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Microstock Photography Forum - General => Symbiostock => Symbiostock - Development Area => Topic started by: Leo Blanchette on January 28, 2014, 17:46
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Symbiostock has gotten far too big for one person.
Anyway, a nostalgic happy memory to start:
http://www.microstockgroup.com/symbiostock-development-area/selling-rf-images-is-really-not-that-hard-php-developers-wanted/ (http://www.microstockgroup.com/symbiostock-development-area/selling-rf-images-is-really-not-that-hard-php-developers-wanted/)
Regardless of the public defence I've had to put up today, the bigger part of my heart is thankful especially toward the main helpers of this little big project.
http://ajotte.com (http://ajotte.com)
http://www.clipartillustration.com (http://www.clipartillustration.com)
http://www.picturemojo.co.nz (http://www.picturemojo.co.nz)
http://www.flashstockphoto.com (http://www.flashstockphoto.com)
http://thpstockphotos.com (http://thpstockphotos.com)
http://www.backyardstockphotos.com (http://www.backyardstockphotos.com)
http://cascoly-images.com/pix (http://cascoly-images.com/pix)
http://plingstock.com (http://plingstock.com)
http://stock.imagerion.com (http://stock.imagerion.com)
http://softlightstock.com (http://softlightstock.com)
http://stockabily.com (http://stockabily.com)
http://www.travelwitness.net (http://www.travelwitness.net)
http://www.miami-skyline.com (http://www.miami-skyline.com)
http://www.karensarragaphotography.com (http://www.karensarragaphotography.com)
http://franky242.net/shop (http://franky242.net/shop)
http://stockimages.glennspecht.com/wp (http://stockimages.glennspecht.com/wp)
http://quailrunphoto.com (http://quailrunphoto.com)
http://www.innerstock.com (http://www.innerstock.com)
http://photominingstock.com/food (http://photominingstock.com/food)
http://www.cidepix.com (http://www.cidepix.com)
http://dpstockphotos.com (http://dpstockphotos.com)
http://shaunwstock.com (http://shaunwstock.com)
http://www.imagoborealis.com (http://www.imagoborealis.com)
http://atstockillustration.com (http://atstockillustration.com)
http://stompstock.com (http://stompstock.com)
http://photominingstock.com/earth (http://photominingstock.com/earth)
http://aseanphotostock.com (http://aseanphotostock.com)
http://stock.lkpublishinganddesign.com (http://stock.lkpublishinganddesign.com)
http://www.hookstockimages.com (http://www.hookstockimages.com)
http://semmickphoto.com (http://semmickphoto.com)
http://peopleimages.grsphoto.ca/wp (http://peopleimages.grsphoto.ca/wp)
http://lbarnstockimages.com (http://lbarnstockimages.com)
http://cartoonpictureshop.com (http://cartoonpictureshop.com)
http://lifeispix.com (http://lifeispix.com)
http://www.picture5479.com (http://www.picture5479.com)
http://landwehrle.com/stockphotography (http://landwehrle.com/stockphotography)
http://pinkbadgerphoto.com (http://pinkbadgerphoto.com)
http://picturebreeze.com (http://picturebreeze.com)
http://www.neirfy.com/rf (http://www.neirfy.com/rf)
http://crackerclips.com (http://crackerclips.com)
http://stockphotology.com (http://stockphotology.com)
http://www.dashphoto.eu (http://www.dashphoto.eu)
http://www.energy-photos.com (http://www.energy-photos.com)
http://ibuystockphotos.com (http://ibuystockphotos.com)
http://wojciechrzasa.pl (http://wojciechrzasa.pl)
http://www.emberstock.com (http://www.emberstock.com)
http://stockphoto-images.com (http://stockphoto-images.com)
http://elilena.com (http://elilena.com)
http://www.image-stocks.com (http://www.image-stocks.com)
http://www.kiwistock.co.nz (http://www.kiwistock.co.nz)
http://alanklughammer.com/stock (http://alanklughammer.com/stock)
http://shop.stockfaktory.com (http://shop.stockfaktory.com)
http://www.myvectorimages.com (http://www.myvectorimages.com)
http://acrylik.com (http://acrylik.com)
http://americastockphoto.com (http://americastockphoto.com)
http://apduff.com/stock (http://apduff.com/stock)
http://www.dogfordstudios.com (http://www.dogfordstudios.com)
http://jamstockimages.com (http://jamstockimages.com)
http://stockphotos.sorenegeberg.com (http://stockphotos.sorenegeberg.com)
http://bestnaturestock.com (http://bestnaturestock.com)
http://stock.tdahlphotography.com (http://stock.tdahlphotography.com)
http://shazamimages.com (http://shazamimages.com)
http://danishstockphoto.lk5.dk (http://danishstockphoto.lk5.dk)
http://coolstockphoto.com (http://coolstockphoto.com)
http://photostockpics.com (http://photostockpics.com)
http://stock.kelleherphoto.com (http://stock.kelleherphoto.com)
http://www.raystockphotos.com (http://www.raystockphotos.com)
http://bandkmedia.com (http://bandkmedia.com)
http://stockphotoeurope.com (http://stockphotoeurope.com)
http://easybuyphotos.com (http://easybuyphotos.com)
http://www.advantica.com/stockphotos (http://www.advantica.com/stockphotos)
http://images.mddu.com (http://images.mddu.com)
http://www.jomaplaon.com (http://www.jomaplaon.com)
http://onevectorstock.com (http://onevectorstock.com)
http://www.stocklabb.com (http://www.stocklabb.com)
http://ayzekstock.com (http://ayzekstock.com)
http://stockphoto.bodhidatta.com (http://stockphoto.bodhidatta.com)
http://vectorolie.com (http://vectorolie.com)
http://simplystockphotography.com (http://simplystockphotography.com)
http://www.foodvectors.com (http://www.foodvectors.com)
http://www.sangostock.com (http://www.sangostock.com)
http://tdfimages.com (http://tdfimages.com)
http://sharpstockimages.com (http://sharpstockimages.com)
http://www.teamclipart.com (http://www.teamclipart.com)
http://www.filedimage.com/photography (http://www.filedimage.com/photography)
http://www.bildkistl.com (http://www.bildkistl.com)
http://www.allg.eu (http://www.allg.eu)
http://www.eclaire.de (http://www.eclaire.de)
http://buying-images.com (http://buying-images.com)
http://www.jbstockimages.com (http://www.jbstockimages.com)
http://www.food.ezeepics.com (http://www.food.ezeepics.com)
http://spectral-design.net (http://spectral-design.net)
http://www.digitalbristles.com (http://www.digitalbristles.com)
http://www.millionstock.com (http://www.millionstock.com)
http://jktravelphotos.com (http://jktravelphotos.com)
http://www.txkingstock.com (http://www.txkingstock.com)
http://ercansenkaya.com (http://ercansenkaya.com)
http://viewfactorimages.com (http://viewfactorimages.com)
http://minkymoomedia.com (http://minkymoomedia.com)
http://kerioakimaging.com (http://kerioakimaging.com)
http://ecostockimages.com (http://ecostockimages.com)
http://1dollarimages.com (http://1dollarimages.com)
http://buyillustrations.net (http://buyillustrations.net)
http://snapvectors.com (http://snapvectors.com)
http://royaltyfreestockphotos.co (http://royaltyfreestockphotos.co)
http://vector999.com (http://vector999.com)
http://danielghioldi.com (http://danielghioldi.com)
http://jillerinstock.com (http://jillerinstock.com)
http://ruthblackphotography.com (http://ruthblackphotography.com)
http://www.premiumcarphoto.com (http://www.premiumcarphoto.com)
http://stockyimage.com (http://stockyimage.com)
http://stock.photocreo.com (http://stock.photocreo.com)
http://www.jh-image.com/stockimages (http://www.jh-image.com/stockimages)
http://dianajophoto.com (http://dianajophoto.com)
http://www.symbiostockvideo.com (http://www.symbiostockvideo.com)
http://fotos593.com (http://fotos593.com)
http://www.kennykstock.com (http://www.kennykstock.com)
http://hellostockphoto.com (http://hellostockphoto.com)
http://www.alilamedicalimage.com (http://www.alilamedicalimage.com)
http://scenicoregon.com/webpics2 (http://scenicoregon.com/webpics2)
http://www.crystalmoo.com (http://www.crystalmoo.com)
http://ansharimages.com (http://ansharimages.com)
http://www.ephotobuy.com (http://www.ephotobuy.com)
http://dhodacphoto.com (http://dhodacphoto.com)
http://jeneimages.com (http://jeneimages.com)
http://stockphotoinaquim.com (http://stockphotoinaquim.com)
http://stockphotosart.com (http://stockphotosart.com)
http://stockimagefolio.net (http://stockimagefolio.net)
http://mikephotoart.com (http://mikephotoart.com)
http://stockphotos.ezeepics.com (http://stockphotos.ezeepics.com)
http://yoographic.com (http://yoographic.com)
http://atlanticastockphoto.com (http://atlanticastockphoto.com)
http://yummyfoto.com (http://yummyfoto.com)
http://clipartcartoons.com (http://clipartcartoons.com)
http://www.greenlifeimages.com (http://www.greenlifeimages.com)
http://selectstockpix.com (http://selectstockpix.com)
http://lakestockphoto.com (http://lakestockphoto.com)
http://pseudoimages.com (http://pseudoimages.com)
http://www.paperboxphoto.com (http://www.paperboxphoto.com)
http://www.dutchreflex.nl (http://www.dutchreflex.nl)
http://www.creativeillustrationstock.com (http://www.creativeillustrationstock.com)
http://www.mallorcaimages.com (http://www.mallorcaimages.com)
http://pritchettstudio.com/stock (http://pritchettstudio.com/stock)
http://familiedegraaf.com (http://familiedegraaf.com)
http://www.stockapic.com (http://www.stockapic.com)
http://www.upillustration.com (http://www.upillustration.com)
http://fotorel.com (http://fotorel.com)
http://www.avbpix.com (http://www.avbpix.com)
http://sunnystockphoto.com (http://sunnystockphoto.com)
http://eggheadstock.com (http://eggheadstock.com)
http://retroclipartz.com (http://retroclipartz.com)
http://logoretrostyle.com (http://logoretrostyle.com)
http://www.seanlockephotography.com/shop (http://www.seanlockephotography.com/shop)
http://stock-image-bank.com (http://stock-image-bank.com)
http://www.kwjphotostock.com (http://www.kwjphotostock.com)
http://www.catchthelight.co.uk (http://www.catchthelight.co.uk)
http://clipart4mascots.com (http://clipart4mascots.com)
http://www.madzip.com (http://www.madzip.com)
http://royaltyfreevault.com (http://royaltyfreevault.com)
http://fantasticstock.com (http://fantasticstock.com)
http://stock.geneimages.com (http://stock.geneimages.com)
http://www.ctcartoons.com (http://www.ctcartoons.com)
http://simplerdaysphotography.net (http://simplerdaysphotography.net)
http://www.stocknordica.com (http://www.stocknordica.com)
http://www.vectorjourney.com (http://www.vectorjourney.com)
http://graphicvectors.com (http://graphicvectors.com)
http://focusstockphoto.net (http://focusstockphoto.net)
http://www.stockphotocluster.com (http://www.stockphotocluster.com)
[Edited and Updated]
Thanks to some key people coming in at the right time, most of the opening comments of this thread no longer apply. So I've deleted them and replaced with below
Here is a little positive inspiration:
Symbiosis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbiosis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbiosis)
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/70/Common_clownfish_curves_dnsmpl.jpg/250px-Common_clownfish_curves_dnsmpl.jpg)
This project encompasses a very unique concept, so adjustments will always have to be made. Challenges will usually come at inopportune times (I've been slow to accept this, but do now) Since posting this some very qualified people have joined in to help on important aspects of the project, and this has allowed me a degree of balance again in the level of responsibility I carry with the project.
Thank you everyone for being a part of this project and with the new structure and direction, it appears the general health of the project will be restored.
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You´ve done an amazing job Leo! Symbiostock will be alive and well and new driving forces will emerge.
All the best!
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Good luck Leo,
I haven't jumped to SYS (mostly for a lack of time) but sincerely hope that SYS stays healthy. I think contributors need something like this.
Good on you for looking out for number 1. You should do these things because you love it and because it benefits you. That is why we all do this. Once either of those stop it is only responsible for you to walk away. Hopefully others can chip in and keep the model alive.
Cheers all.
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There's still plenty of development ahead. We just have to love it again :D
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As a fellow illustrator I can completely understand and have been contemplating jumping in myself :) enjoy your inspiration !
My Very Best :)
KimsCreativeHub.com
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Jumping in sys that is
My Very Best :)
KimsCreativeHub.com
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So I'm feeling shell shocked again, but I'm sure that'll be fine in a little while...
Before you head back to illustrator-heaven Leo, can you update the sources on GitHub - the last commit I see from you was a couple of weeks ago and there have been updates since. It'll make it much easier to keep things going if we have the current code base at our disposal. And not only that I'll feel a whole lot less panicked if I know there's code there to update my fork from :)
But if you feel like updating things more often, that'd be fine - why let a few frothy comments from a tiny minority of the 164-ish sites control where things go? I can't be the only site owner who does care but refuses to engage in fisticuffs in the forums, can I?
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So I'm feeling shell shocked again, but I'm sure that'll be fine in a little while...
Before you head back to illustrator-heaven Leo, can you update the sources on GitHub - the last commit I see from you was a couple of weeks ago and there have been updates since. It'll make it much easier to keep things going if we have the current code base at our disposal. And not only that I'll feel a whole lot less panicked if I know there's code there to update my fork from :)
But if you feel like updating things more often, that'd be fine - why let a few frothy comments from a tiny minority of the 164-ish sites control where things go? I can't be the only site owner who does care but refuses to engage in fisticuffs in the forums, can I?
LOL - your very right.
Its actually not that complicated, and yet, nothing could be more complicated. I know technology, but I'm not extremely gifted with people. I guess the formula is to stick to what I'm good at!
I'll get github updated asap. I lost about 3 hours today, but overall things are moving forward nicely.
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So I'm feeling shell shocked again, but I'm sure that'll be fine in a little while...
Before you head back to illustrator-heaven Leo, can you update the sources on GitHub - the last commit I see from you was a couple of weeks ago and there have been updates since. It'll make it much easier to keep things going if we have the current code base at our disposal. And not only that I'll feel a whole lot less panicked if I know there's code there to update my fork from :)
But if you feel like updating things more often, that'd be fine - why let a few frothy comments from a tiny minority of the 164-ish sites control where things go? I can't be the only site owner who does care but refuses to engage in fisticuffs in the forums, can I?
Here you go:
https://github.com/orangeman555/symbiostock
And the theme file:
https://github.com/orangeman555/symbiostock/blob/master/symbiostock.zip?raw=true
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Thanks!
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Please allow me to apologise for the way I handled my criticism. I should have followed my own advice and should have kept it to myself or expressed myself privately.
I do think criticism should not be ignored in this project moving forward, its invaluable feedback.
Just let it be clear that I am still helping people getting on board with Symbiostock, I am still getting PMs from people asking my about my experience or if I can help them with their site/seo. And I respond positively to their questions.
I also love my site, nothing has changed about that. I never thought Symbiostock is a failure, and still dont. I have always defended the project when needed and will continue to do so.
I have much respect for the work that Leo, Michelle, Jo Ann, and many others have put towards the project. That will never change either. Thank you for all you have done.
So I sincerely apologise for the way I handled my criticism. I hope it can be forgiven.
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I've been crazy busy with non-stock commitments for the last few weeks, and haven't checked in here much. I have obviously missed a lot……
Leo, firstly a thank-you for the huge effort you have put into this project. My site isn't developed yet - I got as far as buying my domain a few weeks back, and installing the themes, etc. but now need to actually personalise and populate the site. This project has given me the opportunity to not only have my own website, (as that could be done through various means), but to get some traffic from the networking side and some support from a community willing to assist, and to be part of a worthy and commendable project.
