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Author Topic: Change of Plan - Symbiostock is Independent [updated]  (Read 34011 times)

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Ron

« Reply #125 on: February 11, 2014, 18:06 »
+2
And in the middle of all of this we've just made our first sale.

Someone came to our site from google and after some browsing licensed a image in the small size giving us 4.99usd.

No it's not a fortune but we were found through google and if the image was downloaded from a microstock site we would have won from 1 to 3usd.

I'm not going to convince myself that we'll be able to cut loose the agencies any time soon, if at any time at all but this shows that Symbiostock has the goods to work with cooperation, more members and commitment.


You bolded google. Your sale came from a google search, not an SY search. True you have a SY site but unless you can attribute the sale as coming directly from networking with a SY site, you just as easily could have gotten that sale from using other software.


The pattern of sales i noticed for most people was that 1 or 2 sales came early on, then stopped. Notice i said most. Not all.  :)


I would love to see real, verifiable data that could predict trends, etc. for sales, but i understand that takes work. Seems like something could have been accomplished in that regard over the past 10 months. That would be the biggest endorsement for the success of SY. And so that opens a door for one of you all to say why didnt i do it? The answer is because i dont have access to those figures. Since leo has stated on several occasions something like, "well, the people that are selling dont want to come forward for fear of being ripped, but i can tell you that some people are selling on a regular, daily basis." No, not his exact words, but the same drift.


Not exactly useful data for anyone trying to decide if its worth it.


The sale i made did not come from a search of the network, but from google also. My inclination was to skip the networking, get rid of the theme hassles Like Ember Mike mentioned, and just keep it simpler. I think catering to what google wants to see is a better way to go. (As much as i hate that thought, too.)
No. Symbiostock is coded to have a good SEO footprint. Other WP sites might not have a good SEO and then images wont be found. Thats where Symbiostock is strong, the SEO is good. Your new WP plugin might have buried your images because of poor SEO. Not saying it is, it might. The fact that people find his site through google says it all.


« Reply #126 on: February 11, 2014, 18:31 »
-2
No. Symbiostock is coded to have a good SEO footprint. Other WP sites might not have a good SEO and then images wont be found. Thats where Symbiostock is strong, the SEO is good. Your new WP plugin might have buried your images because of poor SEO. Not saying it is, it might. The fact that people find his site through google says it all.

I am using Yoast SEO plugin, just like on SY. My images are already being indexed by google, just like on SY. My images aren't buried, they are getting found. I do check searches all the time from other computers besides my own. So far, I don't see that as an issue. My issue is I don't have more hours in the day to get new images up and the rest of the images I already have shot up!


PaulieWalnuts

  • We Have Exciting News For You
« Reply #127 on: February 11, 2014, 18:33 »
+6
I'm probably going to regret jumping in here to try and help but...

I've seen some comments of no sales. Direct sales are difficult no matter what the system is. Google likes Wordpress so Symbiostock has that benefit by default. You need to have the right technology, content, and sellable images to get traffic and sales. If you're missing any or all of those then your chances decrease.

About the content, I checked out a few sites and they have stuff like Abe Lincoln Photography as page and gallery titles. That kind of stuff will only help people find you by name. Which I'm guessing nobody is looking for your name. If you want sales/traffic it may be a good idea to learn SEO. And I don't mean tricks to game Google. Producing good relevant optimized content so more of the right users can find you. From what I remember Photoshelter's SEO guide and some of their other guides are decent primers. Just sayin.

Ron

« Reply #128 on: February 11, 2014, 18:37 »
+2
No. Symbiostock is coded to have a good SEO footprint. Other WP sites might not have a good SEO and then images wont be found. Thats where Symbiostock is strong, the SEO is good. Your new WP plugin might have buried your images because of poor SEO. Not saying it is, it might. The fact that people find his site through google says it all.

I am using Yoast SEO plugin, just like on SY. My images are already being indexed by google, just like on SY. My images aren't buried, they are getting found. I do check searches all the time from other computers besides my own. So far, I don't see that as an issue. My issue is I don't have more hours in the day to get new images up and the rest of the images I already have shot up!
Ugh.  Yoast plugin has nothing to do with the coding of the theme. The symbiostock site is strong in SEO on its own. It seems no one can explain the benefits to you, so I call it quits too.

