Author Topic: Some Jerk Stole My Images! (Read 15993 times)

araminta · « **Reply #25 on:** December 04, 2008, 17:23 »

Quote from: helix7 on December 04, 2008, 11:35

Why is it so unbelievable that someone would shoot photos just as reference material? Maybe some people have good shots of people walking in profile, suitable for a nice silhouette, but the rest of the photo isn't suitable for stock? Or the overall size of the image is too small for stock?

You you read at my post carefully, you will see that I never said that all vector artists are thefts. I'm quite sure that most actually shoot photos as references. But I also suspect that some don't.

Silhouettes are quite often young and sexy women in various studio poses: do you really think that ALL vector artists which have hundreds of different silhouettes in their portfolio are also photographers and hire so many different models to shoot only references for their vector tracing and do not try to also produce stock photos which would sell a lot?

I have some doubt, but I may indeed be wrong.

Concerning your vectors, I don't understand why you take my remark for yourself as you have only one or two silhouette in your portfolio

araminta · « **Reply #26 on:** December 04, 2008, 17:53 »

To illustrate my doubts:
http://www.shutterstock.com/cat.mhtml?lang=en&searchterm=silhouette+woman&anyorall=all&search_cat=&search_group=all&orient=all&photographer_name=&searchtermx=&color=

I have the feeling that SOME of those vectors are traced from references which do not belong to the artist

helix7 · « **Reply #27 on:** December 04, 2008, 18:16 »

Quote from: araminta on December 04, 2008, 17:23

You you read at my post carefully, you will see that I never said that all vector artists are thefts. I'm quite sure that most actually shoot photos as references...

Concerning your vectors, I don't understand why you take my remark for yourself as you have only one or two silhouette in your portfolio...

I read and re-read your post. You said, " Is it really believable that a pure vector artist with no photo in his portfolio shoot photos of so many beautiful girls as a source for their tracing?" To me, that says that someone without photos in their portfolio (such as me) likely doesn't use their own source material. If that's not what you meant, then fine, no harm. But that's what you said: "...a pure vector artist with no photo in his portfolio..."

I know you didn't mean anything directly towards anyone in particular. It just came across as generalizing vector artists who do silhouettes as being thieves.

RacePhoto · « **Reply #28 on:** December 04, 2008, 20:33 »

Quote from: araminta on December 04, 2008, 17:53

To illustrate my doubts:
http://www.shutterstock.com/cat.mhtml?lang=en&searchterm=silhouette+woman&anyorall=all&search_cat=&search_group=all&orient=all&photographer_name=&searchtermx=&color=

I have the feeling that SOME of those vectors are traced from references which do not belong to the artist

Oh how dare you?

This guy drew every one of these, from his own original photos and the 320 models in various poses, 35 trees, sports, and man, woman family groups, and all the assorted cars too. I bet I could find the source material for Hendrix, the blues Bros, Marley and Che all in well knows works.

I like this one...

http://www.shutterstock.com/pic-5422147-hundreds-dogsilhouettes.html

ps not one photo in the collection.

Then some agencies want us to get a property release for a run down bungalow, because it needs protection, and at the same time they have blatant copyright infringing images all over their sites. One best selling photos at IS is just that. No wonder people get frustrated when they see something illegal up on a site and get rejected for something different that isn't infringing.

Better yet, no wonder someone thinks it's OK to create copies and steal vectors when a dunce can observe that some vectors are nothing but copies of others work (which is wrong, but the agencies don't have a way to police it) or worse yet, well known poster artwork.

{none of this is directed at anyone who frequents this forum}

helix7 · « **Reply #29 on:** December 04, 2008, 22:21 »

Quote from: RacePhoto on December 04, 2008, 20:33

...I like this one...

http://www.shutterstock.com/pic-5422147-hundreds-dogsilhouettes.html

ps not one photo in the collection...

Again, I ask, why is it so unbelievable that someone might use legit source material and never upload a photo? And how hard would it be to go to a park for a couple hours and get plenty of source photos of dogs? No releases needed for silhouette work. Just walk around and snap photos. Get shots of people walking dogs. Two silhouettes out of each photo. It's not hard to do. I'm working on some silhouette sets right now, and I've got hundreds of source images. I just spent some time recently in a mall parking lot getting good shots of people walking, car silhouettes, trees, (malls are great for getting isolated tree shots in those parking islands), etc. And I don't need model releases if I'm only going to make silhouettes with them, so the process goes quickly. Some people ask what I'm doing, but most don't mind and most don't even pay any attention to me.