I take it that it is still worth me proceeding with developing my site? I haven't anything to give in return for technical support but, hopefully, another site can mean more traffic and sales for others? This is all very daunting for a complete novice!!
I sincerely hope that the community rallies round in all ways possible to keep this project alive and kicking. I don't know what I can do but I'm willing to muck in if asked :)
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Please allow me to apologise for the way I handled my criticism. I should have followed my own advice and should have kept it to myself or expressed myself privately.
I do think criticism should not be ignored in this project moving forward, its invaluable feedback.
Just let it be clear that I am still helping people getting on board with Symbiostock, I am still getting PMs from people asking my about my experience or if I can help them with their site/seo. And I respond positively to their questions.
I also love my site, nothing has changed about that. I never thought Symbiostock is a failure, and still dont. I have always defended the project when needed and will continue to do so.
I have much respect for the work that Leo, Michelle, Jo Ann, and many others have put towards the project. That will never change either. Thank you for all you have done.
So I sincerely apologise for the way I handled my criticism. I hope it can be forgiven.
Well, its my bedtime! Building in an analytics system finally for Cascoly.
There's nothing to forgive. I don't hold grudges. :D I even have positive thoughts about JSPK!
PS - forgive my stupidity too. While I don't have the benefit of being drunk, I do say things I regret when I'm tired. :-X
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Ok, no worries, cool. Thanks Leo, appreciate your attitude. Onward and upward. Sleep well. ;)
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OK, Ron has posted while I was typing and obviously things have become heated and personal somewhere along the line. I haven't read what has happened but can confirm that I am one of the people who PMd Ron with some Symbio queries, and I certainly received a very thorough and positive response - it is on the strength of those emails that I actually took the plunge.
I hope that whatever has gone down can be amicably resolved after everyone has had the chance to sleep on it.
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I've been crazy busy with non-stock commitments for the last few weeks, and haven't checked in here much. I have obviously missed a lot……
Leo, firstly a thank-you for the huge effort you have put into this project. My site isn't developed yet - I got as far as buying my domain a few weeks back, and installing the themes, etc. but now need to actually personalise and populate the site. This project has given me the opportunity to not only have my own website, (as that could be done through various means), but to get some traffic from the networking side and some support from a community willing to assist, and to be part of a worthy and commendable project.
I take it that it is still worth me proceeding with developing my site? I haven't anything to give in return for technical support but, hopefully, another site can mean more traffic and sales for others? This is all very daunting for a complete novice!!
I sincerely hope that the community rallies round in all ways possible to keep this project alive and kicking. I don't know what I can do but I'm willing to muck in if asked :)
Happy to have you. With Symbiostock:
Don't panic, and never forget your towel.
See yall.
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I've been crazy busy with non-stock commitments for the last few weeks, and haven't checked in here much. I have obviously missed a lot……
Leo, firstly a thank-you for the huge effort you have put into this project. My site isn't developed yet - I got as far as buying my domain a few weeks back, and installing the themes, etc. but now need to actually personalise and populate the site. This project has given me the opportunity to not only have my own website, (as that could be done through various means), but to get some traffic from the networking side and some support from a community willing to assist, and to be part of a worthy and commendable project.
I take it that it is still worth me proceeding with developing my site? I haven't anything to give in return for technical support but, hopefully, another site can mean more traffic and sales for others? This is all very daunting for a complete novice!!
I sincerely hope that the community rallies round in all ways possible to keep this project alive and kicking. I don't know what I can do but I'm willing to muck in if asked :)
Happy to have you. With Symbiostock:
Don't panic, and never forget your towel.
See yall.
Thanks!
Not sure what the towel reference is but I will try not to panic ;)
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Please allow me to apologise for the way I handled my criticism. I should have followed my own advice and should have kept it to myself or expressed myself privately.
I do think criticism should not be ignored in this project moving forward, its invaluable feedback.
Just let it be clear that I am still helping people getting on board with Symbiostock, I am still getting PMs from people asking my about my experience or if I can help them with their site/seo. And I respond positively to their questions.
I also love my site, nothing has changed about that. I never thought Symbiostock is a failure, and still dont. I have always defended the project when needed and will continue to do so.
I have much respect for the work that Leo, Michelle, Jo Ann, and many others have put towards the project. That will never change either. Thank you for all you have done.
So I sincerely apologise for the way I handled my criticism. I hope it can be forgiven.
Great move, Ron. I really appreciate your words ... (and voted your post up ;) )
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I've been crazy busy with non-stock commitments for the last few weeks, and haven't checked in here much. I have obviously missed a lot……
Leo, firstly a thank-you for the huge effort you have put into this project. My site isn't developed yet - I got as far as buying my domain a few weeks back, and installing the themes, etc. but now need to actually personalise and populate the site. This project has given me the opportunity to not only have my own website, (as that could be done through various means), but to get some traffic from the networking side and some support from a community willing to assist, and to be part of a worthy and commendable project.
I take it that it is still worth me proceeding with developing my site? I haven't anything to give in return for technical support but, hopefully, another site can mean more traffic and sales for others? This is all very daunting for a complete novice!!
I sincerely hope that the community rallies round in all ways possible to keep this project alive and kicking. I don't know what I can do but I'm willing to muck in if asked :)
Happy to have you. With Symbiostock:
Don't panic, and never forget your towel.
See yall.
Thanks!
Not sure what the towel reference is but I will try not to panic ;)
The "towel" reference is Leo's sometimes unique sense of humor again. It' a reference to something from "Hitchhikers Guide To The Galaxy". It's said to be the most important thing an intergalactic hitchhiker can have with them for a number of reasons. Wikipedia will enlighten you more is you care enough to search.
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I've been crazy busy with non-stock commitments for the last few weeks, and haven't checked in here much. I have obviously missed a lot……
Leo, firstly a thank-you for the huge effort you have put into this project. My site isn't developed yet - I got as far as buying my domain a few weeks back, and installing the themes, etc. but now need to actually personalise and populate the site. This project has given me the opportunity to not only have my own website, (as that could be done through various means), but to get some traffic from the networking side and some support from a community willing to assist, and to be part of a worthy and commendable project.
I take it that it is still worth me proceeding with developing my site? I haven't anything to give in return for technical support but, hopefully, another site can mean more traffic and sales for others? This is all very daunting for a complete novice!!
I sincerely hope that the community rallies round in all ways possible to keep this project alive and kicking. I don't know what I can do but I'm willing to muck in if asked :)
Happy to have you. With Symbiostock:
Don't panic, and never forget your towel.
See yall.
Thanks!
Not sure what the towel reference is but I will try not to panic ;)
The "towel" reference is Leo's sometimes unique sense of humor again. It' a reference to something from Hithhikers Guide To The Galexy". It's said to be the most important thing an intergalactic hitchhiker can have with them for a number of reasons for a. Number of reasons. Wikipedia will enlighten you more is you care enough to search.
Ahhhh, I thought I was missing something. I'll take a look ;)
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Thanks for all of your hard work, Leo. You did most of this with no compensation and I applaud you for that. You saw a need and filled it. Good luck in your illustrating and any other endeavors. Thank you!
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Thanks for all the work Leo and I hope you will keep doing little bits with symbio. I haven't sold a lot but I have only uploaded a small part of my portfolio and haven't spent much time on it. I was surprised to see any sales at all.
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Thanks Leo for the hardwork. You have fulfilled my dream of putting my own agency, even though selling more $$$ is still a dream, though I get a few download once in a while.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Goose (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Goose)
2014, February 5th, 8:04
Yet another rupture of accusations (on my own forum) and I have discussed it with my wife: Symbiostock is no longer my focus.
Many suppose I got rich off of this. Its quite the opposite. There are those who love it, those who hate it, and those who must move on...
Thanks again guys.
Illustration is where the money is. Minding your own business is where the peace is. Back to the days of innocence. Please enjoy Symbiostock. It will always have a future...it is free after all.
Leo
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Thanks for all your help Leo !
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Leo, thank you for Symbiostock and best of luck with illustrations ;D I think the idea of SYS is a tiny little bit ahead of its time for some people to grasp. But the seed of something new had been planted, it'll keep spreading out and I'm sure that after you have a little break you'll learn to love SYS again. We'll be here improving our websites, ports and SEOs in the meantime ;)
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Leo, I totally get how you have reached the point that your family has decided to walk away from this project. But I think you are leaving money on the table. I know you created something for ME/US. A little circle of stock photographers all in the same position of being mistreated by our distributors and I appreciate that more than I could ever express. Instead of retiring from this project - maybe retire from the stock photographer aspect of it (for now). Maybe change directions and expand upon your theme to an entirely new client base. Just looking at "photography" how many photographers are there in the world? We work with kids, families, sell fine art, shoot events like horse shows, dance recitals, football games. We proof school photos online. We print posters, greeting cards and calendars and get a table at at craft shows.
I have no realistic idea how much work it is to "tweak" a theme like this to offer physical goods. You have already got the thumbnailing and resizing down. It might be a thought for you to make a couple themes that can rival Smugmug and sell on Themeforest/mojo-themes ? Wouldn't the natural progression of your hard work be to (profit!) expand the client base to the huge pool of photographers and to also offer a proofing and self-fulfil ordering system for portrait work, events etc.... the ability to order physical goods - prints of various sizes with different types of mounting - photogifts etc. It seems like a natural progression of all your hard work that could maybe be quite profitable.
Then if that theme is successful - expand it to a marketplace for people to sell their hand knit Irish Sweaters and Comics.
Might be a stupid suggestion and I know there is a lot of support that goes into selling themes. But - I for one could use it, would pay for it. I used Smugmug before they raised their prices so much and then had to comply with the withholding U.S. tax laws. I also don't like the idea that there is a third party to those sites and I have to wait for a paycheque from them and trust that everything is being fulfilled properly and reported properly.
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Leo, I totally get how you have reached the point that your family has decided to walk away from this project. But I think you are leaving money on the table. I know you created something for ME/US. A little circle of stock photographers all in the same position of being mistreated by our distributors and I appreciate that more than I could ever express. Instead of retiring from this project - maybe retire from the stock photographer aspect of it (for now). Maybe change directions and expand upon your theme to an entirely new client base. Just looking at "photography" how many photographers are there in the world? We work with kids, families, sell fine art, shoot events like horse shows, dance recitals, football games. We proof school photos online. We print posters, greeting cards and calendars and get a table at at craft shows.
I have no realistic idea how much work it is to "tweak" a theme like this to offer physical goods. You have already got the thumbnailing and resizing down. It might be a thought for you to make a couple themes that can rival Smugmug and sell on Themeforest/mojo-themes ? Wouldn't the natural progression of your hard work be to (profit!) expand the client base to the huge pool of photographers and to also offer a proofing and self-fulfil ordering system for portrait work, events etc.... the ability to order physical goods - prints of various sizes with different types of mounting - photogifts etc. It seems like a natural progression of all your hard work that could maybe be quite profitable.
Then if that theme is successful - expand it to a marketplace for people to sell their hand knit Irish Sweaters and Comics.
Might be a stupid suggestion and I know there is a lot of support that goes into selling themes. But - I for one could use it, would pay for it. I used Smugmug before they raised their prices so much and then had to comply with the withholding U.S. tax laws. I also don't like the idea that there is a third party to those sites and I have to wait for a paycheque from them and trust that everything is being fulfilled properly and reported properly.
+1, nicely put.
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So can someone sum up what is the problem with symbio currently? It looked a home run project.
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So can someone sum up what is the problem with symbio currently? It looked a home run project.
Works fine for me. I have no issues at all with it. Its a great platform and does everything that I expected it to for selling my own work for my own prices. I'm staying away from the networking side of it for now. I've opted out and will depend on my own marketing successes and failures for the time being. That said, I would be interested in joining a closed group of similar niche sites to mine (mining, minerals and industrial). Anyone interested can PM me.
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So can someone sum up what is the problem with symbio currently? It looked a home run project.
Like all software, Symbiostock is not 100% finished and not 100% bug free - but is mostly finished and perfectly capable of selling licenses to royalty free work. Leo - the guy who did almost all the work to build it - has his irrepressible optimism repressed by a criticism or two. As Leo hasn't yet hired a PR firm to polish his every word, you get pretty direct statements from him that reflect how he's feeling.
It can sound a bit offputting, but it is mostly unrelated to how well Symbiostock is working - and there are 170+ sites up and running with 235,000+ images, so I'd say it's doing well for a new project.
If you look at all the griping about agencies here on MSG, it'd be a miracle if there were no griping about Symbiostock! Given that this is so very personal to Leo, I think he has a hard time hearing complaints and letting them run off (like the proverbial water off a duck's back).
I think the most recent specific issue was some suggestions that symbiostock.com be focused not on contributors considering building a site but on buyers; Leo had just spent a bunch of time working on revamping the site and ...
This is all just my take on it - others may see things differently - YMMV (you get the idea) :)
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So can someone sum up what is the problem with symbio currently? It looked a home run project.
Like all software, Symbiostock is not 100% finished and not 100% bug free - but is mostly finished and perfectly capable of selling licenses to royalty free work. Leo - the guy who did almost all the work to build it - has his irrepressible optimism repressed by a criticism or two. As Leo hasn't yet hired a PR firm to polish his every word, you get pretty direct statements from him that reflect how he's feeling.
It can sound a bit offputting, but it is mostly unrelated to how well Symbiostock is working - and there are 170+ sites up and running with 235,000+ images, so I'd say it's doing well for a new project.
If you look at all the griping about agencies here on MSG, it'd be a miracle if there were no griping about Symbiostock! Given that this is so very personal to Leo, I think he has a hard time hearing complaints and letting them run off (like the proverbial water off a duck's back).
I think the most recent specific issue was some suggestions that symbiostock.com be focused not on contributors considering building a site but on buyers; Leo had just spent a bunch of time working on revamping the site and ...
This is all just my take on it - others may see things differently - YMMV (you get the idea) :)
That is basically my take on it, too.
I just hope that Leo finds a healthier emotional distance to his brainchild Symbiostock, the community of site owners using the theme and sometimes hostile outsiders. This and his work - life balance as far as Symbiostock is concerned seems to be biggest issue right now. I really, really hope that Leo manages to work it all out for him and his family. So he can stay being a (major) part of Symbiostock and the success that Symbiostock, I have no doubts, will be with or without him.
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So can someone sum up what is the problem with symbio currently? It looked a home run project.
Like all software, Symbiostock is not 100% finished and not 100% bug free - but is mostly finished and perfectly capable of selling licenses to royalty free work. Leo - the guy who did almost all the work to build it - has his irrepressible optimism repressed by a criticism or two. As Leo hasn't yet hired a PR firm to polish his every word, you get pretty direct statements from him that reflect how he's feeling.
It can sound a bit offputting, but it is mostly unrelated to how well Symbiostock is working - and there are 170+ sites up and running with 235,000+ images, so I'd say it's doing well for a new project.
If you look at all the griping about agencies here on MSG, it'd be a miracle if there were no griping about Symbiostock! Given that this is so very personal to Leo, I think he has a hard time hearing complaints and letting them run off (like the proverbial water off a duck's back).
I think the most recent specific issue was some suggestions that symbiostock.com be focused not on contributors considering building a site but on buyers; Leo had just spent a bunch of time working on revamping the site and ...
This is all just my take on it - others may see things differently - YMMV (you get the idea) :)
agree completely -- the negativity comes mostly from those who probably won't participate or contribute anyway
meanwhile there are plenty of people who freely give their time to help new sites get started
plus, unlike sites like smugmug which require a significant investment, you can test drive symbiostock for only the cost of hosting (or less if you already have hosting for other projects)
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Thanks for all the useful information/replies, considering how poorly written and buggy even big name things like photoshop really are, this all looks great to me! Sounds like Leo ran into some ungrateful whiners, and that issue got inflated into a big talking point.