« Reply #129 on: February 11, 2014, 18:47 »
-2
No. Symbiostock is coded to have a good SEO footprint. Other WP sites might not have a good SEO and then images wont be found. Thats where Symbiostock is strong, the SEO is good. Your new WP plugin might have buried your images because of poor SEO. Not saying it is, it might. The fact that people find his site through google says it all.

I am using Yoast SEO plugin, just like on SY. My images are already being indexed by google, just like on SY. My images aren't buried, they are getting found. I do check searches all the time from other computers besides my own. So far, I don't see that as an issue. My issue is I don't have more hours in the day to get new images up and the rest of the images I already have shot up!
Ugh.  Yoast plugin has nothing to do with the coding of the theme. The symbiostock site is strong in SEO on its own. It seems no one can explain the benefits to you, so I call it quits too.

OK. But I don't believe there is any better coding in the SY theme than there is other software. If it were that strong, wouldn't more people be doing better? And by people I mean people with way better ports and way larger ports than mine. I haven't seen any reports of that happening. No one wants to talk. Even anonymously. There is no proof, we are asked to just "believe".

I just did an incognito search for one of my images in google and it is in the third row. Some images fair better, some fair worse, depending on the category. I am ok with that. Mind you, I don't even have 200 images up yet. And its only been about 3 weeks.

The best proof to make people believe in the benefits of SY is to see sales results. Without that, I certainly can't believe in the benefits anymore. I did, at one time. When another year has gone by and most everyone in the network is selling multiple images on a daily benefit, I might believe again.

Thanks for the reminder about the Photoshelter SEO guide, PaulieWalnuts. I need to go back and reread that.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2014, 18:53 by cathyslife stockphotos.com »

PaulieWalnuts

  • We Have Exciting News For You
« Reply #130 on: February 11, 2014, 18:53 »
+4
No. Symbiostock is coded to have a good SEO footprint. Other WP sites might not have a good SEO and then images wont be found. Thats where Symbiostock is strong, the SEO is good. Your new WP plugin might have buried your images because of poor SEO. Not saying it is, it might. The fact that people find his site through google says it all.

I am using Yoast SEO plugin, just like on SY. My images are already being indexed by google, just like on SY. My images aren't buried, they are getting found. I do check searches all the time from other computers besides my own. So far, I don't see that as an issue. My issue is I don't have more hours in the day to get new images up and the rest of the images I already have shot up!

Cathy, I just want to point out an example of something that could use some tweaking. Hopefully this helps.

On your animals collection your page title is "cathyslifestockphotos.comAnimals Archives - cathyslifestockphotos.com". Search engines use this to index your pages. It may be better to have something like "Stock Photos of Animals and Pictures of Horses | Cathy's Photography"

The title on your Horse with Halter page is exactly that. Horse with Halter. You could probably add another nine words to that or use a auto-suffix like "Stock Photos and Animal Pictures" so the title becomes "Horse with Halter | Stock Photos and Animal Pictures".

More relevant content = more traffic.

Just trying to help.


« Reply #131 on: February 11, 2014, 19:09 »
0
If everyone in the past had approached new ideas the way bunhill does we'd still sit starving in cold caves pondering the legal implications of starting a fire and hunting one of those tasty mammoths out there  ;D

Look at it like this: If the Symbiostock Network is not an organisation then what is it ?

IMO there are aspects of Symbiostock which make it potentially an entity in itself. Or else what is the Symbiostock Network ? If it is an entity then it has potential legal responsibilities. And it is being advertised as that. Symbiostock is an organisation without an organisation.

An organisation does not have to "ponder legal implications'. You pay a legal team to do that for you. They draw up the contracts and check the wording you use. Your accountants look at the financial side - both from your perspective and from the customers'. That's what you have to do in business.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2014, 19:22 by bunhill »

« Reply #132 on: February 11, 2014, 19:23 »
-1
No. Symbiostock is coded to have a good SEO footprint. Other WP sites might not have a good SEO and then images wont be found. Thats where Symbiostock is strong, the SEO is good. Your new WP plugin might have buried your images because of poor SEO. Not saying it is, it might. The fact that people find his site through google says it all.

