%208000&cp=1&lp=1 (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Dell+-+Studio+XPS+Desktop+with+Intel%26%23174%3B+Core%26%23153%3B+i7+Processor+-+Black/9532749.p?id=1218120178969&skuId=9532749&st=dell%20xps%208000&cp=1&lp=1)
Try adding it to the cart, and then it will tell you store pickup only. Then, enter your zipcode, and it will show you which BB in your area that carries it. I would still call them before you go down there, just to make sure they have a demo. I haven't gone down to check it out yet, but I definitely want to. I have to wait at least another 2-3 weeks anyway before mine gets here, anyway. A close friend of mine, who is also a designer and a photographer (not stock) also gave in and ordered the xps 9000. I'm sort of glad, because now we can all be on the same page if there are any common issues.
Yeah, canceling with Dell would probably be a nightmare. I've heard of 15% restocking fees. If there's something wrong with it I think you can get a full replacement or refund. I'm sure there's a way out if you absolutely had a lemon... worse case scenario, I hear it's pretty simple to file a complaint with consumer affairs online :) That always gets their attention.
The only problem I ever had with a Dell is on my last Vostro laptop. The mouse cursor jumped around the screen a little, or clicked when it wasn't supposed to, while you had the adapter plugged in and it was charging. I just had to go onto their forum, and give my service tag number to a tech. He shipped me the revised power adapter, as well as a pre-paid DHL envelope. I popped the old one in the envelope, and shipped it back - end of story. It's been fine ever since, despite my puppy chewing the heck out of it a few times. That was nothing my trusty soldering iron and electrical skills couldn't fix myself - hahaha
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Found windows God Mode today. Handy to have all these functions in one folder.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13860_3-10423985-56.html (http://news.cnet.com/8301-13860_3-10423985-56.html)
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Found windows God Mode today. Handy to have all these functions in one folder.
[url]http://news.cnet.com/8301-13860_3-10423985-56.html[/url] ([url]http://news.cnet.com/8301-13860_3-10423985-56.html[/url])
Cool !! ;D