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From our part we are very thankful to Leo for this project.
Honestly, since we became professional stock photographers in 2006, Leo has given us one of the best of the incredibly rare good news we've had in these past 8 years.
Unfortunately is so much easier to destroy than to build, and the damage the few people that do not participate and will never participate although deciding to speak about it, is very big when compared to all the thankful people that decided to join.
I cannot understand how hard some people are with Symbiostock and Leo when this project has ten million more chances to help us, than the agencies raising the prices and commissions they pay us to a fair level.
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Thanks for all the useful information/replies, considering how poorly written and buggy even big name things like photoshop really are, this all looks great to me! Sounds like Leo ran into some ungrateful whiners, and that issue got inflated into a big talking point.
You are calling it out but have no clue what happened. A few of Leo's biggest fans and biggest supporters of Symbiostock expressed their concerns over a change. To call them ungrateful whiners is bullsh!t.
Do you have a symbiostock site? No. Arent you part of the problem then? You dont even know these people you are accusing and what they actually said.
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Thanks for all the useful information/replies, considering how poorly written and buggy even big name things like photoshop really are, this all looks great to me! Sounds like Leo ran into some ungrateful whiners, and that issue got inflated into a big talking point.
You are calling it out but have no clue what happened. A few of Leo's biggest fans and biggest supporters of Symbiostock expressed their concerns over a change. To call them ungrateful whiners is bullsh!t.
Amen to that, Ron.
I happen to be one of Leo's biggest fans. I happen to be very proud of my Symbiostock website (now in its 8th month of existence). I happen to be delighted to be part of the Symbiostock network, as I have repeatedly said on this forum and on the dedicated Symbiostock forum.
And yet, yes, I happen to be one who publicly suggested a different course of action on ONE thing Leo had done. One item of disagreement in eight months of involvement with Symbiostock.
Does that make me an ungrateful whiner? I don't think so.
Ron is right. If you don't know anything about a subject, you shouldn't opine on it.
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Martha and Ron, Leo knows who his friends are. He just had a bad day. I wouldn't give this issue any more thought. Symbiostock is in a good place and it is now being overseen by a much happier Leo. I think everyone should continue to voice their concerns and comments. That is how we will continue to grow. No-one should feel like they need to be silent for fear of reprisal. That is what symbiostock is all about. Working together to create a better solution.
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Martha and Ron, Leo knows who his friends are. He just had a bad day. I wouldn't give this issue any more thought. Symbiostock is in a good place and it is now being overseen by a much happier Leo. I think everyone should continue to voice their concerns and comments. That is how we will continue to grow. No-one should feel like they need to be silent for fear of reprisal. That is what symbiostock is all about. Working together to create a better solution.
Thanks for letting us know Leo is okay.
I'm not likely to be silent for fear of reprisal. That ain't my style.
I responded here because I didn't like being characterized as an "ungrateful whiner." That ain't my style either! ;D
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It doesnt have anything to do with being an "ungrateful whiner." Some of us are business persons. I purchased most of the SY stuff. In return, I expected a wordpress theme and software that did what it was marketed to do. I have Facebook for the "friends" stuff. And some of the people I have met in business are also "friends" on Facebook. Most of the people I do business with are not.
Leo had a choice of what he wanted to sell things for. I don't know of many businesspeople who do things "out of the goodness of their heart" without getting something in return. Even the millions of dollars Bill Gates gives to foundations and scholarships provide him tax shelters, etc. Is he doing good? Yes. Is it benefitting others? You bet. But it still isn't without benefit to Gates.
The many tens of thousands of backlinks that a few people are getting from their ties to SY are their ROI. No, maybe actual sale of the SY theme doesnt make the developers money. But believe that the backlinks are driving traffic to their sites. That massive amount of traffic increases sales. The traffic that the average photographer with one website and a couple thousand images will get on SY, not so much. The positive marketing of SY must continue in order for those with the most links to continue to benefit.
My ROI was virtually nil. That means it didnt work for me. Your mileage may vary. Is that considered whining or being ungrateful? There are some here who will most definitely consider that whining. Remember all the cheerleaders at istock? Leo has his own. There are some who are in this for a business. There are some who have faith, don't care if they make sales, and are looking for a leader, a hero, someone to worship.
To each his/her own. I'd like to think my decision to cut bait and move on was based on what I want out of my business. SY was moving in a direction that had nothing to do with me and growing my business, only growing the SY name and the developer's business. Not what I had in mind. :)
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Cathy... Im half with you here. But I do not understand the link thing fully. Can you elaborate or better provide a diagram that shows the traffic as you see it?
I gave you a heart, to ballance the many minuses you have got.
Then you can give me one to outbalance what Ill get.
:-)
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everyones free to have their own opinion - good or bad
she explained her reason - only one sale in 8 months and no notice of difference between having a network of people vs having noone in network
therefore she left, maybe some sour grapes but meh, I can sympathize
I havent made a sale there yet, but I bought hosting for 2 years to see where it takes me. Its not a huge investment, I have blown money for far less possibilities
It takes time, patience, good images and traffic coming to the site - all of this is still very much in its infancy, so I dont have outrageous expectations, but I do appreciate that Leo has made this alternative available to everyone and anyone that wants to try it out.
As in any venture you have people that will find great success, a few bitter disappointment , and the majority will land somewhere in between.
I appreciate this is just another option to try, as there is precious little else available for this little investment, and it certainly is a breath of fresh air to try something different and new.
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I told myself I wouldn't come back here, but I've received so many slaps from you I figured it was finally time to really defend.
+1
And bravo, Leo, for doing that.
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Leo?
Who earns money on this?
Is there a link/ traffic pyramid scheme?
I asked Cathy for proof and now I asked you.
I cannot follow the links you have provided.
Maybe you are falsely accused, maybe you are somebodys means.
Who is Bluehost?
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Jens, get a symbiostock site and find out, or stop your bullshitting
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Deleted.
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Theres that name calling again. Theres Martha to jump in. Next will be cascoly telling me how stupid i am too. So predictable.
Actually Leo you have sort of proven my point for me. If you arent gaining anything from network connections, whats the point of having them? If no one is making money on all their sites that can be attributed to the links, whats the point. You go right ahead and tell me how little i know about seo. If links dont matter, why are there so many leading to your site, and a few other people sites? Why are you guys building multiple sites and trying to recruit people to post stuff on them? The whole premise of SY was based on the networking. YOU came up with that selling point, not me. You forgot to include the caveat that it takes a whole ton of links to make a difference. Now that i know, i can see that the whole networking thing wont work for me, unless i can use you guys' strategy. Maybe someday i will have the time to build multiple sites.
I came here to express my opinion but you and yours seem to be awfully determined to negate my opinion. You cant. Its still my opinion, whether you like it or not. You can bluster and blow up your chest and engage in a little bullying yourself, it Still doesnt change my opinion. Even if you use 200 pt type! ;)
Not sure why you are so worried. People still idolize you and people are still building sites. Seems like i must be telling the truth about something, otherwise you wouldnt be here defending and protesting so much..
I think people have a right to hear other sides of a story. If i feel like defending myself against yours, marthas and anyone elses name calling, i have that right too. Just like you. I explained why i made a business decision and why i dont consider that ungrateful whining, as one gentleman said.
There are many good things about the SY theme. I am pretty sure i have said that before. And after having built a site now using other themes and software, i can see that there are many positives about that software too. I dont need the networkng stuff, especially since it doesnt seem to be working for me or you (according to you) or many others.
Thanks for posting the links. You have reaffirmed that my decision was the right one for me.
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Enough of you have seen the reality of the accusations I get, and the lack of weight they actually have. Still, I'm deleting my replies because its rarely a good idea to put up personal analytics. But its obvious to those who could see at least for a while, its not the traffic generating scheme that disillusioned people might imply.
Truth be told Symbiostock will not thrive in the pond it hatched from. Too many piranas in it. Were it not for the trolling, I suspect it might have gone much further. Still the trial-by-fire has had it's benefits.
In a nutshell:
I've actually done worse since creating Symbiostock. I guess its called paying my dues as a startup. So finally when I do break even, I will not have to apologize. When I get ahead, it will have been fair.
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everyones free to have their own opinion - good or bad
she explained her reason - only one sale in 8 months and no notice of difference between having a network of people vs having noone in network
therefore she left, maybe some sour grapes but meh, I can sympathize
I havent made a sale there yet, but I bought hosting for 2 years to see where it takes me. Its not a huge investment, I have blown money for far less possibilities
It takes time, patience, good images and traffic coming to the site - all of this is still very much in its infancy, so I dont have outrageous expectations, but I do appreciate that Leo has made this alternative available to everyone and anyone that wants to try it out.
As in any venture you have people that will find great success, a few bitter disappointment , and the majority will land somewhere in between.
I appreciate this is just another option to try, as there is precious little else available for this little investment, and it certainly is a breath of fresh air to try something different and new.
I totally agree with you. SY was a shot, i took it. More than anyone else offered at the time. And if your "bitter disappointment" words were directed at me, i am not bitter. I am actually happy with the site i have now. I like the features it has, and glad i made the move. I learned alot about wordpress building the SY site.
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Cathy, early on in Microstock Christos Georghiou http://www.atstockillustration.com/ (http://www.atstockillustration.com/) told me how I could succeed in Microstock. He gave me a very concise rundown on every detail.
Do you have any idea how much a man with 3 children beneath 2 years old appreciated that? I had to be home, and he saved me through information alone. He didn't have to do that.
He was the first one I ever "networked with" before Symbio. When I had a site and got good enough, my first project was to get him in business too. Even on his lesser traffic he does great. Christos is the reason I succeeded in this business, because he wrote me a privage message on Istock when I thought there was a conspiracy keeping my images from selling. Look at his portfolio. Is it any wonder he's elite and sells even in low traffic conditions?
The difference is I actually understood he was not flattering me and gave me a direction to go in and I did it.
I could defend myself on subjects you don't understand, but its fruitless. That's why I come off as a *insult removed* -- I don't give the whole story because the ones calling me to account won't listen to it or understand it anyway.
Its funny because early on I made a statement "Symbiostock is very unflattering toward people". But it was so new and fun nobody seemed to care about such statements. A year down the road, everyone cares.
I say "Don't spend your money on facebook advertising!" but people do it anyway, and get mad at me when it has no effect.
I speak once, twice, three times, and a few people are not listening except to trap me in my words. The time I've invested into Symbiostock was the same as the time I invested teaching in the forums. If in the end helps some people but not others, the most you can do is really look at why that is instead of inventing conspiracies.
I'm done here for the day -- and possibly for good -- take what you want from it all.
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Enough of you have seen the reality of the accusations I get, and the lack of weight they actually have. Still, I'm deleting my replies because its rarely a good idea to put up personal analytics. But its obvious to those who could see at least for a while, its not the traffic generating scheme that disillusioned people might imply.
Truth be told Symbiostock will not thrive in the pond it hatched from. Too many piranas in it. Were it not for the trolling, I suspect it might have gone much further. Still the trial-by-fire has had it's benefits.
In a nutshell:
I've actually done worse since creating Symbiostock. I guess its called paying my dues as a startup. So finally when I do break even, I will not have to apologize. When I get ahead, it will have been fair.
You havent answered my question (what you are now calling an accusation). If links and networking are irrelevant, why are they in there? What is the point of the networking? What was the point of including it in there? It must have been a pain in the butt for you to put that in the software. Why wouldnt you just build a kick ass theme where all the features work correctly, with plugins, and sell them like other companies do?
Trolling? I used your software for eight months and i am reporting my findings and my questions. Not sure how that constitutes trolling.
I encourage everyone to give SY a shot. I would like to see if my experience is an isolated incident and if others fare better now that the network is growing. That would be awesome for all if it actually does work for the hundreds of sites and not just a few.
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no Cathy my words were not directed at you but were a general statement that in all ventures there are a few that do amazingly well with the venture, others fail and will be dissappionted and most will fare out somewhere in between
this goes for any venture, business scheme, etc
I truly do sympathize with you that it didn't work out for you
I wish noone foul or menace esp yoou - you were a part of my network in fact because you offered me help when I was having some issues when I started up.
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Enough of you have seen the reality of the accusations I get, and the lack of weight they actually have. Still, I'm deleting my replies because its rarely a good idea to put up personal analytics. But its obvious to those who could see at least for a while, its not the traffic generating scheme that disillusioned people might imply.
Truth be told Symbiostock will not thrive in the pond it hatched from. Too many piranas in it. Were it not for the trolling, I suspect it might have gone much further. Still the trial-by-fire has had it's benefits.
In a nutshell:
I've actually done worse since creating Symbiostock. I guess its called paying my dues as a startup. So finally when I do break even, I will not have to apologize. When I get ahead, it will have been fair.
You havent answered my question (what you are now calling an accusation). If links and networking are irrelevant, why are they in there? What is the point of the networking? What was the point of including it in there? It must have been a pain in the butt for you to put that in the software. Why wouldnt you just build a kick ass theme where all the features work correctly, with plugins, and sell them like other companies do?
Trolling? I used your software for eight months and i am reporting my findings and my questions. Not sure how that constitutes trolling.
I encourage everyone to give SY a shot. I would like to see if my experience is an isolated incident and if others fare better now that the network is growing. That would be awesome for all if it actually does work for the hundreds of sites and not just a few.
Maybe I don't want to explain myself on your every aggression? But pretending this is a constructive conversation, I can explain:
You havent answered my question (what you are now calling an accusation). If links and networking are irrelevant, why are they in there? What is the point of the networking? What was the point of including it in there? It must have been a pain in the butt for you to put that in the software. Why wouldnt you just build a kick ass theme where all the features work correctly, with plugins, and sell them like other companies do?
Your calling them "links". They are search results. Search results humans click on. And yes, they click on them. But guess what -- you can do it without links too!
Do I really have to explain: I land on site A and do a search. I scroll down, see nothing I like. But I do see networked site B has things I like. So I go there. Sometimes your site A, sometimes your site B. And besides, its fun.
Why wouldnt you just build a kick ass theme where all the features work correctly, with plugins, and sell them like other companies do?
I download quite a few themes from Themeforest, and its rare that I do not have to go in and tweak something due to rules being broken or bad code. Symbiostock.com is made up of themes and plugins, and it crashes regularly.
But I might just take your advice. One member who is familiar with the subject told me I should bring Symbiostock to themeforest and sell it there. And I thought....wow....I might just do that. A few more features...a few more trendy gimmicks....
Trolling? I used your software for eight months and i am reporting my findings and my questions. Not sure how that constitutes trolling.
... Yes, you do troll. And the statement you just made is called "deflection" coupled with a small stunt to change the course of an argument by adding an irrelevant detail as a focus. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%29 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%29)
If you've found a more productive use of your time, then I am happy for you. Just stay the course.
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Anyway, I really have to go now. If I had one wish its that after everyone involved had a good read of this thread, it could be deleted. My days of the forums are done due to chaos and needless challenges such as this.
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Guys take a chill pill. If you don't like leave it. Try other self hosting solutions. See if that works for you. If it works let me know as well. :)
This is a tough industry and we know that for sure. Moreover you are competing against all these agencies that have millions of dollar of budget. I wish there was a plugin to get more sales. For the record I have had no sales.
Btw what's wrong in just uploading to the website every time you upload to other agencies. You get 100% acceptance plus backup of your pictures and hopefully few sales.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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It doesnt have anything to do with being an "ungrateful whiner." Some of us are business persons. I purchased most of the SY stuff. In return, I expected a wordpress theme and software that did what it was marketed to do. I have Facebook for the "friends" stuff. And some of the people I have met in business are also "friends" on Facebook. Most of the people I do business with are not.