I am using Yoast SEO plugin, just like on SY. My images are already being indexed by google, just like on SY. My images aren't buried, they are getting found. I do check searches all the time from other computers besides my own. So far, I don't see that as an issue. My issue is I don't have more hours in the day to get new images up and the rest of the images I already have shot up!

Cathy, I just want to point out an example of something that could use some tweaking. Hopefully this helps.

On your animals collection your page title is "cathyslifestockphotos.comAnimals Archives - cathyslifestockphotos.com". Search engines use this to index your pages. It may be better to have something like "Stock Photos of Animals and Pictures of Horses | Cathy's Photography"

The title on your Horse with Halter page is exactly that. Horse with Halter. You could probably add another nine words to that or use a auto-suffix like "Stock Photos and Animal Pictures" so the title becomes "Horse with Halter | Stock Photos and Animal Pictures".

More relevant content = more traffic.

Just trying to help.


 Thanks for the tip Paulie. I will check those out.


Edit: great tip. Just changed a couple. Thanks again!
« Last Edit: February 11, 2014, 19:31 by cathyslife stockphotos.com »

PaulieWalnuts

  • We Have Exciting News For You
« Reply #133 on: February 11, 2014, 19:42 »
+1
Those are just examples so you may want to do a bit of research on what keywords and phrases to use. Google has a keyword planner tool that tells you what keywords and phases people use and the amount they're searched for.

So as an example, maybe Animal Stock Photos is searched for 1,000 times per month but Horse Stock Photos is searched for 5,000 times per month. Both are relevant but the horse version gets searched for more often and may be better to use in your content.

https://adwords.google.com/ko/KeywordPlanner

EDIT: And if you want to see the content Google is looking for, simply do a search. Google puts search words in bold so you can see it's looking for the search words and phrases in the title, description, overall page content, and URL. If you optimize all that content you should (hopefully) get better results.

« Last Edit: February 11, 2014, 19:46 by PaulieWalnuts »

« Reply #134 on: February 11, 2014, 19:47 »
+2

Look at it like this: If the Symbiostock Network is not an organisation then what is it ?


Join the network and find the answer, Bunhill

IMO there are aspects of Symbiostock which make it potentially an entity in itself. Or else what is the Symbiostock Network ? If it is an entity then it has potential legal responsibilities. And it is being advertised as that. Symbiostock is an organisation without an organisation.

An organisation does not have to "ponder legal implications'. You pay a legal team to do that for you. They draw up the contracts and check the wording you use. Your accountants look at the financial side - both from your perspective and from the customers'. That's what you have to do in business.

My point still stands: You can't do any new business at all if you want to be legally absolutely safe. There's a thing called "good faith", however. Acting in "good faith", of course, is no bullet-proof legal protection and won't convince paranoids.

farbled

« Reply #135 on: February 11, 2014, 19:51 »
+2
Look at it like this: If the Symbiostock Network is not an organisation then what is it ?

IMO there are aspects of Symbiostock which make it potentially an entity in itself. Or else what is the Symbiostock Network ? If it is an entity then it has potential legal responsibilities. And it is being advertised as that. Symbiostock is an organisation without an organisation.

An organisation does not have to "ponder legal implications'. You pay a legal team to do that for you. They draw up the contracts and check the wording you use. Your accountants look at the financial side - both from your perspective and from the customers'. That's what you have to do in business.

I do understand where you're going with this, but the implication is that the "network" entity will start generating income in itself. And the only way I see it doing that is by charging a commission to the members. If/when that happens, I suspect many like me will opt out and simply use the platform as a standalone site, or as a closed network with other similar or complimentary sites.

I prefer to think of it like a farmer's market. I'm not responsible for anyone else's successes, failures, quality or prices, we just happen to be listed in the same places.

steheap

  • Author of best selling "Get Started in Stock"

« Reply #136 on: February 11, 2014, 21:22 »
+10
Wow - first time back to the forum for a while and I see this!!

I've been a happy Symbio photography user from the beginning. I've sold:

3 @ $20
6 @ $3
2 @ $1

Did I make a profit taking hosting into account - no. Am I happy with progress on sales - could be better. Will I stick with it as I add the rest of my portfolio - hell, yes.