My point is that getting this material for silhouettes is easy and fast, and it's very easy to believe that these guys with tons of silhouettes have their own source material to work from. If they are uploading to istock, they have to have it. I'm a bit surprised that everyone wants to call these guys thieves without having any reason to doubt the legitimacy of their work.

bittersweet · « **Reply #30 on:** December 04, 2008, 22:37 »

Maybe some people are also unaware that figures created with 3D programs such as Poser are legal to use for source material. I contacted Bortonia once to ask because although the licensing for Poser says that derivative materials may be resold, I know that sometimes istock errs on the side being too cautious. She confirmed that many people use it for source.

Also, just because a silhouette is "sexy" that doesn't mean the original source photo was.

Someone could use a photo to get the general proportions and then easily perform some cosmetic surgery to "enhance" the final vector version.

araminta · « **Reply #31 on:** December 05, 2008, 07:02 »

Quote from: helix7 on December 04, 2008, 22:21

My point is that getting this material for silhouettes is easy and fast, and it's very easy to believe that these guys with tons of silhouettes have their own source material to work from. If they are uploading to istock, they have to have it. I'm a bit surprised that everyone wants to call these guys thieves without having any reason to doubt the legitimacy of their work.

Of course you are correct: it is easy to believe that many vector artists use their own references for silhouettes.

But this thread concern one vector artist who trace some vegetables from copyrighted photos: everybody call him a thief because it was obvious that he use photos from another artist as references. It was a mistake, but if you look at his portfolio (which has been disabled at StockXpert now), he has only a few stolen images amongs many quite nice vectors.

When reading this thread, I was just surprised how easy it was to call somebody a thief because he has used a few copyrighted references while it is quite obvious to me that some "silhouette artists" do the same.

And if IS now require the source to be given when uploading traced vectors it may be because they have the same opinion.

It may be the reason why a search on IS with the keywords "silhouette women group vector" return 115 images while the same search on SS return 4000 results

RacePhoto · « **Reply #32 on:** December 10, 2008, 01:48 »

Quote from: helix7 on December 04, 2008, 22:21

Quote from: RacePhoto on December 04, 2008, 20:33
...I like this one...

http://www.shutterstock.com/pic-5422147-hundreds-dogsilhouettes.html

ps not one photo in the collection...

Again, I ask, why is it so unbelievable that someone might use legit source material and never upload a photo? And how hard would it be to go to a park for a couple hours and get plenty of source photos of dogs? No releases needed for silhouette work. Just walk around and snap photos. Get shots of people walking dogs. Two silhouettes out of each photo. It's not hard to do. I'm working on some silhouette sets right now, and I've got hundreds of source images. I just spent some time recently in a mall parking lot getting good shots of people walking, car silhouettes, trees, (malls are great for getting isolated tree shots in those parking islands), etc. And I don't need model releases if I'm only going to make silhouettes with them, so the process goes quickly. Some people ask what I'm doing, but most don't mind and most don't even pay any attention to me.

My point is that getting this material for silhouettes is easy and fast, and it's very easy to believe that these guys with tons of silhouettes have their own source material to work from. If they are uploading to istock, they have to have it. I'm a bit surprised that everyone wants to call these guys thieves without having any reason to doubt the legitimacy of their work.

No doubt you do your own.

Did you follow the link and look? Some are identifiable from popular poster art. Unless you are going to say next, maybe he's the original artist in the first place?

Sure it's amazing, he walks through the park and finds 50 different breeds of dogs all with perfect configuration and poses, as people are walking them past.

I don't think anyone is saying everyone is a crook, just that some people are obviously selling things that aren't their creations.

The other point was, if it's OK to steal Che, and Marley and the Blues Brothers, why should someone steal from the thief. That's where it gets strange. This started with someone "borrowing" ideas and images, and putting them up as his own, because he didn't think it was wrong. He saw so many people copying and using others source material that he didn't see anything wrong with it.

Again this has nothing to do with you personally. Just a general perception that "everyone does it" so it's alright, which some others believe.