Leo had a choice of what he wanted to sell things for. I don't know of many businesspeople who do things "out of the goodness of their heart" without getting something in return. Even the millions of dollars Bill Gates gives to foundations and scholarships provide him tax shelters, etc. Is he doing good? Yes. Is it benefitting others? You bet. But it still isn't without benefit to Gates.
- Some of us are firstly humans before other attributes...
- I know about fellow human directly responsible you are reading this ( Nikola Tesla ) who did things directly out of the goodness of his hearth.
- Could he become richest man ever ? You bet.
- Did he died poor ? Yap...and by his choice, no bad business decisions involved , just for pure benefit of mankind , as for you or for me or even for that greedy Bill Gates you are mentioning.
- Can any businessman stand next to that human and share equal respect from any conscious human being or claim world has benefited more from him ?
- You can safely place your bet on the opposite to your opinions.
So I deeply believe thinking and living mainly like a businessman can only make you doubtful about any good intentions you run into on your way because anyone is competitor and that makes him an enemy. Everybody are after your cut and you can trust nobody...
Humans are something else
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Just to add Any new initiative would face hurdles and a lot of negativity. Inspite of that Leo worked hard and provided us a platform that we can use to share / sell our work.
He never forced us into this project. He only encouraged us. It is working for some and didn't work for others. Guys give Leo the credit that he deserves. I really hope he made some money by referrals and selling premium plugin. I really hope so.
Leo, don't leave the project. This can evolve into something else , selling sth else.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I'm sorry to see yet another dust-up over Symbiostock here.
Cathy, you're of course right to relay how Symbiostock didn't work for you and your choice to move your site to something else, but you keep saying that you're just stating your opinions and you're doing more than that. You are in effect accusing Leo and some nameless others of setting things up to benefit themselves at the expense of site owners. You keep making this accusation, but other than getting mad when Leo won't explain the details of why Symbiostock is built the way it is, I haven't seen anything specific to back those suspicions up. How discussions of Bill Gates help clarify anything is lost on me.
Accusing other people of fraud is a serious thing. Phrasing the accusations as questions and then saying they aren't really accusations doesn't change anything. If you're happy with your new site, why do you keep returning to try and stir the pot in Symbiostock threads. You're done with Symbiostock, no?
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@ cathyslife stockphotos.com
I honestly believe that you don't realize how offensive and slanderous you're being to Leo and the whole people that have been participating in this project.
Despite all your talk about being a business person, it's you who sound like the one "looking for a leader, a hero, someone to worship". And somehow got disappointed because he's not the knight in shining armor with all the solutions you thought he'd be.
If you were a business person you wouldn't have that level of grudge and resentment. You'd evaluate that this project wasn't working for you, explain your reasons, and move on. On contrary you take all this issue on a personal level that indicates that you felt somewhat betrayed by your leader, hero, by someone you worshiped.
I am in this for the business and if Symbiostock fails, it will have failed in the same way other projects have failed in the past. It won't be different. But for the moment I feel like I'm winning even without sales (I've done nothing to promote it either). I was able to create a functional commercial website for a fraction of the price asked by some known web companies like Smugmug or Zenfolio. None of them gave me sales either, may I add... And some took me a lot of trouble putting things up. And worked far worse in the Google aspect.
And honestly, I don't give a f*** if Leo is benefiting from this project in some ways. I hope he does! I don't require him to be a Mother Theresa of Kolkata. All I know is that he's created an opportunity for many to have their own personal commercial website and a chance to build something really different in this business.
I don't look at Leo as the Saviour and Symbiostock as the garden of Eden. Leo is just a guy that had an idea, and with big or little profit put his hands at work. An idea that is innovative and do little harm when compared with the alternatives.
I get it. You've created an illusion with this project, and when finally you got to the level where most of us have been since the beginning, got frustrated. But the way you're acting is not of a business person.
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... But the way you're acting is not of a business person.
Exactly!
Glad you found these words, all words I had in mind where just too harsh to post them ...
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... But the way you're acting is not of a business person.
Exactly!
Glad you found these words, all words I had in mind where just too harsh to post them ...
+1
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Leo,
I don't know you, but seen what work you have accomplished you surely must have the heart at the best side. I see you are a linux user probably long-time fan of open source and as a result of a better world.
The task you are given yourself in creating a open software suite to help artists to sell their work is a though one. Main reason for this is that your audience are mostly people oriented towards making profit some of them with a large ego. Most of them probably have no clue what open source is all about. This surely can be a reason to lose some motivation.
Take some distance from your project for a while and think over what are your targets. Maybe take a look at other open source projects how they are keeping motivated and try to find some partners with the same goal.
Wish you all the best of luck and don't forget to have some fun.
Dirk
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Theres that name calling again. Theres Martha to jump in. Next will be cascoly telling me how stupid i am too. So predictable.
Actually Leo you have sort of proven my point for me. If you arent gaining anything from network connections, whats the point of having them? If no one is making money on all their sites that can be attributed to the links, whats the point. You go right ahead and tell me how little i know about seo. If links dont matter, why are there so many leading to your site, and a few other people sites?
............
ignoring your newest LIE that I ever called you 'stupid', you continue to show you don't understand about backlinks or networking -- those who participate are gaining traffic which they wouldn't have achieved otherwise -- changing those views intyo sales is a separate process for which each site must take responsibility - maybe the site didn't have what the user wanted? maybe the site just didn't have good images?
if anyone really has 'tens of thousands' of backlinks they worked to get them - you chose to opt out but continue to troll for another chance to badmouth sym whenever you can, yet have nothing to back up your conspiratorial fantasies
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Cathy... Im half with you here. But I do not understand the link thing fully. Can you elaborate or better provide a diagram that shows the traffic as you see it?
I gave you a heart, to ballance the many minuses you have got.
Then you can give me one to outbalance what Ill get.
:-)
it's another of her distortions - whether inadvertent or willful I really don't know -- when my site shows results from my networked partners, google sees that as incoming links to their site. a site that is successful will create many more outgoing links than one that doesn't get much traffic in the first place. people who have more networked partners will on average get more incoming links than those with just a few
a site that drops out of networking, as cathy did very early on, wont see many links in either direction
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And cascoly you keep lying about how i dropped out of networking early on. I never did. But you will to continue to perpetuate that one to make it seem like i dont get it.
Most people in the network have 10 links, plus a few more from keywords. You, cascoly, add every single person to your search page. Same with ajt. That means you have at least 10 people in your network PLUS links to every single person who builds a site. Thats up to what, 250, 300 people now? Is that not a correct statement? Therefore you have more benefits than most do in the networking department. Correct? Therefore you and some others will do way better than most others. Thats how the whole internet scheme works. I could build a site like you did and do the same thing you are doing, of course. Is the average photographer going to do that? No. Therefore a few in the network are benefitting much more than others because of the increased search traffic and links. It is to a few of your's benefit to downplay that fact and keep recruiting people so you can keep building traffic to your site. Meanwhile, those of us who believed that being part of the network with 10 or so links would have equal benefits, and that just isnt so. Thats what people building sites need to understand. The way to drive traffic to your site is with massive amounts of links. Having one or two thousand images and networking with ten or so people is probably not going to be enough.
You guys sound a lot like lobo at istock. Only good things can be said about SY, otherwise the person saying the not so good things is a lying, slanderous, unprofessional. ::)
I have every right to express my opinion and say what i want and what i think to be true about this subject or any other. Everyone has a right to build a site and test it themselves. Everyone has a right to present an opposing view, whether others like it or not. You guys dont get to bully me into not saying what i think.
I have said it, and i will continue to post if and when i feel like i have something to say. Until Leaf bans me. This forum has always been the place to come to freely express views, whether negative or positive. And yet here are some of you trying to change that, now that you have a stake in something. When we were all griping about istock, this was a good place to speak, because we couldnt have our opinions censored. Now you want to censor and discredit anyone who expresses what they believe to be true. It can be done on the SY forum, thats why it was created. Posts are being deleted left and right. Thats cool. Leos game, leos rules.
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Symbiostock exists, it works and it is still in it's early days being barely ten months since the first versions were released for testing.
Potential clients are finding us, if we have what they are looking for they will licence our images, if we don't then they will go elsewhere, simple as that.
If we complain about any of the agencies and what they are doing fair enough, we have no control whatsoever when they change their rules, search algorithms, finagle ways of paying us less etc. for our work.
If we complain about Symbiostock (and only those who are involved in it have any right to do so as far as I am concerned) that is totally different as we are potentially harming our own businesses, so in my opinion it should not be done - anyone remember Gerald Ratner?. Symbiostock is not some entity where only a few actually make any money out of everyone else's work, we all have exactly the same opportunities, how we choose to use them is up to us.
Those who put in the effort deserve to get more out of it. Yes, many of us link to Cascoly and/or AJT - but they in return link to every single one of us within the network. They don't have to, they could be selective but without requiring anything from us in return they choose to spend their money (hosting) and time (listing and coding) their sites to benefit all of us in the network.
Yes, I do feel that only good things should be said about Symbiostock - my site runs using the software freely provided by Leo and links to his site which is my choice, and it is MY Business. Anyone who says or does anything against it is potentially harming My Business and I reserve the right to react accordingly
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I can see a little of both sides.
On the one hand, the linking SEO aspects of Symbiostock have been oversold a bit. So if you built a website using the Symbiostock theme and linked to a few people and expected sales to start cascading into your lap, you were probably disappointed. (In one case, incredibly, bitterly disappointed.)
On the other, I'll bet Cathy isn't on a board somewhere ripping apart the creator of her new WP theme, which I doubt has brought her any sales either.
A few people have been successful on Symbiostock. Those people have a few things in common—but the main thing is that they all worked hard at getting traffic to their sites. They all went beyond building a site and uploading images and linking to ten people.
When I asked Leo what he did, he responded with a long list of all the work he'd done. Then he invited Dennis to share what he did to get traffic, which was different but also took serious work.
So Symbiostock is a great theme, it's a great way to build a site, you'll get some SEO benefits from linking. But you have to do more work than that if you want a decent number of sales. That's just reality.
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I'm sorry to see yet another dust-up over Symbiostock here.
Cathy, you're of course right to relay how Symbiostock didn't work for you and your choice to move your site to something else, but you keep saying that you're just stating your opinions and you're doing more than that. You are in effect accusing Leo and some nameless others of setting things up to benefit themselves at the expense of site owners. You keep making this accusation, but other than getting mad when Leo won't explain the details of why Symbiostock is built the way it is, I haven't seen anything specific to back those suspicions up. How discussions of Bill Gates help clarify anything is lost on me.
Accusing other people of fraud is a serious thing. Phrasing the accusations as questions and then saying they aren't really accusations doesn't change anything. If you're happy with your new site, why do you keep returning to try and stir the pot in Symbiostock threads. You're done with Symbiostock, no?
Just wanted to add that I had no part in the ruckus on the SY forum, so clearly there are others who must think and feel the same way. It apparently has disappeared, so no one will be able to read and verify for themselves. Well played.
Accusing people of fraud...you can go ahead and throw those words out as a legal intimidation tactic. This is a forum where people have the right to say what they think and believe. I have explained why I say what I say and how I view it. These are all my opinions. What I see is in fact true for me. If its not true for you, cool. It still doesnt change what is true for me.
As far as being done with SY, I do not have an SY site anymore. I am still interested in whether adding hundreds of more sites changes anything for the majority of site owners as far as sales go. So yes, I will continue to read threads and post, if I want to.
As far as getting mad, I am not. I am happy with my site now, but believe it or not, there are others in the network with whom I still converse, share like views and would be glad to hear that they are making sales (at this time they are not).
As far as my new site, it is only a couple of weeks old. As far as the developers go, shelma1, they do not offer networking, so no, nothing to discuss there.
And now I really must get back to work. :)
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And cascoly you keep lying about how i dropped out of networking early on. I never did. But you will to continue to perpetuate that one to make it seem like i dont get it.
Most people in the network have 10 links, plus a few more from keywords. You, cascoly, add every single person to your search page. Same with ajt. That means you have at least 10 people in your network PLUS links to every single person who builds a site. Thats up to what, 250, 300 people now? Is that not a correct statement? Therefore you have more benefits than most do in the networking department. Correct? Therefore you and some others will do way better than most others. Thats how the whole internet scheme works. I could build a site like you did and do the same thing you are doing, of course. Is the average photographer going to do that? No. Therefore a few in the network are benefitting much more than others because of the increased search traffic and links. It is to a few of your's benefit to downplay that fact and keep recruiting people so you can keep building traffic to your site. Meanwhile, those of us who believed that being part of the network with 10 or so links would have equal benefits, and that just isnt so. Thats what people building sites need to understand. The way to drive traffic to your site is with massive amounts of links. Having one or two thousand images and networking with ten or so people is probably not going to be enough.
You guys sound a lot like lobo at istock. Only good things can be said about SY, otherwise the person saying the not so good things is a lying, slanderous, unprofessional. ::)
I have every right to express my opinion and say what i want and what i think to be true about this subject or any other. Everyone has a right to build a site and test it themselves. Everyone has a right to present an opposing view, whether others like it or not. You guys dont get to bully me into not saying what i think.
I have said it, and i will continue to post if and when i feel like i have something to say. Until Leaf bans me. This forum has always been the place to come to freely express views, whether negative or positive. And yet here are some of you trying to change that, now that you have a stake in something. When we were all griping about istock, this was a good place to speak, because we couldnt have our opinions censored. Now you want to censor and discredit anyone who expresses what they believe to be true. It can be done on the SY forum, thats why it was created. Posts are being deleted left and right. Thats cool. Leos game, leos rules.
From whatever I understand cascoly doesn't gain from linking all the websites. All of us benefit who are linked from his website. An incoming link is much more important and valuable than outgoing link. Basically outgoin link has so little value you can ignore it.
YOU DONT UNDERSTAND SEO
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Just wanted to add that I had no part in the ruckus on the SY forum, so clearly there are others who must think and feel the same way. It apparently has disappeared, so no one will be able to read and verify for themselves. Well played.
No, I don't think anyone thinks and feels exactly the same way you do. A few of us (including me) had a disagreement about one small aspect of Symbiostock. We all still have Symbiostock sites. I'm still promoting all of us on Facebook. Stop by and give us a like.
https://www.facebook.com/SymbiostockPage (https://www.facebook.com/SymbiostockPage)
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oops, one more thing.
Cascoly, please remove me from your search website or anywhere else you have links to me. You have always said from the beginning that anyone can disconnect from SY anytime they choose.
ajt, please also delete me from the global search on your site, too.
Webmaster Tools is still showing the top three sites linked to me:
symbiostock.info
symbiostock.org
symbiostockphoto.com
I have already informed those who had me in their network weeks ago that I was disconnecting. If anyone else in the network is linked to my site, please feel free to use the slot for someone else.
In order for me to get a good read on what is successful and what is not, I must be TOTALLY disconnected from Symbiostock. That includes all the links you all have to my site.
Thanks! :)
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A few of us (including me) had a disagreement about one small aspect of Symbiostock. We all still have Symbiostock sites.
I'm one who shared Shelma's disagreement on that one small aspect of Symbiostock, but I haven't bailed out of Symbiostock and don't intend to.
I'm still building my Symbiostock site (currently 1,610 images and growing) and am very proud of it.
I'm still one of Leo's biggest fans. I'm not out trashing him or others in the network.
And I "like" not only Symbiostock's FB page (which Shelma created and maintains) but also the fine interconnected network that Symbiostock has become.
As I recall, Cathy never linked to more than a couple of other sites while she was with Symbiostock. Several times, she stated she was "in this for myself", purely interested in her own sales, had no desire to help the network as a whole.
Nobody missed her when she dropped out of the Symbiostock network. Just a shame she feels driven to badmouth it over here.
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I'm still building my Symbiostock site (currently 1,610 images and growing) and am very proud of it.
How are sales ?
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I'm still building my Symbiostock site (currently 1,610 images and growing) and am very proud of it.
How are sales ?