Steve

« Reply #137 on: February 12, 2014, 02:24 »
+2
Wow - first time back to the forum for a while and I see this!!

I've been a happy Symbio photography user from the beginning. I've sold:

3 @ $20
6 @ $3
2 @ $1

Did I make a profit taking hosting into account - no. Am I happy with progress on sales - could be better. Will I stick with it as I add the rest of my portfolio - hell, yes.

Steve


Thanks for sharing Steve.  If you haven't already added your stats to the poll over at Symbiostock.org please consider doing so.  The poll is ongoing and allows changes so you can revise your vote if subsequent sales have moved you up a level.

« Reply #138 on: February 12, 2014, 06:03 »
-10
Were the sales direct results of the networking in SY or did the buyers come from a google search? If they cant be directly attributed to the networking of SY, then you may have gotten them using any software.

steheap

  • Author of best selling "Get Started in Stock"

« Reply #139 on: February 12, 2014, 09:58 »
+4
Hi Cathy

Hard to say. I did some research from the last set of sales (1 person bought 3 images of Washington DC). I can see incoming visitors from both Google and Symbiostock.info, I can see a search from the home page for Washington DC, but I can't piece the flow together. I am sure it is probably possible to do that, but it would take some time. I don't see any incoming search terms from Google that have anything to do with Washington.

At the end of the day, I take the incoming links from wherever they come. I try to boost my web presence via my own blog, via Fine Art America, via this site, via Symbiostock, and people find me in one way or another. A couple of my purchases have been from people seeing an image on another site somewhere and emailing me. I see all that as positive and if this buyer happened to find Symbiostock.info and came that way, it is fine, if they came in another way, that is fine. I'm happy to have as broad a reach as I can.

Steve

« Reply #140 on: February 12, 2014, 11:18 »
0
Hi Cathy

Hard to say. I did some research from the last set of sales (1 person bought 3 images of Washington DC). I can see incoming visitors from both Google and Symbiostock.info, I can see a search from the home page for Washington DC, but I can't piece the flow together. I am sure it is probably possible to do that, but it would take some time. I don't see any incoming search terms from Google that have anything to do with Washington.

At the end of the day, I take the incoming links from wherever they come. I try to boost my web presence via my own blog, via Fine Art America, via this site, via Symbiostock, and people find me in one way or another. A couple of my purchases have been from people seeing an image on another site somewhere and emailing me. I see all that as positive and if this buyer happened to find Symbiostock.info and came that way, it is fine, if they came in another way, that is fine. I'm happy to have as broad a reach as I can.

Steve


I understand Steve. Congrats on the sales!


From an analytical standpoint, it is always good to know what works and what doesnt, For instance, if i place $100 worth of adwords and cannot directly attribute sales to that money, its pointless to keep investing in it. I would be better off trying something else. Just my personal opinion, tho.




steheap

  • Author of best selling "Get Started in Stock"

« Reply #141 on: February 12, 2014, 11:24 »
+1
Quote
From an analytical standpoint, it is always good to know what works and what doesnt, For instance, if i place $100 worth of adwords and cannot directly attribute sales to that money, its pointless to keep investing in it. I would be better off trying something else. Just my personal opinion, tho.

I agree - I did some paid adwords when I first started my stock blog. Not sure it ever did much good! I've concluded that the chance of someone who wants to buy an image seeing the right words in an adword is almost negligible - hence my focus now on getting my name, websites and images around.

Steve

« Reply #142 on: February 12, 2014, 12:02 »
0
Quote
From an analytical standpoint, it is always good to know what works and what doesnt, For instance, if i place $100 worth of adwords and cannot directly attribute sales to that money, its pointless to keep investing in it. I would be better off trying something else. Just my personal opinion, tho.

I agree - I did some paid adwords when I first started my stock blog. Not sure it ever did much good! I've concluded that the chance of someone who wants to buy an image seeing the right words in an adword is almost negligible - hence my focus now on getting my name, websites and images around.

Steve


Yeah, i suppose adwords does well for some businesses and not much for others.