Please take a look at this group and tell me what you see?

http://www.shutterstock.com/gallery-102434p1.html

nebojsak · « **Reply #33 on:** December 12, 2008, 07:52 »

Quote from: araminta on December 04, 2008, 17:23

Silhouettes are quite often young and sexy women in various studio poses: do you really think that ALL vector artists which have hundreds of different silhouettes in their portfolio are also photographers and hire so many different models to shoot only references for their vector tracing and do not try to also produce stock photos which would sell a lot?

Why do you think taking a shot of your girlfriend or mate and vectorizing it is so impossible. After all, while looking at silhouette, you don't know if that person is young, sexy, if there was proper light or proper studio conditions. You see only outline.

nebojsak · « **Reply #34 on:** December 12, 2008, 07:55 »

Quote from: RacePhoto on December 10, 2008, 01:48

Please take a look at this group and tell me what you see?

http://www.shutterstock.com/gallery-102434p1.html

I think SS should have rejected those images. But it didn't, for some reason.

araminta · « **Reply #35 on:** December 12, 2008, 08:33 »

Quote from: nebojsak on December 12, 2008, 07:52

Quote from: araminta on December 04, 2008, 17:23
Silhouettes are quite often young and sexy women in various studio poses: do you really think that ALL vector artists which have hundreds of different silhouettes in their portfolio are also photographers and hire so many different models to shoot only references for their vector tracing and do not try to also produce stock photos which would sell a lot?

Why do you think taking a shot of your girlfriend or mate and vectorizing it is so impossible. After all, while looking at silhouette, you don't know if that person is young, sexy, if there was proper light or proper studio conditions. You see only outline.

Outlines can be more or less sexy I would say

And please, read me carefully: I never say it is impossible to vectorize your girlfriend. But have a look at the link I give as an illustration: those vector artists should have dozens of different girlfriends as well as dozen of different (boy)friends (for businessman silhouettes) and have enough time to shoot all those peoples in so many different poses and then trace them all... which is definitively POSSIBLE.

Getting reference images from google search is also very possible and a lot easier.

I just think that SOME (not ALL) vector artists choose the easiest way even if it is also the forbidden way.

Do you think that this is not possible?

graficallyminded · « **Reply #36 on:** February 12, 2009, 08:23 »

Quote from: araminta on December 04, 2008, 17:53

To illustrate my doubts:
http://www.shutterstock.com/cat.mhtml?lang=en&searchterm=silhouette+woman&anyorall=all&search_cat=&search_group=all&orient=all&photographer_name=&searchtermx=&color=

sharpshot · « **Reply #37 on:** February 12, 2009, 09:29 »

I wonder if he is allowed to use these photos of Tiger Woods and Phil Michelson? I am not a huge golf fan but these are very recognizable.

http://www.shutterstock.com/pic-18653608-golf-player-silhouette-vector.html

graficallyminded · « **Reply #38 on:** February 12, 2009, 10:04 »

I was thinking the same thing. They're obviously Tiger, the pose with his arm up in the air.

Veki is from Serbia - has two images on bigstock, and a larger portfolio on fotolia.

Please check and make sure he hasn't stolen or traced any of your own stuff. The more people that report him, the better. This kind of behavior in microstock is both dishonest and unfair.

It's one thing to use images as reference when you are drawing or illustrating. But if you are outright tracing them, that is NOT your own work. If you have the rights to the original photo and you want to trace it, by all means go ahead.

Microbius · « **Reply #39 on:** February 12, 2009, 10:23 »

wow, wipe that egg off your face helix.
Is it possible that the artists own the original photo reference: yes.
Is it likely: not in the case of the Shutterstock guys who submit those files featuring hundreds of silhouettes. That's why the same artists don't have those silhouettes on other sites that require the upload of source material (e.g. IS)

graficallyminded · « **Reply #40 on:** February 12, 2009, 13:32 »

Perrush · « **Reply #41 on:** February 12, 2009, 13:43 »

don't waste your time here, report him to SS and he will be gone in seconds

--

oops thought I was on the SS forum. Well anyway, I can't imagine StockXpert won't take the same action ... could only take a little longer.

graficallyminded · « **Reply #42 on:** February 12, 2009, 14:49 »

Fotolia already took care of it. No more account, sucks for him.