Not great for me. But others are doing quite well.
I'm patient. Building my site. Sales will come.
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Most people in the network have 10 links, plus a few more from keywords. You, cascoly, add every single person to your search page. Same with ajt. (...) Therefore you have more benefits than most do in the networking department. Correct? Therefore you and some others will do way better than most others.
Let me see if I understood you right... So, you're having problem that the people that created and helped developing Symbiostock are benefiting more than others from the networking aspect?
Apart from creating a website and joining Symbiostock, I've done little to nothing to help develop it (wouldn't know where to start to be honest). Should I be upset that the people mentioned are gaining more benefits from it than I? Isn't that natural? Is it so terrible that people working for the project benefit from links and improve their sales? :o
At least they aren't taking +80% of the MY sale and deducting fraudulent credit card sales from MY income! They are earning money THEY'VE earned.
You guys sound a lot like lobo at istock. Only good things can be said about SY, otherwise the person saying the not so good things is a lying, slanderous, unprofessional. ::)
That sentence reduced to dust every single bit of credit you would have for me.
I have every right to express my opinion and say what i want and what i think to be true about this subject or any other.
I agree with it.
What I have trouble to accept is that because you seemed to have absolutely unreal expectations about Symbiostock, now that things didn't work out as you've dreamed in your wild dreams you're acting with deep grudge and somewhat a vindictive mode.
I also cannot agree that based on jealously over the people that worked on this project, and could be gaining something out of their work, you're damaging the image of a project that I PERSONALLY participate.
It take months or years to build a skyscraper but it only takes five minutes to build a bomb and demolish it. I think that this is what you are doing based on personal desires, jealousy and grudge. And you say you look at this as a business person... please...
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I'm still building my Symbiostock site (currently 1,610 images and growing) and am very proud of it.
How are sales ?
Not great for me. But others are doing quite well.
The last time I read through the forums on this I had the impression that the people getting sales tended to be illustrators with already established private sites who had switched to this platform. That was a while ago. Are photographers doing well with this now too ?
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Are photographers doing well with this now too ?
Some are, yes. Redneck in Texas, for example.
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I'm still building my Symbiostock site (currently 1,610 images and growing) and am very proud of it.
How are sales ?
Not great for me. But others are doing quite well.
The last time I read through the forums on this I had the impression that the people getting sales tended to be illustrators with already established private sites who had switched to this platform. That was a while ago. Are photographers doing well with this now too ?
(edited to fix quoting error - I had put my response inside Bunhill's comment instead of following)
I wouldn't say I'm doing "quite well" but I did have my first sale last month - a single image for $20, better than EL's on some of the sites listed to the right and I don't even have 300 images on SY yet. It appears they found me from Google search. That single sale was more than my BME on 8 of the sites I'm on. I was already paying for hosting for another project so my only expense was the domain name.
I'm in this for the long haul and will be putting more effort into my SEO efforts and adding to my portfolio this year.
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I still have only a half built site but planning on finishing it.
I'm still a fan :)
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I still have only a half built site but planning on finishing it.
I'm still a fan :)
As my verrrry old and verrrry cool 8) Great-uncle Roy used to say: Good on you!
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ajt, please also delete me from the global search on your site, too.
Webmaster Tools is still showing the top three sites linked to me:
symbiostock.info
symbiostockphoto.com
All links leading to your site from above adresses were automatically removed three days after you deactivated Symbiostock theme. Webmaster Tools reports them because Google has them in database, and I think that you have to wait months (sometimes even longer), until they completely disappear.
BTW, my Webmaster Tools show 571 links leading to my site from cathyslifestockphotos :D
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ajt, please also delete me from the global search on your site, too.
Webmaster Tools is still showing the top three sites linked to me:
symbiostock.info
symbiostockphoto.com
All links leading to your site from above adresses were automatically removed three days after you deactivated Symbiostock theme. Webmaster Tools reports them because Google has them in database, and I think that you have to wait months (sometimes even longer), until they completely disappear.
BTW, my Webmaster Tools show 571 links leading to my site from cathyslifestockphotos :D
:)
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A Big Thanks to Leo and everyone involved in making this a reality! I am extremely grateful for all your selfless work and help building this... which for a lot of seemed like far away dream. I will keep on working on building my site, there's still a long road ahead but as the saying goes... once you start you are already halfway there. Thanks for giving us the much needed leap and getting us closer on becoming independent from external stock sites!
Anyway, wishing you all the best wherever life takes you.
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Many suppose I got rich off of this.
like if there is anything wrong with that! :)
I believe even the haters will accept that symbiostock is "at least" a good product which is also FREE?
it may not work equally well for everyone.. but it's a good product that works.. and good products deserve good returns..
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I still have only a half built site but planning on finishing it.
I'm still a fan :)
Just like movie "Field of Dreams"- build the site and they (buyers) will come...
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I decided a few days ago to redo my food site so I started from scratch with a different domain. Dead easy and simple to do. All it took was a little patience (because I don't read instructions, just ask my wife :) ) and now I'm busily uploading to the new site. Thanks Leo! I had been out for quite some time and it is really cool how far the theme has come since I first installed it back at the beginning.
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Am I understanding it well? There is one "businesswoman" who is disappointed that SYS hasn't been profitable for her during its very first year of existence, while she has serious suspicion that the creators are doing much better, because there are more links leading to their websites than to her website... is that so? I hope not, because that would be nothing but shallow jealousy.
I'm on the other hand surprised, that Leo isn't spending his time on something much more profitable... as you know, skills like programming, scripting, building websites, plug-ins are very well paid these days. Yet he spends time on something valuable for hundreds of artists in the community. Paid PRO plug-in and voluntary links to SYS or Leo's website... to me it looks like a very fair business model if we really try to judge it as "businessmen". I can't honestly see what is wrong with it. :o
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And cascoly you keep lying about how i dropped out of networking early on. I never did. But you will to continue to perpetuate that one to make it seem like i dont get it.
Most people in the network have 10 links, plus a few more from keywords. You, cascoly, add every single person to your search page. Same with ajt. That means you have at least 10 people in your network PLUS links to every single person who builds a site. Thats up to what, 250, 300 people now? Is that not a correct statement? Therefore you have more benefits than most do in the networking department. Correct? Therefore you and some others will do way better than most others. Thats how the whole internet scheme works. I could build a site like you did and do the same thing you are doing, of course. Is the average photographer going to do that? No. Therefore a few in the network are benefitting much more than others because of the increased search traffic and links. It is to a few of your's benefit to downplay that fact and keep recruiting people so you can keep building traffic to your site. Meanwhile, those of us who believed that being part of the network with 10 or so links would have equal benefits, and that just isnt so. Thats what people building sites need to understand. The way to drive traffic to your site is with massive amounts of links. Having one or two thousand images and networking with ten or so people is probably not going to be enough.
You guys sound a lot like lobo at istock. Only good things can be said about SY, otherwise the person saying the not so good things is a lying, slanderous, unprofessional. ::)
I have every right to express my opinion and say what i want and what i think to be true about this subject or any other. Everyone has a right to build a site and test it themselves. Everyone has a right to present an opposing view, whether others like it or not. You guys dont get to bully me into not saying what i think.
I have said it, and i will continue to post if and when i feel like i have something to say. Until Leaf bans me. This forum has always been the place to come to freely express views, whether negative or positive. And yet here are some of you trying to change that, now that you have a stake in something. When we were all griping about istock, this was a good place to speak, because we couldnt have our opinions censored. Now you want to censor and discredit anyone who expresses what they believe to be true. It can be done on the SY forum, thats why it was created....
months ago you made it clear you didn't want to be part of the network and I told you at the time I had removed you
no one has been trying to ban or censor you --
as always, i'll defend anyone's right to their opinions - but you DONT have a right to your FACTS when they are demonstrably false or misleading
you're confusing 2 very different things when you repeatedly whine about some who have more links than you do/did -- ajt & I maintain global lists of the networks (how else are we supposed to do a global search of all images?) for our personal sym sites we have 10 links, just like everyone else - as you mention you could have done the same thing, but you chose not to ; next, you clearly don't understand what a BACKLINK is -- when I link to all those other sites I give THEM backlinks - I get NONE from any of them unless they link to my site.
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.....Webmaster Tools is still showing the top three sites linked to me:
symbiostock.info
symbiostock.org
symbiostockphoto.com
I have already informed those who had me in their network weeks ago that I was disconnecting. If anyone else in the network is linked to my site, please feel free to use the slot for someone else.
In order for me to get a good read on what is successful and what is not, I must be TOTALLY disconnected from Symbiostock. That includes all the links you all have to my site.
....
you just don't get it! those links on sym.com & org are because YOU PUT THEM there when you posted with your website as part of a signature. that's how backlinks work!
the links from sy,...info are historical and take time tio decay
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Signs of desperation. Too bad, SY started out a good idea.
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I’m away from all of this for two or three months to finish publishing a book and I come back to all of this! I’m not going to add fuel to the fire but I am going to add my opinion. If you choose to disagree with it, go right ahead, but I am not going to reply.
Firstly, let me say I am not bashing anyone or kissing up to anyone either. So if you take offense to anything I am about to say, you are just looking to stir and this pot has its lid on tightly!
Let’s get to the facts shall we? One person, whom we shall for argument sake call “Leo”, sits down to write software to benefit everyone who makes use of it, gives it away for free (other than a few plugins that you DON’T have to buy), largely gives up his livelihood to doggedly stick with this project, puts up with all the negativity, and some people have an issue with this? How much of a discount can you expect on FREE? These are the facts. Put whatever spin you want on it.
Yes, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but unless it is well-informed, and based on easily digestible fact, no one will take you seriously on purely negative opinions. So here is my opinion on SymbioStock: I’ve not sold a single file YET, and yet ... I have not only high hopes but extensive plans for my site in the future. I just haven’t had enough time thus far. I’ve decided to make a life out of being an author and it takes a lot of my time.
If Leo ever actually makes a profit from SymbioStock it will takes years before he sees any financial reward from it. This is also fact. If you don’t know these facts then you are ignorant. There is no polite way to put it. Go inform yourself on the facts before arguing.
As with any business, it takes time to grow and to mature into a well-known and respected brand. Anyone who believes they will put up three pictures of their hamster and by morning they will have exceeded the profits of an existing agency is a fool. No such promise has ever been made by anyone associated with SymbioStock.
What you actually get is a platform for YOU to build YOUR own business and for YOU to promote and grow it! If you have no customers, I’m afraid that SymbioStock is not going to be much help in finding you any unless you are prepared to work hard and learn. I’m finding that the people who have the most negative opinions are those that have contributed the least and have yet expected the most.
Let me recap: you pretty much invest only in hosting and time and what you do with your site and your skills is of your own making. In many ways some not even related directly to photography, I am extremely grateful to the experience and knowledge I have gained by using SymbioStock. Then again, I WANTED to learn and that always makes the difference in the outcome.
There is an old saying (that probably doesn’t translate well into English) that a poor dancer blames his performance on a crooked dance floor.
Jo
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Amen, Jo, to absolutely everything you said.
BTW, I'm a writer too, currently working on my second novel. My time is divided between writing and photography. Neither one pays me back anything like what I put into them, but I do them both (in almost equal measure) for the joy of it.
Good luck with your book, and thanks so much for your contribution to this forum today. It was needed.
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Just when I was finally "sold" on the idea of creating my own SY site...
As it wasn't very clear for me, is Leo abandoning the project?
Is there someone else who will continue updating the code when needed (eg new versions of wordpress, or new versions of plugins)?
or adding new features when needed?
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Leo is absolutely not abandoning the project. He has just changed how he will communicate. In fact his is reworking the .com site so that it is more customer focused. I've had a few PM's from him in the last couple of days. Sounds like some pretty cool things are around the corner. Jo is right however about getting back what you put in. Symbiostock will probably not work for you if you treat it like an agency. It does require some love and time. If you are looking for a site that you can be proud of with potential for good sales in the future and are willing to be patient and give a reasonable amount of continued effort Symbiostock will probably be a good fit for you. If you want a quick way to make big sales without much work you are definitely looking in the wrong place.
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If you are looking for a site that you can be proud of with potential for good sales in the future and are willing to be patient and give a reasonable amount of continued effort Symbiostock will probably be a good fit for you.
Other reasons for doing this besides making money:
online backup of all your stock photos, no more worrying about losing/corrupting a hard drive
non-agency portfolio to show prospective customers, agencies, etc
never having to worry about "Orphan works" since you have easily found images with proper copyright
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Too bad you guys cant round up sales data on the effectiveness of the networking feature and seo as it relates to actual sales of images, the way you are rounding up bashers.
Too bad when an anonymous poll was put up on the SY forum (its probably gone by now because anything negative gets deleted) only 42 people responded and the majority of the respondents of that poll only had one or two sales so far.
Too bad the people who actually are selling wont share data, even when the sharing is anonymous. Let me make a prediction...that sales poll is going to skyrocket here in the next week or so!
Too bad it wasnt explained to those of us who were first builders of sites that in order for the networking to be effective at all, we would have to build second, third, fourth sites to realize any kind of seo benefit from that networking link. If anyone expects to get any benefit from just building a site and networking, why then they must be unprofessional, ignorant, lazy people who have crap images (images of course that sell well on other sites).
Thats my recap. :)
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Thanks chromaco & farbled for the clarification.
I'm patient and I know I'll have to build...
Thank you!
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[size=78%]Other reasons for doing this besides making money: [/size]
online backup of all your stock photos, no more worrying about losing/corrupting a hard drive
non-agency portfolio to show prospective customers, agencies, etc
never having to worry about "Orphan works" since you have easily found images with proper copyright
Those are excellent points and a good reason. But a person doesnt need a theme with networking features to do that. If the networking is superfluous unless you can take advantage of multiple sites and cross-linking, what is the point of all the extra code?
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Too bad you guys cant round up sales data on the effectiveness of the networking feature and seo as it relates to actual sales of images, the way you are rounding up bashers.
Too bad when an anonymous poll was put up on the SY forum (its probably gone by now because anything negative gets deleted) only 42 people responded and the majority of the respondents of that poll only had one or two sales so far.
Too bad the people who actually are selling wont share data, even when the sharing is anonymous. Let me make a prediction...that sales poll is going to skyrocket here in the next week or so!
Too bad it wasnt explained to those of us who were first builders of sites that in order for the networking to be effective at all, we would have to build second, third, fourth sites to realize any kind of seo benefit from that networking link. If anyone expects to get any benefit from just building a site and networking, why then they must be unprofessional, ignorant, lazy people who have crap images (images of course that sell well on other sites).
Thats my recap. :)
Sorry Cathy, but thats the biggest rubbish I have read in a while.
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Too bad you guys cant round up sales data on the effectiveness of the networking feature and seo as it relates to actual sales of images, the way you are rounding up bashers.
Too bad when an anonymous poll was put up on the SY forum (its probably gone by now because anything negative gets deleted) only 42 people responded and the majority of the respondents of that poll only had one or two sales so far.
Too bad the people who actually are selling wont share data, even when the sharing is anonymous. Let me make a prediction...that sales poll is going to skyrocket here in the next week or so!
Too bad it wasnt explained to those of us who were first builders of sites that in order for the networking to be effective at all, we would have to build second, third, fourth sites to realize any kind of seo benefit from that networking link. If anyone expects to get any benefit from just building a site and networking, why then they must be unprofessional, ignorant, lazy people who have crap images (images of course that sell well on other sites).
Thats my recap. :)
Sorry Cathy, but thats the biggest rubbish I have read in a while.
Of course it is! It wasnt a few weeks back when you thought the same thing, but now you have kissed and made up and all is well.
Maybe you could explain what you think is rubbish and why, rather than just saying its rubbish. I would really like to know specifically which part is rubbish.
:)
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Too bad when an anonymous poll was put up on the SY forum (its probably gone by now because anything negative gets deleted) only 42 people responded and the majority of the respondents of that poll only had one or two sales so far.