« Reply #143 on: February 12, 2014, 12:15 »
+4
[size=78%]Other reasons for doing this besides making money: [/size]
online backup of all your stock photos, no more worrying about losing/corrupting a hard drive
non-agency portfolio to show prospective customers, agencies, etc
never having to worry about "Orphan works" since you have easily found images with proper copyright


...... If the networking is superfluous unless you can take advantage of multiple sites and cross-linking, what is the point of all the extra code?

that's YOUR opinion, and not born out by FACTS   -- networking doesn't require multiple sites (as has been explained to you at least 42 times now)

« Reply #144 on: February 12, 2014, 12:19 »
+2
Too bad when an anonymous poll was put up on the SY forum (its probably gone by now because anything negative gets deleted) only 42 people responded and the majority of the respondents of that poll only had one or two sales so far.


FYI, the poll is still available @ http://www.symbiostock.org/community/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=973


yep - unfortunately she doesn't bother to factcheck before posting;  the poll is not unlike the polls here where only  a few report their sales, compared to the total number of members. 

« Reply #145 on: February 12, 2014, 12:26 »
+4
If you stop answering her she will go away!

« Reply #146 on: February 12, 2014, 12:38 »
+6
If you stop answering her she will go away!

perhaps, but unless someone refutes the imaginary statistics and outright lies and distortions, many other readers will think those problems are real.   eg, there are over 170 sym sites now -- how many of these people are posting negative messages here or in the sym forums?

Ron

« Reply #147 on: February 12, 2014, 12:41 »
+3
If you stop answering her she will go away!

perhaps, but unless someone refutes the imaginary statistics and outright lies and distortions, many other readers will think those problems are real.   eg, there are over 170 sym sites now -- how many of these people are posting negative messages here or in the sym forums?
There are a lot of smart people and semi developers starting up and running sites. If they had found a pyramid scheme or something amiss with the code or networking, they would have said something about it. There is 1 person accusing Symbiostock of being a pyramid scheme, there are 170 odd other people with a different experience.

« Reply #148 on: February 12, 2014, 13:46 »
-5
There are also many people who don't post their reservations for fear of getting the same treatment you are giving me.  :) It's ok, I don't care, I'll take the hit. I think people should hear all sides of a story, not just the rosy, whitewashed side.

Go check the SY forum. Other people have posted their own doubts about the effectiveness of SY, even you Ron. From this thread:
http://www.symbiostock.org/community/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=973&start=15

Quote
I have 8 sales, I had between 1-3 sales per month but the last sale was Wed 18/12/2013 so  I feel a little discouraged. Anyhoo, nothing I can do about it.


You are using the words pyramid scheme, not me. There are most definitely a few people in the SY network that are benefitting much more than the majority. Those who have multiple sites with forums, and contact sheet pages and all the other SEO tricks up their sleeve are going to do WAY better than the average person signing up for a site to sell their photos. That's just an SEO fact. Links in, links out = good. That's not a pyramid scheme.

Even when the conversation starts to shift back towards friendly, intelligent, reasonable talk in this thread, some of you are just going to continue on with the garbage. And you are calling me a troll.  :)

Quote
If you stop answering her she will go away!

perhaps, but unless someone refutes the imaginary statistics and outright lies and distortions, many other readers will think those problems are real.   eg, there are over 170 sym sites now -- how many of these people are posting negative messages here or in the sym forums?


No one has to believe me. I don't want anyone to. They can read for themselves the problems, lack of sales, and Leo's constant declaration of quitting the project...they can read here, they can read on the SY forum. I havent posted there in ages, so you can't blame me for what's going on there. In fact, one of Leos latest threats had nothing to do with me, but with some of you. I suggest that any lack of confidence in this project has more to do with that than it does with anything I say. You guys said it, I am just one out of 170. But even though I supported the project for almost 10 months, you are discounting my opinion now just because it doesnt agree with yours.

Maybe people think the problems are real because they really are. Not just because this liar and distorter and ignorant person is saying so.  :) People are actually smart enough to read and research for themselves and come to their own conclusions.

« Reply #149 on: February 12, 2014, 13:57 »
+8
"People are actually smart enough to read and research for themselves and come to their own conclusions."

I certainly hope so! There is some really great information in this thread and some really misleading things too. Everyone who is reading this thread please take some time to find out the whole picture.


 

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