Shutterstock, still waiting on hearing back. I don't think this person is on Stockxpert. I could be wrong...

helix7 · « **Reply #43 on:** February 12, 2009, 20:53 »

Quote from: Microbius on February 12, 2009, 10:23

wow, wipe that egg off your face helix.
Is it possible that the artists own the original photo reference: yes.
Is it likely: not in the case of the Shutterstock guys who submit those files featuring hundreds of silhouettes. That's why the same artists don't have those silhouettes on other sites that require the upload of source material (e.g. IS)

Excuse me?

My whole argument in this thread was that it shouldn't be so unbelievable that there are legitimate artists submitting legit vectors from their own source material. I responded to a claim on page 1 that vector artists without photos in their portfolios likely stole the source material for their vector silhouettes. Did I ever say that everyone on SS was on the up-and-up with their silhouettes? All I responded to was the implication that most vector artists steal source material. If you want to take this one case of true theft and assume that those claims about vector artists generally being a bunch of thieves was correct, then I think you'll be the one wearing egg.

Nothing here proves that vector artists are largely stealing source materials. Show me something that proves otherwise, and I'll gladly admit my wrong. Convince me that I'm wrong that the majority of the thousands of vector artists operating legitimately. But don't act like one case of real theft makes me some kind of fool for believing that this problem isn't the epidemic that some would like to make it seem to be.

And don't even try to act like this prove that most vector artists with any number of black silhouettes in their port are thieves. Who are you to make that kind of generalization?

Microbius · « **Reply #44 on:** February 13, 2009, 03:44 »

I don't think anyone said that all vector artists are thieves. Or that all those submitting silhouettes are thieves. There are plenty of silhouettes on IStock where the artist has to submit their source material.
What was said was that those selling thousands of silhouettes in single files on SS are most likely thieves.
Out of the couple of random links to these kinds of files in this thread a photographer that happened to be read the thread spotted that one of the artists stole their work.
What are the chances of that if the majority are not nicking their source material?
Why do you think that these artists are not submitting the same work to sites that ask for copies of their source material?

graficallyminded · « **Reply #45 on:** February 13, 2009, 07:36 »

Settle down with the mud slinging guys...Helix isn't defending every single individual with a silhouette in their port. You can't stereotype every single artists as a thief, just because they have silhouettes in their portfolio.

Silhouettes are just too easy to steal - and it's too tempting for artists like the one that we caught in this thread. It's not that most vector artists don't the right thing and use their own source material. There are some cases when uncreative individuals that are hard up for money will do whatever they have to in order to try and make a buck. This was the case here.

Microbius · « **Reply #46 on:** February 13, 2009, 08:53 »

@ graphically minded, deep breath, yes you are right.
I am sorry, I was only really trying to say something similar to you, but I could have said it better. I was not trying to stereotype all vector artist that do silhouettes. This clearly didn't come across given the responses.
All I was saying was that I have a lot less faith in those who produce the "thousand silhouette in one file" pieces. Especially those that have African Safari animals, hundreds of pets, sharks, athletes, surfer etc. sets. I just can't believe that they go on safari, followed by deep sea diving, followed by surfing etc. snapping all the way just to produce these sets for SS.

Can I also add that I have a lot of respect for Helix's work and meant no offense personally.

michey · « **Reply #47 on:** February 26, 2009, 10:26 »

One guy on fotolia was proud of his (ugly ) works and putted it on the forum, i said it was a stolen image taken from internet but moderator said there was no problem.
So (i have a bad character) i put links of that picture you can find on internet.
Result?
I have been banned.

P.S. Fotolia is full of traced image stolen and they sell a lot.

Microbius · « **Reply #48 on:** February 26, 2009, 12:24 »

Quote from: michey on February 26, 2009, 10:26

One guy on fotolia was proud of his (ugly ) works and putted it on the forum, i said it was a stolen image taken from internet but moderator said there was no problem.
So (i have a bad character) i put links of that picture you can find on internet.
Result?
I have been banned.

P.S. Fotolia is full of traced image stolen and they sell a lot.

I didn't realize Fotolia had a problem with this too. Any chance of seeing those examples?

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Author Topic: Some Jerk Stole My Images! (Read 15993 times)

araminta

araminta

helix7

RacePhoto

helix7

bittersweet

araminta

RacePhoto

nebojsak

nebojsak

araminta

graficallyminded

sharpshot

graficallyminded

Microbius

graficallyminded

Perrush

graficallyminded

helix7

Microbius

graficallyminded

Microbius

michey

Microbius

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