FYI, the poll is still available @ http://www.symbiostock.org/community/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=973 (http://www.symbiostock.org/community/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=973)
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Too bad when an anonymous poll was put up on the SY forum (its probably gone by now because anything negative gets deleted) only 42 people responded and the majority of the respondents of that poll only had one or two sales so far.
FYI, the poll is still available @ [url]http://www.symbiostock.org/community/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=973[/url] ([url]http://www.symbiostock.org/community/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=973[/url])
Cool!
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Too bad you guys cant round up sales data on the effectiveness of the networking feature and seo as it relates to actual sales of images, the way you are rounding up bashers.
Too bad when an anonymous poll was put up on the SY forum (its probably gone by now because anything negative gets deleted) only 42 people responded and the majority of the respondents of that poll only had one or two sales so far.
Too bad the people who actually are selling wont share data, even when the sharing is anonymous. Let me make a prediction...that sales poll is going to skyrocket here in the next week or so!
Too bad it wasnt explained to those of us who were first builders of sites that in order for the networking to be effective at all, we would have to build second, third, fourth sites to realize any kind of seo benefit from that networking link. If anyone expects to get any benefit from just building a site and networking, why then they must be unprofessional, ignorant, lazy people who have crap images (images of course that sell well on other sites).
Thats my recap. :)
Sorry Cathy, but thats the biggest rubbish I have read in a while.
Of course it is! It wasnt a few weeks back when you thought the same thing, but now you have kissed and made up and all is well.
Maybe you could explain what you think is rubbish and why, rather than just saying its rubbish. I would really like to know specifically which part is rubbish.
:)
You are so on a mission to badmouth SYS. I had 3 valid complaints and they have been sorted, non of them had to do with a lack of sales and conspiracy theories on networking.
All the stuff in bold is rubbish, the poll is still there, no one can guarantee any sales, I never expected to make any sales and yet I did. You expect people to be con artists because of your own conspiracies which turned reality in your own head. Agencies sell more images because they spend millions on marketing. You dont need to build multiple sites to get a better SEO ranking.
You can create backlinks to plaster your URL all over the internet, here is one now http://semmickphoto.com (http://semmickphoto.com)
And here is one for free for you, I dont even want money for this backlink http://cathyslifestockphotos.com/ (http://cathyslifestockphotos.com/)
You are accusing people but I have no clue what you are talking about. Sorry, but its true. Stop your conspiracies and read up how stuff works.
http://computer.howstuffworks.com/internet/basics/internet.htm (http://computer.howstuffworks.com/internet/basics/internet.htm)
And thats another back link for How Stuff Works dot Com
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Thanks chromaco & farbled for the clarification.
I'm patient and I know I'll have to build...
I'll add a +1 to Jo's post - and note that my own experience has been that I have had a few sales (of which I get everything but the PayPal fees) and I have only been working on my site since September.
I had a bit of a learning curve with WordPress because I wanted to customize how things looked a bit and I am still uploading images (because I want to work on the SEO with such things as avoiding duplicate titles and cleaning up keywords where I now know better than I did when I first processed the files). I've been trying to understand things like Google authorship (which I wrote a blog about (http://www.digitalbristles.com/image-authorship-with-google/)) because I think that clearly associating our names with our work is important and something the agencies don't take any interest in (obviously!)
I didn't have to do all these other things - beyond installing WordPress, getting PayPal hooked up and uploading images - but I wanted to because I very much want an alternative to the agencies. I was part of WarmPicture (Dan Padovana's collective) which was a good site (built on kTools which I wouldn't consider for my own site based on the WarmPicture experience) but which wasn't able to get any traction - although I did get sales and Dan worked incredibly hard to get things off the ground.
If the agencies hadn't turned from being partners to basically exploiting contributors as soon as the agencies got big enough I probably wouldn't be considering my own site, but I have to play in the sandbox I am in, not the one I wish I were in :) I think that some flavor of independence is the way to get a truly sustainable business and believe that Symbiostock has a great shot at being that. Like so many startups, you keep your day job while you build the new thing - so I haven't left Shutterstock and dreamstime, 123rf, PhotoDune, etc. just yet.
I'm not building more sites than my own; the sales post on the Symbiostock forums has not been deleted - people can obviously delete their own posts but I've no idea where this "anything negative gets deleted" comes from; I honestly pay little attention to the MSG sales poll as it doesn't tell me much beyond what I already know - Shutterstock sells more than Dreamstime.
Everyone's experience with Symbiostock will be a little different - that's part of what makes this work. It's not a one size fits all setup and the looseness of the association is what allows site owners to make each site their own - how it looks, what prices to charge, what works to make exclusive (or even just to promote as some do with their Alamy or Stocksy work). As an open source WordPress project, you have access to everything that has built your site so you or anyone else can work on it if you chose to.
For the most part the tempest in a tea cup is just that. If you're ready to start a Symbiostock site, now's a fine time :)
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:)
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Thanks for the link, Ron! I know you did it to be a smarta$$ tho. :)
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What you actually get is a platform for YOU to build YOUR own business and for YOU to promote and grow it! If you have no customers, I’m afraid that SymbioStock is not going to be much help in finding you any unless you are prepared to work hard and learn. I’m finding that the people who have the most negative opinions are those that have contributed the least and have yet expected the most.
Surely the point of Symbiostock is that mutual traffic sharing ? That was what I thought.
If you are building a standalone site which has no customers so far and which does not share traffic then what would be the advantages of Symbiostock vs much better looking paid platforms such as SquareSpace which also include credit card processing and which automatically resize on iPhones, tablets etc. What are the advantages of Symbiostock apart from it being free software ? Given the low cost of offerings such as SquareSpace, does it make much difference whether the actual software is free ?
I still don't really get it. I thought I understood it as a thing which would look like a single platform. Surely the only point is if the customer sees it as a single thing. With one login, one search and one lot of payment details. If it is lots of independent sites then surely there are better and more mature platforms.
Another question. Does a Symbiostock user also have to be their own sys admin ? What about monitoring security and fixing vulnerabilities when you are on vacation or sleeping ?
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Everyone's experience with Symbiostock will be a little different
Given what I have read over the past couple of weeks I have completely changed my mind about Symbiostock. And I have been involved with previous Open Source projects.
I predict that it will end up orphaned. The reason being that it has too few users and too few potential users - and therefore many too few developers. Partly because there is no substantial business to be built around it the way it currently exists.
Sorry to say that. I know that this post will get voted down out of existence for me saying this. Hey - I hope I am wrong but Open Source projects need more than good will to survive and prosper.
The way to stop its inevitable decline would be to address the glaring issues. Particularly in terms of the way in which the software is developed, how it seems to users and the lack of legal safeguards.
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Get a symbistock site and find out the facts, instead of basing judgement forum comments.
No one left Symbiostock, in fact more people came on board to help Leo with the project. LOL
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Too bad you guys cant round up sales data on the effectiveness of the networking feature and seo as it relates to actual sales of images, the way you are rounding up bashers.
To reduce Symbiostock to the networking feature is not only of incredible shortsightedness but shows how you're acting in bad faith.
The common search engine feature alone reduces to nothing the relevancy of the networking. THAT is something completely original when compared to the networking and an incredibly powerful tool.
Plus, we're having in our site much better results with google than we had during several years with Smugmug and Zenfolio and we still have a fraction of the images we had there and spent a fraction of what those solutions have cost us..
Is this it because the networking? Is it because other reasons that could be accomplished with other themes and plugins? I don't know and I don't care because none of the options have a centralized search engine, and none were meant and dedicated to stock photographers. Especially because none of them have as an objective to try and change something in this industry.
Your questions have been answered multiple times. I now believe that you're consciously set to destroy Symbiostock and damage all the work hundreds of people have done in their sites. You should be ashamed of what you're trying to do.
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The way to stop its inevitable decline would be to address the glaring issues. Particularly in terms of the way in which the software is developed, how it seems to users and the lack of legal safeguards.
Please explain which legal issues you mean? I write my own terms and conditions and my own rf contract. Do you mean that someone else should?
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The way to stop its inevitable decline would be to address the glaring issues. Particularly in terms of the way in which the software is developed, how it seems to users and the lack of legal safeguards.
Please explain which legal issues you mean? I write my own terms and conditions and my own rf contract. Do you mean that someone else should?
Symbiostock is no different from running Smugmug or Zenfolio or Ktools when it comes down to legal issues. People fail to understand that. Unless they get a symbiostock site you will have these comments from people looking outside in, instead of inside out
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Please explain which legal issues you mean? I write my own terms and conditions and my own rf contract. Do you mean that someone else should?
The legal side of the network in general (the sites typically explicitly state that they are part of a joint network) has not been worked out or explored. Symbiostock does not employ any sort of legal team to research these sorts of potential issues. It seems as if nobody legal or financial has gone over the whole thing to look for potential legal or fiscal mutual issues. Most Open Source projects employ at least some sort of legal and financical advice.
Symbiostock presents itself as a single thing. But all of the sites have different T&C. And some of the sites do not conform to international tax law. For example there are sites which do not collect TVA/VAT from EU buyers - or explain their policy. Or they do not issue proper tax receipts detailing whether or not TVA has been deducted. Legitimate buyers need those receipts at end of year.
Many of the sites are running on self written contracts. Nobody does that in business. Are you responsible if a search from your site links to content on another site which is not doing the tax right ? What if the site your search links to is selling stolen content ?
The whole thing is a great big legal question mark. Because nobody has bothered to put up any money to pay for it. OK the software is free. But there is always much more to any thing than one aspect of it being free.
It's a great project but it needs funding and it needs to be properly established otherwise potential buyers need to treat it with caution.
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I'm pulling the plug on my site as I write this (running a final backup then putting up a "temporarily down" page). I have no idea what I'm going to do with the site, but right now it's not fully functional after HostMonster torpedoed it with a PHP upgrade that broke the whole site. I got it back up and running but with errors all over the place.
It's too much work and trouble for not enough gain. I've been down this road before with self-hosted sites, they end up * up more time than they're worth.
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Symbiostock is no different from running Smugmug or Zenfolio or Ktools when it comes down to legal issues.
That is not a legal opinion.
For example, do the users of those other platforms similarly advertise themselves as being part of single joint network ?
Don't get me wrong. I think Symbiostock has the potential to be amazing. In 2014 predictions thread, I thought it would be one of the big stories of 2014. But the way it is currently set up that story is going to be the story of how it fell apart because nobody could be bothered or understood the need to address the big issues. And the users ended up arguing with each other and never selling much.
The thing needs funding and professional management. Otherwise it is just a bit of free software. And any site or network is about much more than just the software.
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The legal side of the network in general (the sites typically explicitly state that they are part of a joint network) has not been worked out or explored. Symbiostock does not employ any sort of legal team to research these sorts of potential issues. It seems as if nobody legal or financial has gone over the whole thing to look for potential legal or fiscal mutual issues. Most Open Source projects employ at least some sort of legal and financial advice.
Symbiostock presents itself as a single thing. But all of the sites have different T&C. And some of the sites do not conform to international tax law. For example there are sites which do not collect TVA/VAT from EU buyers - or explain their policy. Or they do not issue proper tax receipts detailing whether or not TVA has been deducted. Legitimate buyers need those receipts at end of year.
Many of the sites are running on self written contracts. Nobody does that in business. Are you responsible if a search from your site links to content on another site which is not doing the tax right ? What if the site your search links to is selling stolen content ?
The whole thing is a great big legal question mark. Because nobody has bothered to put up any money to pay for it. OK the software is free. But there is always much more to any thing than one aspect of it being free.
It's a great project but it needs funding and it needs to be properly established otherwise potential buyers need to treat it with caution.
I would think that the legal side would be Leo stating that the platform is open sourced and is, as they say, buyer (or in this case user) beware. If there are tax issues on a single site, that's completely up to the site owner, not the network. Much like any other WP theme.
As far as people saying they network together, really I don't see how anything else is needed. I think most Sym sites use the term "network" in the same paragraph that they mostly say "independent". I'm unsure what issues could arise where there is liability to someone hosting a "network hub" kind of site. It really just displays links and search results for the most part.
Re: linking to other sites. I specifically research and choose which sites I link to. Does google guarantee what turns up in their search results? I do see what you mean, but I don't agree. If people want to run a business from their website, it is up to them to do so responsibly and follow the laws of their country. Not the creator of the software or a search aggregator-style site. I can't really control what ads appear in my adwords for example.
Should the Symbiostock (network) turn into an agency-style kind of place, where it solicits buyers, does it's own marketing etc, then yes, I could see where, when it makes money for itself, then legal stuff would be necessary for it to cover itself from liability. I.e if they took a commission for membership/sales, etc.
I agree with you that there is a lot of potential for people to create whatever they see as a perfect opportunity (site, network, agency, etc). That's the beauty of open source. They are all possible, separate or in conjunction with each other. :)
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And in the middle of all of this we've just made our first sale.
Someone came to our site from google and after some browsing licensed a image in the small size giving us 4.99usd.
No it's not a fortune but we were found through google and if the image was downloaded from a microstock site we would have won from 1 to 3usd.
I'm not going to convince myself that we'll be able to cut loose the agencies any time soon, if at any time at all but this shows that Symbiostock has the goods to work with cooperation, more members and commitment.
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And in the middle of all of this we've just made our first sale.
Someone came to our site from google and after some browsing licensed a image in the small size giving us 4.99usd.
No it's not a fortune but we were found through google and if the image was downloaded from a microstock site we would have won from 1 to 3usd.
I'm not going to convince myself that we'll be able to cut loose the agencies any time soon, if at any time at all but this shows that Symbiostock has the goods to work with cooperation, more members and commitment.
Congratulations!
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If people want to run a business from their website, it is up to them to do so responsibly and follow the laws of their country.
For it to be safe for buyers to use they (the site owners) also need to ensure that the site conforms with the laws which exist where the buyer is based.
Every site which is not doing stuff right undermines every other site when those sites are part of a network. When you all say that you are a part of a thing the reputation of the whole thing depends upon the reputation of each constituent part. I cannot think of another way of trying to express this.
The tax thing is just one example.
ETA: I think this is potentially a great project. I find it bizarre that some people seem to be so negative about setting it up on a proper financial and legal footing.
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If people want to run a business from their website, it is up to them to do so responsibly and follow the laws of their country.
For it to be safe for buyers to use they (the site owners) also need to ensure that the site conforms with the laws which exist where the buyer is based.
Every site which is not doing stuff right undermines every other site when those sites are part of a network. When you all say that you are a part of a thing the reputation of the whole thing depends upon the reputation of each constituent part. I cannot think of another way of trying to express this.
The tax thing is just one example.
ETA: I think this is potentially a great project. I find it bizarre that some people seem to be so negative about setting it up on a proper financial and legal footing.
Non of what you say has anything to do specificity with Symbiostock or even WP, that goes for every single site that is being created on the internet. Symbiostock is no different from that. So I find it bizarre that you keep hammering on it, when people have explained it a few times.
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If people want to run a business from their website, it is up to them to do so responsibly and follow the laws of their country.
For it to be safe for buyers to use they (the site owners) also need to ensure that the site conforms with the laws which exist where the buyer is based.
Every site which is not doing stuff right undermines every other site when those sites are part of a network. When you all say that you are a part of a thing the reputation of the whole thing depends upon the reputation of each constituent part. I cannot think of another way of trying to express this.
The tax thing is just one example.
ETA: I think this is potentially a great project. I find it bizarre that some people seem to be so negative about setting it up on a proper financial and legal footing.
I don't believe that, no more than when Ktools or OpenCart advertises their best customer sites. I only have to ensure that I follow the laws of my country that I am selling things from. I do not have to account for every country that may potentially have a customer for it. I simply think you're putting the legal emphasis on the wrong parties. That's not negative, that's simply disagreeing with your opinion.
You're right that the reputation depends somewhat on the members, however, I also think that too much control defeats the whole purpose of this project. Next thing will be someone will say there is a quality restriction, or a price restriction, or everyone must do this but not that.
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And in the middle of all of this we've just made our first sale.
Someone came to our site from google and after some browsing licensed a image in the small size giving us 4.99usd.
No it's not a fortune but we were found through google and if the image was downloaded from a microstock site we would have won from 1 to 3usd.
I'm not going to convince myself that we'll be able to cut loose the agencies any time soon, if at any time at all but this shows that Symbiostock has the goods to work with cooperation, more members and commitment.
Congratulations!
Thanks! We have done no marketing at all. No adds, no mailing, no FB or G+ activity or any other type of promotion. Since we are at a third of our portfolio we did not spend any effort on that front.
Having a simple site, relatively good looking, with a competitive pricing and visible to google seems to work.
Tomorrow I'll probably send a mail to the buyer thanking and directing him to the Symbiostock search engine. He may or may not find other images he needs there, but if instead of +200 sites there were 400 or 500 the chances that he would return would be greater. That's why it's important to increase the offer of images and number of participants.
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Please explain which legal issues you mean? I write my own terms and conditions and my own rf contract. Do you mean that someone else should?
The legal side of the network in general (the sites typically explicitly state that they are part of a joint network) has not been worked out or explored. Symbiostock does not employ any sort of legal team to research these sorts of potential issues. It seems as if nobody legal or financial has gone over the whole thing to look for potential legal or fiscal mutual issues. Most Open Source projects employ at least some sort of legal and financical advice.
Symbiostock presents itself as a single thing. But all of the sites have different T&C. And some of the sites do not conform to international tax law. For example there are sites which do not collect TVA/VAT from EU buyers - or explain their policy. Or they do not issue proper tax receipts detailing whether or not TVA has been deducted. Legitimate buyers need those receipts at end of year.
Many of the sites are running on self written contracts. Nobody does that in business. Are you responsible if a search from your site links to content on another site which is not doing the tax right ? What if the site your search links to is selling stolen content ?
The whole thing is a great big legal question mark. Because nobody has bothered to put up any money to pay for it. OK the software is free. But there is always much more to any thing than one aspect of it being free.
It's a great project but it needs funding and it needs to be properly established otherwise potential buyers need to treat it with caution.
Holy cr@p! ::)
If everyone in the past had approached new ideas the way bunhill does we'd still sit starving in cold caves pondering the legal implications of starting a fire and hunting one of those tasty mammoths out there ;D
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And in the middle of all of this we've just made our first sale.
Someone came to our site from google and after some browsing licensed a image in the small size giving us 4.99usd.
No it's not a fortune but we were found through google and if the image was downloaded from a microstock site we would have won from 1 to 3usd.
I'm not going to convince myself that we'll be able to cut loose the agencies any time soon, if at any time at all but this shows that Symbiostock has the goods to work with cooperation, more members and commitment.
You bolded google. Your sale came from a google search, not an SY search. True you have a SY site but unless you can attribute the sale as coming directly from networking with a SY site, you just as easily could have gotten that sale from using other software.
The pattern of sales i noticed for most people was that 1 or 2 sales came early on, then stopped. Notice i said most. Not all. :)
I would love to see real, verifiable data that could predict trends, etc. for sales, but i understand that takes work. Seems like something could have been accomplished in that regard over the past 10 months. That would be the biggest endorsement for the success of SY. And so that opens a door for one of you all to say why didnt i do it? The answer is because i dont have access to those figures. Since leo has stated on several occasions something like, "well, the people that are selling dont want to come forward for fear of being ripped, but i can tell you that some people are selling on a regular, daily basis." No, not his exact words, but the same drift.
Not exactly useful data for anyone trying to decide if its worth it.
The sale i made did not come from a search of the network, but from google also. My inclination was to skip the networking, get rid of the theme hassles Like Ember Mike mentioned, and just keep it simpler. I think catering to what google wants to see is a better way to go. (As much as i hate that thought, too.)
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And in the middle of all of this we've just made our first sale.
Someone came to our site from google and after some browsing licensed a image in the small size giving us 4.99usd.
No it's not a fortune but we were found through google and if the image was downloaded from a microstock site we would have won from 1 to 3usd.
I'm not going to convince myself that we'll be able to cut loose the agencies any time soon, if at any time at all but this shows that Symbiostock has the goods to work with cooperation, more members and commitment.
You bolded google. Your sale came from a google search, not an SY search. True you have a SY site but unless you can attribute the sale as coming directly from networking with a SY site, you just as easily could have gotten that sale from using other software.
The pattern of sales i noticed for most people was that 1 or 2 sales came early on, then stopped. Notice i said most. Not all. :)
I would love to see real, verifiable data that could predict trends, etc. for sales, but i understand that takes work. Seems like something could have been accomplished in that regard over the past 10 months. That would be the biggest endorsement for the success of SY. And so that opens a door for one of you all to say why didnt i do it? The answer is because i dont have access to those figures. Since leo has stated on several occasions something like, "well, the people that are selling dont want to come forward for fear of being ripped, but i can tell you that some people are selling on a regular, daily basis." No, not his exact words, but the same drift.
Not exactly useful data for anyone trying to decide if its worth it.
The sale i made did not come from a search of the network, but from google also. My inclination was to skip the networking, get rid of the theme hassles Like Ember Mike mentioned, and just keep it simpler. I think catering to what google wants to see is a better way to go. (As much as i hate that thought, too.)
No. Symbiostock is coded to have a good SEO footprint. Other WP sites might not have a good SEO and then images wont be found. Thats where Symbiostock is strong, the SEO is good. Your new WP plugin might have buried your images because of poor SEO. Not saying it is, it might. The fact that people find his site through google says it all.
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No. Symbiostock is coded to have a good SEO footprint. Other WP sites might not have a good SEO and then images wont be found. Thats where Symbiostock is strong, the SEO is good. Your new WP plugin might have buried your images because of poor SEO. Not saying it is, it might. The fact that people find his site through google says it all.
I am using Yoast SEO plugin, just like on SY. My images are already being indexed by google, just like on SY. My images aren't buried, they are getting found. I do check searches all the time from other computers besides my own. So far, I don't see that as an issue. My issue is I don't have more hours in the day to get new images up and the rest of the images I already have shot up!
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I'm probably going to regret jumping in here to try and help but...
I've seen some comments of no sales. Direct sales are difficult no matter what the system is. Google likes Wordpress so Symbiostock has that benefit by default. You need to have the right technology, content, and sellable images to get traffic and sales. If you're missing any or all of those then your chances decrease.
About the content, I checked out a few sites and they have stuff like Abe Lincoln Photography as page and gallery titles. That kind of stuff will only help people find you by name. Which I'm guessing nobody is looking for your name. If you want sales/traffic it may be a good idea to learn SEO. And I don't mean tricks to game Google. Producing good relevant optimized content so more of the right users can find you. From what I remember Photoshelter's SEO guide and some of their other guides are decent primers. Just sayin.
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No. Symbiostock is coded to have a good SEO footprint. Other WP sites might not have a good SEO and then images wont be found. Thats where Symbiostock is strong, the SEO is good. Your new WP plugin might have buried your images because of poor SEO. Not saying it is, it might. The fact that people find his site through google says it all.
I am using Yoast SEO plugin, just like on SY. My images are already being indexed by google, just like on SY. My images aren't buried, they are getting found. I do check searches all the time from other computers besides my own. So far, I don't see that as an issue. My issue is I don't have more hours in the day to get new images up and the rest of the images I already have shot up!
Ugh. Yoast plugin has nothing to do with the coding of the theme. The symbiostock site is strong in SEO on its own. It seems no one can explain the benefits to you, so I call it quits too.
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No. Symbiostock is coded to have a good SEO footprint. Other WP sites might not have a good SEO and then images wont be found. Thats where Symbiostock is strong, the SEO is good. Your new WP plugin might have buried your images because of poor SEO. Not saying it is, it might. The fact that people find his site through google says it all.
I am using Yoast SEO plugin, just like on SY. My images are already being indexed by google, just like on SY. My images aren't buried, they are getting found. I do check searches all the time from other computers besides my own. So far, I don't see that as an issue. My issue is I don't have more hours in the day to get new images up and the rest of the images I already have shot up!
Ugh. Yoast plugin has nothing to do with the coding of the theme. The symbiostock site is strong in SEO on its own. It seems no one can explain the benefits to you, so I call it quits too.
OK. But I don't believe there is any better coding in the SY theme than there is other software. If it were that strong, wouldn't more people be doing better? And by people I mean people with way better ports and way larger ports than mine. I haven't seen any reports of that happening. No one wants to talk. Even anonymously. There is no proof, we are asked to just "believe".
I just did an incognito search for one of my images in google and it is in the third row. Some images fair better, some fair worse, depending on the category. I am ok with that. Mind you, I don't even have 200 images up yet. And its only been about 3 weeks.
The best proof to make people believe in the benefits of SY is to see sales results. Without that, I certainly can't believe in the benefits anymore. I did, at one time. When another year has gone by and most everyone in the network is selling multiple images on a daily benefit, I might believe again.
Thanks for the reminder about the Photoshelter SEO guide, PaulieWalnuts. I need to go back and reread that.
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No. Symbiostock is coded to have a good SEO footprint. Other WP sites might not have a good SEO and then images wont be found. Thats where Symbiostock is strong, the SEO is good. Your new WP plugin might have buried your images because of poor SEO. Not saying it is, it might. The fact that people find his site through google says it all.
I am using Yoast SEO plugin, just like on SY. My images are already being indexed by google, just like on SY. My images aren't buried, they are getting found. I do check searches all the time from other computers besides my own. So far, I don't see that as an issue. My issue is I don't have more hours in the day to get new images up and the rest of the images I already have shot up!
Cathy, I just want to point out an example of something that could use some tweaking. Hopefully this helps.
On your animals collection your page title is "cathyslifestockphotos.comAnimals Archives - cathyslifestockphotos.com". Search engines use this to index your pages. It may be better to have something like "Stock Photos of Animals and Pictures of Horses | Cathy's Photography"
The title on your Horse with Halter page is exactly that. Horse with Halter. You could probably add another nine words to that or use a auto-suffix like "Stock Photos and Animal Pictures" so the title becomes "Horse with Halter | Stock Photos and Animal Pictures".
More relevant content = more traffic.
Just trying to help.
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If everyone in the past had approached new ideas the way bunhill does we'd still sit starving in cold caves pondering the legal implications of starting a fire and hunting one of those tasty mammoths out there ;D
Look at it like this: If the Symbiostock Network is not an organisation then what is it ?
IMO there are aspects of Symbiostock which make it potentially an entity in itself. Or else what is the Symbiostock Network ? If it is an entity then it has potential legal responsibilities. And it is being advertised as that. Symbiostock is an organisation without an organisation.
An organisation does not have to "ponder legal implications'. You pay a legal team to do that for you. They draw up the contracts and check the wording you use. Your accountants look at the financial side - both from your perspective and from the customers'. That's what you have to do in business.
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No. Symbiostock is coded to have a good SEO footprint. Other WP sites might not have a good SEO and then images wont be found. Thats where Symbiostock is strong, the SEO is good. Your new WP plugin might have buried your images because of poor SEO. Not saying it is, it might. The fact that people find his site through google says it all.
I am using Yoast SEO plugin, just like on SY. My images are already being indexed by google, just like on SY. My images aren't buried, they are getting found. I do check searches all the time from other computers besides my own. So far, I don't see that as an issue. My issue is I don't have more hours in the day to get new images up and the rest of the images I already have shot up!
Cathy, I just want to point out an example of something that could use some tweaking. Hopefully this helps.
On your animals collection your page title is "cathyslifestockphotos.comAnimals Archives - cathyslifestockphotos.com". Search engines use this to index your pages. It may be better to have something like "Stock Photos of Animals and Pictures of Horses | Cathy's Photography"
The title on your Horse with Halter page is exactly that. Horse with Halter. You could probably add another nine words to that or use a auto-suffix like "Stock Photos and Animal Pictures" so the title becomes "Horse with Halter | Stock Photos and Animal Pictures".
More relevant content = more traffic.
Just trying to help.
Thanks for the tip Paulie. I will check those out.
Edit: great tip. Just changed a couple. Thanks again!
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Those are just examples so you may want to do a bit of research on what keywords and phrases to use. Google has a keyword planner tool that tells you what keywords and phases people use and the amount they're searched for.
So as an example, maybe Animal Stock Photos is searched for 1,000 times per month but Horse Stock Photos is searched for 5,000 times per month. Both are relevant but the horse version gets searched for more often and may be better to use in your content.
https://adwords.google.com/ko/KeywordPlanner (https://adwords.google.com/ko/KeywordPlanner)
EDIT: And if you want to see the content Google is looking for, simply do a search. Google puts search words in bold so you can see it's looking for the search words and phrases in the title, description, overall page content, and URL. If you optimize all that content you should (hopefully) get better results.
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Look at it like this: If the Symbiostock Network is not an organisation then what is it ?
Join the network and find the answer, Bunhill
IMO there are aspects of Symbiostock which make it potentially an entity in itself. Or else what is the Symbiostock Network ? If it is an entity then it has potential legal responsibilities. And it is being advertised as that. Symbiostock is an organisation without an organisation.
An organisation does not have to "ponder legal implications'. You pay a legal team to do that for you. They draw up the contracts and check the wording you use. Your accountants look at the financial side - both from your perspective and from the customers'. That's what you have to do in business.
My point still stands: You can't do any new business at all if you want to be legally absolutely safe. There's a thing called "good faith", however. Acting in "good faith", of course, is no bullet-proof legal protection and won't convince paranoids.
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Look at it like this: If the Symbiostock Network is not an organisation then what is it ?
IMO there are aspects of Symbiostock which make it potentially an entity in itself. Or else what is the Symbiostock Network ? If it is an entity then it has potential legal responsibilities. And it is being advertised as that. Symbiostock is an organisation without an organisation.
An organisation does not have to "ponder legal implications'. You pay a legal team to do that for you. They draw up the contracts and check the wording you use. Your accountants look at the financial side - both from your perspective and from the customers'. That's what you have to do in business.
I do understand where you're going with this, but the implication is that the "network" entity will start generating income in itself. And the only way I see it doing that is by charging a commission to the members. If/when that happens, I suspect many like me will opt out and simply use the platform as a standalone site, or as a closed network with other similar or complimentary sites.
I prefer to think of it like a farmer's market. I'm not responsible for anyone else's successes, failures, quality or prices, we just happen to be listed in the same places.
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Wow - first time back to the forum for a while and I see this!!
I've been a happy Symbio photography user from the beginning. I've sold:
3 @ $20
6 @ $3
2 @ $1
Did I make a profit taking hosting into account - no. Am I happy with progress on sales - could be better. Will I stick with it as I add the rest of my portfolio - hell, yes.
Steve
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Wow - first time back to the forum for a while and I see this!!
I've been a happy Symbio photography user from the beginning. I've sold:
3 @ $20
6 @ $3
2 @ $1
Did I make a profit taking hosting into account - no. Am I happy with progress on sales - could be better. Will I stick with it as I add the rest of my portfolio - hell, yes.
Steve
Thanks for sharing Steve. If you haven't already added your stats to the poll over at Symbiostock.org (http://www.symbiostock.org/community/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=973) please consider doing so. The poll is ongoing and allows changes so you can revise your vote if subsequent sales have moved you up a level.
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Were the sales direct results of the networking in SY or did the buyers come from a google search? If they cant be directly attributed to the networking of SY, then you may have gotten them using any software.
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Hi Cathy
Hard to say. I did some research from the last set of sales (1 person bought 3 images of Washington DC). I can see incoming visitors from both Google and Symbiostock.info, I can see a search from the home page for Washington DC, but I can't piece the flow together. I am sure it is probably possible to do that, but it would take some time. I don't see any incoming search terms from Google that have anything to do with Washington.
At the end of the day, I take the incoming links from wherever they come. I try to boost my web presence via my own blog, via Fine Art America, via this site, via Symbiostock, and people find me in one way or another. A couple of my purchases have been from people seeing an image on another site somewhere and emailing me. I see all that as positive and if this buyer happened to find Symbiostock.info and came that way, it is fine, if they came in another way, that is fine. I'm happy to have as broad a reach as I can.
Steve
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Hi Cathy
Hard to say. I did some research from the last set of sales (1 person bought 3 images of Washington DC). I can see incoming visitors from both Google and Symbiostock.info, I can see a search from the home page for Washington DC, but I can't piece the flow together. I am sure it is probably possible to do that, but it would take some time. I don't see any incoming search terms from Google that have anything to do with Washington.
At the end of the day, I take the incoming links from wherever they come. I try to boost my web presence via my own blog, via Fine Art America, via this site, via Symbiostock, and people find me in one way or another. A couple of my purchases have been from people seeing an image on another site somewhere and emailing me. I see all that as positive and if this buyer happened to find Symbiostock.info and came that way, it is fine, if they came in another way, that is fine. I'm happy to have as broad a reach as I can.
Steve
I understand Steve. Congrats on the sales!
From an analytical standpoint, it is always good to know what works and what doesnt, For instance, if i place $100 worth of adwords and cannot directly attribute sales to that money, its pointless to keep investing in it. I would be better off trying something else. Just my personal opinion, tho.
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From an analytical standpoint, it is always good to know what works and what doesnt, For instance, if i place $100 worth of adwords and cannot directly attribute sales to that money, its pointless to keep investing in it. I would be better off trying something else. Just my personal opinion, tho.
I agree - I did some paid adwords when I first started my stock blog. Not sure it ever did much good! I've concluded that the chance of someone who wants to buy an image seeing the right words in an adword is almost negligible - hence my focus now on getting my name, websites and images around.
Steve
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From an analytical standpoint, it is always good to know what works and what doesnt, For instance, if i place $100 worth of adwords and cannot directly attribute sales to that money, its pointless to keep investing in it. I would be better off trying something else. Just my personal opinion, tho.
I agree - I did some paid adwords when I first started my stock blog. Not sure it ever did much good! I've concluded that the chance of someone who wants to buy an image seeing the right words in an adword is almost negligible - hence my focus now on getting my name, websites and images around.
Steve
Yeah, i suppose adwords does well for some businesses and not much for others.
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[size=78%]Other reasons for doing this besides making money: [/size]
online backup of all your stock photos, no more worrying about losing/corrupting a hard drive
non-agency portfolio to show prospective customers, agencies, etc
never having to worry about "Orphan works" since you have easily found images with proper copyright
...... If the networking is superfluous unless you can take advantage of multiple sites and cross-linking, what is the point of all the extra code?
that's YOUR opinion, and not born out by FACTS -- networking doesn't require multiple sites (as has been explained to you at least 42 times now)
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Too bad when an anonymous poll was put up on the SY forum (its probably gone by now because anything negative gets deleted) only 42 people responded and the majority of the respondents of that poll only had one or two sales so far.
FYI, the poll is still available @ [url]http://www.symbiostock.org/community/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=973[/url] ([url]http://www.symbiostock.org/community/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=973[/url])
yep - unfortunately she doesn't bother to factcheck before posting; the poll is not unlike the polls here where only a few report their sales, compared to the total number of members.
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If you stop answering her she will go away!
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If you stop answering her she will go away!
perhaps, but unless someone refutes the imaginary statistics and outright lies and distortions, many other readers will think those problems are real. eg, there are over 170 sym sites now -- how many of these people are posting negative messages here or in the sym forums?
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If you stop answering her she will go away!
perhaps, but unless someone refutes the imaginary statistics and outright lies and distortions, many other readers will think those problems are real. eg, there are over 170 sym sites now -- how many of these people are posting negative messages here or in the sym forums?
There are a lot of smart people and semi developers starting up and running sites. If they had found a pyramid scheme or something amiss with the code or networking, they would have said something about it. There is 1 person accusing Symbiostock of being a pyramid scheme, there are 170 odd other people with a different experience.
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There are also many people who don't post their reservations for fear of getting the same treatment you are giving me. :) It's ok, I don't care, I'll take the hit. I think people should hear all sides of a story, not just the rosy, whitewashed side.
Go check the SY forum. Other people have posted their own doubts about the effectiveness of SY, even you Ron. From this thread:
http://www.symbiostock.org/community/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=973&start=15 (http://www.symbiostock.org/community/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=973&start=15)
I have 8 sales, I had between 1-3 sales per month but the last sale was Wed 18/12/2013 so I feel a little discouraged. Anyhoo, nothing I can do about it.
You are using the words pyramid scheme, not me. There are most definitely a few people in the SY network that are benefitting much more than the majority. Those who have multiple sites with forums, and contact sheet pages and all the other SEO tricks up their sleeve are going to do WAY better than the average person signing up for a site to sell their photos. That's just an SEO fact. Links in, links out = good. That's not a pyramid scheme.
Even when the conversation starts to shift back towards friendly, intelligent, reasonable talk in this thread, some of you are just going to continue on with the garbage. And you are calling me a troll. :)
If you stop answering her she will go away!
perhaps, but unless someone refutes the imaginary statistics and outright lies and distortions, many other readers will think those problems are real. eg, there are over 170 sym sites now -- how many of these people are posting negative messages here or in the sym forums?
No one has to believe me. I don't want anyone to. They can read for themselves the problems, lack of sales, and Leo's constant declaration of quitting the project...they can read here, they can read on the SY forum. I havent posted there in ages, so you can't blame me for what's going on there. In fact, one of Leos latest threats had nothing to do with me, but with some of you. I suggest that any lack of confidence in this project has more to do with that than it does with anything I say. You guys said it, I am just one out of 170. But even though I supported the project for almost 10 months, you are discounting my opinion now just because it doesnt agree with yours.
Maybe people think the problems are real because they really are. Not just because this liar and distorter and ignorant person is saying so. :) People are actually smart enough to read and research for themselves and come to their own conclusions.
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"People are actually smart enough to read and research for themselves and come to their own conclusions."
I certainly hope so! There is some really great information in this thread and some really misleading things too. Everyone who is reading this thread please take some time to find out the whole picture.
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"People are actually smart enough to read and research for themselves and come to their own conclusions."
I certainly hope so! There is some really great information in this thread and some really misleading things too. Everyone who is reading this thread please take some time to find out the whole picture.
I totally agree.
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Seriously Cathy, you are putting words in my mouth, even with the exact quote next to it. LOL. Whatever. You have yet to produce ANY proof of your accusations but still continue to ignore ALL explanations. Symbiostocks is OPEN to everyone, there are NO secrets.
You blame your lack of sales on whatever you can find, except yourself.
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Cathy, how many sales do you have with your new theme?
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There are a lot of smart people and semi developers starting up and running sites. If they had found a pyramid scheme or something amiss with the code or networking, they would have said something about it. There is 1 person accusing Symbiostock of being a pyramid scheme, there are 170 odd other people with a different experience.
:)
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There are also many people who don't post their reservations for fear of getting the same treatment you are giving me.
This shows how mentally disturbed you are.
ANYONE participating in the Symbiostock project that feared any kind of persecution, just needed to create a new account on MSG without any type of identification that could connect it to his/her site and speak freely. They could even create a new mail account so there would be no traces.
Any 10 year old knows this. So where are your frightened people? You're a psychiatric case with a sociopath personality that doesn't feel remorse in the damage you're making to hundreds of people contributing to this project.
But even though I supported the project for almost 10 months, you are discounting my opinion now just because it doesnt agree with yours.
Your only question have been answered tenths of time. If you don't believe in the answers, get over it. And just like you are not forced to agree with other, others are not forced to agree with you!!!!!!!! Is that hard to understand or are you still bent on brainwash people to agree with you?!
And you are not trying to discuss anything. What you're trying to do is to deliberately destroy Symbiostock based on a grudge and shallow envy and in total disregard with other people interests and that discredits you as a person and a business person.
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Cathy, how many sales do you have with your new theme?
I am willing to give the new theme at least 10 months, same as SY, to see if it equals or betters the results I got with SY. I will report my findings back, especially if I make two sales, because that will mean it works twice as well as SY. :) If I make 1 sale, it will still prove that the networking feature is irrelevant, because I made the same amount of sales without the networking feature. If I make 0 sales, but I am still selling my images on SS, then my conclusion will be that the competition in the search engines for an individual site is incredible. If my images are still selling on SS, it can't be because my images are crap, can it? Otherwise they wouldnt be selling there, either. And I havent uploaded anything new to SS in probably close to a year and I'm still getting payouts every month.
It's all research, Ron. Don't care if you or others believe it, or call me names, or whatever.
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There are also many people who don't post their reservations for fear of getting the same treatment you are giving me.
This shows how mentally disturbed you are.
ANYONE participating in the Symbiostock project that feared any kind of persecution, just needed to create a new account on MSG without any type of identification that could connect it to his/her site and speak freely. They could even create a new mail account so there would be no traces.
Any 10 year old knows this. So where are your frightened people? You're a psychiatric case with a sociopath personality that doesn't feel remorse in the damage you're making to hundreds of people contributing to this project.
But even though I supported the project for almost 10 months, you are discounting my opinion now just because it doesnt agree with yours.
Your only question have been answered tenths of time. If you don't believe in the answers, get over it. And just like you are not forced to agree with other, others are not forced to agree with you!!!!!!!! Is that hard to understand or are you still bent on brainwash people to agree with you?!
And you are not trying to discuss anything. What you're trying to do is to deliberately destroy Symbiostock based on a grudge and shallow envy and in total disregard with other people interests and that discredits you as a person and a business person.
There's all that name calling again. ::)
I don't believe in the answers. I have gotten over it. Don't care what people believe. Said that in my posts above already.
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This has been an excellent study in sociology and the gang mentality!
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This shows how mentally disturbed you are.
... You're a psychiatric case with a sociopath personality
@StockPhotosArt - your post totally undermines anything useful you might have to say.
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I am willing to give the new theme at least 10 months, same as SY, to see if it equals or betters the results I got with SY. I will report my findings back, especially if I make two sales, because that will mean it works twice as well as SY. :) If I make 1 sale, it will still prove that the networking feature is irrelevant, because I made the same amount of sales without the networking feature. If I make 0 sales, but I am still selling my images on SS, then my conclusion will be that the competition in the search engines for an individual site is incredible. If my images are still selling on SS, it can't be because my images are crap, can it? Otherwise they wouldnt be selling there, either. And I havent uploaded anything new to SS in probably close to a year and I'm still getting payouts every month.
Cathy, I wish you much success with your new theme, but some of the logic throws me just a little. If you don't like the networking side of Sym, you have the option of disabling it (I did it, it was effective). Then you rely only on the SEO built into WP and/or the theme itself.
I find the argument a little like saying you didn't get sales through Yahoo, so you are blocking them and only appearing on Google. I would think that there's no such thing as having too many links out there if you're trying to sell something online.
Finally, comparing sales of stock photos from different sites is irrelevant and inconclusive for the most part. A site could have 50 premium, high quality shots compared to another with thousands of lower, simple shots while a third may only have different pricing. They will all have different results. If you want to compare "traffic" instead, find a site with similar pictures, inbound and outbound links, quantity of images and design aesthetics and maybe you could draw some conclusions from that. My 2 cents.
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Cathy, I wish you much success with your new theme, but some of the logic throws me just a little. If you don't like the networking side of Sym, you have the option of disabling it (I did it, it was effective). Then you rely only on the SEO built into WP and/or the theme itself.
I find the argument a little like saying you didn't get sales through Yahoo, so you are blocking them and only appearing on Google. I would think that there's no such thing as having too many links out there if you're trying to sell something online.
Finally, comparing sales of stock photos from different sites is irrelevant and inconclusive for the most part. A site could have 50 premium, high quality shots compared to another with thousands of lower, simple shots while a third may only have different pricing. They will all have different results. If you want to compare "traffic" instead, find a site with similar pictures, inbound and outbound links, quantity of images and design aesthetics and maybe you could draw some conclusions from that. My 2 cents.
No worries. If what I have said is meaningless, then it can be ignored. If someone sees some meaning in it, they can use it however they want. :)
Thanks for the good wishes, I wish you success, too.
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Cathy, how many sales do you have with your new theme?
I am guessing none.. if symbiostock is not working, the other solution is less likely to work..
Why am I saying this? Because I had a wordpress store on the same domain from 2009 to 2013.. and symbiostock's first 10-11 months is already better than the 3-4 years I had with that other script.. slightly better money wise, but it is impressive since symbiostock only needed about one year to match my previous 3 something years..
I hope it works better for her, but this is my experience..
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Cathy, how many sales do you have with your new theme?
I am guessing none.. if symbiostock is not working, the other solution is less likely to work..
Why am I saying this? Because I had a wordpress store on the same domain from 2009 to 2013.. and symbiostock's first 10-11 months is already better than the 3-4 years I had with that other script.. slightly better money wise, but it is impressive since symbiostock only needed about one year to match my previous 3 something years..
I hope it works better for her, but this is my experience..
see post #155 above. Only changed about 3 weeks ago. Willing to give it at least 10 months, same as SY. I hope it works better for me, too. But my expectations are very low. If I sell 2 images, I will have doubled my sales over what I did with the SY theme.
Glad it's working better for you. Hopefully with more people building SY sites, you will see an increase in sales.
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Cathy, how many sales do you have with your new theme?
I am guessing none.. if symbiostock is not working, the other solution is less likely to work..
Why am I saying this? Because I had a wordpress store on the same domain from 2009 to 2013.. and symbiostock's first 10-11 months is already better than the 3-4 years I had with that other script.. slightly better money wise, but it is impressive since symbiostock only needed about one year to match my previous 3 something years..
I hope it works better for her, but this is my experience..
see post #155 above. Only changed about 3 weeks ago. Willing to give it at least 10 months, same as SY. I hope it works better for me, too. But my expectations are very low. If I sell 2 images, I will have doubled my sales over what I did with the SY theme.
Glad it's working better for you. Hopefully with more people building SY sites, you will see an increase in sales.
I see..
2 sales will surpass symbiostock but it might be a coincidence since there is not much difference between 1 and 2 sales..
imo you should have continued with symbiostock, but that's your thing to decide..
Again I hope it works out well.. I see you are using photocrati.. that wasn't the one I used, so it is possible your results will be better..
If it helps, I recommend to stay away from google Adwords unless you like burning money.. do not spend money at all.. I tried them all in 4 years and traditional advertising is not working well for stock imaging..
Focusing on SEO is the best thing you can do..
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Doubling zero is still zero. If you get two sales, your new theme is an infinite times better then Symbiostock. How about that.
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Cathy, when in 10 months you dont have any sales, I hope you will also accuse Erick Danzer, Photocrati's founder and CEO of your bad results and make a stink on their forum. http://members.photocrati.com/ (http://members.photocrati.com/)
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I see..
2 sales will surpass symbiostock but it might be a coincidence since there is not much difference between 1 and 2 sales..
imo you should have continued with symbiostock, but that's your thing to decide..
Again I hope it works out well.. I see you are using photocrati.. that wasn't the one I used, so it is possible your results will be better..
If it helps, I recommend to stay away from google Adwords unless you like burning money.. do not spend money at all.. I tried them all in 4 years and traditional advertising is not working well for stock imaging..
Focusing on SEO is the best thing you can do..
Thanks for the tips, cidepix. Adwords...no, not going there. Focusing on SEO...that is my intent. We shall see.
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locked thread and a couple rather insulting posts removed.
It is NOT ok to insult and be nasty.